Habits and Hustle - Episode 543: Dave Watumull: The One Algae Your Supplement Stack Has Always Been Missing

Starting point is 00:00:01 Hi, guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. Hi, everybody. Welcome to Habits and Hustle. We have a very special guest today. We have Dave Wadamall, who is the co-founder and CEO of AX3 Life. Now, you might be wondering what that is. And what that is is, is it's an astazanthan company. So Dave is on a mission to bring astazanth into the world. It's a marine supernutrient that supports your whole body's health and longevity. It has captured his imagination for more than 25 years of research, development, and commercialization. He is the co-founder and CEO of AX3 Life, a consumer health company dedicated to ASTASANTH products, education, and community. Now, just for you, your information,

Starting point is 00:00:49 I just said that. We typically don't even do, I don't usually read a bio, but I wanted to kind of get it out because I needed to practice the word astazanthan. Yeah, yeah. And I find, this is why I wanted to do this podcast is because I was saying to you off camera that is one of these things that are so unknown, but yet probably one of the most effective, most powerful antioxidant there is. And so when there's something that hasn't been totally just kind of just spoken about at nauseam, I really want a deep dive because that to me is when it's really the most interesting, right? It's kind of like we all hear of vitamin C, we all hear of like even like resveratrol, right? but not very many people.

Starting point is 00:01:29 Like even me, I was saying to you, guys, I didn't even know what this was until like maybe two years ago or maybe a year and a half ago, Max Lugavir was here. And he was talking about it to me. And I was like, wow, that's something I, and so I did my own little deep dive and then I started taking it. And now, like I told you, I noticed it much more because I'm aware of it. So with that little extra intro, tell me like what made you, like who you are and why you started a company just on this particular thing and kind of like give us a little bit of your

Starting point is 00:02:02 origin story. Yeah, so I've been working with Azizanthan for virtually my whole life since high school. Initially as a summer job, I went to the big island of Hawaii, went to Kona, and there was a company there that had a group of scientists from the Scripps Institute of Oceanography in San Diego, and they had a cool technology to grow a particular type of microalgae that happens to produce as a sysanthin as a defense mechanism against UV light from the sun. And so when you're growing this algae, it starts off life green in these big ponds. And then when the sunlight hits it in the brutal heat in Kona, where the Iron Man train in the lava fields, they actually internally produce asosanthin and turn bright red, and that is their defense mechanism. And it helps to absorb some of that

Starting point is 00:02:45 light and protect them from oxidative stress and damage. And so this was going back to my high school years working in the production in the ponds and then thereafter pursuing various pharmaceutical and nutraceutical applications of asazanthan just given that at the time there was a very limited research there was less than 200 peer reviewed papers no human clinical studies and now over the last 25 years there's now more than 4,000 peer reviewed papers and like 100 human clinical studies conducted by not just us but you know researchers internationally just because it's such a molecule of interest that throughout the world in the research community, although not really known in the consumer and the instrument community. That was what I find very interesting. Like, why is it that most people have heard of, like,

Starting point is 00:03:29 give us some other examples of other antioxidants. There's like, or where, like, we've all heard of vitamin C, vitamin E, all these other beta carotene. But why has this particular thing, like, I can say it again, as, say it again. Astazanthin, thank you. Why is it so, unknown. Yeah, it just hasn't. Well, first of all, it wasn't easy to make for a long time. It took some technology on the microalgal side to produce the algae to extract it. And then also, if you want to do a laboratory method to make it highly pure and consistent and bioavailable, that also is not something easy to do. So both of those were kind of barriers to entry just as a product to be available to consumers. I was part of the team that brought one of the first

Starting point is 00:04:15 asazanth supplements to the market back in the 99-2000 time frame. Wow. There's been products on the market for now more than 25 years, but they've just been, you know, sold through traditional channels and, you know, supplement, you know, brands and stores. But there hasn't been a major push, you know, in terms of there was no celebrity backing or partnership or major, you know, consumer health company that was marketing it or, you know, major, like, TV campaigns or, you know, social media campaigns. And so it's kind of just gone under the radar.

