Habits and Hustle - Episode 67: Erika Nardini – CEO of Barstool Sports

Episode Date: June 9, 2020

Erika Nardini is the CEO of Barstool Sports. “That’s not how it’s done,” seems to be their lifeblood. Arguing against predetermined limitations by proving you can make it happen if you just want it bad enough. Don’t know a thing about the radio? Who cares, start a successful radio show. No room or budget for a talk show? F*** it! Create a fully branded talk show in the merch closet of your office. Do you think you need thousands of followers/views? How about you start with a loyal hundred and work up from there? Give this a listen to hear how being honest and unapologetically raw can push you through an ever saturated, competitive industry while hearing the ins-and-outs of this feral media juggernaut. They won’t limit their speech, they won’t limit their opinions, they won’t limit their talent, and all of this makes their growth limitless. Youtube Link to This Episode Erika’s Instagram Barstool’s Website ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Habits and Hustle Podcast. A podcast that uncovers the rituals, unspoken habits, and mindsets of extraordinary people. A podcast powered by habit nest. Now here's your host, Jennifer Cohen. So I had the extreme pleasure to sit down with Erica Nardini a little while back. For those of you who don't know who Erica is, she is a CEO of Barstool Sports. Barstool Sports is no joke. Probably the fastest growing lifestyle brand there is. It's a digital media juggernaut.

And she's just so impressive in such a badass. Her background and what she's doing now for bar stools is bar none, excuse the pun. You really should listen to this podcast if you wanna hear some great valuable tips and just overall business info from someone who is real authentic and will tell you exactly how it is.

Stay tuned. So Dave Portnoy founded Marshallsports in 2004 in Boston. Awesome. He's a brilliant, he's just brilliant. And he built it by himself. He says, and we now say a lot, you know, brick by brick, he had no funding, he had no help, he had no resources, but what he had was a really strong point of view. He had something to say, he was so funny,

he was incredibly creative, he got really good smart people to make content with him. And he did that, and I think it grew to be something, you know, he isn't, He is a consummate promoter. He's the single best promoter I've ever met. And he just, hand by hand, day by day, inch by inch, built this huge brand that in 2016 was arguably the single most influential brand in Massachusetts

for young guys who like sports, who like gambling, who were on the internet. And he took a majority stake or gave the Chairman and Group of Majority stake in 2016. I think they valued the company at $12.5 million. And then I joined fairly shortly thereafter, and we've just been at it ever since. Wow. So before I even get into your whole thing,

what was his background even to think that this work, besides being a great promoter? I don't think he had any assurance it would work. He was a sales guy. He was just like some guy just selling. Yeah, he had a corporate job. He hated it. He was like this sucks.

I think he was probably always very funny. Was always very funny. He's funny as funny. Yeah, I don't even mean he's exactly. He was like, this sucks. I think he was probably always very funny. Was always very funny. He's funny as funny. He's not, I mean, exactly. He either have a school for funny. Yeah, you don't go to school for funny, whether or not he had it. And what he had was a crazy work ethic. Wow, crazy work ethic. And so he was, so he was building this literally brick, brick, brick. So Trident comes in. Now you were at AOL as a CMO, right, Chief Marketing Officer? I had left. So yes, I was a CMO of AOL.

I had worked for a long time to get that job. And when I had it, I realized, oh, I don't really want to be a CMO anymore. And I left to join a company in music and to help found a company in music called Backstage. And the whole premise of Backstage was that music artists should be able to connect to their fans directly. So one of the things that's happening in the internet is that all of the money, all of the data, all of the time spent, all of the eyeballs are going to Facebook and Google essentially. And there is nothing leftover for anyone else

and they don't share the data, they don't share the money, they don't share the fans. But those companies are built on the back of creators and people like Dave or people, you know, like Justin Bieber or Ariana Grande or Coldplay or any artist. And the whole premise of backstage was that artists should be able to go direct to consumer.

They should be able to know who their fans are. They should be able to have a long-term relationship with those fans. They should get compensated for all of the time spent and engagement that they're creating on those platforms and elsewhere, and that they should be able to create incremental long-term revenue streams for themselves by virtue of the content they're creating, the attention they're bringing.

So that was really the premise of backstage. And I loved it. It was an awesome experience. I was on a plane for the majority of it between Los Angeles and New York. Really good learning. I learned a tremendous amount. And a lot of what in my head, I modeled it on was Barshtel Sports because I was a big Patriots fan.

And I lived in Boston for 10 years, I lived in Boston when Dave created it. And I remember my girlfriends and I would get literally get our store sports at the T station in Boston because we'd be like hungover on the train and they're just like looking to distract ourselves because we hated our jobs. And I remember a fan basically. Huge fan. Huge fan.

And but Dave was really smart. Dave would write a blog about Tom Brady and Roger Gidell and Deflategate. And then at the bottom of it, he was so smart, he created iconic t-shirts, essentially, that were funny and they meant something. And the bottom of every article was an ad for the t-shirts. And I remember one Saturday morning, I think it was August 14th, 2015, or probably 2015, I guess. I read a huge blog by Dave, really long blog, and at the bottom of it was a free Brady t-shirt ad.

And I bought five t-shirts. And I was like, this is it. Like, I read something, I felt something, then I want to be something. I want to be part of what the message is. And in this case, it was free Tom Brady. And that was, you know, Dave was really brilliant about that. He did that from the second he created bar stool.

