Habits and Hustle - Episode 469: Tamsen Fadal: Breaking the Menopause Silence (100+ Symptoms Your Doctor Never Mentioned)

Episode Date: July 22, 2025

What if everything you know about menopause is wrong? Former TV journalist Tamsen Fadal joins me on the Habits and Hustle podcast to share how a live television hot flash changed her life and sparked a global conversation about the menopause transition that affects 1 billion women worldwide. We discuss the surprising 100+ symptoms of menopause and why doctors aren't educated about this life stage. We also dive into dating and marriage during menopause, the workplace challenges women face, and why strength training beats cardio for women over 40. Tamsen Fadal is the New York Times bestselling author of "How to Menopause." After experiencing a severe hot flash on live television in 2019, she left her 30-year journalism career to educate women about perimenopause and menopause. Her documentary has been seen in 450+ cities across 40+ countries, and she's become one of the leading voices in women's midlife health. What We Discuss:  (04:29) The 100+ Symptoms Nobody Talks About  (07:49) Perimenopause vs. Menopause Explained (09:02) The Live TV Hot Flash That Changed Everything  (12:28) Why There's So Much Shame Around Aging  (16:04) Why Doctors Aren't Educated About Menopause  (19:28) The Truth About Hormone Replacement Therapy  (25:03) Workplace Policies and Benefits for Menopause  (36:59) Dating and Relationships During Menopause  (42:22) Her Personal Menopause Journey and Routine  (46:01) Why Cardio Isn't King for Women Over 40  (48:56) Eating Disorders and Body Image in Midlife  (51:35) Finding Love Again After Divorce …and more! Thank you to our sponsors: Momentous: Shop this link and use code Jen for 20% off Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Bio.me: Link to daily prebiotic fiber here, code Jennifer20 for 20% off.  David: Buy 4, get the 5th free at davidprotein.com/habitsandhustle.   Find more from Jen:  Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen   Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Tamsen Fadal: Website: https://www.tamsenfadal.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tamsenfadal/?hl=en  Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tamsen-show/id1799976761 

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it! Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentous. When your goal is healthspan, living better and longer, there are very few non-negotiables. One of them, quality. And when it comes to supplements designed for high performers, nobody does it better than Momentus. Momentus goes all in on NSF certification, which means every single batch is tested for heavy metals, harmful additives, and label accuracy. And that's why they're trusted by all 32 NFL teams and top collegiate sports dieticians

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Start today. GEN for 20% off. LiveMomentous.com. All right, you guys, we have Tamsen Fidel. Is that how you pronounce your last name? Tamsen Fidel, who just wrote the book, How to Metapause, on the show. Her book quickly became a smashing success

on the New York Times bestselling list. It's a great book. Thank you. Your documentary is great. She's become now, I believe, kind of like one of the big faces in Metapause. Not expecting to, but yeah. Not expected to.

Not a plan. But sometimes you make a plan, God laughs, right? It's so true. You know what? I have learned that in a big way. Right? Like, did you ever think that this was gonna be your life? No! I was like, I am gonna be a newscaster, and that's what I'm doing, and I would never... If you'd just told me that 10 years ago, I'd be like,

I don't even know what you're talking about, menopause. Yeah. Which is what I did five years ago, I didn't know. And look at you now. Because you're not... There's such a need, though. That's the reason. That's why we're all... Everyone's like, why is menopause having such a moment?

I said, it's not a moment. This is like, this should have been around for a long time. I do feel though, and I wasn't even sure if it was because of where I am in life. If it's only, is that why I'm seeing so much about menopause or is it just, is it having like a huge moment in the ZyGuys right now? That's what I thought.

I was like, is it my algorithm? Yeah. That's doing this? It's just feeding it to me over and over? But look, I think somewhat that. But honestly, I really do think that this is a conversation because I'm hearing people of all ages come up and talk about it. And men too talking about it. Men too?

And being very aware that it's out there. Yeah, that there's a conversation. I think men are being, men are probably are aware of it because the women that they're with are... Or making them be. Yeah, because it's because there's so much more, like I would say even like three years ago, I was seeing almost nothing about it. And then one day, like every third podcast we do now

is about metaphors, it's like so weird, you know what I mean? I get it. It's funny, I didn't realize like, you know, early on we started the conversation. It was really because I was trying to find help. That was really what it was. And now as we've gone along, I realized as I wrote the book, it was like, it impacts every area of your life. So it does make sense that the podcast you're doing like it has little touch points all over the place, whether it's workplace or how you work out or what you do with regard to mindset,

it's kind of everywhere. Well, also, I didn't know this stat until your book, but wasn't it like 50% of the workforce are women who are in menopause or something like that? So that's a huge stat. It's huge. We have a billion women globally in this menopause transition. 6,000 in the US alone come into menopause and into this transition every day.

And then if you look at the workforce, we have so many women in the workforce that are older now, which is amazing, but also very aware of what they're going through or starting to be aware of it. And, you know, we've got to have them get access and get some help and some care, because there's some great things on the other side of it, but you gotta get the symptoms handled. And there's so many symptoms, right? It's not just like the, right?

And I want you to talk about that, because I think that people think, oh, hot flashes. Right, right. And that's basically where it begins and ends. Right, right, right. But there's so many. There's so many.

That you can be having that you didn't even think that it could be metapause, right? Or perimetapause. Well, yeah, it's like you play Whack-a-Mole with the symptoms, kind of like, I'm stressed out. Okay, I'm going to go here. I can't sleep. I'm going to go here.

I'm gaining weight. You know, hot flashes have always been, like you said, the ha-ha kind of like, oh, hot flashes, metapause. Totally. But, you know, we're seeing now, because we know we have estrogen receptors all over our body, it totally makes sense. And so it impacts everything. It impacts your gums, it impacts your teeth.