Starting point is 00:04:44 just hasn't had its time in the spotlight yet, but the science has just been continuing to grow over all these years, and the more you dig, the more interesting it is. And so that's what really our mission now is to spread the word about asosanthan, because we spent the better part of a decade after that initial start looking at pharmaceutical applications of the molecule, thinking that maybe doctors could prescribe this for disease use for patients. And then ultimately came back to the supplement space

Starting point is 00:05:11 with the learnings from the pharmaceutical research, and manufacturing to bring a supplement that has that type of rigor around the manufacturing and kind of the knowledge behind how it works and the potential applications and bringing that to the consumer space. But for several years, we just worked on reaching out to doctors locally in Hawaii, selling in retail stores. But then with the pandemic, we figured we got to have a better way to reach people beyond just person to person, you know, with a doctor or with, you know, at a store. And that's why we formed AX3 in the last few years was really to create, you know, a community and kind of a digital outreach through podcasts and social media to kind of reach more people

Starting point is 00:05:47 and educate them about acesantham. Tell people what oxidative stress is because people use that term. Yeah. And a lot of times people don't even know what it means. So let's talk to me like I'm like seven. Okay. So we breathe the oxygen. We consume nutrients.

Starting point is 00:06:03 And we produce energy in ourselves just to power everything, to move our muscles, to think. And oxygen is a big part of that process. As a byproduct of that energy production, some of the oxygen gets turned into reactive oxygen species, free radicals, that when you have too much of those, it becomes oxidative stress. Your body has endogenous antioxidant systems like glutathione, SOD, superoxide dysmutase, that takes care of some of that free radical or reactive oxygen species, the oxidative stress. But it oftentimes gets overwhelmed and then you get oxidative stress, which is where you have more of these reactive oxygen species

Starting point is 00:06:44 or free radicals than should be around. And then they are bad actors. So you're producing energy in your mitochondria, the little power plants of your cell. As a byproduct of that, think of like an energy production facility. There's pollution coming out of it. That pollution or byproduct can damage things. And it can damage your cells,

Starting point is 00:07:03 which can lead to health issues, aging, et cetera. And so that's oxidative stress. And at the same time, your immune system, And when it's fighting off infections or wound healing, it can actually come in and create its own reactive oxygen species, which can be healthy for trying to kill like a virus or a pathogen. It does that internally, but then it's meant to kind of turn off and go away. The problem is when you have this happening on a constant basis and you have too much of these free radicals attacking portions of your cell and then damaging, whether it's your membranes, your proteins, which carry out all the activity in your cells or your DNA. that can become damaged from oxidative stress. So that's really something that over time

Starting point is 00:07:45 can lead to all these health issues and aging. So we want to try to reduce oxidative stress, which is also tied in with inflammation. There are inflammatory pathways that are triggered by oxidative stress in the cell. So when they sense that there's oxidative stress, there's a change in that redox environment in the cell, it turns on these inflammatory pathways.

Starting point is 00:08:06 And then now you recruit the troops, you recruit the fire department to the cell, And they're trying to fix things, but sometimes there's nothing to be fixed. And now it's actually causing damage because your immune system, rather than fighting off a parasite or an infection, a bacteria, or healing a wound from an injury, now it's just attacking your own tissues, and you don't need that. And so it's really important to reduce oxidative stress and chronic inflammation for overall health and longevity.

Starting point is 00:08:33 You said something, though, you mentioned glutathione, because glutathione, I was under, I thought that was the most powerful antioxidant that there is that your body has. And then like the precursors NAC, correct? So I've been taking that forever for years. I think a lot of people, what they do is they think that they are deficient in something. So then they end up taking it for years on end without checking their blood work regularly. And so they don't even know what they're like how it changes over time, right? Can you tell us what are the main benefits of asazanthan?

Starting point is 00:09:08 And then let's get into more cephaloth after that. So like you said, it's an antioxidant, but it's different. Not all antioxidants are the same. There's how potent they are and what types of reactive oxygen species or free radicals that they're best at targeting. With astisanthin, it's uniquely structured to be able to quench singlet oxygen, which is a particular type of oxygen that kind of has extra energy, say, from UV light, that hits it, and that energy can be damaging to other components in your cells, like your

Starting point is 00:09:38 lipids and your proteins and DNA. With asisantin, it can interface with that and actually absorb the energy, and the molecule can vibrate and dissipate the heat from that energy and then be back to normal and with no damage to the cell. And in that particular mechanism of targeting singlet oxygen, which is a reactive oxygen species, it's like thousands of times stronger than vitamin C and is similar compared to vitamin E and beta carotene. So in studies looking at its antioxidant ability, it was much more potent than all of the common antioxidants. In addition to that, there's other types of free radicals, which are reactive oxygen species that may be missing an electron. And oxygen loves electrons. And in particular, when they're free radicals, it's trying to steal an

