Habits and Hustle - Episode 65: Gus Wenner – President & COO of Rolling Stone

Episode Date: May 26, 2020

Gus Wenner is the President & COO of Rolling Stone. How does a brand that is known predominately as a magazine not only maintain but thrive in our digital age where traditional media feels on the way out? Gus and Jen discuss favorite podcasts, musicians, his own foray into the industry as a performer, and how his innovation and desire to embrace what’s new excelled Rolling Stone ahead of the failed media brand giants of the past and into the present as a multimedia powerhouse capable of “making” any artist they feature. Want to hear what it takes to bring a dying industry online and back to life? Or maybe you just want to know who the President of Rolling Stone’s favorite musician could possibly be. Either way, don’t miss out on this iconic touchstone in music’s history and future. Youtube Link to this Episode Gus’ Instagram ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to the Habits and Hustle Podcast. A podcast that uncovers the rituals, unspoken habits, and mindsets of extraordinary people. A podcast powered by Habit Nest. Now here's your host, Jennifer Cohen. What podcast do you listen to? If you do listen to podcasts. Um, well, I was a big fan of cereal.

I know, everyone loves that one. I was listening, most recently I've been listening to this podcast about the DC sniper monster. Mm-hmm. It's quite freaky. Oh wow. Is it remember that? I don't, but I know that the crime area is so popular. I feel like it's just Like that space of the podcasting world is yeah, he was a It was like right after 9-11 in 2002. And there was a sniper who was killing people at Randall or two of them, they were killing people at Randam, across the DC area.

Oh, wow. Very freaky. But my favorite podcast, and then I like how I built this and I like that one. Yeah, so it's in your vein. And I wrote actually to the host, Guy Ross, and I said, you should do him with my dad. And he did, he did.

And people always come up to me, because they talk about how it came together and that I had written him and all this stuff. And people always talk about that. But my dad had no clue what it was and literally could have cared less and moved it. In my opinion, the worst interview ever.

He was seeing him again. But people seem to love it. But my favorite podcast without a doubt is Estown. If you've ever seen it. No, but then again, you're 30 years old, right? 29. 29, excuse me. I don't want to age you.

So you're like, you're, like, is that what people, what the kids are listening to right now? Like that type of thing. I feel like most people your age are listening to, like, Caller Daddy or, we're not Caller Daddy, but that's a lot of, yeah. It's a very grow one. That's bro.

That's very bro. But you don't really see him like a bro. The kids are on TikTok. The kids are all on TikTok. TikTok's where it's at. I was saying yesterday that I feel like, you know how a Facebook, when all the old people like me, went on, well, not me, like my mom,

we like people went to Instagram, you know. Now I feel like all the old people are on Instagram on, well, not me, like my mom, we like people went to Instagram, you know. Now I feel like all the old people are on Instagram and now everyone's moving over to the top. You know, we're on Facebook and then- Yeah, now it's not cool anymore. Like when the old people start going to that platform, nobody wants like the youngsters like you or even younger than you go onto a different platform.

Yeah, I mean, it's funny though, you saw that with Snapchat and then Instagram's kind of like adopted Snapchat's technology. And then I think Snapchat became a little less relevant than it had been prior to Instagram putting stories on. So I mean, it all comes and goes and I think summer here for the long haul. I think that TikTok is like uniquely fascinating. And if the goal is, if the concept is that in today's world, we're all on our phone so

much, and then like your phone can provide you more entertainment and capture more sort of market share of your day than anything else the way that television once did. I really don't and we'll see but I don't think there's like a better more suited medium and platform for that than TikTok. Just it's like so short and it's so energetic and like it's sort of this meritocracy. I don't know that much about it but it's like a meritocracy where it's like not about how many followers It's about how much your video gets viewed quickly. It's like it's an amazing platform. I'm deeply into TikTok No, I'm not on it myself, but I mean, I look at it, but I'm not like creating TikToks myself. I know. No, no I know but you should because it wasn't it was called musically Remember when I was called musically and now it's this but besides doing these like songs and dances on it

What else can people really do on it, right? doing these like songs and dances on it, what else can people really do on it, right? Not much. The songs and yeah, okay, fine. So maybe it's a little vapid because you, you know, could you change the world on TikTok? I think you can use it as an entree to do so, but to your point, it's these very short videos and how much can you really say. But there is more than the dance.

