Habits and Hustle - Episode 76: Dr. Paul Saladino – Bestselling Author of The Carnivore Code, Board-Certified Physician Nutrition Specialist

Episode Date: August 11, 2020

Dr. Paul Saladino is the Bestselling Author of The Carnivore Code and a Board-Certified Physician Nutrition Specialist. After over a decade of experimenting with different diets, Dr. Saladino has stumbled into an animal-product-only diet for the past couple of years. Working against everything we assume to know about health and food Saladino challenges our minds and our stomachs consuming the meat you’d expect and, perhaps, the organs you wouldn’t: steak, liver, pancreas, and any other part of an animal you can think of assuring the importance of nutrition in animals “from nose-to-tail.” Curious about a “carnivorous diet?” Wondering why you’re “eating healthy” and not seeing results? Stomach issues that seem unsolvable? Take a listen… maybe on an empty stomach, though. The man talks about eating testicles. Youtube Link to this Episode Dr. Paul’s Instagram Dr. Paul’s Website ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to The Habits and Hustle Podcast. A podcast that uncovers the rituals, unspoken habits and mindsets of extraordinary people. A podcast powered by habit nest. Now here's your host, Jennifer Cohen. First of all, thank you for coming on the podcast, have it, and how so we love that you love it, you're here. Paul Saladino is your name, and you wrote the part of work code. And basically, all you do is eat meat. Do you eat meat?

There it is. I was like, I'm reading your PDF. I was, I am, this interview happened faster than I thought, so I tried to get my bearings, but basically, you're, you're believed, and it feels like it's very controversial right now too, right? Because everything now is what we get in a bad based diets and you're the opposite. I'm the opposite. It's good to be the outlier. It's good to be controversial. It's fun to question the status quo, but yeah. Absolutely. based diets and you're the opposite. I'm the opposite.

It's good to be the outlier. It's good to be controversial. It's fun to question the status quo. But yeah, we've always been interesting in questioning the status quo. And yeah, my view, the things I talk about in the Carnivore code are in response. In some ways, in response to the current plant-based movement,

really trying to ask the questions to the audience or to the reader or the listener of the audio book, hey, why have we been told that meat is bad for us? What science is that based on? Is it really true science? How long have humans been eating meat? What sort of a role did it plan or evolution? I think it played a pretty incredibly

indispensable role in our evolution. And then is it possible that plants are bad for us? Do they have toxins? And I think they do. And they exist on a plant-talk to city spectrum. And so lots of really kind of, lots of really challenging questions for us to answer.

Absolutely. So basically, before I even get into all of this stuff, are you basically saying that do you eat meat for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks? Is that basically what you do? Is that what I've heard? And that's what I kind of gathered. Is that accurate?

It's pretty accurate. I eat animal foods. I don't just eat meat, I eat organs. Organs? Yeah. So the mainstream audience is likely to be able to be a little bit grossed out by that kind of stuff, but we can back it up. But I'll just say, I eat animal foods exclusively at this point, though in the carnivore code, I do talk about sort of a spectrum of plant toxicity,

and I talk about which plants might be more and less toxic, because I realize that for 98% of people reading the book, they're probably going to want to be carnivore-ish rather than fully carnivorous in their diet It brings up very interesting talking points and kind of It's very Fascinating thing to consider though can humans live Can humans thrive on only animal foods and I think that we can we have we do I think there are Plants that are more and less toxic, and I kind of elaborate

on that spectrum of toxicity in the book because I realize that most people will want to eat some plants, but a lot of plants are triggering to people in ways they're not expecting or not being aware of, and that leads to a lot of kind of unforeseen or unnoticed problems people end up with like long-time gut issues or auto-immunity, and so there's some nuance there that I get into. So I've done some experiments with plant foods over the last few weeks to months. I'm wearing a continuous glucose monitor right now. And I'm eating some of the less toxic plant foods

that I talk about in my book, The Carnivore Code, and that I'll talk about in a cookbook which I've got coming out in the fall. But for the most part over the last two years, I've eaten almost exclusively animal foods. And again, this isn't to say that you can only eat animal foods, that humans should only be eating animal foods. But number one, the animal foods are nutritious. There are critical part of every human diet. They're an integral part of a human diet to be fully healthy. We always forget about the organ meats. We always forget about liver and other organs. And

that plants are just on a spectrum of toxicity and eliminating the most toxic ones can lead to pretty profound improvements in health for a lot of people who are kind of stuck otherwise. So what I eat doesn't have to be the way that everyone eats. There's different levels that I describe in the book. But yeah, we're gonna talk all about that. You know, but hold on, so yeah, you call it, I see all the time, it's that you from nose to tail, right? So which means all organs, all everything. It's not just like a stake or whatever. It's like a plethora of different pieces that we're going to get into. So, and you are a medical doctor too. Yeah. And so like, you're not just the like Yahoo who just decided to like do this. Like you, you have like a baseline to be talking about this

and have like the knowledge based who even start this whole process. Yeah, what's interesting is I'm an MD. I'm board certified. I did a full residency at the University of Washington. And what's interesting is there are other medical doctors who are also board certified and done residencies who think that complete opposite thing for me.

So it gets to these very, very intriguing conversations and they're all kind of built on this foundation that none of us learned nutrition in medical school. And there's really no experts in nutrition today. Even a nutritionist isn't an expert in nutrition because they're just learning something that they read in a textbook. Most textbooks are written by people who are playing bass these days and again we can talk about why that is, but you know, it's quite interesting. I actually took a board exam to become a

Physician nutritionist and that board exam is written by people who are plant-based. So if Yeah, yeah, it's absolutely written by people who are plant-based. And in order to pass that board exam I had to answer questions that I believe to be wrong, and that if I were in a room with those people, I could provide 10 studies to show why the answer that they want to the question is wrong. That's neither here nor there, but it's a very interesting point that mainstream nutrition, even this board certification to be a physician nutritionist is written with a plant-based agenda in mind.

And so, no one is really an expert here. We're all trying to think outside the box. With the purpose of questioning the status quo so that people who are suffering can find relief from their suffering. A lot of people are not healing. Absolutely. And you're kind of like, what was your path? Like, you started this because you had an autoimmune disorder, right? Because you you had X-M-A, right? Is that what you had? That's what I had. And asthma.

They go on a spectrum and we call it ATP or atopic dermatitis is X-M-A. And asthma often coexist with that. Many people in my family have autoimmune diseases. My mother has Hashimoto's thyroiditis and autoimmune arthritis. My sister has celiac disease and probably some degree of autoimmune thyroid issues. My cousins and my aunts have, on my mom's side, all have autoimmune disease.

I saw my cousin yesterday. She has Taiwan diabetes. She, there are many people in my, many women in my family who have thyroid issues or glomerary and loneophritis. These are all autoimmune diseases. So that's what I'm really interested in. That's what got me interested was my own autoimmune illness. there are many women in my family who have thyroid issues or glomerulone of fridus. These are all autoimmune diseases. That's what I'm really interested in.

That's what got me interested was my own autoimmune illness and applications for autoimmune illness and weight loss. Personally, for me, it was for autoimmune. So I had X-Mod that was very bad in medical school and residency. In medical school, I did a lot of jujitsu and you can imagine that being on the mats and being sweaty and rolling and wrestling, it flared up a couple of times and got pretty darn bad to the point that I became septic and get a fever and chills and it gets super infected.

So it's a big deal. In residency at the University of Washington, I also had some exome that got so bad that it basically blossoms and covers your whole body when you get this massive immune response. And throughout all of that, I was trying to refine my diet and thinking, I really believe that there are foods that are triggering this. I've always believed that food, and this is almost past I say this, this is completely past I say this, is that food is medicine. That means dream medicine still forgets this, that the food can be a real big trigger for autoimmunity. That fact alone would be paradigm shifting within Western medicine because almost never will a rheumatologist, which is the doctor that generally treats most autoimmune disease, suggests dietary change.

And yet I've seen it hundreds of times now, hundreds of times, the people with autoimmune illness that they are told is intractable, uncurable, and will lead to immunosuppressive agents for their entire life gets better with dietary change. A lot of people I'm seeing are doing animal-based diets that are carnivore or carnivore-ish, but regardless of the dietary change, we know a dietary change can cause massive improvements

in autoimmunity. I suspected the same thing, and I was constantly refining my diet. I had a phase 14 years ago where I was a raw vegan. I did not go well for me. I lost 30 pounds of muscle. I was more than 30 pounds of muscle later than I am now. And I didn't feel good.

I had horrible GI symptoms. I was really not fun to be around in a small confined space because of gas and floating and horrible. Yeah, it was really bad for me. Eventually, I realized that things were not going in the right direction. This wasn't helping me in any way. And I added animal foods back into my diet.

I immediately gained muscle back and felt better. But it took another 10 to 12 years before I realized that maybe I wanted to try and eliminate all plants into my diet. I immediately gained muscle back and felt better, but it took another 10 to 12 years before I realized that maybe I wanted to try and eliminate all plants from my diet. Maybe the small amount of plants that I had left in my diet two years ago was triggering my autoimmunity and believe me, when I thought that, or when I heard Jordan Peterson on Joe Rogan talking

about this, I thought that is crazy because we know, right, We know that we need fiber and we know that these plant nutrients are valuable. So how could it be? We can't eliminate plants from our diet, but I was intrigued. And I kind of started digging in the research. That was beginning of my journey

and the rest of this history. Now two years later, I really have had only limited plant foods, maybe five days in the last two years have had plant foods as part of those experiments with this continuous glucose monitor. And I'm still here to tell about it. I still poop every day.

I don't have consultation. I was gonna ask you, are you constipated because of the fact that without fiber, don't you get people get backed up? No, you're not. You're going the bathroom every day. It's beautiful. Yeah, yeah, it's beautiful.

