Habits and Hustle - Episode 81: Evy Poumpouras – Former Secret Service Agent, Host on Bravo TV’s Spy Games, Author of Becoming Bulletproof

Episode Date: September 15, 2020

Evy Poumpouras is a Former Secret Service Agent, Host on Bravo TV’s Spy Games, and Author of Becoming Bulletproof. When someone casually mentions the necessity for preparing your mind and body to take a bullet you know it’s gonna be a good episode. Evy takes Jen through her journey training for and getting into the secret service, what it was like and the mindset needed to succeed, and finally, working as security detail to former and, at times, sitting Presidents. Navigating her time after that career she expands on the knowledge from that path and how it has applied to every other facet of her life. With someone as trained for intense interrogation as Evy maybe Jen didn’t get some of the juicier details, but a look into peak human conditioning, secret service, and how to turn that training into a success for life after is more than enough to fill anyone’s interest. Don’t worry, no kevlar necessary in listening to this episode. Learn more at Ucan.co and save 20% on your order with code HUSTLE Youtube Link to This Episode Evy’s Website Evy’s Instagram ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Welcome to The Habits and Hustle Podcast. A podcast that uncovers the rituals, unspoken habits and mindsets of extraordinary people. A podcast powered by habit nest. Now here's your host, Jennifer Cohen. I really wanted to meet you of all people in person. I really, seriously, I really enjoyed your book. It was, first of all, the book is, I'm starting already. We'll fix this if we have to, but I had Evie. How do you pronounce your last name?

Pompers? Evie? Pompers. Evie. I'm glad that you corrected me. And your book is called Becoming Bulletproof and you're the most, you really are one of the most impressive people, never mind women, women, that like, you know, that I've had the honor to be interviewing.

I mean, you're, you've won the Baller Award. You, you're like a special, obviously from Secret Service to you have two degrees, one in journalism, one in forensic psychology, you've basically, you're like a real life superhero in a lot of ways. And it's really, it's that I really, and the why I loved your book more than anything is that it was practical.

People can actually take stuff from it and learn from it in so many different ways. So I'm so happy that you came on the podcast even though it wasn't in person. I know, I think we were trying to push it off so we could do it in person because I was supposed to come out to LA and then COVID happened and we were,

you know, at the beginning nobody knew, oh, it's a month, oh, it's two months, six months later, we're still in COVID. So hopefully we get to do it in person. You could put me on your treadmill, we can race, we could see, let's see how good well I do. Because I actually don't do treadmill. Treadables are like my, my nemesis.

I only run outside, so be really interesting to do the treadmill. I haven't run on one in my three years. You know it's really interesting. When I read your book, you said you hate running, right? Which was really funny. So that was one of the things that you try to overcome. And you're one of the things you didn't like.

And so I found it quite ironic that we do the treadmill interviews. And that's why I was trying really hard not to, I was actually trying to prolong this. So this virtual portion wouldn't have to happen. I was, like you said, I kept on hoping that like, in a month that we'd be able to meet in person in two. and well, it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. So I guess this is the best we can do right now. So where do we even begin? I mean, like usually I have a question that I usually begin with someone that I know that I'm going to ask, but like

I said, you have so much stuff that is so fascinating and so interesting for not just me, but for so many people that I don't even know where to begin. I guess the beginning should be like how you were a girl who grew up in a pretty conservative Greek family, right? And you, right? And like you basically made yourself into, like I said, like a real life superhero where you were able to,

you know, become who you became. And how did that happen? Like, what was your, what was that? Do you think how much of it you think is some part of you is innate? And how much of it do you think is just creation out of sheer will or? I think it depends in a different parts of my life. It fluctuates.

I think I'm always, I never like being told you though. I'll tell you that right now. And every time I hear no to this day, like it's temporary for me. So when I hear, hear no, I actually truly are really here not yet. Good. Kind of always lived by that. I actually truly are really here not yet. That's good. I've kind of always lived by that. So it's like, okay, this person may have said no, but that person might say yes.

Well, I'll figure out the way around it. So I've never allowed rejection to stop me. I'm always like, okay, maybe I didn't do this the right way. I'm going to take, go at it from this angle. But also there is a part of me that is a Nate where I just push and push. But I don't push other people, I push myself. And in those times where I have been rejected or where I feel that something, I've never, I've really avoided blaming an outside entity for why couldn't do something. And I think that that's helped me tremendously because when we do that and I could have done

that in different ways and different parts of my life, what happens is you go down that rabbit hole, you get lost in it. And that I, I, you energy shifts from what you should be doing to being a solution finer, like finding the solution to getting stuck into the problem. This happened because this up person to this that person with that. And that's going to happen to a point and I do do that in the beginning of whatever situation I'm in to understand how light happened. But I'm always very, very careful like give everything exploration day,

where I'm like, okay, well, I need to quickly shift and figure out how I saw something. My path, you know, it's interesting because sometimes I'll I'll hear people read my resume and a lot of it is by accident. And I don't want to say it's truly by accident, but a lot of it is just like a door closes, but a window opens. But I've always been that person that's always like, my head's on the swivel constantly. So, and I think sometimes what happens is we focus on one thing. I'll give you an example. I remember I always wanted to work in government

and the first job I ever put in was, this is how long it was, was, I want to say it was the US Department of Probation, I believe. And I'm right out of school and you have to take a written exam. I want to say it was the US Department of Probation, I believe. And I'm right out of school and you have to take a written exam and I so wanted this job. I didn't even know what they did. I was just like, I want to go to my job.

I want to serve and protect. And I showed to take this written exam, which was an essay. Now so nervous, I so really wanted this job. I go in there and I logged my notes to get the best of me. And I couldn't finish my essay. It was all like Mess I couldn't put my thoughts together The time expired I handed it in. I'm so short. I didn't get the job And I remember the person who gave me the the task this woman actually I had seen her

Maybe several months later at a wedding just by chance. She just happened to be at this wedding, and I remember she, I came over and said, hi, I took your test, I actually failed it. I just wanted to say hello and thank you for the opportunity. And I remember her as I walked away laughing because I really didn't really know how to test. She probably didn't think I could put two sentences together. And I remember feeling embarrassed

because I could hear her as I was walking away. I don't really share the story. It still bothers me to the state. However, I was just like, oh well, and then I went into, now at the moment I want to say that this was probably the worst thing I could have ever happened to me. I'm thinking out there's one chance because to get into these government jobs, I can't speak for now, but maybe even right now it's very hard, very competitive to be an agent to be criminal, especially for the federal government, it's very hard, very complicated to be an agent, to be criminal,

bussiness, especially for the federal government. It's not easy to get in. So I really was traumatized. I was like, I just want opportunity, and I let my nerves get the best of me to completely blew it. And looking for me, it didn't work out. Because I would have never applied to the super service, and I would have never gotten in, and I would have been doing something else that wasn't maybe as passionate about. Well, I mean, I'd like what you just said. First of all, so you feel like it was kind of like sometimes when things, when you do fail at something,

it's usually there's a reason behind it for something other, something bigger and better that really is your path to happen for yourself. Basically, and I agree with that. What I find interesting though is that with your, you got, you were in the NYPD Academy first, right? And you went through that gruesome training. And while that was happening, you got the opportunity to go into the secret service academy. Now, what do you think it was about? What was it about you that made them even give you that opportunity because you said yourself, these are not easy positions to even,

I mean, what is it, a 1% of people that actually apply, even get into these, even get the possibility? What do you think it was? Besides the fact I know you said you speak a lot of languages, right? Why else do you think it was? I do think languages help me because a lot of Americans don't. I love America. I love this country.

I'm Canadian, so I'm okay. You know, like, but most Americans don't. We do have, and I was born and raised here, but we have, do this like, I'm America. You know, I don't need to learn any other language, but I always had an actual language, I'm America, you know I don't need to learn any other language, but I always had an after-language, I love languages and because the service deals with different countries that helped, I did, you know, study overseas a lot. When I was in college, I have my studies, weren't in a physical college here in the US. I did overseas programs.

So I didn't learn international affairs from a textbook, I went to the country. I lived a semester in Italy, I lived a semester in Italy. I lived a semester in Mexico. I lived a semester in Africa, Northern Africa, and Europe. So I also had, I also on paper, without anybody knowing me, I differentiated myself. I was a typical student that stayed and did the four-year college.

So to be honest, my friends will go out to the clubs. You still give me a wrong idea. I missed. I was trying to work. I was working two or three. I remember one summer, I was working three part-time jobs. I was working makeup at the Macy's counter, selling makeup. That was that person.

I worked as a summer camp counselor during the day that I would go drive to Macy's in the parking lot, change from my summer camp clothes in the car and got presented windows. Then do get all the dog up, go to the Macy's makeup counter and sell makeup. And then on the weekends, I worked at a gym, Gold's gym, three jobs. But I worked because I wanted to study overseas, so I had no time to really party to go out, to do things that my other friends did. But the world was bigger to me. But I also had, I don't want to say bigger dreams, but I had bigger dreams, I had bigger goals.

And I think all those things helped me. Plus, the secret service, the phases that you go through, the hiring process is not an easy process. It's a very selective process and you have to pass rigorous not an easy process. It's a very selected process, and you have to pass rigorous parts of the process. And I just ended up passing one layer and then passing the next and then passing the next. So I think all these things together

created that perfect storm to allow me to be looked at to get in and to eventually get higher. And then, let we talk a little bit about the actual training process and how what it did for, it's a help build your mental resilience and all those other things because the whole process is to survival of the fittest, right?

That's the intent, they wanna break you down, right? So the people who actually are the most mentally tough can actually go out there and get the job. So can you kind of talk a little bit about that and the experience and the process? I mean, to be blunt, like those types of jobs, like you just can't be mentally, you just can't. And it's not for everybody. But I think the first part of it is you have to believe that you can do that You have to believe you're not mentally weak. You just have to believe that. So you can self edit yourself. You can You can become your own saboteur So to speak and sabotage yourself and help us by thinking you don't belong there

You shouldn't be there and'd never had that in my head. Even if maybe somebody else felt that or felt that, I was just like, you're probably not mine. And what the thing is, you have to perform. But it can be like, look, when you're there, it's stressful. And it's stressful for everybody. Like you're at the range. And when I'm not being scored, I would love shooting.

Like I love the marksmanship of it. And the technique, there's a skill. But then when you're being graded and assessed, and you're using all these different weapons, I'd never shot a gun before going into these academies. I didn't know anything about weapons at all. I had to learn the skill, but my mind was open. I also learned not to take it personally personally and I knew I had to perform. But for me, like I was, I knew I was so lucky to be there and because maybe that first

experience of blowing that first opportunity that I had to go into the federal government, I was like, I'm not blowing this. And I really threw myself into it. So, the people yelled at me, they didn't just yell at me, they yelled at everybody in the class. When we got in trouble, everybody did push ups. Everybody had to run. Everybody ran until they threw up. Everybody had to go through tactics. You just have to perform. And so, it's like, how bad do you want it? I wanted it badly. Right. And how much of it is physical? What is that? How do they break you down though?

