Habits and Hustle - Episode 82: Tero Isokauppila – Founder of Four Sigmatic, Foodpreneur, and Author of Healing Mushrooms

Episode Date: September 22, 2020

Tero Isokauppila is the Founder of Four Sigmatic, a Foodpreneur, and Author of Healing Mushrooms. Here’s a list of some of the things Tero mentions can be replaced by some kind of mushroom: coffee, face masks, animal protein, BREATHING EXERCISES, and MEDITATION. No, I’m not kidding. Yes, you’ve gotta hear this episode! Tero may be an expert on mushrooms, but that’s not where his interests stop. An overall health nut, Tero and Jen discuss his routines, his company mantras, how he built a mushroom-based company into the success it is today and his pursuit of educating the masses on responsibly sourced natural superfoods. He even wrote a children’s book called “Santa Sold Mushrooms.” Seriously. Ya’ gotta hear this one. Youtube Link to This Episode Four Sigmatic’s Website Four Sigmatic’s Instagram ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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competitive vehicles exclude all other FCA vehicles. Contact dealer for details. Take retail delivery by 531-23. Jeep is a registered trademark. Welcome to the Habits and Hustle Podcast. A podcast that uncovers the rituals, unspoken habits and mindsets of extraordinary people. A podcast powered by habit nest. Now here's your host, Jennifer Cohen. All right, guys. Welcome to Habits and Hossal and we have a great entrepreneur guest for you today. His name is Taro, I cannot pronounce his last name.

How do you pronounce your last name? Isokal Bila. Yeah, that was never going to happen. Yeah, no. No, never going to happen. He is the founder of Four Sigmatic and for those of you who don't know what Four Sigmatic is, it is basically, it's like a mushroom company. So to speak, right? We'll get more into detail. But how would you define it?

So like a wellness company. Okay. That focus is on elevating daily staples like coffee, protein, skincare with the world's most nutrient dense foods. And big part of those nutrients dense foods are mushrooms. And people remember that mushroom part. So think of as a mushroom company but I'll say wellness company or super food company. Well you say it much better than I would ever. So I'm glad that you did. Well hopefully, yeah, I'm so glad.

But you're right, I just say mushroom company because I've known about you guys for a few years already and the good guys have really good products and everybody who's very much into health wellness a lot of biohackers I feel are really huge fans Yeah, what you guys have because there's so many benefits to the ingredients that you use So I don't know where to even start with you because I feel like you are oh my god You're going faster than me. This is the first one. Yeah, what's your speed? I'm 2.5

We can also incline. No, this is amazing. You understand not to like derail you from the actual interview, but this is the first time anybody has ever done that. They've always were running. This is great. Well, most people start at one.

I met two, and I thought I was going a little bit fast. You just like speedy guns all us over here. It's for you. We're gonna pace yourself because we're gonna be going on this for a long time. That's fine. Are you sure? Yeah.

Okay, I had to walk just a lot. Oh, right. Where were you, so where were you born? I was born in Finland. Okay. About two hours north of the capital, Helsinki, in a town in the countryside of Nokia, which nobody knows, but I guess it's world famous for the phones.

But everybody thought those phones are like Japanese, but no, it's a small town, about 20,000 people in Finland, and just them the outskirts of it in the countryside. So. And so when did you move to the US? Five years, five, six years ago. And so pretty recently, but this is my 10th country I'm living in.

So in between Finland and LA, there's been a couple stops. So is it just more for your own, like just curiosity and like life experience that you're moving from country to country? Yeah, originally, yeah. Finland is an amazing country. Love Finland. Two years running the happiest country in the world. Best education system. A lot of things are good.

When you grew up in a country, massive country that is like population half of L.A., you know, you're like, well, there must be another world out there. And for me, it was just cool to see the world. Now it's more for a purpose of helping others, but originally it was just to learn and explore and all that stuff. So first of all, I read that were you like a farmer or

you were farming in Finland? So I'm a 13-generation family farmer and last year we officially finished the transition from my father to me and my brother. But yeah, 13 generations at least since 1619. So why, like why forcing, how did you start even with the mushroom thing? Like how did it kind of evolve? Start from the beginning. Oh wow, yeah. Beginning, I was four years old.

Yeah, exactly. My mom taught physiology and anatomy. And she took me and my brother out foraging for food, berries and mushrooms. And that was where it started. And because she knew science and how it impacts nutrition, she teaches about fibers and yada yada yada. And my dad was an agronomist and teaches about the soil, the forest, the ecosystem.

So dad was Mother Nature and Mom of Science and Health. And then my great-grandfather helped to found an environmental school. So we went to like an elementary school where we learned how to forage and that was part of it. And then I studied chemistry and nutrition and about 15 years ago, one of the innovation award for discovering a rare mushroom. You want innovation award?

Yeah. So there was like, how old were you back then, 15 years ago? Did you look like you're like 11 right now? Yeah, well, first thing I, when I walked in, she was like, oh, you're like, I'm like, oh, I'm gonna get home alone. You do, you look like, I'm like, oh, by the way, you told me that's not the first time you've ever met.

I've heard a lot of that growing up. No, you do. And also, I think maybe it's a feeling that they are the happiest place that they say, the happiest place to live. Like, you don't have a wrinkle on your face. It's pure. Like, there's not, it's, it's crease free. It's a mushroom and the happy living, I guess.

A happy breath. I guess it's a combination of a lot of stuff. The combination. So 15 years ago, how old were you about? I'm 20. Okay, and you won this innovation. What was the product? It was a mushroom?

It was a mushroom subsection of a more popular, very expensive mushroom that was only thought to, that variety was only thought to grow in Hokkaido and then all the Japan and the island. But then, oh wow. Anyway, it's a whole mushroom substory of geeking out. But it's basically there's a mushroom that is like almost like a truffle for the Japanese and fancy restaurants that, you know, have limited supply and it happened to grow in our

backyard. But how did they grow in your backyard? There's a similar forest type. So where I grew up has the world's largest gravel hill because of the ice age push. We're going to go full geek on something. That's fine. I want you to.

There was a lot of ice in Finland and Sweden and Norway as you might want my to imagine. And doing the ice age pushed a lot of gravel. I created a mountain range that is like a couple hundred miles long. And we're at the end of the mountain range. And there's a specific type of pine tree. And these mushrooms all require something to grow on. They have to eat something. So mushrooms are more similar to animals than they're plants. So we share about half of our DNA with mushrooms. One of the similarities is that mushrooms will breed oxygen and expel CO2 plants or the

verse, and also that mushrooms need to eat something. Plants can use photosynthesis to create energy. So in this case, a lot of the best mushrooms, including this mushroom, needs to eat trees and tree roots. So it requires a sort of kind of tree. a lot of the best mushrooms, including this mushroom, needs to eat trees and tree roots. So it requires a certain kind of tree. So most of the best mushrooms grow out of trees. And there was a specific type of forest, with specific type of soil. That was similar.

So it was able to grow. So that's kind of what we got there. Specific trees, specific soil. So does that mushroom that you won the innovation award for still exist in? Yeah, I was, the government offered me and my friend who won the award money to start a business around it. And it would have been serving the 1%.

