Habits and Hustle - Episode 573: Dr. Jonathan Schoeff: Peptides and the Marketing Behind Modern Longevity - Part 1

Episode Date: July 21, 2026

Are you actually making healthier choices, or are you just buying whatever wellness trend sounds the most convincing? The wellness world has gotten very good at selling certainty. Peptides, longevity stacks, skin hacks, GLP-1s, miracle supplements, and "expert" advice are everywhere. The problem is that confidence online does not always mean credibility. A lot of people are spending serious money on things that sound scientific, but are backed by weak evidence, half-truths, or marketing dressed up as medicine. This matters because your health decisions should not be based on who has the best abs, the biggest platform, or the loudest opinion. Real performance comes from understanding what actually moves the needle: muscle, metabolic health, insulin sensitivity, smart recovery, and knowing how to question what you are being sold. The basics may not be sexy, but they work. And in a world full of shortcuts, doing the boring proven things is often the boldest move. Dr. Jonathan Schoeff is a surgeon, longevity expert and co-founder of The Longevity Lab who brings more than two decades of medical experience to the conversation around health, performance, and aging. He works with clients through a science-forward, evidence-based lens, helping them cut through wellness noise and focus on what actually supports long-term health, from metabolic function and muscle to peptides, GLP-1s, and skin longevity. What's Discussed:  (01:27) Why real medical credibility matters in a world full of online health experts. (04:00) How social media pushed Dr. Jonathan Schoeff into the longevity conversation. (08:13) Why insurance companies have so much control over patient care. (20:09) How influencers can turn weak science into massive wellness trends. (22:09) What mechanistic data really means and why it does not equal human evidence. (28:30) How GLP-1s work beyond the weight loss conversation. (34:31) Why peptide claims can become dangerous when evidence is overstated. (52:13) Why the Wolverine Stack is one of the biggest red flags in peptide marketing. (01:01:47) How muscle drives metabolic health, insulin sensitivity, and long-term longevity.   Thank You to Our Sponsors! Magic Mind: Head over to magicmind.com/jen and use code JEN at checkout. Pique: Go to piquelife.com/jenniferrsd to get 20% off for life plus free gifts Momentous: Ready to try supplements that actually do what they claim? Head to livemomentous.com and use code JEN for 35% off your first subscription.  Therasage: Visit therasage.com and use code JEN to get 15% off your order. Your skin Prolon: Prolon is offering listeners 30% off sitewide plus a $40 bonus gift when you subscribe to their 5-Day Program! Just visit prolonlife.com/JENNIFERCOHEN and use code JENNIFERCOHEN to claim your discount and your bonus gift. Find more from Jen Cohen:  Website: jennifercohen.com Instagram: @therealjencohen Books: jennifercohen.com/books Speaking: jennifercohen.com/speaking-engagements   Find more from Dr. Jonathan Schoeff Website: longevitylabwellness.com Instagram: @jonschoeff Facebook: Dr. Jon Schoeff YouTube: @drjonschoeff  

Hi, guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits and Hustle. Crush it. Welcome to Habits and Hustle, where I sit down with the world's biggest thinkers, entrepreneurs, top experts to uncover the habits and strategies that actually move the needle in your health and happiness and, of course, success. Today, I'm sitting down with Dr. Jonathan Schiff. He's a surgeon and longevity expert who is actually still practicing medicine, which already makes him different from a lot of the experts you see online. He's not here to sell you. you some magic stack, potion, or scare you into a protocol, or even pretend that every trend on Instagram is backed by real science. He has spent more than two decades in medicine, working as a surgeon and helping people understand what actually drives long-term health. And in this episode,

we get into the wild world of online health experts, the peptide hype, GL-1s, muscles, skin care myths, and why so much of what gets packaged as longevity is really just great marketing with a lab coat filter. This conversation will make you question who you are taking advice from, what evidence actually means, and why the boring basics like building muscle, improving metabolic health and staying consistent are still the things that move the needle. So guys, buckle up. This is going to be a great episode if you're into anything, health, wellness, fitness, and of course, just overall, just great conversation. Enjoy. All right, you guys. Welcome to another episode of Habits and Hustle, and we have a very special guest today.

I should also say that I know I've said this 10 times before we even started to roll, but this is Saturday. So this guy has to be really great for me to actually be doing a podcast on Saturday. His name is Dr. Jonathan Schiff, and he is a surgeon and a longevity expert, but a real expert, not just one who plays one on social media, which we're going to get into in a second. and he could not do the podcast during the week because he's actually a working doctor. Yeah, darn jobs. Get in the way. Yes. Get in the way of all the fun.

Exactly. Like, because I say all the time, you know, when I do this podcast and I have doctors who come on, and I'm like, oh, are you practicing still? And majority of them are like, no, I don't practice anymore. So I'm like, so basically they've all just like kind of shifted or morphed into like media doctors, which I never really, like, it's like, don't you, have you not seen that at all? Oh, no, I have. And I think it's, uh, being new to social media, I was completely naive to that. Right. So there are all these narratives that exist around the pseudodoxers, the doc fluencers, all these

things that, for the best, I had no concept of. But when I first got on social media, you know, you get blasted with these, you are this type statements. Yeah, yeah. And I'm like, no, I'm actually not. I just, I'm just a guy from Ohio, you know, and people will, I mean, that's the interesting thing about social media is they want to just box you in as quick as possible. You're one of those guys. You're a keto guy. You're a carnivore guy. You're a, you know, you're a fasting guy. You're a muscle guy. You're a protein. And in reality, I look at that and I go, no, I'm just a doctor. Right. And then talked about that. Now, unfortunately, the word doctor, I think is totally abused. And it's done in a, I mean, let's face it, it's done in a manipulative way. Well, 100%. Like I said to you earlier,

you know, these doctors, a lot of them are chiropractors and then they're giving a lot of advice on a lot of things that maybe they weren't trained for. So I'm a big, like, to me, you know, that's what I kind of am, I try to be a little discerting. So, because I think there is so much noise on Instagram, which is why, like, when I saw you and, like, I follow you and I reached out to you is because I saw that you were legitimately a real doctor, you know, who actually practices and has patience and does a thing. And, like, you just, by the way, you have a big following for someone who's barely even on social media.

But that was just recently, I would imagine. Yeah, we started this whole, I called it the great social media project. So back in May of last year, I had no longer. or anything. And the reality for me, what I do in the longevity space is I, you know, have clients come in every day and they would ask these questions. And a lot of them were just totally off the wall. Some were legitimate. But they say, I follow so-and-so and this is what so-and-so said. What should I do about that? And after a while I go, you know, it probably behooves me to get into this whole social media thing. So it started with really wanting to connect.

with my clients in the local areas. Is it patients? Why are you saying clients? Oh, that's a great question. So I look at what I do in the longevity space is very different than what I do as a surgeon. As a surgeon, it's doctor patient. Someone is ill or someone has a disease process that I'm going to fix. It just happens to be with my hands.

The reason I call my clients, my patients, I guess, in my longevity practice clients, is because I play a very different role. I look at myself as a consultant, as a health care strategist, not in the traditional doctor-patient sense. Because one, I think the world we're living in now is so disenfranchised with the traditional medical model. You put any names you want on it. But at the end of the day, there is this public perception about doctors. And apparently doctors are paid by big pharma. Doctors want to get rich.

I missed that course when I was in training. training when I was doing 120 hours a week doing surgery. But again, it goes back to what I said in social media. Everybody wants to kind of lump you into a category. Right. And that's because that's what social media drives. That's what it favors. The algorithm, it's binary.

