Habits and Hustle - Episode 493: Ben Greenfield: How to Actually Look 20 Years Younger + His Most Extreme Biohacks Revealed

Episode Date: October 14, 2025

What happens when biohacking's biggest evangelist spends $40,000 replacing his blood with young plasma? In this episode of Habits and Hustle, I sit down with Ben Greenfield, the ultimate biohacker and author of "Boundless," for a deep dive into the science of optimization.  We discuss the real science behind fat loss, his daily skincare routine that keeps him looking decades younger, and why he believes faith is just as important as physical optimization. We also dive into his controversial take on GLP-1 microdosing, why the 12-3-30 treadmill trend is overrated, and how he went from extreme experimenter to finding balance between optimization and spirituality. Ben Greenfield is a biohacker, human performance consultant, and New York Times bestselling author. He's one of the world's leading experts on performance, recovery, sleep, digestion, brain optimization, and anti-aging. His revised book "Boundless" is considered the encyclopedia of health optimization. What We Discuss:  (04:00) Why most people need digestive enzymes after 40 and how they unlock nutrients (18:00) Cold plunging for women: What the research actually shows  (36:00) The 12-3-30 treadmill trend: Why it's overrated for body composition  (51:00) GLP-1 agonists: Why microdosing might be the future of appetite control  (1:05:00) The plasma replacement therapy that cost $40K but made him feel "unstoppable" (1:27:00) Faith, forgiveness, and finding purpose beyond biohacking  (1:37:00) His anti-aging skincare routine that keeps him looking decades younger  …and more! Thank you to our sponsors: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Momentous: Shop this link and use code Jen for 20% off  Manna Vitality: Visit mannavitality.com and use code JENNIFER20 for 20% off your order  Prolon: Get 30% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program! Just visit https://prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN and use code JENNIFERCOHEN to claim your discount and your bonus gift. Find more from Jen:  Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen   Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagement Find more from Ben Greenfield:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bengreenfieldfitness/  Website:  https://boundlessbook.com/ 

Hi, guys. It's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. Ben Greenfield is one of a kind. He's back on the show. He is literally the most unique human I've ever, one of the most unique humans I've ever met. Oh, you're doing my shot. And there's always these weird cocktails at your house. This is better than that. This tastes like somebody peed in the camp. I don't know what that is. You just took it from my fridge. These are performance shots. These are good. This will only keep me up till 2 a.m. No, I actually have seen these before. There are adaptogens. Yeah, and they're taste delicious. And I think that they really help with, I mean, I take them before I work out. They're great for performance, but they're also great for mental focus and stress and blah, blah, blah. But I figured we do this, we usually, what we normally do, if you don't remember, we usually take a shot together, like a healthy performance. It's only been 30 seconds. It's a took a shot. So if you take yours now, we still did it together. I know. We're supposed to like clink it and then drink it. There's still a little bit left in the bottom of mine. But I'll tell you why I'm not doing it because I just did one like 45 minutes ago. And I think there's a maximum of how many you should probably take in a day. So I'm not going to do my shot today because it's so late. No, they're adaptogens. That's what the name means.

Your body just adapts? It'll be fine. Even with 50 grams of, okay, well, I can do a little bit so we can click it. I mean, I'm kind of joking and kind of not. Like the definition of an adaptogen is something that will kind of turn up your nervous system if it needs an excitatory stimuli and turn it down if it needs an inhibitory stimuli. So an adaptogen is safer to use at night than like a pure central nervous system

stimulant, like caffeine. Your brain is, were you always like this? Like, how do you remember and like spew information at a pace that is a clip that is not human? Like, how do you have,

how do you contain all this? By being mostly stupid about most things in the world except health. And then B, by doing what I think I first read in Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes book where Watson meets Sherlock Holmes and Sherlock Holmes

is going to try to forget Watson's name as soon as possible because he doesn't want stuff cluttering up his brain. And so I try to write stuff down all the time and get ruminating thoughts out of my brain as quickly as possible. And so I try to tell myself that I have a clearer, cleaner head because of that. But it's like the retention, because I want to ask you a question. I'm not even sure if you can answer this, but because you retain, though, so much information in detail. It's not even just like, you know, most people or most people, like, they can kind of like keep a couple of little elements of something. But if I know when I talk with you or interview or whatever, I guess

have to say one word, like, and you can kind of like rattle on everything up and down, sideways. Is there a way that someone can work? Is there like actually some kind of methodology where we can become more? Some kind of limitless smart drug. Yeah. Besides an IV and magic mind. I'm not even joking is, do you have any tips of how people can train their brains to retain information better? Do I look like a developmental psychologist to you? No, but you can play one on TV. I'll play one on TV. So the way I look at it is you can stem the brain, which is what most people do, which is what I was just talking about, like caffeine, nicotine, energy drinks,

Red Bull, whatever. It's like a dime a dozen. And like a lot of energy drinks aren't bad. I mean, there's great brands out there. But it's one thing to do. just like turn the volume up on an organ that isn't necessarily going to just like spit out good information if you if you turn the volume up you have to actually provide building blocks to allow things like you know the formation of new neurons to occur and you know greater amounts of neuroplasticity and better connectivity between neurotransmitters and along uh that along a nerve you know as a nerve signal gets propagated so if you step back and you look at brain health in general, beyond just like taking things that make you feel more awake,

which kind of move the dial a little bit, you need to do things that provide fuel for the brain. So, for example, if you actually look at how a nerve propagates a signal, there's these little like insulatory sheaths around the nerves called myelin sheaths. And myelin shees are made up primarily of two different kinds of fats, oleic acid and dHA. So oleic acid, as the name implies is something you'd find in like extra virgin olive oil you find it in a lot of Mediterranean fats you find it in the diet of somebody who's not being like fat phobic which is one of the worst things for your brain then dHA you would get from for example fish oil right so those the hexanoic acid is different than dh EA right a lot of people confuse it with that what's the difference

hormonal precursor like nine day right d a is an upstream metabolite for different hormones like you know, cortisol, progesterone, testosterone, and it's great, like, if you need hormonal support. DHA is a fatty acid that allows for those myelin Cs to have the fat composition along with the laic acid that they need. So first thing you would do is eat a diet that's rich in Mediterranean-style fats. Like, you've probably seen research that a Mediterranean diet's good for staving off Alzheimer's and dementia and stuff like that. And there's actually something to the idea of that being good specifically.

for nerve signal propagation. You also need in between those nerves to cross little cleft in between each nerve, neurotransmitters. And neurotransmitters are primarily made up of amino acids, and they're supported by vitamin B, be like boy. So if you have adequate protein in your diet

and you're breaking down that protein, which actually as you age, you can use a little bit of better living through science for, meaning like if you in my opinion if you're older than about 40 and you're consuming protein you should have digestive enzymes along with the protein to help break it down and get more amino acids which amongst other things like say helping out with muscle can help out with neurotransmitter formation collagen essential amino acids any of like the supplements that have these broken down proteins in them would also count and then vitamin b you can get that to a pretty great extent

from meat. It's always an uphill battle for someone who follows a plant-based diet to have all the brain support that they need because you have lower levels of vitamin B. You have lower levels in many cases of the fats that I was talking about, like the DHA and aleic acid. You have lower amounts of protein. And it's not as though you can't like eat a good plant-based diet and get a lot of that stuff. It's just harder than if you were eating meat. Can you ask you a question about the digestive end times? So you're saying as you get older, if you're when you eat pro, is it, you eat too much protein or when you eat protein in general. Just protein in general.

You should always have a digestive enzyme. I mean, I'd even say just digestive enzymes not just for protein, but in general as you age, as pancreatic enzyme production just decreases with age, it's a good idea to take digestive enzymes. A lot of people who get more gas and bloating from foods that didn't use to cause them issues will be able to get rid of that if they take digestive enzymes with their meal. And protein is one of the biggest. So would you be taking it every, would you be taking, do you recommend people taking digestive enzymes after each meal or just after their biggest meal? I take digestive enzymes now, I'm 43. I take them with pretty much every meal except, and this is not like deeply rooted in scientific principles, it's just my own theory when I have a smoothie because it's kind of like easy to digest, it's blended and everything. And I might be totally off base. Like there actually was one research study that showed that.

that back to the plant-based thing. If you have a plant-based protein, like pea, hemp, rice, and you have way protein, usually the way protein would have more amino acid bioavailability than the plant-based protein. But if you take digestive enzymes with a plant-based protein, and in this study they were actually using like smoothie, like protein powder, the availability, the bio-availability of the amino acids and the plant-based protein becomes just as good as the animal-based protein. Oh, wow. Technically, I probably could get even more benefit if I just threw a handful of digestive enzymes into my smoothie. But there's just so many things to do and so little time when I'm making my morning smoothie. Right. Right before I got to get on

phone calls. It's just like one extra step to take. So I don't use digestive enzymes when I'm having a smoothie. But pretty much every meal, like if I go out to a restaurant, like I actually take one of those little pill caps of things and I put digestive enzymes in there. And you eat it before or after the meal, you said. I mean, before is good. But if you forget, You can take it after. Most of the things that would be like blood sugar stabilizers, digestive enzymes, gallbladder support, taking them before the meal is best. But if you forget, you can still get benefits by taking them after.

You know what I'm on top of the food. So it doesn't, so it doesn't, it matters a little bit, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't ruin the actual benefit of it. Yeah. So it helps. So let me just get this straight. So digestive enzymes help with bloating, digestion. What are the other things, other benefits people can get from digestive enzymes?

