Habits and Hustle - Episode 481: Aliza Kelly: Why Astrology Is Actually a Data-Driven System (And How Accurate It Really Is)

Episode Date: September 2, 2025

Think astrology is just "woo-woo" nonsense? Astrologer Aliza Kelly might change your mind. In this episode of Habits and Hustle, I sit down with Aliza to explore why she considers astrology a sophisticated data system to create incredibly accurate personality profiles and life predictions. We dive into the difference between astrology and psychic readings, why your birth time matters down to the minute, and how Aliza uses charts to help clients optimize their lives. She also reads my kids' charts live on the podcast (with surprisingly accurate results), and explains why men often struggle with astrology. Aliza Kelly is an astrologer, spiritual coach, and author of It's All Magic: 365 Reflections on Astrology, Tarot and Manifestation. She's been practicing astrology for over 12 years and hosts the Horoscope Weekly podcast. Her work focuses on helping people understand themselves through comprehensive astrological systems. What We Discuss:  (02:26) What qualifies someone as a spiritual expert after 12 years of practice  (06:53) The accuracy of astrology vs. people reading into what they want to hear  (28:31) The JP Morgan quote: "Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do"  (29:30) When people get too obsessed with their charts  (31:04) How astrology predicted Aliza's husband compatibility on their second date  (40:15) Why Jennifer doesn't believe in manifestation (and Aliza's response)  (45:50) Which signs actually make the most money  (46:54) Breaking down Donald Trump's chart (and why it's scarily accurate)  …and more! Thank you to our sponsors: Momentous: Shop this link and use code Jen for 20% off Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  TruNiagen: Head over to truniagen.com and use code HUSTLE20 to get $20 off any purchase over $100. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. 99designs by Vista: 99designs.com/jen20  – click "Claim my discount" to get $20 off your first design contest.    Find more from Jen:  Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen   Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Aliza Kelly: Website: https://www.alizakelly.com/  Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/alizakelly/?hl=en 

Hi, guys. It's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. Did you know Americans spend an average of 90% of their time indoors? But did you also know that indoor air can be up to 100 times more polluted than outdoor air? Breathe easy with Air Doctor, the award-winning air purifier that eliminates 99.99% of dangerous contaminants like allergens, viruses, smoke. mold spores, and so much more. Air Doctor was actually voted Best Air Purifier by Newsweek, so it's no surprise that 98% of Air Doctor customers agree. Their homes, airfield cleaner, safer,

and of course, so much healthier. Unlike other air purifiers, Air Doctor captures invisible particles a hundred times smaller than standard HEPA filters. Head to Air Doctorpro.com and use promo code, hustle to get up to $300 off today. Air Doctor comes with a 30-day money-back guarantee, plus a three-year warranty, an $84

value free. So get this exclusive podcast-only offer now at Air Doctorpro.com. That's A-I-R-D-O-C-T-O-R-P-R-O-C-R-P-R-O-C, using promo code hustle. All right, you guys, we're in for a big treat on today's episode. It's going to be a super fun episode. We have Alisa, right? I said it right, thank God. Kelly, who is an astrologer.

Would you say you're also a tarot? I mean, tarot card reader. What do you call yourself? I call myself an astrologer. Okay. And recently I have given myself permission to say spiritual coach, which feels like a big undertaking. coaching. Coach is a hardcore word. I'm scared of the word coach. I don't love the word coach. Maybe we can

like workshop something else. Yeah, because it's an overword, overused term. I can't stand. Everyone's a coach now. Yes, but people also know what it means and signifies. And I do feel like, what are my other options? Like, just say like, I was trying to do like a modern mystic and I was like, that's so cheesy. Yeah, I don't like that. That doesn't hit for me. Did you chat GPT yet? No, no, no. I'm not, I'm not going to ask chat GPT right now. Because I think like, by the way, I love chat GPT. It like gives me so much great information. I actually did this with Peter Crone on the podcast. Remember, he calls himself an architect, like a mind architect and went to like find an, oh, was it Peter? No, it was it. It was Jim Curtis. Do you know Jim Curtis? Oh, so we are like going through all these like synonyms.

But coach, how about expert? Advisor. I like expert. I like expert. That's nice. Advisor maybe feel, I feel like when I get into the advisor, it gets into some, like, dicey territory with, like, psychic advisors and, like, that kind of can open conversations I don't want to have. But expert is nice. Right. Expert is nice. Well, what kind of classifies anybody as a spiritual coach anyway? Like, how do you become a, like, why would you now feel it's okay to call yourself a spiritual coach? Well, it's because I've been doing this work for now 12 years. Okay. So I have, you know, I have, you know, I have sort of like my own tenure, my own time with it. Because the work is not exclusively astrology, because it's not exclusively taro, because it's not exclusively manifestation, it's like sort of a

hybrid of all of these. I'm also very interested in like just people and systems and like wellness and how we can live better lives through these different types of spiritual systems. So trying to sort of figure out like what, that's a mouthful, right? So like what is the best way for me to communicate all the things that I do and feel passionately about and feel sort of like an expert or coach in. So do people come to you, like, how do you, like, are you? Like, do people come to you as like a spiritual coach or advisor and say, listen, do they come with you with a very specific particular problem or is it overall? Like, do you be, are you ever on retainer for people? Or is it just more you read what their charts are saying and you do their tarot cards and then they're on

their way? Like, what's the process? It's sort of all of the above. Okay. I am on retainer with clients that I've been working with now for years and years and years, you know, pre-COVID, you know, like a long time. I've gone, went through a whole global pandemic together. I also occasionally have my books open for one-off sessions. I also make myself available, you know, on the internet through like AMA questions,

through my podcast, Horscope Weekly. I'll do different events or have different. opportunities for people to, like, submit questions for me to answer. So it kind of runs the gamut. You know, it can be the sort of, like, touchpoint one-off where someone has a specific question they want to know. Or it could be really working together to figure out what does it mean to shape and create your life using these different practices. So, like, once you kind of read somebody's chart, does the chart change? Does it, like, ebb and flow? Or is it just, Like once you know your stuff, is that, that, is that all?