So our subsection of 1% serving initially star restaurants with this fantasy mushroom didn't feel compelled with it. So we donated the business to a university. A university health sink is still running that. And wow, yeah, it's still out there. So that, so that, I thought that was gonna be kind of like the impetus for you to actually create for a signal. No, my passion was always more of the everyday person and how to get help, how to be inclusive

and health versus exclusive and health, and more in physiology and improving optimal human performance versus serving a culinary experience once in a lifetime. So yeah, I was more interested in the health benefits of mushrooms versus the culinary side. You know, it's funny because I was saying to you before, I was more interested in the health benefits of mushrooms versus the culinary side. You know, it's funny because I was saying to before, I love mushrooms. Like, I love including mushrooms and everything. And I didn't know until recently that they are still healthy. I think people just expect, I think a lot of people think it's a throw away.

Vegetable. Vegetable. Yeah. Pizza. Pizza, exactly. Pizza pasta, that's exactly it. Can we talk about the health benefits? Sure. Of mushrooms?

So mushrooms or fungi are a kingdom, and when something is a kingdom, there's a huge variety. Same way as not all animals are meant to be your pet. Right. Right. Or people talk about plant-based diet being really good for you. Yeah, but if you go into forests, you'll find a lot of plants that will kill you. So the same is with mushrooms. So there is, and because of this DNA similarity, we're more prone to fungal diseases, but we can also use fungal healing powers for our benefits. So key point is that mushrooms are not good or bad. Plants are not good or bad. Animals are not

good in plant. When something is a kingdom, there's a whole range. Okay, so generally speaking, mushrooms that you would use for health can be split to two different groups. Culinary mushrooms, that's your butter mushroom, portabella mushroom, they grow on the ground, or they're cultivated, they're kind of squishy, that would be the grind. Like I said, talking mushroom would be a part of it.

She's talking it would be a crossover, but yes. Butter mushroom, portabella mushroom, and then there would be the grind. Like I said, talking mushroom would be a part of it. She's talking it would be a crossover, but yes. Butter mushroom, portabella mushroom. And then there would be these functional mushrooms that tend to grow in trees and they have more powerful health benefits. But the culinary mushrooms are great for fibers, so do micronutrients, minerals, B vitamins, vitamin D. So those would be some of the things

you could use mushrooms for. So that's why probably people think of them as a vegetable because they kind of are like there's no cholesterol, but there's high fiber, high nutrient density, low calories. But the functional mushrooms more impact your, they might also have B vitamins, and vitamin D and minerals, but they also impact your immune function. They impact your brain. They impact your stress levels. So they will have compounds that impact your endocrine system, your immune system, and just your nervous system. So it impacts it's more like software for your iPhone. So you know, if like apps and other

things you have an iPhone that make iPhone work, those are more like the functional mushrooms impact the software piece more. What would be considered a functional mushroom? So she talked it would be the best known, but Rishi mushroom is the most studied, REIS H.I. The Queen of all mushrooms, that's great for stress reduction, Chaga, the King of Old Mushrooms, C-H-A-G-A. A lot of these mushroomes are odd because they're usually Japanese names actually. So she talky, my talky, talky means mushroom in Japanese.

So a lot of the more common names are kind of like, like, exotic. Lionsman would be an exception. So yeah. And that's a kind of mushroom. Yeah, lexotic. Lions main would be an exception. So yeah. And that's a kind of mushroom. Yeah, it's a mushroom. Yeah. And are they readily available? Like if I went to Ralph's or Whole Foods or wherever,

would I be able to, I never see those mushrooms. Some of them are so good. Yeah, I would find. So she talky and no key, and oyster mushroom, you would probably find. Oh, I know that would. Those would be, and maybe my talkie. So those four, you would find more commonly.

The others are you'd go to farmer's market, but if you go to farmer's market, you'll find lion's mane. And it's getting more and more popular. So I think in like a few years, we'll find in a more grosser store as well. So an oyster mushroom is also a functional. Very. Yeah, super good for you.

Okay, so besides that, okay, so the, so the crossovers that vitamin B and all that, and other stuff, would other stuff can it's good for you. Okay, so besides the, okay, so the, so the crossover that vitamin B and all the, another stuff, what other stuff can it do for your health? You said it's good for your brain? Yeah, so generally speaking, all of these top mushrooms are good for your gut health because they get absorbed into gut and they're good for your immune support.

So pretty much all of the top mushrooms do that. And wherever you'll find bacteria, you'll find mushrooms or you'll find mushrooms, you'll find bacteria. So skin has the bacteria that actually not just the bad bacteria, but also the good bacteria that saves your gut. And so you've got a full of mushrooms. And if you have the wrong kinds of mushrooms in your gut, your gut health is not great. And if you have good mushrooms, and you're great.

And there's actually even a funny study out of San Francisco of mice that had the same daily routine. And they were fed a high fat low carb diet. And the only difference, the other group also got Rishi Mushroom. And the weight loss that the mushrooms that got the Rishi Mushroom are much higher and according to the researchers it was because of the improved got biome.

So got health and immunity happens in all mushrooms and then specific mushrooms of specific skills like stress reduction, nervous system, you know, the skin is another one that mushrooms can really be helpful. A lot of skin care brands have mushrooms and especially in Asia, Japan and Korea. Mushrooms are used widely in topical skincare products. Wow, so this is like an adapted generate, really, right?

Like mushrooms are. And so what's the quantity though? Like you have to have a lot of mushrooms to have any kind of effect. Yes and no, these top mushrooms are incredibly nutrient-dense. And what you need is basically like a pretty small amount of these specific type of polysaccharides to have the effect.

But the thing is you can't consume them raw. So mushrooms you should never consume raw. If you go to a salad bar, they have raw mushrooms, don't have them. Mushrooms have a cell structure that we can really absorb. There's a structure called kaiting. Kaiting, you can find them the lobster shell. So the same way as you can really eat the shell

of the lobster, you should need raw mushrooms. So that's why chefs and health experts have always applied heat and lipids to mushrooms. So chef would saute, she talky mushrooms in a pan with heat and fat, butter or oil, something like that, right? Or make a soup or broth, and that unlocks the powers of the mushrooms. When you do that, it gets concentrated. Good mushroom products are 10 times more concentrated versions of the dried

mushrooms. And dried mushrooms already concentrated form of the fresh mushrooms. So you have fresh mushrooms, right? You take the water out, you get a condensed version of dried mushrooms, dry mushrooms, you extract them, you get a condensed. So when you use a mushroom extract or a mushroom powder, that already is quite condensed version of the fresh mushroom. So, okay, so then when I have, when people serving salads with these raw mushrooms, I should definitely take it out.

