Habits and Hustle - Episode 471: Lance Armstrong: The Real Doping Story, $100M Loss, and His Venture Capital Comeback

Episode Date: July 29, 2025

What does it take to survive a 20% chance of living, win seven Tour de France titles, and rebuild your life after losing everything? Lance Armstrong joins me on the Habits and Hustle podcast for a raw, unfiltered conversation about resilience, authenticity, and the mindset that refuses to quit. We discuss the grueling reality of the Tour de France and why he says the doping controversy was not anti-doping failure. We also dive into his current ventures with Next Ventures, his "We Do Hard Things" podcast, and the personality traits that his kids say define him most. Lance Armstrong is a cancer survivor, former professional cyclist, and co-founder of Next Ventures. He won the Tour de France seven consecutive times. Today, he's a successful venture capitalist investing in health and wellness companies and has built a new life focused on family, business, and doing only what brings him joy. What We Discuss:  (08:11) Getting Tested at 15 and Discovering Elite VO2 Max Numbers  (15:44) The Doping Controversy: "Technically I Didn't Get Caught"  (17:23) Why He Thinks He Was Made a Poster Child  (22:27) Getting Cancer at 25 with Only a 20% Chance of Survival  (36:18) The Livestrong Foundation and Selling 82 Million Yellow Bands  (42:04) His Love of Being Alone and Sacred Solo Bike Rides  (59:54) Having to Pay Back Over $100 Million After the Scandal  (1:02:37) How Uber Investment Through Lowercase Capital Saved His Family  (1:06:09) The Netflix 30 for 30 Documentary and Public Perception Shift …and more! Thank you to our sponsors: Momentous: Shop this link and use code Jen for 20% off Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Bio.me: Link to daily prebiotic fiber here, code Jennifer20 for 20% off.  David: Buy 4, get the 5th free at davidprotein.com/habitsandhustle.   Find more from Jen:  Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen   Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Lance Armstrong: Website: https://www.nextventures.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lancearmstrong/?hl=en 

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentous. When your goal is healthspan, living better and longer, there are very few non-negotiables. One of them, quality. And when it comes to supplements designed for high performers, nobody does it better than Momentus. Momentus goes all in on NSF certification, which means every single batch is tested for heavy metals, harmful additives, and label accuracy. And that's why they're trusted by all 32 NFL teams and top collegiate sports dieticians

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GEN for 20% off. LiveMomentous.com. [♪ MUSIC PLAYING, FADING OUT, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, MUSIC PLAYING, END CREDITS, a while, at least. And we've had a lot of different run-ins together, which is very funny. I don't do it on a podcast. You don't really. It's true because when I was doing more research on you, they were kind of old, like 2023, 2017. Yeah, I feel like I stopped doing them. Well, why? I mean, we said this earlier, you get asked the same questions over and over again. And I just, maybe a little of that,

but I just don't love, I know that I'm sitting here. I just don't love sitting around talking about myself. I mean, it's not, you know, and I think, I think they're good for, here we are again, about start this thing, so it's odd, but I think if you're, say you're an author, right? And you have a new book out, right? You have to go do shows and podcasts to promote the book.

Or if you're a band or a singer songwriter, you might go out to promote the album. Right. Like, I don't know. I live, at this point, a pretty quiet, simple life that I don't need to promote anything. I'm not promoting anything. Well, then why did you say yes?

Because you're a friend. And because I harassed you for long enough. No, no, no, no. And I mean, it's weird. Like I did, like I did Steve-O's podcast. Yeah, I saw that. Just because I grew up, I didn't know Steve-O, but I grew up watching Jackass,

and I just thought, well, that's fun. Right. So you're doing things more based on like just how like in the moment if how you feel, right? Like, oh yeah. I do whatever I want to do. Right. That's a good place to be in life, right?

It's an amazing place to be. I only do what I want to do. So, okay. So by the way, so thank you for doing this. I really appreciate it because I tell you, I told you this before, I'm fascinated by your whole trajectory of life, your personality and like, and I don't know you this before, I'm fascinated by your whole trajectory of life, your personality, and I don't know you so well, but what I find so interesting, I said this to you before when I was attempting to work out with you.

I had too many questions for you, and it was kind of a half-assed workout because of it. But you have... We moved a little bit. We moved a little bit, okay. But I really am a workout person. I promise you next time we'll do a better job. But I had so many questions. And the thing is you have like a real authenticity to you that like, you may

come across kind of more gruff, but like you, you have a very like kind, true, authentic heart and like you, I think you probably, it looks to me like you kind of feed off of energy, like if you like somebody or you like something, you probably are very different in that environment than you are otherwise. Right? Yeah, you're exactly right. And so, right? And I choose to be, you can't always choose this, but I can, at this point, I've built

it up so that I can choose the room that I'm in normally. Right, of course. Most of the time. And I tend, I choose rooms that have good energy. So whether that's the people that you're around, the friends that you choose to, to hang out with the types of businesses that you're in, it's just whoever's on your team. I mean, I have teams around me, whether it's on the podcast side or, or on the

investing side, like I'm around people on those teams that I want to be around. Right, what do you like to do now? Besides the fact that you have now, you can do whatever the hell you want. Like you said, you have options, you don't care, you're the boss, I've heard you say that before in some podcasts, it's like now you're the boss.

Well, that sounds weird, I mean, I'm my boss. You're your boss, because even when you were, well, let's go back, let's go back to little lands. Let's kind of like chronologically do this. Little lands. Because when you were little lands, cause you were not always, you weren't, you didn't start off as a cyclist, right?

You started off like you were doing swimming, I heard. So yeah, swimming was my first serious sport. Do you still swim? Occasionally. It's funny, so when you're my age and you swim, seriously you would swim what they call masters. Right, I know masters. But most people listening may not know master.

Masters is, it looks like a swim team for old people. Yeah. So I grew up swimming with kids, and if you're a serious swimmer at that age you swim what they call age group swimming. So kids when they're young they can sort of do the the summer country club swim league which is just in the summer or if you swim year-round and you swim more serious you swim age group. It's like Michael Phelps, Katie Ledecky, they grew up swimming age group swimming, so that means they swam twice a day,

every day, 12 months a year. That's how I grew up swimming. So then when you get older and you want to be a serious swimmer, you swim masters, right? And so that's when I, like 15 years ago, I started swimming again, seriously. And the masters team that I swam with

is like two blocks from my house. I could walk again, seriously. And the master's team that I swam with is like two blocks from my house. I could walk there every day. And I just, I don't go that often. And I haven't been in a while, but I can, I still enjoy swimming. I don't love chlorine, to be honest with you. Chlorine, you know, if I lived at the beach, I would probably swim open water.

