Habits and Hustle - Episode 49: Chester Elton – Bestselling Author, Organizational Culture, and Teamwork Expert

Episode Date: February 4, 2020

Chester Elton is a best-selling author, teamwork organizational culture expert, and the co-founder of The Culture Works, a global training company. Chester gives us incredible insight into how to lead with gratitude. His company has conducted breakthrough studies with over 200,000 participants over the past 10 years so his insight is heavily backed up. He breaks what the difference is between a good leader and a great leader, the difference between gratitude and recognition, and so much more. If you’re looking for an episode on leveling up your leadership and enhancing your company culture, this is it.  Youtube Link to This Episode Chester’s New Book: Leading With Gratitude Chester’s Website  ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the Habits and Hustle Podcast. A podcast that uncovers the rituals, unspoken habits, and mindsets of extraordinary people. A podcast powered by Habit Nest. Now here's your host, Jennifer Cohen. Today on Habits and Household, we have a fellow Canadian, which of course I'm thrilled about, given that I'm Canadian.

He is Chester Elton. He is a guru in leadership, a corporate culture expert or authority I should call you. He's been called the Apostle of Appreciation. Got to love that. Yeah, which I don't hate. I love it. I love that.

And he loves orange. Absolutely. You know, it's very obvious by what he's wearing. First of all, what does that mean, Apostle of Appreciation? I was reading that when I was like researching you and I was curious. Well, we love that title. You know, growing up in Canada, you'll appreciate this. I was reading that when I was like researching you and I was curious. Well, we love that title. Growing up in Canada, you'll appreciate this.

When we wrote our book, the carrot principal, the Toronto Globe and Mail, that's the apostles of appreciation. And it just stuck. If you can't grab a title, grab that one. That's a great one. So Globe and Mail for those of you who are not Canadian, that's a big deal. It's a big deal. That's like the New York Times of Canada. I should also say that Chester has written like, it seems like a million best-selling books. A feudal name

are all in. The Carrot Principle, best team wins. And his newest book is called Leaving With Grititude. And we're going to get right into all this stuff. So I guess let's start with what we were talking about earlier. We were saying off camera what the opposite of gratitude is. And yeah, it's a great question, man, because I think people get what gratitude is your grateful for whatever. So as we interviewed a lot of brilliant leaders for this book on how you lead with gratitude, we'd say, well, what's the opposite of gratitude?

And we got some really interesting comments on that, some said, well, in difference, others said, well, entitlement, which was the one I really liked. I think entitlement is a perfect, that's exactly what I would say would be the opposite. Right, because if you're entitled, why would you be grateful? Right. I will tell you a cute story.

So Kent Taylor is one of our business heroes. Now, that name may not ring a bell with you, but I'll let you know Texas Roadhouse restaurants. Yes, I do. With the peanuts on the floor and they've got a great culture and they've got 600 restaurants. Well, he's the founder and the CEO of Texas Roadhouse. And he's a really good guy down home.

And we were interviewing him for the book. And as I said, he said, you can't. you know, you understand gratitude in a very deep sense. What worked you used to describe the opposite of gratitude? And he goes, ah, cheers, I don't know. Being an asshole. Isn't that kind of a true deal? It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's weren't putting the book, we weren't so out. Yeah, I think that the spirit of gratitude is just such a deep way of being.

And I think you appreciate that with a lot of the things that you profess the way you live your life. And it was very interesting to us that when we wrote the carrot principle, we would ask people, and I'd love to ask you this question. What do you think the difference is between recognition and gratitude? Is there a difference? Are they synonyms or are they different?

I think they're synonyms or it depends. It's very contextual. What you are, I know recognition is a very big through line in your book, right? Well, it is. Like the reason we love orange is because of the carrot, right? The carrot principle. Yeah, the carrot principle. Yeah, I got that.

Yeah. I kind of clotted I got that. Yeah. I kind of clotted on to that. Do you think there's a difference between recognition and gratitude? I would say they're very, very similar. When I was saying it's very contextual, because it depends, you want to be able, I guess, not really.

Now I think about it, because if you have gratitude and you're grateful for let's say Things in your life you recognize it like you're having a self-awareness to Recognize it therefore have gratitude for it. Is that not accurate? Is it on my right or my wrong? I don't think there's a wrong answer. I think it's a very personal interpretation My interpretation of it is that gratitude does lead you to recognize and appreciate people. For us, particularly in the context of the care principle,

recognition can be somewhat transactional. You have recognition programs. You have an event. It can be very situational. I give you a plaque. I give you a trophy. I give you the Academy Award. That's recognition. Gratitude to me is much more give you the Academy Award. That's recognition.

Gratitude to me is much more of a way of being. It's deeper. I think they're related. No question. That gratitude can lead you to be more appreciative and more recognition focused. I do think, though, that if you think what comes first, the check another egg, I think gratitude really has to come first before the recognition has any real the and deeper meaning. So because yeah great because I have a I mean do you

find because because you are such a guru in corporate culture and work in leadership what would you say the number one thing that leaders don't do that they should and what is the one thing that they should do? Would you say it's recognition, I would say would be? Well, here's what's really interesting. And I love this question, because for 20 years, Adrian and I have been studying corporate culture and of course culture starts with a leader.

So the reason we did a deep dive on leading with gratitude is we said, well, what's the difference between a good leader and an extraordinary leader? And it was fascinating that it was never their hard skills, right? Right. You had to have hard skills. That was the ticket entry. You had to know how the business ran and how you got things done.

So it was never their hard skills. It was always their soft skills. And number one in their soft skills was how they expressed gratitude, which we found fascinating. And you think of some of the best leaders that you've interviewed or some of the best people you've worked for. I guarantee you that you had a connection to them in that they made you feel valued and appreciated and they were grateful for what you did and how you did. Right.

They recognized it. Exactly. Yeah, they recognized it. I think that's so true when you look into what makes a good corporate culture. Like, let's say, like for you being the expert in this, can you pick a company that we all would be familiar with that does it really well? American Express America. Okay. That interesting. Enough. You think it's kind of big corporate. It's a bank. Ken Shenald. Who we interviewed for the book. Right. who we interviewed for the book. Very much has created this culture of inclusiveness.