Like how much of it is physical? A lot of it is physical. A lot of it is physical. They really like the physical element is something that's, look, there's a lot of academic. You have to pass both parts. Like a lot of it is physical. A whole the agency's out there. It is probably one of the most physical jobs because they're due mission so they do protection which is the part that

is the most physically you have to physically maneuver people, carry people, fight people, you're there to jump in front of a bullet, there's that whole aspect of it and you have to be absolutely 100% it has to be not just okay but totally normal for you which it was for me And then there's a mental part of it, the studying, the learning, the laws, the ethics, the behavioral sciences, that part where you have to study. To me, I think the part that is the hardest for people is the physical part. Yeah. I think that's the hardest part because they really make you and for miles running in

the heat and you snow you're You're being pushed you're doing Hundreds of sit-ups and hundreds of jumping jacks and you're doing all these things that They're like you sing your bodies like there are moments where we run them like I can't even do another Five stops, you know, just like I can't do this because they wouldn't tell you one of the things they would do That was a complete mind game is they wouldn't tell you like if we started a run They wouldn't tell you how long it wouldn't be yeah, they were doing 15 minutes. We're doing a mile So it's a complete mind game So you could be running or three miles or you could be running for 10 miles and you had no idea

And that was very painful not knowing when it went and so right I And that was very painful not knowing when it would end. So I would just look at the floor. I remember there's moments where I felt like my lungs were going to just literally rip open. And I was just like five more steps. Five more steps. And then I do the five steps. Five more steps. Don't think just run.

I just look at my feet and I really would bring myself to that moment. I was like, don't quit. And the fear of quitting and losing this opportunity was greater for me than the actual run. I was just like, you know what if I pass out and I pass out, but with food. I mean, I'd rather be like, I passed out or they have to pull me out or I hurt myself that my body gave out on me rather than on my mind gave out on me. Usually it's the mind and the mind navigates everything.

It really does. So I just didn't let myself have an out. And I also had some really good classmates who were like, came in, keep going. So and also like, if you see the big guy next to you struggling, you're like, I can do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to keep up with this guy. And then sometimes, honestly, I would do this, I'm gonna do this. Like if I can keep up with this guy, and then sometimes, honestly,

I would look for the weakest link, and there were moments where I was just like, if that bosom can do it, I'm sticking this out. And- Yes, exactly. And that gave me energy. And also, once you see, I feel like, when once you see yourself actually succeeding at something,

that gives you a motivation to keep going to the next thing. It gives you the confidence, I feel. Once you, I think when you have small wins or big wins in this situation, that win propels you to the next win and it kind of keeps on going from there. You know what I think? No, I think it's small wins. And I think this is why so many people give up on things so easily because we think something's going to be a big win like like hitting the lotto or do putting in for a certain job or

losing weight. Whatever that thing is, you think it's going to happen quickly? It doesn't. Even training when I went in, I pull ups, for example. I've never done pull ups before. I struggled with pull ups. And I remember even There were a couple of girls in my class and winning a lot of us

Just a couple and the other girls were like well, you know, nobody really expects us to do them You know women are can't do pull ups and I was just like mm-hmm. No way I'm doing them and I was like I'm not gonna just do them. I'm gonna do what the guys do I was like I went and I found the standard for the guys because I was like, I'm not going to just do them. I'm going to do what the guys do. I was like, I went in, I found the standard for the guys. Because I was like, I don't want to hear nothing from nobody. And who says that I can't do them? Like look, upper body strength were designed differently. Absolutely.

But you know what? These guys had a lot more to pull up than I did. Because I had a smaller frame and I was skinnier. So I was just like, even playing piano. But I worked on I worked on run and I think the small one so goes from doing one pull up to two pull ups to two to three from three to ten from ten to fifteen to twenty however it is and even the run so your wins are small they don't happen right away but it's patient so we all want that quick big payout and then when we don't happen right away, but it's patient. So we all want that quick, big payout, and then when we don't get it, get it we give up.

But eventually with time, or not the first week, not the second week, not the third week, but my body is getting stronger and stronger and stronger. And I'm like, man, I'm pretty diesel. I'm like, I can lift like whatever at this point. And then you get into your flow. But it takes time and it's incremental.

And I think that's where people lose hope. We're so instantaneous, this got happened fast and it doesn't happen fast, we lose hope. We lose motivation, it's just like, you gotta stick out. Yeah, you know, when I said big, I meant big wind. I mean, I said small winds because I do believe that. But for you, these are all, in my opinion, when you're in a situation like that, that's like a monumental win, right? Like to do some of the training. It sounds very similar to like the Navy SEAL training.

Was it, it seems like that's the kind of physical, uh, situations that you guys are in the similar to like a Navy SEAL, correct? You know how it's different? I used to work a lot with the SEALs actually. We would work a lot with the seals, actually. We would work in tandem with them. And we always talk about training. Their training was different because it was tactical in the sense that they go to war. And our training, and they also deal with the water, which

are a terrible swimmer. So I definitely would have never made no. Are we an army stranger? Are we an army stranger? I mean, any of those things. They're, you're an army stranger. Army stranger. Army stranger. Any of those things. They're all tailored for their specific mission, but yes, the physical element is on that level.

Like, you're performing to this prestigious physical level for eager specific agency, and they have no problem telling you that you're weak, they have no problem telling you that you suck, they have no problem telling you, please go home. The Secret Service did really try to work with you, but at that point by the time you get to the Academy, you're really hit and they do a physical assessment on you to see if you can even get into the Academy. So you've already been filtered through to see if you even have the physical capability to go through it.

Even when I was already in the Secret Service and I was going to the President's Detail, I had to try out for that. So everybody, there's a Smith, if you're in the Secret Service, you outen a small percentage of agents to the President's Detail. A teeny tiny portion, do it. I was gonna ask you about that,

because I think that isn't a sum, because you see all the movies, right? And the movies look like if you're a Secret service agent. Yeah. And that's the job is to protect the president, the first lady. So how, of all of the secret service, what is the percentage of people that actually get to do that part? You know, that's such a question maybe 10% I don't know that's a really it's not a high number because a lot of agents go to former protecties so former president Bush. They always remember that the former first lady so they all get protection and then some people don't want to do protection there's other avenues there's

intelligence there's protection like a different part of it like the operation stuff. So they have other divisions that you could go into or some people just stay in the criminal investigative field. So not everybody wants to go to the show, we call it the show, because it's a hard life. And then you also have to dish audition for it in a sense. And the other thing too, from a, when you audition or when you put in and when you try out and you fail, everybody knows you fail. And so just the sheer part of trying out and not making it

and failing is enough to deter people from putting it right. So it's a highly selective process once you're in there. So even there I had to try out with internally at my office before they sent me to the president's detail to try out again to go through an internal selection process and then maybe you get the president's detail. Like it's not an easy thing to get. Wow, so how did you, what was the audition? How did they audition you? The audition, right? I'm talking about that. Yeah, I know, but like no, but like it's like that is like The pinnacle of it all it's physical a huge part of it's physical running tactical training

Pushups pull us clearing houses like a lot of it is combat fighting like can you tactically fight? So like if you're in a burning building, can you effectively protect your person? Shoot. You know, be a golf by fires or flames be shot at Protect yourself protect your person jump in front of a bullet if you're getting ambushed. How do you tactically go like there's also like if there's an attack We don't just randomly run different places They everybody's assigned different positions different positions different things, and that's all class by day can't share that. But you have to memorize every move, every position, and where you would go during that position,

depending on a tactical firefight, then you're working with snipers and you're working with a tactical team. There's a lot of tactics, a lot of movement. You really have to be, I'll say this, you have to have agency at this point when you're putting in for something like this, you must have agency over your body at this point. You're more experienced, you're over, you're movement, you're physical capability, like

you have to have agency. You know, and sometimes- What do you mean, agency? Control. What do you mean, agency? Control. What do you mean, agency? Control. At this point, you have to be performing. Like, you have to be strong, you mean, if you're concerned about it? Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it?

Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it? Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it? Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it? Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it?

Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it? Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it? Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it? Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it?

Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it? Control. What do you mean, if you're concerned about it? Control. What do you mean, if you to kill the president, they're trying to kill you, but you have to kind of get quiet and think there's my guy, there's my other guy, where's the threat, okay, I'm moving, my world's quiet, I'm flowing. Chaos is happening around me, but inside, there's stillness, and there's also this level of peace. And there's also this level of, so I might die. You got to have that. If you go to that job thinking, oh, I'm going to die, you don't get out because you have to be

okay with it. You have to look at it. It's like, well, I might die. It's part of the job. It's normal. And you also round up a life-minded people who are kind of like, all right, today might be the day. And you're good with that. I can't even believe this. I mean, how can, so that's the thing, you have to be born with a certain kind of mindset already that to be okay if you get shot at.

Like, you can't, how does that just like, how do you just create that? Do you know what I mean? Like, I think I'm tough-ish, but there's no way that I feel, and I know you're gonna disagree with me because I heard you on some other interviews say this but like I still don't think I have the The the the the ball so to speak to be able to put myself in that kind of front line and you know

I think you have to have you have to have that innate desire to some degree to push through that type of barrier. I mean, it's one thing to push through something else that you're not going to get killed for. But this, and I know you said, well, we can all be that way. But I don't know. But I think it's what you said, though, you hit on it. It's like you didn't have the desire. I had the desire. So we have the desire and the passion, then it works out.

So it's like anything. If you're the desire to do something, you'll put all of you in it. So, you have to have that desire. And I did have the desire to serve, to protect, like I did have that innate protective feeling. Like I was happy to do that. I was also, you also become what you're surrounded with. So if we hung out, if we took you and all you did is, you know, I brought Toronto my secret service friends and you just hung out with us for a month straight, you would start slowly to kind of, we would inform you a little bit and you would start to kind of share that mental mindset because we share, we kind of influence one another. So you would absorb

those qualities because that's what you would be around. You're not around that, then it's very foreign to you. And that's true. So you're in service of something greater than yourself, and then I think sometimes in our culture we're so fearful of death, we're so fearful of it. It's like, but the thing is like, it escapes no one. It escapes nobody. We're we're going to go, and I think because we have such a fear-based thing behind it, when you normalize it like that, it's just part of the way it is, and it's like a evolution of us, sort of speak, like we just evolved, it's just part of us, then it becomes a normal thing. But if we hype it up into this scary thing, this thing that's completely going to demolish us, then I think you can even choose to be more afraid or less afraid of it, and you can

pick what that path. I agree, but I actually think what you said was spot on, because the people that you surround yourself with become who you are, right? So that's what they say, the five people closest to you are the most important, right? Because you guys, you basically feed off of that energy and that kind of that person, those personalities, but we go back to this because I think it's so fascinating. So here you are. You're like protecting the president.