I joke about it in the book, You know, I'll spare the reader, the photographic proof of it, but I've pooped every morning for the last two years. And there's actually a study that I talk about in the book. That's a pretty famous study at this point in which they had 60 people, they divided them into three groups. All 60 people had what we call idiopathic constipation,

meaning it backed up, it hurts the poop, and we don't know why. We don't know what's causing the constipation. That's what idiopathic means. And they had one group that kept fiber the same, one group that decreased fiber by half, and one group that had zero fiber. So one group had zero fiber like a carnivore diet.

They didn't eat a carnivore diet because I think they were still having zero fiber, plant foods, things like white breadivore diet. They didn't eat a carnivore diet because I think they were still having zero fiber, plant foods, things like white bread with zero fiber, but they had no fiber in their diet. And which group did the best? The zero fiber group completely resolved symptoms of gas floating in constipation, completely 100% of people completely resolved this. And so the dogma, and I break this down, there's a whole chapter in the book about this, about fiber. And then I'm going to go down to fiber.

Tell us now, I'm curious, because a lot of women get consticated number one. Number two, it's like that's like the big, you know, that's like big, that's been one of the overarching themes of nutrition, right? You need to get your fiber, you have for colon cancer cancer reasons for constipation reasons, for overall health. And also, I wanted to even tell you something else, I have really bad exema. And so I know that forever, that the only thing that ever cured it

was getting chorizone shots. To this day. I'm not cured. Exactly. And I still have it. And I'm cured. I mean, this is why it's a fascinating thing because it is all about your diet. And people always put band-aids over your problem and never really get to the source.

But anyway, I'm sorry. I wanted to continue. So, women get constipated a lot more than men maybe are- Men get constated too. I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, I think men and women get constipated. Maybe women don't talk about it as much because, you know, we do have most of each other. If you don't speak about it, go up. Women don't admit to the man that they ever poop in the first place and certainly women

never fart. Yeah, of course. You know, it's like, it's a complete, it's a complete, you know, it's a complete fallacy that women fart. Do any of those things? Absolutely. So in the case that they did or in the case that they ever pooped or got constipated, yeah, we can have the discussion for both men and women.

And if you look at the data, which I present in the book, there's not clear data that fiber prevents constipation. That's just, that's absolutely clear in the book. I have a quote from a study showing that fiber does not prevent constipation. What fiber does is it makes your poops bigger. And it can make them more frequent. Now, people with constipation will know that constipation is more than just not pooping a whole lot. It's pooping that's occasional but painful with bleeding and

use of laxatives. And so when people take fiber, they get bigger poops which are harder to pass and more painful and have more bleeding and more use of laxidus. That doesn't mean you fix the constipation just because you made the bigger with fiber. So in the book, I clearly outlined the research. I talk about that study showing that resolution of constipation was found in 100% of people in the interventional study when they removed fiber. So anyone that's constipated should definitely try and remove all the fiber from their diet and I can't even tell you how often I hear within the people that I work with directly, people in my social media sphere, which is pretty large now, that removing plant foods

and specifically fibers plant foods completely resolved gas, loading, and other GI issues. So it's really pretty earth shattering and paradigm shifting. You brought up a couple of other points. It came from. It came from a guy named Dennis Berket, who was a surgeon in the 1960s, and he went to Tanzania. And at that time, I think that in the surgery world in the 1960s, we were starting to understand that people sometimes have diverticulosis, which is the outpouching of the mucosal layers of the colon, the end of the intestines, through the muscular layers.

And they make these little small appendices, these little blind loops in the colon. They look like little little skin tags on the colon. And people may know that diverticulosis which is the formation of those diverticuli can lead to diverticulitis which is when they get infected and closed up akin to appendicitis the appendix is a blind loop. It's in a different place. It's kind of in the see-com which is the beginning part of the large intestine but the large intestine starts on the right side goes up goes across goes, and then ends up in the rectum. And you can get diverticuli across the whole thing.

So, Birken and his fellow surgeons were wondering, why do we see more diverticulosis, or so much diverticulosis, in westernized populations? Well, he goes to Tanzania, and he sees the people in Tanzania who, in the 1960s, were kind of at a mix of indigenous hunter-gatherers and somewhat of westernization, but they were eating lots more fiber than us and having really big poops and they didn't have diverticulosis to the degree that we do and he said, aha, it's fiber. Fiber prevents diverticulosis, of course. That's just an observation. That's what we call a correlation. You can't say that a correlation is causative until you do the experiment. And when he came back to the States,

he just, that's been the narrative for the last 50 years with diverticulosis. And then I think it kind of bled over into constipation that, oh, everybody knows that if you eat more fiber, you have bigger poops, therefore it fixes constipation. But if you look at the literature, it doesn't. It just, it fixes constipation. But if you look at the literature, it doesn't. It just makes them bigger and more painful. If you look at the literature with regard to these diverticulitis, those who eat the

most fiber have the most diverticulosis in the Western world. That's paradigm shifting as well. We're saying, oh, Dennis Berkett was really wrong for 70 years. That's been the case. It's very clear now within gastrointestinal medicine that fiber does not prevent diverticulosis, and the absence of fiber does not cause diverticulosis. So then people will say, well, what causes diverticulosis?

I think that there's emerging literature to suggest that diverticulosis is an autoimmune disease. So here we are back to square one. So many of the chronic diseases that we experience as humans today are autoimmune. And that explains, that's a possible explanation for why people in Tanzania in the 1960s were not having diverticulosis

because they weren't eating processed sugar, processed carbohydrates, processed vegetable oils. That was when those foods became the center of our diet in the West. And those are probably the most triggering foods for people. The majority of them, those are plant foods. Certainly, there's a way to eat a plant, include plants in your diet that are not processed. But those processed foods are probably what's really causing diverticulosis, process sugar, process carbohydrates, and process vegetable oils.

And so, Birkett observes, and he makes this correlation, but it's not causative. And when it gets tested, he's completely wrong, but it's become scanced in the consciousness of our culture for 60 years, incorrectly. And then, you asked earlier about cancer, and this one is also deeply seated in our consciousness, and is 100% wrong. There are multiple studies that are interventional studies published in the New England Journal of Medicine and other journals, a 99 in 2000 and 2001, clearly showing these are thousands of patients getting more fruits and vegetables in their diet and fiber supplementation over

the course of four or eight years they were followed and they looked for colon cancer recurrence. So these are people who had pre-cancerous adenomas in the colon or they had colon cancer and then they did colonoscopy over the following four to eight years to look if we give you more fruit and vegetables or we give you a fiber supplement do you have less colon cancer recurrence? No difference. Didn't make a lick of difference. In some cases, it actually went up with more fiber and more food and vegetables. So, there's really not a single interventional study to show that fiber offense colon cancer.

And yeah, at this point, I hope the listener is just going, I've been lied to because we really have, and the list goes on and on with regard to almost every claim that we think in the general media with regard to fiber. But yeah, colon cancer, no evidence, fiverticulosis, potentially harmful, constipation, no benefits to fiber. I'm living proof and thousands of others are living proof. You don't need fiber to poop. Often constipation is a completely different issue having to do with either neurologic dysfunction or

dysbiosis, the overgrowth of the wrong type of bacteria with loss of microbial diversity. People may have heard of SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or methane predominant SIBO often causes constipation and that's not something that something that gets worse with fiber in most people. And the last thing people hear about with fiber is, you need fiber for a healthy microbiome. Yeah. This is completely predicated on, you know, on a falsehood, which is the assumption that we know

what a healthy microbiome is. And you absolutely do not need fiber for a healthy microbiome. Furthermore, we don't even know what a healthy microbiome is. We can't look at one's feet season, say, fiber increases lactobacillus or bifidobacteria, therefore that's a healthy bacteria and you need fiber to get that, which is not true at all because I'll see people on a carnivore diet and do GI tests all the time and I see people with high lactobacillus and low lactobacillus eating the same diet. The GI microbiome is much more complex than

we believe. There are also studies in the HODSA and hunter-gatherer groups in Africa who eat more fiber than the average American who don't even have bifidobacteria in the microbiome. So how can we say this is a healthy organism to have in our microbiome when these people that are often held up

as a paragon of microbial health, you know, people say, all they have is really high microbial diversity and alpha diversity. They don't even have bifido bacteria. So I'll just close with the, I'll just close, I know I'm rambling, but I'll just close with the notion that if you look at alpha diversity, that's the thing that often people will say,

oh, you need a lot of alpha diversity and you've got microbiome. And fiber increases alpha diversity. No, look at the interventional studies. There are multiple studies I cite in the book that show increasing fiber in the diet doesn't increase alpha diversity, and removing fiber doesn't decrease alpha diversity.

The alpha diversity, the number of different microbial species in your gut, doesn't appear to have anything to do with the amount of fiber in your gut. It probably has more to do with your overall gut health. It's an interconnected web and an ecosystem, and I may have to do with gut inflammation more than anything, because when your gut isn't flamed, this gets into the colloquial idea of leaky gut,

the permeability of the gastrointestinal endothelium, when your gut isn't flamed, then your microbial diversity goes down. And it's a little bit of chicken and egg, but I think it goes, it's five-directional that when your gut is inflamed, your immune system changes your microbial diversity, you get shifts in the populations of the gut flora,

but so that's the, that's the marylane version of five or debunk. Well, no, no, okay, that case, but let me ask, because I've got, I'm like, you have so much info that I have to start. Like, first of all, you said that you did the raw vegan diet and you didn't work for you. What other diets did you try before landing on the carbon bor diet?

That's my first part of the question. Second of all, you talk about hunters and gatherers going back to that, that the way that they lived a little bit, but did they eat nut seeds, fruits, like, what, didn't they, isn't that the paleo diet? We can talk about it. Yeah, we can talk about it. Great question. So, I tried a lot of different times. So, I was raw vegan for seven months and, unless anyone tell me I was doing it wrong, I was pretty religious about it. I was pretty dedicated.

Yeah, and I don't think I was doing it wrong. And again, I had horrible GI symptoms. I was in no way shape or form good from a gastrointestinal perspective with a mountain of fiber in my gut. And like I said, I just saw a post today, one of my friends sent me a kind of a tongue and cheek post on Instagram.