I shouldn't be eating it. You don't have them. So at bare minimum, yeah, soups or sauté them in something. So then, so what, what, and I started to say, he does not hurt their health benefits So if you ever want something like fatty and deep fried yeah, rather have deep fried and okay or deep fried my talky Then deep fried vegetables. So you're basically like a mushroom expert You seem to know a lot about every single mushroom out there now

I know you got the innovation award, but did you farm mushrooms that That basically what the crux of the farming was for you back home? No, it was more foraging. So a big part of it foraging is an act of going the forest and picking up wild mushrooms. So that was it. The farming part was mostly in my lifetime, oats. So like oatmeal is a big thing Swedish company old leaves a big right pioneer So we use a lot of oatmeal oatmeal so ever since those kids. There's pretty much been oatmeal As an all that we grew up on is oatmeal Yeah, mostly my my both neither my parents really believe in In dairy and dairy right yeah, I mean they would have it in cheese and butter but less so yeah

It's funny because I feel like oat milk just has had it. It's like, it's having its day right now, right? Like, are we just willing to be hind on the whole oat milk? Well, a little bit, and it's not perfect either. How is processed and right to us. And depending on your genome, you could handle dairy. Like, actually, from a genetic point of view, I can't do dairy pretty well, but I would just not have pasteurized and a hominized milk.

But if you could have raw milk from a specific cow breed, like a hairloom cow breed that has completely grass-fed, that would be a very different experience, or even butter that gets condensed and if you use the butter milk. So even within dairy, speed, plant-based or non-plant-based, there's quite a big differences. But generally speaking, further in the food chain you go to, you more carefully you want to be with quality. Right, right.

So, the small fish you should care less about quality than a big tuna, right? You got to be... should care less about quality than a big tuna, right? You gotta be, so it doesn't mean that you should never have tuna, or you should never have dairy, unless you're genetically just completely out of it, but you just have to be extra careful quality further in the food chain you go. And with plants, you can kind of like get away from it a little more. Right, right. But if you get high quality, with high quality, you can consume almost anything. So again, how did you start this whole fascination with mushrooms? And if it wasn't

from the innovation award, how did four-signantic even become what it is? Apparently you're obviously an expert in mushrooms, but did you see yourself, like, were you consuming a lot of mushrooms, or did you have some type of illness or some type of, like, issue where then you start to consume more mushrooms and it's helped you? Yeah. What's the... When I came to the US, I realized that I should have probably been sick and have this healing story.

Because everybody in the health industry always has a healing story. Tell me about it. I'm a treadmill with them. They're obviously. And I'm like, I don't have a, I've never really been sick. I don't really get, I don't, I don't have a healing story. Unfortunately, it would, it would be, you could sell a lot more product.

Can you make one up right now? No. But yeah, I, part of it was just growing up and learning from my parents and my dad, who was my hero growing up. He really loved mushrooms. So that was like another fascinating coin. But then later on it was also

reverse engineering like what frustrated me was like the hype in health because I was once you've been in health and wellness for 10 or more years, you notice that there's cycles. There's these cycles and those cycles are not always based on like the latest research, but they're based on a marketing cycle. And it bothered me a lot is, hey, what's real? Like, what's the 80-20? Because it's unrealistic that you will do everything, like what's the best bang for your buck. And then what are the things that people need

the most help with? And even five years ago, but 10 years ago, it was all about like very, to me, very like surface level conversation of should I eat plants, plant protein or animal protein, or like how much of macronutrients should I take? Protein, carbs, and fats. And I always thought there was so much more importance

of the quality and then micronutrients, like vitamins and minerals. If you're zinc deficient, magnesium deficient, it doesn't matter what your macros are. You probably like your body is confused and certain body functions get slowed down or accelerated. And I knew that there would be that much important things in body, this information system such as your immune function, which is right now hot to topic anyway Brain and the nervous system. There are people who have perfect macros, but they're you know And is shaking or they have a nervous

challenges their nervous system is shot or yeah, and stress reaction is another one So I was always fascinated by it about that and I was like Reverse engineering is like hey what matters to true health immunity hormonal balance digestive health Brain health and nervous system those I felt were like much more fundamental than like muscle tissue Like muscle tissue is like not the best indicator of long-term health or longevity. It's just like after sort of point. Right, right. There's limitations.

So I was like, Hey, what are the things I can do to improve these? And for every one of them, one of the top answers that I came was round mushrooms. That was one. And then the other thing, for sigmatic, my company name means a very geeky way of like, on a bell curve, if you put all the foods in the world, you could eat every standard deviation from the mean, which is again, very geeky, is called the sigma. If you go for sigma, that's like the top 50 to 100 foods in the world.

And in the top 100 foods in the world, there's a lot of mushrooms. And like there's a lot of adaptogens that people don't know about. And I just felt those are both time worn. They've been used for hundreds, if not thousands of years, but also they have tons of scientific evidence. So that would be more exciting for me

to promote things that are truly proven, and there's not like, it's not like a superberry from the Amazon that we have no cool lot of. Right, right, yet. Blazing Deals, Boundless Options Its hot grill summer at Whole Foods Market from June 14 through July 4. Fire up the grill with quality cuts at the best prices.

We're talking animal welfare certified meat. Check out the sales on Bone-in-Rib-I, beef kabobs, and New York strip steak. Round out your barbecue with plant-based proteins, sliced cheese, soft buns, and all the condiments. Plus, sales on fresh strawberries, peaches, and more. Don't forget to pie, either. Get grilling at Whole Foods Market, terms apply. Was it hard to kind of,

for anything to become popular or to, or for especially what you're doing, people have to have the knowledge, meaning that there's a lot that the education part can be expensive to do. And so how were you able to bridge that gap? Because I do, I mean, maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, but maybe because I'm in the wellness space too.

I feel like your company really did take off in a way like where like I said, a lot of people who who know who are in the know are big fans and they and they're they also like well well my dream was to get all Americans to drink mushrooms and from from maybe it was luck as well no investor would back that up right you don't have one right yeah yeah so it was like it was actually awesome. It was a blessing in disguise. We had no money So it was about my personal just hustle right hand hard work and knowledge But because we couldn't afford to promote it were like hey, how do we get the word out right and How we did it was like your favorite health influencers favorite health influence. So it was a raiding for a cinematic fan That's how it was built like Like some random dude who's like, you know,

the top health influencers favorite source of inspiration, that person was just obsessed with for cinematic because of the innovation, because the level of knowledge, because how the products were made organic, wildcrafted, usually you can't have both, you can't have wildcrafted and organic. We were dual extracted, used to help only have hot water, alcohol. There's all these super like geeky things that we did that got them excited.

And once that person was that slowly started leaking into who was your first person that got behind you. Actually, the first people are pretty funny. They're not health as well as people, but early on in the UK we had a bunch of like really like surprising musicians that were promoting it. Really? Yeah, like who? Anyone I would know? Or one of the spice girls, Boy George. Oh wow. Okay. People you would not imagine. Snowboarders, like, I was like some of the early adopters. Early adopters, but then yeah. In the US, like, the really high, high end kind of health influencers that might not have the biggest platform, but they were like really in

on the knowledge. Right, well people looked to them for like real information, basically. Yeah, correct. But how were you able to like, so because mushrooms were obviously a natural source, and was there, how did you teach the public, or how are you teaching the public about the, I guess, all the benefits of mushrooms. Still, today, like, are you? What's a lot of trial and error and a lot of hard work? Because, like, what's the balance between information,

but not too much information, so that's always been the balance. And in person, you can give away more, but online or in stores, you can give so much less. So you kind of have to like tailor it to the channel and who's the audience. And so our world has a lot of layers. It's like inception.