He invests in his people and there is very much a spirit of gratitude there. When we interviewed Ken, I call him Ken, because I talked him on the phone. We've had a lot of work with American Express and it really was an honor to interview him because really a trailblazer in so many ways. Being African-American

and the head of this huge company was very inspiring. And then the way he invested in his people just through the various programs, David Kasha, who runs their comp in Van, we've done a lot of work with them. The way he would take his people out to do service projects,

one of the things we talk about is serve together and be appreciative for people that have a lot less. And as you give more of yourself, you're more grateful for what you have. I mean, it's what your parents thought. It's better to give them to receive. Right, exactly. And it's kind of, it's like it becomes cyclical.

But there's two things. Number one, one thing I did see was, I wasn't, I think it's in leading with gratitude. You gave an example about Netflix. Was that in the leading with gratitude? Yeah, about how the CEO of the company was like, they do a lot of strategic inclusiveness. And then employees said something like, asked a question of sums. And from that question, it was how it became that they actually,

oh, right, it was a question like, why movies or TV kind of do execute? Why do you say it? Right, he said, how do you, what the engineer say? It wasn't a guy that was involved in signing the contract, or he goes, you know, I've often wondered, why do we, when we release the TV shows,

why do we do like one a week and meet it out? Or why don't we just release them all at the same time? And the guy said, you know, I don't know. I, it's just the way we've always done it. Right. And they said, well, let's try it. And so, that's how binge TV started. That's right, because some engineer asked the question

and the CEO, which who was a CEO of Netflix? No, his name escapes me at the time too. But basically, like, listen, it was very thoughtful and interested in what his employees were saying. And from that moment on, they released every single episode and that's how binge TV really started, which I found to be, I didn't know that, which I thought was very interesting.

And it kind of started an entire different culture in how we consume entertainment. Exactly. And it was because the, from the top down, like, it, from what looks like to me, a lot of times, corporate culture comes from the top and it trickles down. So whoever your leader leads is how the corporate culture will kind of develop. Well, very insightful. You know, you want to change the culture, change the leader. Right. I mean, whether you're a corporate guru or a sports fan, you know, you change the top and the top. It ripples down. And the reason we are so invested in the whole leadership process,

see, that's Canadian truth, is that the way a leader acts, the values and vision and direction of a leader, gives everyone else permission to act the same way. And so it's so important to get that leadership role right. For me, in business there are very few differentiators left. Technology and tech has brought barriers of entry to business very low. The two differentiators that I believe will always be there is number one leaders. We can never have too many good leaders, right? And secondly is culture.

Because culture is hard to replicate. You can replicate products and services. Culture is hard to replicate. And again, the culture starts at the leader because the way he or she acts gives everyone else permission. You'll see the scandals, you know, whatever company in there are many, right? What happened? The leader came off the rails, right? All of a sudden the leader started cutting corners.

The leader started then cheating on his expensive counter, cheating on his wife, or whatever it might be. Whatever it is. And then all of a sudden, the whole organization will go well. If I want to be him, I guess that's the behavior. That's acceptable. This episode is brought to you by Vonage. Is your business ready to integrate live video chats into your app? The Vonage Video API makes it simple for developers to build custom solutions that make sense

for your business, from providing faster tech support and better customer service to hosting more productive meetings and classes. Live video enhances every conversation. Go live on your terms with Vonage. Learn more at Vonage.com. Vitamin water just dropped a new zero sugar flavor called with love. Get the taste of raspberry and dark chocolate for the all warm, all fuzzy, all self-care, zero self-doubt you. Grab a with love today. Vitamin water zero sugar, nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O. So what's the number one mistake that you see people do then as leaders? And another great question.

And to me, they've got to stay grounded. They've got to, like the net flex CEO did, you've got to stay connected with your people. You've got to continue to walk in their shoes. You've got to continue to see what's going on. And the only way you do that is to be with your people and open your ears and listen. And I honestly believe that the leaders that understand gratitude never get took care of you with themselves. Back to Kench and off. If you were to talk to Kench and all you think, my gosh, with the incredible success that guy has had, how grounded and personal and open is he? He would have town hall meetings with his people. They could ask him anything.

He would respond. He would give them his cell phone number. And they would text him and he would respond. So he never got disconnected. Right. I think a lot of times people tend to lead with fear, right? Because what happens is they think that's going to keep people in line. But then the employee morale is really screwed up. And people, when the employee morale is a problem, people don't do their jobs as well. They're not as interested in, I guess, helping the greater cause, right? Helping the bottom line.

They're all kind of like clocking in when they have to, like at the minute they have to and clocking out the second. And so like I really do believe that, you know, it's very, very important to be able to like, kind of like really be cognizant and aware of how to create and morale and a culture where people are all really in it. Like there's teamwork involved in theirs, right?

And there's people rooting for each other. I know you talk a lot about that as well. But those things are happening. That has to be deliberate, you know? It doesn't just happen. Culture is in everyday event. It's not a year in party. Right? Exactly.

It's been three and a six for days a year. It's a living hell, but you're going to want to hold on to that open bar. Right. It's not the case. We define an all-in culture is where people believe what they do matters and they make a difference. Right. And then I love to add to that. And when they make a difference, somebody noticed it and celebrated it. Right. So if I really believe what I do matters, am I going to go to the extra mile? Absolutely. And when I can connect the dots to what I do every day, makes a difference, that's the sweet spot, right? Now, it's really interesting.

We were having a conversation a little early about generational differences. Yeah, bring that up. And we wrote a wonderful book on what motivates me. And in that book, we have an online assessment where you can rank order what it is in the workplace that are your key passions. What rank order what it is in the workplace that are your key passions. What are you really passionate about in the workplace? Generationally it was interesting how it differed. Well, millennials, which are now the biggest part of the workforce and by 2020 will be 75% of the workforce, right? Top motivators were impact learning and family. So am I making a difference? Can I connect the dots? Right? Is what I do meaningful?

Or huge pieces of where now it is general, right? What were they before if that wasn't it? Well, it was interesting. It was also impact and family expressed in much different ways. For example, for baby boomers, and which is my generation, right? I'm in the tail end of the baby boomers it was all about work You know work it was it wasn't it was what we did and how we did it and how we got promoted Mm-hmm and how we made money to support our families We are a work life and then we are personal life because you could go to work and work would end at five o'clock Because at five o'clock no one could get a hole. Yeah, right. That's right. We have cell phones right now We've got smartphones and you know, it's five o'clock somewhere, right?