And I felt like that's what music artists should be doing. I think influencers should be doing that. You should be doing that. You should be doing that. Anyone you don't need a big company anymore to be something. And I think that's so awesome. I know I think that people, what they do is they don't have the confidence to do it on their own, right? So they feel if they leverage a big brand or piggyback off a big brand.

And I think you're right, because a lot of times when I've done that so many times because with a lot of stuff I've done, and it's actually backfire, right? And, you know, because once you actually go out on your own, there's so many other opportunities that kind of come from that. And it's all about like going out there

and being, doing it. And it's so terrifying. I mean, I feel like I, I've loved my career. I've worked my ass off for, you know, 20 plus years, but I was way too safe. I was way too corporate. Like I, I, I, I didn't break out. And I, you know, now I have,

because I took a massive, you know, jump to come to Barsdol and I had, you know, taken a less seismic change, leaving AOL and going to backstage or any of the other startups I've been part, a part of, but there really is something to like grabbing life by the balls and just going for it, but it's terrifying and it's super terrifying. So what made you finally take that leap? I loved Barshtel sports, and I knew that no one else, or what I felt was that no one else saw just how big this thing was. Right, so you actually had that gut feeling. I knew it.

I knew from, you know, I knew from the minute I met Dave, just how big this could be. I thought he was awesome. I wanted to work with him. I would have taken the job for anything. So kind of it happened then. So I assumed, because of the churren group and all that AOL, that's how you kind of got yourself within the whole group, to kind of get the opportunity.

No, I know you'd be like 75 guys and all that. They had done the chairning. So when the chairning group invested in barstool sports, they, you know, Mike Kerns, who was really, you know, he was also quite visionary and he saw what he saw what barstool could be and what, frankly, it was incredibly incredibly engaging when you looked in 2016 at Google analytics and at the time it was the height of daily fantasy You looked at time spent by as measured by Google and People were spending I think 45 minutes a day and visited on average 22 times a day, which

is like gaming numbers. Those aren't media numbers, like those are gaming numbers. And the chairman groups saw that and they were smart. They hopped right on a brain. They went and met with Dave, they're good people. And they said, Dave, what would you want to do? And Dave was like, look, I would move everyone to New York. I would find someone to run this thing. I know content. I want total control of the content. And he's like, but I think that I need help in building a business.

And they hired a recruiting firm. They interviewed a ton of people, all guys. Most of them, I'm sure, like, had MBAs and work in sports and, like, looked at the part and had great jobs. And I'm sure they all, you know, have awesome jobs. Now I'm sure. But I think the thing with us is that, and the thing with Dave in particular is that it's just all gut. And when we met, it was right. Really? Yeah, it was just right. And so like from transitioning from a market, you know, chief of marketing to like the CEO position, what are the qualities about you that kind of help you do that? And to be I'd be so successful with it.

I've worked really, really hard and we have really done nothing but work for the last three and a half years, truly. I think when I left AOL, I went to be the president and chief revenue officer of backstage. So I was already moving out of marketing. Honestly, I brought every weapon I had in my arsenal, the barstool. I'd worked at Microsoft. I'd worked at Yahoo. I'd worked in, I helped take a company called Demand Media Public, which was based on Google. I'd worked at Microsoft, I'd worked at Yahoo, I'd worked in, you know, I helped take a company called Demand Media Public, which was based on Google. Right, right. I'd worked at a bunch of ad agencies, I worked at Fidelity, like I literally, whatever weapon I had, I was like, I'm going to use it for this thing. And the...

The Preparature by doing so many different things. There was so many different things. Yeah. And I was drawing on different things, you know, all the time. And mostly we just felt our way through it. Like we really just felt our way. We just felt our way through it. We worked really hard.

We were, we created an environment where that was creatively free. So you know, I describe it sometimes of like, I just wanted to bubble wrap the talent. There were 12 of them at the time that I wanted to bubble wrap that and build a business around them hopefully without them even knowing. Because I think when people start to be worried about the advertisers or worried about what Facebook thinks of their content or it brings negativity and of their content or it brings negativity and it desires for approval from someone else. And I think that's really dangerous for a creative person. When you're looking for approval, it makes you change what you're making. DQ presents Picture this.

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Besides, I love it. I love it. I besides VidCat VidCat propels himself. And most of them propel themselves. Like, you know, the difference with us is that if you go to a normal company, you know, you go to a bleacher report, you go to ESPN, you go to Fox, you go to NBC, you go to vice, you go wherever, it doesn't matter. You're going to have some person who's a business person or producer or production person say, I have an idea for a show. And I'm going to cast a pretty white woman,

I have an idea for a show and I'm going to cast a pretty white woman, a person of color, and a white guy, and I'm going to have them sit at a desk and this is what the show is going to be about and this is how long it's going to be and this is where it's going to fit. And here's the script and then we're going to put the people in the places and we're going to package something up and put it on the air. And when you look at traditional media, they don't have that much air. They have a limited amount of time.

They have one schedule. We're a company that is going bananas every day because we don't know limit. We're from the internet. The internet doesn't have a beginning and an end. It doesn't have one lane. There's unlimited lanes on the internet. So the people who succeed here

and the type of talent we create and the type of culture that we have are people who don't see limits almost in their creativity. We don't say, we've done this actually once. We had one instance where we, you know, we had our first radio deal with serious XM and serious people were like, hey, maybe you should get some grownups and maybe you should like get some people who know what they're doing and have been on the radio before. Because we, I'd never done radio before, David never done radio before, really.