It's controversy. It's black and white, right? The clickbait. I didn't know what that meant. Right. Okay. So for me, what I do in the longevity space is very different. I'm taking a physician education, the framework that I have built through 22 years of practice,

and using it to redirect the course or redefine the trajectory of another human being. To me, that's very different than what's perceived as conventional doctor patient. I catch you. So to me, if you went and hired a, you know, whatever, an interior design consultant, right, you would be their client. Yep. So it is fundamentally, and I'm all about reframing, because if you get the framework wrong, the entire relationship, the entire experience is going to go sideways, in my opinion. And so as soon as, you know, as soon as people, I think, get sucked into that, they have preconceived notions. And I think the medical establishment has not helped itself. I mean, you know, the days, I say this,

the days of the doctor always being right, doctor telling you what to do. I think the American public and really the world is disenfranchised with that model. People want to be heard. People want to be seen. And then unfortunately, at least in the U.S., a physician can't keep the lights on. This is real, okay? We can play all the games. But like a primary care physician, if they're not seeing X number of people a date, they literally can't pay the bills.

No one's getting rich. Right. Okay. And no one that I know personally who became a physician spent decades of their life while ever going out, was having a good time was doing it to manipulate people or to control people or all these kind of suggestions that the doctors don't care and stuff. Why else would you waste two decades of your life becoming an expert in human health and wellness? The problem is this is not excusing it, but the system itself is rigged. It is. I mean, who can, controls healthcare today. It's commercial insurance. I mean, true story. Okay, I do surgery

anywhere from three to five days a week. And it is not uncommon at all for us to have to call, it's called a peer review process, to ask another person on a phone who works for the insurance company. They're employed by the insurance. If it's okay for us to do what in our professional judgment is best for the patient. That's the world we're living in. So the idea, and I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole, but the idea that the physicians have it out for the patient, I mean, that's insane to me. Right. Because I'm losing hours of sleep with a genuine intent to try to help my fellow man.

Okay, so wait, so you said something that was interesting. You said that you have to call the insurance company to see if they'll cover, basically, whatever the necessary thing. Oh, it's even better, by the way. I'll give you the whole scoop if you want. Yeah, I want. So basically, my question, yeah, I want you to because, so if they say, no, it's not covered, do you as a doctor not do it because they, because you're not getting paid?

Well, it's not about me. Not you, but they're, well, yeah, no, no, no. Because if you do the procedure, it's not covered. I'm not getting paid, but bear in mind who else isn't getting paid, the way bigger fish than me. You see, there's a breakdown of how. Yeah. Let's do this real quick. Hopefully we have time.

But there's a breakdown of about how compensation happens. And I'll speak from a surgeon's perspective. Okay, yeah, go ahead. Primary care or in office is different. But we deal in what are called procedural codes. Okay, every surgery we do is defined by some numbers on a piece of paper. So the insurance companies are the ones that have to approve, or if you've ever had surgery, they'll call it a prior authorization.

Okay? Yes. The beauty of a prior authorization, the fine print is literally, this is what the fine print says, Prior authorization is not a guarantee of payment. Think about that. Think if your profession operated in that capacity. So I can do a surgery. This is true.

It's been pre-approved by the insurance. They said, yeah, we'll pay for it. But actually, we're not going to pay for it. So they'll come back and say, well, there wasn't a psych eval done, and so therefore we're not paying you. But bear in mind, this is a much bigger picture, because everybody looks at the physician and goes, oh my gosh, it's all their fees and all this stuff.

We're about 1% of health care cost, okay? You still have a hospital. You still have multiple other physicians, care providers, than the actual equipment, than the actual in surgery, you know, the actual devices or implants that we're using. All that are line, all of those are line items, okay? Yeah. And so if an insurance company comes back and says,

no, we actually, we authorized it. We said in writing, good to go. But we changed her mind. Like, how cool would that be if that was your business? Well, it's not, I mean, for the person that's sarcasm. Obviously, that's sarcasm. Of course. But I'm saying like, so what do people do in that situation?

Yeah, so there's a number of things. Well, the health care system is so crazy right now. Nobody understands it. You can have nine people. But they think they do. That's the problem. But yeah, but no, but it's, and it's always, it's so complicated. So nothing is ever really covered.

I'm paying all this money for, for my co-pocket. pays and for my month lease to get the PPO's and all these other things. And then I'm always, but I'm still paying. Yep. Yeah. And guess who's flying on the private jet? Tell me. The insurance company CEO.

I don't see too many of my doctor colleagues flying on private jets. Are you kidding? No. Look at the administrative, the administrative cost burden, the acceleration of the administrative pool relative to physicians over time, right? The population's increasing. We can agree on that, I hope, right? And yet the physician, the absolute physician numbers in the United States is a much slower

uptrent. But where the explosion occurred earlier in the 2000s was in the administrative roles. So administration doesn't just mean a hospital CEO, okay? Imagine this. As a physician, if I own my own practice, in order to give quality patient care in a timely manner, I now have to employ some number of people that are the pre-off experts, the actual people going back and forth with the insurance. Oh, yeah, the insurance says, we're going to approve it. And then after you do all the work,

they come back and say, actually, we're not going to pay you. So now those people now have to submit appeals. And you go round and round. The process, so again, the administrative burden, if people want to know where their dollars are going, they are going to the administrative burden of health care that has become so outrageous. The problem was two, three decades ago, as physicians, we, I think we failed. Obviously, this is long before my time, but I think some physicians were reckless. There weren't the guardrails to ensure that, hey, I'm being compensated fairly for my time. And there was a time probably 40, 50 years ago where you kind of charge what you want and you get paid. So it created an opening.

in healthcare cost, where costs were thought to be excessive and being driven by physician choices. Oh, look at that. All these administrators come in to help control the cost. But what we forgot was the administrators themselves are a cost. Yeah, exactly. So they have not come close to managing cost containment to even justify their own salaries. But the people making millions are the insurance CEOs, they're the hospital CEOs. Those are the people that are profiting, off of the efforts. And in reality, the care providers, that's physicians, it's nurse practitioners, that's nurses, that's techs, everybody, collectively, we don't account for even upwards of about 10% of the total health care costs. So where else is it going? And so the person that suffers,

so going back to your original question, what happens? You need a surgery, okay? Your legs on fire. You come in, you see, you get seen. This is a surgery you need. Now, in most cases, that's going to be fine. But say for whatever reason, it gets denied. The insurance company says, nope, you as a patient have a couple options. First, you appeal that denial. You. So you go to bat for yourself. So now you're fighting the same entity that you're paying probably thousands of dollars in premiums to, right?

Yeah. You're begging and pleading saying, I'm living this. I'm in pain. Like, I can't do this. So patients are one major piece of the, the appeal process, just to get surgery done on them to help them. Okay? The alternative that does exist, and now as we've seen these high deductible plans and

stuff, the alternative is the patient pays out of pocket. So that's really, and to be honest with you, that's what happens in Canada. It's just those people come to America to get their surgery. Yeah, I'm Canadian. Yes, so you probably know how. Yeah, well, you got to wait months and months and months to get anything. Over two years for a knee replacement. Over two years.

Right now, yeah. In Canada. And the Canadians are probably going to flip their lead. No, no, no. I mean, it's... No, no, no. I mean, it's... Because it's not, it's not necessary.

I mean, you can hobble around. You can even find a doctor, never mind. This is one of the other problems. Even forget about Canada. I mean, it's actually in the U.S. No one can find a regular doctor. Nobody can... Right.

I'm in a certain class. you know, socioeconomic place in L.A. and all these things, ask me how many of my friends have a doctor. They have concierge. You can only find a concierge doctor. Right. So unless you pay a high premium to see somebody, you're not seeing anybody. Potentially, yeah.

Not potentially. It is literally what's happening. Yeah. So even to get the bare minimum, you have to be paying a premium. Well, consider, look at it this way, though, because the same criticism could be Are you a concierge doctor? Okay, but I don't understand you. And I'll tell you why.

Okay, so you're a surgeon. So you go into surgery every day, Monday through Friday, blah, blah, blah. But then you also have a longevity practice. Like, so, I don't even, like, so are you a concierge doctor? Like, why both? So, you have to.

