Habits and Hustle - Episode 454: Group Fitness Reality Check: Why F45 and Barry's Bootcamp Might Be Sabotaging Your Goals

Episode Date: May 30, 2025

Is group fitness helping or hurting your body composition goals? In this Fitness Friday episode on the Habits and Hustle podcast, Liron and I dive into the controversial world of group fitness classes like Orange Theory, Barry's Bootcamp, and F45. We discuss why these high-intensity classes can spike your appetite, burn out your adrenals, and leave you injured—plus what's actually working in the group fitness space. We also explore the rise of Hyrox as a better alternative to CrossFit, why Pilates shouldn't be your only workout, and the social benefits that keep people coming back despite the drawbacks. Liron Kayvan founded BFLA in 2019. He’s a NASM Certified Group Fitness Instructor, Personal Trainer, and Transformative Life Coach. Liron has competed in Amateur MMA, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, and Rugby and has been a Fitness Coach for over 10 years. What we discuss: The rise and reality of group fitness popularity Why Barry's Bootcamp can spike cortisol and appetite The "aimless running around" problem in most classes Hyrox vs. CrossFit: A safer group fitness alternative Why Pilates alone won't change your body composition The social benefits that make group fitness worthwhile When group fitness works vs. when it backfires The importance of having specific fitness goals Why "something is better than nothing" still applies How to choose group fitness that actually serves your goals Thank you to our sponsor: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers.  Bio.me: Link to daily prebiotic fiber here, code Jennifer20 for 20% off.  David: Buy 4, get the 5th free at davidprotein.com/habitsandhustle. Find more about Liron Kayvan:  Website: https://www.beyondfitnessla.com/  Instagram: @beyondfitnessla Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it! Hey friends, you're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle podcast where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know how you leveled up. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentous. When your goal is healthspan, living better and longer, there are very few non-negotiables.

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We disband her back and forth and we pick a fitness topic. I'm always remiss to say this, but I really love feedback. I love comments. I love knowing what you guys want to have more of, less of. It really helps with the podcast. It really helps kind of guide who we have on the show, what we actually talk about. So please, any feedback is good feedback.

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chart. So please, please, please, I beg you guys, if you haven't hit that button, please do so. All right. Without further ado. Without further ado. Here we are. Okay.

Leron, um, you know what I want to talk about today? What? The idea and group fitness overall, right? Here we are. Okay, Lerun, you know what I want to talk about today? What? The idea and group fitness overall, right? Cause you know, the F45s, the orange theory, the Barry's bootcamp, because there is some controversy around if it's effective or not, especially when you're in like in middle age, right?

Um, for your hormones and all sorts of different things. The reason why I want wanna bring it up also is because I remember back when, not even that long ago, that was like the thing to do, right? Everybody wanted to do Barry's Bootcamp. If you went to Barry's Bootcamp, it was like the hardest workout in the world. You feel like you're sweating, it's like super difficult.

You feel like you've done so much. But I actually, and you're sweating, it's like super difficult. You feel like you've done so much. But I actually, and you're going to hate me because I know, because Leroyne actually owns a group fitness gym, which is kind of ironic. We do a lot of things, but group fitness is a big part of it. Yeah, you do a lot of things, but group fitness is a big part of what you do. I want to know, and the first question I have, have you seen an incline or a decline in popularity with group fitness? I think an incline and I think it will continue.

Really? Yeah. I mean, I think it's great for the social aspect, the community aspect, but now this may be controversial, but I'm not necessarily sure that if you really want to like change your body composition and get next level fit, it's the greatest like mode of exercise. And I'll tell you why. I think because it's a lot of like running around aimlessly and you're not really doing heavy weight, you're kind of doing this, you know, you're kind of just like a lot of times it goes so fast, you're

just trying to keep up. And it's a lot of cardio at the end of the day even when because they're the whole goal is to like make to kill somebody basically and What I've had a lot of happened to me was I had a lot of injuries and I had My appetite went like through the roof after that class So I ended up eating double or triple the amount that I would have otherwise Had if I just kind of did more of a moderate workout or just did strength training and a walk. Go ahead. So I agree with both of the things you said.

One that group fitness is good for the social aspect and two that a lot of group fitness is kind of aimlessly running around like a blue blue arse fly as we say in London. What do you say? A blue arse fly. I don't know where it comes from, it's a stupid phrase but it works. For you maybe, not for me, I wouldn't get away with it, but okay. Your accent, you can get away with anything. And I do, I do.

