Habits and Hustle - Episode 91: Andrew Dudum – Founder & CEO at “Hims & Hers”, Cofounder of the Venture-Builder, “Atomic”

Episode Date: November 24, 2020

Andrew Dudum is the Founder & CEO at “Hims & Hers”, Cofounder of the Venture-Builder, “Atomic.” Building a wildly successful company, reimagining and redefining the medical sector, Andrew has time and time again shown his strength in founding businesses. Jen and Andrew discuss his leadership practices, where he started, how he funds and builds his businesses and even the several failures that never saw the light of day. From keeping it simple to finding a problem and creating a solution, Andrew has a wealth of experience and understanding compiled quickly especially for how young he made his success. Wonder what it takes to bring a company from giving stuff away basically for free online all the way to a 1.6 billion dollar evaluation? Hear it from the man, himself. Youtube Link to This Episode Hims’ Website Hers’ Website ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Did you learn something from tuning in today? Please pay it forward and write us a 5-star review on Apple Podcasts. 📧If you have feedback for the show, please email [e-mail]  📙Get yourself a copy of Jennifer Cohen’s newest book from Habit Nest, Badass Body Goals Journal. ℹ️Habits & Hustle Website 📚Habit Nest Website 📱Follow Jennifer – Instagram – Facebook – Twitter – Jennifer’s Website Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Only a DQ. Happy taste good. Welcome to the Habits and Hustle Podcast. A podcast that uncovers the rituals, unspoken habits and mindsets of extraordinary people. A podcast powered by habit nest. Now here's your host, Jennifer Cohen. Usually within the first few questions, it's like, well,

it's amazing how you got to $1 million in revenue in the first week. And then you so graciously say, yes, but people don't realize what happens behind the scenes that Forbes or entrepreneur, whoever doesn't mention. So I guess you know what, just to get out of the way so I can just be another me too. Why don't you talk about a little bit? What went on, besides what people saw on the front facing of the fact that you reached $1 million in your first week of revenue for HIMS. And Andrew, by the way, he is the founder of HIMS, which is probably like, you know, I, as fast as growing, I guess I can't even say that because it's a category that's so new,

right? In the telemedicine subscription based model that you started two years ago, that now like has been evaluated at 1.6 billion or what's the new evaluation of your of his now? Yes, we just announced that the company is going public in the next couple of months through a partnership with Oak Tree Acquisition Corp through spack. And so the deal prices accompany it 1.6 billion. Yeah, that's it. What are you doing?

I know. I know. I've got a lot of work to do. So yeah, you really do. So well, let's start like the fact that you are like an interesting cat anyway, because you were a cellist. You kind of didn't like,

you were kind of on the arcs side, the more creative side, and you went, then you went to business school, you went to Wharton, right? That's right. So how did you kind of like ricochet into this entire world of venture funds and what was your path before him? Yeah, so I think you were totally right. So in the beginning, you know, in the, my early years as a cellist, I was traveling the world playing

cello. I played hundreds of weddings in San Francisco when I was in my teens. I was setting up my cello with a little tip jar out in Union Square downtown San Francisco making money. I got my car when I was a teenager that way So that that was really where I was spending all my time And I was a part of organizations and orchestras and quartets and and you know

I think my family's kind of a mix of both the creative and the business side my dad is a self-taught Pannis but he's essentially a concert pianist. Can play any song he hears, he can jump on the piano and replicate it by ear. But at the same time, also has front-end zone business and it was an attorney. And so I think in my family, it was always this combination of the arts

as well as business. And so it was a really logical step for me to go to Warren and kind of counterbalance the artistic side of me. And I think it was interesting, you know, the way that I ended up in startups and ended up in technology was that it was the most creative route in business that I could find. But I was sitting in corporate finance classes at Warren, you know, sketching interfaces for mobile apps and designing, in PowerPoint, brand ideas for new companies. And all my peers, next to me, were paying attention and doing a really good job in school and they all ended up at Goldman and making a ton of money

in New York. I just wasn't where my passion was. I love that combination of creative, customer, consumer brands, experiences, design, and coupling those with business models that were really good business models and had sustainability. That's how I ended up in the valley, and Silicon Valley building companies, starting a venture fund in the venture studio, co-founding a whole bunch of businesses,

is just finding this intersection between beautiful design and art, as well as underlying fundamentals that make for great businesses. Because you were working at Atomic Labs, right? That was your... Yeah. So prior to him, I co-founded and ran a venture studio at Atomic Labs on San Francisco.

It's a couple hundred million dollar fund that we'd raised every couple years, angry by amazing people. Our partners were Peter Teal and Mark Andreessen and many others. What we did there was essentially designed and test and bring to market dozens of companies every year. We refined those down to just a few each year that actually, we did best to large amount of capital in and launch and scale. But it was this incredible pressure cooker of exploring ideas, testing ideas, and building companies over the course of the last six and seven years.

And so then how did Hymns come to be? You were doing that for a while. And you were, so in about a hundred of those companies, you said how many actually take on a life of its own then? You said 10, 15? Yeah, probably. Probably we end up building one in 10 companies, something along that range. And so in the last six years, seven years, we've co-founded about a dozen companies. And we've raised close to a billion or more in capital across those companies.