It's sort of, it, there's a few different answers. The chart is sort of your blueprint. It is sort of this, you know, this static architecture for who you are. But planets in the sky activate different things in the chart at different times. So there's different cycles that we go through. And based on what cycle one is going through, the chart is going to light up in different ways. There's going to be certain themes. certain narratives that sort of rise to the top of significance and importance in that person's

life. And then there's a whole other theory, which is progressions, which is basically your chart maturing through time. That moves more slowly. That starts to get more interesting as we get older, but that actually does change the chart as we get older and go through time. So like that's why I guess people would kind of constantly come back to you, right, with the same kind of, even though it's a blueprint, like you said, depending on where the planets are, or just for where we are in like life or society, things can have a different effect, right? Yes, yes. And I think that, you know, a lot of the work that we do with astrology, with taro, with manifestation, with magic, with like, with really having agency over your spirituality and figuring out how to work with the universe, how to work with these magical systems, is an opportunity to meet yourself where you are and then also go as deep as you need to go in order to understand yourself better.

I think that astrology is really, you know, all of these. practices, but, you know, my sort of, my core practice is astrology. And it's a pathway into healing and into understanding yourself from a really, really comprehensive point of view. And for me, you know, working with this system for so many years, like, I see how it changes people's lives. And I see how it improves people's lives. It makes them braver. It makes them more confident. It makes them more courageous. Oh, yeah. Like, how accurate is it? I mean, it's as accurate as, it's as accurate as it is. You know, I, do you feel it's, like, so, like, I'll, I'll, I'll explain that, right?

Because I've had my charts read many, many times, right? But you don't know your time of birth. But I don't know my time of birth, which is, by the way, my, hopefully my mom will have called me while we're doing this podcast. This is, like, this is the call heard around the world. This is the most important call of your life. I know. And, like, I really hope that she recognizes and realizes it and doesn't get distracted.

Because I don't, she, and this is what I mean, my mother does. remember exactly the time. So she gave me like an approximation, 7.38 a.m. But, okay, so let's pretend someone has their proper, you know, time and everything else. Like, what I've always noticed is that people read into the information that they're given, how they want to read into it, right? Or they give, you know, so I find like it's all, perception is sometimes reality, right? I guess you're different than a psychic. So let's talk about that. I think that's where it comes. Okay, so what is the difference? Like, a psychic says that they have this idea in their head and they see things that the person's going to experience. And astrology,

you being an astrologist, you actually are using data that's in your numbers, right? Yes. And so my question, I guess, roundabout way of saying, is astrology accurate or on point when to get people the answers they want? Yes. Okay. The sim. Simple answer to that is astrology is incredibly accurate and pointed. And then to answer some of the other questions in there, psychics are have very unique systems to themselves. I am not a psychic. I'm not a practicing psychic. So I can't speak to how people receive those, that intuitive information. There are psychic mediums. There are channelers. There are so many people who can sort of and have prophetic dreams, you know. There's so many. different ways to interact with that extra sensory information, right, and to receive that and to translate it. Where astrologers and psychics overlap is that we're translators. We translate information, but I would say that any storyteller is a translator, right? Any person who's crafting a narrative who's helping someone understand themselves through their system is somehow an interpreter,

or somehow a translator, someone who is using information, whether it is downloaded from the heavens or it is in a birth chart, you know, and using that data. So for my interpretations, I use a date, time, and location of birth, which means I calculate a birth chart. And then based on that birth chart, I receive, I can see everything I need to know about who someone is at different points in their life. And the birth chart, you know, is going to meet you where you are as well in your process. So if you are really interested in what's going on with you romantically, like we can use the birth chart to sort of have that conversation. Can we use my kid, for example? I know his birthday. I've got two kids. But my first kid was born

January 15th, and he's 12 years old. So that's obviously 2013. And he was born around 8, 10 in the morning. Okay. I'll pull that up right now. Have you done your children's charts before? No, I have not. And by the way, I now see how my mom can get stuck because I don't remember my daughter's what time she was born. And what was your son's name? Dylan. Okay. And you said January 15. In 2013, you said? 2015, yeah. 15. Yeah. And what am I talking about? 2013? He's 12. What am I was getting them confused. So they're both my favorite. Ed. There you go. And in California? Yes. In Los Angeles? Cedars Sinai.

Okay. And what time? Can I give you between eight? No, it has to be to the minute. Eight, ten. Okay. Are you sure? I am almost positive.

Like maybe eight twelve. All right. Because it has to be to the minute if you want it to be as accurate as possible. What time is it right now? 112. Okay, hold on a minute. This has to be accurate. I believe that, hold on.

What time is it right now in Monaco? Morocco. God, it's these little details that get me every time. I'm going to call. Oh, perfect. Oh, thank God he's going to answer. Noah? Okay, you're on, you're on speaker on a podcast. This is very important information. Number one, what time exactly was Dylan born? Dylan. Oh, my God, we're terrible parents. You're just not astrologers. I was born at, I think it was like, 15 a.m. on, I think it was Tuesday, January 15th. No. What are you talking about? He's 12. He was born 2013, first of all.

And he was born at 8. No, he said 2015. Did he not say 2015? I think. Oh, it was 2013. Okay. Not 10.15. I said 8.10. I think it was a little later than I made 10. Maybe 10. 15. Okay. How do we find this out? How do we find that out? And what is Sydney's, what is Sydney's time of birth? very important. Sydney was in the afternoon. It was early evening. Oh, my God. I remember being there. That's good. So Dylan was 10.15 or 8.10? You have no idea? No, but I know it's in the morning. And Sydney was, Sydney was in the early evening because we had already

checked in. Okay. Okay. We don't need all. Okay. 10.15 for Dylan. Are you sure it wasn't 8-10? Maybe I didn't have a chance for the epidural. Thank you. So you don't remember if it was 8-10 or 10-15, or you think it's 10-15? No, no. Right now, at this moment, I don't recall. Okay, thank you.