So how long have you followed for a cinematic you go into deeper and deeper into the knowledge? But yeah, it's been hard. But it's mostly just a lot of hard work. Our team is super passionate. People will work for us. We do events all the time. We do places where we sample the product all the time where people can talk. We even have two cafes called the showrooms where we serve people free drinks in New York, one in L.A. here.

Another one. Where is the one in L.A.? I've never seen any. Really? Even free cafe. Yeah. Oh, and you just think serve your product all day. Yeah. Who's the rent in there? You? Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, I didn't know you even had that option.

Yeah. So don't you have people there just all day just drinking mushrooms up? Yeah. And that's beautiful. That's amazing. I didn't even know you had that. Yeah, it's beautiful. So then what was your first product that you launched with?

It was these like teas in Europe, there's a big culture in tea, which doesn't exist in the US the same way. People don't know the difference between good tea and bad tea, but we made mushroom tea, non-psychedelic. And I was going to ask you about that, but okay. And yeah, so yeah, it was this quarter-seption ratio elixir and then Chog and Lions mate But then when we came to the US we realized that people don't have necessarily a T ritual So we started making coffee and cocoa these top mushrooms and adaptogens are a little bit bitter and earthy and a lot of Western people including Americans don't like bitters, with two exceptions, coffee and cocoa.

So then those were easier platforms to height the good stuff in from a flavor perspective, because an herb or supplement you don't take is not gonna help you. It doesn't matter how many bottles of true nitrogen have you bought. If you don't take it, you're not gonna get benefit from it. So it was important for us to kind of like nail down because nobody has a

mushroom routine really. So like, how do you how do you integrate it into your daily life and make it fun? So do mushrooms really have a lot of protein then? Is that true? Yeah, they can. Yeah, they're complete proteins, like sheet talkies are a complete protein. And you could use them. They're important bellows because people use that as a substitute for a burger. Yeah, I would call it an abundant source of protein, but it has protein, but yeah, I would use shiitake over portabellop, but it's not like, yeah, you'd have to eat quite a bit, but it is more nutrient-dense than most vegetables.

So is there one mushroom that you would say is great for energy? Like, what's the best mushroom for energy? Cortiseps. Cortiseps is a very popular among endurance athletes, MMA fighters, what not. It's a mushroom that was discovered by the Sherpas in Tibet and in the Himalayan. They were like in altitude, hiking, they're getting tired. And suddenly they noticed that they yawks, the big kind of like horses last bulls locally that carry stuff. Started grazing on these mushrooms and they got a spread of energy.

And then they started consuming it. And it got to Western world popularity in 1992 or 1993 at the Stuttgart World Championships when the Chinese female runners broke first time ever and 10K, 30 minute barrier. And everybody was like for short doping. They got tested multiple, multiple times. They tested clean and the trainer just said,

we took a lot of courtesans before the race. Really, and then that became popular among iron men, kind of like triathlon, trail running, MMA, things that have to do a lot of VO2 max or ATP production is really kind of those consume, those athletes would be more in the know. So how would anyone add up, how do you consume quarter steps if it wasn't for your product? I mean, do people buy capsules? Usually because they couldn't handle the flavor. So they would buy capsules, but then you might have all kinds of fillers

and low-quality products in them. So either different binders or fillers or low dosages. So yeah, though. But you don't do supplements though, do you? Yeah. You don't do much capsules of that. We don't do capsules or pills. Why not?

Just because of people already take fish oil, they already take vitamin D, all these things. So it's just easier to have put it in something you would consume like a smoothie, a face serum, or, you know, a coffee. I'd be curious to use that as a skincare and see if it actually doesn't need anything. Yeah, no, is it like a big, is that a big skew for you guys? Like are you just launched it and part of that line is that it's also fully edible. So everything we do, I, I, you asked about, I mentioned about my skin.

I don't use skincare historically because I don't want to put anything on my skin that I can't eat I've never consumed any like it's not really the thing I do skin absorbs things It's so funny that we don't realize this we take a magnesium path and Relax but we don't think our skincare could absorb or all right It's our nicotine It is you would have patch in yeah in and we get nicotine into our system. But we don't think that the plastics, a lot of the even eco beauty lines have polomeres, polomeres are plastics.

So you put them plastic into your bloodstream and people think it's okay. And they just like, it's mostly water, alcohol, you, if you look at large brands like L'Oreal, I still live there. Yeah. If you look at their public statements, this is all public info, they spend three to four percent of their revenue on the product. So you buy a hundred dollar premium serum that has a posibly great quality. It costs at the company of dollar on what's inside and two to four dollars on the bottle. Yeah. So they pay two to four dollars on the packaging and a dollar on what's inside and two to four dollars on the bottle. Yeah. So they pay two to four dollars on the packaging and a dollar on what's inside and you buy for 100 bucks. That's kind of ridiculous.

So marketing and it's all marketing dollars that they're. Yeah. So our online is fully edible. Like we have a face mask that is also hot chocolate. So you can put it in a face, but also it tastes like brownie batter. Could I eat it? So I really could eat it? Yeah, it's made out of...

I make hot chocolate with it. Yeah. It's made out of kikow, not cocoa, not the processed cocoa, but a real kikow, a clay, which you can totally eat. And then spices, ashwakanda, a go-to-kola, re-sheet chaga. And you can just make a hot chocolate and and then slatter it in a face, or you can lick it from the street from the street. Wow, where does this case,

so I know you just launched it, where would I set, where would you sell this though? We do have a partnership with Sephora, but they don't have that product yet. So yeah, for sigmatic.com Amazon, but we also sold in all the natural product stores, like Whole Foods and Sprouts, depending where in the country you are

But yeah, so sigmatic.com Amazon is like well you everybody can buy it and then natural product stores your your co-ops and Okay, so what's the best mushroom for cognitive fun like you know being alert Prove your cognitive functioning Lion's main mushroom. So lion's main is used by monks for meditation. It's quite actually amazing. It's one of the few foods that contain a compound that can penetrate the blood brain barrier.

So our body's kind of split between half to protect the brain. Very few things can enter the brain to protect from toxins going in. So glucose and a few other can enter the brain to protect from toxins going in. So glucose and a few other things are the only ones. But this lice may has a compound that can enter the blood brain barrier and another compound that helps repair and protect nerve growth factors in the brain. So that's pretty magical. So lice main and then out of the adaptogens probably rodeola So, Lions main and then out of the adaptogens probably Rodeola, Rodeola root which is really important to us, Spanish people, Vikings took it before going to battle.

And- What's it called? Rodeola. Again, so with Lions main and that one that you just said- Yeah, again, is it all people can take it in a supply- Not in my form. In a supply- Not in my form. In a supply- In a supply- Not in my form. In a supply- Not in my form. In a supply- Inola for sure. But you can't use these lions mane or quarter-cepts in like

Possisos or pizza. Yeah, you can. I actually wrote a kind of a best-selling mushroom book which is not a high bar. I know. Called Healing Mushrooms. Who is your competition? Yeah, well then, there's a couple. Healing mushrooms, and it has 50 recipes on how to use these mushrooms in healthy alcohol, like mocktails, desserts, salads, and soups, and entrees. So there's like 50 recipes on how to use it. So absolutely, you could. What else did your book talk about besides the recipes?