There's like funny videos and sports things and politics and there's stuff, but yeah, the dancing, weirdly when I was in LA was with, I was over at a friend of mine's house and there was like a TikTok superstar there and she was telling me, oh my God, there's TikTok superstars. Really? Who's like one TikTok superstar? You met. I don't know. This girl's name was Alyssa,

but she's got like something like 14 million TikTok followers or something. Wow. Well, okay, go ahead. You bet this girl on, you said you're gonna lay. There's no more to say. I was just saying that I was, she was breaking down to me like,

how she puts her TikTokic-tocs together and it was all very fascinating. How would she say I'm curious? She was showing me like the dance and essentially like you find something that's kind of catching steam and then you recreate it and then you sort of put it side by side next to the original but you have to have some sort of interesting hook. Like she would do something where she'd be doing it, but then something would happen

and then they would disappear and more people would come. And it's an interest, it's like a little miniature story. Yeah, no, I think, and I think also it wouldn't even see what it's gonna be capable of, right? Like it's gonna obviously roll out and be, there's gonna be lots of other morphes of it, and this is just the beginning.

By the way, I should say, I was like, we went right into it. This is Gus, he runs Rolling Stone magazine and the media, right? That's basically what you do. You took over for your father four years ago? Three years ago. Something like that.

I mean, there was my dad founded it in 1967 and over the course of 50 years, built it into what it became and had all sorts of peaks and valleys along the way, but did something really special. Like beyond the answer, change the world and it was a cultural like of all the, of all like publications. That was like, not only was that hip and cool, it was was a cultural, of all the medications, that was not really that hip and cool. It was a cultural statement in a way. If you were on the cover of Rolling Stone, it was the biggest thing in the world. It was like time magazine. Bigger than time magazine in some was that. Do you remember, because you're young, right?

When you were like, I guess you saw it with your father, right? But did you realize what an impacted had in pop culture? Definitely, I think at a young age, it was clear to me that it was very important, right? In the middle of pop culture, I think the covers of course, but really more the journalism. Yeah, the journalism is amazing. Yeah, and like you you see stories come out like Michael Hastings story on on general Macrystal and then a week later Obama is up there talking about the story and then Macrystal gets let go from

his post because of that report. So it's like, I was able to see how how critical this work was. And I think the way that both my both my parents lived their life and everything they created for themselves was always about that journalism and the music. And their political beliefs and wanting to see a more progressive society and how music could be a vehicle to achieve that. And that, for that reason, it resonated a ton. And all the things that were around me made sense and felt kind of so full and not like, well, that's cool or that's interesting, but like way more than that. Like, I understand, I mean, this is what I was working towards,

but like I understand why this is important and why my dad had dedicated his life to it. But to answer your original question, when I graduated from school in 2012 from college, I started working for the Chief Digital Officer at the time. And it was a company called Winner Media, which owned us weekly and another magazine called Men's Journal as well as Rolling Soon. And really was tasked with building the website. And then eventually I took over the role of Chief Judith of the Lofs, and the guy that was working for went to work at Apple, and he was a really brilliant

individual himself and taught me a lot. But, and then there just came a moment where, obviously, with the internet coming along and the print industry, kind of decline, we had to make really what I saw as drastic and aggressive moves in order to build around and grow our most powerful asset with the most potential in Rolling Stone. So that's when I really kind of stepped into the leadership role and led the sale of us, led the sale of men's journal, and then ultimately the sale of Rolling Stone, which we sold to a company called PMC. And now I run Rolling Stone, but that's been an

unbelievable situation for us because it's taken us out of a mode of figuring out how to, we had a lot of corporate debt, figuring out how to get it down all that corporate debt and deal with it. And now have the resources and infrastructure to really grow and capture this enormous opportunity around an iconic brand that's recognized around the globe, like not just in America, but around the world.