So, somebody's gonna expect you to respond. So now with this blur, you don't have a work life and a person like, you have a life that is intertwined. Intimately intertwined, right? 100%. And because there, and businesses so much more global, I mean, you know, you've got guys in Singapore, you've got guys in Hungary, you've got guys in India. And that time shift, I mean, that's what I mean, it's five o'clock somewhere.

Somebody at some point needs you to get in. So now, the meaning of work has become much more important, because I don't have nine to five. I'm 24-seven. So if what I'm doing, if I'm passionate about what I'm doing, and I really believe I'm having an impact and making a difference, that's not a problem. And I can find ways to do that quickly and efficiently with tech that still allows me to have that time for family. So making sense? Absolutely. And the thread that runs through all of that is, when I do something, is there that culture of gratitude? Is there that feedback that keeps my soul engaged and not just my

head? Right. And you are, I understand that. That makes sense to me. But you're a lot of what you say. I feel like everything evolves and more. Like back then, people stayed at one job, right? And they stayed up for 20 years.

Right. 30 years, 40 years. 50 years, whatever it is, I think it's, well, we all know, people very much, they switch jobs very, very quickly. And why do they do that, do you think? I was gonna say, a lot of it's because they don't feel like they're making a difference at the current place that they're working.

They don't feel like recognized, they don't feel recognition, they don't feel connected, they don't feel impactful. And the companies, it's interesting that I've seen just friends of mine working at who feel like they actually matter, they don't have that turnover. Right, right, they just don't have that turnover. So one of the things you ask me is,

what are things that leaders don't do? And it's proved out in our book is that there are leaders that lead with fear. And they don't think they're leading with fear. They just think they're being very candid, open and honest, and they're just being tough. Get, get, get her done managers. Right. And meanwhile, leaving this carnage of fear for everyone and boys in their way, another one was a compensation. Just get the compensation right. If we get the compensation right, carnage of fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear,

fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear, fear mistakes. I mean, if you create a culture that's simply about money, that's a mercenary culture. And now there may be some roles where that's what you want. Right. You want killers, right? Generally speaking though, if you can keep that continuity and keep people engaged, and that's where that I feel valued and appreciated in my job. One of the number one reasons this is the

society for human resource management, constantly surveys. Why do people leave their jobs? Money is not number one. I was going to say, it's funny. People think that money is the number one primary reason someone stays at a job, but it's actually quite far down the list. It is. Yeah.

Feeling valued and appreciated is number one. What's number two? 79%. I don't know. You can track a number. I don't know. Number one, that you're running. Okay, that's fair.

I'll tell you what's happening with millennials, one of the top reasons they're leaving jobs is nowhere to grow. And that's Miss Antirpore to this, oh, he wants to be, or she wants to be the CEO in three months. No, they want to feel like they're growing as people and developing. One of the really interesting insights I had, we were at a conference. And the question went out to the group because I always liked to attend the other sessions as well, right? What can we learn? And it said,

what do you expect from your manager? And one of the most impactful statements was this young gentleman said, I don't expect my manager just to make me a better worker and a more efficient worker. I expect them to help me become a better person. That's a huge shift from my generation. My generation once you leave your person life at the door it's called work for a reason we're here to work to get her done and get out. It's not the same type of it. It's not an analogy. That compact has changed. I expect my job not only to help me pay my bills I expect my job to help me grow and develop as a person. And now millennials which are very mission driven

and very impact driven, if I get to the point where I don't feel like I'm growing and developing and I've lost my opportunity to make an impact, I'm open to move. Then how do you do that? Let's get some practical ways to do this. How does someone build an environment that's very much inclusive that's

about team building and basically how we're talking about? What's something that someone can do if they're a leader listening to this? Yeah, really insightful question. You've clearly done this for a while. Not really, but thank you. I appreciate it. You know, it comes back to a lot of the things

we've covered briefly, and that is listening. They need to be good listeners. And the biggest reason that we are one of the big myths that people give as to why they don't lead with gratitude, why they're not more inclusive is, I just don't have time. We get a lot of things going. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, the difference between good leaders and extraordinary leaders is they find the time. Right. You can't make time. Everybody gets 24 hours, right? They find the time. They find time to engage one-on-one. They find time to manage to the one. They find time to ask the questions about where do you want to be two to three years from

now? What do you think your best contributions are to the team, right? What have you seen that we're doing that we could do better? And instead of sort of these annual reviews which everyone hates, they were doing these regular check-ins. And again, not a huge time suck, 10, 15 minutes, just check-in in with you. Is it done through when it's a big company and as people get more successful the company's obviously growing more employees How do you do that do do a survey once every quarter do you do actual face-to-face meetings? I mean, well, how does it? What's the absolutely all the about absolutely? You know, you'll have your you're in an employee engagement surveys

You'll have your your check ins or your you know Monkey surveys, you know, monkey, whatever. Survey, monkey. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And over and above all of that, what's really important is that one-on-one. It absolutely is. And as the organization gets bigger, again, remember, the way the leader acts gives everyone permission act the same way. It's the leaders doing it with his or her direct reports. Then she can do it as far as the line managers and the supervisors.

It's got to cascade through the organization. Yeah. You're never going to be able to keep track of 10,000 people. Right. You can break that up in a smaller group, which is what an organization is. And so the biggest impact on the engagement score of any individual employee, the number one impact is the relationship

with the immediate supervisor. I may love and respect the CEO like crazy. If I hate my immediate supervisor, I'm still leaving. 100% I agree with that. And also I feel like more and more, people are not even working in the office though. They're more working from wherever, like now with technology,

you can be in like Zimbabwe and be connected, right? And that's why I think video conferencing is really helpful. I mean, on the phone is great. You know, so email, that's the low part of the food chain, right? Texting gets a little higher, right? Right. Video conferencing, I'm a big fan, you know, and because you can see, even if you're on a conference call,

if all you can hear is voices, I guarantee you half the people are checking their email or they're checking the scores or my mother's a test. Right, that's 100% like invested in that, right? If you're seeing people face to face, it's a lot better. Now, the best by far is can we breathe the same error. Now I understand if you're located in London and you've got somebody in Singapore, that's going to be a rare occurrence. The point is that you've got to be disciplined about finding those points at contact.

