Habits and Hustle - Episode 64: Cindy Eckert – CEO of The Pink Ceiling, Sold 2 Pharmaceutical Companies for $1.5B

Episode Date: May 19, 2020

Cindy Eckert is CEO of The Pink Ceiling and has Sold 2 Pharmaceutical Companies for $1.5B. Not just a savvy businesswoman, but a driven champion for women’s power and the reclamation of their bodily autonomy, Cindy tackles the extremes of high-risk pharmaceutical trials and trading, “female viagra”, and the “taboo” topic of women’s sex and pleasure. Speaking especially to those women who may not be “losing their lives”, but have “lost their lives as they know it.” With the Little Pink Pill, Pinkubator, and the Pink Ceiling, she challenges the tech and medical world with the importance of female-fronted ideas all while sporting pink shoes, pink lipstick, and a pink track jacket. Youtube Link to This Episode Cindy’s Website  Cindy’s Instagram  ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Unexpected costs can make or break small businesses. That's why you need Zinch. A direct lender that understands you can't wait for a traditional loan. If your business is generating over $10,000 in monthly revenue and has been a business for over six months, Zinch can fund up to $250,000 in less than two days. Get pre-qualified and see how much financing you can get with Zinch. Plus, get your application fee waived. $250 value. Go to financing.works.com. Again, financing.works.com. A little bit of a range pursuant to California Finance Lenders Law License.

Welcome to the Habits and Hustle Podcast. A podcast that uncovers the rituals, unspoken habits and mindsets of extraordinary people. A podcast powered by habit nest. Now here's your host, Jennifer Cohen. Alright guys, welcome to Habits and Hustle. I really like this guest we have today. She is a true badass, a real boss.

Her name is Cindy Eckert. And she is a woman who not just sold one company but sold two companies one for I don't know a billion dollars and is another one for half a billion. Oh, you're getting that one, the billions that are going to weigh better. But still like I thought like that was like the big thing and then you're like oh no actually sold a company before that for a half a billion. So you know besides wanting a loan for me. Oh that's the pink seal and we'll talk about that. we're going to talk about that.

Exactly. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. So listen, where do we start? What Cindy, besides Cindy created what is considered the first of ever female biagra. That's right. So it doesn't work like a biagra. That's right. Right. So it's not, it doesn't work like a like a Viagra would. That's right. But the fact that she was the first person ever to

create a medication, a pill that for women. And I think that so it's not only is it interesting because usually people think of men in that space. Yeah. But you saw a real need biologically for women. No, there were, and by the way, when I started, there were 25 drugs for some form of male sexual dysfunction, and not a single one for women. And I mean, you can just look at those numbers and know that that doesn't add up. Women are equally affected by things actually more affected

than men by things going wrong in the bedroom, and yet we were running away and not addressing that. Why do you think that is? Is there shame behind it? I think probably among us is women we don't talk about it. There probably is a shame factor, a feeling very alone in what we're experiencing. I think if I elevate that to sort of societally, we value sexual pleasure for men and we dismiss it for women.

So I'll tell you that in more simple terms. If something goes wrong for a guy, we go, oh, biology. And we rush in and we figure out how to fix it. If something goes wrong for women, we go, oh, psychology. And we pat around the shoulder until we take a bubble bath. And what we're doing is so grossly oversimplifying it, especially when it comes to sex, right? Sex has psychology at play for sure, like how we feel about our body, how we feel in the relationship. But man or woman biology is at play, and that's what really

ignited me, is we had all this great science, but we were ignoring it because of our sort of belief system, if you will, about whether or not female sexual pleasure matters. You know, it's amazing, besides a lot of things with you, but the fact that it was a very difficult process. It wasn't like, oh yeah, you know, I thought of this idea and it was easy to kind of execute on. Oh no. Walk me through.

Yeah. Like, how difficult it was to get it approved by the FDA and the process. Okay, so I'll make it really simple. So I'll say, what if my pill had been blue? We all know about the little blue pill. I created the little pink pill. So with the little blue pill, the FDA considered it met such an important

unmet medical need. It was so important that men weren't getting erections that they rushed it through approval in six months. It took me six years. I had three times as many patients worth of scientific data. Just thinking of that for a second, the disparity to the same number of women feel like they've lost their desire for sex. They were happy with it at one point. It's sort of gone away. That's causing them, they're bothered by it. They want to do something about it. That prevalence is the same as men who have ED, but look at how differently we treated it.

And the process was eye-opening for me because I actually came to this having run one of those companies with one of the male sexual health drugs. So I knew what the path looked like. In its science, right? It's placebo control, blinded studies, you have to meet outcomes that are specified by the FDA and we did all that work and we met all the outcomes, but they turned me down. Why? Why did they turn you down? Honestly, everything in medicine comes down to risk and benefit, right? And it feels very objective.

But the truth is, it's totally subjective. And if we assign no value to the benefit of something, then we won't take any of the rest of it seriously. And we, honest to God, we were making a value judgment about whether or not it mattered. People have said to me a million times, okay, Cindy, come on. Like you're such a crusader here, nobody's gonna lose their life from this. And my answer is simple, go talk to them, go talk to those women because they're

losing their life as they know it. They feel worse about themselves. They've lost some of that moxie, that sexual power that we have and bring into this world. And frankly, so many of them were losing relationships over it. Now, so for you to start the process and to even do this, or if you don't mind me asking, were you somebody that was affected by this? Like, what made you decide that you're gonna be the pioneer to do this? You know, I was in a sexless marriage at the time.

And I think it was maybe deeply empathetic to listen to women with this condition. The truth at the heart of it is I was just ignited by the injustice as just a geeky sort of science lover. First of all, like we knew from brain scan studies that there was a biological basis for some women and we're not doing anything about it. That probably was the biggest injustice, but once I really understood the scientific, you know, um, discovery here, I spent a year just talking to women, and I think I could relate. I could relate to, you know, how alone you feel in this, how you don't bring it up, you're embarrassed

to bring it up, maybe with your doctor or even your girlfriends. And it's ridiculous, because this is a medical, it's is a medical condition that has been characterized since the 70s. This has been in the medical literature in a diagnosis for decades, and yet we've never given women a solution for it. So I'm just going to ask the most basic question here. Sometimes people would think, well, I think it's mental for women, right? What turns a woman on is very different

than what turns a guy on, right? Guys are all about visual, women all about like the mental part. Sometimes people say, well, maybe the girl, maybe she's just not attracted to the guy for all sorts of other emotional reasons, right? So when you do a brain scan on somebody, how would you do it to know how accurate? Yeah, accurate it is. So, so what you do is the basically what you're seeing is you're taking a woman who says, you know what? I like, I love my partner. I once was interested in having sex with them. It's like the switch went off. I never think about it anymore when I lie in bed. I do my to-do list. Right. Like sexual thoughts are not they're not there anymore, and they're really bothered by it and wanna do something about it.