Mostly unlocking more nutrients from food because they're basically breaking down the food better. So you have like proteases that break down protein, amylases that break down carbs. You actually make salivary amylase in your mouth, which is why like if you put a cracker in your mouth and you pay attention, it starts to taste sweet because the salivary amylase automatically starts to turn the cracker into. more simple carbohydrates, which tastes sweet. And then lipase is the last one that would be like for fats, for lipids, lipase. So if you look at a good digestive enzyme, usually it'll have a protease or some form of protease, some kind of amylase, and some kind of a lipase in it. Do you think it's necessary then? Because I remember years ago, people were taking digestive enzymes after a big carb dinner. Like they were having pizza or pasta and they would take the digestive

enzymes. Is there any benefit for taking it after carbs? Or do you think it's just really most important when you're eating a high protein meal. It I think is most important with protein because protein would technically be the hardest to break down. Now, if you think about it, like if you were to take a bunch of digestive enzymes with carbs and a lot of people are concerned about like spiking their blood glucose now, your blood glucose would spike more because you're breaking down the carbs faster. But there are other things that you can take with carbs that a lot of people are doing now that lower the blood sugar response to a meal. Like what? They're called GDAs, glucose disposal agents. They're things that basically like help shove glucose out of the bloodstream and into

the muscle more readily. One of the ways that they do that is either A by increasing insulin sensitivity, right? So basically the cell receptors are more sensitive to the activity of insulin. Insulin is going to help shove glucose into the cells. Or they increase the expression of the of the transporters that pull glucose into, say, like, muscle. So an example of a glucose disposal agent would be bear brain. Dihydro-bearerine is kind of like a more powerful version of bear brain. Some people call it, like, nature's metformin because it lowers blood glucose pretty well. Bitter melon extract is one.

A lot of the things that do this are bitter. Apple cider vinegar is another, like, cheap act that you can do before a meal that can lower blood glucose. Do these things actually work? They actually do. And they actually can work so effectively that if, and this has happened to me, like if you take a really powerful one, like dihydro-barine or bitter melon extract and you have carbs and then you like go exercise or you have carbs, but it's not that many carbs, you can actually watch your blood sugar and you start to go like a little bit hypo glycic acid. Really? Yeah. But if you're going to go to a steakhouse and like punish the bread basket or have an extra cocktail or do, you know, do you.

do something that's going to put extra sugar into the body i think it's a good idea and if you're just like up the creek without a paddle and you forgot to take your enzymes and your glucose disposal agents to the restaurant if you go to a restaurant or you go to anywhere that has a bar and you look behind the bar they always typically have a lineup of bitters or bitters or bitters and anything bitter is a glucose disposal agent, and anything bitter also stimulates the relays of glugan-like peptide, the gLP that a lot of people will inject. And so you get this mild, like, satiation-inducing effect by having something bitter with a meal. That's one of the reasons, like some people will say to control blood glucose, have like the

bitter, like the salad, you know, with the bitter vegetables, like earlier on the meal because it helps to control the blood glucose from the carbs that you're going to have later on. That's a good piece of advice. So, like, if you're at a restaurant, what would be something in a bar that would be bitter that they can take? Bitters. Like, bitters? I mean, no.

Bitter's kind of like, the elephant in the room. Like, I'm not a drinker, so that's why I don't go to the bars. Totic water is a little bit bitter. But for me, like, honestly, like, I will order soda water with a squeeze of lemon and a splash of bitters, A, for that effect. Oh, like, actual bitters. And, like, I usually don't drink more than, like, one. one cocktail when I'm at a party. So if you see me at a party and I've got a glass of my hand,

usually it's like bitters and soda water and lemon and I'm not like actually drinking, like nursing it. Yeah, yeah. And well, bitters have like a little bit of alcohol, but it's not, like it's not very much at all. So bitters is actually a drink. I thought you meant like bitters like what's like an ingredient in a drink. Yeah. Yeah. I thought you're meaning more like bitters like the like a bitter parsley or whatever they would put in a drink. No. That's how bad. But something like that could work, I guess. I mean, Yeah, but like bitters are like the actual concentrated bitters liquid they use. That would work for sure to like cut it.

So if all those things you just said, you said the berberine, you said the bitter melon, you said a couple other things that help with glucose control, which one works the most effective, which was the best one? There's ginseng, there's chromium, there's vanadium. There are a whole bunch. I think probably the most powerful that you could just like get as an over-the-counter, besides like metformin, which is the diabetic drug. is dihydro-barine.

The only downside to it is that, like, it's so potent that either A, it can cause a little bit of hypoglycemia, and it gives a lot of people a little bit of stomach upset. And then I have to sound like the fox guarding the henhouse, because, like, I own a supplements company, and one of the products we have is, like a blood sugar stabilizer, and it's Bittermellon. Oh, it is? It's like the primary ingredient in that one, and it's called lean. And does it work? Do you take it?

I do, yeah. Is this key on that? And Bittermillin actually also helps with gas. in bloating. It does. Yeah. So you get some extra effects. But also digestive enzymes does that too, right? Yeah. Yep. So what is like your... So there's like the 28 different pills you can take before you go out to a restaurant. I was going to say, you could like take a whole thing. We could like basically have that as your meal. Because I remember hearing years ago about chromium and all these other things. Yeah. And that one's also... Chromium, vanadium, like those are like minerals that help to support blood sugar.

But not as well as the ones that you just said. A lot of supplements will combine, like, the mineral-based ones with the bitters from almost like a cocktail. There's another one that's really good is called G-D-Aid. That's a pretty powerful one, too. G-D-Aid? Yeah, I think that's made by biosec. But there's a few good formulas out there. And don't get me wrong, like, there's nothing as powerful as lifting weights because chronically, it gives you more muscle.

muscle is like a metabolic sink that sucks up glucose, and acutely, it increases insulin sensitivity. It's like lifting weights before you go have a big meal is a good idea. And even if you're not doing like a full-on weight training session, even just dropping and doing like 50 push-ups or whatever. And then the other one is cold. Cold is a potent glucose disposal agent, meaning if you do a cold bath or cold shower, cold soak or whatever, your glucose can stay stabilized for a really long time afterwards. How long? Hours. Like I've tested, and this is an n-equals one because I wear the blood glucose pot. I've done cold early in the day, and it has stabilized my blood glucose the entire day if it's like a cold, cold session. So how long do you do the cold

session now for? My sweet spot is two to three minutes. Oh, you do two, three minutes. Yeah, yeah. And let's talk about this because it's a great segue into my question that we asked, that was the first question I asked you yesterday. At coffee and chill. Yes, at coffee and chill. The ice tub party. Yes, the cold plunge and coffee. I did the coffee, you did the cold plunge. what is your take on cold plunging and females because there's so much controversy right now with females and also I think also for hormones and cold plunging right yeah what is your take on it I know you're not a female but you are knowledgeable I do not have a uterus yes yeah that's a future environment yes only time will tell yeah I mean like women are more sensitive to cold like

No offense, but generally stereotyping. They didn't know, 100%. We have a lower amount of muscle mass, and muscle is a thermogenic agent. And so women tend to be more sensitive to the cold because of that. And then if you are in your ludial phase, you're going to produce more estrogen and progesterone, and both of those can cause a more vasoconstrictive response to the cold. And being about a vaso-constriction, you're making a blood vessel smaller, so you're able to heat yourself a little less.

well if you have higher levels of estrogen and progesterone the other thing that can happen is a higher cortisol response like a higher sympathetic nervous system response the question becomes like is any of that going to manifest in any actual issues right it's kind of like theoretical that women have a different response to the cold but is that going to cause your body to like go into starvation mode gain fat get adrenal fatigue you know being sympathetic nervous system stimulating for hours on end. And it's interesting because there's been studies on male versus female response to cold

and female cortisolic response to cold. There was one study of almost 60 men and 60 women and they exposed them to cold and they measured a lot of the metabolic parameters that you would expect to be affected by cold like insulin and glucose and a compound that fat cells make called adiponectin and leptin.

And the female versus the male response was different, but technically in that study's females, almost across the board, had a better metabolic response of all of those variables compared to the men. So metabolically, cold appears to be pretty good for women for things like fat burning, sugar stabilization, et cetera. And then there was another study where they did cold exposure for women for 12 weeks. And for the first four weeks, as a lot of people would tell you, cortisol was spiking in those women, but then after the four-week mark and up to the 12-week mark, cortisol stabilized and began to chronically lower, meaning there was like a stress, resilience-inducing effect

of regularly timed cold exposure in women. Studies have also shown that, just like I was saying earlier, if you have a high amount of estrogen and progesterone, you get more vasoconstriction and a little bit higher cortisol response to the cold. But that doesn't mean it's causing anything bad. I would say, if anything, there should be some kind of like a long-term study in women that also differentiates between different phases of the cycle to actually see if there's anything, like fat gain, lower HRV, higher amounts of stress, anything. But today, nothing like that exists. And I think the only thing you can kind of reasonably say is that compared to men, women,

and especially women in the ludial phase, should consider doing cold that's slightly less cold for perhaps a shorter period of time than a man might. Like how much time, a minute or? Well, it's all kind of theoretical. Right. But if you look at the effect of cold and its ability to be able to suppress the response to exercise. That's another reason that people say don't do the cold is because if the body's super cold, you shut down your own anti-inflammatory response and the body doesn't do things like

mitochondrial proliferation, a development of new mitochondria, or I should rather say mitochondrial biogenesis is what it would be called or building of new satellite cells for building new muscles. So a lot of people have heard that and then they will exercise but not do cold. after exercise because we've heard now that cold is bad for getting the response that you want from exercise but the studies that have shown that to be true which has been shown to be true took cold exposure lengths from 10 to 20 minutes in length and a drop of almost a full Celsius and muscle tissue and it takes a long time to do that like there's not a lot of people I don't know about you but like I don't even have the time to do 10 to 20 minutes of cold after workout if you're

doing just like a quick cold plunge, which actually is really refreshing after a workout, especially if it's like summer and you don't want to be sweaty the rest of the day. Right. It's not going to impair exercise response at all. And then if you look at well, how long should women go, how cold compared to men, I think a pretty good rule is that if you get out of a cold plunge and you're like distractingly cold and having to shiver for a long period of time to heat up, you probably overdid it. That would be the same for men and women. I mean, unless you're literally like going for some kind of a Wimhoff world record or just massive amounts of fat loss or something like that because you're trying to burn a bunch off with cold and there's better ways to lose fat than

stressing yourself with excess cold. I think just a reasonable amount of cold. For me, my sweet spot is two to three minutes, but I go pretty cold because it's just like a time hack, you know. Right. Shorter time. So I do 33 degrees for two to three minutes. And I actually like to do pre-workout cold because you get this.