Somebody said, five ways to combat bloating on a vegan diet. I mean, I think anyone that post today one of my friends sent me a kind of a tongue-in-cheek post on Instagram somebody said Five ways to combat bloating on a vegan diet I mean I think anyone that eats a lot of fruits and vegetables know that you're gonna be fart and Within and you're bloated there are like that is Any Like a huge I love fruit, but the truth is the more fruit the more cost cost of it you do get. It's also that. People like, you'll be like crooping all day. Actually, no.

I will add too many blueberries and not crooping for a week. And people also know that if you eat too many cherries, you end up pooping. That's like cherry. So yeah, I mean, I didn't make cherry. I like cherry. What do you mean, cherry? I mean, that's just something I've experienced personally and other people have told me they experience.

If you eat too many cherries, I think if you eat too much fruit in general, you will, some people will get diarrhea. So fruit, too much fruit is not good for the GI tract. It doesn't lead to like healthy, satisfying, easy poop. And everybody knows it was a really satisfying, but nobody talks about it. No, it's not. It's good to actually poop. I think all of this is like a gyrus thing.

I think because even like the food guide, right, is so how it is, what people say the food guide is, is so counterintuitive to what really works, right? So people just like remember what they learned as a kid or what they're bought. You saw it a commercial and that becomes like what's kind of stamped in your brain, right? Yeah, we are ruled by our conditioning.

And I hope that with a lot of the stuff that I talk about in general, that the listeners, the watchers, the viewers will be able to move beyond their conditioning and realize when they're conditioning and their sort of, their formed habits and their preformed beliefs are limiting what they're imagining because our paradigm of what is normal or good or is shaped by our history and a lot of

it is not based on literature. I can't even tell you how many people will say to me like, you can't eat an army diet. That's not good for you. And I think have you reviewed the literature because I would love to talk about some science with you. Anyway, let's talk about that. What's it? It's top of the other diets that you tried before you landed on this.

And then talk about the paleo for the hunter. Like, why not paleo then? Like why not? Go ahead. Yeah, exactly. So I was raw vegan. Even before I was raw vegan, I was kind of like low fat, not a lot of processed food. After raw vegan, I was paleo, pretty much organic paleo, strictly for many years, many years,

maybe eight or nine years. And then when the exima continued, I did autoimmune paleo to the n-stigrete. And that was eventually paleo. So autoimmune paleo starts to look like a carnivore diet. It says which of the plants on a paleo diet are potentially the most triggering to the immune system. So this notion that plants can trigger the immune system is not foreign. People are familiar with discussions around gluten. Well, gluten is a lectin.

There's a whole chapter in the book on lectins and lectins can trigger the immune system. And a lot of the foods that are from the plant kingdom and some of the foods in the animal kingdom, specifically milk, contain lectins that can trigger the immune system. So foods triggering the immune system is not a foreign concept. We just don't realize how widely distributed foods, especially in the plant kingdom, can be that can trigger the immune system. So it's plant-use-dehydrous. Well, it's up in the diet.

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eczema that was pretty bad or maybe a few mushrooms I had a phase where I was into medicinal mushrooms and I was eating things like chaga, racie or lion's mane and I had some of the worst eczema in my life. You know, head to toe axiom at one point when I was in residency. So it's pretty intense what those diets were trying to fix and what I went through along the process. But I tried so many different things. And I tried whole 30, which I think is kind of an incarnation of paleo. I tried, I was macabreionics for a little while.

That didn't work very well. So there's not many diets that are out there that I haven't tried in all these combinations of plant foods. So your question is well taken, I'll answer that question about which plant foods are least toxic, and then I'll get to the paleolithic answer for you. But in the book, so in chapter 12, I talk about different tiers of a carnivore diet and the whole preface of the plant talks and argument that I'm making in the book is that plants are rooted in the ground. They can't run away. All life on earth is kind of existing to pass its genetic material to the next

generation and some organisms are mobile and are poisonous like caterpillars or insects or some animals have teeth or claws or hooves, or can run away. They have defense mechanisms. But plants are stuck in the ground, and so the only way that plants and animals have coexisted for 450 million years is for plants to really develop this kind of arms race of chemicals. And if you look deeply into botany, there are hundreds of thousands

million of chemicals in plants that are what we call phyto-Alexins. They're plant-defense chemicals. They don't seem to serve a role in plant biochemistry other than to act as chemical spikes and to sway insect animals fungus from using that plant as lunch. And that's the reason, that's the way it's always been, right? This is a circle of life. This is an ecosystem. An organism has to evade a predator, and it has to have some sort of symbiosis. So the parts of plants that tend, this is broad statements, but the parts of plants that tend to be most toxic are the leaves, the stems, the seeds, which are the plant babies, that's how the plant reproduces and the roots. What did I leave out?

The fruit. So when you're looking at plants, the fruit are the, they're kind of the part that the plant wants animals to eat. So they'll make them sweet, they'll make them brightly colored, they're kind of like a pinup girl, but the plant doesn't want the animal to eat all of the seeds in the fruit They want the animal to eat the fruit poop the fruit out in a pile of poop Which is a very nice set of fertilizer, but not completely destroyed a seed so that the plant can move on They're pretty ingenious so in general

Fruit and a lot of vegetables that we think of are actually fruit the seed moving parts of plants tend to have less toxins now again, again, it's very individual, and there's some need for people to kind of determine this and discern which are which of the fruits may even be triggering to them. But I would say that I'm pretty radical by saying that things like broccoli and kale, cauliflower and colored greens do not want to get eaten. They do not love you back, and they are probably colored greens do not want to get eaten. They do not love you back, and they are probably at the root of an enormous amount of suffering in humans.

And I go into all of that in the book. I talk about plant toxins that occur across many of these parts of plants that are separate from the fruit. I talk about isophysocyanates and brassic abeditables, many of the ones I just mentioned. I talk about lectins, which are primarily in the seeds and can be in the roots. I talk about many of these plant defense chemicals oxalates often occur in the seeds or the roots of plants. And they're generally, they're either storage molecules for plants that don't play well with our biology

that we don't have in human biology because we are sort of a different operating system. Or they're just meant to be chemical spikes to say, hey, stop eating me. And that's that's kind of a foreign concept because right now we're told, yeah, right now we're told that the best thing you can do is just kale smoothie all day long. And I think that all too often that's going to cause hypothyroidism. It's going to trigger the immune system. It's certainly at the root. I think of a lot of autoimmune thyroid disease. It's going to lead to iodine deficiency. And it's going to cause a lot of gas.

Another nutrient deficiency, and it's not good for humans. And why would it be? It's a plant leaf. It doesn't want to get eaten. It's not saying eat me. It's saying get away from me. And animals know this. I mean, if you give too much kale to a horse,

it'll just stop eating it. It'll throw up. And if you look at the way that animals that are even herbivorous animals, which has that meat, they eat exclusively plants. All right. So herbivorous animals like cows or horses, things like that, that eat exclusively plants or sheep grazing animals,

they even know that there's a spectrum of plant toxicity. And if you put them in a paddock with only one kind of plant, a lot of them will get sick and die, or they're mass extinction, they're mass deaths of wild animals and grazing animals when they've been confined to paddocks that are too small, because what they want to do when they graze, they eat a little bit of this plant,

a little bit of that plant, a little bit of that plant, because they realize there are toxins distributed in those plants. Now these herbivore animals that have evolved exclusively eating plants have a better ability to detoxify the toxins than we do, I believe. But even within that ability, they're limited. They can't eat grass exclusively or you know certain plants, they won't just eat them at infinitum or else they will experience massive problems.

So that's the issue here is that you have different parts of plants that are more toxic, generally the fruit are less toxic, but a lot of things we think about as vegetables are actually fruit, things like squash, avocado, olives, cucumber, they're carrying the seed, they're a fruit, they're not a sweet fruit, but again in the book in what I call a tier one carnivore diet or a carnivory diet, and in the cookbook that I'll be releasing, we are cooking foods with those least toxic plant foods. Rather than what I believe in what I think the literature says are the more toxic parts of plants, the leaves, the stale enzymes, seeds. Keep coming back. You got plenty of space. The hit series returns with Jeremy Allen White and the Golden Globe winning role of

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It's not your friend. Oh my God. Okay, so how about avocado? Everyone talks about how the fat, you know, it's a great fat for you. It's great for your brain and health, all that stuff. You know, believe in that, even. Avocado is a fruit. No, I know.

So I'm saying you think also that avocado, even with the stat content that's supposed to be really great for your brain, for inflammatory reasons, you don't like that either. No, I think avocado, I think avocado is one of the plant foods that's less toxic because it's a fruit. Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

So you're saying the fruit, okay. So I was gonna ask you to the other side of it, what are some other ones that are better than the other? So broccoli, cauliflower, kale, bad, what's good? Avocado is better. Avocado, berries, squash, things like that. The fruits, the fruits and the non-sweet fruit. So people will have to decide which fruit they can handle,

but non-sweet fruit. So people will have to decide which fruit they can handle, but non-sweet fruit and sweet fruit. So berries, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, apples. I mean, apples are probably fine for most people. It's a fruit. The plant is trying to get you to eat it. Now, should you over consume fruit? I think a lot of people as they over consume the sweet fruit, they will get GI side effects. But I think that there's less of these overt plant toxins in the fruit of plants. And like I said, a lot of the fruit of plants is not sweet, like squash, winter squash,

or summer squash, things like butternut squash, kabocha squash, acorn squash. These are fruit. They're not actually stems, leaves, or seeds. Now you asked about nuts and, or you asked about nuts and seeds. And I think that, and the paleo diet. Yeah, that's a good segue. I think this is where a lot of people get

tripped up that we believe that seeds and nuts are good for us, but they're still seeds. So nuts, seeds, grains and beans are all seeds. They're all the plants reproductive parts. They're all the babies and those are some of the most highly defended parts of plants. Now I think a lot of people will, well today will be like, oh, grains aren't good for me. Okay, great, yes, you get it. The grains are not good for you, but neither in my opinion are seeds and nuts or beans. And people lose their mind when I say,

beans aren't good for you. Oh, that's fine, but what we already talked about, five, and if you look at how much havoc beans wreak on people's guts and the amount of lectins that are in beans and how toxic beans are when they're raw, you'll realize these are not good food. The plant doesn't want you eating its seeds, which are beans for these, you know, these leguminous plants. So nuts are the same way.

