Haunted Cosmos - Evangelistic Aliens

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

In this episode of Haunted Cosmos, Brian and Ben end Season 1 (sad) with a barn-burner of an episode(!!) on alien abductions—asking the key question you should be asking when you hear these stories: Are aliens truly extraterrestrial and physical creatures, or something else?Love Haunted Cosmos? Get access to our exclusive show, The Dusty Tome, early ad-free access to main episodes, monthly AMA's, and livestreams with Ben and Brian by becoming a patron of the show: https://www.patreon.com/c/HauntedCosmosBuy the Haunted Cosmos book: https://www.newchristendompress.com/cosmos PS: It's also available as an audiobook!This episode of Haunted Cosmos is sponsored by our friends at The Ten Minute Bible Hour Podcast, great project hosted by Matt Whitman. His passion for God’s Word has driven him to release an episode every weekday morning—that’s right, every weekday morning—where he goes through whole books of the Bible in digestible single-episode summaries or multiple-episode series. Visit them at www.thetmbh.com online.This episode is also sponsored by Private Family Banking Partners.If you want to know more, click the link below to receive a free copy of the book:"Protect Your Money Now - Build Multi-Generational Wealth and Avoid Stock Market Volatility and the Coming Bank Meltdown" go to http://protectyourmoneynow.net.You can also contact Private Family Banking Partners directly at: [e-mail] of you want to make an appointment to talk to a wealth advisor click on the calendar link here:https://calendly.com/familybankingnow/30min.This episode is also sponsored by Squirrelly Joe's Coffee.Visit their website here to purchase your first bag! Share Coffee. Serve Humbly. Live faithfully. Support the show

This episode of Haunted Cosmos is brought to you by the 10-minute Bible Hour podcast, Private Family Banking, Squirrely Joe's Coffee, and our supporters at patreon.com. Did you know that patrons get early access to ad-free main episodes, as well as an exclusive weekly show, The Dusty Tome? Support the show today and get these benefits and more. And now, on with the show. In a biblical worldview, we don't expect alien life to exist. The Bible tells us Earth was formed to be inhabited

and the other celestial bodies were created for signs, seasons, days, and years. It was to Earth that Jesus came to save us, not to another planet to save another race of beings. Many have been taught that life arose on this planet spontaneously and evolved into complex organisms. If it happened here, they believe, surely it could happen elsewhere in the universe. Some believe that these space beings, aliens, hold the key to health and eternal life. and exit from an article at answers in genesis.com.

If you've listened to other episodes of this show, you can probably guess our stance on the subject of alien encounters and the UFO phenomena. Are all of these stories true? No, people lie. But some of them? We think so, yes. We do think people have seen strange things in the sky.

We even think there are a few cases of abduction that are extremely compelling. So what do we make of it? Because we also agree with that quote from answers in Genesis, we don't expect to see alien life, or at least not in the way the materialists want us to. Consider this passage from the Holy Scriptures, quote, and I will keep on doing what I'm doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. For such people are false apostles,

deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ, and no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising then if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve. That's from 2nd Corinthians 11 verses 12 to 15. If we don't expect to see alien life, then why does it seem at times as if we do? Our answer is relatively boring actually. We think they're demons. That's what people are seeing. Demons. Fallen, angelic beings set on deceiving, killing, destroying, and generally, continuing their war against the throne of God. No, these beings are not what popular culture considers them to be, organic life forms of a highly advanced extraterrestrial race, traveling to

other planets and galaxies using technological innovations so far beyond our current understanding that they're virtually magical. In the Old and New Testament, we're given countless examples of how active the spirit world is. We just usually can't see it. Think of Elisha praying for the eyes of the son of the prophets to be opened so that he could see their city defended by legions of angels who had the appearance of fire consider daniel's account of angelic watchers in daniel four standing beside the thrones of the kingdoms of men decreeing their ends think of the divine counsel spoken of in job and the consequences of those meetings on job's life what if sometimes however infrequent we do get a glimpse into this unseen world what if men do encounter the very beings paul warns

the Corinthians against. We believe this to be the case. And because it is the case, men ought to be on guard against the schemes and deceits of the enemy. In tonight's episode of Haunted Cosmos, we have a warning for you. Examine their messages. Look carefully to the quote gospel carried by these supposedly alien beings. If you do that, if you look at the messages people reportedly receive in these encounters. You'll find that they are anything but the friendly advice of a new species of sentient life, kindly neighbors from the star system next door. No, these messengers are evangelists, and they come with gospel, false gospel. Their message tips their hand. Their message reveals devil's scales hiding behind alien features. Elizabeth Clara was born in South Africa in 1910.

She was the youngest daughter of her parents whose name became infamous in its association with alien abduction. In 1954, Elizabeth's sister, Mary, told her about some local Zulu people reporting sights of what they called a lightning bird in the sky. The lightning bird, a malevolent creature of Zulu folklore, was said to summon thunder and lightning to villages before hunting the people in hopes of satisfying

an insatiable lust for human blood. Elizabeth, who claimed she was visited by a UFO at age seven, took interest in the story and went to investigate. When she ascended the hill, the Zulu people had reported the Thunderbird sighting from, she encountered a starship that descended from the sky and hovered just about 10 feet above the ground. Inside the craft, she saw a humanoid figure stare back at her before taking the craft back up into the sky where it disappeared. 18 months later, Elizabeth went back to the hilltop in hopes of the,

seeing the craft again. According to her report, her wishes were granted. Not only did the craft come back, but this time, the pilot brought her into the ship, where she was given a tour. The pilot, who called itself Akhan, insisted that she returned with him back to their mothership before she returned to her home. Elizabeth raised no protest and was eventually brought back to Earth from what she described as a garden-like vessel unharmed. Eventually, Elizabeth would reveal that on this journey, she had been told by Akon that they were soulmates. It explained that sometimes they took human women as partners to infuse their own alien race with new and pure blood. Since then, Elizabeth had become infatuated with Akon and sought to be the alien's wife. In 1958, according to her, that wish was also granted.

They consummated their marriage, and Elizabeth became pregnant from the union. She was eventually taken to Akon's home planet, where she gave birth to a hybrid child that was kept with Akhan, while she was brought back to Earth against her will. The journey has supposedly been nine years long for her, but had only taken four months of Earth time. In the time that followed, Elizabeth gave speeches at UFO events, wrote a number of books outlining her experience and views, and was mercilessly ridiculed by the press for what they considered to be the attention-seeking ravings of a lunatic at best and a cash-grabbing charlatan at worst. Maybe you think the same. Maybe you're even right. But the message she was given for the people of earth.

The message Elizabeth told the press, one she had received from a con, should give us pause. In all of her work, all of her speeches, all of her bouts with the press, she promoted an idea that is inescapably religious ideology.