Goodbye. When were you born? Do you know your time? No, I don't remember anymore. I think it's like... Okay. Okay. Thank you.

I got to go. We're on a podcast. I got to go. Bye. So basically, do most people remember the time of... You know, I think that people often have to seek the information. 10.15. Let's go to 10.50. I'm not going to do it. Really? No. Why? Because it's, we don't have an accurate time. We don't know.

Both of you have different times. Two hours apart is a huge difference in astrology. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So I think that it would be, I don't want to share things with you that would be, that wouldn't be, that you're going to pull it up and it would be something else. You know what I mean? I don't want you to, I had the misferral. fortune of thinking I was born at 528 a.m., but I was actually born at 528 p.m. And I'm an astrologer. And when I first got my chart, there were certain things in it that I was like, okay, yeah, I could see that. It doesn't really totally hit. And then maybe six months into my practice, I found out the real time, put it in. And I was like, oh my God, this is so real. This makes so much more sense. So I don't want you to have that experience of being like, yeah, I guess I could like fit that in. and make it work, but it's not really what it's not accurate. Yes. Yes. My reputation is on the line.

Oh, yes. I understand. Wow. That's so interesting. Yeah. So most people, though, I would imagine won't remember and they'll give you some bogus number unless they go and search it. Yes. I mean, I, as you can see, I try to be very thorough in making sure that the time is as accurate as possible. Yes. But, you know, with clients, I've had sessions with them where I've said, I don't think your time is right. Like if this is not hitting for you, the time isn't right. And then they went and got their birth certificate and it wasn't right. Really? Yeah. Because it's, it, sometimes, you know, there's a moment where you're seeing yourself, you're hearing about yourself from the perspective of another person. And that can feel a little jarring. And it could feel a little like,

am I like that? But if it feels like, that doesn't describe me, then something is a miss. That's how much I believe in this work, you know? Yeah. Like, astrology, it hits when it's accurate. And you should feel like you're being seen. You should feel like you are being understood for the first time. Okay, well, that's a great segue into my next question, right? So then when you see all of these clips on Instagram and everywhere else that says the top three signs that will make the most money, the top three signs that are emotionally resilient or whatever they are, you know, and they go number three or the cheapest three signs.

How accurate are those? I, you know, that's not really the way to work with astrology. That's not the best way to engage with it. But I also recognize that it's a great gateway, you know. It's, I think a lot of us get started in our intrigue in astrology through some really sort of like surface level compatibility or like some generic horoscope. And yes, or like a description. It's like, it is fun. And it should be fun.

astrology is fun like period you know and then that becomes sort of a that it plants a seed for curiosity and it invites us to keep going you know when you study this and you really get so embedded and to me i'm very spiritual you know my spirituality is a big part of my practice you realize that we are all sort of pieces of the same disco ball you know we're all little mirrors of the same swirling orb that just have light reflected on them at different moments we're all the same, right? All signs are here to live and experience life just through their particular archetype. So there's no signs that are, you know, better or worse than others. That would be like saying people are better or worse than each other. And that's just not true. That's not the way life is. But let's go with the compatibility because I think that when people are really always so interested in, I am, could you use, and I understand not having the birth date and all that. Is there like truth to let's say the best compatible, like who is the most compatible with a Virgo? Is there who's the most compatible with the Capricorn? So there's a very

easy system for thinking about compatibility. Of course, you're going to look at the whole birth chart. There's different techniques that you use to assess compatibility. I always also say that it's not if you're compatible. It's how you are compatible. But typically what the system is is, is that that earth signs work with other earth signs and also water signs. Fire signs work with other fire signs and air signs. So each sort of, you know, fire and air go together and earth and water go together. So I'm a, Virgo is what? Earth. Earth. What are other Earth signs? Taurus and Capricorn. Yeah. And then the water signs are cancer, Scorpio, and Pisces. So those are who would be good for Virgo? Yes. Just based on your science.

sign. But what I also saw in your chart is that you're an Aquarius moon. So you're a Virgo Sun Aquarius moon. So your moon sign, which is how you feel emotionally, is in an air sign. So it's very intellectual. It's very, it needs information. It's very sort of, you know, it's thinking very, it's very forward thinking. It's trying to think about like how to, I mean, podcasting is so great for Aquarians because we're thinking about the community. We're thinking about how can we make a difference in the world. So on one hand, you have the Suburgo Sun, which is an Earth sign. It's very practical. It's very logical. It's very systematic. And then internally, what actually fuels you is community, conversations, pushing back on things, challenging things, like thinking about

how you can make the world a better place through the conversations and the dialogues that you're having. So then who goes with, so then who would I be compatible with face? Well, we would need I know, I get it. Your Venus is also in a fire sign, right? Your Venus is in Leo. Your mercury is in Libra. So there's, even though you have an earth sign and your Mars is in Gemini. So even though you have a Virgo sun sign, there's a lot of fire and air in your chart. So I, you know, depending on what your rising sign is, like a fire or air sign probably feels really good for you. Which one? What would be a fire air sign? It's the other hand. It's the other. half of the zodiac. So it would be Ares is a fire sign. Gemini is a fire sign. Or Gemini is an air sign, Leo is a fire sign. Libra is a air sign. Sagittarius is a fire sign. Aquarius is an air sign. So it's like the other half of the zodiac. It's the other six signs. Wow. What are you? I'm a Leo. But I'm a Capricorn rising and I'm a Pisces moon. So these are all very, very different energies. and I tap into each of them in a different way in my life.