Starting point is 00:10:21 electron from the lipids or the proteins or the DNA, the components of your cells that that build your cells and your tissues and the body that you are. And so asosanthin can actually donate an electron to those three radicals to neutralize them effectively. And then asosanthin itself doesn't become reactive because of its molecular structure where it can distribute that loss of the electron and actually it partners well with vitamin C to kind of get an electron back and then get back to normal. And we've done studies with a collaborator at Harvard that has a model that models of membrane inserts things like acesanthin or beta carotene and sees if the membrane is disrupted and or oxidized. And we found that with asazanthin, the membrane was completely undisturbed.

Starting point is 00:11:05 It was just like perfectly situated in there. The membrane was super happy and there was no oxidation of the membrane. Whereas with other things, it disrupted the membrane. And so the membrane wasn't happy. It's kind of like messing up the walls of your house and now you have structural issues. Wow. And so, yeah, other antioxidants like beta carcin, Carotene or vitamin E can even become pro-oxidant at certain levels. If they are fighting off for erotical, sometimes they can become reactive and damage things on their own. But ascentin is like a pure antioxidant that doesn't ever become pro-oxid. It always remains an antioxidant, which is very unique.

Starting point is 00:11:41 So it's much more potent than most anti-inflammatories. It spans the membrane in a very unique way that other antioxidants don't. It gets to all the membranes of the cell, not just the outer membrane, but the mitochondria, nucleus, and it gets naturally distributed throughout your whole body. And so when you take it orally, it gets transported to your liver along with other fats that you're ingesting in that meal. And then it gets packaged into, if you've heard of like LDL and HDL, those lipoproteins, it gets packaged into those and prevents them from being oxidized while using them as a transport, like a bust throughout the body, to go to the heart and to the brain. So that's what they use.

Starting point is 00:12:18 That's what Azizantan uses to travel throughout the body. Then it gets to your heart, gets to your brain, gets your other tissues and organs, and then gets into all the cells and the membranes within those cells. So it's basically distributed out your entire body, gets into all your membranes, and just kind of sits there and fights off free radicals, you know, that are kind of being generated and not being properly managed by your endogenous systems. But it's not chronically inhibiting or activating certain things. Like a lot of agents or drugs go in and just, oh, something's a little bit off. Let me just go in and completely take it out or completely turn something on.

Starting point is 00:12:51 which is not meant to be how your body functions. It may fix that limited issue, but then now you have side effects down the road because that's not how nature intended your cells to function. And sysanthin basically is helping to just maintain or restore that normal function on the cells. Just let's prevent the lipids and the proteins and the DNA, which are all the key components that are basically what make your cells and your tissues, just preventing them from being oxidized and damaged by inflammation

Starting point is 00:13:15 so they can just do their normal job and function normally. That's really what it does is just allow for, for homeostasis and normal cellular function. But in terms of, say, NR, that was tested in this longevity study that we were also a part of with the NIH called the Interventions Testing Program, which is probably the most rigorous mammalian assessment of lifespan in the world. What do you call the test? It's called.

Starting point is 00:13:39 What's it called? So it's the interventions testing program, the ITP, and it's conducted at the National Institute on Aging, the NIA, which is part of the National Institutes of Health, the NIH. And so that's the U.S. government institutes of science and medicine, and it funds a lot of biomedical research and conducts research as well. And so this program has been running for the last 20 years. It's conducted at three different institutions. So it's very robust because you're not just doing a study in one place.

Starting point is 00:14:08 You're doing it at the University of Michigan, University of Texas, and a research group in Maine. And you have the same setup at each site. So you're running basically three studies, but in parallel. and hoping to get the same type of result at all three. And they perfected this model over decades. And they have, ideally you would test in humans, but it would take decades to actually look at lifespan. Right.