The world needed only accept and live in harmony with what she called the, quote, cosmic consciousness, and then it would have peace and joy. Her book, Beyond the Light Barrier, communicates an explicit message of universal peace

focused on what can only be described as a religious environmentalism. She credits all of these views to the superior wisdom impressed upon her by this alien civilization. Though born to an ordinary Christian family and educated in a Christian girls boarding school in her youth, Elizabeth grew to reject the faith of her youth, instead growing into an ardent devotee of a materialist, universal religion of love and peace and care for nature that transcends all other duties. She credits this religious conversion to the message given to her by the aliens of light that took her under their wing. Welcome, listeners to this episode of The Haunted Cosmos.

I am your host, Ben Garrett, joined here by my friend Brian Sovey. Say hello. So good to be here, Ben. Hello, listeners. Welcome back. This final episode of the season. Yeah, this is the final episode of the season. And we really want this episode, this last finale episode of season one, to be the culmination of all of the rest of the season, where we're trying to answer the big question. And that question is, what is the play being run by the evil forces at work in the world? If you're, Brian, I don't know if this is true for you, but it's true for

me. When we started this show, I did not think that this is going to be a question that we're actually trying to answer at the end of season one. I thought we're going to explore some crazy stuff. There's going to be, you know, there would be connections here and there, but really, the interconnectedness of all these different episodes, whether it be sea monsters, which now seems almost innocent. Tame. We were so young then. I know.

So young and naive. But from sea monsters to mothman to vampires, all of these things seem so intertwined. Do you think so too? It is amazing how interconnected these topics are. And I think really that just drives to the heart of what we've been saying over and over beating this drum that the world is not just stuff. Yeah.

There are unseen forces that are intent upon promoting their message to people. Yeah, and another principle that everything in the world is always trying to catechize you. Yep. So what are they trying to catacize you with, the evil ones at least? We think, and we'll try to back this up in this episode, we think it's a new form of that old serpentine lie from the garden. Did God really say? Yes. But specifically, and we are going to get specific, as we look at examples of what may very well be considered genuine, quote, alien abduction, it appears that these entities are trying to convince man of a specific deception. And it's one of the oldest heresies in the book, and that is Gnosticism.

So, Brian, what is Gnosticism? And how is it going to relate to what we're talking about in this episode? Yeah, great question, Ben. You see, and actually there's a great documentary that we've linked in the description from Dr. Michael Heiser, who's a biblical scholar. Absolute Chad King. Yeah, absolute Chad King. And actually, unfortunately, he's likely to pass away very soon.

Yeah, at the time of recording, it's not looking good. By the time this episode comes out, actually, he might be with the Lord. But he has done some incredible work not only in the world of theology, and you can read his book Unseen Realm and things like that. Some of it's controversial, but it's absolutely work that needs to be reckoned with in its topic. And it's also a very fascinating work. Yeah, just absolutely fascinating. He has a documentary, actually, that he put out, I think, through Logos, Bible software called aliens and demons, evidence of an unseen realm. And it just features his work

and experience as a theologian who not only investigates biblical theology in ancient texts and near eastern culture, but also he has a fascination with uphology. Yeah. With the study of UFOs, unidentified flying objects or UAP, as they're sometimes called today, unidentified aerial phenomena. And this is a connection as I watched the documentary that I had heard from other people before. I don't think it's original to him by any means. But the way that he explained it really helped me understand. So I want to give credit to Dr. Heiser for some of the content in this episode and it helped us think through it. And you should check out that documentary free on YouTube if you want to watch it. Yeah. Nosticism is important to the topic of alien abductee stories and

contactee stories, as they're called, because much of the messaging that contactees report from these aliens can be described as nothing other than warmed over Gnosticism. Right. Or even explicit Gnosticism. In some cases, we'll see in this episode. Gnosticism is a very early enemy of the Christian church. You actually begin to see hints of the refutation of Gnostic doctrines all the way back in the New Testament scriptures themselves. You could, for example, read Paul's letter to the Colossians. And you find a lot of his language there, if not overtly referencing the Gnostic errors, it addresses some of the at least proto-nostic errors of the evil of the created world and some other themes that are really run rampant in Gnosticism. So Gnosticism was a big competitor with early Christianity for the first hundreds of years in the church's history and actually continues down today in many forms to compete with the Christian faith.

the Gnostic doctrine, sort of in a nutshell, is this. They basically claim that there is a true God out there, that he is far removed from us, but there is a true uncreated creator who created all of these other aons, which is another word in the Gnostic system for like entities. Yeah. And that one of these entities along the way

eventually transgressed the will of that true God, this entity's name was Sophia, and created a desire to create a being like himself. So he noticed this true God had created himself or herself. Yeah, I guess. Now that I think about it. I can't remember. And so Sophia wanted to do the same and be a creator.

So Sophia created the material world, created humanity. And so you see that in the Gnostic doctrine, the God that the Bible says is the true God is actually this malevolent false God. who created the physical world. He was created or she was created and was in rebellion actually. Rebelling against the good divine essence. In creating the physical world. So then the Gnostics actually say that the God of the Bible is the villain of the story.

So then to the Gnostic, when you read the biblical narrative, they would say that the hero of the story is actually the serpent. Common Gnostic L. So the serpent in the Gnostic L. view is the good guy. He comes along and he says, hey, did God really say this God is trying to deceive you? This God is trying to prevent you from gaining this certain kind of knowledge, and it's trying to keep you from transcending so that you will become like this God. Yes. And so the serpent is actually trying to give gnosis or secret knowledge to the humans. And the main heart of that secret knowledge

that the Gnostic false savior is trying to give to humanity, is that humanity has a spark of a deity in them from their origins as being created by these gods. So, salvation, in a Gnostic view, is getting this gnosis, this personal enlightenment, receiving this personal enlightenment, specifically the knowledge that you are semi-divine so that you can transcend your humanness and become something greater than human, that you can escape the physical created evil world, which is bad. Again, it was created in rebellion in their view. And so it's bad, and you want to escape it,

and you want to transcend your humanity. And so what's amazing about this, and what's important and relevant about this, is that these contactees stories that you hear over and over have a huge overlap with these kind of stories. You basically find that contactees from their supposedly alien, visitors receive a kind of spiritual evangelism that is in competition with the biblical truth. And they're actually directing mankind to their spiritual truth.