Wow, it's very complicated. It's very complicated. How long did it take you to become an astrologist? Well, I started studying astrology in 2013, and I actually was just in a conversation with someone this morning about this. It was at the end of 2017 that I got laid off from my last normal person job. What was your normal person job? Well, it was a lot of horrible job because I was not meant to be doing anything.

else other than this. Really? So what were you doing before? Well, I went to school for art and art history. So when I graduated college, I went into the art world and, you know, it was hard to find my footing there, but eventually I did, eventually I got a job that working as a gallerist, I was traveling the world with them. And it, I was so dissatisfied. It was crazy. You know, I was there, I just felt like something was very wrong. I was very fragmented because why was I living the life that I thought I wanted to live and felt so unfulfilled. And it was in that sort of question through that pursuit that I found astrology for myself. And I just went so deep in so fast. And, you know, there's lots of other things that happened. A friend of mine was also sort of on

a spiritual astrology journey. We ended up starting an astrology dating app together, which we ran from 2014 through 2016. In that pursuit, I started working with astrology mentors to learn astrology so that I could do this app. So I found my teachers, Annabelle Gatt and Anne Ortley, and they became my guides through this process. But I was still afraid to be an astrologer because I was afraid I was pigeonholing myself. I was afraid of the stigma around it. I was afraid of not being taken seriously, of not being respected. I was afraid of people judging me. I was a afraid of men saying shitty things to me because I was also like dating at this time and men are horrible about astrology, broadly speaking. Most men don't take it very seriously, right?

Yeah, yeah. They love to mansplain it. Like, it's their favorite thing. Well, it's more of a girl. I have to say, it's more of a girl thing. But that to me is fascinating. Yeah. You know, why? I think that it is because it's an emotional language. And I think it's a language that really demands a level of self-reflection that, unfortunately, a lot of boys and young men are not exposed to when they're kids. And because of that, it becomes a threatening language for them. Because why do they care? So, like, I don't care what other people's, like, belief systems are. I know, I think this is what I think. I think that men find it, like, fun and, you know, kind of quirky and interesting. They want to, like, hear what you have to say.

But I don't think they take it as deep and as seriously as most women do. This is, of course, a broad general thing, but that's what I would say. I would say that it's worse than that. You think so? Yes, I would, as someone who does this and has to deal with it. Well, most of your clients, are they mostly women? Yes. Yes.

Because I will tell you something quite interesting. I have a friend who is kind of very, like, I hate to say the, I don't know what the word is, but his memory is like, I've never seen anything like it. It kind of reminds me of like, you know, that rain man when he dropped all those things on the floor and he can rememorize all of those. This is how my friend is. And he created this very wacky system where, and he's obsessed over it. Like he cannot go anywhere and not ask someone their birthday or talk about it.

But he created this whole system where he'll say, what's your birthday? All I need to know is the day. Like, you're like November 14th, right? And he'll tell you, and then what happens is, like, and he'll say to the other person, which you're a birthday, and they'll say, January 10th. And he'll say, okay, you are. And he uses, like, the cards, like, it's called Crown Line. And he uses the cards to tell if you are compatible with this person romantically, on business, whatever. And he uses all these crazy little, like, things that go in his brain. And he'll be like, okay, so your birthday is November 14th. That's the same

birthday as Mick Jagger and this person and this person, this person, you have this trait, that trait, that trait, that trait. Your friend who you're with, his card is a jack of hearts and a king of clubs. It's not compatible because they're even numbers, your odd numbers, whatever it is. And he will create this whole situation where almost all the time he's been pretty accurate because I thought he was a nut job when he came up to. That's how I met him. I was at dinner at some restaurant with my family and he came up to him. He's like, you have a really nice family. What's your birthday? What's your husband's birthday? What's this birthday? And I, and then, like, I thought he was nuts. And then I became quite good friends with the guy. And I said a lot of

my friends took to him. And he was pretty spot on romantically with work. Like, I will now text him and be like, I don't know, like January 1st, you know, he'll be like terrible, terrible. for you know business could be a good romantic partner or like something like that you know like he'll break it down and so now like companies like vc companies other companies are hiring him so when they're doing when they like are using him on a retainer to say okay we're going to hire joe blow this is his thing is he going to be a good fit is he not going to be a good fit and they're like using him as like or like this company that we're going to acquire the CEO was this or whatever and like they're making like legit business decisions based on, like, birthdays.

Very cool for your friend. I don't think a woman would ever be able to get away with that. So that's why I'm bringing this up. He's a guy, by the way. I know. I don't think that a woman would ever be able to get away with that. So I wonder if it's because he's categorized it in a way that's not under the astrology, you know, window. And he put a different spin on it, which made it much more powerful.

for like a man to understand. Is that possible? Yeah, and he's a man. And on top of that, yes, he is a man. Yeah. But I will tell you, a lot of guys who, who I will tell you, most of my friends who like him are all women. Like my guys I know will like, you know, they'll like listen and they'll like kind of like chuckle, but they don't take him seriously like my, my female friends. My female friends now call him all the time and like want to be involved. But these private equity people are using him. Like not a lot, but like, you know, there's a. few of them. Well, there is a quote that people love on the internet, which is from J.P. Morgan, which is that millionaires don't use astrology. Billionaires do. And people, people really like

this quote. And even though, obviously, you know, in this time of 2025, I think we have more than enough billionaires. Like, I understand why it's an attractive concept because it's true. Like, it is true. You know, it's true that you, that working with, and I can't. can't speak to your friend's system, but working with astrology is an incredible enhancement to your life. It optimizes your life, period. Well, what I also think of it is it's another tool in your toolbox, right? Like, I love, like, the more information that can potentially, like, give me information to be more successful or better or more aligned, why not? Like, I don't see the, there's no harm in it, right? Totally. But like, do people get too stuck on it? Do you ever see that? Like,

becomes like their only source. Yes, but I don't think that's an astrology issue. I think that that's the way that that it's how that person is interacting with anything, you know, when somebody is obsessively like pulling tarot cards around a guy or if they keep, you know, checking their email when they're waiting for, you know, something to come through, like that's more of their own anxiety and their own patterning around how they're processing their world, you know, then it is about astrology itself because astrology is very fluid and it really meets you where you are. So if we are becoming obsessive about, well, I guess two things, if we're becoming obsessive about checking our chart and being like, what's going to happen, what's going to happen,