You're, who was, I, you're probably won't tell me, but who is your favorite, who is your favorite person, like as a person that you protected? I'm all the president. I won't the presence. I won't tell you. Just because I want to, I think what happens is when we give up our favorites, it's like sometimes because we other privilege we have or I had being in close proximity to people, people read into it.

See, yeah, that guy was nice, the other guy was a jerk, and I really, I'm super careful because the connection still are there, you know, they're not strangers to you, they're human beings. They're all unique, like they're all special in some way, they're all different. I mean, I learned something from each one of them. I enjoy, I may have joined certain assignments more than I enjoyed others, but sometimes I had nothing to do with the person I was protecting, it just had to do with where I was or what my positioning, my sign was. Okay. All right. Let me rephrase it a little bit.

What would you say? I'm going to change it a little bit. So of all the people that you've protected from a rock-a-bomb, I've spilled Clinton, everybody, all these people, and it didn't even have to be those people. Who would you say you learned the most from just watching how they are? It's so hard to say it's... No. Is there one person that you feel like you just...

Not one of your favorites. How about that? Can make it more general one of your favorite people. I can say like experiences that I can enjoy like I enjoyed like sometimes I am like not outdoors. I grew up in Queens. I grew up in New York. I don't know outdoors.

I don't speak outdoors. Well, I would enjoy going to the I I loved the ranch in Wake, Texas and I was terrified of it at the same time. I was just like, all the ranch, this rattlesnakes and mountain bikes and then George Bush Senior. But what I loved was seeing him do mountain biking or hack into the human-created past. His name was Trailblazer. His name is still his.

It's Trailblazer, it's co-named. And so he would literally hack trails. So I like that part of him, which was, it was uniquely different. So here's the thing, this is why that question is difficult. I had access to be around the multiple presidents of the United States. There's not a lot of them and there's like not many people who can say they're around

so many of them even administrations. When a president comes in, the whole administration goes very few people can say that they're around these people so for me. It was shocking actually when I saw that. That's what was really surprising. That says a lot of who you are and your job, right? Because that's when I was reading your bio initially. I'm like, how is this possible that she could be the president to—she could be the protector of Obama, Bill Clinton, George Bush? I mean, George Bush, who else was it?

Who else was there? I mean, there was— Well, I started under Clinton's administration while he was still under current, current, but like, for example, George H. W. Bush, which is President Bush's dad, I had him, I protected him while he was a former president, so he was already out of office. So that's where people get confused. So you can probably protected all of them for, two are protected. I just, Reagan, I never had.

And I heard he was great. I wanted to protect Reagan. It just never happened. But you have them through different points of their life. So really, truly, I had George Bush Jr. and Obama while they were current. And then Clinton technically, I didn't get to actually protect him until he was as soon as he got

above us, like literally the next day I think I had him. So he technically was a former at that point. So that's kind of how it works. So you're around them, but they're still engaging with people, they're still doing things, they're still involved in profits, different organizations, they're still out there. So you're so much, so much from them. I mean, even Mrs. Pomerrower's lady Laura Bush hands out one of the most beautiful human beings I've ever come across. Really? So you just you just see these wonderful qualities like you don't get to that place without seemed I just I guess I can't pick. I can't pick. It's not like, I just, I guess I can't pick. I can't pick.

It's not like, you know, pick your favorite shirt. It's like, pick your favorite tattoo gown from, you know. It's like, they're all amazing. I can't pick one. Keep coming back. You got plenty of space. Oof, not how you would have done that. You like working with people you can rely on.

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Grab a with love today. Vitamin water, zero sugar, nourish every you. Vitamin water is a registered trademark of glass O. But also, it's hard to interview someone like you, right? Because you're the master. You know exactly, this is what you do. You're like a master interrogator. You were like, you were in a polygraph, but that's

what you did, right? That's how you were also, you were like an interrogator or you read these polygraphs, that's what you did for living. It's very hard to kind of like get you and go try to get you to say something that I don't that you don't want to say because you know all the tricks are ready. So, you know, you're gonna despair with me. I'm gonna try my best. But I think that that's okay. I think that, and that's the thing,

it's like, you feel good about asking the things that you want to ask, and then I also have to feel good. I think sometimes we feel like we have to, we can still be polite and stay known as someone I can't answer that without it being a negative thing. And I think that's another thing I learned

in as being an agent and going through training and dealing with difficult situations. Like you can have wonderful boundaries and be graceful and respectful and still say, no, I can't cross that boundary and make it absolutely, absolutely friendly and warm and just be like, it's just not a boundary I can cross. Oh, actually, I like, like I said, when I read through your book, I have to say there are so many things that resonated, like how you embrace combativeness, not combat, confrontation, I should say.

You embrace those things because that's how you get past certain things and you're honest and you're authentic of what you need. Also, there's like I said, there's so much here, I don't even know where to like zig or zag. So I guess, let's just end, I want to just end this part because we, I kind't even know where to like zig or zag. So I guess let's just and I want to just end this part because we I kind of like took you off a little bit talking about the presidents and like your favorite and now I know Laura Bush is most likely your favorite

that you ever dealt with, but I'm just teasing you. I'm teasing, I'm teasing. Um, about what are some steps for people right now because with me to kind of gain some mental resilience. Because right now everyone's really, I think a lot of people are struggling with what's happening right now with COVID. And how do we just kind of tie that bow together? A few steps of how people can really begin to build mental resilience. Yeah, so stop thinking about what's happening as a problem. COVID, the whole environment, it's all negative, negative, negative, negative, negative, right? And so it's just, it's like, it's just make it your new normal. So remember when I told you I went through training, everyone's yelling at me, screaming at me, trying to break me. Rather than seeing it as a negative, I was like, no, this is just my new normal.

Human beings, we are so resilient.ient we can be so resilient just adapt this Get that narrative of like this is bad. This is bad. This is bad because then it's all bad It's like okay. This is my new norm. It's gonna be here for a while We might have finished 2020 and go into 2021 like this. It's very likely. So yeah, put it in the side Stop consuming the negative news and the negative media. Twitter, I used to use a lot now because every time I get on Twitter, it's hate, it's negative, it's this.

I'll post if I need to post something, I get right off. So you are what you consume. Yeah. The information that's out there is what you consume. The news, go in, get brief, get out. That thing should not be on 24 hours a day and use is always going to be negative. It just finished. People, that's what they're going to show you. I'm going to show you all the positive things. They're

going to show you all the negative things because that's what draws people to connect. Also think about your inner circle. You touched on it before. Who's in your inner circle? Is your inner circle afraid? I don't want to say weak, but are they weak? Are they making you more stressed out? Are they making you more panic? Like, what are you doing to cope with that stuff? So think about things that make you stronger more resilient. Think about your body. Are you taking care of your body yourself? And I don't mean just working out to be fit. I mean working out to be healthy and to take care of you will be good for you. This is your new normal. So if you lost your job and everybody to some extent has either

lost your job, had to pivot, figure out new ways, lost income, like everybody's experienced something. So here's an opportunity for you to pivot. So don't think of like get rid of that well-wiz meat, little COVID is going to me. It's doing it to pivot. So don't think of like, get rid of that well with me, little COVID is going to me. It's doing it to everybody. How do we move on? Change that mindset from like, hey, how do I crush it? I don't, I think it's about dwelling on a problem. And what we do is we dwell for long periods of dime time and we let stuff touch us too much. Does that make sense? We let things impermeat us. And we don't create healthy boundaries for us, or healthy life habits for us.

And then we wonder why we're depressed. We wonder why we're upset. We wonder why we feel victimized. We wonder why, because we allow it in. You're the gatekeeper, but you're gateoned. Right, so you're basically saying that to have, change your, reframe how you think about certain things, change the dialogue in your head basically, and try to create some positive, positive habits that become your new normal, that kind of becomes what you're doing.

So new routines, right? So our old routines are gone. And so what happens when we get stuck, I wish, I wish, I wish, I wish, it's not there. We're not there. It's gone. Let that go. Stop living in the past. Create new change to adjust to now. So it's a problem-based versus solution-based mindset. So we sit and focus on the past, the problem, the problem, the problem, the problem is like problems here. It's not going anywhere. Move forward, solution. How do we move forward? But also filtering what you let touch you, what you allow to access you.

Adapting adaptability, acceptance and adaptability are the two biggest things in your life. Accepting the reality of the truth of where you are, being okay with it. Here's my truth. Just as when it is, now how do I adapt? But when we resist adapting where it's, I can't believe my husband left me. I can't believe I lost my job. I can't believe I have no money.

I can't believe this. You're just stuck. You're never gonna move forward. You're never gonna be to pivot and shift. Right, adaptability. They say that's the most important thing for survival and for success, right? To be able to pivot and move through

Well, thank you. I think that was that's that's obviously it's super helpful I mean like I said this is all in your book also and like even certain things like you are giving in Becoming bulletproof. I loved about also like when I'm reading a part of it Then you even talk about things like it's just the in the protective area, like how you could protect yourself when you walk into a restaurant even knowing we're exits. Like, you really do give such great tactile, practical information from so many different areas. That's why I feel like I have to definitely, by the way, have you on many times because I'm just going to be going from one area to another right now, just to kind of like touch the surface. Because like I said, this really really I really enjoy your book.