And what you end up seeing, and I think we'll be able to demonstrate this in the episode, is that all these beings end up doing. The actual content of their message ends up being just a perfect repackaging of the Gnostic false gospel for a 20th and 21st century audience. right? They basically say, okay, to a modern, what would inspire God-like awe? Well, an alien, which is a being that comes to you that is in terms of intelligence, technology is so far above you that it has to inspire God-like awe. And that is precisely why I think that we see all these major UFO phenomena and abduction encounters in the parts of the world that have been most catechized by materialism. So first world developed countries, you know, the remnants of Christendom is there, but it's being mocked now and it's dying out, and we're told to embrace evolutionary science and

materialism. And that is where we're seeing the most sightings of UFOs and alien encounters. Yep. Anyway, continue, I just had interjection. Yeah, it's as a great point. You see basically advanced intelligence and technological transcendence becomes like the gospel where the heavens become literally the heavens. I mean, they become like space, space travel, man becoming eternal.

through artificial intelligence and through a synthesis of man with technology the way that these alien visitors have done and transcending the need for war overcoming. But there's no sin, there's no repentance. They end up giving man an eternal destiny with no reference to sin or salvation. They end up giving men a godlike future. You get, and Dr. Heiser notes this in his documentary. One of the most fascinating parts is that even the pride of the contactee is inflamed. Because here you have this glorious alien being who has chosen you. Yeah. You are the elect.

You're special now. And you are elect so that you can become his evangelist. That is really interesting. You can share the good news that if we will listen to these aliens, that we too can become enlightened, we can transcend our humanity, which is nothing other than a false doctor. of glorification. Right. And we can become gods ourselves. Now, many of these, many of these aliens actually include messages about Jesus.

They'll say things like Jesus was an alien just like us. He was one of the chosen or they will attempt to co-opt. You see this in George Damsky, lots of other guys. And the play is like, well, you wouldn't want to go against Jesus, right? Right. Because even non-Christians will look back on Christ's life and think, yes, he was a, He was a good sage and wise prophet, you know. And so they're telling these people, well, Jesus was one of us.

So therefore, it must be true because, like you said, their twisted version of glorification is they have to make everything like them. Yes. And so they have to make people believe that inside of all of this, inside of all of us, there's a spark of the divine, there's a spark of God, which is twisted from a doctrine we actually get in Peter's letters to the church that we are to participate in the divine nature of Christ, but not in the way that they're saying. Yeah, we are made in the image and likeness of God, but we are not like they're saying, little gods who have this peace of God in us that can then

escape our physicality and transcend to deity ourselves. Think about how many false gospels of the overtly religious variety, like Mormonism, for example, make this same claim. Well, this messenger of light came to me and he told me that I was picked to become the messenger of this new faith or this reformation of the faith like Joseph Smith claimed. And he was going to do all this, you know, fixing of the church. And oh, here's the message. You can become gods. Even Alistair Crowley's religion Thelemma, his whole, the whole genesis of that religion was that he was given the title Aeon of Horace. So he's like the new Aeon, this Gnostic demon god of the ancient demon god Horus, who's supposed to help humanity transcend to that more actively spiritual

place where their soul is not passive anymore, it's more active now. Demon Cope. Common Demon Cope. Common demon Cope. Common demon trope. Common demon cope. With the banking industry in another tailspin and the Fed ready to raise interest rates again, many of you are asking, when will the madness stop? Today's sponsor, Private Family Banking Partners, will show you an innovative and trusted

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www.com. And we get, one of the things that you'll see, you will see a lot of charlatans in these type of stories, obviously. Yeah, George Adamski is an example of that, I think. Yeah, I mean, his images, for example, are cool, but also hilarious. He claimed to, George

Damsky was, he's big in the UFO, the euphology world early in the 50s, especially, when some of the stuff started to get really, really popular. But if you look at it at Mr. Adamski's story, you find that he's probably some kind of Charlotton. I mean, he basically founded what was called the Royal Order of Tibet before he got into the euphology stuff in the 30s. Also just, of course, it's connected to Eastern mysticism. Of course. They always are. It's basically a cult. It held its meetings in the Temple of Scientific

Philosophy. Adamski said that he was the philosopher and teacher of the temple. And so, I mean, on, let me just give you a quick, quick little, like, peek into the mind of Mr. Adamski, because he, they got a license to create wine, a wine making business during this time, because prohibition. Yeah, so they sold it as religious purposes, right? And then he said, like, they were making all this money. And later, in the end of prohibition in 1933, the profit started to dry up because, you know, everyone could make, well, the winemakers could get back into business.

And so Adamski reportedly told two friends. later that that's quote why he had to get into this flying saucer crap. And then later he he started to claim all these encounters and pictures, one of which I think was like a warming lamp for the chickens. It was like a surgical lamp. Yeah, that is. It was like all credit to this guy. He saw where the wind was blowing. And like Venus and submarine shaped objects hovering in the sky. And I'll look them up. Very entertaining story. But what's interesting is even the charlatans became enamored of or evangelist of this story. So Adamski, look, maybe he had some real spiritual experiences. Maybe Joseph Smith did too. Maybe they're even a mixture of charlatan.

Maybe the demons target charlatans to become their messengers. Because they are, they will convince people. They're good marketers. They're good salesmen. But at the end of the day, it's fascinating to note that even Adamski claimed basically the exact same system of religious ideology. formed over Gnosticism of transcending your humanity, the spark of the divine, all of these ideas that you see over and over and over and over again in these alien encounters. Yeah, and I mean, the original deceiver in the garden was very cunning. I mean, we even told that. The serpent was the most cunning.

And so there seems to be something in humanity that is particularly at risk of falling into that temptation. Yes. So the principle is why fix what's not broken? And so they just keep repackaging the same message. But not all of them seem to be charlatans. I mean, there's a good chunk of these people that seem legitimately to not only believe that they had these experiences, but it seems like they actually had them. Yeah, I think that some of them really did have these experiences. Oh, yeah.

One of the best examples in my mind is Whitley Stryber, and he was born in June of 1945. Now, he's still alive today. He attended his Catholic high school like all the other good children in San Antonio. and then he left Texas to study film in London. But before he left, he actually did also get a degree in literature at the University of Texas. Now, eventually he got a dream job. He achieved the American dream. He had worked his way up from a small town Texas boy to become a VP of an advertising firm in New York.

And this was at a time when the American dream was in its early stages of atrophy. So Striber really held onto the coattails there and wrote it to the end. and achieve something that we would all hope for. Could it get better? Well, Striber did think that it could. He thought he had more to give to the world than his advertising and management skills. So in 1977, he left that world

to pursue a career in writing. And just one year later, he published his first of many horror novels. It was called The Wolfen. He's actually still a very popular horror novelist. Then in 1981, he wrote his follow-up to it, which was called The Hunger. Both of these stories would be made into feature films eventually,

so his dream career now continues, and it started him off with a real bang. But then in 1985, when Striber was 40 years old, something happened. On December 26th, Striber woke up from sleep to find himself being carried out of his secluded upstate New York cabin by some intruders, and he called them visitors. He would only later give them this label, though. But they placed.

him in a tent that was separate from the cabin. And in that tent, they would beat him, they would prod him and experiment on him, really cruel things. He even said that one of the visitors looked like an old friend that he used to have in college. And it was so vivid. He thought that his friend was really there doing this, doing these things to him. And then when he woke up and, you know, began to look more into it, he realized that friend had died a few months earlier. And he had, like, almost seen his ghost that was coming to torment him. Thus, Striber's journey down the road of abduction began, and he found himself in the company of these visitors quite often with varying perceptions of what the experience was.