of adrenaline. And I have an awesome workout if I get cold before the workout. And for that, it's literally just like 30 seconds. It's like there's a cold plunge between me and my gym. It's at 33 degrees. I'll walk out there, take off my shorts, jump in, get out, towel off, put my shorts on, go into the gym. And that's just like 30 seconds, like just enough for, you know, quick, like full body cup of coffee before you work out. You know, it's funny. I was going to say to you, how about just what I would think to kind of warm up your body? What's your take on maybe going into the sauna for like five minutes to kind of warm up, you know, for a warm up. Yeah, and then working out because then you're like warming up your muscles. You're now like getting your body revved up as

opposed to the opposite that you just said. It's an interesting idea. So some things to think about are first of all, if you look at sauna before or sauna after, if you want all of the performance enhancing benefits of a sauna, like the production of new red blood cells and an erythropoedin or EPO, like a precursor to red blood cells. And you want a higher amount of heat shock proteins and you want better blood flow. Getting in the sauna after you've exercised gives you way more benefits because your body is already kind of like hot and stressed and you're piling some extra heat on top of that. Getting in the sauna or preheating before exercise compared to pre-cooling before exercise would technically not be as good because even though you're kind of like heating up the

muscles, A, you can do that with just like a good dynamic warm up. And B, you're shifting blood flow to the skin away from muscles, away from areas of the body where you'd prefer to have blood for performance. So this would be, well, let me ask you this. Like, if you walk into your gym and your gym's really hot, like let's see if a gym's like 80 degrees, are you going to have a better work out if the gym's at 80 degrees or if it's at like 65 degrees. 80 degrees. Really? Yeah.

Because I like to be hot. I hate going to like gyms like Equinox because the air conditioning is so cold. I'm not even able to sweat. And then I don't feel like I'm really, I'm not pushing myself as hard versus if I was sweating and really hot. Like I feel like your body's much more elastic and much more flexible. Mm-hmm. You're a weird anomaly.

Really? Well, let me explain why. I am anyway. but that's hot yoga is harder than regular yoga cardiovascularly right because your body has to work that much harder to cool itself and it has to shift between shifting blood to the extremities to be able to cool right body and also get enough blood to the muscles to be able to fuel the muscles okay and so the heart has to work harder so the heart rate goes up so if you're working out in a hot gym then and it's an actual hot gym not like hot enough to where your muscles aren't so cold that you can't move

but hot enough to where, like, you're sweating more, you're having to move more blood flow around, your rating of perceived exertion, like how hard you perceive that workout to be, and how hard, arguably, that workout actually is, is going to be higher if it's hotter. So if your goal is just, like, pure cardiovascular benefits, then working out in a hot environment might be superior. But if your goal is, like, strength, power, biomechanics, et cetera, like, working out in a room that's like unreasonably hot would be less advantageous from a performance standpoint. Really?

And there are nuances like if you're, I don't know, acclimatizing to go do some kind of like a race or something in a hot area. Like I used to ride my bike in a really hot room when I was getting ready for Ironman, Hawaii. Or if your number one goal is like sweating, heat shock proteins, cardiovascular stimulus. But I would argue that like if you're in the gym gym, you should be in the gym to build strength and power. And if you want to, like, get really good cardio fitness, yeah, go ride your bike in a hot room or hit the sauna. Well, it's why you said that because I remember, do you know Laird Hamilton is obviously you do, right? Yes, I know Laird. Okay, so I was at, I was with him in his sauna, he had a bike in there, like a spin bike. He's like spinning in the sauna. Yes. I was like,

I could barely even sit in the sauna. He's like riding his bike in the sauna. Yeah. Because, I mean, I think it, I thought it's training your, like, it's training your endurance and stamina to a level. It is. Yeah. And, but I also thought, like, it's, it, like, I thought it's better for you, basically, versus, like, do you ever go to equinoxes or stuff like that? It's better for you, different. Like, it's better for you cardiovascularly. Right.

But not, not, not for strength training and performance. Power. And, like, like, everybody thinks about the gym a little bit differently. Yeah. I primarily think about the gym as a place to build muscle and get strong and develop power and separate the cardiovascular component from that. Like, if I wanted the best of both worlds, I would go to a gym where it was like 65 to 70 degrees in the weight training area, and then get the most out of my cardio training, there's another room that's, like, kind of hot that you could go to your cardio in.

So you know what I'm saying? It kind of depends on what your goals are. But I'm so confused on to why would it be not as good or advantageous if I were to be in a warm place doing strength training? Because like if I'm doing a deadlift... Because there's less blood flow to the muscles. But if I'm deadlifting, right? And I can be way more flexible. Supple.

Yeah. Yeah, more supple. You're right. That heat would allow you to do that. But you cross, you can pretty quickly cross a threshold from enough heat for the muscles to be warm and not stiff. to so much heat that there's none of blood to the muscles because the body has to shunt a bunch to the skin to cool the body off. Okay.

You know what I'm saying? So it's like, hot is good, but more is not necessarily better if you're wanting to get enough blood flow to the muscles to, like, crank out a few extra reps and get strong. Okay. Fair. Let me share my daily routine game changer with you. It's the Momentus 3. I've been using their protein, their creatine, and omega-3 combo for months now, and the results

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Visit livemometus.com and use my code, Jen, for 35% off your first subscription. That's livemomenus.com code gen for 35% off your first subscription. Trust me, you'll be happy you did. What's the one thing that people are not doing properly for weight loss or fat loss? You know, we all know about strength training. We all know about eating protein. Okay, we got those down. And the whole cardio versus strength training, I'm sure you believe that strength training

is more important than cardio. Concurrent training, meaning doing strength and cardio. at the same time, either in the same workout or throughout the week, the most superior form for fat loss versus just strength or just cardio. Okay. Kind of like the order for fat loss

is concurrent training and then aerobic training and then strength training. Same more. What do you mean by super? So concurrent means at the same... So an example of a concurrent workout, there's like one classic workout

that should have just burnt way more calories and blasted more fat than just about any workout you could do is you would do, let's say, and I'll give the example of a workout that I do if I'm pressed for time, and I just want to get as many benefits as possible out of the workout, metabolic stimuli, strength, et cetera.

Now, before I explain this, there will be like a few choice people listening in who know exercise science will say, well, what about the interference effect? The interference effect means that if you are doing cardio and strength, the strength isn't going to be, quite as good as it could be if you were doing the cardio. And the cardio isn't going to be quite as good as it

could be if you're doing strength. But both put together for fat loss and the metabolic stimuli are gold standard. And that's called concurrent training. So this would be like I walk into, let's say like my hotel gym back here in Santa Monica and I do two minutes on the Airdine and then I do a super set of chest press to pushups. And then I do two minutes on the Airdine and then I do a super set of leg press to hamstring curls. And then I do two minutes on the airdine and I super set overhead press to band pull a parse and then finally two minutes on the air dine and lap pull downs to seated rows. Like that's an example of a concurrent training workout where it's all done in the same set and you're kind of like huff and wind and you have a metabolic rate that's through the roof.

You're burning a ton of calories because you're never just like sitting there, you know, watching TV in between sets and you're kind of like moving the whole time. Another example of concurrent training for more of like a weekly periodized standpoint would be, and I do this a lot of times when I'm at home, like full body strength Monday, core and cardio Tuesday, full body strength Wednesday, core and cardio Thursday, and then full body strength on Friday and core and cardio on Saturday. So that's an example of a week in which you're doing both aerobic and strength training. And back to the fat loss piece, that would be an example of the best way to move or exercise if you want to burn fat.

would say kind of related to that one of the bigger mistakes that people make in the exercise department specifically would be hearing that zone two cardio like aerobic cardio burns a lot of fat and that's like they're just like the treadmill walking people because of that and I have like I love to walk on a treadmill I think it's great to do like low level physical intensity during the day I think it can be a little bit of a waste of time to do it at the gym like I'm not talking about people who actually are doing that for a race, like a triathlon or a marathon or something like that. Like, people are just wanting to burn fat. I would rather see people getting zone two cardio by walking on the treadmill during a Zoom call or by wearing a weighted best while you're

cleaning the garage or, you know, by parking a few blocks away from the restaurant, taking a brisk walk there and eating food and brisk walking back. And that's where I get the majority of my zone two cardio, just kind of like moving during the day, you know, jumping on the trampoline in your backyard. Right. But the issue is that, so if you look at like exercise physiology, there's this term called the RQ, the respiratory quotient, and if you were to go into an actual exercise physiology lab and put on one of these masks that measures the amount of oxygen that you consume and the amount of carbon dioxide that you produce, you can look at that ratio and get a pretty accurate evaluation of how much fat you're burning. and how many carbs you're burning. At rest or during exercise. The exercise version is you'd do it while you're on a treadmill or on a bicycle. The at rest versions, you're just like laying down, getting your metabolic rate measured. And if I were to put you on a treadmill and do that test, if you were walking

at a really low intensity, you'd see a lower RQ. A lower RQ means you're burning more fat and less carbs. And then as you get more and more intense, you begin to shift away from fat utilization. You begin to to burn a higher and higher percentage of carbs. And then you get to the point where you're just, like, running so hard, up a hill, almost ready to fall off the back of the treadmill, and you're burning, like, almost 100% carbs. So people hear that, and they hear that, like, this lower intensity or cardio burns a higher percentage of fat, and I think, all right, great.

Well, that's why I'm going to, like, burn all the fat off of my body. The problem is that you aren't burning that many calories at that low intensity. So if I'm burning, say, 70% fat, but I'm burning 200 calories per hour walking in Zone 2, and then I'm burning maybe 30% fat, but I'm also burning 800 calories per hour during, say, like one of those concurrent training sessions that I described. At the end of the day, I'm burning way more calories from fat by using intensity, high intensity interval training and weight training. and weight training, then I am from doing Zone 2 cardio. So... Because you see this whole thing about, like, the 12 incline, three miles an hour, 30 minutes.

