Habits and Hustle - Episode 502: Lance Armstrong on VO2 Max, Endurance Genetics, and Why Cycling Beat Running

Episode Date: November 14, 2025

Listen to the full episode:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLW8bwsE_zE  How does a kid who started as a swimmer become one of the greatest cyclists of all time? In this Fitness Friday episode, Lance Armstrong joins me to break down his journey from age-group swimming to professional triathlon to the Tour de France.  We also discuss Lance's current training philosophy, why he doesn't push himself like he used to, and the mental toughness required to come back from a 20% chance of survival to win championships. Plus, the surprising influence his single mother had on his never-quit mentality. Lance Armstrong is a cancer survivor, former professional cyclist, and co-founder of Next Ventures. He won the Tour de France seven consecutive times. Today, he's a successful venture capitalist investing in health and wellness companies and has built a new life focused on family, business, and doing only what brings him joy. What we discuss: Transitioning from swimming to triathlon to cycling Why cycling beat running for Lance Discovering elite VO2 max at Cooper Clinic What makes the Tour de France so brutal How his mother shaped his never-quit mentality Thank you to our sponsor: Therasage: Head over to therasage.com and use code Be Bold for 15% off  Air Doctor: Go to airdoctorpro.com and use promo code HUSTLE for up to $300 off and a 3-year warranty on air purifiers. Magic Mind: Head over to www.magicmind.com/jen and use code Jen at checkout. Momentous: Shop this link and use code Jen for 20% off  Manna Vitality: Visit mannavitality.com and use code JENNIFER20 for 20% off your order  Prolon: Get 30% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program! Just visit https://prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN and use code JENNIFERCOHEN to claim your discount and your bonus gift. Find more from Lance Armstrong: Website: https://www.nextventures.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lancearmstrong/?hl=en  Find more from Jen: Website: https://www.jennifercohen.com/ Instagram: @therealjencohen   Books: https://www.jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: https://www.jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements

Hi, guys. It's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. Hey, friends, you're listening to Fitness Friday on the Habits and Hustle podcast, where myself and my friends share quick and very actionable advice for you becoming your healthiest self. So stay tuned and let me know how you leveled up. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to thank our sponsor, Momentus. When your goal is health span, living better, and longer, there are very few non-negotiables. One of them, quality. And when it comes to supplements designed for high performers, nobody does it better than Momentus. Momentus goes all in on NSF certification, which, which means every single batch is tested for heavy metals, harmful additives, and label accuracy.

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Let's kind of like chronologically do this, okay? Because when you were Little Lans, because you were not always, you weren't, you didn't start off as a cyclist, right? Right. You started off like you were doing swimming, I heard. So yeah. Swimming was my first serious sport. Do you still swim? Occasionally, it's funny, I, so when you're my age and you swim seriously, you would swim what they call masters.

Right, I know Masters. Right, but most people listening may not know master's. is it looks like a swim team for old people. Yeah. So I grew up swimming with kids. And if you're a serious swimmer at that age, you swim what they call age group swimming, right? So kids, when they're young, they can sort of do the summer country club swim league, which is just in the summer. Or if you swim year-round and you swim more serious, you swim age group, right?

It's like Michael Phelps, Katie Ledecki, they grew up swimming, age group swimming. so that means they swam twice a day, every day, 12 months a year. That's how I grew up swimming. So then when you get older, and you want to be a serious swimmer, you swim masters, right? And so that's when I, like 15 years ago, I started swimming again seriously. And the master's team that I swam with is like two blocks from my house. I could walk there every day. And I just, I don't go that often.

And I haven't been in a while, but I still enjoy swimming. I don't love chlorine, to be honest with you. Chlorine, you know, if I lived at the beach, I would probably swim open water. I'd probably swim almost every day. But the chlorine thing and it just kind of. It kind of seers you away from that. So my question more was like, okay, so you start off in swimming. Like how did you get into cycling?

Was it, did you have, it seems to me, like your endurance is off the charts genetically. Were you tested? Did you have like, did you, was it just something? How did you know that cycling was going to be the sport? You did swimming, which was an endurance thing. And then I started doing triathlons. Right. And then I turned pro in triathlon when I was 15.

Okay. And so then I knew that I was getting results as a 15-year-old kid racing against 30-year-old men. Right. That you didn't need to be in a lab to know that you had some, that I had the DNA or the talent to be an endurance athlete. But at that time, I did, I lived in, I grew up in Dallas. So I went, I got asked to go be tested at a place in Dallas called the Cooper Clinic,

which is pretty well known. It's a place that it's not dissimilar to Mayo Clinic or other places where folks will go and get tested. So I went as a young kid and the testing, you know, I did a VO2 max test and all these things. And the physiologist was like, wow, this is, I'm not sure we've seen a VO2 like this before. So, but again. Do you remember what it was? I mean, I'm 53. It was 40 years ago, so no, but it was high. Yeah, very, I heard it's 86. I don't know if that was right. That's what I read.