Was it good, was it bad? Were they trying to teach him something? Were they giving him help and learning some crucial knowledge or something like that? Like, what was the point here? But other times were like his first encounter, just plain brutal and unforgiving. striber described the nature of these visitors in his work, Summer of Promise, Summer of Danger from the year 2003. He says, quote,

Remember this, Earth has given birth to something we call the human mind, but the visitors view it as a precious resource of innovation and ultimately of ecstasy. They are indifferent to power, but willing to use dark appearances to give lessons. End quote. When he wrote about his immediate perception of the earliest experiences, though, He would elaborate with the following passages quoted from his journal entries on unknown country.com.

He said, quote, and again, this is about his most early view of all these things. The close encounters I had between 1985 and 1994 were scary, but only because they were so unusual. The people or beings I met were complex and in the end, gentle. They had a wonderful, subtle sense of humor. There were many personalities involved, obviously many different individuals. My life with them was spiritually and intellectually rewarding. They responded with deep understanding to the path I was on and worked with me as true masters work with a student

on the journey towards hired consciousness. This was an extremely subtle, paradoxical, and complicated experience. I encountered many different levels of being, some of them openly terrible, others more neutral, others sublime. I have no way of knowing if they were all the same or different creatures entirely. The message of my contact experience is therefore clear. Face the fear, and you will get rewarded by breaking down natural barriers to perception that impede you from interacting completely with the world in which you live.

End quote. Striber contended that overall, these encounters were beneficent to him, giving him higher levels of understanding that he could then share with the world. The visitors even gave him an implant in his ear at one point that they could use to communicate with him. They also, according to him, still use this device till this day to help him write things for journal entries on his website. In 2001, Striber published another book titled The Key. This book was the culmination of what he claimed to be decades of encounters with these visitors, filling the spectrum from good to bad until he had one milestone visitor.

in his Toronto hotel room in 1998. This visitor, in the form of a man, brought Striber what he called a, quote, new image of God. After a lengthy conversation that seemed to Striber more than two hours long, but he would later find out had only elapsed 30 minutes on his clock, the visitor left.

They had discussed everything from the Holocaust to climate change and even the idea of these visitors harvesting human souls for mechanical energy in their machines. Striber called this man the master of the key and was more certain about this encounter than anything else he'd experienced before. As time wore on, his view of the net positive good in these visitors changed until he became convinced that whatever good had been there before was now gone. What was left was labeled by him the dark side. He says this in another journal entry dated from 2003, just two years after his encounter with the master's, the key. Quote, I'm a realist, and what is now real is that the only thing that appears to be left

of the contact experience is the dark side. So that's what we have to face now. In any case, the experience I had and what happens now seem to me to be very different things, almost as if somebody good has left and somebody surpassingly evil has remained here. There are beings here who are hostile to one another, and some who hate us with a passion so great that it would be considered psychotic if it was displayed by a human being. There are some in a very complex and parasitical relationship with our minds, and some of these seem to be close enough to the human to suggest that there are hybrids of some kind. Do you see how complex this is? Are you following the forked moral path I am treading along? How can an angel rape and kill? Of course they must be

demons. I've got it all wrong. End quote. The alleged visits have had an undeniable and profound effect on striber as the man. From the Catholic Texan boy of his childhood, he's now known as the John the Baptist or Apostle Paul of the modern alien religion. This shoehorned connection to Christianity is no accident, though, for it seems he is beginning diligent work on a new book based on this, quote, new image of God, given to him by the Master of the Key in 1998. He says this in his journal entry dated September 16th, the year 2020, quote, For me, the good news is my new book, which is an entirely new vision of Jesus and what his teaching and his life may now mean to us. It's a deep dive into many forgotten tales which,

taken together, have the power to redefine what his ideas of community and morality can mean for us now. The following groups will just plain hate it, the secular academic community, the religious academic community, the atheists and agnostics, the evangelicals, the middle of the road Christians, and others I probably haven't thought of. So who's going to like it? You. You are going to love it, because it is going to finally tell the truth about this man and reignite the inspiration and power of his teaching. The book doesn't place blame. The gospel writers did their best. They applied their best understanding of the world to what they had experienced. But when Christianity became part of the Roman government, any chance the teaching had

of having its intended impact was lost. So Brian, this to me is one of the more compelling stories. And the reason that may have sounded a little bit crazy and jumbled and difficult to follow is because Striber's story is that. It's crazy and it's jumbled and it's difficult to follow. It's saturated with seemingly paradoxical claims about these visitors. And one day they're good. One day they're bad.

One year they're good. One year they're trying to absolutely over. overwhelm us. Brian, you know how sometimes you wake up in the morning? Uh, yeah, hopefully everybody does that. Sure, maybe, but do you ever feel tired when you wake up? Well, yeah, Ben, I used to all the time, but then I started drinking this new drink. It's actually called coffee, and it helps you wake up. No way. There's a drink that does that, man, I should give it a shot. You definitely need to try this. And when you do, you should buy your coffee from Squirley Joe's coffee. They're a thoroughly Christian company who sends you a great coffee at an affordable price. Plus, they even donate some of

their proceeds to Operation Underground Railroad, helping the effort to end child trafficking. Okay, wait, I actually have heard of Squirley Joe's Coffee, and they are really great. They make it super easy to order exactly what you want if you go to www.com. That's www.squarelyjo's.com and click shop coffee. And first-time buyers can sign up to receive 20% off of their first order. Just go to www.squarelyjo's.com or use the link in the description below. Squirrely Joe's Coffee, share coffee, serve humbly, live faithfully. But I did take a look at his website and did a pretty deep dive in his journal entries. And one of the biggest takeaways was that he believes himself to have had almost a prophetic vision of what he calls now the global climate disaster.

Interesting. Where he thinks that these visitors gave him insight into something that was going to be coming soon. And he's now using that as credibility to sell his views on everything else. Almost like, you know, in scripture, when they ask a prophet for a sign, and he gives them a sign, and then that establishes his authority. This is the same exact thing. And you'll notice the people that he left out of the list of who's going to hate this new book on Jesus. Jesus, he didn't mention the Gnostics. Because it sounds like a book they're probably going to like.

Yeah, the occultists and the Gnostics, they'll be okay with it. Yeah. One of the biggest things that sticks out to me, though, also, is the mention of the key, this master of the key, because if you've been listening to our other episodes, that should hearken in your mind. It should key you in. It should key you in. Oh, really nice. To Inocyan magic. And this idea that the egregors are communicating with us through occult practices to give us keys to unlock higher levels of understanding in the universe. Yep.

So here we have a really, really clear modern connection of these egregors, these ancient fallen watchers that are still trying to deceive us. This time, it's not through Inoccian chanting or anything like that. It's just through alien abduction.