So I feel very fortunate to be in this position and it's an amazing opportunity and I love doing it. If you love the Habits and Hustle Podcasts and are looking to add more podcasts to your weekly routine, I have the podcasts for you. I know you're gonna love the Millionaire University podcast because they dive deep into how to actually run a successful business. So you can escalate from just breaking even to making your business and profits thrive. Or how they like to say it, learn how to graduate from millionaire university rich, not broke. And this is because you don't need to go into debt spending four plus years on a degree to succeed when you have all the information

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I mean, it looks to me from the outside, you've done a good job because I saw with numbers, like you've really built out the digital portion, which is where everyone's going. And the visitors you get monthly, it's kind of, like you said, everything has an ebb and a flow in peak and valleys. I feel like it's really having a moment again,

where it's really on the rise, right? Because you are taking advantage of, you have your finger on the pulse or just speak of what's kind of relevant and current, and you're kind of creating that again with your brand. Yeah, I mean, I appreciate that. That's that's the goal. I mean, our biggest, the thing that we think about most every day across everything we do this incredible history, this emotional connection that people have had

with Rolling Stone for so long, we've read it for so long, but leverage that in a way where we're really taking risks and evolving and trying new things. And I think if you look at the last 18 to 24 months, we've been very aggressive, like pushing forward. I wish I could talk about our next cover. Well, the current cover, I don't know if you've seen it.

Is Lizzo shopped by David Lashapel and it's astounding. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Yeah. And then the story's amazing written by one of our writers's stunning. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. It's like, and then the story's amazing. Written by one of our writers, Brittany Spanos, who's young and super talented. But we have so many projects going on across the board where we're making a four part or three part

docuseries on showtime about the rise and fall of Takashi 69. I saw that. What is, can you explain, like, so you oversee content then as well, like, you kind of, you have your finger in that as well, right? It's not just the, like, like, my question is, are you involved in the minutiae of saying, okay, this is what I want to do. Let's make this happen.

Like, yeah, I mean, I'm responsible for everything we do on the creative side and on the business side. But a lot of times people say that, like, I'll just figure, you know, like, but then, and then you get, like, you get the, like, okay, the final okay. But are you one of those, um, are you one of those leaders, I guess, where you are constantly wanting to pick the different content to make? Did you say, yes, I want to have Liz, I want to do this. Or how does it work in your structure?

It's a collaborative process. My goal is to have really talented people on our team and let them spread their wings. Do you think about being a really collaborative resource for them? But how do you lead is my question. What's your leadership style? Well, I think it depends on the day, but ultimately, look, I think people, people,

like passion resonates with people. And I could not feel more strongly about a, this opportunity we have from a business perspective, and this opportunity we have from a business perspective and this opportunity we have from a sort of cultural impact perspective. I also feel that the world needs rolling sound. Like if we're at our best, we are making the world a better place. And whether that's for people who just love music, or movies, and television, and art, or the political landscape. I think that there have been times where we haven't been at our best and aren't like,

not to sound corny, but like changing the world. But that's the goal, and that's our opportunity. So we've had a lot of change. We've gone through a major transition. We're making a lot of progress, but we need to strive to be making the world a better place through our storytelling, through our journalism, through the video we create, through the stories we tell, the photographs that we take. And I think we're on our way to getting to that place in a very modern way.

Is it difficult to what I did? But I didn't really answer your question. I guess I did it. But the point is that I think, how would this, how would it give me a couple qualities that you have that you think make you a really good leader. Well, I'm not just going to claim that I am, but I'm going to say, like, well, you're running a big media conglomerate, right? Like you're overseeing it, you're taking over for your

dad. I guess my question's twofold, you know, my first part of the question really, what I'm really curious about, like, is it hard to take over for your father who, like, is it difficult day to day? Like, you feel like people, you have to prove yourself even more because of who you're, how you're, when someone like this kind of situation happens and like, you're like the offspring of your father, do you feel like you need to constantly have to like prove yourself and and show that you are your capable and qualified? The question beneath the question.