Yeah. I'm like... Yeah, 12% incline, 3 miles per hour, 30 minutes. Yeah. Yeah, 12, 3.30, something like that. Yeah, and they're saying that that's like the 12.3.30 is like the best workout. And, you know, I tried it just to see what the whole, the hype was about. And I didn't burn very many calories.

No. And also psychologically, I didn't feel like I did very much. Now, granted, the best workout is the workout you're actually going to do. Right. And then for a lot of people, if it's like, if I can turn my brain off and go walk for 30 minutes, that person's going to burn more calories than the person who stops at the door of the gym because whatever they're supposed to be doing is way harder than that. A hundred percent. It's like when people always say to me, like, what's the best exercise to do, the one that you're actually going to do for sure? But is that I just wanted to ask you because I think there's a misconception out that, like, if you just do that, like, if you just do that. that, you're going to change your body composition, and you don't agree with that. Compared to doing nothing at all you are, but not as much as if you were, like, doing a widely varied program with both strength training and hit. And then...

Well, because the only way to really change your body composition is through strength training, I found. Yeah. Right? And I mean, like, if you look at the legs of a tort front cyclist, you wouldn't say, well, they're not doing anything. So if you, if you get enough reps on a High enough wadage, doing cardio, you can change your body composition. Swimmers have huge shoulders and they're not spending a ton of time in the gym. True. So if you're at the extreme end of the cardio range, you can change your body composition. But most people are not going to do that on an average cardio bunny workout machine.

But what would you say about this? Someone who runs, let's say, a three, like a three incline at five miles an hour versus the 12, 330. what do you think is a better weight to spend your time for efficiency and effectiveness? For what? For fat loss? I would say that. And keep the, like, think about all the things, the calories, the, all that. Yeah.

The higher intensity one, the one that gets your heart rate higher because of what's called post-exercise oxygen consumption, meaning that the harder that you work out, the higher your metabolic rate is after the workout, Or the more muscles that you stimulate during a workout, the higher your metabolic rate is long term because muscle burns calories and you're adding new muscle to your body. So anything that keeps the metabolic rate elevated for a longer period of time is going to be better. And there are, of course, like subtle nuances. Like if you overtrain and it's by like two hours doing super high intensity stuff in the gym, you will eventually develop hormone imbalances that send your body into starvation. mode, then it wants to start holding on to fat and get the cortisol issue. So there's always kind of like a law of diminishing returns. But for the most part, you're going to burn more calories,

burn more fat, and lose weight more effectively if you're exercising at a higher intensity instead of lower. How do you know when that's happening? Like, how do people know when they are working out too much too often and they're getting a lot of these symptoms, like holding onto fat and hormone imbalances. Like, when do you know if it's that or if it's just like mid-life or another thing happening? Like, are there signs that that's happening? Yeah. Let's say that you weren't going to, by the way, I just bought a new shirt at T.J. Max because I had to be on a documentary and now I feel like I'm nippling out. I don't know how to wear this shirt yet. Okay, good. But you do look very fancy in a new white shirt. I go. No logos. Yeah. So, T.J. Max. Max. Let's say,

you couldn't or you wouldn't or you don't have the time or just can't logistically get like a blood test or a hormone test to actually see if you have hormone imbalances because frankly like that would be a pretty good idea if you really wanted to self quantify as like go get a urinary hormone test and see if like cortisol super low or you know you have low dhia or low testosterone or any of these things that you could actually quantify but that aside some of the major things to pay attention to is and this something you can easily do with wearable elevated resting body temperature for multiple days in a row over and above what it would normally be elevated resting heart rate over and above what it normally is not for one day but like

consistent patterns like usually three days or more is beginning to give you clues that there's some type of nervous system dysregulation that can be pretty tied to the type of endocrine system and dysregulation that occurs from overtraining. Poor sleep, being tired, though, but like getting into bed and not being able to sleep, like tired but wired. So it's not like you don't want to get into bed, but you get into bed and you're just like,

you can't sleep and you just lay there awake and you can sometimes you're blood pounding in your ears and sometimes because of the elevated body temperature and heart rate, you're a little bit hotter than usual, and you just feel like sleep is disrupted. Swelling, like swelling in the fingers, swelling in the legs, with your toes, just like feeling.

like Pillsbury doughboy a little bit more often because cortisol dysregulation is linked to blood pressure regulation and also retention of fluids. So that would be another one. Lack of appetite or like a drop of appetite because if you are overtraining, like if you look at this from like an evolutionary biological standpoint, in a state of famine or starvation or excess stress, your body wants to hold onto calories because it's unlikely that this is a time of like feasting and a time of caloric excess. So when that happens, what you would tend to see is like a drop in hunger, like, and there's assuming you're not like a GLP agonist or something like that, but you're not as interested in food. You're not eating as much. You start to experience some of those things that

might indicate, like a little bit of a down regulation of the metabolic rate. And it's interesting because some of this stuff is like acute and then changes as it becomes chronic. So some people that were really paying attention to what I just said, would think, okay, so Ben, what you're saying is like my heart rate's elevated and my body temperature is elevated, but then if my thyroid is dysregulated, doesn't that make like the body get colder and slow down metabolism? And that's what happens if you ignore all this stuff and just go for too long a period of time. Then your body just starts to slow everything down. So it's like the early morning signs are tired and wired elevated, heart rate elevated body temperature, but then, and lack of appetite, but then long term, it's like everything just starts to shut down. And then you're cold. and you're sluggish and your metabolism starts to slow. This is something I'm always like a little bit cautious to talk about because I think more people, maybe not your audience, I don't know. For the most part, more people need to hear like move more, eat less,

lose weight. And there's like, there's fewer people that need to hear, don't go to the gym, it's a big scary place and you're going to die of cortisol. Of overtraining, right? Yeah, I mean, that is an issue with some people. And like I am serious that more people need to hear that because this is like back to the root of your question about mistakes that people make. People sometimes grasp at straws that aren't that important or try to fry a fish that isn't that big of a fish

that you need to fry. Right. And even though I love what is going on to a certain extent in Washington, D.C. with Make America Healthy Again, the Maha campaign and increasing awareness, like what's in our food and what ingredients are in the food supply. I think there's a lot of people almost like myopically focusing on artificial sweeteners and food. dies and even seed oils to a certain extent as being like the biggest problems when really like if we just told more people kids especially like get outside move more exercise more eat less calories understand the difference you know between how many calories are in i don't know like a Costco hot dog and a salad like those are the things that we need to be focusing on more i'm not saying

there's not some problems with what are petroleum in an ingredient right artificial sweeteners but it's not that big of an issue, especially when it comes to weight loss. Like, if I was coaching somebody for weight loss, I would much rather they be having like a sucralose acetyl-famming potassium infused, like stick packet that's 25 calories that makes them say, like, not stuff their face with an extra 600 calories because they're drinking some satiating synthetic compound, then I would have them be like, nope, that has artificial sweeteners in it. So I'm just going to go eat six apples.

No, actually. Like, at the end of the day, like, there is a calories-in-calories-out consideration of this stuff. I mean, that's what I was going to say to you. I mean, at the end of the day, we try to over-complicate things that don't need that much complication. Or, to your point, focus on the wrong things and not focus on the foundational things. Like, move more, eat less. And at the end of the day, it is calories in, calories out. Like, you know, you can say, yeah.

It's a huge part of it. Yeah, you can say where you're getting your calories from and all these other things. But, like, if that Diet Coke is going to stop you from eating another, you know, large pizza, it's probably going to be okay for you to have that diet. Yeah, or just like, if I'm on an airplane and they're bringing out the airplane food, like, I'll have a Diet Coke just because I don't think about the airplane food. Right. Yeah. And then I'm not going to drink, like, well, technically the law of diminishing returns for carcinogenicity of Diet Coke is like 77 of them in one sitting, like, before you get into the cancer-causing, you know, domain. Who's drinking that many?

Yeah, not a lot of people. And more, like, granted, there's more recent research showing that the equivalent of two to three cans can cause anxiety, like, in rodent models. And it was weird because they even showed, like, anxiety that gets passed onto the offspring, maybe aspartumies, like, affecting genetics and sperm in some way. But, again, like, it's a pretty far cry to correlate that to rodent models and then tell somebody, you know, Diet Coke is going to make you fat and unhealthy. Like, it's, it's, they're a bigger fish to fry. They're a bigger fish to fry. What do you think of those machines, like those people now, everyone's, it's all the rage. Like, you put these electromagnetic things on your body and you work out with them and it stimulates the muscle.

What do you think of that? Well, I mean, like the OG ones, like the as seen on TV, like six-pack abs with the, like, the stomach pulsing. Well, those pulsing, or not even that one so much, but like there's like these body suits now that you can wear. Yeah, yeah, but the original ones were like the abs. And for me, as somebody who, like, appreciates the value of hard work and blood, sweat, and tears and, like, getting the job done in the gym, I always thought it was kind of gimmicky. And then I actually tried one of the full-body electrical muscle stimulation suits, and it's not a walk in the park. It's hard. Like, to actually get, like, the muscle stimulation, A, it's a pretty significant contraction.

B, it's a dashboard or a control unit that's bypassing your central governor, your brain, which sometimes forgets how to recruit certain motor units as you go through life. So all of a sudden, you're using new muscles that you've never used before. So you're ungodly sore the next day in many cases. It is like your body temperature goes through the roof because you're using a whole bunch of muscles all at the same time. It is, it would fall into the category of like a biohack for muscle and they are effective. I would say the downside is they're a little bit just inconvenient to get on and get in and out of and everything. and they also, if you're not careful, can induce a pretty high amount of soreness.