Now, I'm going to give you a suggestion that we give to a lot of leaders. We've started to do a lot of executive coaching, which I love because it's the one-on-one. And one of the things that I continue to have the executives I coached to is really old school. It's really retro and yet it's hugely impactful. And I get them to write handwritten notes. I agree. You know what? That's a lost. It's a lost art. It's a lost art. And I will tell you, when people write even a thank you letter, a note to me, it's so much more impactful than just getting an email because I feel like that's like the,

is it kind of like the lazy man way of doing things? Like it really does stand out when you actually get that handwritten note. Yeah, and see, the thing is, we talk about you want to be timely. Right. You know, when you express your gratitude, like gratitude doesn't keep you think,

okay, it's like a banana, right? It'll keep it, it'll keep it, and finally you gotta make banana bread, because it's all mushy. You think you'll remember and you won't. The wonderful thing about texting and emails is it can be very timely, you can do it immediately. The better thing about a handwritten note,

and I ask audiences all the time when we present, how many of you ever see the handwritten note? How many of you kept it? Why don't you keep that and you didn't keep the blast email like why didn't you print that thing out right and the answer is always the same because it was personal somebody took the time it's a work of the hand they've actually had to put a stamp on it put it in the mail exactly and I'll tell you the impact is is it's one of those moments where whenever it shows up it's welcome yeah whenever it shows up, it's welcome. Yeah. Whenever it shows up. And isn't it amazing? You're going to say, well, I, because I'm

a thank you no writing lunatic, right? Right. And people say, oh, your card, it just came at such a perfect moment. Well, I put it in the mail. I wasn't sure it was going to get their period. Right, right, right. But that's a perfect way of showing,

to make you someone feel recognized and show that you're grateful. And it makes them feel special. I think feeling special is really kind of like a crux of all of this, right? People want to feel like they matter. My voice has heard what I did mattered and somebody noticed it and celebrated it. And it will tell you, it's a great practice in your personal life. So at one point, I had two of my sons were off to school out in the West.

You know, we lived just outside New York City, right? Summit New Jersey. Love Summit, right? And I would, weekly, I would write them a letter from their dad and I'd pop it in the mail. And then once every two or three months, they'd write me back. You know, the cadence wasn't one to one. I'll tell you though, I got this beautiful letter from my son, Brendan. And he said, Dad, I know I don't write yours often as I should. I just want to let you know how much I appreciate those letters that come in the mail. Whenever I see that orange envelope, of course, orange, right? He says, I know it's a letter from my dad. And here's what he said that I thought was so wonderful.

He said, you know, Dad, I don't always read it right away. Sometimes I'll save it for what I'm having a tough day. And then I'll read it, because I know after I read a letter for my dad, I'll feel better by myself. Wow. A little wonderful moment. That's really nice. That doesn't happen in a text.

It doesn't happen in an email. And I know that he saves those and puts them in his journal. Because that one that he wrote me, I put in my journal. Right, it lists it's an emotion, right? Absolutely. That's a beautiful thing to hear from your son. Wendy's is open till midnight or later, so you can give in to the craving and go night mode.

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Open till midnight or later. All right, see ya. Mm. Later. Because spending US Wendy's hours may vary. I feel like with, but if people are working away from the office though, how could you build a strong corporate culture because you're just, because you culture because you're disengaged,

right? It's all about frequency, right? And so we've talked about this as we coach our organization. Is it a problem when people do that? When you don't have conversations, when there's radio silence, of course you're discusing. Right. Think about your personal heart, basically. Yes, somebody that you really care about doesn't talk to you for two or three months, well, what's the message? Why don't matter? You know, it's the same in corporate business. So, and this is what American Express does brilliantly. You know, they have town hall meetings that are scheduled on a regular basis. People tune in. There's follow up. There's, you know, at the supervisory level, there's the check-ins, right? There's the the the the survey monkeys,

the annual review. There are touches where they feel connected all the time and then up to the individual supervisors to make sure they're staying in touch. I'll give you another incredibly impactful, best practice. It's our friend, Kent Taylor, from Texas Roadhouse. So they've got as part of their corporate mission, is to take care of their people. And so they have this Armadillo, a cowboy armadillo of the Sermasca, Andy the Armadillo. Well they have what's called Andy's Outreach. So you've got a lot of people that are hourly wage folks.

And then they found that while they were involved in a lot of charities and doing a lot of good, they had some of their people that would come up with an unexpected expense, their car would break down. It would be a harsh winter and their heating bills would go up. They'd have an unexpected medical expense. So what they did is they had this matching fund with their employees. You can do for 50 cents a paycheck and the company will match it and puts it in the and the outreach fund.

And then if you have an unexpected expense, you can submit to the employee panel, I'm a waitress. You know, I'm a single mom three kids. My car broke down. It's an unexpected expense. I can't afford to get my car fixed. The bill is $800. And the employee fund pays the bill. Well, think about that. You know, the t-shirts, I heart ticks is wrote out. They mean it. No, that's great. I didn't know that they did that. That know the t-shirts, I hear Texas Road House. They mean it. That's great. I didn't know that they did that. That's a great way to show appreciation and give back to your employees. And to me, it's beyond that event, right? Because every time that 50 cents comes out of your paycheck, every time you see a coworker that has benefited from, how does that

make you feel about the logo, about the mission, about the vision? Right. It's impactful. You're making a difference. Exactly. It's all the most... Who wants to create those forever memories for those guests that come into their restaurant to celebrate an anniversary or a birthday or a gram and gram per hour in time? They get it. And you know of their 600 restaurants and you might know a little bit about the restaurant, it's a tough business. Yeah. And they open and close restaurants all the time.

Do you know how many Texas Roadhouse restaurants have actually had to close? How many? That's it. Three restaurants. Out of 600. And that's a tough business. It is a tough business. And why does it work?

You talk to Kent Taylor and we get to all about our people. They do an annual event. You would love it. They do an annual event. They bring in all the restaurant managers and the assistant managers and their wives and any nursing kids, like the kids are too little to leave behind.