We had no idea until we set out doing that documentary that that was even anywhere near part of the conversation. And side note, I had lost a tooth a year before when we were in the middle of filming. So I'm like, oh my gosh, what is this? Was it because of menopause? Well, they say that, you know, it affects everything. Like you've got these estrogen receptors all over, so it makes sense. And I was talking about it with somebody and she's like, I know, I'm having dental problems too. But you know, the 34 symptoms are the ones kind of I started talking about initially. And then there was a recent study done and it was

right as the book was about to publish, and I pulled back and added this to it, that there were 100 plus recorded symptoms of menopause that had come from a researcher out of Canada. So I was like, oh my gosh, I don't want people to be upset that there's like 100, but it makes sense. Wow. I know. So what are some of the more unusual ones

that people wouldn't even think about? Yeah, that's a good question. Okay, so burning tongue, or your tongue feels like it's burning, like kind of a little tingly. Yeah. Itchy ears because of so much dryness all over. You know, brain fog we talk about a lot now, but I don't think we had those words before. Like I would just stop in the middle of a sentence or go somewhere and didn't know why or lose something or couldn't find my keys.

That happens to me every day. My God. I know. I feel like that's happened to me my whole life, kind of. I was going to say, what part is just like kind of who you are? I don't know. I mean, it's gotten worse, but it's now gotten better because I'm kind of on the other side, which feels really exciting. Because when I was in the middle of writing the book, I was like, I need this thing to be brain fog proof. I can't remember anything right now. You know, joint pain

is another one that I think women are not aware of. and so they get very frozen shoulder or something else with inflammation, which is really frustrating. You know, it's really interesting. That's when I kind of figured, well, maybe I'm in perimenopause because I got a frozen shoulder. And I had no idea what, I kept on like... Do you have any of the other, oh, irregular periods, that's another one. Do you have the symptoms or do you know what your symptoms are?

I had it for two and a half years, this frozen shoulder. I don't have it anymore, thank God. But I had it for a long time and I worked through it. I kept on like working out thinking, I just hurt myself. And then one day I went to the doctor and he's like, you know what you have? You have a frozen shoulder and it's going to be... Well, whatever you're doing now, your shoulders are amazing. Oh, well, thank you. You better come on more often.

I would love it. I'd come here and work out with you. Anytime. I have a huge gym across the hallway. You can come over next time when we have more than 10 minutes to spend together. Oh, no. We're going to be good. Good. No, but like it took forever and I didn't know that that was like a sign of perimenopause. Yeah. Or what's the difference between perimenopause and menopause just for people who maybe haven't clued into this yet? Yeah. So perimenopause is everything before menopause,

and that's everything that happens before you go 12 months without your cycle. So that perimenopause can be anywhere from four to seven to ten years. So if you back it up a little bit, I know it's a long time. It's a long time of a lot of like craziness of your hormones. You know, they're kind of all like rollercoastery all over the place. But, you know, menopause is that 12 months without a cycle. And then everything after that is considered post-menopausal, but that's

kind of complicated. So basically you're menopausal any time after that. But if you look at the average age, the average age of women in menopause in the US is 51. And so if you back it up, 41, you could easily start that process. And some women started even earlier. I mean, there's some women that are in full-blown menopause. You know, 46, I was 48 when I got that, you know, first awareness of it. And so anything before that I thought was a result of, like, my divorce and, you know, and I didn't know what stress.

And it wound up it was perimenopause. It was crazy. ? Well, that's what I find so interesting about how you're now the poster child for menopause, right? Because, no, it's true, because you're not a doctor, you're a journalist, and how you kind of backed into it is really interesting to me. Do you wanna share the story so people are listening?

Yeah, I started out as a journalist, I was a journalist for 30 years. It's so weird to say that, right? I'm like 30 years, is that right? It sounds so long. It sounds so long. I know. And I was one night doing the evening news in 2019, and I was having a brain fog, but

I didn't know what it was. But I had been having that for a while where I'd look at a word, I'd see the word, and I'd know the word habits, but I'd be like, I don't know what that is. It wouldn't come out of my mouth and I would keep moving on. And so that would happen on and off, like whatever the word was in habits, but whatever the word was. And then that particular night, I got this into, have you had hot flash before? No.

Oh, yeah. So this one, I mean, they're all different intensities, but this one was really super intense. And I didn't know what it was, and it just came from the core of my body, and I just broke out in a sweat everywhere. And I'm like, I feel like I'm gonna fall over. My heart was racing, and two of my coworkers,

one of my coworkers walked me off the news desk. I didn't finish the broadcast, somebody else did. And I went right down to the bathroom floor because it was the only place that was cool. I was like, I'm going to pass out. And I thought maybe there was something going on with my heart because that was where I was at. And so anyway, about 15, 20 minutes later, I left the station and I started, I was like,

oh my gosh, something happened. The following week, I kind't figure out what's happening. As I went to my GP, like, no, you know, no, maybe it's stress, maybe it's this, maybe it's that. I talked to another doctor and I was put on Lexapro. And so that was for, you know, antidepressants. But I was still having like weird stuff going on. And I was not sleeping.

That was like a big one, which affects, as you know, everything. And I ended up going to an endocrinologist and then my gyno gave me the results from the test and it said, in menopause, dot, dot, dot, any questions. And that was my note in my patient portal. So I was like, what? I can't be in menopause. I'm too young. That's very right.

I'm like literally almost the average age. And then I wound up like doing this deep dive of like, I'm going to handle this naturally. I've got to figure this out, what am I gonna do? I lost my mom early to breast cancer, so I'd never had a conversation with her about it. And so that's how I set out to ask questions. Ended up on social media listing those symptoms.