Starting point is 00:14:31 And so mice are the best that we can get in terms of something that takes a few years to get an indication of, okay, this might be a viable longevity lifespan enhancing agent. And that's really the program that put rapamycin on the map as, oh, this actually, this old repurposed drug that used to be used for organ transplants, now actually can extend your lifespan. It may give you kind of tolerability issues

Starting point is 00:14:56 or side effect issues that are not optimal from a day-to-day dosage standpoint, but it looks like it would extend your lifespan numerically, although who knows about quality of life at that point. But that is nevertheless, that is the program that really identified that Rapamycin was a legitimate lifespan-en enhancing agent. And other things like NR have also been tested in that model

Starting point is 00:15:18 and did not extend lifespan. And not to say the NR doesn't have utility or NAD doesn't have benefit for health and for aging, but in terms of direct lifespan enhancement in this model, which was meant to replicate aging to the best extent possible in these mice, a lot of things green tea resveratrol was tested, did not extend lifespan. So in a 20-year history,

Starting point is 00:15:38 only 10 things have extended lifespan at all with statistical significance, and only five have actually ascended lifespan more than 10%. And those five that have worked are things like rapamycin or other drugs. And we were invited to supply material to the program back in 2019, based on preliminary research, where azosanthin was demonstrated to extend lifespan in other model organisms like worms and fruit flies and yeast, which are basic research models to look at things like aging or disease. So we extended lifespan in those models.

Starting point is 00:16:11 We also showed that at the cellular level, the pathways that rapamycin axon like mTOR or, the certuans that resveratrol axon or AMPK that metformin acts on all of these critical pathways astisanthan also has an impact on them so mechanistically it makes sense that ascentan as a ascentin would support aging and longevity and so we supplied this material to the NIH program and after several years of following the mice it turns out that asosanthin did extend the lifespan by 12 percent. And so that's up there in the range of some of their top performers, but with the key difference that it actually has exceptional safety and tolerability. Like in the case of resveratrol, there was research, you know, at this point, probably 20 plus years ago that, you know, came out

Starting point is 00:16:58 of like David Sinclair's laboratory and people were really excited about it. They formed, you know, the company's search risks to create pharmaceutical versions of resveratrol. It was purchased by GSK for hundreds of millions of dollars. $600 million. Yeah. And then after a few years of research, it was shelved because it didn't seem to really, you know, have the science to hold up. It was like there was no proof of anything. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:19 I think the mechanism with the Sertuans, I mean, there is something there, but maybe resveratrol wasn't exactly, you know, the optimal candidate for that. And so. Well, so what happens is you think of us, like, what happens at that $600 million purchase? Do they have to give the money back or? Oh, no, no. I know. I'm joking. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:17:37 It doesn't work that way. It's like, oh, sorry. But I mean, that's how drug development works. I mean, companies will spend hundreds of millions or billions trying to develop things and not everything works. So NR never extended lifespan. NMN never extended. NMN wasn't tested in that model. It wasn't tested.

Starting point is 00:17:52 Yeah. So we don't know about that. But NR at least didn't. Resveratrol didn't. Green tea didn't. Omega-3s didn't. Yeah. Green tea didn't either.

Starting point is 00:18:01 No. Like for polyphenols and all that. Yeah. But again, all those may have other good health benefits, but maybe just wouldn't numerically extend your lifespan in a typical population based on this study. All right, I want to tell you but one of the most powerful science-backed supplements have come across.

Starting point is 00:18:22 It's called astazanthan. It's a marine antioxidant supported by over 4,000 scientific papers and 100 human studies. Astazanthin works at the cellular level, protecting your DNA, reducing inflammation, and supporting your brain, heart, muscle, skin, and energy.

Starting point is 00:18:41 It's one of the very few supplements showed to impact multiple hallmarks of aging and improving your endurance, recovery, and your overall longevity. And that's why I've partnered with AX3 Life. Their biopure asazampton has been clinically proven to be absorbed three times better than standard astisampton and was actually validated in the NIH's gold standard longevity program. I've also had their CEO on my podcast, and the science is pretty compelling. Go to AX3. Life and use Use promo code hustle to get 20% off your first order. That's AX3.

Starting point is 00:19:19 Dot Life and use promo code hustle for 20% off your first order. So I'm curious if this is something that it's such a powerful antioxidant, like a thousand times more powerful than vitamin C. And what I initially heard, what it's really great for your skin, nails, hair, there's a big beauty element to this, right? Why are there not any serums just like an as a, how do you say it again? Astazanthin. Astazanthin serums and creams.