So we were like, all right, right, I guess we'll do that. And what we found was that the people who came from traditional media couldn't operate in our culture because we don't do one thing at one time. We have people who, you know, given example, I was talking to Riggs. Riggs is, when I got to bar stool, Riggs is from St. Louis. He went to Harvard and he was the Harvard politics guy. He was a blogger. And this was in 2016. In 2020, Riggs has a top three golf podcast. He's created an amateur golf tour.

He's created a whole line of merchandise. He hosts our number one flagship radio show. Now, that wasn't because we sat down and said, rigs, what's your four year plan? And where you going, rigs just happened organically. And that's, if you look at another example, we have these two really phenomenally talented women. And they have a show called Chicks in the Office,

Ria and Fran. We hired Ria and Fran in 2016 as interns. They didn't know each other. Rhea was, I think, in nursing or dental school. Fran was also in college. We two different guys brought them in as their interns. Fran, like sports, Rhea, not so much. We had a merchandise closet downstairs where we put all the boxes of merch that we were

creating. And we had no studio space. We had run out of, we had outgrown our office already. And we had no place to film or shoot. And so we said, you know what? Like, actually, we didn't even say they, these women just went down into the merch closet and they started to create a show called Chicks in the Office. And Chicks in the Office was what the barstool guys would yell when a woman showed up

because there were no women when I got there. So they'd be like, Chicks in the Office and everyone's like, that's so sexist. And I'm like, yeah, maybe, but these two women just chose it as their brand. And that's what I think what's awesome for women right now is they're choosing stereotypes

and they're making them their own. So, Rianne France set about making a show, created a one minute show every day on Instagram. It was awesome. They crushed it. They had graphics. They had an awesome producer, was a guy named Noah, and he and they built this juggernaut of a daily entertainment show, Zero Production Budget. They filmed it in Emerge and Dice an merchandise closet. They didn't ask permission.

They just started doing it. And then we were like, hey, you guys are early on to something. Why don't you create a podcast? So they created a podcast. We said, why don't you do a radio show? And so they had a radio show. The day before they went on, actually, I think the day that they went on radio for the first time,

they came up to me. I think Fran came up to me and was like, I've never been on the radio. I don't know how to do radio. And I was like, well, I don't know how to do radio either. So why don't you just go in there? The mic is on and just start talking. And that's how we did it. And now they have another show on Snapchat called the group chat.

And they're on fire. They're re-as part of our TikTok squad. So they, they've just organically really grown and the thing that's been frustrating for me in the process is I remember getting in this long, involved fight with Snapchat because we wanted to have a chick's in the office show on Snapchat. Yeah. And the Snapchat guys, guys, were like, that's sexist to have a show called chicks in the office. You cannot have a show called chicks in the office. And so I was like, okay, so let me get this 100% straight that you want me to go tell to women who created the show and who created the brand that they cannot use the brand that

they created because it's sexist. Like that's bullshit. Right. So because they're scarce. Snapchat guys were scared that it's going to be a blast. They're scared that somebody's going to be like, oh, a barstool sports as a show called Chicks and Offs like whatever.

Like, and we'll get past that and I don't care. I actually think it's like fine, but it's, it's just funny. So I think that we've just organically grown and we've fought for ourselves every single step of the way and we've held true. So I was like, okay fine, we're not gonna have a show on Snapchat. We're not gonna change the brand.

Right, right, right, so comedy. Okay, you don't want us on your air because to women creating, I can't think of something more sexist than telling women that they're show that they created they cannot use. Like I just won't do that. Right. And this was like, like I said, I think a lot of it's fear based because not necessarily because those two guys think that way, but they actually agreed. They're like it's a great name

of shows, great brand. I'm like why wouldn't you want this brand there? But they're afraid of what women will say about them for having a show called Chicks in the Office that too white men and green lip, you know? Exactly. So it would be like, it would be, there'd be too much backlash. That's why every other brand or other company, like to your point, is so scared of like, you know, stepping that they don't step and they're so like apprehensive. Yeah, that's right. And then you're paralyzed.

And then you're paralyzed. And then you don't become like, you don't become like an actually organic brand that people care about because it's so white, bread, water down. And that's why you're probably so, that's why you guys are so successful. It's cool. I know you're welcome. And so how do you normal, besides those girls, of course, who are like, we're interns, how do you normally find talent on the internet, always on the internet?

So like what people are constantly, people send us shit all the time, and I'm sure out of control, right? Like thousands and thousands and thousands of DMs. We have really talented people at barstool and the single most valuable people are the people who understand how to watch the internet and to make content for the internet and these guys and girls

They're just watching all the time. What's popping? Yeah, and they see it like who's working like who's breaking through like we found this woman Named Ellie Schmidt and Ellie Schmidt is it should maybe 22. I would say she's in her early 20s She had graduated from college. She was a nanny We started seeing her on Twitter our guys started seeing her on Twitter and we're like, there's something to this girl, there's something to this girl. And the reason they said that is she would tweet and she was like, the queen of sorority Twitter is how I would describe Ellie at the time. And she would tweet and it would have 15,000 likes. In a matter of hours, Ellie was just electric on Twitter.