Okay. But with your first question, I was arriving at a point which is that I think that you were kind of round about. I wanted to. I was I was round about and there was a there was an end. And here's that here's the end. I think people respond to passion and believe. Yeah, I know that you said that.

And I agree with you. Passionate. I really am like like about this thing, not only in my passion, but like I believe we can be something. We're already important and big. I believe we can be massive. And I think that when people look in someone's eye and you actually believe something, whether it's like your own staff or someone that

you're just met for the first time, like, you can tell. It's infectious. It's what you're saying. I totally agree with you. Like, if someone is, if someone actually has that, like, bosteventic, like, passion for something, it is infectious. People feel it and they want to be around it. So that's a great, I think a great quality to have. So you actually have not a genuine passion for it. Yeah. Okay. And then the second part of the question.

Well, the second part of the question, which also relates to the first question is, I haven't, I've always been young for what I'm doing. And yes, dealing with the notion that, you know, the son of the founder, formerly the owner, and that was a bit different than today, where I, you know, my dad is not, you know, it's a different format since we sold it. But I've always believed that the proof is in the pudding. And the results are the results. And when I came on, was the beginning of a really, really difficult time for the media industry, particularly traditional media companies like Kanye Nass,

and Hurst, and ourselves, and whatnot. So it's amazing that you guys actually, and I know that you kind of spearheaded the whole process, which is amazing. So many brands who are also like very, the brand itself had such a huge iconic name and they dissipated, they're gone. You know what I mean? And you're able to your credit not to maintain it but even keep on elevating it. Which is a great, that's a great thing, you know. You don't see that very often. So it never bothered me. It didn't slow me down. Like I'm aware of the dynamics and want to be respectful of the dynamics. But there was too much on the line and there is too much in line and it's too important to have it slow down what we're doing. And if we are putting much on the line and there is too much in line and it's too important to have it

Slow down what we're doing and if we are putting numbers on the board and growing I mean when I came on the the website was like I had like five or six million unique visitors Now we have like 30 million unique visitors were publishing in the 70 stories a day. We have 30 million followers across our social channels and you have the magazine. The audience is big now across a lot of platforms. So results, I think, people respect that. And I wouldn't respect myself or want to feel right doing what I'm doing or probably be given the opportunity to do what I'm doing if the results weren't there. So I've always looked at it through that lens is that the proofs in the pudding.

Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense because like you said, like, that does make a big difference, right? If it was failing, right? And it was plummeting. Yeah. And you're right. Shouldn't be doing this. So exactly. But you must have had quite like when you were young, when your young girl is going to say, what did you always want to get into this business where you ever had to, do you ever have like a different, did you think that you would take a different path? I played music and that, you know,

I think I thought, I just loved like playing guitar and singing and writing songs and, do you still do that? Like I play sometimes, but not a ton. I'm like, the schedule is pretty busy, but I have guitars in my house and we'll mess around and I'm friends with a lot of people that are great players and whatever. Right.

We mess around, but I certainly listen to music constantly. Right. You must be a great library. I bet you have some great things that I would never know of because I just would be exposed to it. You must have a great play like the best playlist ever. Yes, I do have some good playlists. I can imagine what's your favorite type of music? Wow. Who's your favorite artist?

To me, you know, well, the number, my number one is Bob Dylan. I just think as a writer, as a lyricist, as a singer, as a poet, to me, he's the most important creative, American creative person in the last 100 years at least. I think people agree with you. A lot of people would agree with that. Have you got to meet, but I'm sure you met him like a bazillion times. I've met, yes, I've had, I spent some time with him and it was amazing.

That's amazing. Yes. And so, do you, so they've been now the person that you love, like current, current person. Yeah. Well, to, but to that and, and there's so many people from that era that I love, and I would say that Van Morrison to me is one of my favorite Sam Cook, Lee Scratch Perry. I love Ragey and Soul Music and Gospel Music.