Starting point is 00:20:01 I mean, this is a massive market in the beauty world. Like, it's a trillion dollar market. There's a bazillion vitamin C serum. There's a billion serums, you know, pushing Resveratrol, you know, because of all the, because of the ability to fight free radicals. Meanwhile, you know, there's been. And it's come back that there's no real data that Steven supports that Resveratrol is even effective. And yet it's a multi-billion dollar.

Starting point is 00:20:26 It was a multi-billion dollar company brand. So why are more people not creating beauty products with this? There are a few, in particular in the Asian market. Is that a Korean? Like the Korean skin care? Japanese, Korean. Yeah, yeah. So there are products that utilize asazanthan.

Starting point is 00:20:44 You'll find some cosmetics. And so I think it will become more common just as, more cosmetic brands are aware of the science and want to include it because there are studies showing that both oral and topical administration of asazanthan do reduce spine lines and wrinkles and increase moisture content and elasticity, prevent some of the DNA damage to skin cells that happens from UV light also promotes eye health, both based on strain from looking at digital screens, but also based on the light that comes in, you know, from the sun. And so it really is important. And I think that the one challenge, though, is that it's such a bright red pigment. And so you can

Starting point is 00:21:22 imagine if you mix it into lotion, which we've done kind of on our own kind of crude formulations of topical, you know, lotions and creams, it's bright red. And, you know, and so you, if you have a high dose in it, it's like putting on war paint, like a red. Right, right, right, rouge. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So you may have to have, you know, a low level to not have it be something that, like, colors the skin with, you know, with the application of the topical cream or lotion, but still is enough to be effective. Fortunately, though, Acesantham, without needing to apply it topically, it naturally gets distributed throughout your whole body and even gets to your skin cells. So it can be that internal, you know, protector of the skin just by taking it orally.

Starting point is 00:22:03 I think it's a beauty. I think it's like the best kept secret that nobody talks about is that if you take this as a as a capsule, it will be a great thing for your skin, your nails, your hair, everything grows faster, looks better, and like nobody's doing it, nobody's talking about it. And like it's like the cheapest, the cheapest beauty half you can do. Yeah, a lot of those cosmetic products are quite expensive. Very expensive. And like, well, that's a big deal because I think that the truth of the matter is everything now is about longevity. That's like the new buzzword of the day, right? Everyone, longevity, longevity, longevity.

Starting point is 00:22:38 And so the assumption is to live longer. So everyone's doing all these things, taking these injections, these peptides, all the things, because they're expecting to live longer and live better. Yeah, because you want to not just live longer, but have health. And have health as well. Yeah. So if like a lot, like if most of this stuff, actually almost all of it is a bunch of nonsense, you know, it's like that's the bottom line.

Starting point is 00:23:04 It is mostly nonsense. because I know it's nonsense, because this is the thing, right? Like, there's always certain things, like, there's always so much you can do to really move the needle. You can only, like, you know, you can exercise, you can eat well, you can not smoke, drink glass, all the things, right? But then there's other things that move the needle, like, a little, little, little bit. And those things, I, like, from all my readings, all the experts, I talk to the top people in the world. And, like, they say to me, like, off, you know, offline, like, nah, that most, like, most of this stuff is not going to really, like, help you. The sauna can be a great thing.

Starting point is 00:23:36 Cold plunge, some people are saying yes, some people are saying no. There's only a few things that everyone's in agreement with, right? So that's why this was very interesting to me because it's usually the ones that are the most unknown, undetected,

Starting point is 00:23:52 less popular that actually, like actually work. Like, no way, the exercise is very unpopular, but it works better than anything else. You know what I mean? Like, unfortunately, that's the way it works. Like this thing here, it's a very, it's actually a very moderately, it's a very inexpensive supplement acid-zantin. Like how much was a bottle of this stuff? So ours is 50. You can find cheaper ones on

Starting point is 00:24:16 Amazon for 25, but they are, ours is absorbed three times better. So you're paying, yeah, you're paying half, but you're taking three times as much, you know, in that case. Well, that's good to know, because you know why when I went on Amazon, before I even met you and knew about your products and all this stuff and how, how rigorous you are with your testing and all the things. That's very important. You know, you've got to be so careful with Amazon because I went on Amazon two years ago after Max told me all about all this stuff. And I'm like, hmm, I mean, I'm going to find acid anthin. And this thing had like, this brand had like 20,000 reviews. And I'm like, oh, it must be good. Right. So I bought it. Meanwhile, it's garbage. And I didn't know, you know,

Starting point is 00:24:57 because you've got to be careful. What are people supposed to look for? How do they know what works, what doesn't work, like what's the most potent version of asazanthin, how much they should take, and in terms of like just like quality, basically. Yeah. So if you go to Amazon, and it's not to say that those other brands or products are garbage. You know, there might be some. And they probably use like such a little amount. There's like 1% asazanthin and the rest filler.