But from that one company that we ended up building that is now launched and him and hers was one of those companies, there was 10 or 15 behind the scenes that we tested and failed at and couldn't make work. So again, what people see is the success, but so much of it is that time behind the scenes. I know. So, okay, so let's talk about that a little bit.

So, how did you first, so then you're doing all this for like eight years, and then why hymns? Like, why did you decide that was going to be your thing that you were going to kind of go with? Yeah. that you were going to kind of go with. Yeah, there's, there was this interesting combination with him and hers where you had an incredible opportunity to help hundreds of millions of people, right? In healthcare, you're talking about $4 trillion market,

a multi-trillion dollar market that's been truly innovated in, right? And so huge opportunity to help millions of millions of people. And then also you had this combination of structural changes taking place. That made the timing of this business perfect. And as much from where you're always looking for those two things, you're looking for, you know, how do I impact a lot of people? How do I help a lot of people?

And then how do I know that this business is actually time-appropriately and can scale and succeed right in this moment. And with things like new consumer expectations of mobile technology, people pick up their phone, they want to click a button and talk to a doctor. Like that's a new expectation. People are busier than ever. High deductible insurance plans. Like the system is so broken and it was coming to this point that it just made sense

to go and build. And I think the fun part for me, because again, as a repeat entrepreneur and as a serial founder, how I see hymns and hers is a vehicle for healthcare innovation, right? It's just a brand. hymns and hers is a brand for health and wellness. And underneath that brand can live dozens

of different businesses, and dozens of different offerings and services that can help people live their best life or be the healthiest person of themselves, et cetera. Live their best life, that's like, such a funny cliche, live their best life. Oh, that's totally good. I mean, it's like access to things that make you feel better and are healthier.

And so, you know, jumping to Hems and Hers and building out this innovation platform for health was just, was too exciting. So yeah, starting in 2016 or so, I transitioned away from the fund and, and founded Hems and Hers full time. You know what's interesting, in this $4 trillion marketplace of healthcare, right? You have, it's very different. There's a big difference between wellness, I believe, and healthcare, right?

There is a major difference. There's been so much money spent and in fitness and technology, but not much on the healthcare, and there's such a difference. You know, have you seen like every day, like every time I think there's gonna, there's the market is saturated in the fitness space of like another app, another thing.

Lo and behold, another one gets that, you know, starts and it's evaluated at a crazy number. And that keeps on happening, but like it's like a small pocket. Why do you think that is? Like why is that? That none of the other pieces of the pie is ever like ever delved into for healthcare?

You know, I think there's been a lot of constraints in healthcare for a very long time. Starting with the fact that the whole ecosystem in healthcare is entrenched players. You got insurance companies, pharmacies, health plans, corporations, everybody's incentivized one way or another to make money for each other. Yeah, one of those incentives are really optimized

towards the consumer having an amazing experience and having it be fast and affordable and efficient. Right, like that has nothing to do with healthcare. It's about like reimbursements and pharmacy rebates and things of that sort. And so I think the entrenched interests have made it hard for people to build real innovation in healthcare. And then I think the regulatory landscape

has also been very challenging. You know, it's a new phenomenon that we can now pick up our phone, click a button and talk to a doctor. That was quite frankly illegal five years ago, right? You had to see a doctor in person or you had to pick up the phone and talk to that doctor. And so this idea of telemedicine, and specifically, specifically,ous telemedicine, where you can text message a doctor or they can send you an email

or you can take a photo and send it to them. That whole exchange is something that is brand new regulation, right? You're talking about two, three years old. And so for the first time, people can actually pick up their phone and interact with the doctor the way we actually pick up their phone and interact with the doctor the way we would pick up our phone and interact with everything else in our life.

And so I think that's been a really big constraint to the healthcare industry. And specifically technologists who wanted to build something of value in healthcare because we just weren't able to use the technology that people know and love. So then why did you like you got you have a lot of hair in your head. So why did you love like it could it could be for hair loss. What what made you think you know, you know, what I'm going to launch with hair loss products and erectile dysfunction products. I don't even want to know about that. But what were the two like what was your did you just see a major gap in the marketplace that people

were needing these things or that man were not being serviced? What was your reasoning behind it? You know, we, we, from the very beginning, have this vision of being, you know, that health and wellness platform for men and women, but we had to start somewhere. And so we went and talked to all of you guys, and we learned a lot, and what we learned, and it's not really a surprise when you think about it, men hate going to the doctors. We absolutely despise it, right? Unless we're bleeding from the head,

or we've been broken leg, like, we'll try to figure out and excuse to avoid it. But that doesn't mean that men don't wake up every day and you don't look in the mirror and are concerned about things, right? Just like everybody else, right? And so, you know, in their early 20s and 30s, what we would hear is that people are suffering from anxiety and depression. They're suffering from the fact that they have acne, the fact that they're losing their hair, and they're in their 20s and their 30s. And, you know, those are the years where they're losing their hair and their their 20s and their 30s and you know that those are the years where they're building their career and building a foundation and finding a partner and

getting married. So it made them incredibly insecure. We heard that people were suffering from sexual health issues but they were too you know uncomfortable bringing them up to a doctor and in in a lot of situations, these people didn't even have a doctor that they could bring it up to. Right. And so there was this massive gap between the fact that unanimously people said, yes, there are issues I'm worried about. And then when you ask them, okay, are you getting treated unanimously? No, I'm not. Right. And it was like, why? What is the reason? And so much of that was stigma. People were embarrassed.