I'd probably swim almost every day. But the chlorine thing, and just kind of... It kind of sears you away from that. So my question more was like, okay, so you started off in swimming. Like, how did you get into cycling? Was it, did you have, it seems to me, like your endurance is off the charts, genetically, were you tested? Did you have like, did you, was it just something,

how did you know that cycling was gonna be the sport? You did swimming, which was an endurance thing. And then I started doing triathlons. Right. And then I turned pro in triathlon when I was 15. Okay. And so then I knew that I had, I was getting results as a 15 year old kid

racing against 30 year old men. Right. That you didn't need to be in a lab to know that you had some, that I had the DNA or the talent to be an endurance athlete. But at that time I did, I lived in, I grew up in Dallas. So I went, I got asked to go be tested at a place in Dallas called the Cooper Clinic, which is pretty well known. It's a place that it's not dissimilar to Mayo Clinic or other places where

folks will go and get tested. So I went as a, as a young kid and the testing, you know, I did a VO2 max test and all these things and the, and the physiologist was like, Oh wow, this is, I'm not sure we've seen a VO2 like this before. So, but again, Do you remember what it was? I mean, I'm 53, it was 40 years ago. So no, but it was high. Yeah. I heard it was 86. I don't know if that was right.

That's what I read. Who knows? It's funny. VO2 is having a moment again. Like I feel like, you know, when we were at that, when I was that age and then, and then when I was cycling and at the Olympic training center, we would test VO2 max. And then it kind of, you know, maybe it was prohibited because you needed all, you needed the lab, you needed the equipment.

And now they've got these mobile units. And so it's having a moment again. It is. And so anyhow, but it's, there's a lot of different variables when it comes to VO2 max. But why, okay, cause another endurance, why cycling and not running?

Like why did you single out cycling? Well, a couple of things. One, I enjoyed cycling more. Okay, that's a good reason. And who wouldn't? Yeah. Right, I mean, if you have the option to go for four or five hours

and see 80 miles of beautiful terrain versus in no impact on the body versus seeing 15 miles of beautiful terrain in a lot of it. I just, and I was better at cycling. I quickly figured out that cycling was my strength. Now, when I was a young kid and doing triathlons, I could swim with the front group.

So I would come out of the water with the leaders. I would come off the bike with the leaders and they would run away from the, these guys that I would race with would run away from me because they were, I mean, they're 30 year old men. They run a lot faster. And so I mean, I still would finish top 10, but I knew that cycling was going to be the best of the three. So then I started to just gradually transition to cycling and I went to the Olympic Training Center and then I got selected for the junior world championships team, which was in 1989,

which was in Moscow, which is kind of wild. I mean, this would have been in August of 89 before the wall came down. Like I was a 17 year old kid in Moscow. Like it was, it was, That was crazy. Yeah, I'm like, this is, and so that was, and then pretty much a year or two later, I switched full-time. How old were you when you won the first Tour de France? How old were you?

27 years old. Your first one was 27. Yep. So- I think that's right. I'm trying to do the math, 1999. Yeah, maybe 28 actually. Geez. Well, because I wonder, how do you train for that?

Because I think people are, you hear it's super grueling. It's like, it's like- That's all true. It is grueling. It's horrible. Like people like, you hear like little rumblings, but people who are not cyclists or who don't follow it, can you describe why it is as grueling as people hear rumors to be like, why is it so, and so dangerous on top of it?

Very dangerous. And I mean, I think that's the thing that it's obviously an endurance event. Obviously. It's three weeks, it's over 2,000 miles, it's every day, there are two rest days, but it's, you know, the, it's recovery is difficult, but there are 200 guys on the road, all trying to be at the same place at the same time. So you're not just, and of course we are on a team we had in my generation, we had nine riders on the team. So we're racing against 190 other people.

It's, it's hard to control that. And you know, the roads are technical, there's crashes, there's mechanicals, and so it's, there's a lot, like it's a mix of endurance, sort of NASCAR, cause you're fighting for position all the time, strategy, politics, right, since you have the politics piece, when you think about it, if you're nine guys trying to control 200, you have to be political. You can't, no team can control that.

You're constantly trying to find allies and friends in that peloton. And those people that are your allies and friends on day two might be your enemies on day eight. Wow. So you're constantly trying to figure out the dynamics of this living thing that's going down the road known as the Peloton. And so like, how do you train for that?

Like what's the training schedule? Like how do you, cause it takes a very particular mindset person to be able to even go through the grueling training schedule. Like, do you remember what you did day in, day out? No, I mean, well, first of all, there's a lot of racing beforehand. Okay.

So it's not, you don't just show up to the tour and say, I've trained perfectly. I mean, we would do anywhere from 40 to 60 race days before that. And then obviously a lot of training, a lot of reconnaissance. Do you have to do weight? Can you go to be like skinny right like very small? Not a ton of strength training. So what do you is it all endurance training? Like did you do did you do like mental mindset tricks and do you like how do you psychologically prepare for that?

Like what is there anything on that side? No, no, I mean we we, we, other than being convinced I was going to win. Like, no, exactly. But you have to, you have to believe your belief system on yourself has to be so strong, like that you, that you actually believe that you can actually. Yeah. I mean, not the, not the first couple, but after I got a couple under my belt, I was, I was pretty sure we were, I mean, look, anything can happen. You can have all these things I described, accidents, illnesses, bad luck, or just bad luck, caught out in a crosswind, lose five minutes.

I mean, this can- But what made you, like, I guess what made you so, this is the thing, okay? So I'm gonna not beat around the bush, obviously. Like, why is it that everybody on the tour, you got caught for doping, but everybody was doing it, right? So like the playing field right away. Technically I didn't get caught, but that's another discussion.

That's a whole other discussion. But my first- I was certainly exposed, but not caught. That's true. If that makes sense. No, explain it. I mean- Because for people who are not familiar with, like, of course I know, but people who are younger who are listening,

who don't really know all the details of minutia, people would just say, yeah, Lance Armstrong got caught for doping, right? Yeah, which is fine too. I mean, if that's sort of the story or the storyline that has survived, then that's fair too. But I was just half joking. I mean, being caught, we obviously were tested every day. Right, right, right.

So being caught would be like you tested positive. I mean, there was none of that. It was way more complicated. It was more of a legal process. Yes. Than, it was a success of the legal system and not a success of the anti-doping system. But why do you think that you were made

to be such a poster child? Like people, everybody was, my point was it's so grueling, it's so horrible. I feel like the, it seems to me the baseline was everybody was doing it and you still were in that baseline so much better and exceeded everybody else. Yeah, I don't, I think that's right. And I think that that's not a popular answer,

but the popular answer isn't an informed answer. Right. The informed answer is, and this is, I've talked a little about this in the past, the only people that matter, the only people that matter are the people who were in the race. That's it. In my opinion, that's all I care about.

Now, if 90% of them were yelling and screaming, you know, lynch this guy, then that would suck. But the reality is 0% of them have said that. So they're all that matter, right? The people who were in the war and in the battles and in the trenches and in the fights and were head to head, that's all that matters, right? And so...