Yeah. And visits from aliens. What do you think? It's what we're looking at here just is so clearly shapeshifter ideology where you have this core religious, fixed religious ideology of man becoming gods, throwing off the rule of the

Christian God, reinventing Jesus, did God really say? And then the details around that core ideology are shape-shifting at all times at different cultures and times to where these beings show up and they will fit that doctrine to whatever the hearers need to overlap with their expectations and experience so that they will buy it. Yes. Right. And you see it showing up. So in the ancient times, it's going to be mystic.

It's going to be spiritual and overtly gods and, you know, that sort of thing. Demanding sacrifice. Just very overtly. Yeah. And initially, when I started looking into all this, I was like, oh, well, you know, the gospel that they're bringing us is just environmentalism or just like a unified, universal religion and love. Yeah.

Peace and love. But it is that. Yeah. But it's more than that, because it's always about transcending. Yeah, they cloak it in whatever the current people will want to and expect to hear. So a highly advanced technological people like, we genuinely are, you will see this connect with things like North American nuclear bases. So I believe one of the things you'll notice in this phenomena is that, and we've mentioned this before, that the huge, the super majority of alien, quote unquote, encounters come from developed, world, the developed world. They come from first world countries and especially North America.

They also center very strongly around military installations. Yep. And specifically nuclear bases. Right. So, and I'm not going to show you all the receipts on that, but if you, if you go into the contact heat literature and you go into the UFO literature and you look at the basically heat maps of the sightings, I mean, you'll just notice immediately that things like war, military basis nuclear technology will be hot spots for these sightings. And as I was thinking about that, I thought, wow, this is perfect.

Because the cloak, the shape-shifting part of the ideology is this technological advancement lie. Basically that we're a highly advanced extraterrestrial race who are, you know, we're using our technology to achieve either light speed travel or wormhole travel or, and we need to talk about that in a minute. Yeah, yeah. Greater than light speed travel, even. and so we can get here to Earth in our spaceships

and we can bring you on board our spaceships and so they're basically connecting they're attempting to if you picture it like a like two ends of a plug like the male and female ends of a power plug the we're like the technological ideas that are rattling around our brain are like the connection point

where they're trying to latch on their obviously religious ideology and so they're they're staging these events, these sightings, they're revealing themselves around our greatest technological advances. Isn't it funny, though, how they seem to do that in a way that always sets them at least a few steps above it? Yeah. So there'll be, you know, Area 51 is always the stereotypical. So people will see crazy ships flying around Area 51, stuff that we really don't have the technology for. Yeah. And it gives them more credibility. So it's almost like they come from a position of authority to,

to inspect or watch. Watch. To Egregor. What's being done. Yeah. And then they almost, it's a secret knowledge thing where they're like, well, we'll help you take it to the next level. And that's almost they're in.

And then when you invite them in, just like everything else, when you invite them in, they can do what they will. Yep. Essentially it gives them power. They're establishing their bona fides that they are technologically advanced by manipulating sometimes our technology, even like, there are credible military witnesses who on record will say things like, yeah, we had UFO sightings around a nuclear base,

SAC base, a strategic air command base, and then all of a sudden all of our nuclear capabilities were taken offline. Yeah. I mean, there are stories like this where they sound insane, but when you look at them, they're from very reputable of government officials sometimes who are... Yeah, and they don't try and give an answer. They'll just say, this is what happened.

Oh, it was aliens. or we had these kind of encounters. And I think that it's clearly that shape-shifting part of the ideology. Just like the ancient Egyptian magicians who were able to leverage the power of the spiritual power to do magic, I think that the cloak now is technological magic. Nice. That's my theory. That's a great connection.

To give us another connection back to that ancient idea of magic, what we now think of technology, There's this guy named Billy Meyer. Yeah, Billy Meyer's a great example. Billy Myers is a really strange case. So he was a Swedish guy who claims that at the age of five, he started to have encounters with aliens. His specific claim is that he met with this old alien man when he was five years old names Fath.

S-F-A-T-H. It's really horrible to hear in your headphones, I'm sure. But F-F-F-F-F. Yeah. So S-F-A-T-H. So Essie. Svath was this guy's name, and for years, he would relatively regularly meet with this old alien man, and he would give him information, and they would get to know each other. Well, when Meyer was 16 years old, Svath died, and he was gone. There were a few interactions with other aliens in this sort of gap time. But then, long after that, he was contacted by another alien from the same place.

planet as Svath. But this time it was a beautiful young woman, beautiful young woman, of course, who named herself Samyasi. And Siam Yasi was supposed to be the granddaughter of Svath. So her grandpa had given her this message, like you have to go continue to meet with this guy. You know, you should try and convince him of all this stuff. The ancient connection, though, is that Samyasa is really, really close in spelling and pronunciation. to Shem Yasa or Shem Kasa. Shem Yasa and Shem Kasa are the Hebrew words for one of the fallen watchers mentioned in Genesis 6 and 1st Enoch.

In First Enoch, this book that's Deutero-canonical, it is basically giving supposedly another account of the Genesis 6 where the Sons of God came down in. Like a zoomed-in account. Yeah, and it kind of expands that. And it's crazy. One of the demons, Who's a man? Who's a man, by the way?

Is Shem Jams. Shem Yasa. Shem Yasser. And then all of a sudden, Billy Meyer is like, hey, Sem Yasser came to me. And what's, Meyer claims to be the seventh reincarnation after six prophets come into Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Enoch, Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Jesus, and Muhammad. And he is the seventh incarnation. Yes. So he supposedly. Yeah. Prophet. giving us knowledge. The job of the prophet is to reveal the knowledge of God

to help us ascend to a higher plane of understanding or existence. And where did he get this idea? Well, it's from being lured in by the wisdom of Svath and then the seduction of this demon god Semyasa. This is insane to me. Yeah, it's like this whole obvious, it's so obviously religious. So obviously spiritual. and all of the cloaking around it

is just like to me such a thin veneer of prop. Right. It's like paper mache. I know. Even when you think about, this is off our notes a little bit then, but buckle up with me. I am so ready for you to do this.

I don't know what you're going to say, but I'm ready. Go there with me. No, I just, for a moment here, I want to talk about the, the a priori, difficulty of highly technologically advanced interstellar travel. Okay.

I love this topic. And I know that, Ben, your expertise in your field before you became a world-renowned deacon. Archdeacon. The archdeacon of Refuge Church and a world-renowned New Christenum Press employee. Right. before that, what was your thing? I was a mechanical engineer that worked for a small contracting company on an Air Force base here in Utah. So what I did was the aircraft would come in.

It was the A-10 wonderful aircraft. Yeah, such a cool airplane. Yeah, cool airplane. It would come in and it would be damaged, of course, because it's always damaged. And I would be given a design by another engineer as to what the repair should be. and I would then analyze that repair to see if it was safe to fly. So I would do the math, essentially. And then depending on how bad it was, another engineer would do more math that I wasn't qualified to do yet.