what's going to happen, like maybe it's good to actually take a step back. Maybe you're not in a good space to work with astrology because that's you just projecting anxiety onto the system. But on the other hand, you know, as another issue, if people double down on their shitty behavior because of astrology, if they're like, well, I'm a Scorpio, well, I'm an adj, that's just how I am, like also a bad use of astrology, right? Astrology is here to help us become the best version of ourselves. Astrology is here to help us get to know ourselves. Okay, I have a question for you because I don't know my birthday, but you know your, I know my birthday. I don't know the time I was born. That's what I met. But you know the time you were born. I do. So let's just

use you as an example. Okay. Are you married? Because you're wearing a ring. I am married. Yes. Okay. So how long have you been married since 2022? But I've been with my partner for eight years. Okay. So when you met your partner, did it make sense? Did it make sense based on his chart and your chart? Yes. It did? Yes. Yes. Oh my God. I love Luke so much. So Luke, we met on Tinder. And he was, And for anyone who's listening, who's like, yeah, Tinder was different then. Like, no, Tinder was disgusting then. Tinder was the hookup app then, just as it is now. Like, nobody, it was, like, disgusting for me to be on Tinder.

And it was disgusting for Loop to be on Tinder. But I found, you know, I saw his profile and I was like, he's either never been on a dating app before because this is so bare bones, or he's a serial killer. And, like, I am going to have to take this risk. Right, right. But quickly found out that he was not, or, you know, prayed that he was not a serial killer. I knew he wasn't a serial killer because he was really curious about astrology. And, I mean, I guess he could have been the zodiac killer now that I think about it. But for me at that moment, it was very disarming because he was one of the first, if not the first man that I had ever started to chat with

who did not think that it was a joke and who actually sort of was curious and intrigued by it rather than just, you know, exoticizing it or using it as some sort of, like, way of making, you know, demeaning me through it in some way, shape, or form. Yeah, like, this is a silly, like, silly, yeah, silly, silly girl. Yeah. How cute. Yeah. Exactly.

Exactly. And so, you know, I got his, he was really interested. He was like, oh, I'm, I think I'm a, I'm an Airy Sun. I'm a Virgo Moon. I'm a Capricorn Rising, I think. Does that make us compatible? It does. And I was like, yeah, it does make us compatible. But I still was like, there's no way that he's actually serious and interested in like having a full-blown conversation about this beyond that. And on our first date, he was. He wanted to understand it. He was interested. He wanted to understand why I liked it and how it worked and what the system was and how I worked with it and what it meant for us. So then our next date, I came back with like our full charts, which are so electric. I mean, the amount. of compatibilities and synchronicities we have in our chart. And I remember going in being like,

if this isn't my husband, like, I don't know if this shit works. Because our charts are so fucking compatible that like it has to be. It has to be. But it's also our second date and I'm coming in being like, this is a lot of pressure on these charts on this moment. And he thought it was so interesting and so cool. And he was fascinated by. What does he do for? For a job. He's a musician. Okay, so he's in the arts also. He's a creative as well. Okay. Have you seen based on your numbers and your birth date, not numbers, based on the time of birth and all that, like when you have a question about your life, like, oh, is my career going to go a certain way? Am I going to be making money? Am I going to be making a lot of money? And when you look at your numbers, has it been accurate? Yes. It has. Yeah. So like, including the stuff that I don't want to be accurate. I was going to say, so like because it's you doing it, right? Like, that was my question. Like, how often does that happen when you're like, oh, shit, this doesn't look really great for what I want to have happen? I mean, you know, we all go, what I love about astrology is that it's cyclical, right? We go through these cycles and we go through these

phases and astrology reminds us that nothing lasts forever, which is good and bad, right? Sometimes we want things to last forever, but they don't. And sometimes we're like, let me get out of this situation and we have an out, right? Yeah. So for example, last year, So I have a daughter. She's 18 months old. So I'm a new mom. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. Oh, my God. That's so cute. Yes, it is so cute. I bet you know what time she was bored. I do. Yes.

But obviously, that was the mission of everyone in the room at the moment of delivery. So I have lots of documentation of it, pictures of the clocks, everything. That's perfect. Yeah. But I, last year when we started introducing solids to her, she started to have some. like reactions to them. She was having some allergy stuff happen. And that was a fear of mine. You know, it was, I don't know why this was a fear of mine, but it was. You know, it was something that I was really scared of navigating allergies with a baby. And lo and behold, she has, she's having F pies, which is like a vomiting reaction to food. She's having hives to peanuts. Like these things are happening. And lo and

behold, in my chart, Saturn, which is the planet of maturity, is on my moon sign. which is about motherhood. And it's, I see very clearly that this transit is taking place in my chart, which is me having to figure out motherhood, you know, me stepping into that role for me, me having to sort of, and Saturn does a lot of hard lessons, right? It's a tough love planet. So it was this sort of like push to really have to be brave and courageous in this particular area of life.

And I knew that at the other side of this transit, when this was over, it was either going to be resolved or it was somehow going to be easier for me. So I use that as sort of my guide and my anchor in this difficult time in our little family unit of figuring out what these allergies were going to be like to know that how I felt in that moment was not going to last forever. And I was going to reach the other side of it and feel better. and both kind of are true. You know, her allergies are managed right now, and they're not necessarily as bad as I thought they were going to be, and I also feel more equipped to deal with them. You know, I have an EpiPen. So, like, I feel more like I have the tools. And Saturn is all about providing you with the tools. So that was something that I was experiencing in real time as I was sort of navigating this very real life, very embodied, very relatable experience of being a mom

and also being an astrologer, working with the system, and sort of guiding myself through it. Yeah, that makes sense. That's good, though. It's good to have that, like, to have that experience, that knowledge and that background, right, to get, maybe, like, hone in on information that you otherwise wouldn't even know, right? Or be, so how long did it take you to become, like, a full-on astrologist? Well, you know, it was this journey, right? This journey of working with the material, keeping it at arm's length, being afraid, sort of doing things that made me adjacent to it, being like, oh, I'm a founder of an app that's astrology,

but I'm not an astrologer, you know? So it's interesting because you kind of like poo-poo men who are like kind of you silly girl and don't take it seriously, but you also had hang-ups about it too. Well, I was a victim of those of that, you know? But even so, like, because you didn't want to like, you felt, well, you said earlier, Like, you kind of felt that you'd be judged.