I love hip hop. I put No Tours Bay G up there, honestly, in my most upper echelon in terms of lyricists and storytellers, not at Bob Dylan, but maybe like one echelon below. And then in terms of today, there's so much good music that's coming out. I'm a big fan of a girl called Yola who just got nominated for Best Who Are Just The Grammys. And what does she sing? But I know this song. No. She, I watched the Grammy. You might not. She has a record called Walk Through the Fire. Do you like Billy, I should like kind of like a Billy Irish kind of? No, she's kind of like a soul, country singer.

She's from England, but she's recorded in Nashville with Dan Hourback of the Black Keys. There's a guy called Marcus King, who's an incredible guitar player who I really like a lot right now. One of my probably my favorite record of late in the last couple years was a record by a guy called Sturgial Simpson. The record's called the Sailor's Guide to Earth. And that's fantastic.

He's like a country guy, but kind of like on the frit. He does it. He does it like differently. Yeah. kind of like on the fr- He does it differently. He does it like differently, yeah. And then, I don't know, there's so much, I love Chance the Rapper's record coloring book. Is it coloring book? Yeah, coloring book. Yeah, I love Chance the Rapper.

I think Kendrick Lamar's great to Pimpa Butterfly. I was just thinking about that, that's like my favorite album title, to Pimpa Butterfly of like what the, yeah. Amazing. And that whole record. So I don't know that there's so much good music going out. favorite album title to Pimpa Butterfly of like what the amazing. That's a good one. And that whole record.

So I don't know that there's so much good music going out. And yeah, Billie Eilish really talented. Vitamin water just dropped a new zero sugar flavor called with love. Get the taste of raspberry and dark chocolate for the all warm, all fuzzy, all self-care, zero self-doubt you. Grab a with love today. Vitamin water, zero sugar, nourish every you.

Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O. I just feel there's so many people that like the people who are usually the best are people you've just never heard of before. And that's kind of unfortunate. Like you kind of are you in a position kind of like, if you like someone, like you think they're super talented, could you get exposed to so much?

Can you actually can, I would think that you guys can like break an artist, right? Cause you can help promote it on all your channels. Like that's a big, that's big. Like if I have more power than a record label, kind of, right? Cause they need you. We have, we're part of the process. I mean, the two of the people that I named

who are just coming up, Yola and Marcus King, they came to my offices and played, and I was just like stunned. And in fact, and then ended up becoming friends with them and getting to know them better. And like immediately we ran stories on both of them. And actually, with Yolo, like, took a photograph of her that day that we then ran huge as an opening spread in the next issue.

And then I'll line. And yeah, and yeah, I think that that was a helped a lot for her. You know, it was a huge, I think it was probably her biggest exposure to date. But there's so many ways for an artist to break now and Spotify is really important. They have their thing new music Friday that carries a lot of weight. So, it's a different universe now, but we play an important part. And certainly, I mean, we have this event tonight. And I was over with DJ college eastern he was just talking who's

performing at our event with all of his friends but he was saying just talking about the importance of the cover he's like there's he's like there's nothing more important in music than that and I've had a lot of you and I don't know whether people just blow a smoke at my ass or not

probably a little bit but a little but like I mean the at least yourself aware enough to know that people just blow a smoke up my ass or not. Probably a little bit. Probably a little bit. But there's the, I mean, the, At least you know, at least you're self-aware enough to know that people are kind of blowing smoke up your ass once in a while. Well, I think more than once in a while, but I'm trying to be polite. I don't know if you're that well yet. That was the like, well, yeah. I was going to say, like, I wouldn't, but I think it's kind of like you have to have the

self-awareness. You seem to have it that, like, that's kind of like what happened sometimes. Right, but yes, but here think it's kind of like you have to have the self-awareness. You seem to have it that that's kind of like what happened sometimes. Right. But here's the bottom line. You look at the Lizzo cover, right? That image, I don't think you can produce that image and have that level of importance and impact anywhere else. Yeah, I agree.

I agree. So to me, you could blow a smoke at my ass all you want with this subject. But the back to the proof being in the pudding like if you create an iconic image like that that carries the cultural significance of the desk because it's the cover Rolling Stone and people are like whoa and in 20 years from now when Lizzo is like a legend and getting her lifetime achievement worded whatever. And that image lives on. It's not just like one random thing along the way. Like it's a defining moment in her career. So the work is what matters.