Okay, so that's sort of, I've described who this patient type is. Put her in an MRI, put a woman who, you know, desire is not constantly on, it ebbs and flows, but she's happy with where she's at. Expose them both to erotic stimuli, things that would turn them on,

brains light up totally differently. Really? Totally. So radically differently. And I think what you're seeing there is we're quite animalistic. When we have sex, I like to describe as we shut down all the tabs in our brain to enjoy the experience. And what you're really seeing on those images is that women who are struggling with this biologically can't quiet the mind.

And it's why they never fantasize anymore. They never, they might never have been initiators, but they don't even respond to partners when you know they're sort of nudging them and interested in having sex. No matter how they how they think they're attracted to them. Totally. This is the story I hear over and over again and it's so sad. I'll tell a story. I got off the stage. I gave a speech not that long ago. I was talking about this and a woman like beelineed for me and she came over and she said, I heard you on a podcast. She said, my husband and I were already worth divorce attorneys and she said and it was this is what started it. Like sex, once it leaves the bedroom, it spills over to the breakfast table. Like communication breaks down, it becomes all these resentments in the relationship,

but sex had started it. She never wanted it. And she said, I was sitting in my car and I thought, what if it's this? Nobody's ever told me that it's possible that this could be something outside of my control of bringing chemistry issue. and she went to her physician She was diagnosed. She went on that product and she said can I take a picture with you? I want to show my husband and we're still together That is I hear that story constantly and what her husband was experiencing was You're not attracted to me anymore. You don't find me sexy. She said he went to the gym every day

He was trying to be and she was saying no, but I find you sexy But I do I just don't ever think about sex. I hear this story every single day of my life and I consider it Just such a Disturbs to all those women that we don't tell them there's a possibility That they could a possible and by the way, proven right way to address it. Okay, so then you're, because I remember you saying, I'm even lastly at the dinner,

you said there's a particular personality type that tend to have this issue. More classically type A. More classically type A. And the reason I say that is that brain center that we're looking at is the information processing center, the brain type A's are, they're going, right?

They have like a very highly developed and they can't quiet the brain down. So I often will see, and it really is women who have the condition, even if they don't know that there's a name for it. Right, right. They describe it like incredibly similar, right? All of them and they talk about line and bed

doing their to-do list. And actually, if they have success on Addy, what they then say is, oh my god, like, I had a fantasy. I can't remember the last time I had a fantasy. And I think what that's telling you is how truly wired we are to want sex. But your brain can sort of turn off on you. Right. And you're no longer even having those thoughts. So they'll say, Oh, I was like driving in my car and I sent a little sex in the middle of the day. And you know, I can't remember the last time I did that. So how does it

mean? How does it work? Like, did it turn? Does it turn on us? And a neuro synapsis? Does it turn off a neuro synapsis? It basically works on the balance between serotonin and dopamine. So dopamine is excitement, like the excitatory factor for sex, and serotonin inhibits us. It's why actually a lot of us know antidepressants or maybe on them, the number one side effect is it kills your sex drive. And that's because of what it's doing with serotonin. It's further inhibiting you. So the way that Adi works is we believe on that sort of balance, basically between those two factors to have a pro-sexual effect.

Wow. OK, so that's very scientific. More or less, like the positives on the positives for sex and the negative on the negatives for sex. You know what's ironic is that if you were having more sex, maybe you'd be off of those antidepressants and all those other medications, right? Because you have to increase your dopamine.

A lot of times I do feel like when women have broached this conversation, and before there was an option for women, not surprising that a lot of people try to give them that to sort of improve their mood. If you aren't having sex and you don't care, never take anything for it, right? The whole Mark characteristic of this is a really very distressed over it. And so you can imagine when that distress shows up in the office, sometimes people just

try to treat it like mood. You know, like, oh, if I can just give you this, well, then you'll be more interested in actually, your further compounding the issue. Right, right. So then, how does it, so like, from what I remember, from here, from my friends, not from anyone in my own life, so I don't want anything.

But like, if you take, if you are, if you pop a biographer, it works for a finite period of time, right? For like six hours. Yeah. Four hours. You're saying you all know the famous commercial line, right? Right. That's right.

The erection for four to six hours, right? That's right. And you basically, you don't work like that, right? You know, it's not like, it's not for like this to take this medication and you're like, basically horny for like four hours. No, right. It's not like that. It's really, it's much more, I hate to call it,

it's not an anti-depressant, but it's much more similar in that you take it daily. It returns you to a baseline that you once knew and you're sort of, you know, it's like on board for when the moment is right, so to speak. But, you know, Viagra, it is an important contrast because so much of the media calls us female Viagra, which, contextually, I get,

it's like the same kind of game changer for women. It would explain it, right? But it's not at all how it works. Viagra, Cialis, that's directed blood flow. That's a mechanical lift. That's hydraulic lift, right? Right, in a very directed way. What's so interesting, though, is like, imagine,

that's not desire. And in fact, if a man had no interest, he won't get an erection. One of those pills, desire is what starts the party for us. Right? The interest in having sex when we study sex and women we look at. So, oh, sorry, so hold on. So you're saying that if a guy isn't, if he doesn't desire you, whatever whatever the erection won't even happen Desires what kicks off this the party for sex a hundred percent you got a want like it's you know this cascade effect in essence Like if you study the model. It's hopefully for women desire a rousal orgasm And we look at pain factors for women too that there's no pain present But that's kind of the continuum, if you will, of sex.

So then you go on this medication, it's called Adi. For those of you who may want to try it, for like, is it like, you're going for as long, no, but for as long as you, is it a fine night period of time, like three months you get off, like do you cycle it? We don't want it all the time. I think what will happen in real world

is women will, depending on sort of stage of life or where they're at. Like I don't know how long they'll stay on it. What I do know is if you go off of it, your symptoms do return. So you can't reset. If you will, it's sort of a pink pill a day keeps this issue at bay. You have to say right? That's the truth of you need to kind of stand it not unlike, again, those products that work on brain chemistry, the antidepressants are the one that most of us kind of understand, because they've been around for so long.