The health benefits of mushrooms. The top, so it covers the absolutely you could. What else did you book talk about besides the breast of the health benefits of mushrooms the top so it covers the top 10 mushrooms and their health benefits in history and then 50 recipes and then I have another book called Sanisol Shrooms which is a children's book that tells the store or just eight eight to 10,000 year old story of Santa Claus and where it comes from an indigenous culture in Northern Europe. Oh, okay. With a seven-year-old or a four-year-old like that book? Seven-year-old, I think we love it. Four is on the fence. Oh, okay. I'm going to maybe pick one up for my seven-year-old. Yeah, for sure.

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Which are thoughts on that whole thing, by using like, microdosing for anxiety, for depression or just for overall health? Well, just like with anything, the truth is usually in the middle. So right now, there's generally two groups of people, one that are super anti-drugs, like drugs will kill you, and then there's the group is like, it's going to circulate and you should use it every day. So the truth is somewhere in the middle, but when you talk about magic mushrooms or shrooms,

we often talk about a psilocybin family of mushrooms, and there's many kinds of psilocybin, and we know that our indigenous people and our ancestors consume these mushrooms. So there's many kinds of psilocybin. Yeah, many, many kinds of psilocybin. And what we know of civil silence today is that there's no lethal dose, so you cannot overdose on it, and you cannot get

addicted to it, you actually built tolerance to it. So it's incredibly safe and the initial research on it. So in the Nixon administration kind of shut that down. So there was a period when mushrooms were brought to the Western world, and there were research, but Nixon administration kind of shut that down. So there was a period when machines were brought to the Western world and there were research, but then it kind of cut shut down. Last 10 years, John Hopkins, NYU, Imperial College in London, probably those are the best universities that have really good research, particularly Imperial and John Hopkins.

And the research they're showing is incredible. So on these psilocybin users, like two thirds of users would have said that it's like a top five most meaningful event in their life, 12 months after taking it. Not that moment, but like 12 months after they had consumed it, they're like, yeah, that was like as impactful life moment as the birth of my child or something like that. So that being said, these are not meant to be consumed recreationally.

And, but people are doing it all the time, recreation all the time. And there's a huge impact on set and setting. On what? On set and setting. And that just kind of says, like, where you take it, how you take it, when do you take it? So set and setting. Okay. So how I like to say is like, okay, you can achieve same effects with breath work as you can achieve or meditation as you can achieve with mushrooms. But breath work or meditation is like going surfing. Maybe there's waves, maybe there isn't. Maybe if there is waves, maybe you catch one, maybe you don't. If you catch one, it's really short. It's like maybe 15 seconds and then it's done, right? That's what breath work and meditation can do.

If you take mushrooms, it's quite going to snowboarding. A lift is going to take you up a huge mountain, depending on how big of a mountain. You're going to come one day or the other. You have a guaranteed experience. How you come down depends how good of a snowboarder you are and who's helping you and how Steve is the other. Right, we have a guaranteed experience. But how you come down depends how good of a snowboarder you are and who's helping you and how steep is the hill. So where do you take these mushrooms really matters? And I see so many people like with some home shaman like giving them mushrooms and I don't know if that's that. Yes. Amazing. So people should be, they're incredibly safe, incredibly powerful, and in the upcoming years,

we'll see a huge psychedelic renaissance happening, including in the US. I think it's happening now. It's on its way. But it's not something you should just be like, lacked a day'sically consuming, because they're incredibly powerful substances. And you have... But if you can't, so I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I have a few questions. So like, if it's not addictive, right, and you could become, you could develop a tolerance.

So why are people microdosing? Because if that's the case, they would have to, they would have to increase their microdose all the time too. Yeah, so. And what the benefit of microdosing is. So the answer is in most cases, they microdose because of lack of knowledge, because they don't know how to use it. You could have a strong microdosing protocol,

but it would be, you would take it every three days or five days or whatever, not every day. So there are ways how you would space it out. The reason with being is that you could reap the benefits on a daily or almost daily basis while still going to school, work, have your kids. So microdosing by definition is subperception, so you would have those without having an obvious experience. So explain that. So what, explain that.

So what's the benefit? What do people think the benefits are, my prediction? Depends who you ask, but neuroplasticity would be one. So improving thinking outside the box, so creativity would be a one use case. People would be like, hey, increase creativity. Wangevity, kind of like protecting and rebuilding a brain, which is very difficult otherwise. And then some people do it to relax, or if they're stressed out, or they feel stuck in

life, they feel that microdosing would give them benefits. Hey, it's Jesse Kelly. Ronald Reagan famously once said, the nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Americans are losing faith in the banking system and at the same time the US government could soon be headed toward a centralized banking system. How scary is that?

How do you protect yourself as the government gets more involved in your life? For me, owning gold is one way. Having gold that I can see and touch makes me feel protected. Having a portion of your retirement in precious metals is another way to feel protected. I don't own crypto, I don't own NFTs, and I don't buy meme stocks, I don't invest in things I don't understand. If you are like me and want to feel safe, it's time to call my friends at the Oxford Gold Group. Go to www.oxfordgoldgroup.com to learn more. Again, that's www.oxfordgoldgroup.com. So what's it, why do, why do that versus, it sounds like you can just like vape on like,

you can smoke pot weed, whatever whatever and get the same type of The impact of mushrooms to your brain is quite different than the impact of certain cannabinoids that end up in an all system. So there's a quite quite different reaction So yeah, that they impact your physiology in different ways. How? So think of like you as a child and people debate how many first years, but your kids first, one, two, three, four years,

kind of debatable, but in the beginning, the every new pathway in the child's brain is free. And what, in every living organism, including a child, the first rule is survive. So what the child uses is brain functions that needs for survival. So what is the environment of the child matters? What kind of child you will partly have,

kind of the nurture part of nature and nurture. And then the second rule of physiology often is that conserve energy. So if you don't need a certain part of nature and nurture. And then the second rule of physiology often is that conserve energy. So if you don't need a certain part of the brain, those roads get shut. So if your child's brain would be every highway in America, and the child only uses 20% of those highways, the other 80% gets shut, right?

But when you neuroplasticity happens, or in this case, you take psychedelics, those pathways that have been shut since you were maybe three years old, you can end use again. So you create, you can access different parts of the brain, and there's different brain activity that you might not have never had, or you had last time.

It gives up conscious, basically, right? Yeah. So what's the difference then between, is there a, I mean, my fingers should be an expert in LSD, but LSD, mushrooms, even ayahuasca, which is a plant medicine for those who, what's, they all say that they do the same thing, right?