And also, by the way, before you do that, I need to concentrate because this is like, you're very, but a lot of information. We're doing these shots, okay? This is a performance shot. It has a lot of amazing, otropics like lions made. Well, this one is the original. But you also, I gave you a caffeine free option. Okay, we're going caffeine. You want caffeine? Okay. So we shake these up. This is basically a performance

shot that will help you will help me focus because God knows I'm going to need it with you. If the host falls asleep, the viewers are really in for a treat. I'll just keep talking. Yeah. Okay, wait, we do this. We, we do a cheer. So, okay. Here we are. Boom. I've had so many of these are ready today. I love them. It's good, right? Yeah, it's good. I was waiting for you to drink it. It's very chivalrous of you. Oh, no, it was not that chivalrous. It was if you kind of like...

Oh, I've had a million. Believe me, I've had a million of these. No, but you know how, like, this is... Oh, you're watching to see how I'm actually, yeah. The fun fact about the wellness industry is the more absurd it is and the more disgusting it is, the priceier it is, right? Like, AG1, AGO1, zero health benefit, zero, nothing. And it's disgusting. Disgusting.

And people are, like, so proud. They're like, oh, yeah, just throw it back. One of my clients was in yesterday, and he was telling me about this green concoction that a chef makes for him and stuff. I was like, how, you know, he's like, it's just terrible. I'm like, why are you drinking it? Yeah. Well, you know, I think it's really good.

It has probiotics. It has, like, take some fiber. Yeah. that works just as well. People don't like the, people want magic, magic formulas and magic potions. The fact that AG1 has become like a billion dollar brand.

And it's because they have great marketing. They went to the right influencers, their right podcasts, the right this, the right that, paid great performance marketing. And now they're like crushing it. And everybody's under the impression that they're like doing something great

for their body. Because it tastes disgusting. Because it tastes disgusting. It tastes disgusting, and it's pricey. So it must be really good. And Joe Rogan does it, so it must be good. Gosh. Right?

That's literally where our brains are psychologically. And also, like, if you don't know what you don't know, and it looks, it's green, so psychologically you think it's healthy for you. It's gritty. It must come from a plant. Exactly. It must come from a plant. So everyone's just like, you know, drinking the Kool-Aid or drinking the AG1.

Drinking the AG1. It's funny. you say that if I could take a brief detour. Yes. Because I've not been on social media long. Like I had in my mind what an influencer was. But now when I see it play out, especially in medical circles or medical applications, influencer is very much an influencer.

I say that and you're like, yeah, I know. That's why they're called him. No, no. You're talking about changing the mindset, like a, Joe Rogan of millions of people. Joe Rogan, when he's talked about methylene blue, which is an absolutely outrageous phenomenon by itself, the number of phone calls I got in my practice, do you have methylene blue? Do you carry, will you get me methylene blue? This was before I was involved in social media. So I didn't even understand the connection. So I used methylene blue

in my surgical training to like localized lymph nodes. Okay. So that's how I knew. of methylene blue. It's it's something that we inject into an IV and it consolidates into a limb. Like, why would you want methylene blue? I mean, there's, it's a surgical dye, right? All that, the whole methylene blue story is trumped up. Someone will get pissed for me saying that. Well, no, I want it. I need to know this. Yeah. Okay, so this is, oh my God, I love that you're here. Okay, so methylene blue, it's the hottest thing in like, in biohacking. It's still, it's still, I feel like it's Wow, it's gotten replaced by some other. Well, but the thing is, people are still thinking it's great.

So tell me what, okay, so is it a total farce? Is it a total rip? Tell me exactly. There just really isn't the evidence. So you have to look at it this way. And so we're definitely getting into the data. Like I was talking to you about the buzzwords. So the data that is like the Ten Commandments handed down by God.

That's not how it works. Methylene Blue. So there's a lot of mechanistic data. data out there. And it's really important to understand what mechanistic data is because it's scary when you know what it is. And as a doctor, the most disturbing thing I see in the doc fluencer circles are the people that seem to have like gone totally off the rails with just rational thought. Like the rules didn't change. A physician is a scientist. They're just, they just specialize in human health anatomy biology, okay? Science is science. Science is predicated on.

on a thought process, a systematic way to ask a question and find an answer. And that process starts, typically, in a lab setting, because when you get to an organism level, humans are the highest level organism. You can make up stuff, but from an intellectual standpoint, from a complexity of biologist's standpoint. And so trying to test something in a human is very difficult.

And after World War II, it's also illegal, right? Right. So when you look at what, happens how do we begin to test so i observe say something in nature and go that's really interesting i wonder what would happen if i introduced a substance into a cell so you go you take a petrogate plastic dish you put some cells single cells the smallest building block and you introduce the substance if we if we get to the peptide conversation today we'll get well into that yeah so but mechanistic data is observing some effects

on a single cell. You are trillions of cells. A mouse is trillions of cells, okay? One single cell that's typically called them like cultured cell lines, okay? And so seeing an effect on a single cell in a petri dish raises questions. I mean, you can go, oh, well, that's an interesting mechanism or pathway or biologic activity that occurs. But that's all you can say. That has nothing whatsoever to do with the human body. So what methylene blue does for mitochondria in a single cell line, we don't have any evidence that it has an impact at the organism level. Does that track for you? So basically, for the person who doesn't understand all these things, you know, like, for example, me, would you say that it's all hype? There's no real evidence on it, and it's basically

a load of, like a load of crap? I wouldn't say that. Because I think you have to literally parcel out. Why were people taking it? Because Joe, I mean. Besides that. No, no. But there is no besides. Think it.

I mean, there is no besides. It's literally because Joe Rogan said that and he has such a powerful reach and influence. What does he say? What does he say the reason is? Energizing. I mean, again, like I said, in a in a controlled lab setting, what it can do, what methylene can do in a single cell as it relates to mitochondrial performance. Realize in the longevity space, mitochondria and muscle should be synonymous.

Those two parameters drive metabolic health. And metabolic disease, the opposite of health, is the leading cause of death in the United States State. We can unpack it, but cardiovascular disease is not the leading cause of death. That is an effect of the leading cause of death. What blows my mind is we're still 2026, we're still listing off. you know, the statistics, the data around cardiovascular disease, cancer, stroke, dementia, okay, this whole slew of leading causes of death.

But I would submit to you very plainly that you don't want to ask, you know, that list. You want to ask what's causing that list. And there's one thing very plainly, which is the progression of metabolic dysfunction, insulin resistance, synonymous, metabolic inflexibility, and then ultimately, think of it as as a timeline over time the progression to type 2 diabetes because what we can say okay this is nerdy okay but what we can say plainly diabetics type 2 diabetics that's an easy population to study right they have a diagnosis they're in a disease that they have a disease qualifier easy to find in a database what's the so the question we have to ask is what's the impact of type 2 diabetes on all cause

mortality death from anything three to 400 percent higher than the average population. That's a problem. I am not aware of any other single agent relative to all-cause mortality, because we talked about grip strength. We'll get into all these numbers. So all-cause mortality, if you say, well, what is longevity? Well, it's preventing or reducing risk of all-cosmortality. That's the ultimately longevity agent, okay? Is that fair? Yeah, fair. So in a diabetic, three to 400 percent higher likelihood, to die, period. All cause mortality. But look at the impact of type 2 diabetes on the risk of cardiovascular death, 2.5 to 3 times higher than the average population, almost on par with familial

hypercholesterolemia. We all know cholesterol is bad. We can get into that, that conversation, statins for everybody. And I think there's a rational use to it all. But nevertheless, we're so hung up on cardiovascular death, leading cause of death in the United States Day, which, by the way, it's just barely above cancer. But one single agent exponentially increases the risk of death from heart attack, stroke, early onset dementia, cancer, and that's diabetes. To me, that's the smoking gun. So does that make sense?

So does that mean sugar should be eliminated from your diet? Not if you want to. And not directly. No, no. And then does that mean then, okay, I'm just, if it's all about insulin resistance, so is there a reason why everyone then should be on a GLP1? The argument, I think, is being made towards that. The short answer is no. Not everybody should be on a GLP1. GLP ones are tools. Okay, they're not weight loss drugs. That, that to me, Eli Lilly and Nova Nordis should be pitching a fit because they're not weight loss drugs. They're well beyond that. And we see that in the data, right? The impact on reducing the risk of cardiovascular disease, all these things. But as a purist, as a nerd at heart, you have to look at what we call mechanisms of action.