Like what would be the one thing that you wish people knew that people don't realize or don't know? If there was like one piece of information that's been very misbranded in the media, what would it be? I mean, look, I'm not going to get into the details of it because I've moved on with my life. And I feel like I've done a decent job moving on

with my life. What I will say is that there were a few things, as this legal process played out, to sort of reinforce and really to dance on my grave. There were three or four taglines and PR statements made that just weren't true. So that's, but whatever. That's what those agencies chose to do and they're not, they're simply not true. And the, again, if, if it time tells the true story here and I'll just give an example, right?

So if, if somebody says that guy right there pointing to me, that's the biggest fraud in the history of sport. I mean, come on, that's, that's easy to say at the time that feels good for the other side to say, I'm sorry that it's not true Right and and I know that My competitors know that my teammates know that The people that I raised as a 15 year old professional triathlete know that the people that I raised as a 53 year old High rocks athlete know that so that's, they're just jerking themselves off.

But hey. No, I think that's, I think it's, cause I think also the biggest and best, people love to see that person fall, right? And then rebuild, like someone like you, cause you've had like between that, I was gonna ask. I don't think they considered the rebuild.

I mean. I don't. they considered the rebuild. I mean... I don't. I think I meant what I said. When you dance on somebody's grave, they're in the grave. That's true. And that's what they did. And that's, but that wasn't gonna stay in the grave. Well, also, you know, it's interesting.

I said this to you before. It's like, you were probably such a loathe place, but it didn't ever, it never really, it didn't seem like you ever got, it didn't take you into a bad place. I feel like you kept on succeeding over and over in other areas of life. Yeah, but it's been, look, it's been 12, 13 years. That's a long time. So I had time. I didn't have time to be a professional athlete again. Time was up for me. I was 40 years old and was banned in cycling. But I had time to be patient and to reimagine,

reassess, reinvent, reemerge in whatever way. So I had time for that, but there was a long period, and I say long, I mean five-ish years where I was just patient and I just watched and waited and did all the things I just laid out, right? Primarily reimagining and reassessing. But even like you get cancer at 25 years old, right? And like I read that your doctor gave you like basically 20% chance of old, right? And like, I read that your doctor gave you, like, basically 20% chance of living, right? And you were, that little amount, you were able to, you know, against all odds,

beat that and then go on again to win. Like, that to me says something about, like, your brain and your mindset and your will, I guess, overall the will, is what I'm so fascinated by. Like, is that something that is just so innate in you? Like, nothing can like, you're, like, it seems like you're actually are, like you are, like, unstoppable. Is that something that you train for? Are you just born like that? Like, can people become that if they're not that way? Because you just are who you are, right?

I mean, look, I... Maybe. I mean, that's... That all sounds good. But yeah, but how do you... And then you went to win again. And you... I think some people are just better equipped. I was equipped to not quit, right? And so I didn't quit when I was diagnosed

and I fought for my life and I got my life back and then I fought to win the tours and then that got, that story got edited. Well, tell me about how, how did you even get, how did, were you able to ever train like that again? Nevermind like people can't, people who are the healthiest as ever, I can't even imagine like cycling like around the block 40 times. How do you win? The body comes back. No, that level. Like your cancer was all over your body, right?

Like you. Yeah. But then the cancer, I mean, you clearly. Clearly. Yeah. I also, I was racing sick probably, I don't know for how long, but, but long enough to, in my mind, I thought, well, God, I've been sick for, I mean, I did the Olympics in Atlanta

two months before I was diagnosed. So part of me, and I'm just, I was just telling myself this, but I was like, wow, I've been sick for a long time. Like, just imagine when I get healthy and I get all of this stuff out of my body, wow, like I'm gonna be super bad ass then. No, I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I was telling myself.

And so did you do a lot of self talk? Like I wanna know like the intricacies. Like do you talk to yourself to like push you? Do you like, what's your, like what do you, what goes on in your brain? Like is there a narrative? Is there like something you're saying? No, I mean, I don't? No, I don't push myself.

It's been a minute since I pushed myself. Back then, we trained a lot and pushed ourselves a lot. I don't do that anymore. But you kind of like, you still are training daily. Yeah, but not like that. I'm just, I mean, I do, it depends if I ride my bike, that takes longer. But if I train in the gym or go for a run, I mean, it's an hour a day. It's not, you know, it's not.

No, I know it's not. But what I'm saying, like, okay, after you, when you got diagnosed with cancer and then you beat cancer, what was the process to get back to be like a champion again? Like, what did you do? What was the, what was the mental? I just went straight back to. It didn't even…

No, I went straight… I mean, I took a year off. I took the year… I was all of 1997. I didn't race. So then I just… But when I went back, I straight back in. My question is, I think that people like are…

Well, this is what I want to know. Is like when I… You just overall, like if you are succeeding in a lot of different areas, like business, you've become like the rock star and like with with Next Ventures, the cycling, like it seems like everything that you do, there is like a massive level of success. Okay. So to me, that's that is indicative of someone's like mindset and will and determination and ambition and all these things.

Right. My question is really, not even a question, but is that just something you've always been, like that's just who you are and that's just how you, like how does somebody, is there like actionable things that people can do to become better that way? I mean, look, I grew up with a mother, a single mother, more or less a single mother, that had me very young and she overcame a lot of odds

different than my obstacles. I mean, she wasn't an athlete, but she just didn't, she never quit, like she was constantly pushing. Just trying to defy the odds, right? Whether it's having a kid at 17 years old in Dallas, Texas, right? With no, obviously she was in a relationship,

but it never met my father. I said, but this was not an ideal situation, but she didn't care. I mean, she just, she was dead set on having me and, and, uh, you know, we grew, grew up poor and I say grew up poor. I mean, we didn't grow up. We, at that time we were very poor. Then she remarried and that relationship wasn't perfect. And, but she's stuck, you know, she just, she's just, she's tough. She has grit. She's overcome a lot. I do think that, that you either,

that's just a part of my DNA, but I've also absorbed a lot of that just by having watched her as I grew up and we grew up together. Right? Keep in mind, my mom was 34 years old when I graduated high school. Wow. Wow. So I think there's a lot of that. I mean, if I look back to my diagnosis and if I look back to the last decade, I attribute

a lot of that to my mother, right? Who overcame a lot of long odds, you know, to build a life for herself and to build a life for me. Would you say, what would be the one thing that people don't know about you? Is there something that you would say? Ugh. I think when people get to know me, I'm a lot goofier than people.

Like, I don't take myself, I take myself seriously, but most of the time I do not take myself very seriously. So it's like a good example, right, is obviously my kids know me, right? They're like, my dad is a goofball. Would they say that about you? Yeah, for sure, for sure. But my, but their friends would be like, oh my God, you know.

And then they get around their friend's father, who's me. And they're like, wow, this, that's not what I expected. Like this guy is a goop. I totally know what you mean. Yeah, I'm way more playful. And you don't take yourself seriously. You're much more like, you have, you're not so serious all the time.

Yeah, and I think that's, you know, there was this, and it is true. I mean, when we trained, and of course back then, you know, when I was winning the tours, there wasn't social media. So people's personalities, let's just say that, I mean, I was doing goofy shit all the time back then. But now if that athlete, you would be capturing that

and sort of putting that out to the world. Whereas nobody had nobody had access to us. Like we were in a hotel or in a team bus or in the race or not available. Right. Right. There was no access. So speaking of children, I got what does she want? You can answer it. We could just edit that part out. All right. Watch this.