A lot of nuts are very toxic evolutionarily, and some of them we've been able to hybridize and make them less toxic. Almonds a couple hundred years ago were so toxic, and we hybridized the hydrosanic acid out of them, but an almond tree doesn't want you eating its almond. And I ate so many almonds and almond flour and almond dishes when I was a vegan. And I mean, this is my experience, but I think it's been replicated over and over. Like, it's horrible for your digestion, even if you sprout it. Even if you sprout it, it's just, it's a seed.

It doesn't want to get eaten. It has so many digestive enzyme inhibitors, oxalates, whiteic acid that buy nutrients. They don't want to get eaten. And then the last part are the seeds, the nuts are not great for digestion. I think that if people cut out nuts and seeds and grains and legumes and the leafy greens,

yeah, send me a postcard when your gut feels amazing. Like, I don't believe me, but just try it because those are what are wreaking havoc on sony hul's guts. And let's talk about the Paleo-licanthesers. I mean, the Paleo diet, which was originally designed by Lauren Corden, I had them on my podcast to kind of debate him. You know, again, it's a made up thing.

There's no such thing as a Paleo diet. But, you know, his idea was that our paleolithic ancestors existed on mostly nuts and seeds, the dinee grains, the dinee beans, and the dinee dairy, and they ate meat and nuts and seeds. But I debate that because nuts and seeds have the same toxins as grains and legumes. Again, they're all the same part of plant, which is a seed. And we talked about it. If you look at most nuts, they're going to cause major GI issues for most people. And for me, and for a lot of people, any nut, even a coconut is going to cause issues for people. When I was in medical school, I used to make coconut milk myself by taking shredded coconut, putting it in a blender and then through a cheese cloth.

And this is just anecdotal, but my personal experience is that my gut felt horrible. It just felt, I felt nauseous and it felt slow. When I would eat real coconut milk made from coconuts and then low on behold when you do the research even coconut has digestive enzyme inhibitors and then and it makes sense. This is a plant seed. So coconut like eating it just face like raw coconut is bad for you too. I love that stuff. That's probably not doing you any favors. Now again we get to the point where we're talking what works in your life right. I don't like to be so dogmatic about this that I say don't ever eat it again, but I want

people to realize that a lot of the foods that we believe are healthy are probably sabotaging our efforts to feel good to digest their other foods. So what I'm saying is that if you're eating raw coconut with other foods, it's inhibiting the digestion of those other foods. You're going to absorb less nutrients from the fruit or the meat or the eggs that you're eating When you eat them with coconut because that coconut has digestive enzymes inhibitors and people But one of us know that we don't feel good after we eat but we don't think about it intentionally or Granular enough manner to say I felt badly to coconut because we feel bad almost every meal the most of the time.

You know, you ate coconut at one meal and almond and another meal and kale and broccoli and another meal. Well, three meals a day, you got gas and you felt crappy, you know, literally, and then you think, oh, it's just my stomach. It's something wrong with me. Well, no, the majority of people, and this is what's so interesting about an animal-based diet, is empowering people to realize you don't have to be full carnivore, but think about the spectrum of toxicity and think about the fact that this may not be anything wrong with you. It's just the fact that so many of the foods that we think are the healthiest foods are foods that are some of the worst for us or worse for our digestion. And let's go back and talk about the paleolithic data because that's how the book begins. So there's

a conceptualization that hunter-gatherers eat these foods, but if you really look at the data, they don't. They don't eat that much at all. So when I was talking to Lauren Cordein and his group, they admitted that they were talking to an anthropologist recently who was in the Amazon studying a tribe there that was previously uncontacted by humans, and the tribe basically ate meat and fruit. They didn't go digging up roots unless they were starving, and they're not eating about just seeds and nuts and things like that.

Now, there are tribes that eat things like magongo nuts, but generally speaking, these are not a huge part of diets. And the suggestion that I make a hypothesis that I offer in the book is that traditionally, evolutionarily, if you go back more than a few hundred years, which is all we really know in recorded history, the anthropologic evidence, the stable isotope data, which I can talk about, suggests that we were eating mostly meat and that these plant foods were really probably only used as fallback foods.

So you can imagine evolutionarily, yeah, we probably ate some plants 50,000 years ago, 100,000 years ago, 200,000 years ago, a million years ago, but what if we only ate the plants when our tribe didn't take down a woolly mammoth? It's good to have the ability to eat some plants in a pinch, but you don't want to eat them every day if you don't have to. And then the other thing I'll say is I'll challenge the listener to think about how often they've been in the wilderness and seen lots of edible delicious, beautiful plants around. And they may not know what's edible and what's not, but I'll tell you that almost anywhere in the world that you go, 99.9%

of what you see in the wilderness will hurt you or kill you or give you horrible diarrhea. There's very little that's edible in the wilderness unless it's the spring or the fall and there are specific fruits out there. There's so much chocolate out there. Okay, so just like you prefer, sounds to me, you prefer fruit over vegetables, basically. I do, I do, yes. Fruit or vegetables. Even though fruit has a lot of sugar in it.

Yes, and if you look at the way that people react to sugar, which you can do with something like a continuous glucose monitor, it's, I think that it's been the sugar and fruit that has been conflated with the sugar that is in processed food. So I don't think the sugar and fruit, which is packaged in a whole food, which has sort of signaling molecules to tell your body what to do with it, or the sugar and honey for that matter, which acts very differently in the body than a process

sugar like high fructose corn syrup. So people might think of honey as pure sugar, but real raw organic honey has a completely different physiologic profile in the human body at the molecular level, at the oxidative level, at the level of our arteries, and processed sugar like high fructose corn syrup. So those two get conflated a lot. And I appreciate that people are trying to eliminate sugar, but you know, it's individual as well. Some people feel like, oh, if I eat too much fruit, it makes my gut feel bad or it triggers my candida. Well, if that's a special case, then you may not want to eat those sweet fruits. You could do a starchy food or just eliminate the majority of carbohydrates from your diet. But, you know, a lot of the sugar in fruit is fructose and then the sugar in starch and other starchic carbohydrates are glucose polymers

Which are not as much fructose. So there's ways to get fruit like squash, right like avocado Don't have a lot of fructose in them. So it doesn't always mean that and people can decide what they what works with their body But yeah, I think that that type of fruit sugar has been incorrectly vilified more from our guest but first a few words from our sponsor But yeah, I think that type of fruit sugar has been incorrectly vilified. How are we? We're completed. More from our guest, but first a few words from our sponsor. So do you want your team to develop habits that will help them thrive? You need rise.com. The all-in-one online training system employees love. Rise makes online training easy to create, enjoyable to take, and simple to manage.

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Absolutely. I'm going to go to the back. Absolutely. I do, but I'll tell you some caveats. Okay. So I think that when people do this, if they want to try an animal-based diet, which doesn't have to be, again, all animals, or if you want to make a significant amount of your diet animal-based or a significant amount of your diet, carnivore.

I think that most people will find that red meat and ruminants, cows, bison, buffalo, lamb are just better. They just taste better. They're a little fatier. We definitely are going to crave the fat. And you can eat the chicken in the turkey if you want, but again, I'm always an advocate for eating nose to tail, which is what our ancestors have always done. And there are unique nutrients partitioned throughout the animal that we need to think

about that are very hard to get in plants. And there's so many rabbit holes to go down, this is such an interesting conversation. But to your point, chicken and turkey, they're fine. Just I don't think they're as good. They're just not as enjoyable. That's a weight loss for fat loss for people to like who are watching their, you know, red meat is not going to cause waking. It's only going to cause waking if you're having with red wine and mashed potatoes, right? Right. Yeah. But in a bun, in a bun with, yeah, with some cheese on it and some mayonnaise made of vegetable oil. Right.

Right. So there's a lot of nuance here. I have to really be, we have to be intentional about what we're, or what sort of correlations we're actually making. And in terms of the fish, I think fish is great and probably was consumed by our coastal ancestors, but today is quite polluted. And if you look at benthic fish, shellfish, mollusks, bottom feeders, they're pretty darn contaminated these days, and we've kind of done this. It's just everything that goes into our atmosphere eventually ends up in the ocean.

And so I think that at this point in human history, the unfortunate truth is that land animals are much cleaner than seafood. Tony Robbins is a great example of this. He was a pescatarian and got heavy metal toxicity. He's talked about this openly. And I really caution people against pescatarian diets. And I know they're doing it because they believe it's the right thing to do, but I think that they're being misled about red meat and how they're being misled about the idea that it's even bad for you at

all. I think that that, again, I break it all down in the book. It's lots of deep rabbit holes, but there's really no good evidence that red meat is bad for humans, and there's plenty of interventional studies that say it's quite good for us, and it doesn't make sense for it to be bad for us. We have not been existing on sardines and shrimp for two million years. And Samu, we just didn't. We took down the Holy Mammoths and we ate bison and we ate buffalo and we ate elk.