Oh, absolutely. Well, do you remember the Britney Spears cover you did? I feel like that was huge for her. You know, like I think when people do profiles on people all the time, they bring up that picture of her, right? Or a lot of people, a lot of artists that I've even had. By the way, it was shot by the same guy. I know, he's amazing. I feel he does, like most of his stuff is pre-iconic. I mean, if you get him to shoot your photos, that's pretty

amazing, right? With the right subject. With the right, yeah. I mean, Lizzo, though, I feel like a lot, most of the people who get on the cover, it's not just, there's a bigger thing behind it, right? She kind of has a movement going in body positivity right now. She's huge for more than for lots of different reasons. Billy Eilish too, right? But what I was gonna say is, it's interesting, when you meet these people, that's the picture of

whatever they're on the cover that they highlight in their house, in a frame, it's a huge thing. But you don't see that picture, if they're on covers of like, you know, glamour magazine and covers of all sorts of other magazines, and you don't see that, right? It's like everybody knows. I've seen the frames in the houses. I don't know whether they frame them and put them off like before it comes over. We don't know the answer to that question, but I have to, I'm not assuming that that's not the case,

but yes. I'm not blowing spoke up your ass with that. I don't think so. I think that's like huge. So that's what I'm saying. I think you guys have the power to literally break an artist. Like you know like American Idol, for example, like the voice, or what all these shows. Even with all that exposure, they're going out there, they're singing, and millions of

people are watching, voting, they see the retention constant. Very few. Of course you have breakout stars, but 90% of those people you never hear from again, right? But yeah, if people don't take it seriously, again, right? But yeah, if they were, like, because people don't take it seriously, you know, but if they're with you guys, if you guys back somebody or like, you know, promoted somebody,

people automatically, like it's kind of like ingrained in your head that, oh my God, that's like that person has something, right? There's a more meaning behind it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, I think it's powerful. It means you've reached a certain level. But I also want to say that we can't, like, back to what I was saying before about leveraging the history of taking risks and moving forward and making sure that the quality of work is

there and that we're not just kind of doing what has been done. We can't rest on our laurels and I really do wish, and I'm not going to, but our cover after this one, I think is so. Who is it? You can't tell me. It might be aired later on. Come on. I'm getting a no from Rebecca.

I'm not going to say, but what is that boy or a girl? It's multiple girls. That's the most I'll say. But that's the fifth harmony. I said, I'm say. But that's fifth harmony, isn't it? I'm joking. I'm joking, I'm joking. No, it's not. But the point is it represents like,

everywhere, everything we're doing, and it's the type of thing that we just never would have done. And it's just a pushing limbs. And look, maybe it won't work. Maybe people will be like, but you got to keep evolving. And for all like this, amazing, all the amazing stuff that's happened, like we have to use that, but we have to take risks. And we were not like where we can be yet. Where do you want to be? Like what's your goal? Where do you want to be? What's your vision?

I think that as a content, we're a content company, we are journalists and tell stories. And we've done an incredible job of that in terms of putting out some of the most recognized and awarded magazine features in our history. I think we need to take that same level of just editorial excellence and apply it

to like multi-platform storytelling. So in five years from now, I want us to be producing the best documentaries that you'll see. I want us, I want our to be producing the best documentaries that you'll see. I want our Instagram stories, even like if we have TikTok, our TikTok stories, to be the most compelling and look, some things are worth our time and resources and some aren't. You have to be smart about where you take your shots, But we should be as a multi-platform business in the moving image, in the static image, in the written word, in the spoken word. So,

like we have a deal with Audible, we deal with Spotify for podcasts and audiobooks. We need to be among the best, if not the best, kind of multi-platform journalists that there are. And then from there, build all sorts of things around it. So I want to have a, we have a robust events business, but I wanted to be like three or four times the size. We have a global licensing business, but I want it to be three or four times size. But the core, the primary thing that we do and that where our opportunities are, is being outstanding journalists across multiple different platforms. I was well said. Now, when you were younger, you're saying that you love your songwriter, you play instruments. Did you want to do that for your main living?