It sounded kind of wonky. Because I am. Yeah. You know. Yes. I mean, yes. Like, I am. So it was, and I didn't know if I could handle it.

Yeah. No. I totally understand. So does that mean tarot cards aren't as accurate then, of course, as astrology? Terro cards are also accurate. How? But if you're just picking something randomly at a moment time. It's a different system.

You know, it's, I think that, so tarot is a 78 card. system. And, you know, what I love about astrology is that the language for it is so complicated. It's so nuanced. So there's so much to pull from. There's so many interpretations. The permutations of what we can see in a chart are really, like, incalculable, you know? Tarot is 78 cards. So that's the sort of, the language set is working with that number. Right. But there's still infinite number of permutations because you're looking at the cards next to each other and together. And it's another way of telling stories, right? It's another way of being able to sort of use a tool to be able to glean insight and information and wisdom.

And whether you're channeling that wisdom from a higher power, from the universe, or from your higher self or your higher consciousness, or you're using it as a mirror to help you understand what you need to know, it works. It is, it is accurate. I mean, I think that tarot is definitely Definitely, it's an easier system to learn. So because of that, I think that there's a lot more trial and error in it. But every system, you know, there's trial and error. So I love Terro. You like Terro. Okay, let's take a quick break to talk about something that's completely transformed how I approach design for my business. You know that moment when you need a logo or marketing material. or even a complete rebrand, but you have no idea where to start. I used to spend hours just scrolling through portfolios wondering if I'd find someone who actually understood my vision.

That's where 99 designs by Vista completely changed everything for me. What I love about their platform is how they've made working with talented designers from around the world incredibly simple. You have two options. You can run a contest where their entire creative community submits ideas and you pick your favorite, or you can work one-on-one with a designer who is perfectly matched to your project. I've used both approaches, and honestly, the quality has blown me away every single time, from logos to complete branding packages. These designers just get it.

And here's what's really setting them apart. They're with you from pitch to perfection, offering creative support every step of the way. So if you're ready to bring your brand vision to life, head to 99designs.com slash gen 20. That's the number 99designs.com slash gen 20 and click claim my discount to get $20 off your first design contest. Your brand deserves this level of creativity. Trust me. Okay, we have to talk about manifestation. Love manifestation. Okay, so this is like kind of like one of these things. You might not like me very much after what I want to say. That's not true. Well, I don't know. It may very well be true. Yeah. Let me buckle up.

Yeah. Buckle up. I'm not a massive believer in manifestation. I find it to be a little bit, you're going to hate this word, but kind of hokey, pokey, woke, like, just kind of like, I'm a big believer in action. You know, your hard work and action. That's my entire, like, that's my whole philosophy in life. That's how I've gotten anything in life. if I, I don't sit there and just hope something to happen and put a vision board up. Like, I think if you want something, you've got to like work for it and you have to like go out there and, you know, do the things to do the hard things over and over again. So when you say manifestation and the idea of just like hoping or thinking, what is, what else do you think?

Like, what's your whole, what is your philosophy on manifestation? Oh, well, it's not hoping and thinking. I mean, I am in complete agreement with you. Okay. And for any of your listeners who know about astrology, like they know I'm a caper. when rising. So, like, that speaks for itself. Like, I am. Why? What does that mean? I'm very serious. Okay. Okay. Okay. Very serious. I'm like, I work extremely hard. Yeah. And I, you know, I can tell. You don't seem like the, even the way you speak, it doesn't seem like you're just like

this woo-woo type of. Yeah. No, I mean, I, inside it I am. Right. But my perspective on reality, I mean, everything that has, I've been able to create in my life, I've worked really, really. hard to create, you know, really intentionally, lots of struggle, lots of effort. You know, I'm definitely someone who, you know, had a lot of responsibilities way too young in my family. And that made me someone who's like very intense, you know, about really putting the work in. And I believe in in putting the work in. I don't think that anything happens when you're just like passively hoping, hoping things are going to change, you know. You have to make the steps to change them. But manifestation is the intentionality around your action. And

manifestation is being, is sort of creating these, well, I describe manifestation as this feedback loop between what I call the astral realm, which is the realm of hopes and wishes and dreams, and then also the physical world, which is where we do things to make things happen. And I believe that when you work with both of these realms, the realm of hoping and wishing and believing and visualizing and creating and sort of setting yourself up for success through your imagination, through your mind's eye. And then you also are moving forward and you're actually working towards a goal in the physical realm. That is when things really, really happen. I also believe that you need to know what you want in order to make things happen. And that is the work of the work

of my work, you know, knowing who you are, knowing what you care about, knowing what actually drives you forward is a critical piece of making things happen. Because we live in a culture that has very specific standards of success, you know, money or cars or now fame and, you know, like recognition, right? And it's easy to sort of like just think that you might want those things and to chase those things because you think that that is what your soul's work is supposed. Well, I don't think anyone would be thinking that. But if you're thinking that that's what's going to make you happy, let's say that. But that's not what's going to make, you know, that doesn't make everyone happy. That's not fulfilling, right? You have to know why you want the things

that you want in order to actually be able to bring them into your life and find fulfillment from them. So that is the work of manifestation in my practice. Interesting. Okay. So, so I can just like break this down. So it's about envisioning, thinking, knowing what you want and then taking steps to get that. Knowing why you want it. Why you want it. Yeah, knowing why you want it. And from an astrological point of view, that's going to, where we can use the chart to understand why you want it. You know, we can use the chart to figure out like why your soul is craving it, why your soul came into your body in this lifetime, in this particular experience that you're having and is saying, you know, these are the things that you need to do, right? And then when you're,