People felt like they were the only one suffering from whatever it was. And so I think building a brand that not only made it easy for people to get access to these things and affordable, which has historically been very difficult, but also something that kind of encourages people to go seek treatment for all this stuff because it's really freaking normal.

Like if you are worried about, now erectile dysfunction and you're 35, that's pretty normal, it turns out, right? You're not willing one. In fact, like probably of your five buddies two other buddies are also suffering from it, right? Statistically speaking, I think just building a brand that normalizes health issues and, you know, sparks conversation and creates energy and excitement to go seek

treatment. To me, I think that was a really important part of the business because that was such a friction point for why these men and women as well were not getting care. I mean, yeah, I can see, yeah, I think that's true. I mean, for years though, I would always see, you know, you get all the spam about, you know, buy this pill, that pill, right? Like there was always access, but it was, it was kind of like a shady way of getting it,

right? So you guys kind of like made it unshady in a way, you know, you kind of branded it nicely and kind of gave it to people in a nice, you know, red bow, right? Like that's more than that, but that's kind of, because there was always access to those things, but it was like you're doing it like, you know, on the DL, right? Like, yeah, I mean, I think it's, you know, when you talk about things like,

things that affect your, how you look, right? There are always snake oil type, marketing and branding, right? Like use this cream and your wrinkles will disappear, use the shampoo, your hair rose back, all of those things. A lot of it's fake, a lot of it is just not trustworthy, it's not actual medicine. I think what we did for the first time was commit to only selling trusted clinically backed medicines, commit to you actually having a partnership with a physician and a doctor through the whole experience to make sure that whatever treatment you're getting is appropriate sure it's all affordable, like so many of those other things

which just put people off. You think about, I mean, here's like a crazy stat. Do I answer your phone? Yeah, Viagra used to be $65 per pill. Wow. The average dose was 10 pills a month. So men, and it's not covered by insurance. So men are paying $600 per month

for Viagra, which is no surprise when you think about their marketing. It was all these older white men in their 70s on a beach in linen pants. And it's because, like, literally, that was like the only demographic of dude in the country. Yeah, yeah, that medicine. of dude in the country. Yeah, that medicine. And so I think being able to bring it down to a price point in an accessible way was really important in unlocking the business that we built. Yeah, absolutely. But your marketing is so, I mean, your branding is so beautiful and on point and relatable and there's like an emotional You know, you feel something emotionally which what every company wants to do There's a there's a big difference between even building a brand and a company, right? Like where can you tell us how you were able to what kind some of the strategies that you felt like really

Why like what resonated in the fact that you were able to build a brand and not just a company? Yeah, I think from the very beginning, that was something we thought about and invested in a lot of time in. So for example, before we launched, we designed I think like five or six different brands for what this thing was gonna look like.

And we had a whole roster of names, like some of them, like triple point was one of the names. Like Admiral was one of the names, club room was one of their names. I mean, like all types of different stuff. Because we knew that you're getting to the emotional, did you think of those names or who was, who was the group thinking? Yeah, it was our team and then we had also amazing creative design resources around us helping us. Yeah.

But we knew that the vision was broad. We knew that we wanted to help people across dozens of conditions and empower them over the next 10 and 20 years. And so it needed to hit a couple of critical points. One, it had to be a brand that was broad. So no matter who you were, it could speak to you. Because whether or not you're rich or poor, black or white, gay or straight, like you are still suffering from hair loss at the same rates as the other guy.

You're still suffering from anxiety. You know, the women are still suffering from mal malasma, post pregnancy at the same rates. I mean, the numbers from a health standpoint are the same. So we had to build a brand that would speak to everybody. But we also had to build a brand that was not about the product because where we were launching and where we were going was very different. So it had to be a brand that was around the feeling. Like when you see it, it's beautiful, it's exciting,

it's different, it's like fairly irrelevant, I remember, right? It's irrelevant, it's hardly irrelevant. No, irreverent, irreverent, irreverent. It's like, it's like beautifully designed things you would never expect to be beautifully designed. Yeah. And so I think, you know, we just focused on that emotional piece because we knew we had

that broad vision and knew that we needed to be something that so many people in the country could resonate with because we had to, if we really wanted to help people across the spectrum in this country and across all ages in this country, we had to build a brand that resonated with them. So that's why we came back to Hems and Hers as a broad brand. So who actually thought of the name Hems and Hers? It was our first, it was me and our first couple of teammates. There was like a four person team at the time. That's a good name. Yeah, it's simple, really simple.

And you do the best, and they're simple. I was gonna say, like that's the thing, like I think a lot with marketing and branding, it's keeping it very simple, stupid, right? You don't wanna over complicate things. Can you give us a couple other strategies that why you think it was successful in the branding? You know, I think we, you know, one of the things that was I think really different.