You need to take them daily. Whether you're doing intense to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into warrior one in the break room before your shift, whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. You're inhaling and long exhale. Peloton is for all of us, wherever we are, whenever we need it.

Download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier, or paid subscription starting at 12.99 per month. Right. So what about, I'm just gonna play devil's advocate, right? Like hormones, right? So people have lots of different hormonal imbalances besides just for depression, whatever. If you're aging, if you just had a kid.

And so therefore your hormones are all out of whack. When do you know again, if it's hormonal, or when it's just lack of desire, or just like you're biologically not, is it because at some point, this is where I'm trying to get at, like you're saying that type A personality is much more likely to have it?

Does that mean that throughout their life they've always been a certain way, or is it also, you can evolve. Yeah, to have this issue. So I'll say, if your entire life, you've never had any interest in having sex. And this is where the adicons in. No, it's different.

I would say, I would say that that's worth a further exploration. I think really this condition, they were once happy, it has changed. And I think in a workup with a physician, they might look at hormones if appropriate. What's truly happened is a lot of women have received testosterone in an attempt, basically, to before there was anything validated FDA approved. People were using testosterone off label in women. They're using it now.

They still do, correct. All the time. And what I'll tell you is, yes, I think postmenopausally, we can look at what that sort of effect is, but the notion, and I used to sell a testosterone for men, that I know people used off label in women. And I think that we're masculinizing in essence, and it doesn't come with outside effect, right?

It comes with deepening of voice, facial hair, all of those things are testosterone related. And so what I would say is desire, we know is really in the brain. That's how you would address it. I'm not saying you don't look at the hormone complex, but even for a lot of women where they've had a baby, the hormones have normalized.

They say, but wait a minute, I still, I don't have any sex drive anymore. And I'm not talking immediately following me. I'm talking a couple years later. And the hormones are where they should be by all the studies, but this has been knocked off of kilter. Well, I've got two things I'm curious about, because what happens in life, right?

Like, I've got two kids. I mean, a lot of people, when you turn a certain age in life, you have like life issues. Of course. And stress. Like, you have kids to deal with, but work to deal with, it got aging parents. Yeah.

You got so many different, you know, things to deal with. Yeah, yeah. Can that not play a part in someone's sex drive? First, I'm 100%. So I guess I get confused. I get confused like when do you know if it's circumstantial? Yeah, sure.

Versus biological. Here's a good litmus test. If you have no sex drive in LA, you're busy. You're on a deadline. The kids are crying in the room next door. But you go on vacation to London and you're like, baby, let's go. Probably not you.

That's situational, right? So if you can remove sort of the no time, distress, no energy, I will tell you though for millions of women by all of the data around the globe, it would be a luxury to say honey, not tonight. It's not about no time, no energy, no privacy. That's not what it is. It's that's a switch, if you will, has been turned off and they don't get there, even when they've removed all of those treasures. I wonder if it's also like, you know,

if you don't use it, you lose it type of thing, right? Yeah. You get so used to being in a certain kind of cycle in life. Yeah. That eventually it becomes dull, right? Yeah. So you're gonna like reignite something, maybe that, maybe I would imagine like if once you take

at you or whatever, even though you're saying you have to take it to make it active all the time, it's still like once you start doing something it's easier to keep on doing it. Well I think you know there's a beautiful marriage here of medication that sort of is an intervention biologically to something going on and even even the therapy angle, like I think this is a beautiful compliment because let's be honest, if you haven't wanted sex for years,

you've developed a dance in your relationship already. You go to bed earlier, you avoid those things. I mean, this is what, like, there's a lot of avoidance behavior. And like, once you get on this at the spark reignites, your partners may still not initiate. Because they're so used to being turned down that you can really, like, you can, I think, retrain that in a really comprehensive way by using both approaches.

But, you know, there's, let's just say it did reignite and you got into a new sort of pattern set. And then you went off of it. Good. just say I did reignite and you got into a new sort of pattern set and then you went off of it. Good, like, I love that. Right, I love that. Like I love that notion that it would get you back into if you will that routine because something helps get you there.

Right, so are you take it then? I do, you do take it. I guess you have to say that though. I do. I don't need it. I'll tell you very honestly, I'm often very cautious about saying that because I don't want anybody to assume what it has done for me will be identical

what it does for them. So I'm very careful about this is no testimonial. But yeah, absolutely. I mean, there was a reason I was such a crusader for this to get it through. Like, when I was saying earlier, you had to have had some kind of like personal like effect of it. For sure.

Right. No doubt about it. And I do say, you know, with this, there's no such thing as, you know, one size fits all panacea. Like there's no, in any medication, right? By the way, nothing is, one size fits all. It has, you know, it has upsides. It has downsides.

There are risks to all things you take including things over the counter So you really do need to make this decision with your health care practitioner. What is a side effect that could do have side effects? Okay, so the the top three are dizziness nausea and sleepiness Sleepiness we dose the adi at bedtime. So intentionally take it right before we go to bed. Yeah, work as an ambience. Yeah, that's we get we get we get a lot of that reported right for a lot of when we're on sleep medications to like having that benefit. Women tend to stop sleeping well as they age. Well, there's so many issues as you age, right? Like it's that's why it's a good never you can't tell what is what like if it's a hormonal thing is it a right? That's why it's a good never you can't tell what is what, like if it's a hormonal

thing, is it a circumstance thing? That's why I was asking you about your medication and like a hormonal thing. Then, okay, I know also like some people have taken not me, so I don't want to be late, but women have tried taking Viagra. Yeah, okay. And if it's just a blood rusher to the penis, then why, okay, what happens to a woman when they take, it works, people like, or so, I think it works. People say it works. It doesn't work. I have no idea. I'm just guessing here. I'm like, I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm pure like pure as song like, what is the scientific data? I'm showing shown in like a placebo controlled trial? I think the only thing you could affect is again,

it's not igniting like desire, desire or your libido. It would just be directing blood flow and causing some engorchement. So maybe it's placebo though, right? Because people don't know that. So I mean, I've had friends like, not close friends, but people were like, oh yeah, I went on, I tried it.