I really appreciate that and I really appreciate like what you said especially in the beginning because when I was writing the book I wanted to give people actionable things because I can have a person who's read a book or listen to someone speak and they give you things in theory and you're like that's great. How do I do that? Exactly. Tell me the how. And that was one thing I was like, I don't want anyone

to read this book and feel like, you didn't tell me how to do this. You didn't tell me. Absolutely, Cheryl. And that was the most important thing. And I wanted to take everything because if you want to create like a resilient mindset, a bulletproof mindset, a bulletproof life, it's about confidence, about protecting yourself, it's about living fearlessly, about putting all these things together. And that's why I broke the book up into the three parts, protection, reading people,

influencing situations, because it's like all of this together makes you unstoppable to something. Oh, absolutely. You said, I totally agree with you. There's so many books that I read because of what I even do, right? Where I'm like, it's all theory. There's nothing in it that gives someone an actual thing that anybody down the street can actually truly do

to kind of better their life and that they can integrate. You said in your book, in the protective area, I believe it was, you talk about like the F3, you know, to the flight, a fight flight and freeze mode, right? And this could help with like helping with your fears in general. Like I think it was like, you said, how to conquer fear. And I really disresdened it with me because you were saying how there are people who, like naturally, their tendency is to either fight or flight or freeze, right? And knowing what your tendency is and how then to work on it to protect yourself or overcome fear

is so helpful. And when I was reading them, I'm like, this is so true because I tend to freeze. You tend to fight. Right? I'm just like, you're doing, you're just like the toughest human and you're like the toughest person. I'm like, I don't know if it's not for stupid because you can go either way. Okay, well, for this interview, I'm going to call, I'm going to be polite and call you very tough, okay? But like when you were saying when you were a young girl and you were like, your house

was being broken into, your mom froze and you went, you went, you went looking to fight the, the potential burglar. And I, I thought, oh wow, I'd be what, I would do it with her mom did. I would just actually just, you know, freeze. And can we talk a little bit about that and how this is a really good way to kind of frame how you push past your fears and help even protect yourself by working on knowing knowing yourself because you mentioned being realistic with who you are helps you in life really. Yeah because I you know it was so

important to me because it's like there's an ancient Greek saying, no, guys, so how can you learn to over-confir when you don't know, guys, you don't know yourself? What do you do? So you have to know you. There's so much power in ourselves and so many of these books and things I read, it's all about the external things around us. It's like, no, it's always you. It's, you're the, the, the everything in your life. you. You're the everything in your life. And I'll be honest, like I'm sick of everybody being told that there's things that are being done to them that diminish them. It's like, no, you're the gatekeeper. You control what you let in, what you let, you know, affect you. You decide what you tolerate. And I really wanted to give people that power back. And part of that power is like, no, who you are.

Do you, are you someone who fights everything? Because that's, so if you use myself for example, I like to fight, I immediately go on the defensive or offensive rather. Not the best thing to do because sometimes, if I do that, I can sabotage a relationship unnecessarily. I make it presume something as somebody taking a shot at me when they're really not taking a shot at me because I'm immediately prone to do that. So because I know I have that temperament or that reaction to

whenever I feel threatened I know to slow it down because I know it's coming. I'm like, hey, I know it's gonna come because I know myself and then I can control it. If you know, hey, I always freeze and freezing means you're in that inner struggle. I don't know whether to fight, I don't know whether to run, I'm not sure what to do because you're overstimulated because your after he's being activated, you're drenneling all that stuff that's happening. It's all up for you. And so sometimes when we do speeches lock up, because we're so overwhelmed and we're afraid of it. It's like when you know that what's that's what's happening, you're freezing up because your body's trying to help you.

And so when you see it in a positive way for what it's doing for you, it's like, hey, my body's trying to help me. And when you understand why you're freezing up, now you can overcome it. So in that situation, in a different situation, in a different situation, stressful situations happen, and they each have their own level of stress, how severe and often there they are. You recognize it, and you say, okay, I'm freezing up.

I know what this is, and you almost kind of feel you ain't talking away through it. Okay, well, I know freezing up, but I'm gonna put that on pause right now. I think in this situation, I should deal with this individual or maybe in this situation, I should just walk away and that can help you set up that plan because you know what you expect. That's it. Know what you're going to do. So if you know what you're going to do, if you, let's put it this way, if you don't know how you're going to react, how are you going

to handle somebody else? You got to know each first. And when I remember when I first started to learn how to fight, even now I did present you a jujitsu mui tie. And I'll get hit. And I remember I was fighting yesterday. I'm supposed to go this evening. And I was fighting with my instructor. And he had me on the floor at one point.

And he just completely demolished me. And we're playing fighting, right? This is, I don't want you to play fighting. Did you just do what's gonna get mad at me? We're not playing fighting. We're fighting, but he's really trying to make it hard for me and choke me in this chokehold. Wow.

And I started panicking. And it's not a chokehold. I start panicking and I'm like fighting like an animal and I'm losing my technique. And actually when you fight emotionally, you get sloppier, you make more mistakes, you get hurt. And so in that moment, it's like, hey, don't go into your fight mode, it's into that crazy emotional mode.

You know what's happening? Breathe. It's tactics, it's training, slow down, take a moment. Okay. Now figure out your maneuver. So even to this moment, I have to walk myself through that. Yeah, and also what you said is true, like whenever you do anything when you're coming from a place of emotion, a good way to kind of tell people, in your opinion, what's a good way

to kind of stop that from happening? So, it's very, it had to stop responding or letting emotion run what you do, what your next move is. It could be in business, it could be in personal. Like that's how a lot of fights get escalated personally and professionally, right? Because you say things that you don't mean,

that you don't wanna say, you do things that you don't wanna do, but you don't have that button in your body to be like taking a breath and like moving on. And like, or stepping away, stepping away. That's a really good question. And this is something I learned over years. Because we all do that. We step in it.

We say it. We can't take it back. We commit this. Right. We shouldn't have done. When you can, and I will tell you this, 90% of the time, do nothing. We think we have to respond to something.

Do nothing. When you can, just do nothing. So when I go silent, for example, and means I'm pissed because I know myself well enough because I know I'm going to say something and it's happened to be in the past or in what you say it, you can't, you can't take it back. So when I'm seeing red, I shut up. Even if I have somebody doing or saying something, if I can't within that moment, not do anything like in business or in relationships most of the time you can do nothing You can sit and let somebody yell at you

Let's make it horrible. Let's make somebody yelling at you and you are berating you And maybe let's say it's a boss And you can in that moment say nothing, do nothing and walk away And then think about what's happening and think in a thoughtful way, how do I deal with this? Well, how do I deal with this person? Because yelling, braiding that person back or escalating maybe they're making a snide common at you and then you just jump down their throat. That you're also helping escalate the situation.

So you don't want to mirror the nonsense or the garbage other people do. You want to have agency over yourself. You would have, you know, I say, you wanna have agency over yourself. You wanna have agency over yourself. You just don't wanna be this reactionary person. You just don't wanna be somebody who just reacts to the random things that people do to you. That means you have no agency over yourself.

That means you don't govern yourself. You're just constantly in response, reactive. In those situations, when you can, as much as it hurts you, and as hard as it is, do nothing, walk away, and think about what is happening, let that emotion pass. There's so much power in that, because the majority of the time you'll find, I don't need to respond to that angry text. I don't need to respond to that email, or I can just sift rule the noise and just be like, yes, see you tomorrow, all right, and ignore all the notes and somebody just your colleague

or coworker just wrote you. And then you start to figure people out because in life, even now, I'm constantly assessing who and what role people play and over time, people may end up being people that you should avoid. You know, this coworker repeatedly, I've had this issue with them. I don't like the way that's often me. I don't like the way to speak to me. But anyway, I'm going to go tell them off and you can. Or is it better to like minimize your interactions with that person?

Because usually it's very rare where you're going to go off on someone and be like, you know what, you're right. I am an asshole. Right. They're not. They're going to be like, like how dare you call me that how dare you this and We end up having this I guess be smarter They're playing chuggers You play chess right don't think the next move. They're thinking most people thinking media gratification I want to tell you off and I'll play that out. I'm like, I'll tell you off, but then

How is this gonna hurt me later? Well, you could screw me on the steel. Well, you could have me do XY and Z differently. Or you could hold back money from this project, or you could hurt me like this later. So I'll think five or six steps ahead of what it means long term. But again, when you're emotional, lock the party down. Just the best thing you do is just shut up, pull back. I don't want to say a retreat. This is not retreating.

This is about being tactical. Pull back. And you can, I don't say give back at people, but you can put people back in their place over time. But you don't have to do it in that moment. More from our guest, but first a few words from our sponsor. So do you want your team to develop habits that will help them thrive? You need rise.com. The all-in-one online training system employees love. Rise makes online training

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It's a term. It's a term. Yeah. So it's a term I came up with to help for those difficult situations. Three disruptors. Time, place, time, place, and activity. So time is a disruptor, so you get an angry email from a boss, give yourself 24 hours before you have to respond, or just don't respond when you're pissed. When you're pissed, do nothing. When you're afraid, do nothing. All of it. When you have three's on high, do nothing.

So time gives you that ability to self reflect and look back. And think about situations where maybe you've told somebody off or done something you're like, you know what? I didn't have to do that. I could have just let it go. I could have ignored it. I wasted my time without person. So think of all those times where that's happened.

Where you think you have definitely, you could have handled it. That's time. Place, remove yourself physically from the environment. Go downstairs, get a cup of coffee, go walk to the deli, leave your house, go to the beach, just you physically take you and move. Get away from that person or that situation when you can. An activity is something bigger. So let's take a really dealing with a huge life situation, maybe a really horrible divorce and you're stuck and you're angry and you're trying to figure out how to manage it. Sometimes literally removing yourself from the event or whatever trauma you're experiencing and putting yourself somewhere wholly different, maybe taking a vacation,

maybe traveling overseas, maybe completely like removing yourself. Not right now. Well, not right now, but maybe learning a new skill set, like when I go to Jujutsu, it forces me to be in the present. So no matter what's in my mind, it completely shifts me because I have to be in the present. Race car drivers, people who climb rock clim climbers all those activities with a draw you to be in that present in that present moment skydiving just you want to I'm giving you extreme scaling I don't I mean it's the activity alters your mental makeup

rather than you sitting home and dwelling on a specific situation. Get out, shift the activity in your brain and look where you can come back at it from a different lens. Yeah, I mean, I really love, again, I love that part. I love that you put a name to what it is, right? The disrupting and how disruptor and all the different ways and how you should be able to do it. Because I found that with myself, right? And I'm sure everyone can relate to that that they've reacted at an emotion and they

paid the price in some other way later on, right? So I Yeah, I thought that was that was really well said I feel like we let other people get the best of us to when we do that when we resent right else And that's what this is about. It's not about putting other people in places about power for ourselves. And honestly, a disruptor could be something simple of, and I've done it with my husband sometimes. I'm like, let's get out of the house.

Let's go for a walk. I need ice cream, I'm pets. Yeah. Whatever your disruptor is, just move, shift, change your environment, which helps you change what's happening here. And by the way, there's a lot of research that proves that when you change your environment, something happens in your neurons and your brain that tweaks

how you feel about a certain situation. But you were saying something until we were kind of going more into the disruptor part, but which kind of like segues really good into the part about when you're to get to know people, to know in someone, how what kind of person someone is. This is what you did for a living. You became at one point by the way, were you an even an interrogator?

I feel like you've done a zillion jobs in the 12 years that you were in secret service. You've kind of like, I feel like that've done like a zillion jobs in the 12 years that you were in secret service. You've kind of like I feel like that the gamut you did the present you were like you watched over the presidents, you did the lie detectors, you did the interrogations, you did like a million jobs. Which part, which one was your favorite first of all? I'm curious. You came in the favorite part of your job that's you personal. You're objective.