We've been eating red meat for millions of years. Why do I have to be bad for us? Why is it suddenly bad for us? That this doesn't make any sense. So people need to be very careful with what they're listening to and what data those people are talking about. So much of that data is misleading epidemiology, which makes the same mistake that Dennis Berkett did. It's talking about correlation rather than causation. So if you're going to do seafood, just be careful of the heavy metal content. A lot of my clients

end up with heavy metal issues if they have significant amounts of seafood in their diet. It's true. I mean, I'm one of those people. I have huge mercury. I felt like I had mercury poisoning because of all the tuna. And probably did. Yeah, and people don't realize that if they eat too much of that as well. Like, nothing that, you know, what it's about the whole idea is like eating too much of one thing is not good. Like, have you some kind of moderation? You have a little bit of this, you have a little bit of that. You don't believe in that obviously. You're all in on animal, right? On animal protein. Right. Why would we do? Let's just back up a step and think, why would we want? That's not an idea. Makes sense. Let's eat a little bit of this, a little bit of

that. The reason we would do that is to get nutrient variety. Sure, sure, sure, sure, it can give us entertainment or it's, it's intellectual variety, right? Which we can talk about. I was just an intellectual and also like the psychologically you get not getting bored of being the same thing over and over again. Right, right. And we can talk about that. Yeah. From a nutrient level, this is one of the most striking things that I've discovered on my

nutritional research. Right. We can get, we can get every single nutrient that we need to thrive as humans from nose to tail animal foods, not just the steak, right? Talking nose to tail animal foods. And talk about that. What is that? Like, give us, because I know you say organs, give me an example. I want to know in a day what you're eating.

Like, give me a sample of what this nose to tail is. Right. It's a lot of what this knows to tail is. Right. It's lots of ways to do it. So say you and I are in a tribe with some of our listeners and we're going to go out and hunt an elk, right? And we were grateful to the natural world that it provides us with an elk. Are we just going to eat the backstrap or the haunches with the meat and leave everything else? No. I mean, we might in 2020 if we didn't elk because we've grown up grossed out of the organs, but our ancestors didn't. They ate every single bit of that

animal. And again, this is where we bump up very squarely against conditioning. And I'll challenge people to think like, all right, just what would it be like? And you don't have to think about eating all the grossest little bits, but our ancestors did. And academically, it's an interesting conversation because if you look at the distribution of nutrients in that animal, it's very, it's diverse. And when you eat the liver in addition to the muscle meat, you get unique nutrients that are not found in muscle meat. Things like folate, riboflavin, biotin, a little more vitamin K2, coline. These are represented somewhat in muscle meat, but not too enough to get all that we need. And then if you look for those critical nutrients in plant foods, they're almost non-existent. Good luck, good luck getting enough rive of flavoured from plants.

You're supposed to be the most healthy thing in the world to eat, right? Like that's like... I think it is. It's not a filter. It's not a filter. The liver has biochemical transformation systems, end-amatic systems that take toxins and ready them for excretion in the stool in the urine. The liver doesn't store them. You don't end up at your life with this galvanized, toxic liver. That's just eating you from the

inside out. If you're healthy, you have a healthy liver. You don't take and store the toxins. It excreats the toxins. It excreats the toxins. So yes, in terms of any one animal food, there are a few organs that very few of us are used to eating liver, spleen, kidney that are incredibly nutritious and have been treasured by generations of our ancestors. And a lot of tribes liver is sacred and it's even raw and immediately.

And I can tell people are probably making the u-face and they're saying, I will never eat liver. And I think that's fine. There are lots of ways to get this. You can do desiccated organ supplements. But if you're not going to eat liver and you're serious about your health, know what nutrients are in liver that you're missing. And know where you get them in other places.

Because good luck, like I said, good luck getting enough full-late, you know, full-late is not a great example, but I don't think the folate in plant foods is very bioavailable. Rhyboslavins are great example, which is vitamin B2, which is critical for methylation. You really cannot get enough rhyboslavin in the plant kingdom. You really will have a very tough time

getting bioavailable amounts of, or adequate amounts of bioavailable vitamin A, which is the red null form of vitamin A in plant foods. We can get vitamin A in plant foods, but in beta carotene and the literature, if you look at the literature, you need 19 units of beta carotene to make one usable unit of redinal vitamin A. And that's in a normal human without polymorphisms in the enzymatic system that converts beta carotene to vitamin A. I was going to be a good form. Vision, hormonal health, skin health.

I mean, so many of these nutrients do 300 things in the human body. So I could say immune health, skin health, vision, hormonal health, sexual health, for almost all these, whether it's iron, B12, riboflavin, they're all involved. They've all got their fingers everywhere because we're a complex machine. It's not like vitamin A fits in in my left ear. Vitamin A is necessary to hear out of your left ear. Vitamin A is necessary for proper vision, proper teeth, proper gum formation, dental health, bone formation, sleep, recovery, hormones, sexual health.

It goes on and on. And the same is true for so many of these nutrients that are very hard to obtain from plant foods. So when I'm saying those to tail, it's very challenging for people. And I have a video that I'll post on YouTube, I was actually gonna post it today, so by the time this podcast comes out, I imagine people can go to my Instagram,

a carnivore MD, or my YouTube channel, which is under my name, Paul Saladino MD, and see this video of what I eat in a day. And I eat two meals a day. So earlier today, you said, do you eat meat for snack and breakfast lunch and dinner? And the answer is yes, sort of. I only eat two meals a day. I don't eat snacks. I'm so full between the meals and I have a compressed eating window. So after this podcast, you do intermittent fasting? Yeah, just because I'm so full, I'm so satiated. So I got up this morning and ate breakfast around 8.30

and after this podcast is done at 2.30 or 3, I'll eat my second meal of the day and that'll be it for the day. So I'll have a 16 to 18 hour fasting window and that's not really, I'm not suffering to get through that. I like eating window to be earlier in the day for better sleep. I've talked to my friend Max Lugavir about this all the time

insulin and melatonin are competing hormones. You don't want to eat late at night. It's not good for your circadian rhythms. So, I'll eat two meals a day and I don't even snack. So yes, I will eat animal foods, two meals a day, with no snacks in between. I'll be pretty much completely full between the hose and not hungry when I go to sleep. Although those meals look about the same, and those meals are pretty much like you and I and some of our listeners were out in the woods,

we're hunting an animal, we get an animal, and we're gonna eat that animal. So I'm gonna eat some muscle meat, and I'm gonna eat some organs if I've got them. And usually I try to keep well stocked in organs. Now, the organs that I eat will be very unfamiliar to people, so just please check the social condition or the conditioning, as you hear me say this and in the video

I talk about this but I'll eat everything I can I'll eat liver and then I'll eat more exotic organs like pancreas or spleen or thymus, a testicle, heart, bone marrow is not completely crazy bone, bone meal, bone marrow, bone broth, I'll eat some egg yolks. And then in the last few weeks, I've been experimenting with honey. So people don't need to dogmatically accept that a carnivore diet or believe that a carnivore diet must be ketogenic or low carb. I've been kind of playing around with honey.

It's maybe a plant food, maybe not a plant food, it kind of comes from flowers and it's fermented by bees, who knows. But like I said, I've got this continuous glucose monomer on, been watching my blood sugars and feeling pretty good with honey. And that's pretty much what I eat. So I have bone broth, meat, salt, organs, egg yolks, and feel pretty good with that, you know, it's again two years. I know that's what Sal said. I think somebody

Sal or somebody from Mind Pump joke, I don't even know Oregon meets because I'm not a serial killer. That's right. And that pull her up against, right? So that's really my passion right now is finding ways to help people get more organs in their diet because I think that's what's missing. From 2020, that's what I believe strongly is that however we can get organ meets in our diet

is going to increase our health in a very unique way and so many of the nutritional deficiencies that we suffer from, whether it's iron, or folate, or riboflavin, or coline, or vitamin K2, or vitamin A, this goes on and on. They're very richly represented in organ foods. So I've got a supplement company now that makes desiccated organ supplements, which are an easy way to go. What's desiccated works in supplements which are an easy way for you. What is that? What's desiccated organ supplements?

Like freeze dried? Oh my gosh. So what do they make like pancreas supplements? Or you can do pancreas, liver, thymus, everything. And you put in a pill so you can just swallow the organ that way to help people get the nutrients in that way. So even though you said that it's not the best source to obviously eating it from a food, a food right like getting it in supplement

form doesn't really. Well, it's still a food in the supplement. You're desiccating it. So what's interesting is desiccation is low temperature freeze drying. So it's low temperature dehydration. So you take the organ, you take a real liver and you put it in a machine that lowers the pressure and then lowers the temperature and you can desiccate it so you can pull the water out and make desiccated liver and preserve more of the nutrients than you would if you were dehydrating it. So it's kind of like a dehydrated supplement so it's still a real organ, it's like a new pill.

And there's nothing else. You don't press it into a pill with like binaur's or fill as you just put it in the capsule. Vitamin water just dropped a new zero sugar flavor called with love. as you just put in the capsule. Zero sugar, nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O. We did it. I still can't believe we got this project done so fast and so well. When I'm in New York.

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Or brainstorming next steps here. It all just happens on the Miro board. Exactly, and it's nice not having to wait an entire day to get sign off from this guy. Hey! Well, it is true. See how Miro users save up to 80 hours every year by meeting less and doing more. Get on board at Miro.com. The first three boards are free. Forever. That's M-I-R-O.com. So, okay, are you single? Are you married? Which is your personal life?

My personal life? Like, her single. Now you don't want it. You just say, is it your girlfriend, wife, feet like this too, with the pancreas and the liver? Well, the liver size is bad. Like, I grew up, my parents ate tongue, they ate liver. I've never really heard of spleen and pancreas though,

or some of the other things that you mentioned. Well, sweetbreads is pancreas and thymus. That's a tradition. Oh yeah, that's sweet. Sweetbreads. If you go back a few generations, and almost every ethnic lineage, you'll find that your ancestors ate organ meats.

Yeah, no, you're right. It's just like every time I look at it. Yeah, I remember, as I said, as a kid, that there were chopped livers really big in my culture. But OK, so then let me just ask you something. So you wake up, what time do you wake up normally? Do you wake up at like what time are you normally waking up? 6 or 7? OK, you don't eat till 8.30.