Yeah, yeah. And they're like, it was great. But I think it's also like the placebo effect. They might have had, look, they might have had more blood flow, they might have had whatever that may have been. I mean, I think that could have been. I think so. But I don't think it made them want it.

And really, if you look at this field, and one of the things that again really motivated me when I went through it is it's not like in the absence of treatment women haven't been seeking treatment. Right. It's why they're taking something like Viagra that hasn't been proven right to be effective for women. Or recreational problems. Yeah and I think there's so much unfortunately like I want to call it pseudo pseudoscience out there like all these BS, you know, take this, take a

trade, take tree bark and it's just not scientifically bright. And for me, it's not that I don't want women to have access to lots of options, but I want them to have access to real scientific options. Right. And we need to fix that in women's health. 4% of all research dollars go to women's health. 4% I know. It's so crazy.

That's ridiculous. I know. It is actually. It's crazy. And then, so, do you think a percent, like a statistic, like you take Adi and your sex drive goes up 50%, 80%, what is 80% more desire? 80% percent.

80% percent. 58% more satisfying sexual events and 75% less distress. And those are all measured by scientific instruments. It's called the female sexual function index is one of them female sexual distress scale. So these are instruments we've used scientifically for years. Based on how many people?

We had 13,000 women total in our trials. We're the largest ever new drug application for women. I'm really proud of our scientists. I'll give you context. The average new drug in the US has approved on just under 800 patients. We have 13,000 patients. Now, I will say that includes rare diseases. So there's somewhere the population size is small, but even like a viagra with 3000 patients. Really? So just imagine that data set is a pretty extraordinary difference. So is a price point like any other medication then? Yes, it's insurance covering it. Yeah, that was one of my crusades. You better believe it. For 20 years we've covered viagra, Seattle, us for men. I wanted parity coverage for women and 70%

of the time insurance covers this. We're still, we're not 100%. We may never get there, but I'm really damn proud of 70% of the time. So price, you can get started for free. So I want people to have access to be able to do it. Zero dollars out of pocket. And then if your insurance covers it 25 bucks, never more than 99 bucks until you're insurer covers it. That's really amazing, so then, oh my God. So you, first of all, I don't even want to begin to start with you because the billion dollars,

a half million billion dollars. So what happened? Did you sell this? I did. And then why are you still, you say, like, so yeah, what did you sold it for a billion dollars? I just, who Did you sell this? I did. And then why are you still per se? So yeah, what did you sold us for a billion dollars? I just who'd you sell it to? I sold it to a company called Valiant Canadian Company.

I was going to say that's very familiar. And if you follow this industry, they like had their own turmoil not long after they bought us. Like at the time they bought us, they were a darling on the stock market. I couldn't have picked a better partner. They were going to march it across the globe. They were going to make it affordable. We were 35 people when we crossed this finish line and I loved my team. Like they set

out to change the conversation about women in sex. But when we got it approved, this is a drug for the world. This is a drug for the masses. And so three companies came, come, come, came calling. They emerged the winner, importantly, because they were going to keep me and my team. And I know it always comes down to people, right? passion and the drive for what we'd set out to do. And unfortunately, their business went sideways. And in three months, my entire team was gone. And they put it on the shelf. And I

was devastated. I mean, can you imagine we fought that hard, we went that long to finally get one for women, and then they couldn't get it. I mean, I went to the pharmacy to get it, and I was told I couldn't get it. Are you kidding me? So I fought them. I first asked them to give it back.

I think they left in that conversation. So they paid you a $1,000,000 billion. So they had already paid it. Is it Canadian money though? No, it's a 30% Okay, US. US cows. People say it wasn't stock cash.

So they paid me the money. And you know, look, as a founder, you kind of think, well, you know, it's so much my baby, it's so much part of me. You kind of have to sit on the sidelines. But when they got rid of me and all of my team, I knew nobody was gonna champion it, I couldn't get it even though I wanted it. And so ultimately, I will tell you

from company number one to company number two, you get smarter along the way, I wrote a better contract. And when you write contracts, you know, often you get money up front and then you participate in royalties or my stone milestones downstream. And so the first time I sold a business, I had these continuation of money,

but it was based on a best efforts clause. What was that? It was just a class out of way. It was called slate, and it had a testosterone product for men. It was still in the same, in the same setting. Yeah, I've been a sexual medicine for years. Forever. And you got like half a million for us.

Yeah, half a million for that. Yeah, a half a billion for that. Over time, yeah. And so then I got the second, when I sold Sprout as opposed to this like best efforts clause, because my best efforts may be different than their best efforts. I wrote really specific things for them to do. And they weren't incredible, right?

They were how much money they'd spend on education, how many sales people they'd have calling on physicians across the US. And when they did none of them, I sued them. And in exchange for me dropping the lawsuit, they gave it back to me, but I kept $1 billion. So, okay. So now I have it back and we've launched it.

Okay, I first, what do you think of it with all this money? Are you like building houses with all this money? Like it was dollar bills? Well, I wish I kept all of it for myself. Like I hadn't any investors, the shareholders did really well too. But you know what I'm doing is putting my money where my mouth is.

And I started the pink ceiling. And the pink ceiling is about really investing in game changing first for women. And often ideas that I think are catalyst in changing social conversation, because I'm not letting anybody else go through the bullshit that I had to go through. No funding, all of sort of the doubts along the way.

And for me, nothing's more rewarding than helping use female founders. That's amazing. So how big is the fund? So it's my money. It's not a fund. I'm not really, I'm an operator. So I'll tell you, we're so It's not a fund. I'm not really I'm an operator. So I'll tightwere so little differently than a fund. So we find these incredible

disruptors. That's where I'm looking for these really disrupt. That's who I need to win. Right. I need these women doing these incredible things taking big swings who walk into the you know venture capital board rooms and get laughed out of there. I need to help them get there. And so they get access to my business team who built companies with me and me, and we really sort of ride alongside of them and help them get to finish line.

So there's no amount, whatever the idea needs, you'll help. And we really take really early bets on them. And so it depends on the stage of the business. We've written multi-million dollar checks, and we've written $50,000 checks in a big range based on the business need. But I think the importance is that we really,

I'm a built to sell kind of girl. I want to see women get to big outcomes like me. When I sold a business for a billion dollars, that should not be a lonely club. We should have a lot of people believing that women have the next billion dollar idea. And I think even inside my group, this woman that's invented the first ever flushable pregnancy test, it's 100% biodegradable. Wow, great idea.