That I can share. I think it was when I worked cases, when I did interviews. Those were the most meaningful to me. And you're right, I don't know what the percentage is, but I think it's like only, it's about 30 special agents out of like 5000 agents that personnel that are in the Secret service are polygraph examiners

and terrible behaviors. So it's a very small skill set and I just feel there's an opening I was just like, why not? Has always been my mindset, why not? Where's the good thing is saying that? And I've always kind of been like, let's somebody else tell me now. I don't want to ever want the first note of company. That's always been super important because I feel like I've always had of been like, let somebody else tell me, you know, I don't want to ever want the first note of company. Like, that's always been like super important because I feel like I've always had you, my parents,

love everything, it's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, and I'm just like, I can't, it knows like my least favorite would out there. Absolutely. I love that. But you say, you know what, the first note to come from yourself, you sound like you were raised very, very, very Jewish and we seem like we've,

I feel like we came from a similar background where, like, but your parents were like you were raised various, I'm Jewish and we seem like we've, I feel like we came from a similar background where like what your parents were like kind of very conservative, conservative, overprotective and they wanted you to have a certain lifestyle, right? They wanted you to get married, have a baby, you know, marry a nice, great guy for me, a nice Jewish guy. And you kind of like, you just had your own path. It's just amazing. And like kind of what normally would happen is you kind of like, you just had your own path. It's just amazing. And like, kind of what normally would happen is you kind of just follow people usually follow that path. But it kind of, you went the completely the other direction and you were bailed basically.

And when like, now I never want to say, you never want to have a limit. You never want to have anyone say no to you. It's just, I mean, I love it. But what did you do first? Were you a polygraph? Were you a... First you do, you come out, you're from no investigating,

you go into the investigator's squad. And then it was after me four or five years, that it was opened up, and this one would you like to be an polygraph examiner and a interrogator. And I said, sure, and you had to kind of try out for that as well. Take more polygraphs to pass,

because you get a higher clearance level when you do polygraphs because you're interviewing. You're also interviewing not just criminal cases or violent crimes, you're interviewing things that have to do with national security, terrorism, and television stuff. So there's this whole other audition process, like sitting in the room, hopefully you have to go detailed, then a whole other training academy that you have to go through, that was pretty much all academic and that was extremely hard, academic wise. But going back to your initial question,

what was the most meaningful? I think that was that because for me, I was really dealing directly with people. And so if I'm helping with the case where, let's say we have someone that we think committed a crime and they're about to walk and I could come in and talk to that person and possibly get information and confession and you lose. That was very impactful to me because we were trying to get justice for someone. But then by proxy,

if we, if a police department or somebody was looking at the wrong person, I could come in with a fresh lens and say, you're, this person's innocent, you're looking at the wrong person, focus elsewhere, and that would also happen, too. So I felt like in this way, like you're really impacting people's lives directly, I know most people would probably think that I would say being in the White House and being with the president, but for me working cases and helping society directly, that was the most impactful. When you really see a family member or you're really doing good that's changing somebody else's life, because also, you know, we're seeing today, like if you're not really thoughtful in the way you behave in this type of environment,

because you're given a lot of power over the people, a lot of influence over people's lives, and I really, I took that to heart, I never took it for granted how a wrong decision on my part could really change somebody else's life. Maybe it was every day, or I think somebody was like no big deal, or interviewing someone or interrogating somebody was like no big deal, or interviewing someone, or interrogating somebody was no big deal for them, it's a big deal. And so I never lost that. So those were the multiple, impactful things.

I mean, did you feel that you had to be kind of like a chameleon when you were interviewing, when you were interrogating people because you had to adapt yourself, your personality, to mold, or to meet the person that you're talking to to get the information that you needed out of them. Like you had to... Yeah, I didn't feel like that. I think, I realize that, I think most people would think, oh, you have to pretend to be something or not. And that's, that's this ingenuous,

and the people would see through that. They actually taught me, they're doing interviews that there's more layers to myself. I'm not one thing. And I think we grow up and we think we're just one thing and you hear that charm. People say, I'm just going to go be myself and I was like, what is yourself? Myself changes throughout the day from the morning. I'll be one person by the end of the day. You've got a whole other woman. I self-changes throughout the day from the morning. I'll be one person by the end of the day. You've got a whole other woman. And I started embracing those layers of myself.

And then it also homely understand myself better as who I was as an individual, who parts of me needed work, who parts of me to embrace. And then depending on the person I had, I would draw certain parts of me that I think would resonate with them. And then I would draw certain parts of me that I think would resonate with them, and then I would suppress other parts of me that I thought would diminish them or intimidate them or frighten them.

So I would just, it was like a radio station when you're trying to find that radio station the frequency and sometimes it's like they're static, sometimes it's really strong, sometimes you're looking for that perfect song, and that's, it's like I'm the radio, but I'm all of those channels. Right. I'm all the kind of trying to figure out which one I need to be, which is the strongest and resonates the most with that specific person. I think that's true. I think we all are the chameleons in a certain way for ourselves. We all have different layers in different ways. It doesn't mean it's disingenuous, it doesn't even mean it's not authentic. It just means that we all have different sides for our personality. And basically, what side do you present to what situation? Because

I think, again, I think you're also saying this in your book that your first impression is very important, right? And appearance, and people don't wanna say this, but it's the truth. Appearance is important. People are making their first impression based on the first thing they see. So why not be able to, people like people that they feel

they have something in common with, or they feel like, right? So I think that's all true. People feel like they're not being real, if they're not exactly. I'm just gonna wear my sweat pants because that's just who I am. Really, but if you're going to a corporate environment,

maybe that's not basically the best thing to do, right? I agree with that. Or like it's like, oh, Stephen, what's this, Mark Zuckerberg, where's the hoodie I'm gonna wear for me? I'm like, it has Mark Zuckerberg. Like it works for him. I, you,

exactly. If you're trying to work it to get to that point where you want to achieve something, the impressions you give off other people, they have relevance. And so the outside does matter. When I say the outside matters, it means the part of you that you're choosing to present. What are you choosing to show to the world and is it conveying the message that you want? You control that in our area. You control all of it. Well, you've had an interrogation and I were a bright pink fuchsia sweater with yellow flowers on it. You tell me how successful you think I'd be.

No, absolutely. Which actually brings me my question for you is, in all your experience doing this, what do you think were the most, what work, what steps or what kind of things that you do to get the information that you needed? What was the, how did you maneuver? Besides, of course, adapting your personality to somebody, what other ways you feel that you can influence people the best way?

You know, no, I think I'll use it from the perspective of today, because it's more relatable to the listeners. And yours, I think, when I'm dealing with anyone, especially in business, today, or even personal relationships, I try to listen and speak less, especially at the onset of any conversation. And the thing that that's the most important thing, rather than right away coming in and giving advice or helping, it's thinking I'm helping, but it comes up more like I'm lecturing someone. I think most people just want to be heard. And so silence in the beginning of the onset

of most conversations has been, I think, a great, power-grate leverage because it allows me to adjust to the person in the mood that they are currently in our mood shift, right? So that's, I'm also allows me to assess. So, for example, if I want to say something to have an agent, and I want to share something with my agent that's super important with me,

but if I call and then that moment, my agent is super busy and he's got, he's like, hey, look, I don't know how much time, what's up? If I have something really important to say, I'm not sure in that moment. I'm like, this guy's busy, he's not gonna hear anything, I say, this is a big deal to me. It's like, hey, no, no, don't

worry. Why don't we talk later? How about tomorrow, the day after? I will postpone having that conversation because if I'm going to drop something that's super important to me, I'm going to drop it when you're fully present. So just then something as simple as that is assessing your environment and the person sometimes, if I have something important to share with someone, I will save it to a later point because I'll understand this person is not in the mindset to hear or receive what I'm going to say. Because what I'm about to say is super important to me, I'm not going to waste it in this moment because it's going to have no impact, no effect on me.

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That's 10% off at PAPAR.com. Absolutely, I agree with that, but that's about having the ability to read people and read a room, right? But it's like, it's up my case, so I'm super busy. What's up? As soon as I hear that, you? So my case, sir, super busy. What's up? As soon as I hear that, you just told me you're super busy.

You don't have time for me. You're not really going to listen. Within 10 seconds, I already know not the best time to tell you what I want to share. People will tell you, but what most people would do is be like, oh, I have to say this. I'm thinking about me and what I want to deliver. And I'm not hearing what he's telling me.

I'm busy. I don't have time. What's up. He just told me everything I need to know about him in that moment. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, for the reading in or diving into. He's not here, he's not present, he's not listening. Shut up and say good for next time. Absolutely. There's a difference between listening and hearing though, right? You can hear something, but not be listening to the actual content that's coming out, right? You're right. You have a lot of people who have been all the time. Right. And so do I, by the way.

You know, I think I do too. But I think there's so much value in that, right? I think that's how you, I feel you get, you get to know somebody. And that's how people also get trust that they trust you. When people feel that they can talk, people love to hear themselves talk, I feel, right? So if they talk, they feel, oh, they're closer to you. That's probably another way you can kind of glean some information that you need, right? I think we just, just people want to be here.

They want to be understood. So let them go. And people love to talk about themselves. They love to talk about themselves. Let them go. And people love to talk about themselves. They love to talk about themselves. Let them go. Let them give you info. And you silence when you're talking to people if you're having a conversation with someone

and sometimes it can be difficult, maybe your teenage kid. And they're not giving you a lot. When you have conversations, you silence. Sometimes I'll see parents fill the void of the silence with by continuing to add information in. Drop the question and leave it. When you drop a question and you leave it, you put the owners on that person that you

expect them to answer. But what we do is we don't, we've got this weird thing with silence. We don't embrace it. Silence is powerful. Drop your question and let it rest. Count to ten. You saw this one with colleague, he would count the 10 before he would actually say anything to somebody. He might even wait longer.

See, I agree. Yeah. That's right. It's so uncomfortable. People hate that discomfort of what silence is, right? And then when you, that's counting to 10, like a mind fuck really, you know what I mean? You're like, I'm so it's become so awkward. But maybe that person also needs time to be comfortable to speak to you. Maybe you're also allowing that person to put their thoughts into place. Maybe that person also by being silent, you're telling that person, this is important to me. I really want to hear what you're about to say.

And you're also not doing that person an easy out. To learn. That's 100% true. But even in an environment that you're in when you're in like an interrogation room and people's fear, I would imagine, would overcome them. And their behavior would very much be different than what it would normally be outside of that room.