And they block out like six days, they go to these incredible resorts, they rent out the resort, they have incredible rock bands on the beach every night. And it's all about celebrating your hard work. Cause if you run a restaurant it's 80 hours a week, trust me. And I think what I think what you're also saying is and I read this in your book too, that when when companies include the family as a part of it,

it's a really one too right? It's it really increased its employee morale. And the other thing I was going to say earlier, and I didn't say it, I forgot, but something about, if you say thank you to someone who works for you, it's the same as saying I love you in a relationship. Exactly. Yeah. And this, another thing, what are leaders not do that they should?

And it's the frequency of gratitude. So people say, I'll give you a great example. We're coaching this guy, very English, I love them. And they said, look, you get it. I want you to do something. I want you to write a handwritten note to your three direct reports. Because you're working hard, it goes great. I'll do it. It's a great. So I checked in with them. I said, no, have you done it? He said, yes. And I was so surprised at how much I personally enjoyed the process of writing it. I said, great. So then I checked them two weeks later, I said, did they get the notes?

And he goes, yes, they did. I said, was it appreciated? It said, yes, it was. I said, what was their reaction? And in a very English way, he said, if I were to summon up in just a few words, I think the words I would use would be, yes, they would be, shotgun awe. So it was really, now, they would be, shokin' off. Yeah.

So it was brilliant. Now, where we missed it, and this is where a lot of leaders go wrong, he says, and then I realized how impactful it was, and how I should reserve it for those moments that really matter. I went, no, that's completely wrong. You should be right in the memory, you know what?

And that's where it comes to frequency. If you're madly in love, can you hear, I love you too much. Absolutely not. If it's heartfelt and it's meaningful, right? I love you in your personal life is thank you in the workplace. And if you do it right, it has to be specific.

It has to be, you know, it can't be just great job. Right. And you're a good guy. I saw that in a video. Specificity is important. Very specific and right away. It can't be like, can't wait till like the year is over and be like, oh, by the way, thank you. Right.

Right. Do it now. Do it often, be specific, be sincere is going to our roadmap. I love that. Say that again. Do it. Do it now. Do it often.

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And your feet will thank you. And guess what, they also have a great philanthropic mission. For every pair of bomba socks you purchase, bomba stonates a pair to someone in need. So buy bombas, B-O-M-B-A-S.com, slash habits and hustle for 20% off. How many times have you ever heard any of your friends, anybody that you've ever heard, at the end of the day say,

man, I could not get anything done today. Seriously, there was so much appreciation and recognition. There was like cakes and parties and notes. You know, they got to stop it. It's too much. I'm getting too much. No one says that. Nobody says that.

You know, you take those employee surveys of, you know, the culture, one of the lowest scores almost always is, do I feel appreciative for my work? Yeah, no. Yeah, no. Absolutely. You're getting too much recognition. And yet, leaders will say, oh yeah, well, you do too much. It becomes tried to go, yeah, try doing getting too much recognition. And yet, leaders will say, oh, yeah, well, you do too much.

It becomes try to go, yeah, try doing it too much. Yeah, I would love for you to try doing it too much. That's a great point. Let's talk about the five-to-un ratio then. Right. I love that one. Yeah, I like that too. I highlighted that one. People, I kind of feel like it's a carrot and stick kind of.

Basically, it doesn't mean you give a carrot five times and then you can do a stick once. Is that basically the stuff that? Well, here's the premise and it's really interesting. So we discovered this incredible manager in Dallas, Texas, with the Avis budget rental car, Carlos Aguilar, love Carlos. Top of the charts and everything, you know, engagement, customer loyalty, profitability, it's all there. So we interviewed him and we said, well, engagement, customer loyalty, profitability, it's all there. And so we interviewed him and we said,

well, Carlos, what do you do to keep your people so engaged because you're playing engagement, your turnover is so low, it starts listing all this stuff. Said, look, give me one, give me your best, best practice. He said, oh, no question, 10 pennies. This is great for viewers, 10 pennies. So what did you do with 10 pennies?

He said, if I put 10 pennies in my left pocket every day. And I said a goal to have 10 positive interactions with my people every day Now I challenge you to do that 10 is a lot and the way he keeps track He moves the penny from his left pocket to his right thing you do with coins C shells I don't care. Okay, that's not it right. Well see what was what was really interesting is he didn't know this Harvard business school Had done a study of course they had you know as to a positive culture what the benefits are and they're enormous. And what the ratio of positive to negative interactions is in a positive culture. And they came to the conclusion. Actually, it's 5.61 to 1. So you can round it up to 6,

but it was 5 to 1. Well, here's what's really interesting, particularly about new leaders. You want to justify that you got the promotion, right? So what are you looking for? You're looking for problems to solve, because I'm the problem solver. That's why you promoted me, right? I'm going to make things better. Well, if all you're looking for is problems, all you're going to see is problems, right? So you're criticizing people everywhere you go.

Well, who wants that leader to show up? So Carlos said, look, to remind myself that there's a lot of little things going well every day. I put 10 pennies in my life pocket. And I make sure that we call those out. Now, he can't always be with his people, but he's texting, he's calling, he's writing notes. He's having team meetings, he's calling people out.

Well, let me ask you something. When he shows up at the Kiosk at the Dallas Airport, are they happy to see you? Probably. Of course. Now, when things go wrong, he's got to coach him up. Are they going to listen? Yes.

Because he's got that reserve of goodwill. He's not just here to tear everybody down. He's here to build everybody up. And he assumes positive intent. In other words, his assumption is people are coming to work to do a good job and along the way they're going to make mistakes. And that's okay.

Making correct mistakes. So you're not grateful for all the things you did before. Right. So, reserving positive intent. That's a good one. Assume positive intent. API. Assume that people are working on.

Assume positive. Yeah. Assume positive intent. A. Bershulie who turned around best by. He says, I may be naive. I just assume that people come to work and they want to do a good job. And along the way, they're going to make mistakes.

And you know what, that's okay. And assuming that people are trying hard is a much better way to manage. And he says, and oh, by the way, a lot better way to live. Yeah, I mean, so having like kind of a positive outlook on, I guess it's been more optimistic than pessimistic with your employees or with your- I think it goes even deeper than that.