The original ones were like 34 of them. I wound up listing them and I got like all these different responses. Like, oh my gosh, me too! And I didn't even have half the symptoms, I just couldn't believe there was so many. Yeah, that's what's so amazing about it. It's so amazing, and how are women, I just didn't understand it. And so I went to Instagram, when I went to Instagram,

that's really when things were like, what is going on here? There's all these women not talking about that. And so I just kept answering their questions. I would research, they'd be like, I can't sleep, blah, blah, blah. And I'd be like, okay, I'm going to answer this question. So I'd research it, get the study, put it out. It was very, you know, and that was kind of like my, during the day, I did that before I went to work and did the news. Really? Yeah, for years. And then I left my job 16 months ago to do this, you know, to fill out. We had the

documentary come out in October of last year. And then the book came out, you know, just recently. Wow, so that's not that long ago. Well, I was, it's that, that conversation started like in 2020, is when I started doing it, but 16 months ago is when I actually left. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, like that's not that long, 16 months ago is not... It's crazy, it's crazy. It's not that, and like, what's so like, again, fascinating to me, there's a couple things, the first thing is that I think that the problem is there's such a stigma,

like you're like, being an aging woman in our society is like the kiss of death in every way, right? It is. Well, I mean, it has been. It has been. So there's the stigma to say, oh, I'm in menopause, I'm having these menopausal symptoms, is like, I think for a woman, there's shame. So they just... Right? There's a lot of shame that people just don't want to talk about.

And so it just gets pushed under the rug. So what I like about the fact that now there's so much like chatter about it. Me too. There is like, the shame is kind of like subsided now. And everyone's screaming from the... I have menopause! I'm doing this. I have that. You know what I mean? It's so funny. I was in Miami, now it's been a couple of months, and this woman rolled down, my husband and I were crossing the street, and this woman rolled down her car window

and she was like, Tamsen, I'm in perimenopause. And threw her arm out the window like with a fit. And I went, oh, what? Yay. And then my husband's like, what did she say? I said, she's in perimenopause. He's like, like a club. And I said, I guess, sort of. It was really funny though to- So funny to me. Isn't that crazy? It was, and she was, but what made me really excited about that is that she was young and she was really like, took it like it was a cool, it was fine. Like it wasn't this, I don't want anyone to know, like how I went into it. And a lot of us have gone into it like it was fine. It wasn't this, I don't want anyone to know how I went into it, and how a lot of us have gone into it,

like, oh gosh, this is embarrassing. Because you're right, it's been a kiss of death. And it's been like... It's embarrassing. Ageism and menopause and all this, like all of it. Now what? Now who am I? Exactly. So I think it's scary.

It's like kind of like a sign to a woman that she's old, basically. Like you're basically done. It's over. Yeah. It's over. And so I think that's like really what the conversation is moving toward is like really looking at this timeline where we say, okay, we're in our periods, right? We're in our, you know, our reproductive years.

And then we come over here and it's like, don't talk about it. It's just very quiet. And we can see that, what that silence has done for a very long time. So I'm glad people are loud about it, because I think we had a lot of making up to do. Right, like is that kind of why you wrote the book in a way to kind of have, just to kind of be another voice

for what it is and kind of give women who don't necessarily have the information information? Yeah, I think a couple of reasons. Like when I originally set out to do it, it was because there were so many questions that I was trying to answer and I couldn't, it's not like one or two things, you know, because no woman is the same. The symptoms you have or I have, will always be different and always, it's so unique. And so I think that because there were so many things to talk about in it, like just

the symptoms themselves, and then that didn't even go into the lifestyle changes. Because when you think about it, if you're a woman that doesn't want to do hormones or can't do hormones, then you need to know what your options are. And that's not a lot of the conversation right now, but it hasn't been. And so there's all the lifestyle aspect of things. So I interviewed 42 experts for the book,

and I was excited about that because that's what I love to do. Right, that's what you do for a living. It like hearing, you know, different viewpoints of things, but all also like taking that information and distilling it so it wasn't like very dense, because I'm not a doctor. And I, you know, I just can't do that. But I wanted it to also be brain fog proof. Like, women are, I kept thinking like the woman that's reading this is probably not sure what's about to happen to her or is sure what's happening to her and can't even focus a little bit, doesn't feel good, feels terrible and wants to know there's some hope.

And so that's kind of what I did with each one of the chapters and how I broke it up. So it starts out with explaining how we got here from our past and then talking about hormonal, non-hormonal. And then we really move into the symptoms, obviously. That was a big chapter of understanding what those all mean. And then the rest of it is where it impacts you past the doctor's office. It impacts us at work, in the boardroom, in the bedroom.

It impacts us in relationships. It impacts us when it comes to mindset, when it comes to our bodies, our closets, all of that. All of that is impacted. And so it was important for me to just hit upon those things because I kept hearing from women like, my skin's different, my hair's different, my body, like... And some women would weigh the same, but their body distribution of fat would be different.

The composition, their body composition changes. It's been really hard for a lot of women and I understand it. So I wrote it, I was like, well, there's no what to expect when you're not expecting or in menopause, so I'm writing that book. So it's a how-to guide. It's great. And then what were some of the things

that you gleaned from the experts that you had that was surprising to you? Um, well, I think, you know what, I want to go back to the other question you asked because it'll answer this one too. One of the reasons that I really like went in hard on this is because I think women have to be their own experts with this. And we don't have a choice because a lot of doctors were not educated. And some are some are very, you know, educated themselves.

By the way, some people are still not educated. 100%. 100%. Did you, I find that still like MDs are not like I've been to three MDs and they're all like, oh, you're fine. Like you're... I totally believe that. I totally believe that. So what's that? What are you supposed to do with that? I've been to three MDs and they're all like, oh, you're fine. I totally believe that. I totally believe that. So what's that?

What are you supposed to do with that? I know. Well, and that's what this was for. That's really what it was for. And so a lot of them, it's not doctors' fault, but they did not learn this in medical school, most of them, especially not in different disciplines. And so that was very concerning to me that an OB-GYN has less than a month of learning about this time in a woman's life. That didn't even make sense to me.

And two, because we have so many women that are dealing it so quickly, not enough of those doctors to go around. Luckily we have telehealth now, but there's still a lot of women that don't have access, that they need to know what's going on so they don't feel like they're going crazy. So just the low hanging fruit is to get the information.