Right? So, you know, how do you tell, what are some ways that you can tell? I know you talk about a lot about this, how you can tell when someone's manipulating you or lying to you. When you don't know somebody, you know, you said something really amazing and one of these things I saw on you, how if people deviate away from their natural behavior, that's a sign that they're lying to you, right? What happens if you don't have a close relationship with somebody and you want to know if you're

getting the right information or if they're lying to you? How are some tricks and tips for people? So for something like that, so let's say like you and I were talking, right? So you've got your, you've had the similar posture throughout the interview. When you ask a question, you get excited, I see you use your hand the certain way. Now she's gonna get all uncomfortable. Yeah, you know, we don't we've never met. We don't really know each other, but in talking with you, we're gonna you're asking me these questions. You're comfortable because you're asking me, right? So I'm watching, I'm assessing, I'm looking at your normal pattern of behavior.

Even within the first two minutes of a conversation, people show you the normal pattern, meaning your posture, how they're seated, the way they speak, and so now if we were to turn the tables, having like I've already assessed your normal pattern of behavior, how you position, the language you use, whether you know hand movements and gestures. And so if I would have Flip it around and ask you a question and let's say it was an uncomfortable question, I would look for deviations. If you maintain the same posture, the same language, the same parallel linguistics and your response to me, it would indicate to me she's being truthful. This is the pattern

she showed me the whole time during our conversation. This is who she is in this moment. That's why it's so powerful when I said, let other people talk first. Not just because they want to be understood. It allows you to assess them. When I let you speak first, and even though the majority of the interview here, I'm speaking because you're in the interviewer, you're asking me. But at the same time, I'm looking at you, I'm also listening to you. I me but at the same time I'm looking at you I'm also listening to you I'm looking at how you

not up and down when you like a question I'm looking outside did you get in the way you shift the meaning in when you talk to me all these little things which I'm really sorry it's just habit at this point doing something in my head and I'm like that's who she is and so if I ask you something uncomfortable and you deviate oh that's not who she's been the past five minutes, 10 minutes, 20 minutes. So maybe there's something going on here with this question that I asked her. So that's why it's so important to try to be, to try to listen information from other

so that you can get a read on their, their patterns. Besides patterns of their bot, that's more of that's body language. It's also it's. It's not. It's verbal language too. It's verbal. If I'm in you questions and immediately you go quick, respond quickly to every question and then I ask you, you know, like, for example, you asked me, but you gave me an out to

you asked me, what was your favorite president? And when I pause and I and I don't answer right away and you kind of automatically knew this because you read my book and you've done research on me but you also knew that I wasn't going to give you a response right away and I didn't. You saw me, I get quiet, I'm like you know, I deviated from answering the question, I went, I danced around it. So now it was known to you already, but am I answering your question? I didn't really answer your question. So you want to look at that stuff, but so many times we'll ask people questions and we'll think they answered us and they never do. Politicians are great,

I always use them as a great example. I've learned probably my greatest evasive techniques, not from the interrogation room, but from watching all the politicians and presidents. is invasive techniques not from the interrogation room or from watching all the politicians and presidents? Oh, yeah, absolutely. They never answer the question. And that's a talent, right? To know how to deviate and to skirt around years ago, I used to work in media training, right?

And we would teach, I would teach people, we would teach people all the time that have three landing places that you want, where you want the answer to be You know, you've got three different answers or three different things you want the people the public to know Right, so no matter what the question is no work. You'll have three places to land. I feel like These people that's that's how people get a get around it. They'll always be able to it's a talent and it's also it's Experience right to know how to, no matter where,

someone's asking you where to land, what you want them to know, right? But it's practice, anything that we're talking about is practice, you can practice anything, right? You can practice getting better at, you know, dancing around a question, right? You're very good at it because you've done it for God, how many years of your life, I mean forever, right? It becomes second nature to you. So would you say

to really then understand, to kind of know if someone's lying is the language they use, obviously, the body language, and then how they're saying what they're saying, right? It's really important, you know, no, but you're hitting this because there's a lot of books out there There's a lot of people who talk and they tell you these are the top ways to melt somehow somebody's lying Now it would be very clear and this is important because like there is no text book It's that somebody does this, this and this their lives But nobody we're so uniquely different We're so uniquely different. We're so uniquely different. We're all going

to behave differently based on our DNA or genetics or experiences, our backgrounds or culture, all these different things. So to say, for example, that anytime somebody lies, they look up into the right. That's just the most ridiculous thing. Just think about how ridiculous just that sounds. Or every time somebody is going to lie, they're going to clear their throat. Some people may do that. Some people may shift their gaze. Some people may look up to the left.

Some people may look at the floor. Some people may do absolutely nothing. That's why it's so important to really evaluate a person as an individual and know that there's different indicators and different things people can do. But this easy checklist like, let me tell you how to spot liars. This is where we miss it

and why people are still baffled by it because we think there's step one, step two, step three, and we lose. We lose this common sense knowledge that nobody is gonna behave the same way. The same way we talked about F3 before, some people fight, some people freeze, some people flee. Everyone's uniquely different. And so we want that quick easy answer rather than really sitting down,

being in attention to that person, connecting with that person and noticing that person, and being in attention to who they are, how they speak, how they present themselves. Their voice. You can always see one thing I noticed when it came to women who had been victimized by spouses. There's some type of abuse. Whenever their spouse was around or they were speaking of their spouse, their voice would go softer and higher. They would shift. Or even when they talk normally about one thing, and then the minute they're talking about an abusive relationship or an abusive parent, an abusive parent, that adult would go back into that child voice and they get really high and they don't sound like they were talking like they're a little kid and then they go into that demeanor and that persona

and then that moment I'm like, wow, there's something traumatic here. So even just listening to somebody speak about their parent, just listening to the parling whisks and the way they would shift from who they were, to how they sound when they talk about their parent, would tell me a lot about the relationship they have with that parent. Yeah, I mean, I see that's such a great point because I do, I see that too when someone talks about their parents or their relationship from they they tend to shift their voice from what it was at that moment to when they're thinking back to their relationship. Now with all this interrogation, you I mean

all the experience you've had, is it just a matter of time until you break someone down? Like usually like you can, well you get the information or does everyone finally come clean or get whatever, do you get what you need? Just, I mean, is it more like just like, no time? Not everybody breaks. Somebody told me when I went through the interrogation school at Department of Defense, they said 10% of people will tell you anything. 10% of people will tell you absolutely nothing. It's the 80% that you have to work for. And so the danger of, and if we're talking just purely interviewing interrogation techniques, the danger of breaking somebody down is we've seen historically that some people give false

confessions. And that's highly, highly dangerous. At least if we're talking about criminal investigator-wise, like I never wanted that. I needed always, and I wanted to always to make sure that what somebody was sharing with me was true, because could I be that good and are some people bad, good to maybe manipulate somebody

to tell them something that didn't happen? Sure, age is a factor. Mental health issues are a factor. The weakness or vulnerability of the person is a factor. Sometimes health issues are a factor, the weakness or vulnerability of the person is a factor, sometimes when people are talking to police, you really give this reverence to them, this trusting thing, and police, law enforcement are allowed, I was allowed by law to use to lie in the interview room, to some extent, to get somebody to tell me the truth.

I could say like, for example, oh, here, the fingerprints right here, and I would have absolutely nothing right there. So those tactics were allowed by the Supreme Fourth are allowed. So I never wanted to break someone down like that because I could make a huge mistake and implicate somebody who gets somebody to tell me something they truly didn't do. But if we're taking it again to real life, you don't want to break people down. You don't want to brow people brow be people into doing something I've seen this and it will blow up in your face even if you get somebody to do something short term Once that passes they're going to resent you

You have to love people to get and make their decisions on their own. You can't bully people You don't want to bulldoze people. Nobody respects that, nobody likes that, nobody appreciates it. Even if you are right, think about all those times people that bullied you or bulldozed you, even if they were correct to some degree, the delivery mechanism is super powerful. We don't want to intimidate people, we don't want to make people fear-based, all that stuff hurts you. You want to allow people, if you can't, to comply or get to where you want them to go willingly. So can you rule those someone instead giving you a deal or agreeing to something short. But then after the fact, they will resent you for it and think about

all those times where somebody did that to you and you're like, you know what? That mother, I will never do that again. That person got me to do this. I don't want to do it. And you resent them. And you resent yourself in the process. We don't want to do that. That's actually very true. And also, when you have to lead by telling someone, people want to come feel like they are coming to that conclusion on their own without someone

else, basically, like you said, not just brow being them, but making them feel that they have to, because they're your boss or they're your authority. It's a very sensitive way to kind of navigate through those types of communication, to get people to do what you want without them feeling that they're doing it because you told them to, right? So that leads me to my next question with you. What are some techniques to get people to do what you want them to do without them feeling that they're doing it because they feel obligated because you're making them do it? Well, it depends. I actually don't, I didn't, there are so many things I wanted to put in the book and I just didn't have time.

But like, when I do, I do public speaking stuff, where I talk to companies and I teach them how to deal with difficult employees, and for customers, and all that stuff. But, for example, I'll have a lot of employers or supervisors say, I have a hard time managing my employees and my people, how do I deal with it? And so just a very simple mechanism is, when you're looking, for example, to discipline someone, let's say they've done something or you really wanted to do power. The last thing you ever want to say to somebody, I'm the boss you need to listen to me as your supervisor, like get rid of all that language. They already know you're that, it diminishes you, you don't need that. But what are the little things you can do? When you have them come into your office, if it's

something where you want to exude, I'm the boss, you're the employee, when they sit down, have them sit down across from you on the other side of your desk. So you want to put a barrier, you want to create a me, and then there's you. So right there, I'm setting up my environment to create the separation. My chair as the boss is going to sit slightly higher than your chair. So that way, when you're looking, you're going to look slightly up at me. Very subtle. I mean, you actually don't want to put person on the floor, right? Because they're going to realize it. But these are so techniques in which you can create an environment with that person, heo's, that you are the supervisor.

Have a seat. Show people where to sit. Would you like a drink of water, control the room, control the environment close the door If you need to read today might be a little bit more difficult to close the door in a certain situation I'm being able to address someone and then when you address somebody I contact is huge I contact is huge never be afraid to make eye contact especially when you are trying to convey something with someone and be afraid to make eye contact, especially when you are trying to convey something with someone. And something that's super important because sometimes when we deal with confrontation, there's plenty of employers and bosses that don't like confrontation.