It's totally like, you know, the conversation about discretion, she's dynamite, and she'll completely disrupt the industry, and somebody inevitably will buy her. How did you find her? How did she find you? She jumped in an Uber with me in DC for real. Yes, just like just no she didn't do. She jumped into pitch me. We were in an Uber pitch thing and she was like you. You because you know you've done it with an FDA approved you you are a champion of these like scientific sort of breakthroughs. And so I'm very fortunate I find these like incredible. I, they're often geeky scientists or engineers who find their way to my, to my door, but they're awesome.

So when it, okay, so she didn't just like find you on the street and jump into your goober. It was, it was actually a pitch in in in it. It was Uber like the sponsor. Yeah, yeah, whatever. Okay, and then when was that? Like a couple of um that was probably I bet that was I have to think about this 2017. Oh okay. So we're we're three years in. She's gotten through the FDA. It's ready to go to market. So when does it go to market? We're working on that right now. So this fall. Wow. So how fall. Wow. So how involved are you in these people's businesses?

Are you like, because a lot of times people are like, yeah, they write you in check and they don't help you. Exactly. Or they're very like, they're very separate. Like they're like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. A couple calls on your business classical. Yeah.

So I think really sort of traditional fund. Yeah. You know, there only going to be as good as what you ask them. And to do them not saying that they don't want to help you succeed. But like if you say, will you please introduce me to so and so and here's the email I'd like for you to send. They're likely to do that. We're like sleeves rolled up all in.

We're really venture builders. I mean, I go to the meetings with them. I help them often find manufacturers. I often, you know, I write big checks, but I also give them access to all the people who wrote checks to me to bet on me through the years. And I say, hey, this is an idea I'm really excited about. I think you will be too.

So I often help them get more money, even outside of me. So it's really fun. How much did it take for you to get atty off the ground? Again, I know you had a lot of, you had different investors, but yeah. How much did it cost?

$100 million. $100 million. Well, so you made a 900 million. That's a rid win. I actually didn't spend 50 million of it, so I gave it back. So I only spent 50 million of that over the course of the time. And what is it, what does it go towards?

Like the clinical trials? Yeah, that was the most expensive part. So expensive. Every time, and you can imagine, as I went through this process, and it was like, I'd done all the work, I'd met all the endpoints, and I'd get a no. And it would be like the company was over, and I'd have to go raise another $10 million

to do a single study. And everybody's going like, my odds are diminishing, right? Every time I get a door slammed in my face, and I'm still having to go out and get money to keep going. So it was a character building experience. You know it's funny though, it's not even funny, it's actually quite sad that to get through these clinical trials and the FDA is so much harder than anyone can ever imagine so hard. I have a friend who created something that was extraordinary and it works. And spent again with investors and everything else, and it's public, $150 million.

And then the clinical trial, one clinical trial didn't work to his advantage and the whole thing is gone. Yeah. No, it's unbelievable. You're taking, it speaks a lot, I think, to my personality, taking like major swings and impossible odds,

because your odds there are really impossible. And that's what we do at the Pink Sealing too, is take big swings at these game changers that have really, you know, difficult paths ahead. No, that's why you're just incredible, because that's very hard task to achieve. And then, and then what happens? Now you lost $100 million.

What do you do then? That's right. What happens? I know. Yeah, you spent years of your life on this thing. I got to tell you a story on that because the outcome was totally binary. We were going to win big or massively lose. And the last moment as I've gone through this crazy

struggle and you know, keep coming back, keep coming back with the FDA, is they held this big scientific meeting and they invited in all of these medical experts to basically review our data and get to ask us questions. And the night before we went there, and this was like our biggest moment ever, it was going to seal, they were going to decide at the end of that day what their recommendation was, I threw a victory party. And I know the chairman of my board was like you're doing what? Like should everybody be in bed early? Shouldn't you be? And I said you know what, at this point, like we have left it all in the field. Like we've done everything that we can possibly do, tomorrow is out of our hands, like we know this. And so I think

we walked into the room as champions and we walked out champions. That was a great dinner. So great. Wait, where'd you park the car? Oh, the one I just sold to Carvana. What? When did you do that? When you were still looking at the menu, I went on Carvana.com and all I had to do was under license plate or vinn, answer a few questions and got a real offer in seconds. They picked up the car already? No, I parked around the corner. But they are picking it up tomorrow and paying me right on the spot. Oh no,. They picked up the car already? No, I parked around the corner. But they are picking it up tomorrow and paying me right on the spot. Oh, no wonder you picked up the check.

Yeah, about that. Don't forget to go and have these. Sell your car to Carvana. Visit Carvana.com or download the app to get a real offer in seconds. Breathe in, breathe out. Get dressed, head out, grab some friends, camp out. Get hacked up, buy back. Take your Dean, let it all out. That RRI co-op, we're here for all the outs.

We want you to spend more time outside our doors and in there. Try it out, check out, think it out. RRI co-op, all out. Visit it out. Are we at koa? All at visit are you i dot com. This is so you're so inspiring. No, really, it's amazing. And then, okay, so give me some other companies that you're working under. Yeah, it's called pink ceiling. At called the pink you better.

And you were everything you was pink. You sure pink. You sure it's pink last night. I saw either way, another pink outfit. That's right. Is it that you just love pink? I do. You're wearing everything you've spent. You're shooting pink. You've shot pink last time. I'm sorry to wake another pink up when. That's right. Is it that you just love pink? I do love pink, but pink for me, as in so many ways, it was this shift from underestimated to unapologetic.

Oh, I love that. The pink was, you know, we have certain things we assigned to pink weakness, whatever. I see it totally differently. I see your femininity as a huge strength, even in the boardroom. So I fully embraced it, and would show up at the FDA and blazing hot pink and waiting from the audience, because that's what we're going to talk about that day. In the pink invader, because of course, we don't need any more incubators with like bros and hoodies and craft beer on top. So we have a beautiful pink office with rosé

on top. Do you? We do. yeah. It's back in, really. Yeah, it's so fun. Oh, that's so great. So great. And I have such a great, and you can imagine, a very colorful team. I can imagine. But we have Leah Diagnostics, which is flushable pregnancy test.