So just a lot of engineering stuff. But the reason I got into it was because one time I watched the movie Interstellar as a kid. And I was really bad at math at the time. But then I watched that movie and I was like, I'm going to be an engineer. When did that movie come out? I don't know. it was a while ago. But even before that, I had been somewhat interested in, like, relativistic physics and quantum mechanics.

2014. Okay, 24. So I was a freshman in college. You were a young man. Yeah, young man. And I decided, after watching that movie that I was going to be an engineer, which ramped up the interest in relativistic physics, general and special relativity, quantum mechanics, quantum gravity, entanglement, quantum foam, black holes, neutron stars brown dwarfs white dwarfs all this stuff all the dwarfs it really ramped up that sleepy even though i ended up doing grumpy nothing astronomical at all also thank you for naming all the

dwarfs there i only named two of them because i don't know anymore i don't know any of the happy pappy mannacle send us a bottle we should be having something right now all right so look here's where i'm going with all that a lot of people will say oh nothing can travel faster than the speed of light because that's what we learn in school yeah the problem is just like most of the most of the things that you learn in school, especially public school, it's bogus. But not because it's actually untrue. It's because of a technicality. Nothing can move through space faster than the speed of light. That is true. But space can do whatever it wants. What? So space is able to bend at the influence of gravity and mass. In such a way that light

doesn't behave as it's supposed to. So you can have the illusion of a particle moving faster than the speed of light or light moving faster than the speed of light because of the influence that gravity is having on the space around that light. The best example, it's like super pop culture. Everyone should have the light bulb go off is a wormhole. So a wormhole is when you have two points that are really far away on a piece of paper and instead of traveling that distance, you bend the piece of paper so that the points are overlapping and you punch a hole through it. So you can now go through that folded space time.

Wait, wait. Are you saying, I wish the world was flat like the old days, then I could travel just by folding a map? No more airplanes or speed trains or freeways. There'd be no distance that could hold us back. What are you talking about? The song by Death Cab for Cutie. No, I did not know that was. I wish the world was flat like the old days, so I could travel just by folding the map. Okay, I'm sorry. I have a confession to make. Yeah, go ahead. I'm not a death cap for QD guy. I couldn't name one of their songs.

I don't, like, not just off the top of my hand. But anyway, so I'll let you ask your question. This is just a fun fact. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So the wormhole is the best example where space time is bent almost like a sheet of paper but in three dimensions in on itself. And you can pass through the interdimensional space. It will give the illusion that you're traveling faster than the speed of light to any observer. But you're actually just taking a shortcut.

But space can do that because space is malleable. Space time is malleable. It's able to fold in on itself. Oh, the wisdom of God, am I right? Wow, you are, you went like, I was thinking like in terms of the equivalent of like kids playing with little toy cars, like boom, boom, and then you came in and you're like a Porsche engineer. I was like, fast and furious. My question for you, Ben, when you're thinking about just some of the mechanics,

supposedly with these ships that, let's say, ships that travel across the galaxies and speed of light and zero point energy and all these things, the problem is, like, what happens when space is full of debris? Yeah. When a small, like, even a pebble-sized piece of space debris hits a ship that's traveling at the speed of light, physically what happens?

Yeah. So it goes back to the question of what do you do when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object? When you're traveling at the speed of light and you're something big like a spaceship, everything now is an immovable object. Everything. If you're traveling in the vacuum of space, so if there's the tiniest little thumb-sized asteroid and you're traveling at the speed of light and you hit the asteroid, it's going to destroy the ship. It's like a million Hiroshima bomb. Because force equals mass times acceleration squared? Force equals mass times acceleration.

Okay, not squared. Not squared. Man, so when you're going that fast and a small mass hits you? Well, really what you're not worried about there is force, you're worried about momentum. Because your acceleration at that point is zero meters per second squared because you're already traveling at the speed of flight. And momentum is mass times velocity. So it's just a reduced dimension of force, basically. Ouch.

And your momentum at that point, for both entities then, would be enormous. Yeah. Because momentum compounds, you have to conserve it, right? So, yeah, it would be insane. Now, I will say this. Most of space is a void. Yeah. But sure, there is the chance.

And if you're traveling at light speed, then you're going to be traveling long distances. And there's no way to accurately map with the movement of different celestial body. and the mechanics of bodies in motion in a vacuum, there's no way to predict whether or not you're actually going to hit something small that you may not know already exists there. Yeah, and it becomes this thing where you have like, you have to postulate increasingly insane technological advances

to be like, okay, now we have wormhole travel to overcome these vast distances of space, or now we have some kind of shielding apparatus that will prevent the actual ship from contacting. You end up having to suppose, like, technological advancement upon technological advancement, until it's no different from the supposition of magic. Yeah, exactly.

The problem that I kept running into when I was studying it was, sure, you could theoretically create a wormhole or a black hole if you could generate enough energy because energy is just mass in a different form. But if you were able to do that, the mass that you would need would overcome whatever vessel or planet you're on and would then just create the wormhole or black hole on the planet that you're on.

Which is why people have a genuine concern. CERN, with the CERN, large Hedron Collider, that things were going so fast and it's such a high energy that it could induce a small black hole that would swallow the earth. Like, they're not stupid. Yeah. The thing is that, yeah, like, it could happen. Like, the math is, it checks out. It checks out. It's physically possibly, theoretically possible. Yeah, it checks out as much as a wormhole does. Yeah, you're just like, well, the math lets us postulate this. Right. Could happen. So my point with all of that, actually, fascinating rabbit show. Huge science. trail.

Was that actually, when we start thinking about the trappings that surround these messages of advanced alien technology and things like that, we actually end up functionally talking about basically magic. Yeah. Manipulating the world in ways that are technologically so advanced that to us, they're just, they're magical. Right. Brian and I are pretty blessed guys. I mean, we get to make this podcast together for all of you. And because of that, we get introduced to a lot of really. the amazing other podcasts.

One of those that we've come to know and love is the 10-minute Bible Hour podcast. That's right, Ben. The 10-minute Bible Hour podcast is hosted by our friend Matt Whitman. In this project, he's got going, it really is awesome. His passion for God's Word has driven him to release an episode every weekday morning. That's insane. You heard us right. Every weekday morning.

Where he goes through whole books of the Bible in single episode summaries or multiple episode series. And he breaks the Bible down quickly and concisely, keeping the episodes short, I mean, it is called the 10-minute Bible Hour, and very easy to digest. The 10-minute Bible Hour podcast is a great way to make fun, deep-dive Bible study a part of your daily rhythm. And you can find the 10-minute Bible Hour podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or anywhere else you prefer to get your shows. Or better yet, go to www.com. com. That's the mbh.com, and there's a link in the

description for that, by the way, to find all of the 10-minute Bible Hour podcast episodes. While you're there, tell Matt that we said hello. Cheers. And when you look back at the history of these kinds of ideas and how they come about and interact with ancient

cultures and up through today with the UFO phenomena, you find that that's basically what you're looking at. Yeah. Is a spiritual, magical phenomena that even, I mean, man, the fact that Billy what's his name, Meyer. Billy Meyer. That the name of the entity is this hyper-specific, basically the name of an ancient demon. Yeah.