And GLP-1s do one thing and one thing only. They improve insulin sensitivity. Okay. Now, how they achieve that can be through reduction in food noise, very powerful. Slowing of stomach emptying, what we call delayed gastric emptying. but those agents also work preferentially on the pancreas. So they're improving insulin sensitivity. So this goes to my point.

People want to say, oh my gosh, ozimic reduces the risk of heart attack. Yeah, the data said 20% reduction major adverse cardiac events. But it doesn't reduce the risk of heart disease. It reverses insulin resistance. Right. Insulin resistance is the driver between heart disease stroke. So you can logically say this is what I would expect to see. So you just said to me that cancer,

dementia, cardiovascular, you know, heart health, all these things. The root cause of all these things is insulin resistance. So then if you're saying that, then if you're reverse engineering this whole thing, you would say that how do we get not, how do we not be insulin resistant? Correct. That is true. Is then we should be, like we should, okay, taking the tool of a GLP1, how else can we become not insulin resistant?

If we don't want to take that. Move to Europe? I don't know. Yeah. Right. Okay. I'll do that. So yeah, insulin resistance, understanding insulin resistance, the how, the why, the mechanistic nature of it, I think is really important because this is where all these groups come from, the carnivores, the ketoes, all these things. There is no one way.

But wait, then let me, I'm just going to keep on interjecting here because I've got questions. So wouldn't that make the most logical sense if we, if we want, if we don't want to be insulin, and resistant and there is a tool like a GLP 1 or 2 or 3 with all these new ones coming up. Isn't that like, doesn't that make the most sense? Why shouldn't we all be on a GLP 1 then? If that will basically create a situation where we're not going to potentially get cancer or heart, you know, heart attacks or whatever else. Well, I mean, I think the fundamental argument is that GLP1s are drugs.

Let's clear this up. Okay. GLP 1 in situ, produced by the human body as a peptide, short chain amino acid. Yes. Okay. Ozympic is a drug. Yeah, they're all drugs. What makes it different?

Its origins are as a peptide. But what does Big Pharma, the infamous Big Pharma, which, by the way, I'm going to give a quick PSA to the world here because you have a great following. If a doctor uses the terms Big and Pharma in the same sentence, you should walk out. Really? We don't talk about Big Pharma. There is a pharmaceutical industry. We don't work. We're not poisoned. We're not agents of big pharma. It's just total crazy train where people go.

But the important thing to understand is... Are you getting paid by big pharma? You weren't supposed to bring that out. I know, sorry. I only get paid a million dollars a year. Oh, here's another PSA. For everybody, just get it out in the open. OpenPayments.gov. If you want to know if a doctor is being paid by anybody, Big Farmer, otherwise, you go to OpenPayments. dot gov and type in the doctor's name. It's a public database. So all the trickery of like,

oh, you're getting paid. No, listen, I can't be paid literally a penny, not a penny that is not reported. Now, I'm already going to go here, but, and yet a fitness influencer can make millions, show you his new car off the peptides he's hustling you for, and there's no conflict of interest there. No, they just want you to be healthy. They just, they just care so much. So a doctor, for a doctor to take money, okay, which by the way, folks, that was decades ago, decades ago, where, yes, indeed, there was a time where pharmaceutical companies, in my world of spine surgery, yeah, there's a lot of money being exchanged decades ago, back in the 90s, okay, the laws that had been passed to scrutinize,

it is illegal for me to take money and not report it. So it's not, do surgeons or physicians do it? I'm sure they do. I'm sure it happens. That's the reality of life. However, it is actually against the law. So because it's against the law now, oh my God, there's so many things here.

So because it's against the law, is that why so many doctors are hustling? these compound peptides because they can make money off of it. And because they have the DR in front of their name, people will believe them more. And therefore, people will subscribe and buy from their affiliate code and do all the things. And they can make millions of dollars. It's not just the fitness influencers, my dear friend. It are doctors who are doing the same ship because they want to make money. I agree. And I feel. And the chiropractors. Yeah. So I would say very plainly, and I see this all the I commented on it. Someone gave me the distinction of being the number one peptide troll on Instagram

the other day. And I was like, I don't know if I've ever been number one in my life, but this is great. How is that possible? Because I don't know how the algorithm works, but the crap shows up on my feed. So if I see something that's fraudulent, I'm going to comment. So when you tell somebody that this is what BPC will do for you. Yeah. The implication is that there is scientific, evidence of it actually taking place in the human body, and there is not. So saying, we go back to that cell conversation, saying something like Methylene Blue does something in a single cell, devoid of an organism, is actually totally irrelevant. So when people tell me, when I hear a doctor say, it's really exciting, I look at that guy and go, you're lying through your teeth. You and I both

know. It's not at all exciting. Reading mechanistic data is not exciting because do you know the natural history of mechanistic data resulting in outcomes-based human evidence, less than 10%, less than 10%, makes it to the point. Because this is the standard in the pharmaceutical industry. You see something, it's interesting. You put it in a cell, oh, something interesting happens. Now we're going to put it in an animal. Oh, something interesting happens.

Now we're going to put it in a human. Oops, it causes cancer. Or, oops, it doesn't actually do anything at all. So, okay, this is a half. Yes, it makes sense. It does. Because that's the absurdity of the world we're living in. You're telling me you're excited.

And so it's one thing for the general public, with all due respect, to be excited. Because I get it. You're reading something and you're like, oh, this sounds really cool. Or someone told me, oh, my gosh, it regenerates tissue. That's really cool. I don't disagree. But as a physician, as a scientist, it's fraudulent to then tell another human, right? because you're an authority on human health.

I'm using that authority, just what you alluded to. I'm not one to point fingers at intentions or motivations. That's beyond what I can do. But the surface observation is that a doctor who is a trusted resource in human health care is making claims about a bioactive substance in humans, knowing full well that does not exist. Okay, this is not even a leap of faith. It's just crazy train. Yeah, this is blowing my mind because BPC 157 is all over the place. All over it. And everybody I know is taking it. Everybody.

And millions have been miraculously healed. Did you know that? Yeah, well, is it placebo? Is it like psychosomatic? Are people thinking they're being healed by it? Are they getting killed by something else? Like, and they think it's BPC? Is it? It's hard to say. I mean, I can't say definitively. So here's my... You don't take it. I don't. When I had my neck surgery, I did. But why? You just finished saying that it's not necessary. There's no evidence around it. Correct. But? But there is anecdotal evidence, which has value, which has merit, and there is pre-clinical evidence. So here's the difference, okay? Okay.

I'm not anti-peptide. I'm pro-evidence. Really key distinction. Okay. I've read, all the data. If I'm talking to a client, they come to me and they say, Doc, you know, I twisted my knee and my buddy's been on BPC, it saved his life, did I, should I be on that? I say plainly, listen, here's the, here's the situation in BPC. Here's what we know to be true. There's mechanistic data, single cell data that suggests that BPC has healing properties. We've observed that in many, many, many studies. And we also have lab rats that have demonstrated, some element of connective tissue healing, okay? At least 30 separate articles or papers written about it. What we don't have is any, zero, any human evidence. So here's where the gap exists.

Like at a very basic level, who the hell knows? I'm not even going to get into the gray market stuff, but who the hell knows if I inject BPC into my thigh, who knows how long it survives? First step one for a pharmaceutical company to build a drug is something called pharmacokinetics. You actually evaluate it in the order. Does it make it into the bloodstream? Does it survive in the bloodstream? Does it actually deliver to the intended treatment? Those are all things leading up to the ultimate question, which is, does it alter outcomes in a human organism?

So you see how far removed we are from hard facts. So I can't look at you, said, Jennifer, you need to take. BPC to heal your knee. But wait, okay, okay. But you don't say you need to, but would you put me on it just because it might work? If I decide I wanted to go on it. Why did you go on it for your neck? If you had all the information you know, all the research you've done, why did you do it?