And you kind of mentioned it in healthcare in particular, there's tons of snake oil, there's tons of like people pushing things on you over and over again, getting you to like, something. of people pushing things on you over and over and over again, getting you to lie on something. And I think one of the things we believed was if you could build a brand that was beautiful and curated throughout the whole experience, you land on the site, you buy the product, it shows up, it's stunning, it smells good, it tastes good, all of those elements, if those are all on point, you don't need to tell anybody that you're trusted and you don't need to tell anybody that it's trusted, and you don't need to tell anybody that it's safe and that it's medically backed and that it's clinically approved.

You don't need to blast the website with doctors and their white coats, you know, and big FDA checkbox logos, right? You could actually build a deeper level of trust with people by just building an experience and stuff products that inherently communicated trust and quality. So I think when you think of a lot of health care, you think of doctors' offices, and you think of marketing with physicians, and they're all standing in a row,

like 10 of them, right? And that's what marketing has been for the health care industry. And I think we just flipped that upside down. We said, you know, instead of us yelling at somebody that we're trustworthy, but then the experience is shit and it's clinical and cold and no one enjoys it, we're going to make the experience wonderful

and then hopefully not have to push and not have to sell because the experience itself will kind of sell itself. Can yeah, I think that's actually I agree with that. Do you feel what were some things that didn't work? I know we talked about a little I was kind of teasing you about the million dollar week that everyone keeps on you know focusing on which by the way is amazing obviously, but I want to know about some of the things that actually, like what did go on behind this scene, you said that you were in an overnight success, but even two years in the making is still not that, that's still pretty, pretty small amount of time.

So you did a lot of things right, What are some of the things that you did wrong that the people can learn from that are if they're starting a business or you want to start a business? Yeah, that's a great question. I think one of the most obvious ones that pop up is how we were thinking about building the brand and selling products.

So when we launched, we essentially were giving away stuff. It was come to hymns or come to hers, come get it for five bucks. And our thought was, hey, this is a situation where we want every single person in the world to try this. We want to make it as simple and affordable and as easy as possible to get, which I think is all, you know, altruistic things and all things that we believe in from an access standpoint. But we believe that that was necessary to scale.

You need to offer crazy discounts and you need to make it, you know, dirt cheap so anyone can try. Right. I think what we realized over the course of a year or two is that the things that we were selling were really valuable and the experience we had built was actually really seamless and people would have to pay 50 or $100 to come get access to something that we had on the platform. And I think what we ended up doing is, in a lot of ways, not doing the hard work of figuring out how to market the offer incorrectly at the price that it should be priced and kind of decided to go the cheap and dirty route. But hey, we're going to make this really affordable. Come get it for nothing, right?

And attracts customers. And so I think when you're balancing business, building the business and talking to customers and offers, you know, I think in the beginning years, our philosophy was all around that we needed to do that in order to build a big business. We had to do that in order to scale. I think it was just a lot harder work to actually go talk to your customers, learn about the

things that they love about the product and the features, figure out the ways to market to them perfectly, the channels at work, how do you position it, etc. to really convince them that this is worth buying. Once they buy it, convince them that it was worth staying on. And so I think I see a lot of companies follow that trend, which is trend we fell into. I think it's a trend that a lot of entrepreneurs and teams lean on for growth. But I think when you're talking about building and enduring business, at the

end of the day, you have to have products people want and they want to pay for them. And so you have to do the hard work of finding the right messaging, the right product offering, the right customer, the right price point that also allows for a great business and piecing those things together. So what was the mistake that you made that you found out the hard way? I mean, what we, what we get named one of those things that you did.

Well, we had, you're, yeah, we were, we were spending money and we were marketing. I think a message that didn't necessarily re-resonate. Well, not, it was resonating because it was like free, right? Yeah, exactly. Come free, exactly. Everyone likes free.

It wasn't building the brand, right? People weren't coming and being like, this is a value, valuable asset. I'm going to pay for it at building trust. Instead, people were knowing us as a free brand, a discount-oriented brand. And so there's emotional dynamics there too, where if you want to build something for the long haul, your customers can't always be expecting to get something for free,

or to get something at a discount, or affordably like a dirt-price sales, you know, sales dynamics. But they need to be able to and want to spend money on the things that you're offering. And so I think we did that wrong. I think it was an early mistake that we're really sensitive to now because I think when you're building

and investing in brand equity, things like that can actually erode it if you're not careful. Absolutely. And then when you pivot and when you switched it and did something different, I would imagine people also get very upset, right? When they're expecting certain things for free

and you're like, actually, you know what? Not anymore, right? Yeah, I think you need to like do the hard work again of finding the right customer that won't be upset, right? And that's hard. That's a really hard thing to do. But if you want to build an enduring business, it's necessary. Absolutely. More from our guest, but first a few words from our sponsor.