It's creating the story where the people that make mistakes aren't villains and you're not the victim. We had a wonderful story in our book where, you know, an executive coach that we got to see, she'd run a big organization and she's an executive person. And she says, I travel a lot. And I'm in the expert travel line. You know, I've got clear, I've got global entry,

I've got TSA, right? Exactly, exactly. So I get in the line and all of a sudden there's this woman with a stroller and a baby in front of me and I'm like, ah, she is not an expert traveler. Right. And she said, you know, she was the villain, I I'm like, she is not an expert traveler. Right. And she said, you know, she was the villain. I was the victim.

She's taking up all my time. And then she said something happened that changed everything. She was struggling with all the diaper bags and everything in the stroller. And she had this precious little baby in her arms. And then because she couldn't do anything, she put the baby down on the dirty floor. And she said, at that moment being a mother, everything changed. And I said, she's not a villain. I'm not the victim. She's just a mom that needs help.

She says, I left my bags. I walked up and I said, can I help? And I picked her baby up and I held her baby. Why she went through the line? And she said, you know, in that moment, when you feel like the victim, pause, gather in a little more information, and create a different story. It's not a woman who's stupid who got in the wrong line. It's a herried mother trying to get to wherever she's going to go, and I'm not the victim I can help out. And she said at that moment, everything changed for me. I assume it's a better story. When somebody cuts you off on the highway and they're screaming and they're like, you know what, I don't know what that guy just came from. I don't know if he's rushing to the hospital because his wife's sick.

I don't know if he's got a troubled kid, he's got a bail on it. I mean, there's a million reasons why people get upset on the highway. And it's easy to villainize people when you just say, you know what, guys, having a bad day, I'm gonna give him a pass. It's a good point to pause and then try to have perspective.

It's hard though, like in the moments. It's kind of good news. It's always easier like after the fact to think that way. You know how you get better at it? How practice. Exactly. I know what it is. I know that better than you.

Exactly, I'm all about that. I think building any, you could become anything you want if you practice at it. That's my entire philosophy in life, right? I mean, so if you're not good with gratitude, practice gratitude, and you'll get better, that you did say something though, that there's brains, people who have more gratitude, I guess more naturally, there's more gray matter in their brain. So, I mean, if you, you're saying then basically there is a part of it is, is kind of innate

like a genetic in a way, right? For some people, you know, some people grow up in ridiculously happy households where there's a lot of gratitude. And I'm one of those guys, you know. Yeah, I can tell. Other or interested in it, exactly. You know, with others, like anything, it just takes practice. You know, it's a muscle that needs to be exercised.

You know, our friend Amir, he's got gratitude journals. Yeah. I mean, and that's a wonderful practice. We talk about that in our book. I know. We're going to talk about, let's talk about it right now. You got one of the things you have a checklist of the seven things that you do every day, right?

You pray and meditate. You read your scriptures. Right. You take vitamins, which vitamins you take. A whole bunch. My wife just keeps giving them to me, and I just keep taking them. A protein shake or a healthy breakfast,

what's up, do you wake up in the morning? You know, because I travel, it really does vary. I try to get up at six. I'm a five o'clock guy. And you exercise, you write down things you're grateful for every day, and you write in your grateful journal. So, how important do you think they're grateful the gratitude journal is?

You know, I think it's just so key. Not only do I, and I do all, I try to do that all first thing in the morning, right? Not only do I write down three things in my business journal, my wife and I have a wonderful practice. And so, no matter where I am, you can text, you know, you know, all the time changes. And we just say, what are your three? And if we can get on the phone, say, what are the three things you're grateful for today? So you know I have a practice where you both do the gratitude.

You say three things with each other. With each other. That's a nice thing. So it's not necessarily about each other, not three things about you. Exactly. But it's three things that you're grateful for, but you guys say it to each other. Yeah, it was what happened in your day. What were you grateful for today? You know, and for me, sometimes it's a little too. What's that? It gives you an accountability that you know that you're

going to be doing that. So you have someone else that's accountable for that yet, for you to do that. Right. I think people should like listen to that because a lot of times things go amiss and they're like, oh, shit, I didn't do it today because, because you know people like it's hard for people to start building sometimes positive habits and having an accountability partner is a very good way to do that. Well, and then only then it gives me a little insight into her day. And a little insight into my day. See how I think versus you. Well, and then you know, we're very spiritual in our family.

And so as we finish up, it's really interesting. We'll say, and did you see the hand of God in your day today? Is there something that was an emotional connection that occurred today that you felt that was the hand of God in my life? And you know what? I love that. My wife added that. Right.

You know, then I even get dressed in the morning and again, it's attributed to the fact that I married above my station. You're right. My wife is remarkable. You pay great. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Excuse the pun. So how did you become this expert in corporate culture?

Like, what was your story that made you create this as your calling or your life? Well, I love it. You say it's a calling because it really has become that. There are a lot of factors. And I'll try to make this as quick as I can more than anything I grew up in a ridiculously happy household My my mom and dad were married for 65 years and it was one of the greatest romance stories ever and my dad was You talk about the leader gives your permission

My dad role modeled to me the the perfect father and the perfect husband. Was he perfect? No. He modeled the perfect, he used to say, look, if you're looking for a perfect company, you're going to be out of luck because they're going to be looking for perfect employees and you're not going to qualify. Anyway, I will share this with you. My mother worked, she was a fashion model, she had her own little modeling agency, she was She was wonderful. She could play the piano and my dad was saying they were quite the couple.

Well, anytime she would pass by or come to the room and I was with my dad, he would say these three things. He'd not say, you'd say, Chess, look at your mom. Isn't she beautiful? Isn't she talented? Aren't we lucky? Every time he did. He did, and I've four older brothers, and you know what, we all have ridiculously happy marriages. You know why? Because whenever we think about our wives, we think three things.

Isn't she beautiful? Isn't she talented? Aren't we lucky? So you had a good role model. Absolutely. Now, in the workplace, you know, I've had a lot of different jobs as many people have, and most of them in sales. So I was always very reward-driven, right?

Get the plug and make the sale close to deal. And it occurred to me along the way, and it was an awakening for me, that I never wanted to sell anybody anything they didn't really need. I really wanted to make a difference with my products and services. So I took a job with a company called OC Tanner, and we were in the reward and recognition business.