OK, yes. What's up? I'm busy right now. Yeah. That's hilarious. Olivia, let me ask you a question. Ask her. Is your dad goofy? On occasion.

On occasion. What would be the one thing that people don't know or would ever think that your dad was like? I'm in the middle of a podcast. So you're actually on the podcast right now and you're on my watch. Yeah, it's slightly awkward. What's the question? What is the one thing that people don't know about your dad? How much you for? All right, I gotta go. I'll call you later.

Keeping that in there. We're keeping that in there. I love you. Love you. Bye. I can't lie. That's 100% keeping that in there. I'm very proud of my fart prowess. It's a thing.

I don't know. She's right. Do you eat a lot of like coniferous vegetables? I don't know. No, I don't. And I just- Do you've got problems? I don't know. I, I don't. And I just... You've got problems? I don't know.

I just know. But anyways, that's funny she said that. It's true. That is true. That's true. That's the big, big keystone. I'm sort of a world champ when it comes to that. Really?

So you're a world champ in a lot of different areas. That's hilarious. I'm glad that Olivia called just in that time. That's the 14-year-old. She's not actually 15-year-old. Wait, how old is Olivia? Not 14. She's not actually 15 year old. Wait, how old is Olivia? 14.

So then, that's so funny. What would your 17 year old say? Same thing? That you're like a champion farter? Yeah, he's 15, almost 16. Oh, he's still 15. He would, yeah, he probably said the same thing. Because you've been, because they, you, this happened like your whole, the downfall, so to speak,

happened like what, 15 years ago, you said? Like 13? 12, 13 years ago. 12, 13. How did it, like, did it soften you? Did you become more playful because you... No, I was always playful before. You were always this way. So how did this, how did what happened to you with the doping change your personality or did it change your personality? Did you become much more, was there more humility because of it or did you lose a lot of friends so then you had to like kind of pivot and... Look, I don't, I think you lose, I certainly know you lose a piece of the following and anybody in that situation would and anybody in that

situation would lose a part of the team. So the parts of the team that were there, because it was their job to be there, right? Whether that's an agent, a business manager, a publicist, whatever. People that have jobs because of this machine, which was me, when that machine goes from 100 miles an hour to zero, it's not a business anymore.

So those people then, so that part of my life went away, which is to be expected, right? I mean, you're gonna lose people like that. So, but people that, I mean, I didn't have anybody who I would have sworn was a great, amazing, true friend that I lost. Like all the people that I loved and I would have called in the darkest moments, they're still there. I mean, they stayed. And so now, you know, there was obviously the situation with Livestrong, which did go away. Right. But you started, can you talk about that a little

bit? Because I mean, you did rate, because of you, there was like a five, was it 500 million, 700 million? What was it? Well, yeah, at the time, 500 million was raised. And it was, who thought of those yellow bands? Nike thought of the yellow wristband. And so, and fun, fun fact, my partner at Next Ventures, Mel Strong, was on, she worked at Nike at the time and was part of that original team that had this crazy idea, which there's still some debate on whose actual idea it was, because it turned out to be an amazing idea. But so just wild to be totally reunited with her and having been her partner the last six years. But yeah, so that, right.

I mean, just answer the, I mean, I started the organization when I was diagnosed. So many years ago. And then obviously, yeah, I mean, that was in 1996. It was fueled by two things. One, I mean, if I was diagnosed in 96, we were officially a 501C3 in 1997. I won the Tour de France in 1999, right?

So that's the first sort of, call it tipping point. Right. And then, but then the organization continued to grow and then the yellow wristband came in 2004, right? We sold 82 million of those in a fairly short amount of time. I used to wear one. Yeah. But that was, you know, if there was, and I considered it a friend, right?

I considered the organization and the movement a friend of mine and that friend went away, right? Because that friend chose to go away. It's too bad because it's a great thing. I mean. Yeah. Well, it's still a thing. Is it though? Like I don't really hear about it or see it

or is it really a thing? Yeah, it is. Yeah. So I mean, obviously you don't have a relationship with Nike of course. No. But yet. I mean, yes and no, I don't. I'm not a sponsored athlete.

Mel is no longer at Nike. Obviously she's full-time. What did she do at Nike when she was at Nike? The better question is what did she not do? Oh really? Okay. She was there almost 20 years and worked her way up. She ran a ton of businesses there. She's a force of nature, but that's a whole separate podcast. Like she's, you should have her on your page. That's actually very interesting. She's a whole separate podcast. You should have her on your page. That's actually very interesting. She's a force of nature.

Does that mean, by the way, Next is only six years old? Because you said she's your partner for the last six years. That's right. So you started Next with Mel. Yep. Okay. And so obviously the relationship with Nike

was pretty good if you became partners with one of the executives there. Yeah, she had decided to leave Nike. But I still have, I mean, I'm still very close to Phil Knight, the CEO of the business. As of nine months ago was Elliot Hill, who before he went back to Nike to take that job, lived in Austin. I grew up in Austin, Texas kid. I consider him a dear friend. So I still, I have a relationship through that, but I don't wear the swoosh.

Well, yeah. And also, but also though, you're not even an athlete, you're not like a professional athlete anyway. Yeah, I mean, you're gonna, yeah. That's not, so then how did it go from, okay, so then that's with Livestrong and all of that, So it wouldn't be... Yeah, I mean, you're gonna... Yeah. That's not... So then how did it go from... Okay, so then that's with Livestrong and all of that, Mel became... So how did you kind of ricochet into the venture area?

Like were you always interested in like CPG brands or business or... I had tended towards consumer brands. Okay. So we're drinking water to water, like that's one for example. Is this one of your brands? Yeah. I love Waterloo actually. It's really good. It's one of my favorite types of... Yeah, this is very good. When do you guys invest? At what stage? Well, these I just did personally before Next Venture. So I did Waterloo before that.

I did athletic brewing before that. I did Honey stinger before that, I did just other. That's just on your own before you even started actual. So we raised fund one, it's technically a 2019 vintage. So we fully deployed the first fund and now almost done raising our second fund. And that is there has been some consumer exposure there, but less and less. I still have a soft spot for it, but that's, there are funds that focus exclusively on consumer and they're great at it.

Right. And not that we wouldn't do consumer, but we just do less now. What do you do more of now? We do more, it's, we define investing in, if you think about health and you think about investing in health and you can look at it in a simple way, really two ways, upstream care, downstream care, right?

So preventative care and more sick care. We will dabble in both of those and I'll give you examples, right? So we did a point of care diagnostics company in Fund One called VitalBio. So lab testing in the doctor's office, very fast results. Sounds an awful lot like another story that this world has heard before, but this one works.