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That's hustlenewcom. N-U-C-A-L-M dot com. Hustle. N-U-C-A-L-M dot com. Like honestly on a side note, what do your parents think of this? You're like a baby, right? You're a baby. Yeah, I don't know what they think. I think they don't know what they think. I think they're a little confused by how this whole thing happened. I mean, honestly, are you even a little surprised at the success? How much of it did you think just, I mean, you did a great job,

but what percentage is luck, right? Like, you're 32, you're very young. Your parents must be like you said, like, oh my gosh, what's shocked. Yeah, I think the shock, I think, you know, I think you make your own luck, to be honest. I think most people make their own luck. You know, I think in the last decade, I think I've tested like over 100 businesses, to be honest. Yeah. And built a studio and venture fund around testing businesses and finding patterns and optimizing the data and understanding the distribution channels and the

business models. And so I'm glad we found one that has really worked, right? It took a lot of time, and a lot of them did it, frankly. Keep coming back. You got plenty of space. Oof, not how you would have done that. You like working with people you can rely on, like USAA, who has helped guide the military community for the past 100 years. USAA, who has helped guide the military community for the past 100 years.

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You know what you just said is so true. I think it's also practice, right? You've had more practice probably than most people because you've attempted so many times. So you kind of learned from constantly, like, I guess, you became resilient, right? You failed, you have to get back up again, you tried something else, you went through this story,

you got that door got shut. What was one of the businesses that you thought were for sure gonna make it was gonna be like a hymns, and it was just, you know, a dud. and it was just, you know, a dud. Oh man, there's so many of them. I know, just name a couple. But you thought, okay, this is gonna be it.

Years ago, and Chewie ended up getting built, which is incredible, like huge business cup. What is it called? Chewie. Oh, Chewie, yeah. Billions of dollars, right? And years ago, spent a lot of time on that industry, like the pet industry, food, supplies, insurance. I mean, if you look at spend in the United States, like people spend more on their pets and their kids,

like totally insane. It's crazy, I know. No, it has the dynamics for a really great business. But I think when I was approaching that business, this years ago, I approached it from a purely financial and business standpoint and didn't think about the human side enough. And so when you think about that pattern recognition, you have to combine both really well. If we had launched him and hers

as a place to come talk to a doctor and get quick medicine, and it looked like what you'd expect that to look like, it would have, it just wouldn't have worked. Yet if we had launched an incredible brand like him and hers, that only did one of those pieces. It would teach you about the issue, but it couldn't get you treated for it. It also wouldn't have worked.

So you need to build both sides of it. And I think in the last 10 years, there's been a lot of learnings of how you combine both and what the necessary balance of both of them needs to be in order to succeed. Do you see any, what other area do you think that there's like a gap in the marketplace that people are not really kind of feeling well? From all you're from hundreds of the companies that you've tried and kind of failed or kind of want, just you see, you've seen so much. on, you see him, you've seen so much.

Yeah, I think, you know, I think there's a, it a lot of ways I think the virus has been like a crystal ball into the future, right? Like, there are, there will be big winners and there will be big losers in the future. The internet's gonna disrupt so much traditional legacy industry and while it's slowly getting disrupted, you see how quickly it can get disrupted in a world where everyone needs to be technology first and there's industries like telemedicine or online education where it is so clearly is gonna be how people connect in the future.

So I think using that opportunity at once in a frankly lifetime opportunity with this virus to look at and see how human behavior is changing and what we can glean as to what will stick is a really unique moment in time. I think there's a tremendous amount of value to still be built in harnessing the world's knowledge base and skills and expertise

and then building platforms to let other people learn them and share them, exchange them. What? I'm sorry. No, I just think that to me, when I look at what's happening, you know, there's so clearly an opportunity to have better systems for people to teach one another, better systems for people to learn, better systems for you to become a specialist without all of the infrastructure and cost and a traditional university, there's just so many opportunities there that, you know,

harnessing all of those skills of the world and building platforms to let others learn them, I think, is, you know, one of the bigger opportunities in the next decade. I also think, did you just from the telemedicine space, right? I mean, I don't think it's gonna be going away anytime soon because why would you go to a doctor if you can do it online? And by the way, for much cheaper, right? I mean, you know, just from the fact that if you're like

a parent or whatever, you've got to get a babysitter as the time you spend just on bad can for, you know, being more efficient cost. I mean, I think if anything, this pandemic and what you've done has shown people that this is a real disruptor, right? Because it's really will change the way people move forward in their life. Yeah, my bet is, and again, this is my bet because I'm running this company. I think 80% of 80% of the reasons

you go to the hospital today, you will come to a platform like him is a hers in the next five and 10 years. And so healthcare industry is $4 trillion. 80% of that is completely accessible for us as a business. And I think you're right. And that once you experience telemedicine or experience coming to him and hers for something like acne, you would never consider finding

a dermatologist, scheduling appointment, three or four weeks out, going in person, getting medicine, picking up at the pharmacy, doing that every three months. I mean, it's just, it's just, you just wouldn't do it because the experience is so, so much simpler, so much more beautiful, it's so much more affordable. I mean, you're also doing things that I was actually, I didn't even, I haven't seen this, that I saw that you guys were offering with this whole pandemic. You kind of, you also kind of expanded your, your breath with COVID testing, you know, the saliva testing I saw. But the other thing that I saw, because that I've seen, but the one I haven't was these group therapy sessions,

or like 101 mental health sessions, that I saw in your, even your site today, that you're offering it for free for people. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, so we've launched a full mental health platform, which allows you to have group therapy sessions for free. So grief management, anxiety, depression, sleep issues, parenting issues, just dealing with isolation from the pandemic.