Cara Principal, we wrote, Adrien and Wem, we both worked for that company. And it was a wonderful insight into when people felt valued and appreciated. And there was a ceremony that those symbols and those moments really were impactful on people. Well, I was selling these programs, right? So I called our CEO, Kent Murack, at the time, and I said, Kent, you know, if we were the thought leaders, you would make my job a lot easier.

And thought leaders write and no one's written a definitive book on employee recognition. Write the definitive book and then people will call me and make my job easier. And he goes, that's a great idea, write the book. I said, yeah, no, you didn't hear me, right? You should write the book I should benefit. And you know what he said, it was one of those moments, he said, you know, I changed your, you're a smart guy, figuring it out. You can do both. I said, you can be crushing quotas. You're a smart guy, you figure that. So for about a year, I played with ideas. And then he called me back. This is a great leader, right? He remembered. He said, you know what? I just hired a writer. His name is Adrian Gostick. Introduce yourself at the annual meetings and write the book.

I think it's a great idea. Well, Adrian grew up in Canada too, hey? No, that's what it is. That's what we had in the hockey thing. And we got together and a year later, we dropped a book on a desk called Managing with Carrots. And it was the best recognition programs of some of our best clients and so on.

And that was the start. And then people said, hey, I loved your book. You speak on your book, right? And we went, yeah, sure. Yeah, right. Why not? That sounds like fun. Make it to you make it.

Right. And so we went to conference and said, oh, that's fun. That's fun. And then people say, hey, love your speech. You have training on that, right? We went, we probably should. You know, the company was located in Salt Lake City. And so the coffee guys were there and the crucial conference said, and you always know how knows a guy.

Right. So we said, hey, here's our book. Can you create training? And they did. And so that became our virtuous circle. We'd speak, or people would read the book. We'd speak and then we train and then they'd buy more books and then it evolved where we went from really being recognition focused to being culture leadership and gratitude focused. And it's really been a remarkable journey. Wow. And very satisfying. And I will tell you, the reason we're still very passionate about it is because not only does it work in the workplace, and we've got a database now

over a million engagement series to draw from. I mean, our data is rock solid, right? Is that when people took it home, that's what we love, because as you look at the research, if you're happy in the workplace and really passionate about what you do, and this was a study in University of California, you're 150% more likely to be happy in your personal life. Oh yeah. So when we grab leaders, we say, you know what? Not only do you have responsibility to model the right behaviors and give permission to do

the same, you need to send your people home happy because the ripple effect is far greater than you can imagine. I mean, how many times have you had a job that you hated and you brought that agita? You brought home. You bring it home. And it makes you shorter with your kids and your partner and your spouse. And the opposite is true, but you can't believe we did today. It was amazing. Absolutely.

Everything changes. I think that's so important to say because I think people have to do what they like. And part of that is, if you're not an entrepreneur on your own or you're working for a company, having that feeling of contentment and happiness is such an important part because the truth is like how many marriages fall apart and how many and how and how and how much anxiety and depression is happening with like medication because people are at the crux so miserable at the one thing they do more than anything else. Exactly. People are at work more than anything else like they they how many hours is it that they say a day? Like, you're at least there, what, it's 80% of your day, it's been at work minimum. Right. So if you're miserable

there, of course it's going to have a terrible trickle down effect in everything else in your life. And it is interesting, you know, you talk about habits and developing those muscles. You know, I quote my dad a lot because he was very quotable. Right. And he would say, you know, happiness is a choice. Choose to be happy. Yeah. My husband says that all the time to me. Good for him. I care husband already. The fact is, is that if you can't choose to be happy at work,

you need to choose to work someone else. Yeah. And you got to make that. I was involved in a job that I was just so passionate about for like 19 years. And leaders changed, culture changed. And it was my wife again, I'll kick my coverage right pulled me aside and said look I know you're contemplating whether you should stay or whether you should leave let me make this easy for

you you're leaving I don't know what we're gonna be doing we're just not doing this anymore right and it was really interesting and this will really stuck with me she said because I want my husband back all right you were this happy engaged mission driven and you are miserable. She actually grabbed me one time and she said, you got to stop yelling in the shower. You're scaring the kids. Because you know when you're in the shower and you have those conversations. Exactly.

It was horrible. Or as we say in Jersey now, horrible. It's horrible way to live. So you got him along. If you're in Canada, you're in in Jersey. No, it's 100% true. And so I think that's why I think this is a very meaningful conversation, because people do spend so much time

in the workforce, in the workplace, to be aware of why you're happy, why are how to be happier, or how to change your environment, if it's not working, in finding a culture that works for you environment if it's not working. Exactly. And a culture that works for you. And it's so important.

I think you're spot on. My grandma used to say, look, you can't live in a sewer and not smell like water. Right. I mean, I love that. I love that. I love that. Well, and it's true.

A friend of mine is a great job. And again, extraordinary wife. And they went to the year-end big party and everything and his wife said Huh, so these are the people you work for hey, cuz yeah, yeah, should we want to become like that? He goes well, no, he said look I can create my own things. He goes no, you can't we're leaving It's like like like like seriously says it you got to get out of here because you spent so much time here with those people It can't help but rub off on you. Well, that's, isn't it? Do that saying that you are the five people that you surround yourself the most.

Right. So, if you work that much, that's what's going to help, that toxicity becomes your new normal. Yeah. Right? And, you know, and this comes back to leaders again, some of the mistakes they made. They want to be the smartest person in the room every time. And it's such a mistake. The Netflix guy hadn't listened to this random engineer. Who knows?

100%. You never want to be the smartest person in the room. That's one of my laws of... Well, my dad's of that too. You never want to be the smartest guy in the room. He says, you know, good for you you because you can literally walk into any room. It would be fine. He also said, yeah, it had a great face for a radio. So, um, it had a great sense of humor. He was great. I said, you're lucky because like you came from a place that you had a really wonderful role model. And so that's why when people don't have that, that, um, that good luck, really. Then it's important to find an environment

number one where you can thrive by being self-aware and watching and practicing. We've got to practice. Yes, and I think what you've hit on is so important. You take yourself out of that bad environment. You find good mentors, you find good coaches. So I think faith plays a lot better. Yeah, well, you know, find your So I think faith plays a big big role. Find your

congregation, whatever faith it might be, whatever meditation it is, and surround yourself with good people. You can never have too many good people in your life. And when you find those toxic people, you've got to find ways to just get them out. Right. I agree with that. So finding mentors, I'm going to recap this so for people, finding mentors, finding role models, finding a tribe or a community where you can thrive and you can glean the good information and positive habits of those other people. And protect your tribe.