Wow. They DM'd her and said, Hey, like we're bar still sports. Like would you ever wanna have a, could we have you come into the office and meet us and would you ever want to work here? And I think Ellie probably at the time, she was nanny-ing, she probably was like, I'm gonna go have to get a real job so I can pay rent and move out of my parents house or whatever

in Chicago. And now she has a top podcast. She is just a breakthrough personality for us. What's the podcast called? It's her name. It's called Schnitt Talk. Oh, I saw that on your network. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's great. It's awesome. It's a great name. But like, Ellie, I don't think two years ago would have been like, I'm gonna have a podcast and be a personality at Barshtool Sports, right? Like, ever. Right.

That's amazing. Yeah, that's cool. She's the best. That's a great way. So there's like, so that, is it just her talking like shit? Yeah, she has a co-host. Her co-host is a woman named Alana. We hired Alana as a graphics editor for the Snapchat show for the chicks in the office,

which didn't actually end up getting made. So Alana had nothing to do. And so Ellie and Alana kind of hit it off, and then Alana became the co-host of Shnitalk. Oh my God, that's hilarious. But that's like, you don't, like, there was no plan. It was like, like, they like each other. A lot of it doesn't have a lot to do right now

and let's put them together and put them together. Let's put them together. That's where they put themselves together. It wasn't even let's put them together. They were like, we want to do the show together. We're doing the show together. Oh my God, that's hilarious. That's funny.

That's a great name too. Yeah, Shnettalk is a great name. Wow. Okay, so then, so beside, okay, so basically you have people who are basically finding these people who have already in addition to other jobs. We don't have a talent development group at first. Like nobody has one job.

Like nobody has one job. So our social guys, in addition to posting all of our content, we have 800 social accounts. We post 500,000 pieces of content a year are looking for people on the internet because they're staring at their phones and they're on the internet, are they? Constantly. That's what people do now.

That's all they do, right? So basically, all those areas, what would be the most popular part of bar stools? Oh, it's hard because it's different. There's so many different parts. Like our socials really, really popular. Pizza thing. One bite is insane.

I mean, we have the single largest database of pizza in the world. Who would have thought that would? I mean, it's like, we're in like, we're in the food category. We don't even say we're in the food category. Dave Portnoy literally moved to New York City and was like, I love pizza. He's always loved pizza. He done, you know, maybe three pizza reviews. He's blindingly funny, like electrically funny. And there's

something mesmerizing about watching this guy say he's going to take one bite of a piece of pizza and shovel like 17 bites in his mouth. That's really a bad buddy. So pizza reviews are doing millions of views. Yeah. We post that every single day of the week. So that's a jug or not. Part of my take the jug or not. Like there's, we got a lot of jug or not.

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Simply buy five or more participating items and save a dollar each with your card. Kroger, fresh for everyone. The thing is, I've also find, like, you would tell me, like, once you already have traction, it's really, it's much easier to momentum. Yeah, once you have it, it's easier to maintain it. What do people, like, not like you, I know you won't know, maybe you don't know this, but, like, how do people even, like, start that, right? Because I mean, you need, it's, they can need money and to make money.

You need momentum to get momentum, right? I think that anyone can do what we, I think there's only one barstall sports. There's never going to be another barstall sports. The reason there's never going to be another barstall sports is because of Dave. So in the internet, when everyone like me was buying traffic, trading links, syndicating video, all this shit on the internet, which really amounted to a lot of numbers

on slides for advertisers, but never converted to humans, Dave held everything. He held it to himself. He held it to bar stool. So and he knew, you know, hey, you could say that I have a thousand, you know, or you could say I have 10,000 hits or 50,000 views, but I know if I have a hundred people, I can sell a hundred T-shirts. And I only want, I want to sell T-shirts. So a hundred people matters more to me than a fictitious number in the thousands Absolutely, and it's a it's a true authentic engagement completely and also at that time There wasn't as much competition and fragmentation like if you look in the in the two thousands like He gave told me a story once about how he used to do the show called Chat Roulette, where

he would just like talk to random people on the internet and on video. And he's so funny. So funny. But then the other things where he would be able to find a story and sit on it for a week. And now there's so much competition on the internet. You can't sit on anything for 15 minutes, let alone a week. So that's why they'll be never anything like Barstle because he was able to build a really loyal big brand in a time when there was less competition.

And anyone who's creating something now, you're creating it in competition. And what I think is possible for people is that like if you have an idea and you have a point of view, we never had any money. When I got to Barstale Sports, I think our best at our like highest point in 2016, we had $2 million in the bank, which I'm sure to a one person is a lot. If you look at, we're going up against ESPN

that probably, I don't know how much money they have in the bank, but we're way more than $2 million. Most part of Disney, right? Totally. But we just started to post all the time. We make content all the time. We shared opinion all the time. And so I think anyone can do this.

I think you just have to have something to say. You have to believe in it. You have to be able to get through the hate on it, which is people are going to shit all over you. And you can't let that get to you. And then you need to keep, you have to be super consistent. And also, I was curious, when someone comes in and buys a big chunk, even as part of your deal, then the actual content, they have no control of it, right?

Yeah, they don't control, pen national doesn't control bar sales. You guys have all creative control. We do. That's part of the deal I would imagine. And that's what they want, which is they don't know anything about running a, I don't know anything about running a casino. That would be like, you're not gonna put me in charge of a casino. I would have zero idea. What do you figure it out?