And they're all being used for trauma, depression, anxiety. Like, again, what you said earlier, like too much knowledge is actually a problem, right? And they're all being used for trauma, depression, anxiety, like again, what you said earlier, like too much knowledge is actually a problem, right? Because people get very, very confused and then they're doing the wrong thing. I feel like what's happening is those are all becoming very recreational because people hear these buzzwords and they're mixing and matching and doing. Sure. Right? Happens a lot. Happens a lot, right? Right. Great. No, not so good. I'm very, I got trying to be Switzerland with these psychedelics because I know their power and how amazing

they can be, but in the wrong hands, they can also do a lot of harm. And by the way, LSD is also derived from Ericachid alcohol is these like mushrooms. It is derived from the mushrooms. Yeah, originally. Now you can produce it in other ways as well, but that's the original and they came from mushrooms. Okay, but ayahuasca is. Ayahuasca is a vine.

Right. So, and there's other like five amiodium tea from a sonorian toad, saliva and all these things. There's a million different plant medicines. So, they have differences how they impact our physiology. Okay. But I don't want to bore everyone with the details of how they each work. But from a more practical point of view, there's a difference on duration.

Like how long is the experience? Is it 15 minutes, four hours, eight, 12 hours, and that's a factor, and then the other factor is like how intense it is. So that's, which one's more intense? Like an ayahuasca, to go to the LSD, or DMT, which is ayahuasca, or five amyodium tea, those would probably be

or another compa, go Ibo gain, or Ibo gain. That's like 35 hours, right? Yeah, it depends on how you flush it. But in those cases, where you wet flush it, there's a, you can also take it in smaller amounts and you're not gonna have this flush, it's kind of longer conversation. But the key point is that these are tools,

really powerful tools, and you don't start on the double diamond when you start snowboarding. You should first talk therapy, journaling, exercise, meditation. You should do these things that are like preparing your mind for these experiences, and then you should go into an experience, do it in a place where you feel safe with people you can trust. I'm an advisor to the world's first legal psilocybin center. They're in the Netherlands,

and they offer, along with the team from Imperial College, a program that are like designed by the world's leading experts. It's completely legal. There's medical supervision. There's completely legal, there's medical supervision, there's so many things that many people who consume these are not prepared for, and then they have a bad experience, just not prepared for it.

It's like somebody who's never snowboarded, you put them on the top of a huge mountain. You love the snowboarding analogy, I do. Are you a snowboarder? I grew up in snowboarding. Yeah, yeah, okay. But so am I, I'm not really a a snowboarder? I grew up in snowboarding. Yeah, yeah, okay. But so am I. I'm not really a good snowboarder,

but I'm talking about it. Yeah, it's just like where do you start and how do you structure it. But all these compounds can be very helpful if when administered in the right way, at the right time for the right person, with the proper pre-work and post-work, and for a lot of people,

that shouldn't be, the second election wouldn't be like step one. Right, and the program, but like journaling, meditation, breath work, nature connection, cold exposure, talk therapy, these are things that you can do. And then eventually, when you feel you're ready, then you kind of, yeah, it's like, well, okay,

so there's been like, I saw I'm 60 minutes, a whole thing and like, a lot of my friends, they believe that mushrooms have actually helped them with their depression, with their anxiety, long term, although then I find people that I've met me who like do mushrooms every weekend. So how do you, and your advice is all great and I know that you're trying to be very politically correct, which I appreciate not really, because I want to understand. So in your opinion, because you're like really a no joke, I mean, you tend to know a lot about mushrooms of all sorts, do you think there is a benefit to trying shrooms if you have anxiety or depression?

Is there, like there's been tons of research on it, have you? And I've seen it actually. Yeah, because I have exposure to the research days about the corn. And you're on the board. Yeah, so but yeah, in the next 12 months, we will have radical

scientific updates about psilocybin and depression And that's kind of all I can say at this point, but there's your opinion what's your opinion? Yeah, I mean My personal opinion my personal experience is that these compounds are incredible for life purpose and truth and with life's purpose and truth, Dharma, you often a lot of stresses go away and compassion gets increased. Yeah, I mean, I came back from this ayahuasca retreat recently, right? And like 99.9% of the people there were like, like, the most biggest breakthroughs of

their life, they had like these great breakthroughs. Yep. And I was like the 1% that it didn't really do anything. I didn't have any major breakthrough. I didn't have it. And is that what you were kind of talking about, like in terms of, it depends on the person. Not everything works for everybody.

Because they were saying, oh, it's because your ego's involved in this. And that is it possible that some of these things just don't work on everybody? Yeah, we say with the right dose, impossible that they wouldn't work, but they would work in very different ways and you will not necessarily get the breakthrough. So the studies, depending on whoever did the study, the insulin stipend used to be, it's roughly that two thirds have incredible results, right, and one third does it. But if you look at for depression or anxiety or addiction,

two thirds getting healed is way better than anything out on the market. I've never seen anything like it, that's one thing, and I was like a witness to the people who are really having, no, I thought maybe I'll come. And if I may say, a lot of people might find that, like, they've got a lot of wisdom from mushrooms, but not ayahuasca or vice versa.

Right. So sometimes finding the compound that works for you, like, same with sitting meditation. I know a lot of people who just don't like sitting meditation, and instead they will go for treadmill. Right. No, or like, also, also, everyone at this thing, the breath work, I mean, I was seeing people like experience

like this crazy experience with breath work. And again, with me, I didn't really have any, that didn't really work. But it will stay when I was 17 years old, 18 years old, I didn't have like a crazy mushroom trip that I still remember. I think that was more impactful even today than probably a lot of other things I've ever done in my life.

There's very few things in wellness or health where you've been guaranteed an experience. Yeah, I think that's one. Do you know what is the one thing you can guarantee experience? What? When you're in nature, you go to the sauna and then you go to a frozen lake or ocean, guaranteed experience. When you go to the frozen lake or ocean, guaranteed experience.

When you go to the frozen water. Oh, you mean the hot cold, I'd say? Yeah, of course, yes. Yeah, that's it. And when you're doing it naturally, I can only imagine. But yeah, it's true. It's not, not everything is for everyone.

And what works for you when you're 20, when your physiology is very different, is when you're 40, huge difference. Right. Who's calling 40? No, I'm joking. No. I was 40, no, I'm joking, no, no. No, I totally agree with you. And I also think that certain things work for certain people

that don't work for others, but, or maybe not in this life situation, maybe in 10, 20 years, different things. Right. Like where you are in your life, the phase of life you're in, or where you are. I totally agree with that, actually. Okay, so do you consume mushrooms mushrooms every day just for yourself? Yeah, pretty much I consume every kingdom almost every day in some capacity. What are other adaptogens that you really think

are high on that list and tell people what adaptogens really are because besides you and I maybe some people don't really or listening on really. Yeah, the aftertidens become really buzzy word. It's coined by Soviet doctor, equalizer, Rob. And originally the idea was that the Soviet army wanted to boost their soldiers like every army, but they realized that giving amphitomins and other stimulants would boost the performance for six, 12, 24 hours, and then there's a huge light down, same kind of like coffee. We drink too much coffee. You feel good that day,

but shitty afterwards, you can't sleep, right? Right. So there's like Dr. Larson who find us things that help the performance, but don't have a light down the next day. And they originally actually looked at pharmaceuticals but then ended with nature. And they found the original adaptogens that were all completely natural things. And then the laser said that there's three things that need to happen in order for something to be an adaptogen. One, it needs to be safe and non-toxic and non-habit forming. So it needs to be something you can take every day without being addicted to it or having

a toxic overload. Second, it needs to have multifunctional benefits. So it impacts, it's not a sedative, it's not a stimulative, so it's something you could take in the morning and evening, and then it restores balance. So it's two directional. So it modulates body systems. And today we know maybe 15 to 20 real adaptogens The most famous one by far is jinsing pretty much everybody knows jinsing even though don't take it