Who knows? Who knows? It's funny, V-O-2 is having a moment again. Like, I feel like, you know, when we were at that, when I was that age, and then when I was cycling and at the Olympic Training Center, we would test V-O-2 max. And then it kind of, you know, maybe it was prohibited because you needed all, you needed the lab, you needed the equipment. And now they've got these mobile units, and so it's having a moment again. It is. And so anyhow, but it's, it's, there's a lot of different variables when it comes to Piotomax.

But why, okay, because another endurance, like when they try, why cycling and not running? Like, why, why did you single out cycling? Well, a couple things. One, I enjoyed cycling more. Okay. That's a good reason. And who wouldn't. Yeah.

Right. I mean, if you're, if you have the option to, to, to go for four or five hours and see. 80 miles of beautiful terrain versus in no impact on the body versus you know you know seeing 15 miles of beautiful terrain and a lot of it i just i just and i was better at cycling i quickly figured out that that cycling was my strength now when i was a young kid and doing triathlons i could swim with the front group so i would come out of the water with the leaders i would come off the bike with the leaders and they would run away from the these guys that i would race with would run away from me. Because they were, I mean, they were 30-year-old men. They run a lot faster. And so, I mean,

I still would finish top 10, but I knew that cycling was going to be the best of those of the three. So then I started just gradually transition to cycling and I went to the Olympic Training Center and then I got selected for the junior world championships team, which was in 1989, which was in Moscow, which is kind of wild. I mean, this is, this would have been in August. of 89 before the wall came down like I was a 17 year old kid in Moscow like it was it was that was crazy right this is and and so that that was and then pretty much a year or two later I switched full time what how old were you when you won the first Tour de France how old were you um 27 years old

Your first one was 27. Yeah. I think that's right. I'm trying to do the math, 1989. Yeah, maybe 28, actually. Geez. Well, because what's, I want to, like, how do you train for that? Because I think people are, you hear it super grueling.

It's like, it's, it's, it's all true. It is cruel. Horrible. Like, people like, you hear like little rumblings, but people who are not cyclists or who don't follow it. Can you describe why it is. as grueling as people hear rumors to be, like, why is it so, and so dangerous on top of it? It's very dangerous. And, I mean, I think that's the thing that it's obviously an endurance event.

Obviously. It's three weeks. It's over 2,000 miles. It's every day. There are two rest days, but it's, you know, recovery is difficult. But there are 200 guys on the road all trying to be at the same place at the same time. So you're not just, and of course, we are on a team. In my generation, we had nine riders on the team, so we're racing against 190 other people.

It's hard to control that. And, you know, the roads are technical. There's crashes. There's mechanicals. And so there's a lot. Like, it's a mix of endurance. It's sort of NASCAR because you're fighting for position all the time. Strategy, politics, right?

Since you have to, the politics piece, when you think about it, if you're nine guys, trying to control 200. You have to be political. You can't, no team can control that. You're constantly trying to find allies and friends in that peloton. And those people that are your allies and friends on day two might be your enemies on day eight. Wow.

So you're constantly trying to figure out the dynamics of this, this living thing that's going down the road known as the peloton. And so, like, what's the trait, like, how do you train for the, that. Like, what's the training schedule? Like, how do you, because it takes a very particular mindset person to be able to even go through the grueling training schedule. Like, do you remember what you did day in, day out? I mean, well, first of all, there's a lot of racing beforehand. Okay. So it's not, you don't just show up to the tour and say, I've trained perfectly. I mean, we would do, you know, anywhere from 40 to 60 race days before that. And then,

And then obviously a lot of training, a lot of reconnaissance. Do you have to do weight training? Because you've got to be skinny, right? Like very small. Not a ton of strength training. So what do you, is it all endurance training? Like, did you do like mental mindset tricks? And do you like, how do you psychologically prepare for that?