Because it might help. Because of the might. You didn't help? Hard to say because I don't ever use BPC as a standalone treatment. Okay. Because we have- PRP or stem cells or- Well, so in that space, we have, we have decades, maybe centuries of data surrounding growth hormone,

and it's reparative or restorative effects. That's clear. That's very linear. And that's in humans, big difference, okay? So I will pretty much uniformly recommend a growth hormone secretagogue, which has been well studied in humans, in addition to the BPC. I mean, truth be told, I personally, as a practicing physician,

I don't trust BPC enough to use it as a standalone. In my practice, I mean, over a thousand clients over time, my data is split down the middle, 50-50, okay? 50% have a, you get to the thing to subjective response. That's a story, which is very, very, very, valuable, placebo effect, possibly. Don't discount the placebo effect. I don't as a physician, right?

There are plenty of people that you don't have a diagnosis for. They have symptoms that for them are significant, severe debilitating. And if I have something that they take and doesn't harm them and they get better subjectively, that's not the worst thing in the world. That's just reality. So then, okay. Does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense to me.

So it's not, so there's a. So there's a balance and people, again, everybody wants to box, specifically box me in. I try to maintain a high level of transparency around what we do and don't know regarding peptides. What I can't do, I can't say, Jennifer, this BPC, so it increases new blood vessel formation through upregulation of VEGF, vascular endothalal growth factor. And that translates to improved tissue healing and repair. If you heard me say that, how would you interpret that? Then it works.

In you. Yeah. But you're a human. Yes. So I do have that data. Well, last time I checked. Yeah, well, I mean, you can always, it's what you identify. Yeah.

But the level of data that we have to make those statements I just made are in lab rats. Right. So if I don't qualify that, do you see the difference? Yes. If I don't qualify as a, Jennifer, this is what we saw in. labrots. Now, I need to tell you plainly that the translation of data, positive data seen in animal models to human outcomes, it translates very poorly. Let me take a quick break to tell you about something that has genuinely changed how I performed throughout the day. For years,

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What about another one, TB 500? TB 500 is even worse, way worse, in Wolverine. And, yeah, the Wolverine stack. Wouldn't you like to be Wolverine? I like, I like that. Yes, you kind of look like Wolverine. What do you do it? I don't have, I don't have the thing is.

Okay, but you look really fit. You're on, you're definitely on something. Oh, have to be. I'm on hard work and consistency. That's what I'm on too. That's what I use. Hard work. Everybody, oh, man, that's a whole other thing.

We're going to get. No, I'm going to start. So, but let's do TB 500. Let's do TB 500. Because this is a really important. The TB 500, and I also want you to talk with the Wolverine. Wolverine, right, right, right. So what I love is that people are literally going back and forth on social media about

combining two peptides in a single delivery model like the Wolverine. So TB 500 BPC 157. And they're talking about, well, can they survive together? Can they basically cohabitate and all stuff? Who gives a rip if they don't even work, period? Right. Like you're talking about layers. See, this is what happens.

This is the influence, right? Is we're bypassing these huge steps in the process. Yeah. And we're talking about, should they be paired together? I'm more concerned, do they do anything? Okay? Yeah. And obviously, you know, as a physician, first, do no harm.

So the safety piece always has to come first. Right. That's why we, in phase one and phase two clinical trials, those are about safety. Phase three is about efficacy. Okay? So you spend years making sure it's safe. in a human being. We haven't done any of that for a peptide. Well, but your body produces it. Well, yeah, produces GOP1 too, so we don't need safety data. And then let's go down the vaccine route. I'm not going

there. So here's really important. The guy to stress about TB 500. This is borders on criminal because TB 500, by definition, is a fragment. It's a short chain fragment of something called thymocin beta 4, TB4. Okay. The thymocin family, thymocin alpha, thymus and beta. These are peptides that were extracted from the thymus, which is a gland that secretes various bioactive substances in a human. And T.A.1, thymus and alpha 1, thymus and beta, four have been studied in humans, not to the extent of, say, like, a drug, but they actually have indications in FDA approval for use, which means they've been studied enough to say they're safe and they actually work, okay?

So thymocin beta 4, we have great studies on. Never even heard of it, by the way. Oh, exactly. But you've heard of TB 500. Yeah. So the game is, okay, so we have this larger molecule that's proven to have biologic effect, positive biologic effect in humans. So we've got to credit it there.

if we just chop off what seems to be the most active part of that molecule, now we're back in the Petri dish, okay? And look what it does in a Petri dish. Oh, wow, it's active. It renders similar effects. Therefore, okay, now we're here, and we're going to make a big leap here. Are you ready? Therefore, TB 500 and TB4 are the same thing.

Does that make sense to you? Would you sign off on that yourself? No. Because that's what's being presented. People talk about TB 500, but what they're referencing are studies. They're referencing scientific evidence in humans of TB4, Thymus and Beta 4. So it's a complete clown show. And one of the kings of this whole narrative is this chiropractor.

I don't have any issue with well-qualified chiropractors. Trevor Bachmire. I mean, this guy is just totally unhinged. He literally lost his license as a chiropractor. and resurfaced as, you know, we were talking about how a lot of criminals, felons, like to resurface as longevity experts. You know why? Because there's no regulation.

Correct. I know. And so they imagine. So right. So I take a lot of heat. Understandably so. I mean, I get it. I don't have any qualms with that.

If you can't defend or provide rationale supporting evidence data to what you do clinically, yeah, I would call that, I mean, some would call it malpractice. Yeah. Okay. But yeah. That's the beauty of the wellness experts and enthusiasts and longevity experts, right? You can literally be picking your nose one day and the next day you're an expert just because you said so. Just because you said so.

Oh, and then mix in a little bit of chat GPT. Oh. You got your certificate now, right? But the tragedy is, you know, people, what's the longevity expert? I get that all the time. I'll give you my definition. Tell me, what do you think a long? Okay, what is your definition of a longevity expert?

So a longevity expert, first, it's a foundational educational background. So could you be a PhD in human something and become a longevity expert? Yes. I mean, you know, David Sinclair is an example, right? He's a PhD lab at Harvard, very well known for his respiratory work, right? Which was a total fraud, by the way. Total fraud, correct. So.

Exactly. But, but, well, don't. talk a really big time fraud. We can talk about the human biologist, Gary Breka. Apparently now when you get a bachelor's degree in biology, you are a biologist. Typically in academic circles, we reserve a title like biologist for a higher level degree. Like a master's at least. Minimum masters.

Minimum. Exactly. Right. Like I myself, it's on my wall, I have a bachelor's of science in human biology. I'm not a biologist, nor would I ever reference myself as a biologist. But again, the rules... Also, it's like me, I have a bachelor's in psychology. I'm not a psychologist.

Oh, I didn't know that. I'm a clinical psychologist. You didn't know that? No, I didn't know that. So, yeah, so the goalposts are kind of constantly moving. Yes. I digress. But really, long short of it with TB 500 is we're talking about all these mechanisms and actions in the human body

that are totally irrelevant. People are referencing literally quoting research from a parent molecule. Okay, so the Wolverine's deck. What is it? Why are people taking it? And that's obviously also a total scam. So I want to be careful here because I really try to adhere to science, evidence. I mean, I'm a physician.

This is where, to me, the doc fluencer role, which can be powerful. There are some really cool people out there that I learn a ton from. Who do you like? And then I knew you said. Dr. Mary Claire, Dr. Mary Claire, obviously from a women's health perspective. I see the women's health movement that's evolved from social media is like probably the greatest thing to come out of social media, at least right now in medicine. But I could list off. There's one woman, I don't have to look it up, but one woman I follow, she's an obesity medicine specialist.

And she gets it. The cool thing about social media is that it does force you to communicate much better. Because you're trying to deliver a nuanced message in 30, 45 seconds. That's really hard to do, right? It's a challenge. And then what I love about social media is that I see it as an element of accountability. Because despite all the quacks that are out there, there are some really smart people. So I don't get to say.

I'm a physician and then just spout off on. At least I don't believe that's that's. It's like basically like a, it's like a, it's like the Wild West. You're going to have people who are good. You're going to have people who are bad. But you have to be super discerning. That's the whole thing, right? You have to know there's so much noise.