Those are happening every single day on our platform with licensed physicians and psychiatrists and therapists and counselors, so you can just join those for free. And then there's also a full psychiatric experience. So you can come talk to a psychiatric professional psychologist, a nurse practitioner about anxiety or depression, see if medication could be helpful, couple that with individual talk therapy or, you know, counseling. And so I think we just believe that that falls under the purview of health and wellness.

And one of the stats I heard most recently, which is an incredibly upsetting stat, is something like 25% of millennials have considered suicide in the last six months since the pandemic. Oh, that's a high number. So really high number. I mean, it's a number of, is like a terrifying number right of

two younger siblings and so, you know, those types of abilities to build a brand that gives people a place to come talk about this stuff and actually not only talk about it, but actually get treated for it and talk to the professionals about it, I think it's really powerful. I think it's really powerful. I think in 10 years from now, there could be 10 or 20 companies in the public market that are each worth 20 to 30 billion dollars all in consumer-oriented healthcare. Yeah, I tend to agree with you on that. There's been so many companies I feel like me two brands who are coming up now that are similar to what you do to some extent.

How do you keep on staying so competitive and keep on growing? At the time, you were kind of one of the only accentowns to speak. Especially if you're a good entrepreneur or if you're someone who is aware and observant, you're going to be like, I want to do what they're doing, right? So how do you keep on staying sharp when you have to be looking everywhere? What's your, what's your, I guess your growth plan or competitive edge plan? I don't want to tell everybody. Yeah, yeah. You don't want to tell everybody the recipe.

I know, I know, it's right. I think it's, you know, I think our team moves at a pace that most teams are not capable of moving, to be totally honest, I think. Yeah. There's like a naivete within our team of an awareness that they shouldn't be able to accomplish as much as they're accomplishing in such a short period of time.

So I try not to tell them that they're doing that too often. Right, right. I think there's a willingness to move fast to tell them that they're doing that too often. I think there's a willingness to move fast and there's a willingness to test and learn. And it's very similar to frankly, my background on a last decade, right? We are constantly experimenting, non-stop. Any given time, there's probably 100 or 200 different tests running on the Hems and

Hurbs platform across new offerings, existing offerings, price points, positioning. Everybody in the company is ingrained with that mentality of learn quick, iterate, test. And that means being able to launch something like the at home COVID-19 saliva test, which was the first at home saliva test approved by the FDA that we were able to launch, all the way to launching the full psychiatric care and the at home group therapy sessions all within weeks. This didn't take months and months and months, it took weeks. And so the team is just constantly iterating, constantly testing, constantly working with consumers to think about other things that we could help them with. And I think that consumer orientation

and passion to help them and then abilities as a lean team. I mean, the company is 100 people. It's 130 people in total. It's a small company. Yeah. You know, that ability to stay small and execute quick, I think is a huge advantage that we try to keep on our side. Absolutely. And I heard most of your employees are women. Is it still the case or not really, as it changed?

I think that is the case. Yeah, the engineering team, I heard. I think that's how that engineering team, that's good. Although I think we're making some pretty good gains on that front. But yet from the beginning, the business has been a really diverse team. If you want to get men to think about things, it's really great to have their wives and sisters and cousins and moms and aunts in the room to help think about how they could strategize, getting this guy to do something.

And I think the same goes for trying to help a woman with something, getting her friends around the table as well. So we've got a really diverse crew. The majority, I think of the business is women, the majority of our managers and leaders are women. So I think that diversity has been a huge asset for us. Oh yeah, absolutely.

Can you talk a little bit about your leadership and ideas behind what you think, what do you think you're a good, do you think that you have been a good leader? And what do you think the qualities are that make somebody a good leader and why you've been successful with that stuff? Or, or being a leader to such a, you know, ever-changing company like you have. me about my job is, and I tell my wife this pretty often, I feel like every two weeks, my job scope and role changes dramatically. It's almost like I need to rewrite my job role every month. Because as the company scales and grows, what the company needs from me

and where I can be highest leverage also scales and grows and changes. And so I think probably my, something that has served me well as a leader is just the dynamic nature of being willing to constantly reflect and adapt to whatever the role needs for me now instead of staying static. I think that's really important when a company is growing really fast. And then I think the other things that are important, I try to be super transparent with the team as much as I can, like maybe to a fault. I think I believe that if you hire really smart people and really capable people, they can take bad news, they can take good news, they can take news that is unclear,

they can take, you know, they can just, they can deal with it, they can figure it out, and they can think about it, and they can be a part of the solution. So I think, you know, my management team and I try to be as transparent and honest with them frequently, and I think that's really service well. And then I think, you I think another important leadership quality that I try to do as often as possible is just make sure people know, this is like a stupid saying, but I agree with it.

Make sure people know the game we're playing and how to keep score. Right, like are we playing tennis or are we playing basketball? Right, and like what's the game and what's where we going towards? What are we shooting for? And? And like, what's the game and what's where are we going towards? What are we shooting for? And how do we know that we're getting closer to that? Right?

What are the numbers or the metrics? What are the ways in which we as an organization will get signal to support that we're going in the right direction towards the long-term vision? I think as a leader, that's a really important element that frankly only you can provide. I mean, that's not something that levels up from the bottom that needs to be communicated off the top.