And then how you prepare these foods? How do you make do you make a split? You know, how do you make pancreas or you know, a testicle? How are you, how are you starting a testicle? I'm really curious about that. There's lots of ways to do it. You can make a stew or you can put it in the crock pot or you can bake it or you can pan fry it. Yeah, whatever I'm feeling that day, sometimes I'll just do liver shooters where I just kind of eat frozen liver raw and just kind of shoot up It's the easiest way to do it, but yeah, lots of things That's why we've got the cookbook coming out to help people get the more organs in their diet

I probably don't understand how to cook them and how to incorporate them But that's also where the supplements come in to just to help people but again Yes, the way that our ancestors have done this has been lost. And there's so many unique nutrients in these foods. And these peptides also, you know, I'm good friends with Ben Greenfield. And I talk all the time about peptides. And everybody wants to talk about peptides and BPC 157 or LL37, well, those occur naturally in organ foods. We're just so fine you said that. I was just going to be doing a podcast on peptides. Because I feel like it's becoming a big trend right now for people.

Like I don't know what it is, but the ones that I would hear more about are the ones for weight loss, statics, CJC, 1295. Have you heard of that one? Yeah, yeah. And some of them are synthetic, but a lot of them occur naturally in the human body. Right. And you see 157, LL37, these occur in the human body. Splenin, Tuftsins, Splenipentin, Hepsiidin, Leap2, there's hundreds of peptides in animal foods. They're actually occurring. It naturally occurring, and I think that's the thing.

You know, BBC 157 is in the lining of the stomach. So in Hispanic cultures, they ate ripe. They ate stomach and haggis is a a Scottish dish, which stomach and again, everybody makes the ooface and then our conditioning limits are long-term health and so people make just that they can supplement, but it's interesting to think about how to do it. And for me, those ancestral ideals are so critical,

it's just so meaningful to me. And again, not everybody has to eat the degree of organs that I eat. There's many pieces to this message, but the underlying truth is that, these animal foods have been incorrectly vilified. They're full of unique nutrients and don't figure them.

And plant foods are not as benign as we've been told. So what are the different styles? Like you said here, the different styles of eating carnivore was a thing in your book. When and how, like when to eat it, how much to eat it, what to eat, like for someone who's just listening to this and they're curious, and they're ready to eat me.

How do they up to the next level without going so extreme like you? I would recommend that they think about the most toxic plant foods. Start with your symptoms. If somebody's eating any diet and feels amazing, has perfect poops, tons of libido and recovering well and body composition, who am I to tell them how to eat? Like, whatever you're doing, keep doing it. That's amazing.

But for people who are suffering, who have autoimmune disease or root issues or fatigue or sleep issues or who are libido or body composition issues, or persistent autoimmune disease that isn't fixable with anything or they're just taking medications like you are, a cortisone shot to get rid of your eczema, which certainly has problems and implications

with decreased bone density and all kinds of problems. That's not a benign treatment, right? Those are the people that I really want to reach out to and to say, hey, there's other options out there for you. If you have those symptoms, then number one, are you including animal foods in your diet? Step one, get the best ones you can. I talk about the ethics of eating animal foods in my book.

We can talk about that today. Get the best food. Yeah, we're getting it. We're getting all this, but we're sourcing your meat from. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So get the best animal foods you can, eat as much of them knows to tail, and then think about taking out the plant

foods that might be most toxic. The ones we talked about earlier, again, there's a whole outline of that in my book that really walks through it, and then we'll have a cookbook coming out in the fall. In terms of sourcing, I really believe in what's called regenerative agriculture, which is essentially grass feeding,

grass finishing an animal the way that it's always been done in the natural world. When Bison move across the plains, they graze, they'll eat grass, then they'll move somewhere else. When they move away from an area, they've eaten it down to the ground, but not killed the grass, the grass re-grows even stronger because they're pooping and peeing in the grass and fertilizing the ground. And that creates more organic matter in the grass and fertilizing the ground. And that creates more organic matter in the soil. So the reason that the middle of this country was so fertile for so many generations was because that's where millions and millions, hundreds of millions of grazing animals

were living before we killed them all and turned it all into monocraft agriculture farms. Now, the sad truth is that when we do monocraft agriculture and we till the soil, we destroy all those nutrients. When we take animals off the land, when we take grazing animals off the land, the soil becomes much less healthy. Meaning, over organic matter, content, lower nutrients. And if anyone knows a farmer or is a farmer,

this will be self-evident that you have to use fertilizers. You have to use NPK fertilizers to put back in the nutrients that are not going in the soil, which is sort of, that's life support for the soil. But there are so many farms. The middle of our country is basically almost bare in at this point because we've taken animals off of it for so long. I don't know why people believe, I mean, this is the fear, This is the total theme that keeps coming up in this podcast. We've been misled. We've been fed false stories that are not entirely true. Animals grazing animals, especially ruminants, bice and buffalo, you know, relatives of cows have always been on the earth.

Elk, pronghorn. These animals are ruminants. They are good for the soil. They exist in an ecosystem with the soil. By eating the grass, moving on, peeing and pooping, the soil becomes more enriched with organic matter. And there are farms that are recreating this. Places like White Oak Pastors in Georgia, Bel Campo in Northern California, Polyface Farm in Virginia as Joel Salatins Farm. There's probably 50 farms in the US now that are doing this.

And there's a lot of farms now that are doing grass fed and grass finishing. So the criticism that people often have here is what about the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, which we can talk about, it's a little bit of rabbit hole. And then what about we couldn't raise all animals as grass fed, which is a falsehood, which is completely false, because almost every single animal that we are consuming has spent 85% of its life on a pasture, and hopefully it's spent 100% of its life on a pasture. But most of animals now are moved for the last 15% of their life to a grain-feeding operation,

and that's where the real damage gets done, because they're in a clustered pen, they're not healthy, they have to get antibiotics, they have to get hormones, and they're being fed moldy, crappy grains, which are not good for the human, which are not good for the animals, just like they're not good for humans. Cows aren't supposed to eat that many grains, right? They're supposed to be grass and grains. They're eating too many grains, it's not good for the cows.

They get fat, they get sick, they don't have enough room to move around, and the nutrients are deficient in the grains, they, not getting all the grass they need. So that's not the type of animal we should be eating. That's not the type of animal we're advocating for, and we can support the right type of agriculture by voting with our dollars. And the majority, almost every single animal that's grain finished, spent 85% of its life on grass. So there's no reason we couldn't raise all of the animals

in this country as grass finished. We just don't move them to the grain feeding operations. It's because we're voting with our dollars. If you want cheaper meat, they want fatter meat, they want meat that tastes differently, or they want meat from bigger producers like Tyson or Cargo or whoever, which can, again, deliver them cheaper prices because of the grain feeding.

It's better for the business of the farmers because they can get a fatter cow on a smaller amount of time, but it's not, it's totally possible to raise our cows 100% grass-fed and grass-finished at this point because most of them already are. So let's go back to the carbon equation and what people don't understand and what gets misconstrued so often is that the carbon dioxide or I should say carbon coming out of a cow is a lot like the carbon that comes out of a human. It's methane, it's CH4. Most of it is burps, not farts, but you know when I was a vegan I farted a lot of methane in the

atmosphere and we all produce some methane. We all exhale carbon dioxide and plants breathe in carbon dioxide, which is CO2. But when people are saying that cows are contributing to climate change, it's like five leaps too far. It's not an exam and it's actually pre-false because the carbon coming out of a cow is methane. And that methane was a carbohydrate in a plant. If you could tag a carbon atom in a plant, you could get the same carbon atom that becomes a carbohydrate in a plant in the grass and it becomes a methane molecule that's burped out by a cow and goes into the atmosphere. And then it becomes carbon dioxide in the atmosphere after a 10 years of oxidation and then plants breathe that carbon dioxide and make it into carbohydrates again. That's the same carbon atom going round and round and round.

And that's carbon atom for the most part has always been there. There were 250 million grazing remnants in this country in 1850. We didn't have climate change then, right? And they were producing a lot of methane Oh, right methane they were producing 85% as much methane as we have right now and as we've seen with its whole COVID thing you take cars off the road and the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere has dropped to record low This is the lowest in record history same number of cows

In fact probably more cows right now because a lot of them can't be slaughtered because the factories are closed. So we have the exact same number of cows. We have the lowest carbon dioxide recorded in history. And people wanna say that cows are the main problem. Like, no, the cows are not contributing carbon to the atmosphere,

but they've always been contributing carbon to the atmosphere. It's part always been contributing carbon to the atmosphere. It's part of the carbon cycle. And it's... It's also marketing. Oh, sorry. Cool. Yeah.

And so what's different is that when you drive your car, you are releasing new carbon into the atmosphere. That was a carbon atom that was fixed into petroleum in the ground. That was not in the atmosphere. When you burn your car, when you drive a car that's not electric, you are releasing new carbon in the atmosphere. The carbon from a cow is recycled carbon. Same carbon, been going around and around for hundreds of years.

Carbon from cars is a new carbon. It's like comparing apples and oranges. You know what else is new carbon? Monocrop agriculture. When you till the soil, when you drag a plow through the soil, it releases a massive amount of carbon dioxide into the air. That carbon dioxide was fixed in the ground before you eliminated it. Now, the biggest carbon dioxide sink in the world is the ocean. So people also need to educate themselves in environmental science and see

how this is all going around. Again, I'm not denying that cows make methane, but so do humans, and vegans make more. And what I am saying is that that's the same carbon, that's recycled carbon. To say that that is contributing to climate change is missing so many nuances. The real problem is new carbon being liberated from petroleum-based fuels. If we really want to change the amount of carbon in the atmosphere, that's the thing to look at. And who's doing that? Power, gas, coal, cars, all these things. That's the real issue.