And protect your tribe. It's interesting. I'm talking with Amir about my Ahmed, my overdrive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who, you know, 10 years ago brought his family over from Jordan. And that because they were in peril. And they said, well, what brought you to Stacey? He was all to protect my family. He says, you know, and the reason I'm doing this full time is so that my wife can stay

home to make sure that my kids don't get involved in those kinds of things. He says, my whole mission as a father is to protect my kids and protect my family. Yeah, I gave him five stars. Right, exactly. And maybe a tip. Absolutely. Maybe a tip.

Right. And you just love people that understand that. Right. And I think so often, because we are so privileged, right, we talked about entitlement, you know, and the different neighbors. We feel so great. We forget that 99% of the world would trade places with us in a nanosecond. 100%. That we can turn on the tap and get drinkable water that we can go outside and not feel unsafe. Right. You know, that we've got more than enough food to eat. And I think this is again a part of what

leaders, the great leaders, the extraordinary leaders really understand like the like the kentian alts and like the kentaylers. They go on whatever you want to call them mission trips. They they've served together. They take care of each other. They they they go build a house habitat for humanity. They make sure they've got funds to take care of their employees. It's much more personal. And because they care, you know, one of the guys that we got to spend some time with was Alan Malali. And I don't know if that name rings about with you, but now it doesn't.

He saved Ford Motor Company in the big recession when the big three were, they brought him in from Boeing to turn that whole thing around. And it's a remarkable story. There's a book written about a called American Icon. Put it on your list. Oh, yes, yes, yes. I did hear about this. And you know when his first rule of leadership is,

it's your people love him up. Love him up. You know, I know you're just going. But that's basically what you've been saying for the last hour here. How many leaders don't get that? Right. That's what I'm saying.

People go around and around and around. And yet like when it's, when sometimes it's the most obvious thing, that's, people try to find what the answer is when it's really usually the most obvious thing, right? And that's true. And it is the people because like that's when a company will thrive. People go to something when they have an emotional feeling towards humanists, the soft stuff. It's like a new one.

It's not the hard, it's not the hard skills. It's a soft stuff. It's like a new one. It's not the hard, it's not the hard skills. It's a soft stuff. It's how something makes you elicit an emotion. And that's usually a human feeling, a human connection. The emotional engagement is all the different. It's a, yeah. We talk about that. It's not the, what you do and how you do it, it's the why.

And when you understand the why and you get that emotional connection, everything gets better. Passion goes up. You can overcome obstacles. You look for resources. You bring people in, you get that emotional connection, everything gets better. Passion goes up. You can overcome obstacles. You look for resources. You bring people in, you listen to your team and say, look, we just got to get this down. And no one of us can do it by ourselves.

How do we come together on this thing to make this happen? It's that important. And that's where it gets magical. And that's to your point, people want to be a part of that. They don't leave that. In fact, they flock to it. They flock to it. That's great.

This has been a great conversation. And is there anything you want to add before we like around like basically just, well, you know, I always like to end by saying, like, be sure to take it home. Yeah. I mean, you know, so often we find executives that have put so much into their jobs, they come home exhausted. And I get that, you know, you can justify it by saying,

I'm exhausted because I'm providing for my family. Well, you know what your family really wants? They want your time. Your friends, your family, your partner, whatever your configuration is, they want your time, they want your attention. We talk about at the end of our book, we sit, take it home,

and you hear some best practices, turn off your phone. Be happy to see each other. You know, be excited to see each other. So we're newly minted grandparents, right? So we've got a four year old grand site. I know we got a little new, she's almost a year old, a little granddaughter. When Lucas comes over, he's so excited to see us.

Like there's nothing better. That is true, yes. What can we learn from that? Well, when you come on from a trip and you're husband, be excited to see him. So great to see you. Instead of, I'm so excited to see you. Is that, I'm so exhausted. Can you have my feet?

Was there a different for dinner? It's so, again, this is a little, it's a new one. It's like the devil is in the details, right? And also, again, we talked about this as perspective. But those are things that you have to remind yourself of, and it's so important. And get in the routine and do it every day. It's an everyday thing.

Well, actually, there's two things I'd like to say at the end. One is buy a lot of books. Yeah. It's available on Amazon, leading with gratitude, you know, make my mom a proud. Secondly, as we talk about taking home and being grateful, and I brought you a little gift. Yeah, gift.

That was not necessary, but I love gifts. Who does it, right? And so we have a tradition. When we're grateful to someone, we create that appreciative moment, that grateful moment. And we use the metaphor of the carrot. You give more carrots and less sticks. So I brought for you our mascot, Garrett the carrot. Oh, that's so cute.

I love it. Thank you so much. It always cheers up everybody's day. We love Garrett the carrot. And I hope every everybody's day. We love you on the carrot. And I hope every time you look at that, you'll remember how blessed and grateful you are for the wonderful life you have and to pass it on. Absolutely.

I actually love this because it'll also remind me to always lead with giving the carrot not the stick. This is amazing. Thank you so much, Chester. It's been really, really fun having you as our guests on Habits and Hustle. There you go. Eiffel fellow Canadian.

Where do people find you besides, of course, leading with gratitude on Amazon? Yeah, we've got a wonderful training company called The Culture Works. You can reach us at thecultureworks.com, chestrelton.com, like the.com.com, AdrianGhost.com. We're very active on LinkedIn. We've got a great followership there. So, please feel free to reach out and connect on LinkedIn. We've got lots of articles and lots of tips and it's all free. This has been very helpful for and also it's very, it's very,

I just, such great information. I think that people can really glean from. So I appreciate it. You know, I think the world at this point in particular, we just need more gratitude. We need to be more civil, we need to treat each other better. And if our book can help do that, then that'll be a great mission for us. Thank you so much. You bet. This episode is brought to you by the Yap Media Podcast Network. I'm Hala Taha, CEO of the award-winning digital media empire Yap Media, and host of Yap Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn, and profit.

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