We explore a lot of opportunities. Oh yeah, it sounds very familiar. Yeah, right. So it, without naming any names. Yeah, right. So it, without naming any names, we explore opportunities in and around Medicare, Medicaid, but at the same time we did, outside Inc. we did a really cool, our last investment in Fund One, because you're so passionate about this space, you probably know about it. We were talking about Stacey Sims earlier, she does work with a company called Eternal.

So that was our 21st and last deal out of Fund One. So however you define eternal and optimization and health play, there's a lot of that. So are you like a big, do you like? But let me just finish on eternal. So I mean, the thing I love about eternal, other than just believing that society has fundamentally shifted their views on health.

I do believe that. I believe, and I live that. I love backing exceptional founders and Alex Mather, who started eternal and has been successful many times over, is just a guy you wouldn't bet against. So, what was it? You were going somewhere. No, no, what was it? You were going somewhere?

No, no. I was going to say, like, are you someone who's, like, are you, like, really into, like, longevity and biohacking? Like, do you kind of, like, gravitate to that stuff or? I don't, probably not. Okay. So. I'm not opposed to that, but you were, I mean, I have a gym in my house.

Right. But I don't have a cold plunge. I don't have a sauna yet, although we're getting those this summer. I was gonna say, do you like that kind of stuff? Yeah, I don't like cold, but the sauna I would do every day. So that's, but I'm not,

I don't invest a lot of time in all these things that you read about or see on TikTok or Instagram. Like, do you think a lot of it's just a bunch of nonsense? And be honest. I think lifestyle is the biggest factor, right? Like what would you say the number one core or the keystone habit is for someone to be optimally at their best?

Well, sleep's an obvious answer, but there are people that are just really challenged by sleep and they try different things and different hacks and it's very hard to get that right. But I've been blessed my entire life to be an incredible sleeper. Like I just, I can sleep. Really?

Yeah, I can sleep. I could lay down right here right now and go to sleep. It's so weird. Wow. Yeah, my wife hates me. Yeah, I can sleep. Really? Yeah, I can sleep. I can lay down right here right now and go to sleep. Wow. It's so weird, yeah. My wife hates me. Yeah, I hate you too. And I think, you know, and my diet is not great, but getting better.

What do you eat? What kind of stuff do you eat? I eat whatever I want to eat. Although I remember that, because I went to see Kill, we went to see Kill Tony and you had like four of these like gross, like hot dogs that they had in that room. And probably Diet Coke. Yeah, you have like just like nonsense.

But what I find to be like super ironic. But five years ago, I would have had, you know, ten cocktails. You would. But the interesting thing is like, the people I know who are at like the most elite, elite, high performance people, like truly who are, are like you. They're not so into the longevity and all the biohacking stuff. They're not doing the cold plunges and the saunas and like the glucose monitoring.

And they're not eating like- By the way, I'm not knocking all those things. It's not because, I'm not even saying it as a knock. I'm just saying like, it's just not part of their daily rituals, right? They're like you. They like eat whatever they want. They kind of just-

Look, I mean, take CGMs for example. You just mentioned it, right? The glucose monitor. There's no scenario where I would wear that 365 days a year. There is a very real scenario where I would wear that for three weeks, twice a year. And I would love that. Okay.

So you get in, you know, first time, you're gonna learn a lot. You're gonna learn about your habits and your lifestyle and your diet and how they impact these things. And you're gonna see, you're gonna learn quickly if you're paying attention. And then you're gonna get out. I would get out.

And then, you know, six months later, go back and check in again. And kind of relearn and refresh. I love that, right? But there's no world where that lives in my arm year round. Yeah. Well, also it's for people who are like legitimately who are diabetic.

I mean- Well, that's the difference. That's the difference. But I'm saying all of this stuff has gone just a little bit too far, right? Like I think that where does it end? I think it's become a massive business, right? It's like a trillion dollar business.

Everyone wants it. Could. No, exactly. This is an area that you should really be thinking about. That's why I told you to come with me to the conference tomorrow. Because I feel like there's not like a, I'm not gonna say a sucker is born every day,

but I think that people are chasing youth and people wanna live to 180 and any little thing that you think might, but there's no regulation on anything. It could be all a bunch of snail. A lot of these things really are not moving the needle that much, right? Maybe if you don't have your diet and your exercise

and the basics and the fundamentals down, these things are not gonna move your needle. It's better that people are engaged. Or aware of it. Yeah, but if you could take 170 supplements, but if you're not exercising and moving your body daily, so? Well, I would hope that in conjunction

with the 170 supplements, they would go move a little bit. OK. There's no substitute for that. There's no substitute for that, right? Okay, that's my answer. Physically and also, I think mentally. I know I would go crazy, literally go crazy if I didn't work out. Me too. I don't know what I would be. I'd be bad. Well, because you probably, does, have you found anything besides, does anything besides

cycling get your brain to turn on? No. Right, because it's the endorphins from. I don't know. It's just what it, that's my church. Yeah. Would you like to be alone a lot? I'm obsessed with being alone.

Yeah. I love being alone. Because you spend a lot of time alone. If you're on a bike for hours and hours training a day, right, that's like people like ultra marathoners. I preferred to ride alone now. There are a lot of times I would ride with other people. And if I ride now, I will mostly ride with other people,

but there are plenty of times I get to ride by myself and it's just sacred. I love it. But I also just like being alone. Like I'll give you an example. Like I'm in a, I don't know what the date is. This is probably two weeks from now. We spend the summers in Colorado.

I will, when we take our cars up there. And so I'm going to drive my car there all alone. Straight shot, thousand miles, all alone. And it's, I'm not, Jen, I'm not shitting you. It's like, it is my favorite day of the year. I love it. I'm talking about it right now. I'm like, wow, that's right around the corner.

I love it. So you're married for 17 years. Yeah. Okay, so you spent a lot, like- Haven't been married that long, but we've been, yes. Oh, no, no. But yeah, more or less. You've been together a long, long time.

It's a long time. And what would she say? What would your wife say about you and your, you know, your love for being alone? I think she would agree and she would, she'd support it. Did she like to be alone too? Not as much as you? Probably not as much as, I mean, not as much as me.

I probably like to be alone more than most people. Yeah, I mean, cause you- I've been around so many people my whole life and I'm still around a lot of people. And I don't, when you're younger, I think you're better equipped to just sort of deal with it. As I've gotten older, I now know that I have to stop and I have to carve out time to be by myself

and just reset this whole thing and calm everything down. And I get to, right? I get to create my schedule. And so I will intentionally make sure that I have that time. So how do you spend your time? Like give me that- I can't imagine being miserable being alone. Now there are a lot of people that can't be alone.

And that's fine. That's the way they're wired. And I can't imagine that. So a day in the life, right? Let's just go through a day in the life. A typical day... I get up very early. What time do you get up? I get up, not very early. Today I got up at 5? I mean, I get up, not very early. I mean, I get up today, I got up at 5.30.

Okay, that's very early, by the way. I mean, there are people who get up, but I'm just, I am an early riser, but I'm also guaranteed to be alone. Right, exactly. So I get up early and I have probably a couple of hours where I'm all alone. What do you do? What do I do? I drink coffee, I read the news.