when you find that fusion between who you are and what you are bringing into your life, like, that's when those green lights start, you know, and that's where things really start clicking, and things are actually like flowing. And you get into that state where you feel like you are in alignment. All right. So I'm going to ask you some like base, like some kind of like pop culturey fun questions and you can, without having the time of birth or whatever, but things like what card is the money card the most? Like what sign or rising, not rising, are you noticing the people who make the most money? Let's go with that and we'll go from there. Okay. Well, let's let me think of how I can answer this as accurately as possible. Because all signs,

deserve to have abundance. I would say that the signs that are most stereotypically associated with money are going to be Taurus and Capricorn. Taurus is they're both earth signs. Taurus is the first earth sign of the zodiac. It's very physical, right? It wants what it wants and it wants to have the things that it wants. And then Capricorn is like the hustler. Capricorn is like the businessman, monopoly man. Like, yeah, yeah. Like it's, you know, but also in the context of like our late stage capital world, you know, it's easy to sort of like typecast Capricorn as being, I mean, Jeff Bezos is a Capricorn, but it's easy to sort of like associate that. Capricorn is also has a lot of spiritual depth to it. But yeah, I mean, Capricorn is sort of thought of as like

the entrepreneur. I should ask you, Donald Trump, right, our president, do you know his chart? Of course. Like the back of my fucking hand. Okay. So based on what you know, tell us, does it, Does it fit him, or does it suit him to a T, that he is the way he is? Yes, Donald Trump is a Gemini son. He is a Leo rising, and he is a Sagittarius Moon. He was also born on an eclipse, on a lunar eclipse. So, yeah, I mean, Donald Trump is definitely the perfect manifestation of his birth chart. He is truly, truly, truly his birth chart to a T.

That doesn't mean that every Gemini Sun, Sagittarius Moon, Leo Rising, is Donald Trump because a chart is nature and nurture, but being born into the circumstances that he was born into and having the chart that he has, it's the most literal chart you can ask for. It's crazy. I mean, because, yeah, Gemini's in general, you know, they love to throw spaghetti at the wall. And it's an air sign known to be the twins. So there's a duality around it. But there's also just sort of, you know, they love to say shit. They love to just, like, like stir the pot and that's kind of what riles them up. Like they enjoy the process of kind of like saying things. Nothing's too serious. We'll see how it lands. Like lighten up. Have a sense of humor.

You know, that's the Gemini motto. Sagittarius moon is the emotional world. It's the opposite sign of Gemini. So it's kind of the big philosopher, the big thinking about things. And it's, it's a storyteller. So this is a chart that gets really electrified through stories, through ideas, through concepts, and one of the reasons I think that he surrounds himself with these sort of like pseudo philosophers is because he really is intrigued by that, that really lights him up. And then last but not least, we have a Leo rising, right? Leo is a fire sign that is known, it's the lion, it's sort of zodiac royalty, right? It is sort of, you know, it sees it's ruled by the sun. So it sees itself as the epicenter of the universe. So a Leo rising means that Donald Trump

is the main character of his reality, like for life. And apparently all of ours, too, because this guy just won't go away. So we're all, it's, we're living in Donald Trump's Leo rising reality. Reality. Yeah. So it's accurate, basically. It's very accurate. How about Elon Musk? Elon's chart, I think that we don't have, like, the most accurate time of birth. I've been given a few different times, but he's a cancer son, and he does have a lot of Gemini in his chart as well. So the cancer son in his chart definitely is like a really great, I mean, that's like a very stereotypical chart of someone who loves to procreate. You got that one, right? Yeah. The Octomomomom also a cancer son. Really? Yeah. So who else is a cancer son? A lot of people who don't have

kids also. You know, there's a lot of people who are not making like billions of children who are cancer sons. But that is, you know, cancer is associated with like motherhood and children. So it is kind of like a funny, a funny astrologer bit for Elon that he is a cancer who loves babies. Wow. Kind of. I mean, I don't know if he loves babies. By the way, found out my kid's birthday is around, is 1015. Do you want to do it now? Sure. Okay. So it's 1015, not like. You know it for a fact. That's what he's, listen, as much as I'm going to know right now.

So 10.15 a.m. 10. 15 a.m. and it's Capricorn, 2013. Yeah, so this very much changes the chart. January. I have January 15, 2013 at 10.15 a.m. Okay. So Dylan is a Capricorn sun, an aries rising. If this is an accurate time, but it's right on an edge. He's a one degree Ares son. So if he was born a little bit earlier, it's going to change. Really? Like a minute earlier?

Yeah. In this case, if it was four minutes earlier. Yeah. So let's table that rising, but I can tell you that he is a Pisces moon. This, based on this, I can tell you that he has a lot of sensitivity in his life, in his personhood. And even though he's a Capricorn rising, he also has his mercury. conjunct his son, you know, it's, we actually have similar charts potentially, but, you know, it's important for him to be taken seriously. It's important for him to be, you know, heard and

respected and recognized and have his opinions, like, valued and validated. But there is an inner world in your son that is very spiritual and very sensitive and really very curious, I would imagine about, like, grandparents and ancestors and, like, where he comes from. And part of that is also trying to figure out, like, what is the sensitivity that I have? He's very sensitive. Yeah, this gentleness within him. He's a very kind boy. Yeah.

He does bullying, like, that, like, really deeply disturbs him and upsets him. It's something that is like, you know, he feels on a really deep level. Wow, that's pretty accurate, actually, even if it was. And it could be more accurate if we know. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. So based on my birthday, I want to, because, how, not like, are we compatible, not like, How are you compatible? Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, actually, there's something interesting

with your charts, which is, as I mentioned, you're an Aquarius moon. His Mars is an Aquarius in his chart. You guys both have like an activist piece of you. And there is a part of you that feels like, you know, the part of you that wants to make the world a better place. Like, that also speaks to him as well. And it does? Yes. I don't see it yet. Well, he's a kid. He's 12. Yes, he is. But the sensitivity, I mean, he's a very liked kid.