That was really what this was for. And so women could feel like they could take charge. So if they do go into a doctor's office like that, and the doctor's like, Oh, this is just what happens when you age, or you know, the symptoms aren't that bad. So if they're not that bad, I wouldn't go on hormone therapy. I mean, these are the things that we hear, women are hearing every day. So I want women to feel really empowered to go, you know what, that's not okay. I'm either going to another doctor or that's not okay. Here's why it's not okay.

And so they have actual resources and references, like the reference section is like that thick in the book. But only because if somebody wants to go into more detail, I want them to be able to do that. Right. I think the medical system is so broken. I agree with you. That you need to be your own advocate for everything. Across the board. Yeah, not just own advocate for everything. Across the board.

Across the board. Yeah, not just menopause, but across the board. And I never want to blame doctors because no doctor gets into this field of these hours and education and debt and all that, you know, to not help. But I do think that the system is broken. And so I do think that in any way that we can arm women with something that can help them right away, instead of saying, hey, we're going to try to do think that in any way that we can arm women with something that can help them right away, instead of saying,

hey, we're going to try to do another study in 20 years, and maybe we'll get you, you know, get your granddaughter some help. You know, women now need help. Well, one of the big problems is that, and I think you do talk about this, that there was a study about HRT, right? Hormone replacement therapy. It's dangerous.

So then so many women are fearful of going on this, doing it. And so really, like, besides doing that, like, you can make some light, you can exercise, you can do a lot of strength training, all those things that can help. But it doesn't take you over the edge. It doesn't kind of like push that, you know, the... What do you call that? The needle or the next... But does it push the... No,. It doesn't push that, you know, the, what do you call that?

The... The needle? No, but I was gonna say push that thing up the... Oh, rock up the hill? Yeah, rock up the hill. I was like, this is my brain right now. I've got the other half of you. I've got you. Thank God.

I totally understand. This is exactly what happens. I get a loss for words. This is another great symptom. Another great symptom. Yeah, you're right though. It really doesn't. And I think that I don't want women to feel discouraged, either going into this time in life or in this time in life, because I see them really doing some amazing things.

Like, I see women during this time getting this whole new sense of freedom about themselves and this whole new sense of purpose. And they're really unstoppable. It is incredible what I've seen women do. And so I do wanna try to help them get past those symptoms. And- The hurdle, I bet the hurdle.

It's the hurdle of all of it. It's like the symptoms, it's the fear, it's the mindset shift that we have to have. And you know, I watched my mother and I didn't realize that she went, I didn't realize that when you had breast cancer and she had a double mastectomy and chemotherapy, she was pushed into a medical menopause. I don't know if she ever knew that.

And so that breaks my heart, the fact that she would sweat all the time, she'd always be hot and we were like, why are you so hot all the time? And everyone would laugh and she would laugh. And it broke my heart when I realized about three years ago and I was talking to my dad and my brother because I have a very small family and we're really close. And my dad said, do you think that your mom was in menopause? And I said, well, did she ever mention it? And he said, never.

And I said, I actually don't know if she knew or not, but I definitely know she suffered alone. And so I really made a pact kind of to myself that if there was something that I could do, that this was going to be it. And so we did the documentary, and it's now been seen in like 450 plus cities and 40 plus countries. It's a great documentary. Thank you. But it's amazing like the conversation that happens afterwards with it.

Right. You know, and I think it's a bit, it's why you have those conversations. Yeah, I mean, of course, I also very curious and I like to know, and let me tell you something, honestly, I'm somebody who is curious and asks all the great, asks questions to experts all the time. And I'm still sitting here perplexed, like if you don't do hormone therapy, what are the options? Like I think there's not much you can do except like, you know, like white, like kind of white fist this thing, because that's the only thing that really I think does move the needle besides strength training and all these...

Yeah, well, all the lifestyle changes. Yeah, all the lifestyle changes. You know, there are some new advances in medicine, obviously, and there's a couple of things that, like, I always want women that can't or don't want to do it, because right now, we went from, like, 38% of women in this country that were on hormone therapy back in 2002 down to, like, 4%. Maybe we're creeping up to 5 now.

And so, and those are like the numbers from about a year or so ago when we did the filming. So I look at it, there is a prescription that is for, it's a non-hormonal to help with hot flashes, but that's what it helps with, is hot flashes. There is vaginal estrogen that is pretty safe for all women, and that's helpful for painful sex because that's just another area that really is terrible for women to be dealing

with. And then, yes, the other things are those lifestyle changes. So I'm just hopeful that some of this research shows different ways to go about things. And when we did the book, I made sure we did a lot of the non-hormonal options that are out there only because I kept thinking to my mother, like, what would she do? Would she be like, good luck, you know, it'll only be 10 plus years of suffering, and then you'll get past it, hopefully.

So I kept thinking about her when I was writing that, because, you know, we're talking about a lot of women that still are not comfortable or can't do it. 100%. That's what I think, that's what I really liked about the book as well, is because of the non-hormonal, because I think people are very, I mean- 100%. And you what I really liked about the book as well, is because of the non-hormone. Because I think people are very...

100%. And you can say all you want that the fears are... It was overblown, it was not... It was done with various... Dad didn't support it. Dad didn't support it, it was a selective study, all the things. But psychologically, people can still be very scared to go on hormones. I'm glad you said that because I agree with you.