Are you a big reader? I don't read books, but I read, I read, I mean, I read news slash current events. I read stuff relevant to our space and whether it's, I read a lot of newsletters are pretty religious about, reading Axios and Strictly BC and a lot of these, I think you learn, you just gotta keep a pulse on, I think also Fit Insider, I think they do a great job.

That's a good, they do a good job, I agree. Yeah, that's once a week, so you don't have to, but the other ones are daily. But if I subscribe to a newsletter, I read every word. And if I find myself just skipping it or deleting it for a few days in a row, I'll just unsubscribe. Like it's not, it's not sticking with me. Do you read my newsletter?

I will after today. Okay, good. And if you don't like it, you could always just unsubscribe. Yeah. Okay. I mean, I think that's the healthy thing. Okay, go on. So 5.30 to 7.30, you're reading the news and all that stuff? I mean, if my daughter's now out of school,

summer started for her, so I would take her to school at eight. And then I have to work out in the morning because my motivation drops in the afternoon. And then I'll come here to the office and work. So you work out for an hour, you said, in the morning? Yeah, if I ride, nobody rides. I mean, I wouldn't ride for an hour. It's not worth getting dressed for, but I would.

How long would you ride for? Two hours. I could ride for more, but then that's more time. That's too much. So then, okay, and then what? You come to work, you work every day at the office? I work here every day. So do you spend most of your time when you're at the office doing your venture stuff? Most. I spend 90% of my time on Next Ventures. And are you picking the companies that you are interested in? Are people bringing you deals?

All the above. And we either source through, there's obviously inbound, and then there's outbound. We will hunt for deals. Our founders networked, our existing founders have a, we like to think a great network, other VCs have, have bring us deals. So it's all over the place. And then, and then in terms of who decides, it's not me that decides, it's we decide. Right.

So we, me and Mel, who I've talked about and Jordan, who's been on the team for years, where the, it's been on the team for years, it's a three-person team. So we will ultimately decide, not so much if we want to spend time on a deal, because it takes time, you have to decide to diligence a deal, but we collectively, we're the IC, so we will decide if we do the deal. And okay, so then what's WeDo? Because I see outside-

WeDo is the podcast. Okay, it's just just, but do we I see outside... We Do is the podcast. Okay, it's just just... but do we do hard things? Is that like the We Do whatever? Yeah, whatever. It's just the podcast. Yep. Okay, I thought it was going to be like a... there was another... I thought that was an umbrella and then you're going to have other things.

I mean, we do other... we have merch and we have... it could probably be a lot of things. Because I like the name. It's very good. Yeah, it's a cool name. Yeah. Did you think of that name? It could probably be a lot of things. Cause I like the name. It's very good. Yeah, it's a cool name. Did you think of that name? You know, no. I mean, well, the idea behind the name of we do,

like who wants to do crazy hard stuff. Yeah. Or like we do anything. That's why it's a great brand name because you can like add whatever to the end of the sentence. Right? We do podcasts. We do. I have to admit, I got a little lazy with it. I'm not lazy

because we still do the podcast, but like you couldn't. Next requires, and as it should require, 90% of my attention. The podcasts are, for the most part, easy, right? Like take the tour podcast, for example. Yeah. That's, you know, that's, we're talking about the day's action, right? So that's we sit down and we watch the race, we sit down and we talk about it. And that show's huge. So we've sort of been spoiled

by the success of the tour show. That's not like we sat around and are not trying to be creative or entrepreneurial with that brand. So you get the most, you're the most passionate though about Next Ventures, it feels like, right? I'm passionate about both of them, but I think it's, look, we have, I don't know, a hundred LPs, right? So that's, which is great, but what that means is they have trusted us with their hard earned money.

Yeah, 100%. So that's a serious commitment. So that I spend that's why I spend most of my time on that. Were you always interested in business like this when you were like an athlete also? Or did you have to just? Not to this degree. But I mean, a lot of these deals I did you know very early I mean I was the very first in for example. I was the first check into active comm in 1997 Oh, wow, okay So tell people what that is because I don't think a lot of people would know what active well never now

They would I mean active comm is it is an event registry I don't know. I haven't gone and looked in a while if people still register events on active.com. Probably not, but at the time it was a big deal. At the time it was a big deal, right? But I knew the founder and liked him and wanted to support him. But that's my point being that that was a long time ago.

So name other ones that you were like kind of like first in on that were big money makers for you. Direct investments. I mean, I would say athletic brewing is between Waterloo and athletic brewing, those will be. I thought you were involved in like Oura Ring and stuff like that. Oura is a part of our fund. So fund one, we were an early investor in Oura Ring. Okay.

What do you think about wearables? Is that an Oura Ring right there? It's an Oura Ring. Like, do you feel like it's kind of like, I feel there's now backlash a little bit on wearables. No, it's because you read the article in the New York Times last week. I did, but I also know that.

You can't, but yeah, just because. But no, that's not why though, that's not why. But by the way, I think your article is totally fair. Like if, my wife is a good example, like she's a bad sleeper. So now she has a device that's very accurate, that is just confirming daily that you're a bad sleeper. So now she has a device that's very accurate that is just confirming daily that you're a bad sleeper. That you're a bad sleeper, exactly.

So there is a natural sort of just anxiety around that. And you get more anxiety. Like I was- I mean, I don't know. I mean, she goes through phases. She will, she's now wears the ring daily, but she's gone through phases where she's like, all right, I'm sick of this.

I don't want to look at this data anymore. I'm not going to wear it for a while. Well, I also think the anxiety piece is real, right? Like if you're constantly looking to see if I'm sleeping well, not sleeping well, how many steps I'm, all of that, like all that noise is actually causing more issues versus less. By the way, it's not just the farting.

I think you have like burping too. I think you drink too. That's because of the Waterloo. Are you sure? 100%. I think you should get your gut check. Waterloo is very carbonated. Waterloo, I did.

I did a whole thing. Maybe you're allergic to some, maybe you have like a gut. Are you not drinking? I am. Nothing's happening to me. You're going off topic here. This is very carbonated. It is carbonated, but I feel you're having an issue. Like we should probably take a break

because you're having like, okay, well, I'm just making sure. How much time do we have left? Listen, excuse me. I have, I haven't even started all my questions. That was just me like trying to get to know you a little bit. We have to be done in eight minutes. Are you joking me right now? This is a joke. I mean, I didn't even get to all the

This is what we'll do This will be part one Yeah, that's like you're just kind of placating me and then when when when we'll be part two in two thousand twenty thirty four Like I have lots of amazing Yeah, but I mean if you I would I would allow it to happen if you'll do part two in the next six months. OK, I got to leave in 10 minutes. OK, so I want to do a question. OK, let's play the question game.

OK, well, wait, you just kind of like got me off track. I had all these things to ask you. These questions have been amazing. So, OK, well, that's very nice of you. I have a whole lot of other questions and I just lost my page, which is not exactly wonderful. But hold on a second here. Well, wait, I'll just go, okay, so let me go back to, okay.