That showed up. The difference is negligible. I'm like, either Billy Meyer was like really, really a genius in terms of his Charlottonson and studied like ancient, I guess, first Enoch. And it was like, yeah, I'm going to play off this. this whole Inakian demon thing, and maybe he was just a huge genius on that level. But it seems to me like it's at least plausible

that him or people like him have had real experiences, and some of these things are just, hey, let's run the same play again. We know that it's tempting. Let's repackage it. Let's find somebody charismatic. It's the same play being run all over again. Now, the space and the speed of light stuff,

that you brought up, it's actually a really good segue into what's going to be our final story of the season. Wow, this is very sad. It's going to be our final story of the season. But before we get there, one of the big, like, hot button points of discussion

in all of this is the idea of summoning, summoning an alien to come to you. And what used to be, you know, the tool used to do that used to be in Anecian magic and the chanting of these keys. And some people still use that. But now it seems to be more like meditative and extending yourself out to the universe.

And then at the speed of thought, people seem to claim to be able to have a UFO appear in the sky instantaneously. The speed of light is problematic there unless they have a wormhole machine that they can just do whatever they want with any old time. And so, Brian, I'd like for you to close us out this season. and tell the listeners the story of what's called Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind. Yeah, absolutely. Well, Close Encounter is actually a fairly technical system of describing alien experiences.

It's basically an event in which a person witnesses a UFO or supposedly alien technology in some way. Jayon Heinek is the guy behind essentially an ascending scale of encounter importance or, intensity in his 1972 book, The UFO Experience, a scientific inquiry.

GM Heinek is a guy that'll show up all over euphology if you follow this world at all. He, and actually, he was the guy, so like the close encounter of the third kind, and that's his thing.

Yeah, that's his thing. He made up that system. I think he has a cameo in the movie. Really? I think he might have a cameo in the movie. Man, I'm a sucker for that kind of thing. Yeah, I know. It's pretty wild.

I love that. So he claimed that a close encounter must be one that in within 500 feet. And after that, the scale applies as follows. A close encounter of the first kind are visual sightings of a UFO within 500 feet that show considerable detail. Close encounter of the second kind is one where the UFO appears to have a physical

effect on something. So you could have like electronics going haywire, radio going haywire, animals barking, paralysis, things like that. You hear stories surrounding the mothman like we talked about where there's UFO. foes overhead and the TV starts doing, you know, fuzz and... Or even the sleep paralysis of that one guy, Lawrence Gray. Yes, same exact kind of thing. A close encounter of the third kind is one in which an animated entity is present and visible.

So you can think of the story from the cold open of Elizabeth Clare, seeing Acon in the craft as he flew it. That was a third kind close encounter. Then a fourth kind encounter, as we get more intense on the scale, is one that involves alleged abduction. what we've been talking about today with aliens actually going one step further from merely presenting themselves to people in their ships but actually now taking people on board, experimenting with them in some way. And what's really interesting about these kind of encounters is that there's actually a huge overlap between this kind of encounter and other phenomena. I mean, there have been UFO investigators like Jacques Valet as well as,

well as Gwen Dean and others who have noted parallels. I think I mentioned this in a previous episode between alien abduction and satanic ritual abuse. Gwen Dean actually noted 44 connections between alien abduction stories and satanic ritual abuse stories at the alien abduction conference held in June of 1992 at MIT and Cambridge. So this isn't like an obscure idea. So what's the idea there? Is it that people are being groomed?

Is it, could it be one or the other? What's going on? So there's multiple ideas there. Some of them are like, you have merely physical, skeptical explanations for these things. Sure. Which would be that there's like mass hysteria going on with some kind of brain problem combined with people's suggestibility of people under hypnosis. And that they're basically, your minds are inventing these or even covering traumatic experiences. experiences with basically hallucinations or false memories.

I even heard of one, just real quick, one thing to drive this point home where children would be abused, but the adult whoever was doing it would dress up as like Jesus or something to try and get them to think that they're imagining it or that Jesus hates them. Yeah, that God hates them. Yeah, I mean, just a horrible special circle of hell for those people. Absolutely. But that's the idea, right? Yeah, exactly. And you have this connection. So you start to have a bleed between like a hazy edge between what we know as known human abuse, where there actually are cases of ritual abuse of children, satanic things, people in religious and symbolic abuse of children. Horrible, horrible stuff. We're not going to get deep. It's too gross.

Yeah, it's too bad. Not into that kind of stuff. But there are, you see things like, well, instead of an altar, there will be a metallic, a metallic altar. There'll be a metallic table that you're laid on. There's often sexual elements to both. There's often a focus on, like, taking the blood or on reproduction or creating a hybrid species that's in the satanic ritual stuff, it's like a hybrid demon-human, philemic kind of thing. Yeah. Okay.

in the alien thing it's like the Elizabeth Clare. Yeah, let's just pause. Okay, all right. So you said if it's demon, it's Nephilim, if it's alien, but like we repeat ourselves. And that's what I'm saying. There's overlap. So the idea, let me make sure I'm getting.

The idea is that people like Elizabeth Clare, even like Billy Meyer, who had relations with Samyasa. Yeah, allegedly. The attempt was for the son's God to create hybrid beings with the daughters of men? What I'm saying, Ben, is you should read Genesis chapter 6. And that there is, no, this is, this is the point is that there's these, these encounters

basically function as replays of Genesis 6 of what you described, see you described in Enoch. And, I mean, it's just over and over. It's the same thing. You have these sexuality, focus on reproduction, the conscience. being altered, missing time. That's one of the biggest tropes from the vampire episode, too. Same thing. The progeny, the procreation.

Yes. Being destroyed or being taken from the human and given to this demon. It's like, this is what I'm saying. Corporate wants you to find all the differences between these two things. They're the same picture. They're the same picture. It's like, again, it's the succubis, it's the lilith demon,

it's the alien, it's the, I mean, This is insane. It's even like men and black. Crazy pills. Yeah. Same thing. What the heck. What?

It really is. The heck. All connected. It is. Demons be wild and. Demons be wilden. So fourth encounter, encounter of the fourth kind is what we've been talking about tonight and,

et cetera. So a close encounter of the fifth kind is one in which direct and intentional communication now takes place between the humans and the aliens. So it means it's not only now the fourth kind where there's an interface, but now there's actually communication, that the aliens and humans are trying to speak with one another, that they succeed. In the highest form of this encounter,

Heinek notes, is when the contact is first initiated by the human. So this is a human trying to contact an alien and then doing it. It's the Ouija board. It's the same thing. Wow. It's the same thing. Dude, I didn't even make that connection.