Starting point is 00:25:27 Yeah, so there are those products. Yeah. And you want to make sure you get, if you are getting one from Amazon, one from a reputable company that is either a direct manufacturer or from us. Yeah, tell us why yours is like how, why yours is actually special. So we, having started in growing the microalgae, we noticed that that is prone to batch to batch variability, prone to contamination, because you basically are growing algae in these big ponds. And you have the volcano nearby. You have the airport nearby. So airplane jet fuel vapor. You're doing it in Hawaii?

Starting point is 00:26:01 We used to. So 25 plus years ago, we were growing the microalgae in the open ponds in Kona. But you are exposed to the elements. And so, yes, you have the Hawaiian sunlight and air, but you also have Vogue from the volcano and the airport next nearby and birds and rodents. And so it's outdoors. It's not as controlled. There are some groups like a group in Iceland and a group in Washington State that do it

Starting point is 00:26:23 entirely enclosed indoor tubes. So it's not prone to the contamination risks, but it's still an extract of the algae, which is only 5 or 10 or maybe even 15 or 20%, if you're really doing a high concentrated form. But most products in the market may be like, say, 5 or 10% acesanth. And the rest is other stuff from the algae,

Starting point is 00:26:44 which is related molecules or algal lipids or proteins that are not going to harm you, but they're just not the active component that you want. And in our case, with a decade of pharmaceutical research, we decided to kind of produce it like a pharmaceutical in terms of in the laboratory, like highly pure, none of the other stuff, but just the active molecule that you find in nature with none of the other stuff. So it's a hundred percent pure? It's a hundred percent pure, but then we have to formulate it to make it absorbed because if we just take it off the end of the line, not formulated, you won't absorb it, unfortunately. And so we have to formulate it to make it so well absorbed. But when we took our 12 milligram capsule or two of those, 24 milligrams total, versus potentially

Starting point is 00:27:25 like the product you bought, which was like, yeah, very highly reviewed on Amazon, long-term, you know, brand on the market, same 12 milligram, two capsules of theirs. We got a group of human volunteers, healthy individuals, gave them the dose of the two 12-millimeter capsules of the alcohol form of the product, took their blood at multiple time points over 24 hours, sent the blood to the lab where we have methods to measure how much asazanthin is in the blood. Then we sent them home for a week to let the asosanthin wash out of their system. And at that point, bring them back. You don't measure any acesanthin in their system anymore, so it's out of them completely.

Starting point is 00:28:01 Then give them the same dose of ours, two 12 milligram capsules, take their blood, measure it. And we got three times the amount of asosanth at the highest concentration, but also the total exposure over 24 hours. if you add up all the concentrations at each time point, we had three times as much absorbed. So in the other case, you were passing some of it through into the toilet. You weren't actually absorbing it into your body. And so we have a much more effective formulation.

Starting point is 00:28:26 And this was in the same group of people. So it's not just like, oh, it could have been a different group of people that absorbed it differently. It's literally the same people, one week apart, just and same dosage. And also, the variability between each person was less in ours. And so you had a more consistent absorption. Oh. So in addition to three times as much. And our product is much more pure and consistent because we do it in the laboratory.

Starting point is 00:28:50 And so it's highly controlled and like pharmaceutical style manufacturing. So it's basically a pharmaceutical grade product. That would be, yeah, how you would describe. It's still a natural, it's called like natural product total synthesis. So you're basically taking a natural product, making in the laboratory, but the exact molecular structure that you would find in nature. So, okay. So then because because the color. of salmon, okay, sorry, salmon is pink because of acesanthin. So what happens if we just, can't we just

Starting point is 00:29:18 eat more salmon? You could, but you'd have to eat about a pound of sockeye salmon to get 12 milligrams or like four pounds of Atlantic salmon to get the same. So I mean, you can, that's a lot, right? And that's for, what, a day? Yeah, for one capsule. And a lot of people take, you know, two capsules a day or four or even eight or more. And so in that case, it would be just, Just not possible. Like I'd be eating like 27 salmons. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:29:44 Yeah. Yeah. So it's just, it's not really possible to eat that much salmon reliably. I mean, I think adding more salmon

Starting point is 00:29:50 to your diet is great because you have omega-3s, you have asazanthin, you know, but it's just hard to get that much. Yeah, you're right. That'd be hard to eat that more salmon.