So, cause I can't be bothered now I'm getting nervous cause I only have seven minutes on the clock with you. And that gets me all like scared here. Okay, so, for Clint. Okay, so how else are you, I want to get to the money part. Cause I think this is what I'm curious. So when this whole thing happened with the doping and you had to give back all these things,

you must have had like a crash of money, like your sponsors were pulling out all these things, but by that point you already made a lot of money, right? So it wasn't like you had to give back. Well, you didn't have to give back money, right? I did have to give back. Well, I heard that, but I didn't know if that was actually true.

You had to actually write checks back to the people. Not so much to sponsors, but there were, I mean, this gets really complicated, but. It's okay. My audience is very smart, Lance. So if you lose a sponsor, you just lose future revenue. Right. So it just stops.

So you could count that as some sort of loss. But there were other, the way that my team had structured most of my bonuses and salary were through insurance policies. Okay, you're right. This is complicated. And so they were either, either they didn't have the budget to fulfill the contract or meet the contract or for whatever reason, they were just engineering it that way. And so when it went down, then the insurance companies came and said,

we want the money back. So yes, I had to pay it back. So did you have, were you in this? Quite a lot of it. How much did you have to give back? A lot. I mean, the, the, the. People like details. This is a thing. You know, tens and lot of it. How much did you have to give back? A lot. People like details.

This is a thing. Tens and tens of millions. More than a hundred million? If you factor the repayments with whatever guaranteed contracts were in place that you could have just assumed you would have fulfilled, it was north of a hundred million bucks. Holy moly.

But hey. That in itself would drive me into a depression. You don't know that it's that number at the time. So you, I didn't know if somebody would have walked up and said, hey, no, you're having a shady day, but by the way, this is exactly what this is gonna cost you. Of course it would have driven me crazy, but it was death by a thousand cuts. And so, but over whatever, I mean, over time, exactly what this is going to cost you. Of course it would have driven me crazy. But

it was death by a thousand cuts. And so, but whatever, I mean, over time I was able to navigate it and I had made great investments and obviously things like Uber. See Uber, that's another one that you were... I had access to Uber through a fund. So I was an LP in lowercase, which if you look at the record books, I mean, it was the most successful venture fund in the history of the world. And, you know, by the grace of God, you know, I had access to that and that changed everything. Everything. Everything.

Right. So you, because of that, it kind of... Saved my family. 100%. No, that's not... I meant that. So, wow. So then, how were you then making money? Like, what was the first way of making money after that?

Wasn't sponsored? Did you give back the money? Of course, these investments. Were you like someone who people like... Were you doing a lot of speaking gigs? Cause people were super curious. No, that dried up. I mean, that's back, you know, I wouldn't say with a vengeance,

but I do a lot of speaking now, but no, that I couldn't, no, there was no speaking gigs. Cause I would think if I was a company, I would, resilience is a major topic, right? You would think that would be... But the resilience story, it's a story now. Because people, and this is the story they like to hear, is, I mean, if it's the first two, three, four, five years, you haven't proven that you've...

Are resilient. Are resilient or have been able to reemerge or reimagine. Right. And so now that's the story that people love to hear. But at the time, I mean, I was, you just had cooties, right. And so they wouldn't. That's true. Right. But also, I think there's also like, you know, there's an accident you want to look like people are curious about like, where someone is. I didn't get any calls from the ex. They didn't care about that, right? I didn't get those calls.

But the resilient piece is massive. I do feel you're having an up, like an uptick right now. I don't know if it's because of social media or what, but I feel there's a lot of like, there's more curiosity about you. Also don't forget our Netflix special that we did together. Our 30 for 30. Oh yeah, I'm so glad you did that for me.

You're welcome. You know, it's interesting. It's a fun data point because it wasn't the Netflix documentary. I know. Just for people to know. So Lance did a 30 for 30. I'm kind of half kidding, but long story short, I should have started the podcast by saying this. Lance and I have a mutual friend, Eric Burns. So shout out to Eric, who introduced us many years ago. I had- Amazing guy. Amazing guy.

Amazing guy. I had a breast cancer charity with my best friend, Nikki Austin, for many years where we auctioned off bachelors and all the money we got for dinner dates and all the money we got we gave to breast cancer. And every year we had a celebrity host or someone to be involved. Eric suggested Lance many years ago to be involved because of his situation with cancer. Long story short, he did it as a favor on like not he didn't want to do it, but he did it as a favor to Eric.

We met briefly at The Thing, 30 for 30. ESPN was doing a story on Lance. They came to the event. They interviewed me, cut to the 30 for 30. Go on. Yeah. Well, it was released as a 30 for 30 on ESPN. But that was, it came about five or six years ago. Five years ago. Yeah, five years ago.

And I didn't know that it was going to be, whether they call it re-released or put up on Netflix, but they did like six months ago. No longer. No, it was less than a year ago. Really? Yes, yes. The Netflix part of the story is new.

But people think it's a new documentary because they didn't watch it on ESPN and they don't watch 30 for 30s. But everybody has Netflix. So, and I only know this because people come up to me every day like, hey, I just watched your new documentary. And you don't, I mean, you're like,

well, I don't take the time to tell them that, but I'm like, oh cool, thanks. But nonetheless, I had the opportunity really to watch people's reaction five years ago and their reaction today. Because they're two really distinct periods of time. And there's no time in the middle. Like people weren't discovering it in the middle.

But when it hit Netflix, a lot more people saw it. And so, but their reaction to the film on Netflix, which is by the way, the film is unchanged. Right, I read out. It's the very same film. The reaction is totally different. What is the reaction? Well, I think it's important to say that when it came out

on ESPN, people were like, eh, they were mixed. Now I don't hear from everybody, but the people, but I do hear from a lot, the people that react to watching it on Netflix, which is a current, is real time, is they're like, wow, that guy's the fucking man. Like it's just a totally different, it's a totally different reaction.

It's cool. I agree with you. And it's funny because I remember watching it five years ago on ESPN, because someone was like, hey, I just saw you. And it's funny because I remember watching it five years ago on ESPN, because someone was like, hey, I just saw you in Lance Armstrong's 30 for 30. I'm like, really? And then now, I know, thank you. I am a star. Thank you for putting me on the map.

It's a symbiotic relationship. And then now, or last six or seven months, whatever, it's been on Netflix. Number one, it did really well on Netflix. It was like in the top 10. Did you not know that? For a long time. So the funny thing is I would get hit up constantly. People are like, why, you know,

I just saw you in Lance Armstrong's thing on Netflix. That's why I even knew it was even on Netflix. And people did have a different, a totally different response. But I feel like people like, you become very likeable recently. I don't know if it's because of it's probably part of that, part of it's social media, part of the podcast. Like, I feel like you've kind of rebranded as...

Time does, I mean, time helps. I think, I think... But it's funny because now we're living in a time of cancel culture more than ever before. I actually completely disagree. Really tell me. I think, without being political, but you can just observe the political landscape. Oh, and the last six months different. But I was one of the first people that America canceled.