We could talk till we're blue in the face, but the truth of the matter is, is that if you have a set belief, despite any of the data, and look, I put a lot of those references in the back because I am not a doctor, and it was really important for me to go deep into that research and make sure that we answered all questions and made sure that women felt comfortable and make sure that women could do the reading of it themselves. But if you don't feel comfortable with that, there's nothing I'm going to say that's going to change your mind, maybe, but not everybody. And so I wanted women to be aware of what that study was, where we are

today in 2025. I mean, that study was 23 years ago now. But imagine how long that has taken to take root. So it has taken root down here and to think we're just going to be able to toss that aside in a few years, it's not going to happen. So we've got to get those women some help. I agree. Have you noticed in your findings though that lots of it, it's mostly functional medicine doctors who are much more progressive with this versus MDs like OBGYNs? Right.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that it all comes down to what educating and a lot of those doctors are educating themselves. I sat down with one when I was in Chicago actually, and she had moved into more functional medicine and she said, you know, I really did this study myself about all of it because it wasn't just menopause, but it was just a little, it was everything. And I think, you know, when you're talking about root causes, that is extremely important, especially during this time, because there are gut issues, there are thyroid issues, there are cholesterol issues, there's a lot of things that come up during this time,

along with all this other stuff of being a woman. Right. What are you going to do? So, how will, okay, so in the workplace, because you talk about that, what can people do in the workplace? What is the options? I mean, in some workplaces, which is great, some of the benefits will cover hormone therapy or at least hormone, go to a place and get it coaching, whether it's telehealth or something else, but not enough. And so I think if you're in the workplace and you were dealing with those kind of symptoms

and you feel like you're comfortable enough to go in there and address it with HR, that's what I did. And unfortunately, at the time, they're like, what's a what's a menopause policy? Like it wasn't even, it didn't even like I was gluing words together, you know, and I said, well, they did it in the UK. You're like, wow, like Charlie Brown, you're talking a whole new language there. Yeah, I was like, here it is. Because the UK really has been very advanced with a lot of things way ahead of where we've been for a long time.

And hopefully, we catch up. But I think if you are willing or able to go talk to HR and try to do anything, whether it is finding a way to have group conversations for women's groups, finding a way to educate women or bring a speaker in there just to talk so you feel a little more comfortable, and then obviously benefits. I mean, there's other things like, can everybody have a fan at their desk? You know, if you're working in a factory, can you change uniforms? There's some actual real changes because we all work in a different environment, you know, we all work in different kind of workplaces. Not everybody is sitting in a corner office. So we have to take that into consideration too, when we're talking about these

kind of changes. What are some of the things that are top of mind that you really, like I said before, I'm gonna go back to the question, from the experts, the doctors, the people that you interviewed, 42 people you interviewed, what were some of the things that really surprised you the most? And that also, that's the first part of the question. And then the second part that you found to be like really helpful tips for other people

that people may not, when they listen to this podcast, that they can maybe like, oh, I never heard that one. Yeah. Yeah, I think that for me, the surprising part was obviously that lack of education that scared me quite a bit, but made me really determined. I think that the other thing was the fact that we have so much research that hasn't been done on a lot of things. Women weren't even part of studies until the mid nineties, like mandated to be part of studies. I thought that was just crazy. And then I think

my other concern was the dismissal of women, really like thinking that women can suffer through it and not realizing there's those long-term health ramifications that are possible when it comes to bone and brain and heart health. And so that scared me quite a bit because I didn't realize that when we were talking about treating menopause, we weren't just talking about these symptoms. These symptoms we're talking about. We're talking about long-term longevity, health span. So that's one area. And then I think that some of the tips that I thought were helpful really came in the

area of sleep. Sleep was a huge area that I was going to just make it a chapter along with brain. And then I realized that was a chapter that I really leaned into quite a bit because it's where women suffer, along with weight gain and belly fat. But sleep was a place where people were really, really suffering. And so to understand the importance know, the importance of that sleep hygiene, a sleep routine, understanding how important it is to get up in the morning and get moving, how important it is to make sure that you're in bed at the same time as best as possible,

and getting up at the same time light and how light impacts us in so many different ways. Right. So I didn't understand how important all that was. And when I did the initial interview, I'm like, oh, there's so much more. So I went back and did another interview with another specialist, because I really do believe that if women can at least get something handled, and that's not always easy, because our hormones are everywhere fluctuating, and we wake up in the middle of the night, and then we're wide awake at three o'clock in the morning for no reason. But I feel like if at least they can start tackling that part, which you can do right away, then at least you have a fighting chance to start feeling a little bit better.

And then belly fat's another big one too. Belly fat's a huge one, right? A huge one, it's a huge one. And I see a lot of incredible experts out there that are focused on fitness for women over 40, which is I think is really, really important because a lot of women didn't go to the gym and do weights. We did cardio.

We did cardio. We stayed away from the boy weight room. We were like, no, we're going to sweat it out until, you know, we did aerobics on that dang step. Yeah, the step aerobics. That blue step. So I do think that there's a learning curve there that we have to have. You know, that thing is there's so much like cross information, right? I agree. You know, people, you know, cold plunges, for example, is the thing. Do you have one? Yeah, I do have one.

Oh gosh, that's awesome. But I'll tell you something, I had a doctor on here, Dr. Stacey Sims was on here, and she's a, I really, she's got such great information. And you know, what I liked about her was she's very, she was contrary to all the, a lot of the like, the noise out there, right? Yep, yep.

And like, she said that the cold plunge for women is actually not beneficial. I know, I know. Right? It stresses your body too much. Which didn't bother me that much, because I don't really love it. Believe me, I was thrilled. I wanted an excuse. Did you just cover yours up? Right, right, right. Not to do it. Let's find like five more things.

I've got a million. I wrote down... I'd like to have some more. I have SoulCycle. Well, that's the other thing. Some of the hits and stuff that a lot of women thought was great, there's a lot of people that are saying, that's not necessarily where you need to focus. Because all the spinning and the intensity.

Oh my God, what we've done to ourselves. Because never when it breaks down your muscle or your lean muscle mass... 100% it does. And especially as you get older, you need more muscle. So it's doing the opposite of what you're trying to accomplish. Well, and I also think about women that have not been offered hormone therapy, too, because there is a whole generation, if not more, that never got that option. Yep.