Yeah, so there is a lot of aimless running around in group fitness. So the thing I would point out is that the form of the group fitness is flexible, but the idea of group fitness, meaning people coming together for a shared goal is awesome. And the form of it can be awesome and it can be crap. True. Okay, so I should have had that. I should have made that caveat, right? The idea of group fitness as a whole for the social aspect. Right. Great. Big picture.

Big picture. And by the way, now you know, like people are now doing that, like they're kind of doing these like more fitness, running clubs. Instead of going to meet at a bar, people are doing dates by doing... You heard coffee and chill. Coffee and chill, right? And just in terms of like all those things, I think for that aspect, it's amazing. But I'm talking about if you are somebody who has a particular fitness goal that you want to achieve, I don't think it's the best mode to get there. But if you're somebody who doesn't do anything

and you, this is now, you've now, now you're doing something, you're like, now you're being active, it's amazing. Two different things though, altogether. Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's definitely downsides to group fitness because a lot of times you're losing quality for quantity. So unless you have a very skilled instructor or you're tailoring the

workout very with great expertise, you get something very general. So you get like, I don't actually know about Barry's or in theory, I don't know much. I don't know. I'm not that interested in it, to be honest. Like I get, I have basically have the same feeling you have not to hate on them. It works for a lot of people and a lot of people love it, especially Barry's. I know people who love Barry's. So it works for them, but I don't know specifically what I, what they do.

I'll tell you what they do. Let me tell you what Barry's Bootcamp does. They make you run at an ungodly pace that is almost impossible. And then they say, now just put an incline at 15. And so now you're running so fast where like the fat, like if you're not gonna sprain an ankle or like bust your knee in the process, you are very lucky. And then they go back and forth

between doing a lower body strength training and then going back on the treadmill or upper body strength training, or they have the core days. But what I find is that it burns your adrenal glands, number one. You can't be doing that every single day. And like I said, like you're like dead at the end and you feel good because I personally, I love that feeling. But like I said, it was counterproductive because I was so hungry. I was starving after doing those classes. I would eat anything and everything in sight, which then, like I said, it's counterproductive.

Counterproductive. It's very, very common. I've heard that many times to do with cortisol and stress. Yes, because that's exactly it. If you're doing that once in a while, it's great. But to do that on a regular basis, and then you feel like guilted if you're not being, if you're not able to run at like 12 miles an hour at a 15 incline because the other person is. So I found it to be like, you know, like I just found it, like that's what I did when I was in my twenties and my thirties. But then like I had to like back off a little bit from that.

But anyway, that's what, that's what it is. PE class, I call it. Do you have PE classes? Yeah, you mean like phys ed? Phys ed, yeah. Of course, but you're not doing Barry's bootcamp in like your shot in the phys ed class. This is what I'm saying is like, it's kind of untargeted.

There's a little bit of a sadist kind of vibe to a lot of these group fitness. Again, don't know specific. Yes, okay, that's true. It's like, just punish yourself. And then the coach, like people get off on it and It's this weird S and M thing, you know, where the coach is like, you, can I swear? Yes, you can swear. Yes, you know, like whatever.

I'm not going to now, but like you, whatever it is. Basically the vibe, whether they say it with their words or not is that you're like some lowly, you know. You're not good enough. You're not good enough. And then people get off on it in the, like I've seen it, there's a, I know a lot of people who go to a specific gym

who really that's the core foundation of culture. Really? Is this S&M thing where the guy- Where is it? I'm not gonna name names. Tell me. I'm not gonna name this part. Is it in LA?

No, I don't know. It's in LA, it's kind of West Hollywood-ish Beverly Hills. And they get off on like, just like... And there's a cult around it and it's this weird... Are they just shaming somebody? Yeah. And they get, they love it. And to be fair, it works while they're doing it, but long-term it doesn't.

Tell me, I want to know where. I'll tell you. I'm not going to quote people out loud. I want everyone to know. I'm curious. It's not my style. It's not my style. But anyway, either way, what happens is in those classes, it's very untargeted.