We would figure it out. They could probably figure out a media business too, but we are two separate companies today. We've taken their investment. The Penn National guys are awesome. They'll sit on our board. Yeah, you do. You actually, you guys do.

Okay, good, good, good. But they, you know, there are places where we'll have to evolve. We've had to evolve a lot in the last, you know, three and a half years. Like, me too wasn't a thing in 2016. PC culture wasn't really a thing in 2016. Like the Trump election changed everything. And so we've had to evolve a lot, we're going to have to evolve more. Penn National is a publicly traded company. They are in a highly, the one of the most regulated spaces in the United States.

We gotta learn how to make content for that. And it's gonna have rules that we've never had before and disclosures we didn't know about. So we're gonna figure it out, but we're gonna figure out in our way. Right. And then like, so I wanna get back to you for a minute. What, so give me a day in the life.

What do you do? Okay, I, what do I do? I do a lot. I, what time do you wake up? I wake up at 7 a.m. Okay, always 7 a.m. Usually. Yep.

You still travel a ton? Not as much. I have been traveling as of late, but not like I used to. So I get up at 7. I don't check my phone right away. Like I get dressed. I like get out of my house, I walk to the train. You want me to breakfast or work out?

Or I'm medics hated, not the other, I don't do any of that. I don't think people can say. Nope, I remember being on a panel once and the question was like successful people, what's your workout? And I was like, I'm usually like, had too much red wine the night before.

I'm hungover dehydrate and tie heat water. Like I'm dehydrated and tired. I love like a large red eye coffee with a ton of cream in it. I'll nurse that until, you know, mid afternoon. So I get to work. I am on my phone all the time. So you get to work at what time then? I get to work.

It depends like on a day where I like early. I get to work at what time then? I get to work, it depends on a day where I, like early, I get to, unless I have something, I get to work, best case scenario is like 845. More likely I get to work by like 930. Okay. I work from the minute I get, the minute I get on the train, I just get to work.

I always get to work. I live far from work. It doesn't take me two hours, but from like wake up to get on the train, I just take it two hours. I always get to work. I live far from work. It doesn't take me two hours, but like from like wake up to get to the office, I have started walking. I now walk to the office from Grand Central Station, which is good for me. That's exercise.

So you do exercise. Yeah, I do exercise. I play hockey. You play hockey? Yeah, I'm learning how to play hockey, which I love. You're learning to play hockey. In July, I was. That's unique. Yeah, it's awesome how to play hockey, which I love. You're learning to play hockey in July. I was unique. Yeah, it's awesome sport.

I love it. I'm Canadian. Oh, you're preaching to the third fee. I love hockey. So I love hockey too. I used to play floor hockey. Oh, that's awesome. You could play hockey easily though.

I love hockey. I've never had anybody ever say to me, especially a girl, you know, I'm taking up hockey. I mean, like it's always like hockey, I love it, I'm obsessed. Yeah, no, it's like tennis or golf. Yoga, no, no, I'm zero interested in yoga. Me too. You and I can be friends. Yeah, we could be friends, this is fun.

This is just the beginning. This is good. So then I, are you doing floor hockey? Or I thought, I thought, I thought, so are you learning how to actually skate? Yes, I had never really skated before July of this past year. See, that's super hard as an adult. So it's a word, but it's really good for you.

Oh, it's amazing. I think it actually has done like so much for me personally. It's the, you know, so at the beginning I was skating probably four times a week. And it was and it was off, getting ice, as you know, this isn't a problem in Canada, but it's a huge issue. And you can't get ice time, especially if you're not, you know, on a team or a... Yes, I heard it.

It's very competitive to get ice time. So I was skating at like five in the morning or more likely like 10, 30 at night. Oh wow. Awesome coach. And I just like, gritted my way through it, like figured it out, but it was the one, it was like the one hour of time every day that or every time I skated that I could not use my phone. And you have to concentrate, it really hurts to fall on the ice. And it's hard because your brain, when

you're an adult, I think it's harder to learn new things, like you get more rigid. And to learn something new, like how to do a crossover in hockey was so hard for me. Like I chipped away at that crossover for months, and it was really hard for me, because I couldn't figure out my brain how to do it. And I would obsess about it. I'd be like, on the train the next day and be like, shit, I should have really done this with my outside edge versus that.

So it's really opened up a lot for me where one, it's like a very relaxing, it's not relaxing in the moment, but it's very calming. And then two is like, it's not relaxing in the moment, but it's very calming. And then two is like, it's good for me to chew on something. Like I've been chewing on burstal sports now for three and a half years. It's good to chew on something else.

Yeah. So now I play in like a men's league on Sunday nights. Like I play with a bunch of cops who are awesome. I love them. This is amazing. And you have all the gear on? Yeah, I have all the gear. Because the gear is like the hard thing too.

That's the worst. Yeah. It's the worst. That's why a lot of people are like, oh, the gear on. Yeah, I have all the gear. Because the gear is like the hard thing to do. That's the worst. It's the worst. That's why a lot of people are like, oh, the gear back, all on and off. And you get sweaty in the gear. Yeah, totally. You stink like the gear stinks. My glove stinks. Exactly.

Yeah. It's a whole get up. It's not cute. You do not look cute when you're playing hockey. Like it's, you look like you have like a big dump in your pants. Yes, exactly. It's not cute. But that's fun.