Not the same carbon that's been rotating around. Part of an ecosystem that brings us healthy food and allows that carbon to be fixed into the soil to make fertile soil, to grow real plants and not monocrab agriculture. So that makes sense. it's such a radical and it gets me kind of fired up because it's so different. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense kind of. I mean, I understand you're saying,

but you could tell you're very passionate about it. But when did you think of the movie game changers? What do you think of the fact that impossible burger beyond me, all these companies are at like, like they're just surging with stales. And people, I feel like a lot of marketing, dollars are being spent on teaching people or telling people that eating artificial meat,

which I believe me, I'm not a believer in, is better than eating at the real hamburger. Like eating, it's all, do I have this process and salt themselves? It's one of its process and salt and salt. It's entirely processed. It's bamboo and cellulose. It's terrible. And vegetable oils, like, and-

And people believe, people believe that they're eating something good for them and game changers that movie were, it's like, you know, this athlete, strong is athlete and the strongest, you know, whatever athlete in the world is a vegan. But for every athlete that's a vegan, I can name you 100,000 that you know, whatever athlete in the world is a vegan. But for every athlete that's a vegan, I can name you 100,000 that you beat, right? Like it was so crazy.

Total propaganda. I did numerous podcasts about game changers. People can find that on my podcast, which is fundamental health. There's a number of blog posts on my website about it. I've debunked the movie multiple times. I did a whole podcast, debunking, James Wilkes were a podcast with Chris Cresser on Joe Rogan. It's just untruths and propaganda and twisted facts and misleading things. Patrick Pobumi and his not even close to being the strongest person on earth. He's a laughing stock. He is almost certainly taking anabolic steroids. And if you look at what he eats, it's 95% processed food. It's 95% processed pea protein. You could never get that amount of protein with real plant foods. If you have to process your pea

protein to get adequate amounts of loose scenes to create muscle protein synthesis, you're fake. You know, I can do that with real meat, right? I have lots of muscle on my body with real meat. I don't have to take any synthetic supplements, and I don't. But occasionally, I'll take the desiccated organs, but those are real food. And he's taking processed pea protein to get enough protein.

You can't even achieve that with real food. Human stomach won't hold that. You are not a ruminant. You don't eat 30 hours a day. You don't even achieve that with real food. Human stomach won't hold that. You are not a ruminant. You don't eat 30 hours a day. You don't even eat, you know, 22 hours a day. You couldn't do it. It's complete shame. And if you look at the athletes and game changers, I mean, this has been debunked many

time. They've really seen significant declines in their career when they went vegan. Most of them, like, failed out or, you know, had the worst performance is ever when they've been one vegan. It's just complete propaganda. And the whole Beyond Burger movement, I mean, the funding for team changes came from James Cameron, who is 40 million or 140 million invested in verdient foods. And verdient foods is one of the main manufacturers

of plant-based burger ingredients. I think there's a little conflict of interest there. Yeah, of course, yeah. So, you know, it's not an impartial movie and it's been widely debunked. And it's just, to me, it's just the pie-piper and it's wrong. And it's why I do what I do, because I think it's making people unhealthy, infertile,

fatigued, giving them gut issues and worsening autoimmune disease. And that's the complete opposite of what we want. And we shouldn't fear these animal foods. So many of the claims that movie are completely false. Meat is not in the inflammatory. Yeah. When you download the Croger app, you have easy access to savings every day. Shop weekly sales and get personalized coupons to get the most value out of every trip every time,

whether you shop in-store or online. Download the Kroger app now to save big. Kroger, fresh for everyone, let's have a digital account to redeem offers. Restrictions may apply, see site for details. Save big on your favorites with the Buy 5 or more Save a Dollar each sale. Simply buy 5 or more participating items and save a dollar each with your card. Kroger, fresh for everyone. I agree. I think that, like, I don't understand how, to me, it's a very common sense, though, right? If you see, like, too many ingredients on a product, you know that's not good for you, right?

Like, I think that's been kind of talked about over and over and over again. When the first two ingredients is salt and sugar, right, versus one ingredient which is meat. I mean, obviously I'm not just a strict carnivore, but I can still put two and two together that one's bad for you and one's probably not as bad for you, right? Yeah, I mean, it's, and then like I said, there's soybean oil, which we know is very harmful to humans and many processed vegetable oils.

Why would you eat bamboo? You know, we're not, you're not a giraffe or a gorilla, like you can't eat bamboo, you can't eat cellulose. It's comedy, it's comedy. And it's hard to share, to shift people's mind like we're talking about before, right? When people have now been like,

you know, there's been so much money and marketing and telling you the same things of women, they're for so long, people now really believe that they're actually doing something good for themselves and that they're healthier by eating this. But I mean, that's why I like, I thought that you'd do is very fascinating.

And then I wanted to ask you one question before we wrap it up. More about like, I know you've only been doing this for a couple of years, right? What do you think about like people who are like, well, you don't know the long-term effects, the safety of this, stuff like that. What do you, how do you think about people who are like, well, you don't know the long-term effects, the safety of this, stuff like that. What do you, how do you answer them? I think that's a great question to ask.

And I think that two years is a pretty long amount of time to do something. Most nutritional deficiencies will develop within two years. I've debated multiple people on my podcast and I've done tons of lab work, hundreds of lab studies on myself. Like, I'm pretty freaking healthy. If people have seen pictures of me, I'm really active. I think I'm not sure what people will say. I mean, there are no long term studies of any diet in the world.

People to say that two years is not long enough is a little bit comedic. Most nutritional deficiencies develop within months very quickly. And nobody, I've never really been able to encounter anyone who would say like, Oh, you're this, this deficiencies going to take years and years. And it's not a meat. I mean, that's what I said before. Like if you look at meat, it has, if you meet in Oregon's, has everything need is humans, including vitamin C. Like, I don't have scurvy. I clearly don't have any of these things. So I think that's a good idea. You're young though. How old are you?

42. Okay. Well, you look like you're 22. So maybe this thing is working for you. I mean, yeah, it's aging me quickly then. I don't know. It's not aging you. It's not aging you.

But what else did you do? Because I would be under the impression, especially if you're friends with Ben Greenfield and Max and all these guys, I would imagine that you're doing a lot of other things on the health side. So you might be eating strictly meats all day with organs, but you're probably doing a lot of other health attacks that are making you healthy. What are your other habits? As we all should.

As we all should. Right. I think that I'm in the sun every day. I live in low latitudes. I think real sunlight is important. I try to move every day. I live in low latitudes. I think real sunlight is important. I try to move every day. Some days it's intense. Some days it's mellow. I surf. I have a foil board. I do, I want to get back in a jujitsu soon. I did a lot of jujitsu when I was in medical school.

I do martial arts. I do crossfit, ish type stuff. I don't do formal crossfit. I love catabels and resistance exercise. I was like playing outside. I like being barefoot in the woods. So I move around, but I think that for anyone to attribute my health to me out exercising a bad diet is also comedic. It's really hard to out exercise a bad diet and I'm certainly not a compulsive exercise. So I'm not out exercising a bad diet at this point. I think that that doesn't work. I have a lot of friends whose dads eat a pretty junky diet and run 10 20 miles a day and they still have guts, you know, I don't have visceral out-of-post issue. I have a six pack

You know, I'm pretty darn muscular like I'm not out exercising a bad diet But we all should be doing healthy habits in addition I mean, it's more than food, but it starts with food and in my opinion food is the foundation It's the most important part the most important, you can't out exercise a bad diet. And we shouldn't be using food as a reward for exercise. But that to me is complete psychological sabotage. It's not about me going to the gym so that I can eat a bonbon. That's a recipe for failure.

But there are a lot of people in the health space who would advocate for that, saying, if that's the diet you can stick to, it's all about calories. And though I think that caloric deficits predictably lead to weight loss and improvements and insulin sensitivity, it's a horrible strategy from a micronutrient perspective, from an autoimmune perspective,

from an inflammatory perspective, it doesn't work long-term. And we should have be using food as a reward for things that we don't like to do. That's silly. Right. Do you drink coffee? No.

No, don't drink coffee. No, I talk about it. No, I talk about it. No, I'm not a fan of coffee. Coffee's a plant food, right? It's a seed from a plant that's roasted, which creates a chrylamide. Most coffee beans are full of pesticides and mold toxins. A chrylamide is problematic.

And then, you know, there's all sorts of anti-nutrients and coffee beans that you're getting when you drink coffee. So, you know, that's a whole other debate is the coffee rabbit hole. But, no, I'm not a fan of coffee. I just drink spring water. That's all you drink. Yeah.

Alcohol? No, I don't drink. And all right. And then how about like, how about do you ever crave, I mean, come on, like you never crave like a piece of pizza or like a chocolate chip cookie? I don't. I don't.

I don't. And I actually asked about this on Twitter. I said, how many people, and I and maybe I'm a mutant, right? But I think that within time, your body adapts, like I will be, I am basically 100% sure that I could go the rest of my life never eating piece of pizza or a cookie. I just don't, I don't enjoy it.

And for me, maybe it's a mindset. Maybe it's a psychological thing for me. The momentary sweetness is not worth the brain fog and the GI discomfort and how bad I'm gonna feel. I prioritize like long-term gains. Maybe I just have a long-term mindset or I'm just a long-game kind of guy. But I'm not tempted.

Like a main modification. Yeah, a little bit, but I mean, I'm tired to say a stake isn't gratifying. I mean, a carnivore diet is not austere. You're eating meat and filet mignon and steaks and eggs. I eat foods that are freaking delicious. I think the best foods in the world in terms of flavors. What do you do to celebrate?

You go out and get filet mignon or something with your significant other. How many people go to celebrate and get a kale salad? It doesn't have, doesn't it? Oh, I'm going to celebrate with a real, I'm going to celebrate with a, with a, a, a, a bed of spinach. Like, that's done. Nobody does that. People, you know, you might celebrate with like junk food or sweets, but if you're going to celebrate with whole food, a lot of people celebrate with meat. Humans know that meat is valuable for that. And it of people celebrate with me. Humans know that meat is valuable for that.

Oh, absolutely. I'm just, I haven't a scientist. Like, what are you gonna celebrate with the filet, man? What are you gonna put beside it? An or a piece of pancreas? Like, what do you eat with it? I mean, again, we're back to conditioning here. Who says you need a scientist?