It's very not a long-term thing, as you were saying, right? It's not a healthy long-term approach. It works while you're doing it. As soon as those people stop, they're usually fatter than they were, just unhealthier than they were. They've lost muscle. A lot of women lose periods. And I'm talking about maybe the extreme cases

because it goes with this, it's basically like a form of sort of, like anorexia, bulimia. It's all very negative. You know what I'm saying? Well, you know, like I never understood, I'm gonna tell you, the one that I never understood was spin classes,

like soul cycle. I never, I mean, besides the community aspect that I think that people love. But that's huge though, Jen. Like that is, you separate the positive and the negative and you take, you don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. So the aspect with Barry's I've heard that the big thing, the big draw of Barry's is not the actual workout itself, it's the culture around it. So it's like the hot people and it's like a scene and it's a sexy place and everyone feels

sexy when they go there or they see other sexy people and they want to be, you know what I'm saying? So that is the emotional driver for people in everything, in everything. And fitness is absolutely number one for that. So it's motivating people to work out. So it is positive, but I think it's important to separate what people actually, what's productive about it and what is not productive. It could be improved. Well, this is the thing. Have you heard of high rocks? It's like the new hottest thing.

I've heard of it again. I don't explain what it is. I don't want to. To me, I like the concept of that because it's basically, I haven't done it. I want to do it. It's a hybrid. It's kind of like, it's kind of taken over the, you know how CrossFit was massive. I was going to mention CrossFit and like the thing with CrossFit was people get, it's community, but people would get injured a lot. Oh, well that's what I was going to say.

So the thing about all group fitness, right? Like when something takes off, it basically becomes, like you said, it becomes like the culture, it becomes a, it becomes like the culture, it's the socialization, it's the building of a community, all that, right? So CrossFit had its moment. CrossFit is still, I'm sure, popular with some people, but now, like, Hi-Rox, is that what it's called even? Yeah. It's having its moment big time. Like, I see it everywhere. A lot of my friends are doing it all the time. People I never even thought would even actually like partake in. What's it composed of?

In fitness like that. And well, it's a very much like what I like about it. It's hardcore, but it involves, it's kind of like rowing, like, look it up. Hold on a minute. I'll show you. I'm going to tell you very specifically what it is. It basically is a fitness competition that combines endurance and strength. It consists of eight rounds of one kilometer runs followed by eight different function fitness stations, such as sled pushes, burpees, broad jumps, farmer carries, and the goal is to compete in the race as quickly as possible. So the whole purpose of it, like it's gamified basically.

So like they gamified this whole thing, but it's doing things that, that's why I prefer this type of high rocks versus like a crossfit, because it's things that I think more of the general population can do if you train for it. Like if you train well, then you can get better at pushing a sled. If you train well, you can do if you train for it. Like if you train well, then you can get better at pushing a sled.

If you train well, you can do burpees. If you train, you know, you can run a mile, right? Crossfit I found had more dangerous moves like power lifts. Olympic lifting and stuff. Yeah, like Olympic lifting and like things that like the average Joe will actually really hurt themselves. Especially in a class of 10, 20 people in a state of fatigue too. So that was the biggest thing is you need to be really dialed in for something like

that. And because it's a group fitness atmosphere, this is the downside. People would be tired. There'd be 20 people in a class. The coach has not like, doesn't know who's doing what. And it's a recipe for disaster. So it sounds like high rocks has kind of fixed that issue. Yeah. Like the highs has been really good. So this is what it really incorporates, running, functional training,

and basically the race format, right? Like who can finish first? And like I said, that is building a real community for people and it's like the hot thing to do. And so I'm actually gonna be doing one. I'm not sure where, cause they do it in different cities and it's a whole thing. But to. And so I'm actually gonna be doing one, I'm not sure where, cause they do it in different cities and it's a whole thing.

But to me, and because you're not doing that all the time, what I love about it, it's also a goal that you can work towards, right? So like, if you wanna get stronger, if you wanna improve your endurance, then, you know, here's a great goal, now train for it. Versus going to a lot of these other group classes that really there's

no real goal. It's just like, yes, it's a great community and make someone work out. But it's just like, can you kill yourself today? Can you push yourself? Great. You did it. Okay.

Now go home. Like that to me, you know, and I think with women, especially as we get older, especially in our forties with hormone, like all the hormone issues we have, I don't think it's great as a, I don't really love that, like the orange theories. My friend's going to kill me because he owns a bunch of them, but let's just say F45s are all those things. I don't think it's the greatest use of time if you're trying to really kind of build muscle, get stronger and get fitter. You never want to trade your long-term health

for like a short-term aesthetic. Like, it's not a good trade. Yeah, you get skinnier or whatever in the short-term, but then you've lost all your muscle or you just like really burn out or your metabolism is down on the floor. Long-term, it's gonna come back and it's gonna come back with a vengeance.