They don't like to to reprimand anybody. Make a list. Because when you're in that emotional moment, that F3, when you feel threatened, you're uncomfortable, oh my gosh, it's going to be confrontational. I always tell people, make a list and write out your points. And so let's say you're dealing with employee who is not performing a certain way. I would give them facts and I would write them out that way in that moment when you're having this emotional thing happen within you, you're not trying to think through. You're just reading off a piece of paper. Look, I want to talk to you

about this account. There's something that was missed here. Could you tell me why that listeners tell me about that was missed? Tell me about that. And I talk about Ted in the book, tell me, explain this, try. When you don't know what to say, have them tell you. Have them open up and start to give you information when you're not sure how to speak.

So all these little things that I'm talking about, create an environment of power and strength. The other thing, and again, I'm really getting into the weeds of the psychology of it. No, I love it. I love it. As a supervisor, you might not want to have, if you want people, neutrality is very powerful. The more people feel like they know you, the more comfortable they are, and the more likely they are to challenge you. So if you are a supervisor and you want to really maintain that strength, they'll go out

drinking with your buddies, they know your buddies, your employees. Don't cross certain lines because you want to have them not completely fully comfortable with you because once they feel that it gets harder for you to deal with people. And they're more comfortable with you. So they'll push back, they'll cross over. And then maybe all the pictures in your office, maybe you don't have all pictures of your little kitty cat muffin or your family,

or think about what you're exuding to other people because when they see pictures of your family members, and you know, I was gonna get mad and be like, oh, I can't have pictures of my family members. You can have them. Well, what's happening is they feel more comfortable because they feel like they get to know them. Right. She's got kids. Oh, she's got this. Oh, she's got a cat.

Might not be that tough. I don't know. Whatever that perception is. Right, right, right. The more of a mystery you are to people or more of an unknown, you are to people, they don't have time or they don't have the ammo information to kind of dissect you and analyze you. The more than unknowingly you are, the more neutral you're put to them, the more the wild car you want for them. They can't assess

you as well, where you can assess that person better. So all these little indicators are super, super powerful. They can give you strength. Even when you post on social media. Well, that's why that's the detriment, right? I mean, people, that's how I've had a lot of guests on the show when we talk about how to kind of, how to read someone quick, or we're talking about this with you, how to read someone quickly, or how to build trust,

and all these things that we're kind of also talking about. People say, look around the room, look at what they have, what pictures they have, make a natural connection based on what you see when you walk in the room. If they have a dog and you have a dog say, hey, I also have a golden retriever. Like, they're kind of find the connecting point so you guys could, you know, it takes away that like that fear or that level of authority right away. I don't want you to be comfortable because the more you feel like you know me, the more bravado you're going to have the room in the room. You're going to feel comfortable, you're going to feel to talk back to say something. And if I'm trying to keep, I'm trying to manage all my people, I want to keep that unknown. I don't want you to know me that well.

And this can be a heart percent people. You can still be friendly, you can be cordial, you can be inviting to people, but you don't need to be an open book for people. The more you share, the more comfortable people feel. And this is where I see a lot of managers, supervisors, employers having a really hard time navigating relationships with employees. Just know when you're hanging out and doing these things, it just makes it that much harder for you to manage people. Yeah, that's a great point because like I said, like I just said, the reverse also works. That's

how people get feel that those are tactics. When you look around how they can get to know you and feel that they can make that connecting point to level the playing field. Right? So, I mean, it's amazing. You have to write another book. You have a lot of information. There's like, even in that book, I mean, there's like, that would could have been three books right there.

Each section could have been one book. I really believe that. You know, like, you're so much. Well, you know what? I think it's the only book of its kind, because you'll find a book out there that's about protection. Then you'll find a book out that's about mental resilience. You'll find a book about body language for reading people.

Then you'll find a book about influence. But there's no book that takes it all and puts it together and kind of harmonizes it and integrates it. And that's because that's why I was like, you have to be, I think it's important to be all of these and use all of these because I use them in a day to day. I teach them to individuals. They were taught to me through the US Secret Service, some of the greatest people and more common and people and successful people you show many of these strategies, and incorporate them into their lives.

And I really was like, if I'm gonna write a book, I'm gonna write a book to make people feel powerful. I don't wanna send a writing book about my life, that's not what the point of the book was. But I will say, those stories, those personal stories, and anecdotes are very, very like that's compelling to me. I was actually that was one of the greatest things, like hearing these things or me being able to like be curious and ask you who your favorite

president was. What was like something that you learned from? Like I hear that Bill Clinton is the most charming charismatic man that's ever walked the planet, right? I'm curious in real life when you work with them day to day, what was he as charismatic as everybody says he is? He was very charismatic. He was very in the present moment when he talked to people and that's what was very powerful. And he manages this. He does something that's so simple. And if you pay attention after we have this conversation,

whoever's listening, I want you to pay attention that watch people, and when they talk to you, how fully present are they? And when I say fully present, like, if that iPhone comes out, or that iPhone is even in their hand, they are not fully present. And so he really, when he talked to you, he talked to you.

So they could be like a thousand people around him, but he really was kind of there with you. And that's like such a simple thing that anybody can master, but most people take for granted. Right. Of all the people, this maybe, maybe you will answer. Why see visually the most charismatic of all the presidents that you've worked with? I think he was like almost like it's not likeable. I think a lot of people like them and were drawn to him because of his communication skills.

He made people he made people feel special. He really made people feel special. And so think about there when people make you feel special, it makes it the more you feel good, the more you trust and like a person. So we also behave towards someone and open up a trust people based on how they make us feel. So they make us feel good, more likely to trust and be open.

And so that's what he did. People felt good when they were around him, but it was because he was, when we present him, made them, made people feel special. If you make people feel special, like it's such an exhilarating thing, I mean, it changes the brain chemistry. It really like,

it are, are, are, are, and orphans go up, are dopamine goes up, it's a feel good thing. Something even as simple as saying somebody's name. When you call somebody by name, we are bringing response. It gets activated. It gets excited. We feel good. And so that's what he really is successful at doing, really talking to people. And it wasn't like a superficial, like, hey,

how are you doing? Like he really went in. He was like, he was locked in here. You and that was like, that was kind of like his superpower in a way that that's really was I Think I think so I mean I think that was like a universal thing I mean that's why people thought he was so charismatic is what exactly you just hit it He made people feel special when he spoke to you. He made you feel like you're the only person in the room Right, so that's a that's a super power What would you say Would you say Obama? What would be his superpower?

His voice. He really projected his voice. I was really impressed by that. You could hear him coming. He really used his voice. It was a really good speaker. He would slow down. He would speak.

He took his time. When he talked, because of the way he spoke, he's telling you, I'm important he needs to listen to me. And so he exuded power through his powerland with six of his voice and speech. You didn't speak fast, you didn't rush through it, you don't hear a lot of ums, likes, filler words, didn't really do that stuff, he really owned his voice, you projected his voice. So using your voice projects power too, when we're talking about supervisors before and how to deal with people, think about how you're using this tool.

We don't really embrace it. We kind of take it for granted and use it. You voice exercises, voice and speech. There's so many things that a lot of these presidents or influential people do behind the scenes. Something simple is taking voice and speech classes to enhance the way they speak to the public. Makes a huge impact. Right. Make a huge impact. I agree. And what do you, like what do you, as your show, is the bravo show, it's coming back for another season or it's spy games. Spy games, air, this winter pre-COVID.

And it's on who now, such streaming on who. Oh, it is. Are they coming back with another season then? We don't know, yeah, COVID's, you know, throwing everything for a loop, you know, across the board, including in TV, there's filming, can you film, budgets, there's so many things happening right now. So, but like anything, it's like you accept and you adapt and whatever the next new project is. What is your daily life like? Can you give me a day in the life of, of every now with your, like what do you do? We wake up with time, give me your day to day routine. My day

to day routine. So usually I'm- I daily routine. My day routine. Usually I wake up around between six and seven. I mean, we can't fluctuate, but it's usually between six and seven. I wake up right away and I always change right away. I change even now from working at home. I change.

I'll even wear shoes in the house when I'm working. Like I really kind of shifted to work mode. But the first thing I do is I wake up. I get myself out of the house right away. So I go to Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts. Those are my vices. I don't have any of them. I'll go get a green tea or some kind of beverage.

I do a drive. I go outside immediately. That's your viced? Green tea is your viced? Green tea, I have to. Oh my god, you're all done. It's all like, oh my god. I go out the house, but it's sweet. I put a lot teased your advice. Oh my god, you're all done. Duncan, it's like, oh my god. I go out the house, but it's sweet.

I put a lot of sugar in that. That's like where I go, issue, but I go out. They're crazy. They're crazy. I go out, I come home, and I immediately go into work mode. So I'm staying my shoes. I'll go sit in my office because now we're all COVID, so I can go into studio. But I did did adapt like I created a studio at home, so I did certain things to kind of embrace

the situation now. And sometimes I'll have to travel, it's rare now. Sometimes I'll have to go out, but usually I end up doing my work from home, from my home office, depending what I have. And then around, I'll work straight through, I might take like a, and I literally, I'll give myself a 20 minute, 30 minute lunch break. Well, I'll completely check out a simple way for myself, and then I'll eat, whether I'll watch something,

entertaining, but I let my mind rest. That's just me, I have to give myself a break. Then I go back into it, and around six or seven, like today, it's around seven p.m., I have jujitsu. So once I set that clock up, I'm like, I'm done. I go into my night routine. In my night routines where I do most of my stuff

outside of work, so my routine is some kind of workout. So today's gonna be jujitsu. Tomorrow might be running, the day after, I might be working out in my garage, but every day I do something physical, and how I get, well, that stuff out of me, that's just me. Remember, fights my, uh, I think, so I'll either like chase my demons, run my dragons out, whatever you want to call it. So today I'll go to Jiu-Jitsu from actually no Muay Thai is today, which is Thai boxing. From seven days, I'll do that that and come home. I go to my

inversion table in the garage, I hang upside down between 5 to 10 minutes because it stretches my back and my spine, which is really good for elongating muscles. I'll stretch, I do a cold shower, stretching is huge for the body and I'll do a cold shower no more than five minutes, man. I like, yeah, I put my timer on, but it's really good in bigger in the body and it stimulates circulation. It's got youth properties that, you know, I'm pretty sure. Preserve. I know all about the cold showers.

I hate them, but I know they're very good at what it does. So I'm doing it. Oh, yeah, I'll go and scream in the shower. Whatever I need to do. I'll talk to myself Then when I'm done, I'll do a meditation. That's my evening routine. Like I will do that like I really try to stick to that It's super super powerful and then I'll make sure I try really try hard after 7 p.m. or 8 p.m Like try to make it seven not to eat anything because when I eat late, I sleep with a heavy stomach and it's, I also do intermittent fasting. So I'll definitely, yeah, I do it.