Right. And it's over information now. It's too much information. Yeah. Which is why people are confused, which is now getting back to the Wolverine stack. Tell me what you think. So BBC TB, TB 500, like I said, that that is the biggest, hoax that we have. There is absolutely no human evidence and all the rationale or thought around

why this is a synergistic combination, is completely irrational. It's unsupported. Now, if you were going to make something, and so why not TB4, thymus and beta 4? Very expensive, difficult to make. So no one's, so the hustlers are like, hey, I'm going to just make a, just a little, I'm just to sneak this in here. And so I literally see these online peptide companies and stuff that will say TB4 when they're talking about TB 500 doesn't work that way. Like biology doesn't work that way. So at some point in time, we've got to call a spade a spade. That's fraudulent. Right. You're literally describing a molecule that's been studied, chopping a little chunk off of it and calling it the same, which that's just grossly inaccurate. If,

A pharmaceutical company did that. Wall Street would be a massive fallout, massive class action, right? So we have a certain standard that we hold pharmaceutical companies to, but we'll let the wellness guys just make these leaps of faith and, you know, it's so cool. Does that, exactly. So does that mean then TB4 is really effective? Yes, for what it's effective for it. So if people who have money, don't have access to it.

If they have money, can't they get access to TB4? Right now, I would say not really outside of, again, FDA-approved uses. So right now, you know, what happened with the compounding pharmacies, which is a whole another, everybody wants the conspiracy, everybody wants to know the money trail. Right. How about we look at the money trail right now where fitness influences, people who literally have no comprehension of basic science are making millions. they are profiting millions by taking off their shirt and saying,

my stack did this, okay? The stacks thing makes my head want to pop off. Because conveniently, nine times out of ten, their stacks include one to two substances with well-known, well-documented effects, and then a slew of other things that are doing, activating this pathway and moving the needle here. When you're on Reda-Trutide, okay,

and you're seeing radical body composition change real time. Well, we know that's what Red of Trutide does. We have literally tens of thousands of human subjects that we've already proven that. It works. So now, why do you need to add in MOTC, 1amino, 5, this whole slew of your stack, and then try to justify it with these bizarre mechanistic pathways? Again, understanding this, that a mechanistic pathway that exists in a single cell does not mean it exists in a human.

Moreover, it does not mean at all in any way she performed that it's synergistic with another pathway. The idea in these guys that say peptide sciences, the theory that breaks down from the word go is that, well, if I activate this pathway and I activate this pathway, that they're synergistic. That's pure hypothesis, not even supported hypothesis. Okay, but Reda-Trutai is the hot thing right now. Yeah, totally. And I thought it's going to change the world. Right, but I thought it was only, well, I heard, last time I checked, it was only in rats.

It's not human. It's not proven in humans. No, no, no, no, no on the conscience. No, I don't know the exact timeline for FDA approval, but the phase three clinical trials. So, no, Red of Trutides at the end of the, it's coming up to the finish line. It's gone through phase one, two, and three clinical trials. It is the most well-stased.

studied in this is a whole other story that the world has never seen where an actual drug, a pharmaceutical drug called Reda Trutide is maybe being produced in substandard areas, the gray market. Yeah. They're all compounded, the ones that I've heard. Yeah, and I believe, truthfully, I believe some of it's Red of Trutide and some of it's not. Okay. I mean, but Red At Trutide itself, that molecule, that synthesized molecule, that drug, has the most compelling, overwhelmingly compelling science to support its use in humans. We're probably, I don't know, I'm going to guess within a year or two it's going to be FDA-approved.

It's going to be widespread use through pharmaceutical channels. So if someone's buying it compounded right now, but they're still getting great results, is it, what do you say? What do I say? Do you believe in that one? Do I believe in Reditutite? like the effects? Oh, it's, it literally is a life-saving drug. The idea, by the way, that that Big Pharma wants to keep everybody sick. People keep themselves sick. When you gorge yourself

on soda and donuts and you sit on a couch and play video games, you're keeping yourself sick. I hate to be a bear or bad news. Big Pharma has introduced more therapeutics, even in the last decade that are targeted therapeutics to actually reverse disease conditions. But big pharma is just out there to make money. Sure they are. They're publicly traded. That's not a secret. But so are the wellness influencers hustling peptides? They're there to make money. You see any of them hand and stuff away for free? No, they're not like just use my code and get a free shipment of whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So no, Red of Trutide, the GLP class, okay? And again, this is where it's tricky because at a very technical level,

the GOP class is born out of or built off of a peptide framework. Calling GLP's peptides, I think, is a pretty loose. It's a mechanism to alter the narrative because what people are doing is they're taking these wholly unstudied in humans, BPC, TB 500, GHK Copper, epital, I mean, the list goes on and on, wholly unstudied in humans, okay?

and then they throw in a GLP, which is studied into the ground. Decades, decades. The first GLP was brought to market in 2005. Decades of data, proven effective. And then they're like, well, see, look how well peptides work. Let's parcel this out. We have FDA approved drugs based on a peptide framework. Right.

Then we have the influencer hustle peptides with zero human evidence. Not the same camps. Okay, but how? You don't get to lump them together. You don't get to let, but why people are compounding trizepatite and Ozmpic, and it's a fraction of the price. It's really not, by the way. If you look at, here's my belief about, you want to do the GOP conversation? I mean, we don't have to get too far into it.

I mean, GLP. Before we get to GOP, I have one more, I have one more question about peptides. What C I want to know about? And I also want to know about GHQ. GHK copper. Right. So MOTCs, again, I think mechanistically... Why do people take it? So it's a mitochondrial optimizer. I said earlier, right? It's very clear. The relationship, so your densest repository of mitochondria, so energy production, current skeletal muscle. So think of mitochondrial health as synonymous with muscle health, synonymous with metabolic health. That is the

trifecta. No other single parameter that you could trend, and this we can get into longevity metrics, has a more direct positive influence on metabolic health than muscle. And I'll unpack that for you, right? But more muscle, technically I always said more functional muscle, so strength over size, is the single greatest predictor of long-term health and survivability. Okay. But realize that's bolstered through its effects on human metabolism. By the way, V-O-2 Max has nothing to do with insulin resistance. Sorry, sorry to break it to you, folks. So we're saying the leading cause of death in the United States today

is insulin resistance in the form of type 2 diabetes. The single most potent agent we have to directly reverse insulin resistance. We can get into the weeds of remission versus reversal diabetes is muscle, period. Everything else flows from that. Does that track? Yes, of course. It makes sense. So when it comes to...

You keep trying to asking me that. No, no, no. Well, because this is the thing that I wrestle with is you can be knowledgeable and you're not an effective communicator and you might as well not be knowledgeable. Right. If it doesn't land, it's landing, it's landing. If it doesn't land or resonate in honestly, my platform, my position is very simple. I actually went into medicine. I became a doctor.

to help people. Crazy. I know it's crazy. Yeah. I didn't do it to get rich. I didn't do it, whatever, to work for big pharma or anything, right? You're from Ohio. I mean, you're just like a simple, truly, this simple country surgeon. Like, that's my origin. It is not anything fancy or elaborate. And I really believed becoming a doctor, I could help people. And so when you look at what's going on to the United States today, which is a broad landscape of insanity. But when you look at the health crisis in the United States today, the obesity epidemic, we need to get back to the root cause, the actual root cause. If I can change, it's Occam's Razor, simplest explanation to equate to the larger good. If I can change one parameter and it exponentially reduces your risk

of death, I would go after that. Yeah. I wouldn't actually spend a lot of time chasing a bunch of other stuff. And we can talk about how that relates in actual clinical practice, but the truth of the matter is, if you're building healthy, lean muscle as a priority, you are indeed extending your lifespan, health span. If I look at someone who is insulin resistant, we get a fasting insulin on you, and we then proceed to do nothing, don't change your diet, don't change anything about what you do day to

day and we strategically build more muscle. Your fasting insulin will come down. It has to, by definition. Now, where does a gLP fit in? It's a tool. So I can talk to you about how those tools relate, but ultimately I see a gLP as a mechanism to enhance muscle. But don't get there yet. I want to know about motsey. You said the mitochondrial one. Motocondri. You're right. And then GH, don't forget about the copper one. Well, GHK is easy. I'll just put it to you this way. There's no evidence for systemic use. Okay, because I keep on seeing girls. Topical is a workhorse. No, they're getting injections, and they're like, I'm like, why did your skin look so good? And they're like, oh, I take, yeah. So will I look 10 years younger? No. You will if you put topical. So I love GHK copper as a topical application for any, any

invasive procedure of the skin. You violate the epidermis. So that could be like a skin pen, RF micrnealiener, even a laser, okay? So GHK, GHK. A topical works. Excellent human evidence. More than injection. Well, the injection has zero. It's never been studied. So why is everyone taking it?