So I think people need to maintain their long-term vision of what they want for their body and don't sacrifice the short-term for the long-term. Right. And I will also just say, besides have a goal in place, again, if you are not doing something, this is a great aspect of community building. If it motivates you to work out, I think it's great. If you have a specific

fitness goal in mind, you may want to do something in addition to it. But that's basically all. So again, you guys should try something like that where you have a goal and you can sign up with a bunch of friends, which I think is a great other social element. And yeah, if you're in LA, you should also go check out Leveron's classes. You do boxing classes, right? We do hybrid. So we do boxing, we do a little bit of like our twist on Pilates, we do a bunch of weightlifting, but the flagship, like the main thing that everyone loves is the combination of weightlifting and boxing.

So you're getting two very different systems. You're getting muscle building, you're getting fat burning, you're getting power and you're getting metabolic conditioning. So you're really training to be very well rounded. Right. That's good. That's good. One other thing I want to bring up was Pilates.

Pilates is the number one workout. That's why we have our twist on it. Oh yeah. Pilates is the number one workout like of 2025. Everyone like Pilates is like on a huge- It's been around a while too. It's been around forever. I love that.

I respect that. But it's become like, it's become like the workout of the, of the year. Yeah. My opinion, if anyone cares to know- I think, I think they do. It's your show. I don't know. I would say if my opinion is, I think it's a great additive to something else you're doing. I don't think Pilates takes the, like it doesn't take the place of strength training. Or endurance. Or endurance training. It's great if you want to strengthen your core,

but I think if the misconception is if you do Pilates, you're going to have like an elongated dancer's body because you see, like you see these images of like these like beautiful ballerina type bodies, like these lean, tall girls going by the droves to Pilates. And that's just not realistic. Unless that's their genetic type.

Okay. But if I just don't think that Pilates is going to move the needle that's just not realistic. I mean, unless that's their genetic type, okay. But if I just don't think that Pilates is going to move the needle that much for you. So I think, you know, I think that if you want to do Pilates, all the power to you. But if you really want to change- Shouldn't be your only workout. It should not be your only workout. In general, I think this is a theme that both of us like harp on quite a lot is you do want to have more than one type of training.

Like you do want to be well-rounded. I think that's really important. Like my protocol always like my training protocol always has an element of, even though I say, I don't like cardio because when I'm talking about cardio, I'm talking about like walking and running on a treadmill, but I play soccer every single week, I box every single week. My heart rate is going up to one AE plus every single, like numerous times a week. I box every single week. My heart rate is going up to 1 AE plus every single, like numerous times a week. So being a well-rounded, well-balanced athlete,

or just person in general, is super crucial. And I think a good group fitness gym will try at least to check those boxes or admit that they only do one thing and that somebody should be training someone. By the way, most gyms aren't doing what you do. I think people are doing a lot of these one-offs. They'll go somewhere for Pilates. They'll go to one place for Pilates. Class passes. By the way, not even class pass anymore.

Just like, hey, you know what? I like this place for Pilates. I'll go there. I'll go to a main gym to do my strength training and my cardio. I'll go to a boxing gym to do my boxing. Like they, it's very fragmented now, which is fine. But I guess my point is there's two different points. My point is if you really want to change your body in a real way, then maybe, you know, do Pilates in addition to something else like strength training.

But the other thing is, again, the other component is if you just want to move and that's the only thing you like, then something is better than nothing. And like that social element again, but I just think that, like I said, everything has it's like 15 minutes of glory and fame. And I think Pilates is like having it right now. But it's been around a long time. It has, but like, I'm telling you now. It really taps into a niche though.

It's very much a woman's- A female thing. Thing. It has no eccentric component, I think. It's very little eccentric. Actually, there are guys, a lot of- It started by a guy, pretty hardcore dude, Mr. Pilates. He was a hardcore German guy.

Really? Boxer, weightlifter, like serious, serious guy. Well, I see a lot sometimes the professional athlete guys I know, they go to Pilates on their like active recovery days or like their off days just to kind of like do other things, just for like stretching. Band work, activation, you know, hip flexes. Yeah, but some of these classes could be very challenging in these intricate muscles that you just don't ever, ever work. Again, I have nothing against Pilates. I just don't think it should be your BLN doll. And with that, I think we should wrap this group fitness and then move on to next topics. But tell us, what is your favorite group fitness class?

Have you guys tried high rocks? Because like I said, I'm very curious and I'm going to try it very soon. And tell us what you think. Do you agree? Do you disagree? Always comments feedback so important. Thanks, Leroy for being here. You're welcome.