Like, is there anything on that side? No. No, I mean, we, we, other than being convinced I was going to win. Like, no, exactly. But you have to believe, your belief system on yourself has to be so strong. like that you that you actually believe that you can actually yeah i mean not the not the first couple but after i got a couple under my belt i was i was pretty sure we were i mean look anything can happen you can have all these things i described accidents illness is bad log or just

bad luck you know caught out in a crosswind lose five minutes i mean this can but what made you like i guess what made you so much like this is the thing okay so i'm going to not beat around the Bush, obviously. Like, why is it that everybody on the tour, like, you got caught for doping, but everybody was doing it, right? So, like, the playing field right away. Technically, I didn't get caught, but that's another discussion. That's a whole other discussion. But my first... I was exposed, certainly exposed, but not caught. That's true. If that makes sense. No, explain it. I mean, because for people who don't, like, who are not familiar with, like, of course, I know, but people who are, like, younger who are listening, who don't really know

all the details of minutia, people would just say, yeah, Lance Armstrong got caught for doping, right? Which is, that's fine too. I mean, that's, that's, if that's, if that's, if that's the story that is, that has survived, then that's, that's fair too. But what I was, and I was just half joking, I mean, being caught, being caught, we obviously were tested every day. Right, right, right, right. So being caught would be like you tested positive. I mean, there was none of that. It was, It was way more complicated. It was more of a legal process. Yes.

Than it was a success of the legal system and not a success of the anti-doping system. But why do you think that you were made to be such a poster child? Like people, everybody was, my point was it's so grueling, it's so horrible. I feel like it seems to me the baseline was everybody was doing it and you still were in that baseline so much better and exceeded everybody else. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I think that's right. I think that that's not a popular answer, but the popular answer isn't an informed answer. Right. The informed answer is, and this is, you know, I've talked a little about this in the past,

the only people that matter, the only people that matter, are the people who were in the race. That's it. In my opinion, that's all I care about. Now, if 90% of them were yelling and screaming, you know, lynch this guy, then that would suck. but the reality is zero percent of them have said that. So they're all that matter, right? The people who were in the war and in the battles and in the trenches and in the fights

and were head-to-head, that's all that matters. I want to take a quick break from this episode to thank our sponsor, Therisage. Their trilight panel has become my favorite biohacking thing for healing my body. It's a portable red light panel that I simply cannot live without. I literally bring it with me everywhere I go. And I personally use their red light therapy to help reduce inflammations and places in my body where honestly, I have pain. You can use it on a sore back, stomach cramps, shoulder, ankle. Red light therapy is my go-to. Plus,

it also has amazing anti-aging benefits, including reducing signs of fine lines and wrinkles on your face, which I also use it for. I personally use Therisage trilight everywhere and all the time. It's small, it's affordable, it's portable, it's portable, and it's really effective. Head over to Therisage.com right now and use code be bold for 15% off. This code will work sitewide. Again, head over to Therisage, T-H-E-R-A-S-A-G-E.com, and use code be bold for 15% off any of their products. Like, what would be the one thing that you wish people knew that hasn't really, that people don't realize or don't know? If there's like one piece of information,

that's been very misbranded in the media. What would it be? I mean, look, I'm not going to get into the details of it because I've moved on with my life and I feel like I've done a decent job moving on with my life. What I will say is that there were a few things as this legal process played out to sort of reinforce and really to dance on my grave.

there were three or four taglines and PR statements made that just weren't true, right? And so that's, but whatever. I mean, that's what those agencies chose to do, and they're simply not true. And again, if time tells the true story here, and I'll just give an example, right? So if somebody says, that guy right there pointing to me, that's the biggest fraud in the history of sport. I mean, come on. That's easy to say at the time. That feels good for the other side to say, I'm sorry. That is not true. Right. And I know that. My competitors know that. My teammates know that. The people that I race as a 15-year-old professional triathlete know that. The people that

I race as a 53-year-old high-rocks athlete know that. So that's just, they're just jerking themselves off. But hey. No, I think that's, I think, I think it's, because I think also the biggest and best, people love to see that person fall, right? And then rebuild. Like someone like you, because you've had like between that as going to ask. I don't think they considered the rebuild. I mean, I don't. I think, I meant what I said. When you dance on somebody's grave, they're in the grave. That's true. And that's what they did. And that's, that's, but, but, but. that I wasn't going to stay in the grave. Well, also, you know, it's interesting.

I said this to you before. It's like you were probably such a low place, but it didn't ever, it never really, it didn't seem like you ever got, it didn't take you into a bad place. I feel like you kept on succeeding over and over in other areas of life. Yeah, but it's been, look, it's been 12, 13 years.

That's a long time. So I had time. I didn't have time to, to be a professional athlete again, right? Time was up for me. I was 40 years old and was banned in cycling. But I had time to be patient and to reimagine, reassess, reinvent, reemerge in whatever way.

So I had time for that. But there was a long period, and I say long, I mean five-ish years, where I was just patient. And I just watched and waited and did all the things I just, laid out, right? Primarily reimagining and reassessing. But even like you get, you get cancer at 25 years old, right? And like your dog, I read that your doctor gave you like basically 20% chance of living, right? And you're, you, you were that, that little amount you were able to, you know, against all odds, beat that and then go on again to win. Like that to me says something about,

like your brain and your mindset and your will, I guess, overall the will. is what I'm so fascinated by, like, is that something that is just so innate in you? Like, nothing can, like, you're, like, it seems like you're actually, like, you are, like, unstoppable. Is that something that you trained for? Are you just born like that? Like, can people become that if they're not that way? Because you just are who you are, right?