And that's my problem is like whenever I'm doing a workout, like I really want to feel it. And whenever I've used those EMS suits, I'm just like useless for days. Really? Yeah. Well, this is funny. I don't know if you're like this, but sometimes if I've got like an international flight or a period of time where I know I'm going to be sedentary, I'll crush a really hard workout before that. Just so I'm just like less antsy.

Right. You know, obviously, I think, you can't work out now anyway. Yeah, and I'll use an electrical muscle stimulation suit before something like that because I know I'm just like, dude, I'm going to be so sore. I'm not going to want to work out anyways. And so I'll use it before a period of time where I know I'm going to be like super sedentary. I like that. It's a good little hack. Give me some of all the things you've done, what is the one thing that you think is like extremely effective that like the one biohack that's like what that would shock people and the one that's like so useless that like, you know, you kind of like we're into years ago. or that's overhyped that there's no bang further above. Like a buy, like a technology or just like a practice or anything? Well, because you're like a guinea pig. You've tried everything.

Yeah, I would say that. So let's cut straight to the useless since we were just talking about fat, any of those like so-called thermal burning agents, like pre-workouts that amp up fat oxidation or anything like that, it is true that like green tea extract, you know, the EGCG, caffeine, any of these central nervous symptoms, They do shift the body into a state of higher fat oxidation, but it's such a small bump that you're never going to lose any appreciable amount of weight using some kind of like a thermic burning agent. So that would be one that I'm still surprised at seeing those marketed like raspberry ketone extract or whatever.

And then something surprising that I think might also be kind of like controversial as well is I think GLP agonists are some of the most useful. weight loss compounds that we've ever developed through science and can be incredibly helpful for people who have difficulty controlling their appetite, who want to lose weight, who want to manage lipids, who want to, like, decrease liver enzymes. There's even evidence now with effects on neural inflammation. And I actually think they're really useful drugs. I think they're prescribed in a dosage is too high. Like if you go to a doctor and just get a standard prescription for like red at true tide or something like that, it's such a high dose that you get nauseous and you lose all enjoyment like it's almost like amhedonic for life in general like you

lose just like the dopaminergic response to not just food but a lot of things which is why depression is one of the side effects of some of these drugs and it slows gastric motility so you get constipation and gastric upset and you lose muscle because even though you hear you're supposed to go to the gym and lift weights and eat enough protein if like your favorite like protein smoothie or steak makes you just super nauseous and you want to throw up. You're not going to eat enough protein. Then you go to the gym and you feel flat because you're not eating enough calories. They don't want to lift weights. But smaller dosages, we're talking like, for example, like one-tenth of the doses, something like Reda-Trutide. It's like just enough of a stimulus to where somebody

who has difficulty controlling calories can resist food much better than they would be able to do in the absence of that and not have a ton of the other side effects. And because there's a lot of other an emerging body of research-proven system-wide effects of some of these agonists. I think that they're actually, like, pretty cool and useful new thing for a lot of people. So you're talking about the one that it works on the three receptors, right? Red at Trutide does. Yeah, it works on GLP, a few different hormone or appetite and satiate. Do they calm-county?

Do they calm-county? Do they call? GELP, Grelin, and one called GIP. How is that different than trizepatite? I think trizepatize is a dual agonist. So it's two. It's two. So Ozempic is like old school.

Yeah. Then you have trizepatite. I think it's one. Ozepic is one. And there's a new one that's coming out. It's like five. Five? Yeah.

What is that one called? I don't even remember. I can tell you it's probably hard to pronounce. I can definitely say that. Reptatututut is hard enough. It is. And they compound that already? You can, like, if you work with a good functional medicine doc who can get stuff like that

from a compounding farm. Oh, really? There's a new company called Peptual that's doing, like, you'd get on phone with a doctor and you have, like, a console with the doctor, and then they can prescribe you peptides after that, but they're not, like, sold for human research peptides. Like, they're actually, like, clean peptides. I'm all about finding sustainable ways to optimize performance. The kind of work that actually moves the needle,

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So you believe in the microdosing, microdosing at a really small amount for all. If you just want to like turn off the food noise, what would you say the dose like should even be? not i'm not a doctor but you play one can't take anything that i take as medical advice okay what would you do for me theoretically i would inject like 250 micrograms of red at true tide on like monday wednesday and friday and then just see what happens and most people will find that they have way better calorie control really but that's how is it oh and we should also say this though like back to like the people who risk over training there are risks of like if you have an eating disorder and you struggle with anorexic or body image issues and you actually need to gain

weight and you look in the mirror and you think you're fat but you're actually not and you look fine or you're too skinny like this would be a bad idea for you right but people don't know anymore if they are or not that's the problem yeah if you're anorexic you don't see yourself as anorexic a lot of times that's a problem so what i'm saying is like i just know there's probably at least one person who's like are you going to hurt a lot of people putting advice like this out I will admit that if you have any disorder, like, these are not good compounds to be around. No, they're terrible compounds to be around. But if you have not looked around, have you not noticed that everybody is thin now? I feel like everybody's taking a GLP1. Like, I've noticed that

a lot. I live in North Idaho, not. Okay, we don't live in L.A. But I do know of the phenomenon that you're talking about, and I've observed it, you know, mostly in like pop culture. And I think there are a lot of people on these. I mean, like, again, like, if you're not losing muscle and you're, but I think many of the people you're talking about are on a standard dose, they probably are losing muscle. Well, this is what I'm concerned about. What happens when you get off of these things? Even if you're microdosing, right? Like, is this something that people have to stay on forever? Like, what happens if, you know, after a year, they're very expensive these things, right? So let's see after a year, like, how do you titrate off this thing?

Are you going to gain all the weight back? Because you're not really changing the behavior. you're just changing your ability to think about it at that moment because you're medicated. My response might be a little surprising, but I think that's less of a risk than you would imagine. Because even though at the standard high dosages, the yo-yo-wake-in is definitely an issue. Because if you go for me, like, super nauseous, I want to throw up around food and that finally goes away. And you're like, thank God, I can have a steak. I get that. And there could be yo-yo-weight gain related to that.

But if we're talking about what I was just recommending, like microdosing, it's like training wheels. Like if you have gone for such a long period of time being obsessed with food and you've almost forgotten what it feels like to not think about food all the time. And then you do something for four or eight or 12 weeks that retrained your brain, how to not think about food all the time. And then you stop using that. You still maintain the recognition of or the sense of what it feels.

feels like to not be hungry or what it feels like to resist to food. What's your take on? And I'm actually talking about this from personal experience. Like, I have for almost a year now mess around with these things, like just as self-experimentation because I can pick a lot of stuff. Like, I've taken a standard dose just to see what that feels like for a week and it's horrible. And I've taken the baby doses and then just like not taking them at all. And I can tell you, like, if you take a baby dose and it suppresses hunger mechanisms and

then you stop using it, it really is like training rules. you're like, oh, like, even though I'm not on this anymore, I've taught myself that I wasn't eating that cheesecake because I was hungry. I was eating it just because I had poor satiety mechanisms, and I don't actually need to eat that. Right. So you kind of remember. Yeah. But then eventually, don't you go back to then just old patterns and old behaviors? I don't know. But think about it like electrical muscle stimulation. It's like if I use an EMS suit to cheat my brain into firing, let's say, a muscle that a lot of people forget how to use, like the glute medias, and then I quit using electrical muscle stimulation. My body now

remembers that that muscle is turned back on and I can start using it more when I'm doing squats and lunges and bandwarks or whatever in the gym. So I think that in many cases, in like exercise and fitness and nutrition, you can use a little bit of better living through science for training wheels. I mean, people even do this with sex, right? Like they'll use Viagra to induce an erection in a man who doesn't have true erectile dysfunction. but who just has like this mental block to getting an erection. And then once a guy realizes that, oh, I can't actually get it up. I'm not broken.

You can actually taper off the Viagra and they don't have the erectile issues anymore. Yeah, I guess that's true, right? Like you're just kind of like proving to yourself that you can do it in a way or showing yourself that you can do it. Yep. That makes sense to me. Yeah. Because do you have food noise, though? Could you said, I can't imagine.

Do I personally have food noise? Oh, sure. Yeah. And you know what? I don't anymore. You don't. I don't anymore. And I think it's because of GLPs.

So it just stopped recently because of the fact that you're microdosing? Yeah. Really? Even when I'm not using it. Like just being able to just like go, you probably know the feeling like walking into a restaurant with a bunch of friends and you're starving. Let's order. And appetizing. Get the food out here.

Now it's just like you can just, you know, or I, for example, can just like sit there and talk for 45 minutes and not be like. like scanning the menu frantically to make sure that when they come, I'm able to get the order in. Right. And again, like, you do have to be careful because you can under-eat, you know. But you're someone who's, like, if you, you have to do all these things to keep weight on. So I would think that someone like you would not have that food noise, because you can technically eat whatever you want and nothing happens to.

I can eat a lot of food and gain weight, but then at the same time, the best way I can explain this is that constantly thinking about food can be distracting, like when you're just like thinking about or planning your next meal. Like it is just a little bit distracting. And it's nice to be able to sit down to a meal when you've actually found the time and it's convenient enough to eat and eat and eat enough because you're not nauseous, but also have the ability to be able to like go a few hours and do some podcasts or whatever and not feel like you just, you have to eat.

Yeah. Right. It's a little hard to describe unless you're going on. It's the anxiety piece of it that is taken away. Yeah, exactly, yeah. But I'm careful not to under eat. Well, I mean, when you started all this, this whole thing, like 20 years, like, when did you start all this, like, guinea pigging stuff, like 20 years ago, 15 years ago?