Awesome. I, when I started skating, I had with this guy, Mike Grinnell, who is the producer of Svit and Chicklets, which is the number one hockey podcast, which is awesome. He gave me his dad's a hockey coach. He gave me all his stuff from high school. So I had his elbow pads from high school. I had his chest protector, a shin guards.

I love that. I think it's all I had. Yeah, it's awesome. And then Bauer was like, do you want some stuff? And I was like, yes,, a shingards. I love that. I think it's all I had. Yeah, it's awesome. And then Bauer was like, do you want some stuff? And I was like, yes, please. That is amazing. I would never have guessed that, especially also Americans. They don't like hockey's on a big deal.

No, forget about girl or even guy. That's big. You're coming up bigger deal, but not. Yeah, but it's not football. No, I agree. Not even close. Yeah, like I have a couple of friends, Canadians, who live in LA and like they go play hockey all the time

and they take their kids to play hockey. And I want to take my kids. But like, it's like no one's like, there's like, what? Take your kid to the park. Yeah, like soccer or basketball or something easier. Something easier. Because like you said also the time it takes.

Because of the ice. Some pain in the ass. It's a pain in the ass. But it's a great sport. It is an awesome sport. And people, it's so underrated here. Yeah, because of the ice. It's a pain in the ass. It's a pain in the ass. But it's a great sport. It is an awesome sport. And people, it's so underrated here. I love that you do that.

Yeah, it's so fun. I love it. It's like the single best thing that I've done. Like, it's awesome. Awesome. Okay, so then what else do we do? Okay, so then I'm like, I have very tight calendar. I like to be meeting with people or doing something at all times.

I do not like, like, if I don't have a packed day where I'm moving stuff forward and meeting with people and making things happen, I get like I don't like it. I think that I spend I like to think at night or I like to think on my commute or chew on things on the weekends or like if I go for a run or something like that, but during the day, during the week, I want to make as much I can humanly possibly make happen in a day. That's amazing. So what do you work at?

Like give me an example. Are you doing strategic partnership? I'll be meeting with, like I say yes, like I say yes to really, I'll meet with most anyone. Because I always keep going to call you all day now. I'll, yeah. I don't know. But like I want to meet with my team. I'll want to meet with most anyone. Because I always keep on calling you all day now. Oh, yeah. I don't know. But I want to meet with my team.

I'll want to meet, you know, I like to keep my hands and like, what's happening here at this company? Like, what are we doing right? What do we have to fix? What are we doing wrong? You know, like we're at the Super Bowl. I woke up this morning at six and I had this panic because we have a huge party tonight. We have a huge live event.

I haven't seen a lot in my email on it the last like day and a half. So I'm like, all right, well, what are we, what are we doing? Like, do we have our shit together tonight? So I'm like, all right, where are we on this? Where are we on this? Where are we on this? Which is probably annoying to people who work here, which I understand. Like, I I can crawl up your ass and sit there for a very long time. It's right, which I realize people don't like. But then, we need to do this. We're in this hotel in Miami, and we have, I don't know, a 1,500 T-shirt, sweatshirts,

jackets, all this shit lying around, all this hotel. And I'm like, I know what's gonna happen. It's Friday today. On Saturday morning, everybody's gonna be hung over it. They're gonna get up, get on their flight. And they're gonna leave all of our crap all over this hotel. So I'm like, we can't do that.

So who's doing what? So it's anything from like, what are we doing really tactically like that to, hey, what's the future of local sports radio? And we have taken a big investment from a company in the sports betting space. Sports betting is going to be legalized on a state-by-state basis.

I want to be the brand when something happens in Michigan and sports betting becomes legal in Michigan. Who are our Michigan guys? Like what are we doing that covers Michigan sports? Now Dave's from Michigan, Dave went to Michigan, so we've got a natural advantage there, but how do we think about what we're doing

in knowing what's changing in the world? Like another example is Instagram is really changing. Like Instagram, what works on Instagram, what Instagram likes, what Facebook likes, changes all the time. And so I spend a lot of time think, want to meet with Instagram, too. I want to meet with our crew that works on Instagram because I think they know more than sometimes

the Instagram will do. Then I want to think about like, okay, so this is what's happening on Instagram because I think they know more than sometimes the Instagram. Instagram, I do. Then I want to think about, okay, so this is what's happening on Instagram. What does that mean for barstual sports? What does that mean for us? Should we spend more time there? Should we spend less time there? Should we spend more time on TikTok? What should we be doing, understanding what's happening everywhere else?

Right. So you do a lot of macro, but you do a lot of micro. Yeah, totally. I'm a big, like, I'm all over the place. You do both. But like a lot of CEOs don't, like, don't, they don't care about the minutiae, right? And you do.

I love minutiae. Yeah, I love, like one of the hardest things I always had as a manager was like, I just want to be next to the people doing the stuff. I wasn't ever good at the people who took all their teams work and packaged it up and then presented it to you in a way that they thought you wanted to see it. I hate that. I like literally what a fucking waste of time. So I'm like, I just want to talk to the person doing it.

And like, what do they know and what do they learn and what are they seeing and not like, so I'm more like that. Like the detail. I just want to understand like what are you seeing? Yeah, it's like, I don't want you to tell me what you're seeing because you think in a way that you think I'm going to like it or I don't like that. I think that means like I'm not doing that person any justice or service. I'm not doing our company any service. But I think a lot of companies frankly work that way where they spend so much time on the packaging of information about the company, about the industry, about the category for executives within that company. I think that's like such a colossal waste of time.