I guess you would call it, like did you want to like follow that path more and then this whole awkward, like how did it happen that like 10 years when you were 20 years old? What did you want to do? Yeah, I think I think at that time I was, I mean, look, I was in college when I was 20

and I was like college when I was 20. I was having hilarious experience making great friendships and singing and playing. Would you have had a band? I did at the time. What kind of band was it? It was honestly, we played that country music, which was funny. Really?

Yeah. No, look, I wasn't trying to play. You played the guitar or I played the guitar. Do you play the piano also? I can, poorly, but I'm much better at the guitar. I don't know. I wasn't really thinking in like long term life terms at that point. I knew that I wanted to do something that I love.

That was kind of the, and I'm fortunate enough to have been able to be able to do that. There's a lot of people that I can't think that way, that have to do things to get by. So I felt very lucky and fortunate that I was able to take a path that made me happy that I wanted to work really hard at because I wanted to and loved to not that I just had to. And your dad that want you to kind of follow in his footsteps because

that's typically you didn't want you to. Yeah, he told me he was like this. He understood that it was a nice thing to do for a second, but he was like, this is going nowhere. And I was like, I don't want it to go anywhere. But yeah, he was like, and he was like, not only is it going nowhere, I wouldn't even want you to like have the burden of like having, like he was like, it's a no. And he's a tough guy, but then it just kind of all fell into place.

And really, as I said, like we were starting kind of a new business within the business. Like the digital thing was like nothing at the time. Right, I remember, yeah. So it was almost like a startup within this sort of iconic brand and company. And yeah, the growth was there. And then he eventually did ask me to do this.

To do it. Yeah. Your brothers or sisters? Yeah. I have two older brothers and then I have three little half siblings. Oh, how old are your brothers? My older brothers who are my full brothers are 33 and 34. And are they involved in the business at all? No, my middle brother is a very successful photographer, and he has shot a couple covers. Some of our, I mean, really some of our best covers in the last 10 years or so. He did the beautiful one of Adele, where she's wearing no makeup.

And she's got a shot of her stunning. She did the wonderful Taylor Swift on the beach. So he's a super talent, but no, he's not involved in the business, and my oldest brother's not involved at all. Well, so it's all you, all you, and the half brothers and sisters are too young yet, huh? They're 12 and 13. Yeah, so like maybe they'll be an intern in a few years, okay? I mean, I will note, it's not a family business anymore, so we're, you know, they're going

to have to apply their internship with me. All right. So I think you got a ride. I see someone giving me a move it along sister kind of thing. Well, you've been, you've been fun. Thank you for coming on habits and hustle. I didn't even really properly introduce you, but I'll fix that later. And you'll edit the entire. I'm not not gonna edit, actually, you know what? I don't edit it at all. At all.

I just normally say, Hi, today, I, you know, think, on habits in hustle, I have Gus Wiener, who is the, you know, basically the COO of Rolling Stone, but at this time, I just didn't do it. But I don't edit it at all. So what it is is what it is, you know?

Well, can I ask you one fast question? What's your favorite cover of all time that you've liked? For me? I'm not telling. No, for me it was Obama when he was running, Peter Yang took the photograph and he's looking down and smiling and it's just the logo.

I don't think there's even any cover lines. Maybe it just says like one thing about him. And he's smiling and he's looking down and smiling, and it's just the logo. I don't think there's even any cover lines. Maybe it just says one thing about him. And he's smiling and he's looking down. And it's just like, it captured the moment so unbelievably well. Like, it was so powerful. And the photographer had like five minutes with him. Like, he was like going through all these tents

and he was doing all this stuff. But like, I remember the photo director telling me that I think she had put on like Fleetwood Mac or like something where like all of a sudden like Obama was just like at ease. And you should look or anyone listening should look up at this cover or just type in like Obama, Peter Yang, Rolling Stone.