Like, like, probably when I was bodybuilding in college. Because, like, bodybuilding is, you know, like the OG biohacking sports. Right. I try and never pre-work out. Like the gateway drug. I never did, like, drug, just because I couldn't afford them. You know, I was like a poor college student doing creatine and tuna fish. putting relish in the tunic fish to keep it low carb and like, you know, dipping hot dogs

and peanut butter. I mean, just like the cheapest calories I can get away with. But then there's also like certain pre-workouts. You're like, oh, what happens to the body about like 10 grams of creatine instead of five? And then going from that into Iron Man Triathlon, where you're just trying out a whole bunch of different things to survive out there for 10 hours. And then, you know, open water swimming and adventure racing and off school course racing, like a big part of it for me has been, like, fueling and feeding extreme sports and using that as, like, a testing ground. And then eventually, for me, just, like, being, you know, an influencer and a podcast or an author, it's a little bit of my prerogative now to just try things out to be able to report back

from almost, like, an immersive journalistic standpoint about what works. Is it weird to you, like, the evolution of, like, your career? Like, did you ever think this is what you'd be doing when you were 16 years old or 18 years? Or it's old? No. No. So I think it's a good idea. If you look at, for example, the habits of many of the founding fathers, and there's a great

book about this called The Pursuit of Happiness, one of the things that many of them and many high achievers and successful people value the most is time. And if you value time as much as, if not more than money, then you do plan out your days pretty strictly, like in terms of habit and routine and structure. And I am a creature of habit in that sense. But I also, from like a long-term business standpoint, keep myself pretty open to opportunities, not meaning I say yes to everything. I say no to a lot. But I have never, for better or worse, had a 10-year plan of where I want to be from a business and a career standpoint. Because I find that if I structure my days to be highly effective and efficient, to do lots of deep work, to not furter away

a lot of time, you know, doom scrolling and non-social media and engaging with pop culture, I can get a lot done. And when the opportunities come my way that I feel like I want to seize, I've got the ability to be able to seize them. And so, no, like, I never had a plan of, like, having a podcast for a long time or writing a bunch of books or... These are not books. These are manuals. Or tombs, whatever you want to call them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, it is kind of fun to be a little bit open. And at the same time, like, I'm never going to be a mega billionaire with that approach. Like, if you really want to be Uber wealthy, you have to have, like, long-term business plan and be building to sell.

And, you know, I have companies where we're a little bit more focused on that. Like my supplements company, like Keon, we actually have, like, really good long-term plans and growth plans and forecasting. Or we're just like me as a brand. I don't know about you, but it's kind of fun to keep things just, like, a little bit loosey-goosey. Yeah, loosey. But you've become, like, you've created a niche that there's not many people in, like, biohacking that you can really call to. Like, when I think of a biohacker, I think of you or your friend, right?

So I think there's only a few people that's, like, are doing this thing with real gusto. And I wanted to always know what the trajectory, like, if you didn't do this, what were you thinking you were going to do? Like, you were doing these iron mans and you're living in Idaho and you've got a bunch of kids. seems to be so surprised, by the way. I only have two kids. Well, I guess, two more than people thought. I have twins. Two kids all at once.

Yeah, twin, seven, two boys. I thought I had three. No, that I know of. We have goats and chickens and kids. You have goats and chickens. He's living on a farm. I mean, you know, like, what would you have done if this didn't work out for you? Honest answer is the one thing that I always love to do and knew that I would do.

in some way somehow is to teach. I love to learn new things, not just for the sake of learning new things, but to teach people. You can see it. I like to see people's eyes light up when they understand some concepts. And so, like, honestly, if you want to look at this from just like a formal understandable standpoint, I probably would have been a teacher in some way or another. But you are kind of a teacher. Yeah. So you're basically doing all of these things kind of like, and like you you come back to people and say this, but you do so many things. So then what would be like, because over the years, I mean, I'm just trying to think of all the wacky things I've seen you do and put on and the sleep mechanisms and like, would you say

most of those things are kind of like. I'm just waiting for the red light on the balls question. Yeah. What's the craziest thing you did to your crotch? Yeah. What was the craziest thing you've ever experimented with? There are so many things that like I don't think are that crazy. because I just live in this world, but a few examples would be I went to the only state where it's legal, Texas, and had my plasma taken out and replaced with 10 bags of young 18 to 25-year-old healthy male donor plasma as like a full oil change for my body. I have gone under anesthesia in Utah several times and done a full-body stem cell procedure where they inject everything, towed a head,

to her, to sex organs to everything with basically a stem cell soup. I've gone to Tijuana, Mexico and had all of my blood pulled out via the, what's it called in your neck, the jugular in the neck, and pass through a filter that pulls out like spike proteins and, you know, anything that that's basically built up in your body and then had that over the course of three days re-infused back into my body. I've had stem cells injected just about everywhere that you can imagine. imagine and those are a few of the things that I've done. One that's super interesting is I've done something that some people might have heard of called a stellate gangly nerve block where a doctor uses ultrasound guided imaging to direct a super long needle right next to your carotid artery.

So you need to be super careful and injects it like a nerve block right into your vagus nerve on one side. And then because it's pretty much impossible to swallow or chew if you do both sides at once the next day you go in and you do the other side and it completely resets your entire vagus nerve and you set up from the table film like you've like smoked the joint and had a glass of wine all at once and your HRV just goes through the roof for a couple of weeks normally this is this is something that they would do for somebody who has like extreme you know PTSD for example but it's also just good for for relaxing the nervous system and then there was about an eight-year stint where I did very high amounts of just about every psychedelic and entheogen known to human

kind in very large amounts just to see what they did to the brain. Like which ones and which one, which one was the best one? I wouldn't say that any of them are that great because I, well, I'll come right out and say that I think that it's a very dangerous place to be taking heroic doses of large amounts of psychedelics because traditionally they've been used to divine with the spirit world and I actually believe that you cross a spiritual portal and you can get exposed to different entities and interact with, you know, demons, angels, spirits, et cetera. And that's a dangerous place for a human being to be.

And that's one of the reasons that I don't mess around with any of that stuff anymore, besides like occasionally, you know, microdosing with psilocybin or something like that. So the craziest one is not one, but there is a place that very few people know about based a little bit outside of Nashville, Tennessee out in the sticks, this giant like mansion with barbed wire fences all over it and a giant sign on the gates that says we don't call the cops. And they have several people who work there who have undergone some pretty intensive training and are able to expertly combine like a whole bunch of different entheogens together to almost turn default or downregulate the default mode network while simultaneously turning your brain into like a supercomputer. And then your entire experience for anywhere from six to like 30 hours in some cases is recorded as you're talking. And I did that eight times over the course of three years. And that was probably the just the craziest in terms of like piles and piles and piles of papers and reams of material, just like written from my brain being in a totally different state. What is it safe? And now, you know, just like business ideas, relationship ideas, different breakthroughs, you know, dealing with history of past things.

You know, the reason that a lot of people do these things. But again, like, I'm not saying this to brag about having, like, done lots of drugs or something like that or even to endorse that in most cases for most people. What I mean is that it's much better in most cases to climb to the top of Mount Everest rather than being dropped off by a helicopter on top of Mount Everest. And a lot of people will hear me say something like that and not do the work, things like prayer and fasting and working on your relationships. and there's like, yes, I want to go do the drugs and get rid of the issues. And that's why you see a lot of people, like, going back to proof of their 38th ayahuasca retreat to finally fix their issues. So I'm not saying that this stuff is, like, recommended, safe, a permanent solution.

You asked me about crazy stuff that I've tried and done. And there was a phase where I used a lot of those kind of compounds. And how long, where was, like, what did it do to your brain and how long were you affected? When you did that thing in the sticks in Nashville, what was the cocktail of things that they gave you. And do you remember, or did you use any of the ideas that you saw that you wrote, like in your life, in real life? I want to say the cocktail stuff. I just don't know about, like, boundaries and legality and stuff like that. It's many of the, of like, the entheogens that you would know about, like, you know, whatchuma and lesirgamy's and psilocybin and, you

know, ayahuaskin and even like a lot of different synthetics, but kind of combined in a very precise fashion based on you and your needs and your body weight and your size and what it is you're looking for, et cetera. Do you do by yourself, by the way? A few times. And then I've also done it six times with my wife. And it actually was like really, really, really deepened our relationship to do something like that together. And again, like, I'm super cautious here because I also don't want to like have somebody who's going through a relationship issue and be like, oh, it's time to go like to Tennessee and do drugs. But maybe it could be helpful. actually.

Because people don't know what's out there if they don't know. Like the thing that you're speaking about, I don't think I've ever heard of it. And I hear lots of things, right? So it kind of flies under the radar also because it's not legal. Well, there's go. It's like one of the reasons of being conscious here is like, I don't want to get people in trouble. Right. Because, I mean, it's not as though people aren't doing this stuff in the U.S.

So it happens, but just want to be kind of careful. I would say that as far as the effects. You could make an argument that the long-term effects of many of these in theogens or psychedelics, when used properly, can be long-term neuroplasticity and a changing of the brain that makes you less of a ruminator or less anal retentive or less OCD or less ADD or less of an asshole. And I would say that I actually experienced many of those type of effects, just like the ability to be able to think more creatively, act more freely.

and be, you know, back to the creature of habit thing, which is a good thing, but like a little bit more free-flowing in that respect. But I would say, like, of anything, like the number one thing that I got out of all of that stuff, if I could name one, was being able to, back to the training wheels piece, like, talk to my wife about anything and just, like, be super transparent, honest with her and her with me and just see each other as, like, like actual real infinite spirits and souls and us doing something like that. You hear about MDMA therapy. It would be kind of like a baby version of that. Or MDMA therapy would be like a baby version of what we did. And it definitely transformed our relationship. I think that it's not the only way that we could have transformed our relationship.

That's just the, you know, I have a pastor and says God draws straight with crooked lines, right? And that just happens to me the way that we got. to where we are right now. But again, like, you know I'm being super cautious right now. Just because drugs, and I'm like, I'm thinking about my words carefully, like, just because drugs can be so dangerous for so many people, depending on, on your spiritual health, on your psychological health. So, you know, just like the GLPs and everything else, like a lot of this stuff is like,

just because I'm talking about something I did in Guinea, like, doesn't mean I recommend it for everybody. Right. This is not being recommended for the average person. I understand that. Take anything as advice. Do not. Because you said it perfectly, like, people can either climb Mount Everest or they want to get

dropped on top of it, which is so true. Like, this is someone who's done everything and is, like, basically uses his career in life to be, like, a professional guinea pig. So, like, you're, like, not the same. Like, if you're sticking, like, massive needles in your, you know, your jugular, that's not. Well, I didn't do a doctor, did it? Well, that, you personally, meanwhile, you were going to do your own IV outside.