I definitely give myself a minimum of 12 hours where I won't eat. This is not starving ourselves or anything like that. Like I want to be clear. So my last meal is at 7 p.m. I'll make sure not to eat anything till 7 a.m. It allows your body to just rest and be in clear itself out. The body is not meant to always have food and stuff in it. So this is my routine for me. This is super powerful because I believe in taking care of like this is my temple. I get one.

I didn't get another one. And I wanted to be as strong, as powerful, as beautiful, as I can keep it. It's what I got. It's what God gave me, wherever He gave me. This is all I have. But it's on me. And I've seen, we'll take better care of our cars and our houses and our manicure all ones than we will with this. And it's just so important. And every week, I will make sure to do something that's good for my body, whether it's acupuncture or whether it's going to the chiropractor, whatever it is, every week I'll do something that's outside of my normal routine to care for my body, whether it's getting a manic or a pedicure, every week I do one thing. And I really like this is you

you have to love this and take care of this and when you do that you'll love it more. And it increases your confidence, your self-esteem, all of that. It's just all interconnected. My body, come and tell you it's all it's all like this. Oh absolutely. You're preaching to the converted by the way. I couldn't agree with you more. And it's interesting your your night routine is, a lot of people do those things in the morning routine. The exercise, the cold shower, the meditation, why do you do that at night, not the morning?

Because I listen to myself, because I tried the morning, it doesn't work. I wake up, I'm on fuego, I'm like, I got it this, I got it that, my brain's going rapid-firing. And this is why, I'm so glad you said this because I'm like, I got it this, I got it that, I got it that my brain's going rapid fire. And this is why I'm so glad you said this because I feel like we look at everybody else and we try to mimic what other people do. And this goes back to what we start off with. No by itself. I know myself. I've paid attention to myself. Morning routine does not work for me. Now routine does and you know what? I sleep better because of that.

Because I prepare my body for rest. I rest better. I sleep better and I wake up on fire. So I have too much energy, too much going on for me to go work out. My nighttime routine is really me doing self-care. For me for the morning, what's gonna happen is I'm gonna go work out and I've tried it.

And the whole time I'm not focused on my workout, I'm thinking, I gotta answer this email, I gotta send this, I gotta do that. And so, I'm not present for that. So I feel like when, for me personally, when I work, then I'm done, now I can be present in my nighttime routine. I did all the things that would chatter in my head.

Yeah. Just works for me. And so, for somebody else, it may be middle of the day. So that's why I can't emphasize this enough. Don't try to be with everybody else's. Find your flow, your groove, you'll know what it is. If you're trying to do the morning routine and you've stuck out it, like I do,

there's a reason why you stuck out it. It's not for you. Switch it. Try it at night. Try it at middle of the day. Figure out what works for you. And you have enough energy at night to do my tie and all these other types of boxing and martial arts. You have enough,

like, from the day you have enough energy going into the night to do that. I make myself a lot more. There's days I don't have energy. Like there's days I know I'll put on Instagram because I really want to be honest with people. I feel sometimes we'll have trainers and instructors. I'll say this even goes through Secret Service training, when they run and work out. There were very few guys that were like, yeah, we'll be like, this sucks.

Exactly, right? This is the strategy. I call bullshit on those people, by the way. Yes, you should. And I think, and again, it's one of those myths where we make people feel like, oh, you should enjoy working out. You should be motivated.

And you know what happens? People think I have to be motivated to work out. I'm not mentally there. So hence, I'm not in the space to do this. Let me tell you, I'm going to go to Muittai today. I have like 50% motivation to go, but I'm going to drag my ass, I'm going to go to, we tie today, I have like 50% motivation to go, but I'm going to drag my ass and I'm going to go. Afterward, I feel good the whole way there, and halfway into it, I'm just like, I'm looking up the clock. Exactly the time. But it's when I'm done

that, I'm like, I know I did the right thing. So please, when you don't have that motivation or passion to go, hello, that's just normal, and it's okay, just go. Despite you being like, I don't wanna go, I don't wanna go, just visit what you're shoes on, visit what you're sneakers on, visit what you're gonna do, whatever you're gonna do. Don't think about it, do. If you think about it,

you're gonna think of the 20 different reasons why you shouldn't go. Absolutely true. I think that's a very good point. People think that because I work out, you know, it's very important to me and I work out every day that I must love it so much. I just stain it 99% of the time. In fact, I hate running too, but you know why? I hate running so much. I make I force myself to go on that treadmill every day. It's because I hate it. I will not let that be my thing that. And I hate it the whole time. I'm cursing and I'm trying to think of everything else to do to get off that

treadmill. But I keep on going because it's the after effects. It's the residual stuff you get from an afterwards. It's so important. And people don't seem to understand that you don't have to love it To still have to still need to do it to be good for you and get the benefits So I'm so glad that you're you're the same way I think it's the truth. I know so many people who work out and it's very few people like yeah, I love it

It most people it's hard Exactly, you know, and you said something great. You don't do it because you love to work out. You do because you love yourself and you're by it. That's why you do it. I love it. I'm showing love to myself. That's why I go. Absolutely.

The benefits that you get from so many, from just mind, body, mental, everything. It's one of those things where you do that to get the good stuff later. You know, you're going to go through the garbage to get to the to the treasure sometimes. I'll tell you, I learned this, honestly, I learned this in the Secret Service. They really taught us to nurture our bodies because our bodies are vehicles. First of all, if your body wasn't performing, you couldn't do the job. You get fired. We had to perform every three months.

We got physical fitness tests. And so they're in, they really, you got to perform. It's just part of the job you get fired. You have to perform every three months we got physical fitness tests. And so there really you got to perform. It's just part of the job. But it became part of that culture that your physical well-being was part of your job you had to work out. And so I took that into my day-to-day life now. It's like make that part of your physical well-being.

And I have to say You know, some of the other agencies might name me for this of all the federal agencies You you you watch the president any president this amount of will president is you the secret service You tell around them these guys are fit these guys are strong. These guys take care of themselves and y'all Because it's been ingrained into us like Take care of your body like your body is your your your your your your really have to have agency and you have to have discipline over it. And when your body is strong, you're mind is strong. It truly is so true.

Oh, absolutely. I do. I do. I totally agree. If you're physically strong, it makes you more mentally tough. And that's basically it's kind of like everything dumps tails together. That's why it's I think one thing bleeds into another area of your life. You know, how many pull-ups can you do now after being in that training? You said you couldn't do any pull-ups. So how many are you up to now? Or now, I mean, you're not in there anymore,

but I do know, but I have two pull-ups with that. Because I couldn't do any. And I was just like, I will never not be able to do them and running. I go running on, probably every two to three nights I'll go running. But like, it depends. If I do them after, depends. If I do them after pushups, my arms are tired.

If I do them right away, my arms are stronger. So I can bang out 11 or 15. But it depends. I do reps really. I'll do reps. You know, I just want to maintain. Like I don't, I'll do roast you know I just want to maintain like I don't I'll tell you this is another secret and this is why I'm able to work out I Don't push myself in a way where I hate it. I So there's time to all get up on the pull apart and some days I'll bang out a whole bunch and then there's some days where my

Argilite leave me alone but I I do it. So every day your performance is gonna be different. So I try not to be too rigid with my workouts because when you're too rigid and you create these these standards for yourself and you don't leave them, then that's another thing that sabotages your ability to keep going without. Because you're saying- It does, it you're dead. It derails you. It derails you even diets when you're like, Oh, I'm going to tomorrow, I'm going to start this hardcore diet.

And when one, I don't believe in diets, the two, but once you do that, you're like tomorrow, I'm not going to have cookies. I'm not going to have this. I'm not going to have that. You're going to, you create such a rigid program for yourself, which you're inevitably, you're not going to meet. You're going to fill it. And then what happens is you're never inevitably, you're not going to meet, you're going to fail it. And then what happens is you're never able to do it because you're always constantly feeling like you're failing.

Absolutely. And I just feel like with the workouts, like, I don't go out to the park and this is me though. I'm not like today, I'm going to run five laps, which is like three miles. The damn is going to run. And there's days where I'm like, I'll just do a lap, and I'll end up doing six laps. So I let my body guide me to.

That's a really good point. I agree with you, 100%. If you push yourself to the max constantly, it will actually end up being a rabbit hole. It'll actually work against you, it'll be a detriment. You'll hate it too. You'll hate it too. You'll hate it. Yeah.

I agree. That's why I agree. It's a fine line, right? It's a fine line. Where do people find you? Like, if they want to know more about you, besides, of course, getting your book, which is, I couldn't have any time

to buy even, like, said how much I love it. I mean, it's so good. How long does it take? I'm going to put a link, by the way. I don't it's, it's so good. Um, if, what, how well is to they get to, I'm going to put a link by the way, I don't even have your physical book. I only have the, or the PDF. So I'm reading it on my computer. I'm going to go it. Yes. So I've been like reading it on my, on my computer. So I would show it, but I don't have the copy of it. But, um, I can send it, I'll send it to you. We can send it to you. Please.

Yeah, yeah. That would be amazing. Because I'd like to show a picture of it too. I'm just going to get me. I'm just going to get me. So how else do people find you beyond social media? Social media. I've had to embrace the world of social media, which was a huge obstacle for me.

I was just like, I never had any social media, but you will find me on social media. And I'm learning to love it actually because it's wonderful, because you can connect with people directly and all the messages, you know, I'll say this, I didn't expect my book to have such an impact on people and I've gotten so many messages from people going to different hardships.

I'm so overwhelmed. Like, it's really just moving. It's really just so moving to me. And so that's why I love social media because people are directly connecting with me and telling me how the book might help them, impacted them, helped them overcome something. And something that I didn't even expect would happen after the fact. But I'm on social, Instagram, Facebook, you know, I'm here on my website. It's at everypomperus.com because I have such a uniquely Greek last name.

There's not a lot of pompers this out there. So every pompers.com or at every pompers, you can find me on out there, you can find spigames on Hulu, and you can find my book for coming book proof on the Highness. It's beyond. I mean, the book is beyond. I've said beyond bullet proof just now, because it is a beyond. It's the book is beyond.

I'm telling everyone becoming bullet proof. Not only can you read, well, I'm actually going to read it again, because I feel like I said a billion times. There's so much information. I bet you the next time I read it, I will be thought, I'm going to get other things out of it. And when I do, I'd love you to come back on,

and we can focus on all the other trillion things that you write about in the results. We're gonna try those together. Yeah, that's absolutely. If you come to LA, you gotta let me know. Would you promise? Absolutely, absolutely. Oh good, you've been so great.

You are absolutely like just a great guest with such great information, super practical actionable items. And again, I couldn't be more thrilled to have you on habits and hustles so thank you for coming on This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Holla Taha, CEO of the award-winning digital media empire YAP Media, and host of YAP Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement podcast where you can listen, learn and profit.

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