The other thing is I think a lot of CEOs, they only want to operate at like a quote-unquote executive level. Like, they don't want to be with the people. And like, I want to be able like a quote-on quote executive level. Like they don't want to be with the people. And like I want to be able to be with people. They're elitist is what it is. Yeah, like it's like I remember RCRO is a woman named Dear Darlister and she's amazing. She worked at a bunch of companies and you know,

one of her first things when she got here, I was like, how's it going? And she's like, God, you're like very like involved in understanding of the business and hands on. And she's like, I've had three CEOs that like couldn't tell you what advertisers were working with or couldn't tell you, you know, what the problems were in the sales work.

So it's like, I just think you're not a good, you're, you could be a better CEO if you understood what's happening on a ground level like your company Absolutely, so I was curious. What do you think of TikTok is TikTok now gonna be is Instagram not gonna be obsolete Obviously, but you know how like with Facebook when all the old people went to Facebook all the kids left and they went to Instagram Now I feel like all the old people when I say old like not not 10, you know, are now on Instagram. Are they all going to TikTok? No, the old people are not going to go to TikTok.

Right. So now for now, TikTok is awesome. I think they have as a company, some regulatory issues in the US, like that it's from China, I think, is an issue for a lot of people. There's a lot of probably very legitimate concern with that. They have some hurdles to jump through. As a consumer platform, it is breathtaking how fast they're growing, just absolutely breathtaking.

And I think what's happening is Facebook is exerting more control over Instagram. Facebook is making Instagram more like Facebook. The young people don't like that because young people don more like Facebook. The young people don't like that because young people don't like Facebook. The same time Instagram needs to monetize, so you're going to find, and you probably see this now,

there's more ads, there's more ads, there's less content. So I think Instagram is changing. I think the ways that they're changing are becoming more conservative. I think that TikTok is a platform that is extremely wild and free, and that's what youth likes. Yeah, and that's why I mean, how much are you guys now gearing mostly to wars? Not mostly, Instagram is a juggerot of a platform. And I don't mean to be like, we love Instagram. Like we're on it all the time. We see it change, but it's also a really,

really important platform for us. We're on Facebook, we're on YouTube, we're on Google, we're on Twitter, we're on Snapchat, we're on everything. But we have eyes for TikTok. Wow, okay, yeah. Because people are like, oh, Instagram, I mean, for people like my generation, right? For me, I don't know, I don't even know where I begin on TikTok. Oh God.

I'm not gonna make a dance video, so like that's out. Besides doing, yeah, I was gonna say besides doing a dance video, what do people even do? I'm like such an old person, I guess. I think it's like, what did I do on TikTok? Of your life, like it's just the way, you know, I was having an interesting conversation with Dave about it yesterday.

Like his observation was that you, when you see a video on TikTok, there's always a moment where you kind of break the frame and it's a little imperfect. So it's like a short, very short, like snippet of like what's happening, but something's imperfect. Yes. So it's like a short, very short, like snippet of like what's happening, but something's imperfect. Yes. And there's always a glimpse.

And maybe that's why it's doing well because it gets tough. It's real, it's just like weird. It's like bar stool-esque. Yeah, it's just a little weird. It's like quirky. It is quirky. And that's what I think what works,

because with Instagram, everyone's life is like, it's so perfect. It's like, oh, everyone's on vacation. And exactly. Exactly. And the film family is so perfect. It's like, oh, everyone's on vacation. And, exactly. And the film family is so perfect. And like TikTok is not that. Oh, it's not at all. And I think once that I think when it's smoothed out,

like it has on Facebook and on Instagram, it becomes like not pass a, but not. Yeah, you're like, yeah, you're scrolling. Exactly, next. And so, okay, but not. Yeah, you're like, yeah, you're scrolling. Exactly, next. And so, okay, so then, what is, so how do you work on the weekends? Do you work at night? I work during the week I work all the time,

and I do not work on the weekends. So what time do you get home at night? I get home. Did you have a family too? Yep, I get home at like 7.30, and then like a hangout, and then I get back to work. You go back to work or not in the office,

but I'm on my phone at night. So it's really basically your rule is just not on the weekend. I don't work really on the weekends. I don't like to work on the weekends tired by the time the weekend shows up. I wanna have a weekend. Right.

I hated like when I worked at big companies, there was always like the Sunday scaries, where like the emails would start flying at like 7.45 on, I was like, I fucking hate this. Like I just want to have my Sunday night. Yeah. So I don't, I don't like to do that. Now we, we often work on weekends

because we've got a live event or a show or something. So when we're working on a weekend, you're working on a weekend. you're working on a weekend, but if it's a random weekend in July, like I'm at the beach. Right, you are. Oh wow. Okay, so you like you've tried,

like you actually like take it off and you're able to kind of shut down your brain and not do it. Yeah, definitely. That's amazing. Breathe in, breathe out. Get dressed, head out, grab some frames, camp out. Get hyped up, breathe out. Get dressed, head out. Grab some friends, camp out.

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OK, so can we talk really quickly about like next steps for you and what you want to do? Yeah, OK, so what am I doing? What am I doing? I'm going to do a little more of this. I'm flirting with a podcast. So I like to have a podcast. What made you want to do a podcast?