I mean, it's like people going, hey, demons, will you please? I'm not even finished a sentence. Yeah. This is why, okay, just a note, like, we're going to do this. We're going to do EVP episode or something at some point. Write that down. Yeah, for sure. Because what we're talking about here is like the danger of moderns getting obsessed with 40 and stuff.

And they're like, oh, it's so, you know, I'm going to go investigate and we're to ghost hunts. And they start going on ghost hunts. And they take their cute little DR 60 recorder or they take their cute little handheld digital recorder and they say, if there's any ghosts in here and you want a message for me, I'll channel your message to the world for you. And, oh, you know, let's then go talk to some mediums. and tell us what this EVP was telling us. Right. You know what? Hey, let this be a teaser for that episode.

Yeah. I was just reading Second Kings this morning. Yeah. The end of Second Kings. And King Josiah, my guy. King Josiah. Yeah, our guy, Josiah. He inherits a dumpster fire of a kingdom in Judah.

And he does all these reforms. One of the, and this is what Second Kings records for all of the righteous kings in Israel. All of them. They got rid of the mediums and the necromancers. and the sorcerers and sorcerers. They killed them or drove them out. Why would you do that if they were just not even doing anything real? Exactly.

So true, King. Like, this is real stuff here. In the case of Joseph. So true King. So true, King. Literal King. Yeah, I mean, the Bible, this is, modern Christians often go, this is all fake. And they take the hyper skeptical line.

Yeah. They're like, oh, it's all psychological and psychiatric phenomena. It's crazy people. It's mental illness. It's schizophrenia. It's mass hallucination. It's blah, blah, blah. blah, blah, blah, mass hallucination is not real, by the way.

It's actually called just an event. But, you know, they're like, they're like, is what it is. Insert Dumbledore quote to Harry Potter at the end of Harry Potter. And I'm like, my brother's in Christ, literally the Bible says that this stuff is real. Yeah.

Literally the Bible. Fortune telling astrology, magic, black magic, necromancy, contact with the dead, mediumship, channeling, all of it is actually real. Now, are there charlatans? Of course, they're. charlatans in the in the church that are pretending to be pastors that doesn't mean pastors aren't real doesn't

mean preaching's not real these things are real it's actually very difficult to be a charlatan about something that's completely made up it doesn't even have a grain of truth yeah reality like joseph smith had to start with the biblical narrative and he also had to start with common 19th century myths right and folklore that's what joseph smith was riffing off of yeah very common ideas in the 19th century so these encounters with aliens like we need to be equipped to understand what it is that we're talking about so that we can properly name it

and reject it. Yes. Because we do not nope, you should not be toying with don't go on ghost hunts. Don't get involved in this stuff. Don't start doing EVP sessions because you're getting involved in necromancy. Yes. Don't try to contact aliens. You're getting involved in demonology is what you're getting involved. You are not strong enough

to like I could see some gung-ho person being like, I'm going to do it and I'm going to share the gospel with them. I'm going to prove that this is real. My guy, don't. Don't. It's real. You don't need to prove it. Don't. Counterpoint, it'd be a lot cooler if you didn't. A lot cooler if you didn't. So back to the high neck scale here. Yes. We have these close encounters that can, the highest form according to scale is when it's initiated. You see this another example in the mothman flap where, um, what's his name?

The researcher journal, what's his name? Oh, John Keel. John Keel. I'm so embarrassed right now. I am not embarrassed for me. I am embarrassed for me, though. John Keel took Mary higher, I believe it was, to a known UFO hotspot during that time.

And he saw where they kept seeing UAP, these aerial phenomena, UFOs, whatever. And he got out of flashlight and he signaled in Morse code to a UFO descend descend and then what fall Mary higher apparently freaked out

because they started seeing this UFO descend in a falling leaf pattern which is really bizarre and then you know

the next day it didn't end up like landing or anything like that the next day she had cleaks conjunctivitis which is that

welders conjunctivitis yeah yeah the eye condition the eye condition that they all got from you have to be like irradiated to get it

my question is were they abducted by the aliens And did they just have missing time? So anyway, I'm sorry, that was the most, like. What's the devil's den guy's name? Oh, devil's garden, devil's den? Devils Den, abduction.

His friend's name's Toby. Yeah. Anyway, this guy, I'll remember. He, like, kind of didn't remember for a while. There was huge missing time. His friend went crazy, and then it all came back to him. Terry Lovelace. Terry Lovelace.

Oh, this story is insane. Yeah, it's crazy. This guy, he and his friend were out camping and Devil's Den, and they both worked for the Air Force. Yep. And he says that he went to sleep, and then he woke up back in his tent, and he saw this light outside.

And, like, above the light, there was this ship that was just hovering, you know, some dozens of feet above the air. And he felt, like, really panicked and weird. And then he looked at his friend, who was also looking out the window, and his friend was just, like, horrified. Yes.

Just, and then there was missing time. There was all this stuff. We've got to do that story sometime. Yeah, we do. Like we keep saying this, we're going to do this. But again, that's another great example of one with missing time with the same kind of horrific demonic elements of the abduction story, men in black. I mean, there's so much. So anyway, you see that these encounters have actually been the subject of fairly rigorous scientific analysis investigation, including by governments and Project Blueprint.

book, J. Alan Hynick, Jacques Valet, John Keel. Lots of very intelligent men and women have investigated this phenomenon. And because a lot of it is actually real. Yes. A lot of it is actually likely real. So let me leave you with one last story here, if that's all right with you guys, Ben. Of course. I said you guys, like you were multiple people.

And listeners. Me, the royal you guys. The royal you guys. The royal you guys. It's the story of Steve Greer. Steve Greer was born and raised in the American Southeast. He was a trained and licensed medical doctor who practiced from 1989 up until 1998 when he quit that field to pursue his passion.

See, Greer had claimed that multiple times in his life, he had seen UFOs up close, and he became obsessed with them. He decided to study the UFO phenomena full-time in the hopes of gaining concrete evidence and knowledge of alien civilizations and their interaction with Earth. Now, this led him eventually to a practice of meditation commonly found in Eastern mysticism. His claim, backed up with fairly compelling evidence, is that by his meditative practices, he could communicate with what he believed to be interdimensional beings far beyond humanity and cause them to appear at his request somewhere in the sky.

His takeaway from all of this will sound redundant to our dear listeners. These beings have reinforced in him the firm conviction that humanity's best and most promising efforts will revolve around, you guessed it, universal religion, collectivism, transcendentalism, etc. Where we'll be forced to evolve to a higher plane of soul and energy in order to become like these beings in the sky that he so frequently interacted with. What are these beings apart from some immaterial like interdimensional thing? Greer doesn't claim to know for sure But one thing is certain Anytime they appear They appear as some kind of massive

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