This one where smiling looking at a light is beautiful. And I was, I was the first time I ever voted and it's probably speaks to me more than any cover. Wow. When you download the Kroger app, you have easy access to savings every day. Shop weekly sales and get personalized coupons to get the most value out of every trip every time, whether you shop in-store or online. Download the Kroger app now to save big. Kroger, fresh for everyone, must have a digital account to redeem offers.

Restrictions may apply, see site for details. Save big on your favorites with the Buy, Fivermore, save a dollar each sale. Simply buy five or more participating items and save a dollar each with your card. Kroger, fresh for everyone. It's funny how like, but you said he had the music playing, music does, it does transpire every emotion, right, and feeling, right? If he had something else on, maybe you wouldn't even get that cover, right? If it was like, no.

Some other song playing, right? And then one other thing I forgot what it was, of course, but that's, that's, that's a little perks. How do people, do you, are you active on like social, you personally active on social media? Oh, I know what I want to ask you before you run off. Do you, because you are a songwriter, do you actually write some actual articles? Are you a journalist as well?

Can you write? That's how I started. I went and wrote, so I started writing stories and what I before I went into. That was like when I was in school. And but no, I don't do it much now because the running of the business is so time consuming and and but it's something that is on my mind I mean I love I'm a try to be as curious as possible I love one of the great parts of my job is

being able to spend time with some of the most interesting people in the world and so I think that in the next bit, I'll probably start to do a little bit more of it. I'm gonna ask you one more question because it's important. What's the, we're the two of the top two most interesting people that you've really had, that you met throughout this whole thing?

Well, two. You can, I don't normally do like a 20 minute interview as hard for me to just be like, you know, no, that's a really, I just I wish I had I could really think about that because it's such a good question. And for me, as I said, like one of my favorite things that I'm able to do, God, I don't know, even this past week, I spent two hours with Michael Rapino who runs Live Nation who just blew me away with his philosophy about running a business and how he leads his employees and how he's built the thing into what it is

today. I'm not saying he's my number one answer but that was this week and I walked away blown away. I know I think that like because you have your expose so much you kind of you don't even maybe realize right? Like maybe next another person, Michael Rapinoe, I think nation. Well the musicians are I mean there's there's so many fascinating people. I was with Wyclef recently and just like asking him about how he wrote the song, Perfect Gentlemen.

I don't know if you know that one, but. No, I don't. It's about a stripper. He's in the striplub. And it's really good song. You should listen to it. I will. He told me the whole story that it was actually based on a real girl that he had met in strip club and that he ran into her years later somewhere interesting like maybe an Africa or

something like that and the girl came up but he didn't run into her. He was somewhere in the girl said, it's in the song, he says her name. I can't remember the name, but the girl comes up to me and says, I gave you that lap dance. And I'm married now, and I'm a doctor or something. I'm probably getting a story a little wrong, but it was something along those lines and like, that's incredible. That is a wild story and what crazy is.

That is crazy. That is crazy. That is such a good song. So yeah, across the board, there's fascinating people. And it's one thing to hear their stories and talk to them and find out about it. But it's another thing to also collaborate with them and work on projects and build things with those people. And so that's the real joy.

And then one more part, have you ever been really disappointed in some of it? And you thought it would be something and then you met them and you're like, oh, this is not a problem. But it's constantly. Constantly. I watched it that happened, probably not at the same time. No, I don't know. It happens a lot.

I get disappointed in myself. You know what? You got it. You got to. I'm a feeling you're not the kind of person to tell me who it is. If I say who really is like not what you hope to be. I will in five minutes once we're done. Okay, that's fair. Well, you've been great. Thank you. Thank you. Maybe when I back to New York, we can maybe do a longer. Yeah, absolutely. I appreciate you having me. You're great. Thank you everybody. Oh, mine is so upper. And if it's.

I'm. Fifth Harmony. Fifth Harmony. Exactly. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. 5 3 5 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony

5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony

5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony 5th harmony This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Hala Taha, CEO of the award-winning digital media empire YAP Media, and host of YAP Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast

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