Yes. And no matter what you think of the current situation politically, I mean it's, it's, I mean here's a guy who is now president who for two years we were trying to put in jail and people swore that you'd never hear from this guy ever again and now he's president again. So there is clearly some redemption from somebody, right? And so, and there- Talk about resilience, talk about like not staying down. I mean, that's another one. Yeah, I mean-

You're not gonna say a word one way or the other, yes. I mean, I, but I feel like I do think that there is this, this overall sentiment, and whether it's with Donald Trump, or whether it's with me, or whether it's whoever of like, hey, are we really just, are we just gonna, because we tried to erase him, and now the guy's president again. I was convinced we erased him.

He's our president, right? And we erased him, that guy that's cyclist, right? And so he's, I don't know, and now he's, so there's been a, which look, I'm super grateful for, right? I mean, whatever that is, the society has allowed me to, to re-emerge. I could have willed it all. I wanted to Jen, right? I can, we can all will shit. I will, you know, winning the lottery.

I'm not going to win the lottery. There has to be this be this moment or these moments where society says, all right, we'll let you come in for a little bit. Let's see how this, let's see how we feel about this. And then they let you in and then they let you in some more and then all of a sudden, but none of that happens if society doesn't say, okay.

Well, I think people like the human aspect of human, like human aspect of people, right? Like to get into know people in a real way. Social media does that because you show yourself like you, you're doing these, you know, your workouts and you're doing your podcast now and like, my daughter said I fart a lot. Your daughter says you fart all the time and you let me keep it in the podcast, right? You're not like, Oh, we're going to have to. I mean, the only thing better would be if I actually farted on the podcast. Well, listen, we have another minute and a half.

As I'm trying to get you to wrap this up. That could be a great way to wrap it up. Because I'm gonna go play golf. What would you? Well, listen, if you really wanna wrap it up quickly, that would be a great thing. I sent my wife this thing on Instagram the other day because somebody put it up quickly. That would be a great thing. I sent my wife this thing on Instagram the other day because somebody put it up like,

this is the sign of a healthy, couples who fart around each other, that's a sign of a healthy relationship. And I thought that was a senator. I was like, see, honey. And what did she say? Oh yeah, great. No, she, I mean, what did she say?

Well, no, what did she say? She's like, yeah, well, great. Then we must have a really healthy relationship. Yeah, we do have, yeah. Well, I mean, I think, well, listen, I think after time you get comfortable with anybody, right? And like you're, everything just kind of, it's a free for all.

Yeah. How much time do I have with you still? Not much. Well, you tell me, cause I have, should I wrap you right now? Yeah, let's wrap. Yeah, well, this is part one. Do you promise?

I promise. I promise. Because there's so many other things that I want to talk to you about, all these projects that I'm not going to, you know, that I want to know about. We talked about a lot of fun stuff, I thought. We did, but like, this is kind of a short-ish podcast. You told me 45 minutes. I know, but maybe- If you would have said, let me just put it this way. If you would have said, listen,

my shows are three hours, do you know what I would have said, let me just put it this way. If you would have said, listen, my shows are three hours. Do you know what I would have said? No way. Jen, I love you. There is a zero percent chance I'm doing that. But you did Joe Rogan like ten years ago. I know and I'm one of the shortest ones he's ever done. Really? How long was it? It was like low twos. Really? And I asked him before, I was like, wait, how long you do these things for? He's like, ah, three, three and a half hours. I said, Joe, I'm not sitting there for three hours. Yeah. I won't sit anywhere for three hours.

I mean, that's a long time to sit. A long time. Did he, did he ask you anything earth shattering in that two and a half hours? It was a long time ago, it was 10 years ago. I know, but like, how do you ask someone, I mean, I could actually probably do it. Look, Joe's the king.

He's, he's very conversational. He, he doesn't, I mean, he has, I mean, I could actually probably do it. Look, Joe's the king. He's very conversational. He doesn't, I mean, I think Jamie helps him a lot, but I would not like to sit and just chit chat for three hours. I wouldn't like that. He doesn't mind it. Well, also, cause you like to, you probably have ants in your pants.

Like you're not interested in like, you want to go play. I do have ants in my pants. You do, right? Like it's like a lot, which is interesting because you sit on a bike for 12 hours at a time. Which is- You're moving, you're seeing things.

There's tons of energy. That everything is, you're constantly reacting. Like that was one question. Constantly reacting. Okay, and then we can do part two. While you're on this bike doing the Tour de France, like what's going through your head as you're riding? Are you like just super focused? Do you listen to music? Can

you listen to music? No, you can't listen to music. But there's no daydreaming in the Tour de France. Ever. Ever. You've got to be like really alert. Yeah. And think about it. I mean, it's, it's four to seven hours a day. Alone. No, no, no, no, no. You're with 200 guys. No, but like you're alone on the bike thinking.

Yeah, but you're constantly, there's the crowds as well. I mean, you have a million people a day on the side of the road. You see every year somebody jumps out on the road to take a photo or there's a lot of obstacles. And the group is tight and packed together. You're constantly, God forbid the weather turns bad and there's rain and the roads are slick.

No, there's no daydreaming, no listening to music, no zoning out, so to speak. Did you ever get any bad injuries? I don't remember hearing of you ever getting a bad injury. I was lucky there. Right, like you never had like an issue like that. Do people like to change your bikes like they do with the F1, like a wheel here, a wheel there? How often does that happen? It didn't happen very often for us. It didn't. But it's not like Formula One. It's not like

Formula One. But somebody would change your wheel if you got a flat tire. Well, it is. The only way I think of it as Formula One too is very dangerous. Like I said, like you're going so fast and like one bad move and you're dead basically. Like that's scary. I don't know if you're dead. Well, with F1 you could be dead. In cycling you can die, but it's more, it would be more just road rash, broken collarbone.

But look, I mean, people ask me, look, people ask me all the time, wow, what's it like when you crash in the tour? I said, well, let me just make this really easy for you. And we can end on this. Is this guy's a cyclist, right? Or a gal, whoever asks the question. I said, well, here's what you should, here's what you should do just

so you can answer it for yourself. I said, go put your bike clothes on and have your wife or husband or whoever you want to drive the car and have them just drive down the road at 30 miles an hour and jump out of the car. That's what it feels like. That's a really good way to end the podcast. But that's exactly what happens. And nobody would want to feel that way. Nobody could ever jump out of the car. Nobody's that hungry to get the answer to that question, but that is exactly what it feels like. How many times did that happen? A lot. That happens a lot. To you?

Yeah, to everybody. Wow, I know. Even to you, even to you. Okay, fine. I'll let you go. Part one. Okay, so thank you. Thank you. And I appreciate you actually doing this, even though you hate sitting. So this is a big honor. Thank you for sitting. I appreciate it a big honor. Thank you for sitting.

I appreciate it. Thank you. Go follow Lance Armstrong if you haven't already. He's amazing. He's got great workouts and listen to his podcast. Goodbye.