The other one is probably ashwaganda so ashwaganda is even though it's a difficult word It's become pretty mainstream now and those would be cosmic examples. Other ones would be, what is Australoconda too? Australoconda is, so the heart part is, when something impacts a key body function like the endocrine system, HBA axis, like Australoconda does, when you calm down your stress, your brain works better. So when you're less stressed,

you're actually a cognitive function improved. So they often, that's why they seem like they can do a million things. But I would use Osprey kind of more when you're stressed out, or in the evening. And so I think I would use Osprey kind of more when you're stressed out or evening time. And, and because of that, you might be also more focused, better in new function. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brodio, we mentioned she's Sandra Berry's. Some people say Maka is an adaptogen that's kind of questionable a little bit. Yeah, that's a big buzzword too. Yeah, but Ulithro or Cyphering Ginseng is a good one. But there's a lot of buzz in the daptegens, but the best the daptegens are quite amazing, and I feel like everybody should include them into their diet in one way or the other.

It's all the ones you just mentioned, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, in your, like, so let's talk more about mushrooms, because that's what you're really the specialist on. Is there... And also mushrooms, I feel like it's just a super food, isn't it? Really? A super food that people really don't ever...

You always hear blueberry, salmon, you never really heard mushrooms. And now I feel like you kind of brought it to life. Like this... Yeah. Yeah, a lot of the debate has been around more of these animal and plant-based things. So this is a four-garden kingdom, same way as bacteria is a four-garden kingdom. So can you give me three ways people can use mushrooms

that they never would have thought of otherwise? Well, what we just did before we started, we made mushroom coffee. Yeah, coffee is one of the most common sources of antioxidants for Americans, actually number one source of antioxidants for Americans. And it's amazing for longevity, but it comes with two big downsides. One, it's kind of harsh, very digestive track, so a lot of people get heartburn and acidity of coffee can be harsh.

Second, is that it gives people jitters because it is assimilating. So finish people doing more coffee than anyone else in the world. Really? Quarter Finns drink like over 10 cups of coffee a day. And during Second World War we were attacked both by the Germans and the Russians and we ran out of coffee beans. So we brewed chagga mushroom as a coffee. And then after the war University Helsinki started studying it and realize they have all these health benefits. So by putting certain mushrooms in your coffee, you're going to have a coffee that tastes same as...

Right, it tastes like coffee. Yeah, but it doesn't have the acidity, so it doesn't give you heartburn and it doesn't have the stimulation because of these adaptogenic properties. So coffee would be one. The other one that I think people don't realize is, if you're gonna consume alcohol, and you're gonna have a party time, alcohol is like a vessel,

take things into your bloodstream. You should always put like mushrooms and adeptogens in your alcohol. And they, at least you get the benefits of those herbs and mushrooms with it. So making mocktails, quarter-sips, we talked about, you can make a quarter-sex on the beach, cocktail, and you're not gonna notice the flavor at all.

Really? We can hype them super easily, and that's another thing that people don't know. And then I would say, brags or soups. It's a more common way, but mushrooms have a new mommy flavor that we get from bacon and parmesan that like kind of flavor that makes us crave as well. So using mushrooms in soups and broads is another way.

I use that anyway. I think everyone does. Or bacon, actually. You can make sheet-talky mushrooms sliced and thin, put oil paprika powder on top of it and maybe a little bit of maple syrup, and you put it in an oven, and comes those thin slices of shiitake bacon. And I like that. That's super easy to make. It takes like three minutes to make, plus the time in the oven. So it's like the fastest way, and then you can serve people mushroom bacon. That sounds good. Why are you so expensive? Yeah, it's a very good

question. Often the commercially grow. I would say probably big reasons is poor cultivation methods and not enough demand. Not enough people buy them. But they are very nutrient-dens and you don't need to buy a lot, but they're not buying them because they're so expensive. Because everyone I know loves to talk in less rooms. Yeah. But that's why they're not buying them. That's go, baby.

I know, trust me, I'm a big fan of Costco. Let me tell you, you should be making stuff. You should be growing them and selling them, create some kind of farm in your backyard. Yeah, totally. You know, you should. So what do you do's your habits every day? Because obviously you're a very healthy person.

You're going about 90 miles an hour on this treadmill. Well, that's what anyone's ever got. A mind as well get a workout. I agree with you. Listen, from your running. You're sweating. You're a little sweaty. You want?

Get a little sweating. Yeah, I think it's great. So tell me what, what time do you wake up in the morning? Give me your day-to-day routine. So first of all, for me, there's no routine. I think there's a lot of seasonality, both annually, like some parts of the year are less busy than others. And then I try to actually incorporate seasonality to day to day. So... Okay. But from a circadian rhythm point of view, I try to keep it pretty consistent waking up between six and seven. I have beams in the morning, like some sort of blood

moving. Mobility thing every morning, that could be as simple as going for a walk and stretching out. Now I've been doing a lot of ashtanga yoga in the morning. So just doing the key point is not really a workout, but just wake up the body, stretch out, improve, I do a lot of like cars, like rotation movements for the joints, hydration is big. So I drink a lot of liquids in the morning, liquids before solids.

Now I've been taking like a protein shake in the morning, but sometimes I also like fast until 1 or 2 p.m. but either way liquids are more important than solids in the beginning. So you're not doing intermittent fasting or you're kind of doing it right now? No, I'm not. But I did it for like six years. Okay. But the key point is hydration.

Yeah. The other things you can kind of like tinker with. I call my mom. My mom is 10 hours ahead, so I face time her and sometimes my brother and my nephew who are on the other side of the world. And then I start the work. That work, the work that work.

And yeah. That was a great dinner. So great. Wait, where'd you park the car? Oh, the one I just sold to Carvana. What? When did you do that? When you were still looking at the menu, I went on Carvana.com and all I had to do was

under the license plate or vinn, answer a few questions, and got a real offer in seconds. They picked up the car already? No, I parked around the corner. But they are picking it up tomorrow and paying me right on the spot. Oh, no wonder you picked up the check. Yeah, about that. Uh, don't we're going to have these. Sell your car to Carvana. Visit Carvana.com or download the app to get a real offer in second. How many people work for a significant now? How big is it?

Over 40. Oh wow, okay. And you've never gotten outside funding? Well, it's kind of like, I have a couple business partners that we've sold our early employees of sole shares. So I have like, if we would need capital now, we're in a place where we could get it, but it just doesn't make sense.

So I have a couple other entrepreneurs and family offices that have like bought a small part of the business, but we don't really, a couple of even celebrities, but it's not really, I don't look at them as investors, but we want us business partners. Right. And so we're just trying to grow organically, profitably, the right way. So what's next for you?