Like, everyone loves him because he's very, he feels other people. It's very empathetic is the word I was looking for. Yes. And how are you describing an activist? What is your concept of that? Like, basically wants to change the world for good or wants to, like, speak out when people are being bullied. Yeah. Is that kind of?

Yeah. Or like, or give him for me. kind of like be like a voice of you know I don't know how the way I look for it as an activist someone who goes out there and like protests about something yeah not necessarily that you know you don't need to be like on the front line the picket with you don't need yeah I that's not that's not the way I'm thinking of an activist okay I'm thinking of an activist as someone who wants to do the right thing okay yeah yeah that's him for sure yeah okay I like that I wish I knew my daughters this is so embarrassing. Well, what, do you know, when's her birthday? Her birthday is March 23rd.

So she's in Ares. Yeah, 2015. Cool. Yeah. So we could dabble? I think her birth, and she was born around 536. Okay. I'm not going to put anything in. What's her name? Sydney. And also California. Also L.A. Yeah, L.A., yeah. Santa Monica. And you said March 23rd, and she's the 2000. 15, right? Yes. So I'm not going to put in a birth time, but we can see, okay, different than your son. More tourists in her chart. She is a, she was actually born interestingly not far after a solar eclipse, which is kind of cool. But the main difference with her chart and your son's chart is that she sort of wants, like she's nourished by her comforts. You know, for her, it's like, what's my cozy, like how do I get cozy? How do I feel good? Like I don't want to deal with,

I don't want to have to, I want to like turn my brain off and relax and not have to like think too much about these things in order to find her regulation. Your son can really go into these like emotional spaces. Your daughter is kind of, you know, your daughter is able to, well, she has a temper with the Aries son, of course. But the way that she emotionally regulates is by being like, okay, I just need like my comfort food. I want my TV that I like. I want to just feel like I'm bad. I like want to re-center myself and ground myself with what brings me peace. Are they compatible? Are they compatible? Everyone is compatible. Okay, I know. I'm saying are they compatible based on your chart? Without knowing her rising sign, it's really tricky.

This is like a very rudimentary reading of it. I know, I know. I'm going to get you the proper. Yes, because she could have her moon in, like, the most emotional area of her chart, in which case of what I'm saying, it's like actually kind of like take it all with a grain of salt. Totally. But with a tourist moon, I mean, she loves you. She loves her mommy so much. She does? Yeah. Could have fooled me.

I'm joking. And she loves the stability. She loves stability. Really? Yeah. And Dylan does it? Dylan can hang in, like, more nebulous. Dylan can, you know, he's kind of, he can float.

This is so interesting. Thank you, by the way, for even giving me that. Oh, yes. Well, what do you think? I think you're spot on with Dylan's sensitivity. Sydney also spot, like, there's a very few, there's particular characteristics about Sydney that you didn't say, but that could be because you don't have herself. I don't want to say too much. Why?

Because I don't know her time. Yeah, I know. She is like, like, a force of nature. I don't know if you saw that in there. Well, being born by right next to a solar eclipse in Ares is definitely a force. And she's like competitive and she's like a dancer. And anyway, but that's why I want to get you accuracy because it feels not accurate. I want to know the accuracy, right?

But no, but I actually, I appreciate all of it because I love all this stuff. So like even if it's not like completely spot on, that's my fault. But yes. But I want it like for the record. No, it's my fault. I don't have the right information. I know, probably get it for you. Yes, get it for me.

And then I'm going to do a recap on this. Because with your daughter's chart, like, for one, her being born by a solar eclipse in Ares is absolutely a big deal. Like, it's eclipses, as I mentioned, Donald Trump born by an eclipse. You know, like, eclipses are these dramatic experiences. So when you're born near one or on one, it's like you have that, that sort of high highs and low lows are embedded into your DNA. It's a big deal.

But because we don't know where it is in her chart, like I can't tell you if that shows up in her creativity or if it shows up in her. Of course not. Don't even have to explain yourself. It's my fault. I don't have the, you said to me, I'm not reading your chart, Jennifer, because I don't have the thing. I totally get it.

Did your mom ever call back? No, I keep on looking at my phone because she didn't, unfortunately. But I'm going to call you and I'll let you. You have my number. Will you promise to do it for me? I promise. Okay. Thank you for being on the podcast.

Thank you for having me. You know what? We didn't even do our magic mind shot. I was so like, I was so like interested in starting. I didn't even do it. So normally we do these things when we do this, we do this shot right before we do our podcast because we want to keep our guests and me as focused and as alert as possible. And there's like, it's just all like, as like Ashwaganda, Lions May like very like it's all like for your brain.

I love it. The tropics. And this one has no caffeine. So now this is, they just came out with this caffeine free. And I wanted to actually get your. Take it. And then what you can do is let me know for your next podcast, how alert you are. Oh, yeah.

Yes. Okay. Good. Thank you. Because I'm not going to, I'm scared. Oh, who is she? Yeah. Good, right?

Wow. What a zing? I told you. It's amazing. I wasn't just saying it. By the way, I don't just like yap and promote stuff that's just kind of whatever. It has like a cayenne quality without being cayenne. I don't have my glasses on or else I would tell you every ingredient.

But basically, I know, I know. there's Astrogana in there. I know that there's, I think there's, hold on, turmeric in there. I know that. Lions mane. This one has no caffeine. It's tropical, floral. It's very good. Yeah. I can give you a few to take home. I will. I will take them. They're delicious. This is caffeine free. Take mine as well. All right. So the book is called It's All Magic. 365 reflections on astrology. Territ and tarot or tarot? Terro. Tarot and manifestation by Eliza Kelly. No. Elisa.

Oh, damn. Elisa Kelly. Also, follow her on Instagram. What's your Instagram? Elisa Kelly. Yeah. Easy, okay. Surprise.

You said just like a Beza, but I guess I forgot. See, if I would have taken that magic one, I would have had, like, I would have been way more sharp. But thanks for being on the show. I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye.

Thank you.