So, I mean, I've done that. Well, there you go. So I'm saying, like, you're not the normal, the average person, right? Why did you do it? If it helped you and your wife's relationship, why did you do it six times? Why didn't you just do it once and, like, be done? Why did you do it over and over? Because it was so profound and deepening our relationship that we came back and did it several times.

Also, as a part of that particular organization, you're kind of like supposed to do it, multiple times. It's kind of like a build phase. And then one of the reasons that I just hinted at that I stopped doing it was because I realized, and like this is one of the only podcasts in a really long time that I've even talked about this stuff. I realized that for every like nine people that it might help, there's one person who gets like super psychologically or spiritually messed up from this stuff. And so now I'm really careful like saying, oh, you know, like go to an theogens and pharmacological psychedelics and ayahuasca and go find God with DMT just because I think like these are like the nuclear bombs of the spiritual world and you have to be way more careful

with this stuff than what a lot of people think. Right. You said something also but like crossing over like you said like the spirits and angels and all that. Like what do you mean by that? You mean like that's what's dangerous like you people are doing these things and it's like entering into a different universe and they don't even know it? The way that humans have traditionally interacted with the spiritual world and pierce the veil and cross the portal is typically via the use of some kind of chemical compound. Right. puts the brain into a state where I personally don't believe it's just a soup of different

neurochemicals, but I believe you are actually crossing into a different dimension. and the fact that people from so many different walks of life who have never spoken to each other see similar elements of sacred geometry, see similar entities like purple fairies and praying mantises, have similar experiences, encounter each other in that space, even without knowing that each other were in that space,

like seeing each other's spirits in that world. Some people coming back literally like possessed with almost like an entity or a demon on board. Really? People being able to go to, like, South America and keep getting pulled back there because, you know, a shaman or someone who has the ability to be able to do this is somehow, like, cursed or possessed them.

And even if you look at, like, here's a perfect example, like, aspiral travel, like, the ability to be able to, like, go somewhere else in your mind while your body is in one place. Like, LSD would be, like, one of, the traditional methods with which elements of the world of like sorcery and witchcraft have done that, like a witch riding on a broom, like the like the stereotypical like Halloween silhouette image of a witch writing on a broom is influenced by the fact that women sorcerers used to dip their brooms in a lusurgeny like an LSD like compound and then apply that vaginally for the

rapid absorption to then be able to travel mentally to a different world to be able to interact with different beings, including the spiritual world. You know, now it's like a witch riding on a broom, but that was where that originally came from. So if you talk with someone who's done like, I don't know, like ayahuasca or a heroic dose of psilocybin or especially DMT, there's very few people who do something like that

and come back denying the existence of a spiritual world, especially if they were like an atheist before that, because you really do cross over this portal where you realize like there's a whole different dimension around us that we can't see in our native state, but that certain chemical compounds that grow on this planet or that are synthesized

allow us to be able to delve into and interact with. Do you know, have you ever heard of this place it's called Rhythmia? It's in, have you been there before? I bet you know. No, I haven't been there. Oh, you haven't been there?

I'm familiar with it. Oh. They sent me there. Like, I did this, like, they invited me to go there. I'm like, this is like five years ago. And I went there with my sister and I think just, why not?

I thought it would be something's fun to try, you know? be a fun little vacation. And what it is basically, you're doing like ayahuasca from like a week. Yeah. Okay, it was, to say it was not

my cup of tea is probably an understatement. But it didn't, the weird thing is, Ben, that we did it, like, you do it five nights

in a row. And they give you your portion and every night, it's a different type of ayahuasca. Yeah. But it didn't, I didn't feel it, any of the nights.

I didn't get me, like, I was, so what they do is, they put you in that big room, you're with a bunch of people, strangers, stuck there between 12, like for 12 hours, everyone's tripping. And people were demonic. That's what I was going to say to you. It was really actually very scary because I'm lying there like,

oh my God, this is so not, like not for me, it's not working. And they won't let you leave because it's like, I think, a danger to that. It's like a risk for them. But I'm sitting there and there's like a million people in this room who are literally like screaming and crying and barfing and like pooping. It was unbelievably insane to me. And in my head, I'm like, they have to be, like, they're literally out of their minds. They're like in another place because in real, no matter how high you are, no matter how drunk you are, people don't act and respond like that. It just doesn't happen. I've never seen a human with, like, other than in that situation be that like out of their minds like seriously it's crazy so is that why these things

tend to like help people with trauma like are they seeing things that are otherwise unable to see because they're not in the right dimension to like heal themselves does that make sense a lot of hard charging high achievers who like no offense are you're not sometimes wired up to be like very controlling yeah that's one of the reasons that like they are are successful, have probably like you experienced a little bit more difficulty, like turning off the brain, down regulating the default mode network. And in many cases, there is, there is training and pre-integration that's involved to actually help to teach you how to do that. Or in some cases, people will just like carpet bomb you with more of the substance, which has biochemical implications

for days and days afterwards. I think it's better to just like, you know, do things like breathwork that teach you how to be comfortable in that space before you go in so that the standard dose is able to shift you into the state that. So have you ever heard of this before? Yeah. You have? No, I'm not the first person to tell you that. Oh, no.

No, like that would be roughly translated as what would be called in the world of psychedelics, like the ability to be able to let go, right? And many people just ego is on board, and it's very hard to let the ego not be on board because that is a feeling that takes you out of the safety and control that is part of your success and that you've grown to become dependent on. But that if you're looking for the breakthroughs like physically or more appropriate, like mentally or spiritually from something like that, like at some point you have to turn off that part of the brain and just let go to get the breakthroughs that you want. And related to the trauma piece, sometimes it is the ability of

compounds like that to be able to train the brain how to let go of the control and how to understand once again what it feels like not to be gripping tightly and clutching tightly and to know that that's a safe place that one doesn't need to be afraid of but i think probably when it comes to trauma and again like i'm no psychedelic expert like i'm just you know this is not something i was like like you know i don't have a degree in mushrooms um but the the the ability in that state to be able to access past memories and then process them when you are not in a state of full control is one of the things that they attribute to like the success of something like that being able to help someone release past traumas or deal with them as they come up again.

It's kind of like stem cells. If you were to go to that place in Utah that I went to and get a full body stem cell procedure, you get all sorts of aches and pains from all the old injuries that the stem cells just like reinitiate. Your body remembers all that inflammation. The stem cells go to battle to help to fix those areas that were never fully fixed. It's kind of similar with something like psychedelics. They open up memories of these traumas that you just haven't given yourself a chance to deal with in the past and open them up when your brain is in a state where it's far more receptive to seeing those things in a new light and dealing with them.

But then why are people going back over and over again? Like, why doesn't it cure somebody or it does help them for, let's say, a while? And then, like, I'm just talking about my friends who gone and done it and worked on them. like they were fine and it worked and helped them but then they went back again and again and again comes down to the getting dropped off by a helicopter at the top of Mount Everest piece rather than learning how to climb Mount Everest you have to get to a point where you understand that that life is full of incidents that cause shame and guilt and fear and there will always be times in your life when things come up that leave you feeling less worthy, leave you feeling full of shame,

leave you feeling guilty about something you've done or about something someone's done to you. And one of the ways to deal with that is to write a check, get on a plane, pop a pill, and try to nuke it once again. And now I'm speaking from a very, like, biased perspective because I'm also a man of faith. And I believe that, and this is what I love about the Christian faith in particular, is that is a faith of forgiveness, meaning no matter what you've been through, no matter how horrible of a person you think you are, no matter how horrible the things are that have been done to you the the jesus christ figure in christianity is there because the story of christianity is that god sent a sacrificial lamb to die on the cross which was a very like painful thing to happen

but that happened so that we can then take all that shame and fear and guilt and just let it go by, for example, just dropping to our knees and praying that God would release it and laying all of that at the foot of the cross. There's a beautiful book about this called Pilgrim's Progress by this guy that's just struggling with this huge backpack, this burden for years. And then in a part of the story, he gets to the base of this hill where there's a cross and all of a sudden the heavy burden just comes tumbling off his back and he stands up and he's light and he's free. And even though psychedelics can do something like that,

it's temporary. It's never permanent. And I think the only way to truly get rid of shame and guilt and fear in a permanent way is through an interaction with the divine in a way that goes beyond just drugs and in a way that goes to more of the Christian idea of just pure forgiveness, no matter who you are, and knowing that you are free to leave that and get rid of it because someone else has taken it for you. Wow, that was a big answer. And what happens if you're not Christian and you're Jewish or another religion? What happens?

What happens to what? To us, to us Jews, or to anybody who's not like a Christian person. Is it that we have to, could you say you're a man of faith and all these things? but you are, and is your message mostly for people to believe in something bigger and greater than themselves, right? And to... Yeah, to believe that, like, you as a human being can be forgiven and not carry shame and guilt and fear around your whole life because there is a divine being who wrote a greater story for your life and that divine being loves you enough to accept you for who you are,

not that you should like want to continue or continue to be like a bad person because of that, but who loves you for who you are. And that's why I think that not just spirituality, but religiosity, like having like woven into your life in some way. We have that in a Jewish world. It's like a very freeing way to live, just to know there's a greater purpose written for your life and no matter what you are unconditionally loved yeah we have that in the jewish world where i believe it having a higher believing something higher than yourself as well but we have something called it's like it's a yomki poor it's like what we do too it's like when you're repenting and all the things like that i do agree with you i think that's really important to like

it kind of closes the entire pie it's like very much not like i think it's i see when people don't have any of that in their lives, there's a lack of something, right? And there's a searching for something. Right. The eternal hole in the soul that can only be filled by something eternal because there's like this gnawing that way, you're telling me we're a bunch of like chunks of flesh and blood, there's like floating on a giant rock through space. And then like at the end of the day, like you just kick the can one day and just game over. And it's over. And to me, that's kind of like a hopeless way to live versus like there is, there's like a devised. mind being that created the planet and there's immortality and an afterlife and there's way

more to life than just like you and me being here for 80 or 90 or for like the best little biohackers like 150 years. Like I find that a really, really hopeful and happy way to live just to know that that there's like something greater outside of me and like a greater purpose written for my life. I want to take a quick break from this episode to thank our sponsor Therisage. Their trilight panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations and places in my body

where honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go-to. Plus, it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therisage trite everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, and it's really effective. Head over to Therisage.com right now and use code be bold for 15% off. This code will work sitewide. Again, head over to Therisage, T-H-E-R-A-S-A-G-E dot com and use code B-Bold for 15% off any of their products.