I know, it's just like, I guess like, you're right, I'm conditioned to believe that, you know, that I like food though, right? So if that's what I was saying, how do people who are also like massive, who just like really get a lot of enjoyment of what they eat, it's very hard to shift their brain to this, like even if they like fillet banhyon,

like there's other, you're saying also that it's not just eating a filet banhyon, you have to have all the other types of accoutrements that are, knows to tail what have to get all the benefits, right? Ideally, ideally, but so here's the thing, what's it worth to you? What's your priority? Are we using food as entertainment? Okay, and that's your priority. There's nothing wrong with that. That's completely valid. In the beginning of the book, I talk about the quality of life equation. My goal is not to get everybody to do a carnivore diet.

My goal is to help people increase their quality of life. And if someone's quality of life is the priority for their quality of life is health, clarity of mental thought, libido, body composition, athletic performance, sleep and recovery, then you do that. It's not a foreign concept that everything has a cost. Discipline is freedom. Discipline is freedom. Like if you want anything in your life,

you have to work for it. Whether it's a creative promotion, whether you're writing a book, nothing is gonna be worthwhile if it's not gonna cause some effort, right? You can't expect the food to be made from bond bonds and cotton candy, and then just to make you into a six pack Arnold Schwarzenegger and make you like great.

I mean, that's not the way it works. We're going to have to work at things. It's all priorities. It's all sacrifice. You're going to get up at 6am to go for a run because you're training for a marathon because that's important to you. I think people can flate these ideas. They get confused and they say, I can never do that.

Food is too important to me. Well, that just means you don't want it enough. Your health isn't enough for priority, which is fine because maybe your health is not a priority. Maybe your health doesn't need that much improving, but that's where we just have to be honest with ourselves. Like, what are your priorities? If your health is your number one priority, you'll do anything. You will go to the ends of the earth for that. If you're not suffering that much, then it won't be a priority. In that case, you're going to say, I'm a foodie. I use foodies

entertainment. I don't want to naughty filet mignon. Excuse me, I don't want to naughty crem burlée with my filet mignon. Well, that's okay. That's a totally legitimate, reasonable decision, but people are making a quality judge and based on priorities. So what do you want more? What do you want more? Do you want mood appetite? You know, mood body composition, energy, libido, sleep, mental clarity? Or do you want cranberry? Lay up to you. There's nothing that's more valuable than another thing.

You know, that's like Shakespearean. There's nothing either good or bad, but thinking makes it so. So what's the most important thing and solve for your highest quality of life? Mine is not yours. For me, it's hands down physical, mental, performance every day, day in and day out. With what I do, I need to be able to think and I want to move, I want to be athletic, I love playing in nature. That's way more valuable to me than a cookie.

And that's harder. I'm going to have to work for it. So it requires not being lazy as well. So it gets back to discipline, it's freedom. Like, how about you want it? It's not even really that much deprivation. You know, it's not like I would say that a vegan diet, unless you're eating fruit all the time, which we know as a disaster, about dentally and nutritionally, is way less enjoyable than a meat-based diet or than a diet that includes animal foods. So

it's not completely acidic. I'm curious why in the brain side, because you know, this is going to be a question that are going to ask me, the brain health, right? Like in terms of brain fog, clarity, focus, stuff, productivity, why is it that the carnivore dying in your opinion is better than having, let's say, nuts, well, what would you get from that that you can't get from? I'm not talking about junk food, obviously, no processed food, but fruits, nuts, what are the nutrient benefits? What do you have in the meat that you can't get in the other things that create that mental

focus and ability? Well, so many things. So we could have answered this question in many ways. We know that there's this colloquial term called leaky gut, where the gastrointestinal epithelium becomes hyperpermeable. What we know that when you got leaky gut, all of the membranes in your body are leaky, including the blood-brain barrier,

including the epithelium of the lungs, including the epithelium of your blood vessels, which is called the endothelium. And so that's kind of, that's common as synonymous with systemic chronic low-level inflammation. Well, if you have inflammation in your body and your blood-brain barrier is leaky,

you're gonna get inflammation in your brain. And that's, you have immune cells in your brain and they're called microglial cells. They're brain-derived macrophages and they have two states and one and them two phenotypes and they get turned on when your brain isn't flamed. If you don't sleep well, your brain isn't flamed. If you're eating crappy food, your brain isn't flamed. And I think for a lot of people, and this is my sort of radical hypothesis with the book that's very counterculture and is challenging the ThetaSquo, is that a lot of these foods that we believe are healthier actually causing inflammation of the blood brain barrier and contributing to inflammation in the brain.

That's what I believe is happening. If you look at people with psychiatric disease, they have inflamed brains. It's such an old antiquated paradigm that psychiatric diseases and neurotransmitter are imbalanced. You are born without enough serotonin. You are born with too much dopamine. That's complete baloney. You are born with a genetic predisposition to get brain inflammation when you don't live

a certain way. And that brain inflammation is what psychiatry treats horribly and completely misses the bowed on. And if you really wanna heal from psychiatric disease, you treat brain inflammation. How do you treat brain inflammation? You figure out what's causing it. There are a lot of things that can cause it, but I think food is one of the biggest ones.

Just like food can cause leaky gut. Just like food can cause IBS or any of these other problems. Food can cause brain fog. Prove food can cause information in the brain by making that problematic. In terms of specific nutrients, there's a whole chapter in the book on this. When we take vegans and vegetarians

and we supplement them with creatine, they get smarter. Doesn't happen when we give it to meat eaters because they've already got enough creatine. But you can't make enough creatine, but our body can make a little bit. We're supposed to get it to meat eaters because they've already got enough creatine. But you can't make enough creatine. Our body can make a little bit. We're supposed to get it from meat. So you couldn't get vegans and vegetarians five grams of creatine a day.

Their IQ increases. It's crazy, right? So talk about meat-based nutrients that make us smarter. Creatine, coline, good luck getting enough coline from plant foods. You don't have to eat over a pound of broccoli a day. It's like unsustainable. You couldn't do it without getting problems with your thyroid. You cannot get enough Colleen from plant foods.

Colleen is part of phosphatutocolleen, which is in every single membrane of every single cell in your whole body. It's a huge part of the glial cells that wrap around the edges of neurons called dendrites and axons and are involved in neuronal transmission. Precursors for neurotransmitters, amino acids, tryptophan, tyrosine, all these things. Where do you get those in the most bioavailable forms? Animal foods. You can get them from plant foods but they're much less bioavailable. Why do vegans and vegetarians feel better with tryptophan or tyrosine? Because they're much less bioavailable. Why do vegans and vegetarians feel better with stripped of fan or tire scene?

Because they're not getting enough with those amino acids in the plant foods. Because plant foods are survival foods. So, I mean, the list goes on and on. If you want to have a healthy fill in the blank, heart, gut, prostate, testicle, ovary, smile, brain, eye, you're going to need nutrients that are pretty much only found in animal foods, any significant quantities.

And how about anxiety and depression? Not so much focus and focus and thought brain fog, but does it help with the anxiety and depression? People are obviously now having a lot of it. Is there a correlation between the carnivore type of diet and that as well? Yeah, there is. Brain inflammation. Same thing. Brain inflammation. Brain inflammation. At a high level, it's brain inflammation. We can see it. People who are depressed, suicide attempters, suicide completers, higher levels of inflammatory

cytokines. These are cell signaling molecules like interleukin 6, TNF alpha in the cerebrospinal fluid in those people. Brain inflammation and anxiety, brain inflammation and depression, spray and inflammation. How do we fix it? Remove the cause. Is it always plants? Probably not. There are probably other things that can cause it. Heavy metals, lack of sleep, stress occasionally. For a lot of people, could it be some plant foods? I think it good. Right, so not saying for everybody, but for those that big part of it, it could be a big causing factor. I think it is for a lot of people,

and it's totally overlooked because we've even fed this wrong story that they're bad for us. Right. And the way to salvation is to eat more broccoli, more broccoli, and to top it with some kale, and after you have diarrhea and horrible gas, nobody knows what's wrong with you. And then you get put on an antidepressant when in fact, really what your brain needed was nutrients and animal foods and maybe some reprieve from the toxins in those plant foods. Well, this is so interesting. I appreciate you coming on the podcast and I've kept you for like a long time and I apologize

for the length of this podcast, but it was so interesting to me to hear all of this stuff. It was great. So Paul, how do people find you if they want to learn more about the Carnivore Cookego? The Carnivore Cooke is the name of your book and you have a cookbook. You stay coming out as well. The cookbook is in the fall winter, so cookbook is out in a little while. This is the original self-published version of the Carnivore code. You can go to the Carnivore code book.com to find that on Amazon. It's the best seller there. You can go to my website, which is carnivoremd.com and all my socials are carnivoremd. So Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, at Carnivoremd. I've

got a YouTube channel which you can find, if you just search my name and my own podcast, which is fundamental health. So if you want to find me in person, you're gonna have to come to Austin, Texas and look for the guy surfing behind a boat or eating a lot of meat or doing something radical, running around the woods barefoot and shirtless

to probably find me pretty fast. Is that what you are? I thought you were in LA, I thought you were California. I'm in San Diego right now, but I'm moving to Austin in two weeks. Need a little more space. Got you wild. Seriously?

Oh, my gosh. Well, I guess good luck. You have a safe travels and enjoy it there. I thought you'd love it here to the surfing, because LA surfing said you're a big surfer. I do. I'm in San Diego right now. And I do like to surf.

It's just priorities. I need space. I want to hunt. I want to shoot my bow. I want to be somewhere with a little more, a little more ability to do fun stuff. There's a lot of people in California and waves are often really crowded. So I'm going to try and go some more, a little more wild. Oh my gosh, well, good luck. And thank you so much. It's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. And thanks so much. I enjoyed lucky. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. Thanks so much. I enjoyed it. Thank you. Bye! Reinspire your, this is your moment. Excuses we in heaven at the habits and hustle podcasts, power by happiness.

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