I have a technology that, if I dip my finger in this water, and I touch this disc, it would tell me in 30 seconds if there was a date rape drug in that drink. I have not any such knowledge. That's amazing. Like when I found this, and actually it's so fine because when I found this and it was invented actually in Raleigh, by some students at NC State,

and I thought they were sort of getting, people were being tough on them. They were saying, well, why should a woman have to do that? I'm like, let's be real. Like, I have nieces in college right now. This is happening and this is a solution to that. So I love technologies like that that even push people outside of their comfort zone. Yeah, sometimes I think even unconscious, you know, bias in these circumstances. That's a great idea. I'm cool. Thanks to these things. I know, right? And I would say sometimes only a woman would think about a flexible pregnancy test, only a woman would think about it

who's had to go into the bathroom and test at work and doesn't want to leave it in there. Absolutely. And you put it in your personal. Yeah. And if I'm going to reach like, it's not a lot so good. So true.

So I have a great young engineer at a Texas. She runs a company called Intuitap, Jessica Traver, and she has what I call a stud finder for the spine. I'm truly oversimplifying it, but it's going to change spinal taps, which are very commonplace in emergency rooms. And what we do is we feel around, and we go, OK, we put a needle in.

I'm being a little cute about it, but not much different that that's the state of the art. And 60% of the time, they get it wrong. Which, by the way, means it gets referred to radiology, which is a huge cost and the health care system. And she basically has created something that through heat mapping, it finds exactly where it should go, it advances the needle in.

She's going to revolutionize this and like a massive company will buy her. And what I love about these ideas and part of the reason I picked them, it's not that we couldn't go the distance and bring it to market and that's really fun. But I think they're massive ideas that big companies can come in and take. And when those women get to those exits, we start to think differently about who has the next idea, which I said, and I know that when I walked into the room to pitch, coming out with the first-ever drug for women's sexual pleasure, I was typically laughed out of the room.

And what I love to do now, as I love to call some of those guys and say, I just give you a billion reasons why you better look at this. And so, you know what? It's great is people are like, I hope you never let them in any of your deals. I'm like, no, I absolutely let them in my deals because that's how you change things. That's an incredible, go back to that thing that you're saying about that technology that you can see if there's a date rate drug in the... Yeah.

So, how does it work? It's on your phone or how does it? It's a little disc. It's like a little plastic disc that you can stick on the back of your phone, on a keychain. Oh wow. You just have it discreetly on you.

And you put it on top of the glass? Nope. You actually, you really do dip your finger and touch like just a, it only requires like a droplet of water. And in 30 seconds, it runs the test. Wow. I mean, for college use right now, I think that's so amazing.

These are amazing. I would like to see, honestly, like I'd like to see an alcohol company start to give it out with their drinks. Because that's a good idea. Alcohol's a social lubricant. Sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. And like being able to be in front of that and saying like, hey, we're part of this solution.

And interestingly, even on college campuses, fraternities are really positive about this because they want to make sure it's given out of the party. Everyone is safe. It's really like a sign of, you know, none of us here tolerate that. These are brilliant ideas. I mean, so if a guy came to the Pink Seamley, would you take his idea? If it's for women, 100%. So it doesn't matter who actually thought of the idea. That's right. a hundred percent? So it doesn't matter who actually thought of the idea That's right, but it has to be the applied technology for date rape was was invented by a guy. Oh four guys students

Amazing. Yeah, these are they've actually a great ideas. How many other ones do have? My god, I could go on for days So we have about 12 under the pink ceiling umbrella right now and we're pretty selective because we're going to go the distance with them. But we're always hunting. I have a great new and we got to talk about, I won't talk too much about it, give it away, but a new breast cancer technology that I'm really excited about. We do. Okay, we'd have to definitely talk about offline. Bless you over there. So wow. Okay, so then where do you, okay, so what do you, how do you have time? We always like this. Like, how did you see? Yeah. Years back. Okay, so you've been doing this for

how long? When did this whole thing start? I have been, I started my first business in 2005. You know, do you have a background in science or love it? Business? So study business, but fell in love with the science in this industry. Just love the change you can make in people's lives. Don't necessarily love how the industry got it done, which is why I started. My first company was called Slate, which was entirely like Clean Slate. I'm doing this on my own terms. I love these great innovations that, these kind of great innovations that help the population and we can do it differently

than Big Pharma. So before you did the first company that you sold for half a billion. Was that your first company? It was. So what did you do for the first scratch? Through the industry. Like, you know, worked my way up, I started in sales.

Where did you go to college? I wouldn't think about you. I went to Marymount outside of DC. OK. Good Catholic school. And it's funny. As part of the reason I went there is I had a really unusual childhood.

I moved every year from the fourth grade through my senior year of high school. Oh. And I ended up my senior year of high school in DC. And my single criteria for college is I am not leaving this area like I refuse to move again. Right. That was so much. Right. And I I know like looking back that was such a great preparation for what I would end up doing professionally all of those moves and really

you know having to be comfortable being uncomfortable. Right. And you have to be. Yeah for sure. I mean to make friends every single year with different people I get you have to navigate. Right. And you have to be, I got all this wonderful, like, different perspective, because I moved not only, you know, from city to city, but country to country, or the course that times, I got these incredible experiences. We were good student. Yeah, you were a good student. Okay, I think I'm I'm pretty competitive. So you always very, that was to spit your nature, right? I am competitive. Yeah, two big brothers who probably instilled that in me, right?

We always like we're always competing with each other in some kind of ridiculous. It might be a board game or whatever it is, but they were good. They definitely did not get the memo that they were supposed to protect their little sister. Their version of that is we're gonna like toughen you out for the world. Yeah. I think God they did. Well, yeah, it worked. Yeah, do they work for you now? Yeah, one of them does. Okay, yeah, one of them does.

One of them was on my board. And you know what's so funny is when I started this and I had to go out and raise money. And I thought, you know, I certainly had like a professional track record at that point. But I didn't have a rola deck. I didn't have a rich uncle. Right. I didn't have a rola deck. If anybody's going to write me a check. So you better believe I went to my two big brothers and I was like, you have to hand-shut.