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That's B-I-O-M-E dot com and enter code Jennifer20 for 20% off your first order of daily prebiotic fiber. That's biome.com code jennifer20 for 20% off. Grab it today. So you know, what I saw in the book, when I was like, when I was like pre my little, you know, those little dog tags, whatever, you did a big chapter on relationships, divorce. Why did you do that? Well, I went through a divorce in my early 40s,

which I'm assuming I was already in that area of perimenopause, but didn't know. But I was dating my now husband in perimenopause into... And I got married in menopause. And I realized that there were a lot of questions that I had, sex wasn't comfortable, I had no libido. I got married and I was like, I don't have any libido. And it's really upsetting because you're like, oh my gosh, is it the relationship? Is it us? Am I not attracted to him anymore? Is he not attracted to me? It was very unsettling.

Then I also was thinking about the fact that like, wow, what if I was going through this dating? Because I actually did have like a real drive with him when I was in perimenopause. I hit menopause and I was like, that was it. So I really felt like it was important to lean into that and also not to feel uncomfortable with it. And I think sometimes that we reserve sex for this whimsical fun, you know, like it's fun, it's young when we're young, and then we're older and we don't have that conversation. And I think it's a real shame. And I think that a lot of women don't feel sexual or sexually attractive or feeling, you know, like, you know, they're in their hot girl. Yeah.

And so I really wanted to, I really wanted to like lean into that a little bit. And so, you know, I interviewed Emily Morris, I interviewed a number of different doctors. We talked about testosterone, we talked about vaginal estrogen, we talked about lube, we talked about things that we shouldn't just be talking about as like toys. We should really be talking to them as part of a bedroom routine. And so also that women can know their own body too, because I think that that's the beautiful part of sex during this time, is that we know ourselves as well. And it's not just like, oh, I hope he knows what he's doing, or hopes she knows, you know.

And I think that that's important that we know ourselves in a relationship. Because I found that really interesting and probably very smart, right? Because if you're someone who's new to dating again, like in this stage of life, right? And you are going through this, right? Like, in that, in this stage of life, right? And you are going through this, right? Like you don't, like, you wouldn't know the difference between if it's just a symptom, like, oh, your libido's low, or am I just not interested in this person? And then like, relate, the whole relationship can go, you know, basically

blow up. Yeah, and I, and it really is, I think, very under-talked about, and I think it's really uncomfortable. And I don't know the next, last time I've ever been in a doctor's office where they were like, okay, how are you feeling, how's your weight, how's your sex life? No one has ever asked me that. And because we make it be like,

well, that's a private thing. Well, no, because that is all tied up in everything that we're going through right now, especially that. You know, and also, I shouldn't even say just like dating, right? Because if you're married forever, right? Yeah, especially that. It's, you know, and also I shouldn't even say just like dating, right? Because if you're married forever, right? Yeah, of course, that's another thing.

Right? And so it affects like, you know, I wonder how many relationships, kidding aside, have ended. Oh, sure. Right? Because like the woman's not interested anymore and it's not because they can't be. The guy doesn't understand

or the partner doesn't understand. Yeah. Right. And they don't, or they think it's because like they can't understand or the partner doesn't understand. Yeah. Right. Or they think it's because like there's no interest anymore or that like their romance is gone, whatever it is. Romance is dead. But who knows? But maybe it's just that.

Very easily. I bet you a lot of people are not even keeping that, like are not kind of cognizant that that could be a situation. No, I don't think so. And I think it's very, I'm sure it's very prevalent. And there was a study that was done, and I can't remember the year, but it was talking about the number of women in midlife

that were filing for divorce. And I thought that that was very interesting, initiating. Much higher than men. Much higher than men. And so I was really aware of some of those conversations, and I think there's so much more to do. But I wanted to touch on it because I thought it was important to bring that up and to also

talk about, you know, with a, I wish I had done another chapter on this and I just couldn't, but I put it in this one. I did like a love letter to my partner. And so I really wanted, and that's what Emily read actually in the bookstore. But I thought it was really important for partners who might not have, you know, they might not have had the conversation before to be able to hear something of like what a woman is thinking or going through during this time. I thought that was really important because I don't think it's easy to verbalize and I think it's really difficult to communicate sometimes when you can't even communicate it with yourself.

Right. And I think that's again, it comes down to like not understanding the shame. Not understanding what we're going through. We're just learning. We're in a learning curve right now. Exactly. And I think like, you know, it becomes like one of those things, like, you know, your husband or boyfriend, whatever, is like, oh, yeah, she's on her period or she's like dealing with this. Like, it's very much like kind of like... It's hormones. It's hormones, exactly.

And it's like not taken seriously. Yeah, not at all. It's definitely not taken seriously. Not at all. It's not taken seriously. And it's also been kind of very mocky. And I think that that's what we have to get beyond. And I think the media has not done a great job at that. I mean, we didn't talk about any of these kind of studies.

I don't remember any of these kind of studies. I remember studies when I was on the air doing the news about heart, about weight gain, about risk of stroke, Alzheimer's all the time, food groups, all the different, like, you should eat eggs, you shouldn't eat milk, you should have to eat, all that stuff. I don't remember talking about perimenopause, menopause. I don't remember talking about any of that stuff. No, it's not sexy.

It's not sexy. I don't know if it, you know, well, now it is, but it wasn't. Yeah, exactly, now it's a little more sexy. So what is your routine? How did you kind of overcome those symptoms and kind of go through menopause in such a good way? Like, what did you do? Well, I don't think I did in such a good way.

I think it was a struggle for a long time. You know, I had some really like dark days that I didn't even know were perimenopause. I think that... But you got over the hump, I guess. Yeah, I got over the hump, yeah. And so I really had to focus on what was important. Like I did the typical, I don't need to sleep. This is, it gets fine.

I can push through everything. And then I realized one day like, you're, this is it. Like this is the time that's going to set you up as more I've studied this for the next 30 to 40 to 50 years. So you better figure it out girl. Like, you know, I really, I really did have to stop a little bit and refocus what was important and especially past 51, cause that's when I lost my mom.