Because you told me that you took it and your skin looks amazing. You left out the part that you just did a full field ablative laser and you, right? And you high dose omega's and you do vitamin C. You want to talk about, by the way, making skin glow. and heal, you do high-dose vitamin C infusions, okay? But that's the part they leave out. Why? Because they can't sell that stuff. That's not, but I can hustle you for some GHK.

I can put it on my podcast and get a lot of likes. There is zero. There's no debating it. And for some reason, someone will come up maybe from this podcast and be like, no, see, here's the studies. Yeah, it's called topical. If I put it in a cream form, it's actually well studied. Most well studied actually in aging women.

70-year-old women, it's a very effective tool. Where do I get it? Compounding. What's the best one? I compound it. Can you compound some for me? Sure, yeah. Just the top of...

I make lots of concoctions. Really? Oh, yeah. Do you use it? So my, I mean, the workhorse is Tretanoin. Everyone talks about Tretanoin. Okay. What is that?

Tretanon's the oldest... Vitamin A. But this is really important. Yeah. So for the listeners, okay? And for me, I'm listening. I know, I know. You have retinoids.

You've heard every say, oh, you need retinoid. No, you need retinoic acid. They're different. Retinoids are retinal-like compounds. So you see those, you can get, now there's some that are OTC over the counter. You get at Walgreens, okay. Retinoic acid, the pill form, acutane, you've heard of that, right? So the topical form, tritonoin, is pure retinoic acid.

And so retinolac acid is the most potent, is the single most critical anti-aging skin health modality. Every single person should have a high-quality retinone. It can't be, I can't make the same claims for the stuff on the counter at Target. Where do I get it? From a doctor's office. And they've had to prescribe it? Yeah. And how often do you use it?

So I try to have every one of my clients build up to nightly application. Tretanoic acid, or excuse me, retinic acid, tretanoin, at the concentrations that I would recommend. So for you, I'd recommend 0.1%. Okay. If you just started at 0.1%, it will fry your face. Now, I would submit that probably six to eight weeks of, you know, some redness, some flakiness, some real irritation,

you'll get past that initial phase and it's a glow up for life. But the way I do it in my clinical practice, because no one's jumping around to do it is I start at 0.025 and then I progressively work up. So we start extremely light, have a great vehicle. This is, don't worry, I don't get kickbacks. We love skin better. Skin better by far and away, I think, is the most powerful potent skincare line, medical grade skin care. And so that starts at 0.025% retinoic acid. So can I buy that? Yeah, from a physician's office. So you can you, you can prescribe it for me. Yeah, yeah. I think it's, that is, that is. That is.

is a really nice delivery vehicle, so it keeps your skin hydrated. It's, you could do the experiment, like on your form and give you 0.1%. I mean, it's pretty irritating. It's pretty harsh. It's only six to eight weeks. And so like a lot of dermatology colleagues of mine

are like, ah, it's only six to eight weeks. I'm like, come on, really. Your whole face is flaking off, bright red, or itchy. Not too many people sign up, but if you sequentially, if you go 0.025.0.0.1. and you work up to it. I usually with clients, it's like six to eight months. I'm in no hurry because ultimately when you get to that point one concentration, that's the sweet spot. But I love that with topical with topical estrogen. Oh, that works so well. Yeah. So I make my own little

concoctions. It's a very potent, it's a powerful hormone for skin health and skin turnover. But can't it like seep into your bloodstream, the estrogen? No, no, no. I'm all about finding sustainable ways to optimize performance, the kind of work that actually moves the needle on how you feel and function. And that's why I really need to tell you about Prolon's five-day program. Most of us are chasing quick fixes that never get to the root of the problem. And the result is sluggish energy, brain fog, and bodies running below its full capacity. But Prolon changes that by triggering your body's natural repair and renewal process,

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program. Go to prolonlife.com slash Jennifer Cohen and use Jennifer Cohen to claim your discount and bonus. That's prolonlife.com slash Jennifer Cohen and use code Jennifer Cohen. Okay, so what if I just use the topical estrogen? Does that work without the Tretano is the workhorse. Tretanoin, literally every single person that wants to age well proactively should be on threat knowing. And I would argue, like, all the people are like, oh, it's, it's the GHK and all that stuff. And then they refer you to the link to buy. They're probably doing something else. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's just the truth of it. Now, people are going to flip out and be like, well, you're lying. I get this all the time. Well, how do you account for the millions of people that have

been cured of X, Y, and Z with BPC? I say, that's great. If it works for you, that's great. I've used it in my clinical practice. I track every patient. This is part of being an expert. It requires documentation, data analysis, and interpretation, right? That's how you're an expert. In my practice, and really, if you pin people down, BPC's a 50-50. And last time I checked, flipping a coin is not, if I said, we're going to do surgery on you

and we'll flip a coin to see if it's going to work. Would you sign up for it realistically? I had someone tell me, I said 50-50, and they're like, so you're going to do. You're saying it works great. No, I'm saying it's placebo effect. There's a 50-50 chance. Do you know what this reminds me? Have you ever seen Demand-Demmer when they're like, would you go with me?

Yeah. One in a million. So you're saying. That's what it is. So you're saying there's a chance. Exactly. And that's the, that is the essence of the peptide hustle. So you're saying there's a chance.

So you're saying there's a chance. So a 50 plus billion dollar industry. That was 2024. 50 plus billion dollars spent on peptides for the hopes of something. So you're saying there's a chance. Is a chance worth 50 billion? I don't think it is. But the tragedy is people would rather take that chance than just do the basics up.

Tretnoan, I mean, 20 bucks? I mean, it's dirt cheap. GHK, it's a nice theory. But again, GHK copper, Tretanoan, Esterdial cream. Now, that we're talking. And you'll see meaningful results. So, wait, guess back to the Tretanoin. So then would you put the 0.025 on every night?

Yes, for sure. Okay, like what would be the routine? Would I wash my face, then put serums? How about the serum? Yes, so usually, so the application of the Trette product, whether it's pure Tread or it's in a carrier vehicle. And then that's when you put whatever serums, lotions. Tread first, though. Beef tallow, butter.

So you think beef tachio. No, I'm being sarcastic. Okay, good. Thank God. It's just outrageous. I mean, you stick your head in an ice bucket and then you put butter on your face. Yeah. Like, who is coming up with this stuff?

And it would be one thing if like we didn't have tried and true proven. But yeah, you want this, the not so secret secret, every one of my clients, regardless of age. Now, a younger woman, for example, I would keep on 0.025 30s into their 40s unless they demonstrated more, accelerated age-related change. So for every day, you'd wash their face, put that on. Evening, evening, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, and then you could put your serums.

Yep. And then. Or some moisturizer. I would always do a moisturizer on top of it. So when, how often should we use the estrogen on our face? It can be, it can be periodized, but on a daily basis. Like during the day or at night? At night.

Yeah, I would do it at night. Not during the day? During the day is when I would use whatever your standard regimen is. Typically some type of moisture, some type of delivery vehicle. You know, a lot of these products have vitamin C, so on and so forth. I don't. How about hyloronic acid? Complete clown show.

Really? Topical hyerronic acid is only matched by injected, right? Skin V. Have you heard of SkinVee? No. Allergan bought SkinVie. It was well over a billion dollars. I don't want to misspeak.