They actually helped me. And you know what's funny is like they had little kids at the time. I need to send them to my kids are older now. They don't really have a ton of money sitting around to do that, but God bless them. They wrote me a check and now I like to say, aren't you glad I'm your little sister? They were. They're the ones who actually helped us. Yes, because this was like what you said 15 years ago. Yeah. And you're not, you look pretty young to me. So this was, you must have been pretty young when you started all of this. Thank you. Yeah. Young, yes. I mean, you know, in the history for a while, but, um, yeah. Wow. Young to, young to certainly didn't look like the classical

pharmacy, EO. I love it when people introduce and they'll say, you know, our next guest sold their last business for a billion dollars and they pharmacy people going, and I come walk it in and change and people are like, who's that? Like we didn't see the woman in pink outfit right?

Exactly, in the pink tracks through the walk. And that's good, I love it. I mean, and so how much did they give you initially to start this whole? You know, I should know the exact check size. It was less than five digits. I mean, it was just stuff to kind of get me started, but them betting on me and me being,

and I stalked people, I will say, like in the most professional way, like I had to figure out, like, who am I gonna target? Who could write me a check? And, you know, how do I get in a room with them? And when I got to figure out, like, who am I going to target? Who could write me a check? And, you know, how do I get in a room with them? And when I got in the room with them, I would say, hey, will you introduce me to three of your friends? And, hey, will you introduce me to four of your friends? And, and it's incredible when you look at just my investor group, like, I have an entire group of investors in Fort Worth, Texas. If I'm ever feeling down, I go to Fort Worth, Texas,

because they're the most incredible group, but it really grew because one person told three people who told, and that's how you've got to do it as an entrepreneur who doesn't have the privilege of the money already and really money to do it, or you maybe didn't go to B School, I didn't go to Harvard Business School or anything else, you don't have that network,

gotta make your own network. And that's really part, it school or anything else, you know, that network, gotta make your own network. And that's really part, it's at the time I think when I was having those doors slammed in my face or as being laughed out of the office, you know, what feels like your curse really becomes your blessing because all of these investors who came and bet on me hung with me. And I think if I had gotten a very classical VC check

up front, a big check, they would have run screaming the first time we hit a road bump So yeah, I mean I also think that what you said is Spot on like everyone should be a conduit to someone else You don't leave one meeting without getting another name or two names first. I have always said that and I'm glad to hear that You also feel the same way sure what would you say your most? What's that one one if you could pick one quality about you besides doing that kind of thing that really kind of made you successful like this,

to this level, tenacity, tenacity. I just keep showing up. And I think that, you know, I've had a lot of critics, I've had a lot of people tell me I can't do it. And actually I've listened to them as much as I've listened to anybody else. So it's like you take it at face value and you just keep showing up. I think if that affects you in any way, you're not going to be able to push through. Yeah.

And how long will you marry to your first husband you said? We were together for 10 years and separated for part of that. But we were in a company together. So we had to manage that dynamic. So there was no time to ever actually think it's incredible. So we met working together. I would tell you that we sort of mistook professional chemistry as personal chemistry.

We were really good working together. We were terrible in a personal relationship. And I think once both of us realize that, we sort of kept the good and lost the rest, and we're able to compartmentalize it. And you know, life is too short to be mad at your excess. Right, I mean, well, I also find it interesting. I would be curious, because now you said you were engaged.

Yeah, it's been difficult to find. Oh my God, because yeah, like, because can you just imagine the work that I do? I have told this story before of it, I am telling you. So when I used to like get on an airplane and if there was a nice guy like chat me up next to me, it would always inevitably go to what do you do?

And I would do this like, I'm in health care. Right? And eventually it would come out like a female Viagra and they would say female Viagra, I'm female Viagra. Oh god. And I would, and I finally was like, okay, what's my response going to be? And I finally said, hey man, if I had a nickel for every guy that told me that, I'm going to have to sell the company for a billion dollars. And then all of a sudden they stopped talking to me. But you know, I'm so lucky that I found this great, great guy because I think it was

complicated in the field that I was in it. truthfully, I was so head down doing the work that I was really focused on that more than I was on dating. And that's not necessarily good advice for anybody else. No, you should have this balance in your life. It's hard. Listen, I think it's very unrealistic when people say that you could have it all. Oh, you can't. It's bullshit. Sure. You can even have it all all. Oh, you can't. It's bullshit.

Sure. You can even have it all at different times if you're like, life, that's right. But you know, you're going to be sacrificing something at every moment. Yes, absolutely. Depending on what's taking priority. And I think that that's a genuine comment to say,

like to be where you are or to get to where you are. It takes a lot of tenacity and a lot of hard work and grind. It's like you just have to grind. I mean that's what it is. People think it's sexy. It's actually not that sexy, right? You're going to like grind and so the guy, your fiance, what does he do? He works with me. Oh, there you go. I mean, not entirely, not in the beginning, but I think maybe to know me or to love me is to work with me because that's what I love to do. And it's certainly the people I'm connected with who have big ideas. So he was an entrepreneur, he built his own business and tack, he sold it. And you know, he uses an entirely different part of his brain than I do.

And he's such an incredible asset to me. So he gets to run in his whole own lane. I have no idea happening. See what he's doing. So he works with me on that. Because he's been through the wars, right? Like he has gone and built it from scratch himself. And he understands, for the digital space,

so much better than I do. And he's really great for our founders. Oh, that's amazing. Let's give a character in a half. I would imagine. Yeah. You wouldn't be with anything besides that. He actually, he's a brilliant artist

and just, he would save every animal in the world. We have pigs, we have chickens, we have rescue dogs, and he draws actually like, you know, he does custom shoes. Oh, like custom shoe art, and he draws animals on shoes. It started just as kind of a fun thing. And it has exploded and I tease him all the time

on Instagram like, oh my God, your side hustles becoming like the full time. You're on exactly. That's right. Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that.

Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that. Maybe you should invest in that. So okay, so I've been like you're probably like getting super hot and sweaty on this treadmill I'm like wondering why you're not sweating and I'm sweating so much. This is like this is like child's play for me I'm at 1.7. I'm used to it. I'm gonna be on the scene for the first five hours today Okay, my no respect. I'm exolid. I'm exolid. I get exhausted by the third person after four hours of this Let me tell you incredible

So what are your daily? It's's fun actually, because it's like, at least I'm moving. I rather move. Yeah. And versus sit, sit, sit, and carry for sure. And just like talk to people like, where are you going? Like, I'd rather be like doing this.