Starting point is 00:29:58 Yeah. So for best use, I've been taking one capsule. Mm-hmm. Should I be taking more, two, three? Yeah. The most studies show

Starting point is 00:30:07 increasing, like, dose-dependent effects and say in that human study we did for vascular health, we found better results at eight capsules a day, even versus two. If you want just basic health and longevity support, one or two should be fine. But given that it's exceptionally safe, we and others have done safety studies showing that at high doses, long durations, there aren't side effects of anything of clinical significance. And so you have room to kind of find a dose that

Starting point is 00:30:32 works best for you. And so you may want to measure biomarkers, like measures of oxidative stress or inflammation in your blood tests. And if something is elevated, maybe you can see if that could come down and you could adjust your dose based on that. Or you could do based on how you feel, like your joints or your muscles or your cognition, like, you know, brain fog. You can kind of subjectively see how you're feeling and then adjust your dose accordingly. And have you been taking this for like how long have you been taking it, 25 years? Like do you cycle on and off? Do you No, I've been taking it for most of my adult life? Yeah. Say my father also. has been taking it for decades, and he is a power user because so he's in his mid to late

Starting point is 00:31:13 70s, and he plays hardcore singles tennis in the Hawaiian Sun multiple times a week. And so he and his buddies that are in that age range. They all take, they take 12 or 16 capsules a day, and they found, you know, that really benefits their mobility. So they are kind of on the, the frontiers of the high dosing and have found benefits there. So that's not our recommended dose, but just to know that people have experimented with higher doses and found utility. But I think for a general health and longevity, one or two a day is probably sufficient. What does Azazanthan not do? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:31:50 Okay. Well, it won't make you live forever. I mean, that's one thing. A lot of people are trying to do hacks that make you live to 150 or 200. I think this is something that allows your body to just hopefully function optimally and normally and live kind of a natural, you know, but hopefully as long of a number. natural life as you can with as much health as you can. But it's not some thing that's going to change biology.

Starting point is 00:32:12 Yeah, to somehow reverse aging, you know, or something like that. I mean, I know, a lot of people are working on those things, but I think the problem is, you know, a lot of people just, you know, assume that aging is happening and it's just the way it is. But I think there's a lot of things you can do. And the other thing is, of course, it's not to replace the basics, which are not, you know, sexy, but like a good night of sleep, you know, a good diet, exercise, mindfulness, social connections, you know, all these things really play a vital role in your health.

Starting point is 00:32:41 And a lot of people would rather hack the way around them with other things rather than just fixing their lifestyle. And so if you can do that plus supplement intelligently with science-backed products like Asazanthem, that probably is going to give you the best chance to live a longer, healthier life. I think you just said it perfectly there. I think that that's 100% true. People are looking for a quick fix and looking for something that's sexy and, like, trendy. And the things that work the best through time are the things that have no sex appealed, boring as hell, but they work, right? Like exercising, sleeping, you know, probably like all the things I said earlier, supplementing properly, right? That's a big one. Yeah, it doesn't sound so hot,

Starting point is 00:33:24 but actually if you want to be hot, those are the things you kind of have to do. Exactly. You know, unfortunately, that's the truth. David, thank you for being on habits and hustle. Thank you for coming and talking to me. It was my pleasure. Thank you. No, this was a pleasure. Where do people find more information on you or more on your product, which is, if you guys are going to go and try Azazanthan, make sure you're trying David's product because it really, it's definitely a quality product. Oh, thank you. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:53 So, AX3. Life is our website and it's also our handle on Instagram. I'm also on Instagram at Dave Watermel. So any of those sources are a good place to learn more. Amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you.

Habits and Hustle - Episode 543: Dave Watumull: The One Algae Your Supplement Stack Has Always Been Missing

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