I don't know that I would be a good podcaster. I also am respectful that we have a company full of brilliant podcasters. I think the worst thing is like people who shouldn't be content, people trying to be content, people. But one of the things that's been really frustrating for me personally at our school is I just rarely get I Don't always have an interview or a conversation like this like you're very open. You're curious. You want to thank you You want to learn like you want to share like Most times when I do an interview it's it's my words are in the context of somebody else's opinion and my words are in the context of somebody else's opinion. And my words are in the context of somebody else's opinion on the company that I run, the

brand that has been around since 2003, or their opinion of a person who's really important to me, which is Dave and the founder, or our personalities, or our people. So there's all sorts of judgment, agenda, perspective, and look, I respect all that. I'm like, all in. Media should be media. People should say what they want to say. But what's been hard for me is that I haven't been able to tell my story, our story, or our story in a way that gives me the creative freedom to do it, like, or the space to do it. So I'm working on a podcast. I am interested.

You heard it here first. Yeah, I heard it here first. I wasn't gonna share, like, I, it's not ready yet. And what it's about is that you can be yourself and be successful. I want to interview regular people in their jobs in what they're doing, what makes them tick, like, what's funny, what's not funny, what's horrible, what's not horrible, what have they learned, what have they done. We'll do a ton of stuff like that.

We are creating a part of it called the assistance. And it's just stories from assistance, which I have to be in that video. That's amazing. Are the best stories in a company, and assistance knows everything about a company. I can't agree more. So we'll do things like that, and then, I know who's gonna be on there. You're your cutest assistant over there.

Yeah, this is on the first, my co-host. Yeah, it's your co-host. Yeah. Really? Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, I love that. The assistance was her idea.

So like, that's cool. Like, we're gonna do that. That's amazing. I'm doing. The assistance was her idea. So that's cool. Like, we're gonna do that. That's amazing. I'm doing an episode on Women's Hockey. So that's a big one, which would be cool. That's a good one. So we'll do all sorts of things. I don't know how it's gonna go.

I don't really know what it's going to be like, but I feel like I have this moment in time and this platform that makes great content. And if I can put something on there that finds an audience, great, we'll keep it if they don't, I'll kill it. So that's it. And fortunately, you have a great platform

to try it out. Yeah, we try everything around here. So you guys should do that too. Anything you do though, like bar stool, it turns to gold. Your podcast platform is great. Is there one podcast on there that is not like a super success. We have, we fail every day. I think that's the other thing is that people think like, oh, we like touch it and it's

gold. Now, a lot of times we strike gold because I think we understand the internet better than anybody. And we have really supremely crazy, crazy talented people, crazy talented people. And I think if you have crazy talented people who are smart and hungry and given the space to create, like anything can happen. But we have a lot of bombs. Like we have a lot of dogs around, like things don't work all the time. Podcasts, videos, radio shows, blogs, business ideas, t-shirt ideas, partnerships.

So, we just try to, we're pretty blunt. So, if it doesn't work, we cut it. We cut it. And I guess people only see the success, right? Like, anything in life, right? And you never see the failure. And frankly, I think people see failure in us more than you see in other places because we don't try to hide failure.

And we're not shy about it. But yeah, you only see the success. Like yeah, I don't you know, and I go talked with media outlet. I'm not like, oh Jesus We had three really shitty podcasts. Exactly. Yes, I mean that sucked. But there are things like, you know, we had a show on ESPN that lasted one night. It was very controversial. The cancellation was very controversial. Like that was a fuck up.

We shouldn't have done that. Now I don't regret it. I wouldn't change it. I wouldn't change what came out of it. It propelled us to a whole new place. It catalyzed us doing a whole lot of things, but that's just what life is. Yeah, no 100%.

I think that's true. You know, like I was they say, it looks like to the outside, you guys are successful with everything you guys touch, right? Yeah, but people don't see like every day, but grind. Yeah. Exactly the grind. And I feel like it even as you're even with your success and the company's success, it's still a grind. It's a grind every single day.

And it's up at 6am working by 6.45 this morning. See, and I think that that's like a really good message also that people think that once you hit a certain level of success. Yeah, like post. Like if we coast, we're fucked. You're fine. I have zero interest in that. You're not able to, like no one's able to coast

because it's always like what's next, what's next, what's next. Best people are always looking next. Absolutely. Well, you've been a delight. Thank you so much. This is fun. been into life. Thank you so much. This is fun. This was great. Thank you so much for coming on.

You're welcome. Because I know you're slammed here. We're at the Super Bowl, like you're saying. And you have a party like in a few hours. Yes. It's cool. It's been amazing meeting you finally. Thank you so much.

I'm so excited. Thank you for having me. Oh, it's believe me. Come on again. All right, I will. Good luck on your podcast. I'll be coming. I'll be coming.

You are going to come on my podcast. Okay, good. All right, thank you. Thank you. Tell everyone, oh, you don't do social media, like for yourself. Oh, yeah, I'm all over it. Am I all over social media? We'll be through Twitter.

I do Twitter, I have an Instagram. Okay, just look at you. Okay, she's a CEO of bar stills, Eric and Ardini. If you want to follow her, you know how to do it. Yeah, you can find me. You can find you. Yeah, exactly. Thank you.

Cool, exactly. Thank you. Thank you. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time.

Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time.

Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Have a good time. Excuse me, we in heaven, that the habits and hustle podcasts, power by happiness. You will fail. So what? Everybody does.

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