So I didn't really have that roadmap of what, when she was 51, what that looked like past 51 years old. And so, you know, I did decide to do HRT and I do, and it was a big game changer. Very helpful with sleep, very helpful with hot flashes, very helpful with night sweats, which were a big problem. I really did change workout routine, like, immediately as soon as I realized

what was going on with strength training, though I always really liked lifting weights, but I thought I had to do cardio to, like, the crazy, you know, amount. And then, you know, I did focus on my sex life quite a bit. I really did. It was not a... That wasn't like, okay, I'm doing some vaginal estrogen and lube and everything's fine. Like, it really did have to take conversation

and commitment to it and really kind of, you know, figuring that out, being open and honest about conversations that were uncomfortable. Right. Well, I told you before, like, Emily is like one of my best friends. So, like... You're lucky. You've been having this conversation forever. No, I was gonna say, she talks about this with me all the time. I hear it all the time. I'm like, oh, God. I always laugh and joke around with her because it's part of her vernacular. That's how she talks. Her and I went on a biking trip to Croatia with a bunch of people. We didn't know them. We had to

have dinner with them every night. And like her wording and her verbiage is very different than what like a normal person would be. It was hilarious. It's great. It's great. So funny. So funny. Well, it's funny to watch how people are like, what? I know. I just rolled off her tongue, though. Oh, yeah. She has nothing. We were in Barnes and Noble and we were like, this is it was at the Grove.

And it was a few weeks ago. And we were in the middle and Noble and we were like, it was at the Grove and it was a few weeks ago and we were in the middle like where you are, you're kind of like by the, you know, I think there was like cookbooks and I don't know what else was behind us. And we went to do the Q&A and people are like, I want to talk about my sex life. And I was like, great. And then we're like, Ellen and I were talking and I kind of looked around, I was like, we're in the cookbook section of the bookstore. Is that okay that we're like, but it was great.

And the store was awesome about it. They, you know, it was just, it was really wonderful to see it so open and they came up afterwards and they were like, thank you. And I was like, no, thank you for, you know. I feel like all of it, like the sex stuff, the sex talk is becoming a little bit more mainstream. It is, it is.

It's still uncomfortable though, like just to a lot of people, me included, not because of anything. It's just like I'm not used to it, except, you know, nobody is, you know? None of us were. And, you know, I do think that paying attention to mindset with all this is really, really important because I didn't have any way to control stress. I didn't pay attention to any of that stuff.

I was like, oh, yeah, okay, I'll have time to meditate. Sure. I just, I didn't have those, I didn't have those habits built in that stuff. I was like, oh yeah, okay, I'll have time to meditate. Sure. Exactly. I didn't have those habits built in, and so I had to learn them. So what are your habits? Like what do you do every day now? Yoga is huge for me. Even if I can do 10, 15 minutes, like that is my meditation, really.

That's what I can do. Every day? Well, if I do it, it's short. It can be very, very short, but that's what I do in the morning. Okay. Like I go outside and walk in the morning first thing, come back and do that, and then I'll decide if I'm lifting weights. But I can't do like three hours of working out.

I just don't have that. And I don't have that. I don't want to do that. I don't want it to be where I'm not looking forward to something. Lifting is huge for me. And then with stress management, I really have gotten into a place where I understand what I can and can't do and understand my focus. It takes a lot of focus for me nowadays, different than what it used to.

It takes a little more brain power, different than what it used to, but I've embraced that part of it. And I let myself, you know, be okay with it. I'm okay if I have to go to bed early. I'm okay if I, you know, if I just can't be perfect and I can't be all the time. Right.

Now I know it's also having grace with yourself, I think is a big piece of it. Yeah, it's huge. I was saying to a friend, I was like, yeah, we were at a hotel. And I said, I'm just going to go to bed early because I just really need to like, I need to like take care of myself tonight. My old me would be like, what time do you want to go downstairs?

I'll totally go to dinner and I'd be dreading it the whole time. Yeah, I would hate doing it. I'm so, you know, I'd be like, why did I agree to this? That would be so resentful. And now I'm like, nope, I'm not doing it anymore. And that comes with age. I think you feel like that's an age thing. I think so. I still get myself in that situation though, more often than not. I do too. So you can call me whenever and I'll give you permission to cancel. So this is why I love Emily. Because like, you know,

we make plans 100 times and we never do half of them because we're too tired. But it's great though. It's a real friend that you're like, I'm not interested. I don't want to do it. And that's another thing I want to say real fast. Community is huge during this time. I think I have built a community of people that I feel like really so, so lucky every day to have around me. So lucky. And keep meeting new ones like you.

I feel like I'm going to know you for a long time. I hope so. You're adorable. Yes, I feel very lucky about that. I think that's great. You know what I was saying earlier when we were like, what were we talking about? We were talking about the cardio. We were talking about the crazy cardio that we would do because we thought we had to do that to keep the weight off or to like, you know, part of the...

I mean, I had an eating disorder then. I read a true one where I would not eat or I'd eat and I'd go to the gym and I had to work it down like every... I wrote down calories like gum. I wrote everything like everything. Even until what time? Until when in life? Until I got really sick.

I was 20... I was how old was I at that point? I think I started around 26. I had moved to Orlando, maybe I was 28 by now. And I was, I had gotten sick like a flu or something. And I couldn't stand up and my father had to come carry me down two flights of stairs. Can you imagine that? Yeah. And I had like, you know, I was brought to the hospital and then they put me into therapy. And that's really, that's where therapy really started for me and was a game

changer. It was. Yeah. But it took a long time, you know, it took a long time. But I know that it was because of how I, you know, that mindset of what we learned and what we thought was important. And it's so hard to unravel that. Oh, it's still always there. I'm always back there, it always kicks back there, but it is very hard to unravel, but I'm very, very clear of my why now. You know, my why is not skinny, my why is to be strong and to feel satisfied with that. You know what I mean? Versus never enough.

I'm tired of the never enough. And that's what I feel like I did for a long time. Like, it's never enough. I kind of, more, keep going, more. And, you know, I don't feel like that anymore. I think it's also priorities change as you get older as well. Totally change. Do you have kids? I don't. I don't. I have two bonus kids.