How are we going to run? Oh, jeez, I guess we can, but I'm wearing the wrong bra. You must know the truth. But I can walk faster, she's like, no, I'm wearing the wrong bra, you must know the truth. But I could walk faster if you'd like. No, I'm just kidding. Oh, okay, I was. Well, from a very meta level, I just try to continue to learn, have fun and help people.

Those are the same things that I did when I started the brand. Okay. I think we just launched the skincare on the protein, so educating people about protein source things the skincare and the protein. So educating people about proteins or seeing skincare is big things. We have a mushroom academy that we've had for a few years while launching a new version of it. Mushroom Academy is an online course,

completely free that teaches people about mushrooms online. Again, 100% free and we're relaunching that. Wow. And yeah, just getting more finding ways how to talk to the everyday American, instead of just focusing on, you know. Why didn't you tell me about your, you sleep or on a nail bed for 30 to 40 minutes a day?

Yeah, I take a nap every day. That was part of the daily routine. I'm seeing this and you didn't even mention it. I was like, why didn't you mention that? You're like, oh yeah, I wake up. I have some liquids and then I made

you some yoga. Not once did you say I sleep on a nail bed for 40 minutes daily. Yeah. That was just kind of you. It slipped your mind. Yeah. I do a lot of off things.

Well, it's called habits in hustle because I want to hear about the odd habits that you do. Okay. I have a lot of off-its. Well, it's called habits and hustle, because I want to hear about the odd habits that you do. Okay. I have a lot of odd habits. Okay, well, one of them is that I have this. An hour and a half in, now you're telling me? Eastern European nail mat that you put on top of your bed out of just two travel versions. And you're basically laying on nails that are really close

to each other. And when you go on it evenly none of the nails will like penetrate your skin, but it's acro pressure So basically like increases blood circulation in that area and it kind of the zaps your nervous system out So when I lay on it I fall asleep almost immediately First couple minutes are painful and then that, I kind of pass out. And then I wake up the moment I move. So in like, and so you never sleep in on a nap. Don't kidding.

But if you move badly, does it like, basically like, you leave some marks, but it doesn't penetrate the skin. So how often are you doing that? How often do I do that? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, pretty much.

Okay, give me some other odd habits. That's a good one though. Yeah. So you've got this where? From like this like Bulgarian, like healer. And what it really does though, it just, you said it's acupressure, but it increases the stress-ball circulation in that area

and relaxes the nervous system. Okay, and then maybe some other ones. Well, I think cold exposure and breath work has become pretty popular now. Yeah, sauna is the only finished word in the English language, so I'm kind of biased towards sauna. I like the sauna too. And I do, you know, various funny breathwork exercises.

Do you like Wim Hof or do that for the thing? Or yeah, if I'm in a hurry, I think it's the best program if you don't have a lot of time or an instructor. It's cool because it calms your body but doesn't make you tired. So I like Wim Hof method as like a quick reset. And it's also easy to teach. So I've taught my whole team

So we have a team gathering we do that as a group What else to do as a group? So now what what you been holding out on me for the last hour What else are you doing as a group? You're doing Wim off breathing techniques with your with your team. What else? Yeah, we have all kinds of friendly competitions. It was different when the beginning, when everybody was like, it was a group of Finnish guys who would all

into the military, you could do a lot more things now. There's a big eight spread from like 22 to 65 in the team, so kind of have to adjust. We do have a lot of games. I think games like board games. I think games, like board games. More, yeah, kind of. But I think like games are really important for the brain. It's also a way to get to know a person on better,

say, is walking. We have a lot of walking meetings. So a lot of our meetings are actually like, hey, we'll go for a walk. And when you play games, you get to know the person more. Absolutely. Kind of remove their mask and you get to know the person more. Absolutely. Kind of remove their mask and the more authentic version of themselves emerges, but also teaching the brain

in different ways. So we have like this finished card game called Club 7. We play tournaments with the team. So it's like a tournament and who wins it. That's another thing we do. I agree with you about the game. So I have game night all the time. And what I like about it is that you get to see a lot

of people at once, so it's not. And you get to interact with people on a much different level and get to see people truth. Like, totally. People's true colors come on. Like, I've had friendships end because of game night. Let me tell you, because you see the people who are competitive or passive or nasty,

could they want to win or not? I think it was Plato who said that you learn more about a person in one hour of a game than a whole year of conversations. 100%. I totally agree with that. And so next time I have a game night, by the way, you're going to be invited. I love it. Okay. Are you going to come?

Yeah. OK. We can also play Sub 7 or whatever. Sub 7. Sub 7. OK. What other things do you guys do as a group, or just on your own, a habit?

Now we've actually been doing a lot of face masks. That is pretty funny, because almost have the groupist men. But that's another thing is self-care rituals. When you share it with friends. It's more fun. So some of the things that are too busy, we used to watch movies and stretch. So we would have a stretch movie night. So we put it on a projector, a movie, watch it, but we're also stretching the whole time.

So you get like an hour and a half stretch workout. Who's your event coordinator? I mean, do you have one? No. Who comes up with these things though? You, me or our team. I bet you that's a one of the not the only, but one of the reasons why you're really successful as a brand is because of those things. You build like a really good a solid, you feel like a community, they feel like family and I feel like your employees when they feel that way, they work harder for the cause

But we also like today is Wednesday and we have a working Wednesday where you're not in Wednesday's not allowed to talk to your team So on Wednesdays, you're only allowed to talk to customers and partners So Wednesday's you're not allowed to talk to your team members unless it's about customers and partners So so we also have these like rules where you're not allowed to You like it's not your typical real work. So you can kind of go through your to-do list. But I just feel like working for you, like working for ForSignantic would be very unique and fun. It's not like working for Microsoft, for example. That's why they call it the fun guy. Yeah, the fun guy.

That's a great, I've never heard that before. All right, well, you've been great. So how do people find you, what, give them your information? I mean, it's going on 70 minutes. I'm getting tired on this thing. You must be like, well, you're probably fine knowing you, but how do people find you? Tell everyone where to go.

Taro, I'm really bad. So, so, media, I don't have Facebook or anything, but I have a really bad private Instagram. If somebody wants to see photos from Finland, then I am Taro, but otherwise, a lot of the education we put, including the Mushroom Academy, can be found from four sigmatic on all channels. So, FOUR, S-I-C, YouTube, we have a big newsletter where we send out articles and education, social media, obviously, Facebook, Instagram, all this stuff. Well, you've been a delight. Like what? And thank you for coming on Habits and Hustles. We'll be going to the game night. It's going to happen very soon. Yeah. Thank you so much for... Oh, what?

How many calories did you burn? That's true. Thank you for reminding me to make sure how to choose the white button. Because you were literally flying on this thing. 262? Okay, and what's your speed? 3.5?

Okay, that's literally... People go at 1.8 at max. This is good. You're like the... You're like the athlete of Huffington Hustle. Amazing. This episode is brought to you by the YAP Media Podcast Network. I'm Hala Taha, CEO of the award-winning digital media empire YAP Media, and host of YAP Young & Profiting Podcast, a number one entrepreneurship and self-improvement

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