Have you gotten more into faith and religion as you got older, or did you grow up like this? I grew up in a Christian church, like a Christian house, but I think, I think like going through the hard knocks of life, just like experiencing just like, you know, living paycheck to paycheck and trying to make ends meet and trying to find your purpose in life and, you know, making marriages work and raising kids. I think that all of that develops faith. I mean, there's a saying that gold is refined through fire, right? And I think that as you grow, especially through hardships, that it, like, without a doubt for me personally, like, that has deep in my faith. For some people, like, weakens their faith, like, there must not be a God if all these bad things are happening to me.

But my perspective is that in many cases, you know, bad things happen. so that the good things can shine through at an even higher level. Yeah. I mean, I always, that's, I like that. I mean, it's good to think that way, right? It's a very optimistic way of seeing things. By the way, I know it's been like, how many hours have we been? It's like hours.

I didn't ask you anything about, like, testing. Like, I did this environmental toxicity test. Did you ever take one of these tests before? and it says that I have like super high arsenic poisoning. Yeah. Do you find these tests to be accurate? How important do you think these tests are? What are some of the tests that you think are the most important thing people should do for their health?

For the environmental toxin test, the only thing I can tell you is try it again under a different name and see what happens. What do you mean? And I say that because they can be kind of notorious for giving you wildly varying results from test to test. Really? Now, the thing that we do know is we live in a toxic environment, and it's always a good idea to be cognitive mold, microtoxins, microplastics, but I would not put all your faith into a test like that. The test that I think you can get good data from is just like once in a lifetime, a genetic test, just to see what kind of stuff you're hard wired up to potentially get a disease for preventively. Basic blood panel, you know, I do it like once a quarter just to look at, you know, lipids and vitamins. Yeah.

Um, you know, just like the standard complete bug count, comprehensive metabolic panel type of stuff, some kind of test once a year for micronutrients that the basic blood panel wouldn't cover. This would be, for example, there's one called a metabolomics. So look at fatty acids and amino acids, fungal markers and little micronutrients that a basic blood test won't give you. Some type of hormone panel, uh, I think blood will give you a snapshot, but saliva and urine can give you a little bit more of like a 20, 24-hour running cycle of your hormones, because hormones do fluctuate throughout the day. And then the last couple I would think about would be basically everybody's favorite, some kind of a poop test, like a school. Is that the Dutch tank? No. Dutch is urine. There's one called the Genova diagnostics that'll do like yeast, parasites, fungus, bacterial

balance. And I think that's good to do just like once a year or like as symptoms arise if you've been traveling or whatever, you know, and you want to see if you got a parasite because you come back from Asian and you've got diarrhea or something like that. talking about the poop test. What is the poop test for? Bacterial balance, inflammation in the gut, yeast, parasites, fungal markers, clues for whether or not you might have leaky gut or gut permeability issues. It's a pretty good test. But people don't just get it. Usually like a functional medicine doctor would prescribe it if necessary, right? There are some websites where you can

start an account and order some of these to your house, but usually a functional medicine and Doc is going to order most of these tests. And the last one I'd, like, think about would be, like, a good food allergy test, not one that's going to give you, like, a laundry list of false positives. But, like, uh, Zoomer is a good one. Cyrex, CY, R-E-X. That's a good one. So if I'm, if I'm, like, coaching somebody and writing out their nutrition plan and

their training plan and everything, it's usually like those five or six tests that I recommend that they get for me to be able to sit down with that and then, like, maybe some wearable data, like a blood glucose and a, and, you know, an aura. or a whoop or something like that, that usually gives me quite a bit of information to say, okay, well, here's a relatively customized way for you to supplement, eat, you know, move, exercise, et cetera. I have to ask you about your skin.

I do all the time, but your skin's really nice. Thank you. And it looks like a baby's behind. It's really, like, smooth and young looking. What are you doing? A tire streaks on it. No, there's nothing. I think, like, I think it's genetics, personally.

but is there any kind of trick that you can tell us about how to look 10 years younger that you've tried? Rapid fire, besides using one of those face age apps, so like 10 years younger, would be underlying building blocks for skin. So earlier we were talking about things like collagen, you know, amino acids, protein absorption, anything that's going to help with the building blocks for the skin.

Do you believe, hold on, I'm going to do rapid fire, do you believe in collagen supplements? Yes. You think that helps? If you want really good skin, if you do like 20 to 40 grams of collagen and up to 20 grams of essential amino acids a day, that's good for the skin. Something that will increase blood flow to the skin. And there are different camps about this. Some people think a derma roll are just like ripping open the face and like microneedling pens better.

I dermoral. I've done it for like 10 years once a week. And then right after I derm roll, I use a clay mask. I use one made by a company called Ali Tora. And so I just leave that on for like 20. minutes, and then three times a week, I do a red light mask, which is just like the, you've seen before, like that. Yeah, I use the Therisage one. Like alien. The one I have is call is, Therislage is good. I restore, like the letter I restore is the one that I'm using.

Oh, yeah, I saw that one. And then for, so basically, once a week, dermeroling clay mask, three times a week, the red light, good collagen, protein, and amino acids. And then the last thing, besides just the basics, like don't go out in the sun too much and burn your skin. is for products. I use young goose. I use young goose. I think it's a really good skincare company because they have like these bioabsorbable anti-aging peptides. I feel like my face has gotten better since I started to use those. Really? Yeah, in a good way. Yeah. Because I use their, yeah, they have like any, no, what do they have in it? Permanidine. Is that what is called? What is spermidine? Apparently it helps with DNA repair of the skin. Kind of like the

salmon sperm facials that you can get now? Yeah, but isn't a lot of that stuff not, like, is pretty hyped? Probably overhyped. Yeah. You know, especially just because salmon sperm facial probably sells a lot of procedures. Yeah. But I do think, like, you can make a case that spermidine can have some anti-aging effects on the skin. How about all those things? Yeah. I mean, I actually, I do like my young goose. I have, like, all, like, a bunch of their products. Actually, it's very, very nice. You were talking earlier about that plasma that you got taken at, you got, like, a bunch of 25-year-old people. The plasma replacement therapy. Is that the same thing that that don't die Brian Johnson did with his son? Yes, except I didn't use his son. Okay, good. But you used

some other random person? Same procedure. But it's a different person. I don't know who it was. The bag just said healthy male 18 to 25-year-old donor plasma. But how do you know that's how do you know? Trust. So you can have some. Nobody's died there yet. Really? I mean, like, yeah, I trust. the doctor like i vet these people i don't just go to random fly-by-night clinic and you know you know go through the nail salon in the back right right right plasma so that actually you did the same thing that he was doing yeah it was the same but you did it just one time yeah but i would do it again it's not inexpensive but how much is it again i think it's about said and done around 40k to do 40k procedure yeah but i felt so good after doing it it's one of those things where i would consider

or like maybe every five years or something like that doing it. What does it do? You literally just like feel, this is going to sound like super broad, but you feel younger. You just like recover faster and you have higher libido and your head goes clear and you sleep better. It was one of the things I've done like immediately. I felt like unstoppable, almost like too good.

Like I need more things to do type of energy. How long did it last? At that level, about four weeks. And then, like, honestly, I did it, like, five months ago, and I still feel like I feel better, just like younger. Do you think that's why—and I might even say this to, like, blow smoke up your ass, but do you think that's why you look young because you did something like that? I think a lot of this stuff just adds up because I'm also, I've also done, you know, stem cells in the face and exosome facials. But I think the daily routine, like the daily in-and-out things that I do make a pretty big difference. It's just derm rolling, clay mask, red light, peptides on the face, just because you don't have to drive to a clinic and fall.

And you do that every day. Some of them are not every day. Like derming is once a week. Clay mask is once a week. Red light face masks three times a week. The young goose stuff, I never thought I'd use this many products, but I literally do like, I get their brochure and I do exactly what it says. It's like some kind of like serum, cream lotion, like four things in the morning and four things in the evening. That's what I do too.

I just nod and smile and do what it says. I do exactly the same thing. Okay, I think I can let you go now, considering everyone's sleeping back behind you. Even all the Reddicture tied in the world don't make me not start thinking about dinner or about now. You're so cute. Okay. By the way, Ben does have a new book out. It's actually a manual, or an encyclopedia, whatever you'd like to call it. It's called Boundless. It's a revised version of his other book, Boundless, because his brand is called Boundless. It is literally an encyclopedia. It's unbelievably. Just there's so much information on exercise on overall health optimization, brain, peptides, stem cells, energy, focus, vitality. I mean, it's just sex. We didn't even get to the sex part.

There's so much gut bacteria, gut health. You guys, it's amazing. Everything that he does, he, well, look, nothing is like, it's everything there's so much information. You guys have to pick the new one up because I think you revised it, what, five months ago? Yeah. So Ben Greenfield, check him out if you don't know who he is. And what else, Ben? Anything else? I think we covered in Alaska. Okay, bye, everybody. Plan the plane. I'm landing it.

Cool. Thanks, guys. Okay, bye.