So I think that's how I think about it. But frankly, the companies grow so quickly. I've been a part of founding a lot of companies, but with each company it's different. And as it grows, you have to just reflect and change your style and behavior and characteristics because it requires a different role at a different stage. Yeah, I absolutely. Whether you're doing a dance to your favorite artist in the office parking lot, or being guided into Warrior I in the break room before your shift,

whether you're running on your Peloton tread at your mom's house while she watches the baby, or counting your breaths on the subway. I'm inhaling and long exhale. Peloton is for all of us. Wherever we are, whenever we need it, download the free Peloton app today. Peloton app available through free tier or paid subscription starting at 12.99 per month. Is there any advice that you can give people I would say the one piece of advice for any founder?

If you can have number one piece of advice, what would it be? One piece of advice. Yeah, number one. Just one. I thought that would be easy. I can get you can say 20 if you want Just one. I thought that would be easy. I can get you can say 20 if you want. No, I thought we were going to win. One.

We're going to win. One piece of advice that someone else, you have to make it easier that someone gave you that was the best piece of advice. And that you want to kind of relate, you know, kind of now share with other people. Yeah. The best advice I've ever got was I should probably, from my dad, is keep it simple, stupid. And you can like, think about that in different ways.

Like keep it simple, comma, stupid, you know, or keep it like really stupid, simple. And it's both of those things. And so I think what I see a lot is entrepreneurs before they've launched, before they've like done anything, they're just like building huge complex systems and experiences and products, feature sets, and they're they're building huge teams and like, you know, just like all of that. For the most part, I've seen the ways to have energy and resources in time. So when you're starting a company, when you're starting an idea, when you're testing,

and you're trying to find product market fit, keep it really simple, keep it really small, keep the team tight, and just find the one or two things that really resonate with consumers. It, you will not win on launch because you have the 100 feature set. You'll win because you figured out the one or two that matters and you've built a really great product

and business and offering around that key insight. So I would say keep it super simple, keep it, keep it simple, stupid as much as you can. Either one of those work. And when you were kind of fortunate, you had a lot of different things working with you. You started with a great team. You had a lot of great practice with all those, with atomic

and all those ideas that you're doing. If someone doesn't have those resources, and they have to be super lean, what are some strategies or what's the best way to raise money? What's a very good way of raising money and what to do with that money if you have to be super lean?

Yeah, I think that's a great question. You know, I think in raising money, there are two different questions. I think raising money, what I've seen the most successful is talking about the people you are serving and energizing the human on the other side of the table to want to build that offering and build that company for those people. I think a lot of entrepreneurs I know they are very tactical in their fundraising process. They're telling investors about the margins and they're telling people about the future revenue it's going to explode. And here's what's going to look like. And all the intricacies of the features and I think they miss off in the story. And I think, you know, I tell people it's a lot, don't let the simple facts ruin a really good story.

You know, I think when you're pitching and we're fundraising and this is the same as it goes when you're hiring great senior executives and leaders. People are human, so tell them the human story. Like get them excited about why you're building this and how it's going to help people and why it's needed. And if you can sell them on that, I think you have a much higher chance of selling them on giving you money and joining your company, et cetera. But I think a lot of people miss the story and they pitch the facts. Oh, and I also wanted just to add, I had a guy on the podcast recently who wrote a book, it was called The Unicorn Shadow and the guy was a professor, Dean, professor at Wharton.

And he basically is like a computer brain and it all he does is dad and research, like 20 hours of the day, about what makes a startup successful, what makes a unicorn company like you, who makes you, and you're basically his case study, not you, but your type of situation. And he said, when people come and raise money, when people are going to be giving you money, you know, it's not about the PowerPoint. It's about the person. It's actually about the person. Right. If you if the person is likable, who they know, it's about the circle of people that, you know, it's about you want to be working with someone you like who you think is going to be successful. It's not about the numbers usually on the PowerPoint as well, right?

And when he says that, it makes me think it's also like who you know. So it's about networking is a big part of it, it seems like, too. Like getting in the right circles, because you can be maybe someone's not going to want to give you money for A, but they'll, you know, you keep that relationship and maybe your ID at B or C or D can be something that would actually. Yeah, most of the investors for him and hers that gave me money had told me multiple times in the past, no, when it comes to other companies, right? Right.

And so, you know, the community is small. And so you're building relationships and investing in relationships because you want to work with great people. And so, you know, the exact opportunity isn't there. You know, you still want to nurture that relationship because at the end of the day, the people you have on your team in the early days, the people you have around your board are one of the greatest influences

in the company's success, if not the greatest influence. So I totally agree with that. Right. So now I have a couple of easier questions for you just about you. And then we can kind of wrap this up. Okay. Easy like some like the hot podcast is called habits and hustles. So. What are some of your daily habits that keep you on point. I sleep a lot.