And also it's great for your brain. It's better for your cognitive function. Oh, and if I had an important phone call, like I stand up, like you absolutely, I'm much more of like the pace or around the office talking. For sure. When you're moving. Okay, so now I've lost my train of thought

with you my dear, but I was gonna. What were my habits? Yeah, what are your habits? Daily. Well, I actually stand up when I'm on calls, right? That's one. I have a habit, I don't know that it's a good one, which is I fly all the time, so I'm on the road

most of my life, I say live on an airplane. So I typically feel like I've wasted time if I don't show up in their calling my name. Yeah, I don't recommend that for other people who don't like to live on the edge. But you know, habits are what time do you wake up in the morning? Let's start with that. Seven. Seven. With or without an alarm clock, seven. Do you drink coffee? No. Never did, which I got to tell you. I promise you is just because I'm so stubborn. And my big brother's bet me that I would start drinking coffee in college.

I said how much. And I think they named like a decent dollar amount. So I never drink coffee. Really? Yeah, just for them to pay. Right, just for you. I know. But I will tell you that.

I drink iced tea by the gallon. You do. Oh yeah. So that's your drink iced tea by the gallon. You do? Oh yeah. So that's your thing. That's my thing. That's my thing. I think you came in with a nice tea. I did.

No, yeah. It's like my binky. Did I? Did you wake up? What's the first thing that you, what do you eat for breakfast? What do you like to eat? What do you want to eat? I typically don't eat till lunch.

Are you doing intermittent fasting? Man, I just think now somebody has given it a name and I feel very virtueous. I really just don't ever have anything in my house. So I don't eat breakfast, but we eat together every day as a company. So when I'm in the office, we all get together around this ginormous glass table. And as the company has grown, the table just gets,

it looks like the last supper at this point, it's massive. But it's really been such an important tradition to me. I thought when I started my first business, like no death by meeting, I can't do it. I want us to all be on the same page, so we're gonna get together and eat lunch together every day. So we do all, we were talking about the business,

but we're also solving reality television struggles for the life of 42. I love that. Which is great. So, new new have lunch usually when you're with them. Yeah. And so, now they call it intermittent

but you've always done that your whole life. Kind of. Or you're definitely my whole life. But yeah, I've never been a huge breakfast eater. I'm much more of a lunch. Yeah. And do you like, is there anything particular that you eat every day or doesn't matter?

You're not really. I wish, but I'm on the road. So, I think the one constant is iced tea always in the end. Just iced tea. But not necessarily, you know, sometimes it's dinners out and not. I wish I was better about my food. I think traveling makes it more complicated. Right. So it's a far away for me to, you know, like it's so. Yeah, for sure. I mean, habits are, look, I have animals that I love. I have pigs in the backyard. I call our house pink acres, because it's so funny, and it's really very urban.

Pigs in the house? No, outside, so they don't really like to come in, but theodore and Tulu La live outside. You mean, you know, you gotta go out and like, pick up the pig poop. And I think that's a good thing. I have a sign in my office that say cowgirl's scrapeship from your boots before entering. And I think a lot of that is like,

you gotta do the hard work. I think that's great. So that's a part of the ritual, like wake up animals are like a big part of the first part of my day. And I have a crazy little rescue dog who has more Instagram followers than I do, and a lickity who is just a doll.

And that's the happy place, including, I know a lot of people would say it's a terrible habit to wake up and immediately get on your phone. I reject that. I immediately get on my phone, and it's not, I get on the phone to read the news. I actually get on the phone for the daily reminder of how lucky I am to be surrounded by these people in my life.

Right, because I start going through all of the pictures and everything else. I feel like I'm so fortunate and I've got such incredible women that I get to meet and watching the pass that they're on just makes me happy as I start the day. That's nice. Do you work out in the morning or do workout at all? I do. I do. I do. I would love to be a morning workout person. I am an evening workout person.

But you work out. I do. What kind of stuff do you do? Bar is my favorite. Bar. Yeah. All right, so those are good habits. Okay, we obviously know you have the hustle.

We have that down. You have been amazing. You have so inspirational. Not just for women, but for anybody. The fact that you were able to grow and build and execute on this thing that helps so many women. Do you know how many women are actually using your, I guess, added right now? Yeah, I don't know that I could quote you the exact number, but is it in the millions?

Or is it in a... We're probably not quite to the millions yet. But we just launched it, it really with advertising this year. So probably most of the people listening won't have ever heard of it yet. So radio ads turned on about six weeks ago and I got to tell you I like sat in my car and cried like a baby when it went on Howard Stern because it has been 10 years to get to that moment. This is amazing. So, gradually. So next time I see you, you're going to be like actually, you know, now we're at 10 million before using it.

Yeah, no doubt. Yeah. Because I think awareness isn't there yet. So we're just starting. Yeah. That's what you need versus the awareness. But I think in the education and, I mean, like you said, there are so many women that people think you never even think about this being an actual real issue until a great, or, you

know, just something that is that you could possibly address absolutely. Sydney you're amazing. Have a people find you and Addy and everything else. So you can find Addy at Addy.com I'll tell you it spelled like all drugs are spelled a weird way. Addy.com so add your interest. Addy.com find me at at Cindy Pink CEO. I'd love for you guys to follow me. Yeah and if you have a great idea that's catered to ladies. at pinkcealing.com. Pinkcealing.com.

Thank you so much. You've been great. Thank you. Bye, guys. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I'm Heather Monahan, host of Creating Confidence, a part of the YAP media network, the number one business and self-improvement podcast network. Okay, so I want to tell you a little bit about my show. We are all about elevating your confidence to its highest level ever and taking your business right there with you. Don't believe me? I'm going to go ahead and share some of the

reviews of the show so you can believe my listeners. I have been a long time fan of Heather's no matter what phase of life I find myself in. Heather seems to always have the perfect gems of wisdom that not only inspire but motivate me into action. Her experience and personality are unmatched and I love her go getter attitude. This show has become a staple in my life. I recommend it to anyone looking to elevate their confidence and reach that next level. Thank you! I recently got to hear Heather at a live podcast taping

with her and Tracy Hayes, and I immediately subscribe to this podcast. It has not disappointed, and I cannot wait to listen to as many as I can, as quick as I can. Thank you, Heather, for helping us build confidence and bring so much value to the space. If you are looking to up your confidence level, click creating confidence now.