I mean, look, I, I may be. I mean, that's, that all sounds good. But, yeah, but how do you, like, you, and then you went to win again. And you, like, even, I think, I think some people are, are just better equipped. I was equipped to, to not quit, right? And so I didn't quit when I was diagnosed and I fought for my life and I got my life back. And then I fought to win the tours. And then, and then that got, that story got edited.

Well, tell me about how. How did you even get, how did you, were you able to ever train like that again? Never mind, like, people can't, people who are the healthiest as ever. I can't even imagine, like, cycling. like around the block 40 times. No, no, the body comes back. To that level? Like your cancer was all over your body, right?

Yeah, but then the cancer, I mean, you clearly. Clearly, yeah. But I also, I was racing sick probably. I don't know for how long, but long enough to, in my mind, I thought, well, God, I've been sick for, I mean, I did the Olympics in Atlanta two months before I was diagnosed. I know. So part of me, part of me, if you're in, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, I'm just, I was just telling myself this, but I was like, wow, I've been sick for a long time.

Like, just imagine when I get healthy and I get all of this stuff out of my body, wow, like, I'm going to be super badass then. Now, I don't know if that's true or not, but that's what I was telling myself. And so did you do, do a lot of self-talk? Like, I want to know, like, the intricacies. Like, do you have, do you, do you talk to yourself to, like, push you, do you like, what's your, like, what goes on in your brain? Like, is there a narrative?

Is there, like, something you're saying? No, I don't, I'd have to. I don't push myself. It's been a minute since I pushed myself. Like back then, we trained a lot and pushed ourselves a lot. And I don't do that anymore. So it's, but you kind of like, you still are training daily. Yeah, but not, not like that. I'm just, I'm just, I mean, I do, it depends if I ride my bike, that takes longer. But if I train in the gym or go for a run, I mean, it's an hour a day. It's not, you know, it's not. But what I'm saying, like, okay, after you, when you got diagnosed with cancer and then you beat cancer. What was the process to get back to be like a champion again?

Like, what did you do? What was the, what was the mental? I just went straight back to, it didn't even, no, I went straight. I mean, I took a year off. I took the year. I was all of 1997 I didn't race. So then I just, but when I went back, I straight back in. My, my questions, I think that people like are, well, this is what I want to know. is like when I you just overall like if you are succeeding in a lots of different areas like business you've become like a rock star and like with next ventures the cycling like it seems like everything that you do there is like a massive level of success okay so to me that's that is indicative of someone's like mindset and will and determination and ambition and all these things right

my question is really not even a question but is that just something you've always been like that's just who you are and that's just how you like how does somebody is there like is there like actionable things that people can do to become better that way i mean look i grew up in a in a with a mother a single mother more or less a single mother that had me very young and yeah she overcame a lot of odds different than my obstacles and she wasn't an athlete but she just didn't she never quit like she was constantly pushing just trying to defy the odds. right, whether it's, you know, having a kid at 17 years old in Dallas, Texas, right? With, you know, with no, obviously she was in a relationship, but it never met my father.

I said, but this was not an ideal situation, but she didn't care. I mean, she just, she was dead set on having me and, you know, we grew up poor and I say grew up poor. I mean, we didn't grow up. At that time, we were very poor. then she remarried and that relationship wasn't perfect but she's stuck you know she just she's just she's tough she has grit she's overcome a lot i do think that that you either that's just a part of my DNA but i've also absorbed a lot of that just by having watched her as i grew up and we grew up together right keep in mind my mom was 34 years old when i graduated high school wow wow so i think

there's a lot of that. I mean, if I look back to my diagnosis and if I look back to the last decade, I attribute a lot of that to my mother, right, who overcame a lot of long odds, you know, to build a life for herself and to build a life for me. What'd you say? What would be the one thing that people don't know about you? Is there something that you would say? Oh, I think the, I think when people get to know me, I'm a lot goofier than people, like I don't take myself. I take myself seriously, but most of the time I do not take myself very seriously. So it's like a good example, right, is obviously my kids know me, right? They're like, my dad is a goofball. Would they say that about you? Yeah, for sure. But my, but their friends

would be like, oh my God, you're, you know, and then they get around their friend's father, who's me, and they're like, wow, that's not what I expected. Like, this guy's is a goop. I totally know what you mean. Yeah, I'm way more playful. And you don't take yourself seriously.