I saw that in your pre show questionnaire and I was like how is this possible? You say you see like nine hours a day or nine hours a night. So what time do you wake up in the morning? Snoon. No, probably like seven or eight. My wife's over here like giggling maybe like on the foot of the eight. No, I think I my ability to get things done when I'm really well rested is in order of magnitude better than when I'm not. And so I think, you know, I prioritize sleep a lot. So go to bed early, try to wind down early, you know, try not to be a night owl even though that's my instinct. It just allows me to have a deeper bench to make better decisions more frequently throughout the days. I think that's something I've always prioritized and will hopefully be able to continue to prioritize.

So, were you doing that even like two years ago, a year ago when you were in the... So, were you doing that even like two years ago, a year ago when you were in, yeah, you always just went to bed like around 10 o'clock, 11, and slept for nine hours. By the way, they say, I mean, I'm sure you know this, but sleep is the most important thing in terms of productivity, right? Because if you don't have enough sleep, everything else, you know, basically gets thrown to the wayside. Do you exercise every day? Like give me some other habits that you do.

Yeah, I'm sleeping. Yeah meditate a couple of times a week so I don't totally go crazy. I limit caffeine a lot. I've found that I make worse decisions and I'm more on the front of my feet. Instead of like the back of my heels when I'm drinking a lot of coffee, which makes me reactive and quick, as opposed to thoughtful. So try to limit caffeine or work out as much as I can. Go for walks. Try to go for some walks. And then, yeah, I think just you're staying as balanced because the reality is, these companies,

these companies are marathons, and I think built a dozen companies and raised a billion dollars in capital for them. You don't win because you're working longer hours. It's just not the reality. You win because you're working smarter and you have better team and you your focused on the right thing. And so, you know, being really high leverage with your time and realizing that, you know, building a company takes a decade, not, you know, a year or two, and building systems to

be able to succeed over that decade, I think to me is, you know, where I try to spend more time. That's a great advice. I think people think in today's day, work, work, work to be successful, but it's about being smart with your time and being efficient with your time. A couple more. What's your favorite hobby outside of work? I love to plant big fruit trees, which is a strange hobby. So yeah, we have maybe like a dozen or two

dozen different apple trees and pomegranate trees. And I think it's just like a good way to get your hands dirty and be a nature, which is so different from being on a computer all day and building a technology company. That's so different. So like you're also your musician, your farmer and your, uh, and your entrepreneur.

Okay. Your favorite TV and your favorite books. And then we can like wrap it up. Um, see, so favorite book is Creative of the Inc, which is a book about, um, how Pixar has so consistently built great movies out of the gate. It's like how they've built their creative organization, how they've empowered them. It's just an amazing book about organizational structure in order to create repeat success. So creativity, Anklets, amazing book. success. So creativity and puts an amazing book. On the TV side, I really love the, there's a Hassan Manage Netflix. Oh, I love him. Yeah, he was amazing. I don't think it got, I don't think that's going to be more seasons, but it was like, I think they canceled it. But

it had like, you know, dozens of great micro 20-minute segments on cool topics around the world. So yeah, that was one of my favorites Wow, you just like ruined my day. I love that show. I thought he was so clever. He's so smart. He's amazing Oh, are you sure it's not coming? I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I've checked a few times But I hope I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's canceled. Oh, geez. Okay. And then, okay, one more, I forgot. If you can just, what's, who is one founder that you really admire?

One. Um, I admire a lot of them. I admire Steve Jobs of them. I admire Steve Jobs' storytelling abilities. I used to and still do watch all of his interviews, but pretty often throughout the year, just because his ability to answer questions and tell stories about humans is so powerful. I really admire Elon Musk's ability to commit himself fully to his ideas. He's made it clear that his money will be the first money into his businesses

and the last money out. And I think that type of commitment and dedication and a removal of safety nets and plan Bs is a pretty critical part of building something really uniquely successful. So yeah, I think there's elements of so many of them that I really appreciate. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for being on the podcast today, Andrew, it was a pleasure. Thank you for having me. That was great to chat. Absolutely. And if you ever come to L.A. Do you ever come you ever come to LA or not so often.

We're there every couple of months. We're down south every once and a half. So yeah, we can definitely catch up then. Oh, absolutely. I'll make you go in a treadmill with me, though. If you don't mind, of course. That could be your daily exercise. Perfect.

Good. Where do people find, I mean, most people know where to find you guys. Just for those people living under a rock, where do people find aim, hers, you and all the rest. You can come to forehims.com or forehors.com and within an hour get connected with physician and get treated for a whole plethora of conditions you might be worried about from the comfort of your home and get beautiful stuff delivered to your door to help it.

So yeah, you can go check out for him's or for hers.com. Thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. I hope you enjoyed this episode. I'm Heather Monahan, host of Creating Confidence, a part of the YAP Media Network, the number one business and self-improvement podcast network. Okay, so I want to tell you a little bit about my show.

We are all about elevating your confidence to its highest level ever and taking your business right there with you. Don't believe me? I'm gonna go ahead and share some of the reviews of the show so you can believe my listeners. I have been a long time fan of Heather's, no matter what phase of life I find myself in, Heather seems to always have the perfect gems of wisdom

that not only inspire, but motivate me into action. Her experience and personality are unmatched and I love her go getter attitude. This show has become a staple in my life. I recommend it to anyone looking to elevate their confidence and reach that next level. Thank you! I recently got to hear Heather at a live podcast taping

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