Two bonus kids. How did you guys meet by the way? Oh gosh, so we met after I swore I would never get married again, ever never ever get married again. And then I met him in Miami. He was at a conference for work. And I was hanging out at this hotel by the pool with a friend of mine. And she, she was part of the conference, but I had gone to see her. And she said, she saw him and she was like, this is Tamsen, this is Ira. And I was like, hey, and I kept going and he went up to his hotel room to watch football. And then the girls that night called him down. They were like, you really need to know he loves to travel. He's like really funny. And I was like, listen, I'm never getting married again. I don't want a serious relationship again. I've been through that already. I'm perfectly happy single." And he came down. He was like really charming and nice,

but not like cheesy charming, like just genuinely nice. And then he traveled long distance to come back and forth to see me for almost two years from, he was living in California in Santa Monica. I was in New York anchoring the evening news and he would come back and forth. Yeah. And he would be like, he go, do you you wanna go out this weekend? And I'm like, yeah, how about Sunday night? And this poor guy would spend the entire weekend in New York and I would give him Sunday night. I didn't know.

I thought he was just like back here for something. Really? I was awful, I guess. I love that story. Oh my gosh. I'm like, that is awful. You're like, that, I love it. I do love it because I think that's really good.

You don't wanna be that available. But I wasn't even trying not to be. I was just like completely not. I was refusing for myself to be any part of that, you know. So he would just hang out in New York for the weekend. Yeah, I guess. Like he would get a hotel, because he was traveling back and forth for work, but on the weekends he didn't have to be there.

And so anyway, so finally it started to get serious, and then we got a place together in New York, and now we go back and forth, so we're bico-stolen. That's so cute. Yeah, he's so sweet. He's very funny. So how long did you date before you got married? Um, let's see. This has nothing to do with menopause, by the way.

No, but it was during the menopause years. It'll all count. So he says that we only dated for... Let me think, we got married in 2021, and he says it was only like a few years because he didn't count the first years. Like that wasn't dating, that was ridiculous. But we met in 2017 and we got married in 2021. So, you know, it was four years.

I love that. Yeah, yeah. See, like you're living, you're a perfect example of someone who's living their best life in these years. Like you're a great poster child. Thank you. Yeah, he's, he, you know, he made it very easy because I said, I want to walk the Earth with him.

Like, he's just so fun and like, he's the first person I want to call, but not in like a cheesy way. Like, ooh. But we just really have a great time together. So it's nice. And he's very patient. Like, have you been on social media at all today? Today? No, I haven't been. I've had 55 podcasts. Oh, I'm sorry. So there's this AI graphic everyone's making of themselves, like of themselves in AI, like whatever they like to do in my mind. So we made one of my husband and we

posted it. Like he's very serious businessman. So we posted it, but he's like, fine. You know, he goes, I did not approve this, like jokingly. And everyone else, he's just because he's so straight and serious, like straight. Like he's got a good temperament though. Yeah, he's very good. He's very good. He just tolerates it. I love that.

He's got two kids, you said. He does. He has two adult kids who are wonderful. They're just really sweet. One is 30 and one is 32. Not like it's my business or anybody else's, but I want to know. You know what I mean?

I don't have any secrets. I don't have any secrets. I don't have any secrets. Yeah, so we have a good time together, and I just, I love them, and I have a nephew who's going to be 14, so he loves my little nephew, and so it's nice. It's fun. It's not what I expected. I didn't, you know, I thought I was like going to be alone with my chihuahuas the rest of my life. That's what I was, I was banking on.

And now look, now you're living your best life here. Now I'm talking to you about menopause. I had no idea. And who would have thought? Which is why I love this. I love like the story behind it, right? Because we never know where things are gonna go. We try to like make these plans that like,

I'm definitely doing this, and I'm definitely... None of my definitelys, you know? Like that didn't happen. Totally, make a plan, God laughs. That's basically the story of life. No, I think so too. And I think I look at, you know, so many of the women right now that are learning about this, I'm really grateful. Like, I'm grateful that they are starting to have resources.

I'm grateful that the conversation is picking up and that there's help available for them. Totally. So, yeah. Thank you. By the way, thank you for staying longer. I know that this whole thing was a total cluster. It was not. Stop apologizing! Stop now!

Because I feel bad. You were sitting out there. No, I didn't. I left. I left and came back. So it's fine. We're good. We're way good. I'm so happy that you were able to stay longer. No, I'm so happy I did. And that you came on the show because I really... You're such a joy. No, you are a joy. And your book, I really...

And there's a bazillion Metapause books out right now, but yours is truly exceptional. And because I love when people compile the best information out there and drill it down in layman's terms for the average person. I could remember it. Well, that's the problem because so many of these books are very medical and sciency and from one perspective, right? So I like that you kind of took the best of the best and kind of put it together and sandwiched it into a book. And I love that there's more awareness on this

and it's becoming less shameful. Because of people like you. You're having podcasts and talking about it and sharing and I think it's a really big deal. I don't think that any of us realize how much if one woman listens to it and repeats it to somebody else and repeats it to a really big deal. I mean, I don't think that, you know, any of us realize how much if one woman listens to it and repeats it to somebody else or repeats it to somebody else or a guy is listening,

it makes a big difference. It really makes a difference. It makes a difference. And I think it makes a difference when people speak to, like to reach you where you are versus- 100%. Right, above. 100%. And you do a great job of all of that talk

and explaining it. Thank you. So the book is called, I Have it somewhere, but it's not around. It's okay, I didn't bring it either, so it's fine. It's called How to Metapause. And Tamsen, you're great. Follow her on Instagram. What is it? At Tamsen Fidel, right?

Uh-huh, at Tamsen Fidel. And where else do people find you? I need your arm routine, that's it. Okay, I'll give that to you too. At Tamsen Fidel or, you know, How to Metapause. That's it. That's where we are right now. That's where we are right now. That's where we are right now. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Bye.