Skin v is a injectable, just like your, you know, H.A. fillers that you're supposed to inject into the skin to deliver halioronic acid. Being in Colorado, by the way, holluronic acid is a workhorse in my practice. Howluronic acid is hydration and volume. Think of it that way. Yeah. Right. So its basic function is to pull water into the extracellular space. So you get that nice plump hydration. And in Colorado, we're bone dry. So it's huge. there is actually a technology that works so well. It's actually proven in large-scale studies, 200 plus percent increased in halioronic acid production, 220 to be exact, but it's a technology. What is it?

It's called Xion. So it's a combination of radio frequency and ultrasound heat. Have you ever heard of all therapy? Yeah, I have. Think of it as kind of best. It's a cousin of that. I wouldn't consider it a similar modality. But the data around how ironic acid production is rock solid.

We use skin v in my practice. I'm free to say all this stuff, right? Yeah. People may throw fit. Skin v is a disaster. I've never once seen a good result. Halluronic acid is a workhorse for skin health. Again, so we use it.

Think of us even like we'll use this technology. It's anywhere from a five to eight minute treatment. My female clients will come in the morning. of a social event because you get this immediate production of holyeronic acid. So you get this nice kind of, it's a glow up, but it's a real glow up that you actually glow. So you get a nice little pink, a little plump. They go to their event, rock stars. But that's the technology.

Okay. So then just to be clear, topical halioronic acid, I am not aware as a physician of any study that demonstrates efficacy for topical. high erroneous acid because howlyronic acid exists below the cell outside of the cell okay so to cross an airtight watertight barrier called the epidermis you think about that okay kind of silly it's so you're right but it sounds good so it does yeah yeah and and i i was stressed very importantly howlyuronic acid collagen elastin holoerotic acid those are the three most critical elements of skin skin health. What is it? Collagen? Collagen. Elastin, right? So you've got your, collagen is your support structure. Elastin gives your skin that elasticity. And all these

obviously decreased with age and then halioronic acid. So those are the three components. So every product on the market will make some reference to those. But bear in mind, what is critical for collagen production, we know what happens when you don't have it. it's a vitamin, right? Vitamin C. So you said high doses of vitamin C. What is that mean? Eight to ten grams. Of what? Vitamin C. No. How? How do you? How do? Intravenous. So we should take, where do we do that? Come to my office. It's only took me like an hour and a half to get here. So yeah, I mean,

it's not that far. That's not that. Right. I could just take a point. I get it off on a plane. Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of, that's become kind of one of my, so now we veer into a little bit about what we do in the non-invasive aesthetic space, but vitamin C people forget that that is by far and away the most potent element of collagen synthesis, that having optimized levels, I use it, I mean, it's been described in cancer treatments as well, but using pretty high dose is very powerful.

People are going to argue this, people are going to throw fits that I'm saying this, but anytime we're doing an invasive procedures, like an RF micronealing energy-based procedure, we'll run a drip of high-dose vitamin C. Really? And then what I'll finish off the treatment with is what we talked about is plus or minus PRP, but we use PDGF, platelet-derived growth factor. That's the best. It's the only.

Yeah. Okay. The exosome people are going to crap their pants because we get such great results and we actually have no research to support it and we actually are printing money. No one likes to hear it. But I only, I'm really stressed in my practice, I'm only going to use the things that have clear supporting evidence. Yeah, so you still believe in RP. You still believe in PRP as a best thing. Yes, yes. What's the difference? PRP or what's the other one you said? So I always, in truth, I'm giving away all the secrets here. I add PDGF. PRP, platelet, rich plasma. Yeah, with. Platelets are Amazon.

trucks, okay? They contain a whole slew of growth factors. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One of the highest concentration growth factors in a platelet is platelet derived growth factor. So I just use, it's synthesized in a lab, what we call recombinant, pure PDGF, and I mix that with PRP. That way, there's, there's always this debate around PRP and biologics, PRP, PRF, in that as we age is the quality of our platelets. Yeah. Less. I don't know of any scientific evidence one way or the other, but I don't take chances. Imagine this.

PDGF, recombinant, PDGF is 10,000 times more potent than PRP. Wow. And this is for when do you use this? For what? So I will use it. My general sense of it is any time we violate the epidermis for any type of procedure, I'm going to use it. Do people use it? Is it common?

Topically. I think it's gaining more traction. But again, there's, what Instagram is, it's just a brilliant MLM marketing system, right? It's just a giant marketing scheme. You're right. I mean, you get the right person. Kim Kardashian says, oh, I use exosomes on my face, right?

Guess what's going to sell? Exosomes. Does that mean they do anything? No, not necessarily. So, but that's, that's the part about Instagram, that's crazy crazy what about if i just go to if i just get like call my friend um my friend dr a malcolm shout out he has a high like drip hydration or concierge md whatever and i said hey can you come and give me a vitamin c drip would that be great for my skin i think so i do it bear in mind i do it more

strategically so let me an example what should i do give me so like any if you're getting a treatment with an energy based device so that's like a blade of laser therapy what if i'm doing that. I don't see there being, there's not enough thing for your buck. Oh, not a thing for my back. Okay. So take advantage of, this is where you're always looking for synergies, right? I mean, efficiency is the name of the game in my practice, whether it's clinical, whether it's aesthetic, shortest distance between two points still a straight line. Yep. Least amount of resources. So if I'm going to invest in an energy-based procedure, we're doing RF micronealing. We're giving you a shot of energy. We're violating the epidermas. I'm going to put everything into your system,

that's going to facilitate a maximum tissue response. Okay, that's why you're doing the input output. Okay, so that's why you say vitamin C, that's what you're saying PRP, PDGF. Yeah. So we just slam it. What do you do? All this stuff? Oh, yeah.

You look like, you look good. Yeah, I'm. And you're a guy. I'm a geek about it, yeah. Yeah. I could tell you do a lot of skin care. You look very put together. No, I have a wonderful wife that tells me, like, she puts the things.

out in order and I just do it. Like what? Again, this, I don't, nothing for shout out to skin better. I do love their line. So I use the sequence. Yeah, yeah. And what's the sequence? The sequence is, I got to think.

So it's Alta advanced. So it is a vehicle for a vitamin, basically a topical vitamin application. But it's also very hydrating. And then. And you're not getting paid by saying this. No, no, no. Nope. You want to know if I'm not getting paid?

Yeah, you can go check. Just go check. Yeah. You know, it's the product line we use. And then I have to, I can give you the whole, the whole rundown. But we do that in sequence. Now, they do have a topical H.A. product that I've been using. So I'm always open to things.

I don't want it to come out as like really dogmatic and black and white because it's not. I mean, medicine is nuanced for a reason. There's a reason it's the practice of medicine. Yeah. Because there is. Yeah, keep on practicing different things. That's the human part of it. And that's why AI will not replace doctors.

Because one, AI is not compassionate, above all else. Or empathetic. Yeah, exactly. So do that. Then to do a moisturizer and then topical sunscreen, mineral-based sunscreen. So they have tinted, trust me five years ago, if you said, would you use the tint and sunscreen?

I'd be like, what are you talking about? But that's my go-to. So what you need is... Why tinted? Just like, I mean, I'm pretty pale and so it gives you a little color. But tinted or otherwise. But SPF-75, sorry Paul Saladino, ionizing radiation is still ionizing radiation. Yeah.

And the weathered look is out. Yeah. Like, especially for men. In Colorado, for example, there's been a big, I see a big shift or trend. Now more and more men are coming in like, okay, I got to do something. But the thing is men and women just need to be starting much, much earlier. Yeah. Start, literally, start on a retinoid in your 20s.

That's true story. For me. And that's a trotenoin. That's a trotenoin. That's optimal. That's what I would recommend it. If someone comes to me and says, what do I need to do for life? Very low dose.

Again, age-related or decade-related. Yeah, yeah. But trinan, trotinone's the base. That's your nighttime, hydrating moisturizer. and then a quality sunscreen, mineral-based sunscreen. That's what you need.