Heads In Beds Show - How To Be A GREAT Client For Your Marketing Agency

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

In this episode Conrad and Paul break down something very different: how to be a good client! Being a good client means that we can find win-win situations. Enjoy!⭐️ Links & Show NotesPaul Manzey Conrad O'ConnellConrad's Book: Mastering Vacation Rental Marketing🔗 Connect With BuildUp BookingsWebsiteFacebook PageInstagramTwitter🚀 About BuildUp BookingsBuildUp Bookings is a team of creative, problem solvers made to drive you more traffic, direct bookings and results for your accommodations brand. Reach out to us for help on search, social and email marketing for your vacation rental brand.

Welcome to the Heads & Feds show where we teach you how to get more properties, earn more revenue per property, and increase your occupancy. I'm your co-host Conrad. And I'm your co-host Paul. All right. Hey there, Paul. How's it going? Just fantastic today.

Getting ready to have another fun episode. Not a whole lot of new news today. I do have a vacation coming up, so I'm a little excited about that. Although, as I've said to a lot of people on meetings today, I don't know if I'm going to be that much warmer in Florida than I am in Minnesota right now, because we have, let's see here, 50 degrees as of almost 2 p.m. this afternoon. So I might be- It's not bad. What are you at right now? I got to be close ish. Yeah, no, it's nice out there. It was really nice this weekend. So it was supposed to rain Saturday or sorry, Sunday. So we went golfing Saturday got to get back out there, which is nice because I've been snowed in. I'm joking about that. It was cold. It was cold enough to snow

the last week, but it didn't actually snow here. That's exceedingly rare. But yeah, we got back out there. And by 1011, the sun broke through last seven holes. It was like, took off my top layer, which I hadn't done in a while and almost regretted the pants. Not quite, but I got close to it. So yeah, fantastic weather down here in the Carolinas. So we keep this going. The global warming people are back. They were down for a minute there and they almost buying into it. And now they're back. It's like, you guys are right. Global warming. I can't disagree. I can feel it. A little bit. I'm little bit. We're 10 degrees above normal for the whole winter. And I use those air quotes really heavily right there.

So yeah, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. We'll see. It's a championship Monday, although I think this will be released next week. But I think before the Super Bowl, quick, we got to get it on recording so we can debate it later. Quick Super Bowl pick.

Who do you think? Who do you lean towards? I don't think it's mr irrelevant versus my homes mr mvp yeah i don't know i can't bet against my homes and i'm gonna say i'm gonna not bet against his dad either because that's a former minnesota twin there so pat my homes give it up there there's a lot of love there so i think like a former twin is his godfather a lot of connections so we're gonna we're gonna ride my homes i like that that's six degrees of kevin bacon storytelling there.

Hey man, like he's got a loose association. That's all good. I have to lean in your direction. I think here's the thing. I think the 49ers are a much better roster and team, but I think that when it all comes down to it, there's five minutes left in the game and it's a close game. You got to go with a better quarterback.

Just objectively speaking, I lean that way. We'll see. I'm not talking points. I'm just talking straight winner. Oh yeah. Yep. Yep. Mean chiefs as well. Although supposedly it's like a two point game, one point game. It's see. I'm not talking points. I'm just talking straight winner. Oh yeah. Yep. Yep. Mean chiefs as well.

Although supposedly it's like a two point game, one point games. It's almost a pick them last pick them. It might get to be a pick them as that's coming. Last pick them was the Patriots Seahawks Superbowl. That was a pick them game 2014. I remember that one distinctly for many good reasons. It can be,

maybe it'll be a good one. That one was pretty entertaining. Obviously not if you dislike Patriots, but just for interference of pure football entertainment came down to pretty much the last play and a lot of drama. So let's hope there's some drama and some fun on this one. Maybe we'll do a Super Bowl

like commercials recap episode. I did see Verbo advertising heavily throughout the championship game. I was seeing them pretty regularly on some of the things. So Verbo was like trying to edge into our audience set. So shout out to Verbo

spending all that Expedia money. It is. I've seen them. I've a lot of those ads, a lot of anti Airbnb, a lot of place to yourself type of security type of ads, which you got families watching those stations. It's, it's a way to go. So if there's an angle, I'm interested to see what they're going to do during the Super Bowl because both of those. Oh, yeah. I wonder if they've done probably going to be present. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Airbnb loves to talk about

brand advertising. I feel like Airbnb is advertising is pretty boring, though, at this point. It's like the same stuff. I don't really know what their message is at this point, if I'm being honest. They've abandoned Live Like a Logo for a long time now, so I don't really know where they're going with things, but we'll see. We got a shorty today. Don't know how to transition that into the topic, so we'll just dive right into it. We came up with this idea because we didn't have a lot of time to record today, candidly, but we also think it's a good topic for the listener. So here's the topic. Here's the premise of the topic. How to be a good client. Obviously, if you're listening to the

podcast and Paul and I have been talking, we're saying things out there and we put out a lot of information in the world because we're trying to attract you as a client if you're listening. Spoiler alert. That's part of the reason why we do the podcast. But we thought it'd be fun to do this one because there's an art and a little bit of a science and things like that. There's behavioral traits and things like that make you a good client, a bad client. And I don't just mean purely in terms of, oh, we like working with you. We're just like working with you because there's some demanding clients that I've had that despite the fact they're demanding and there's moments where I get a little frustrated, I still really enjoy working with them. We have a great working relationship, but there's also bringing the

right information to the table and how can we be successful together? Now, here's the thing, this starting with the title of the episode, Paul, I use the term client, but you guys don't use the term client. Walk me through what you use, the term use, and why, maybe from books and end of things, how you could explain that origin story of that terminology. Yeah, so we don't have clients, we don't have customers, we have partners. And I think it is. It's really seeing it as we need to be partners in the success, knowing that there are a lot of moving pieces.

And I think really, candidly, anybody could really use that type of terminology. And I think it's a dedication to putting those customers, clients first, or really trying to ensure that they're included. They're all hands in with you as well. And I think that's a huge part of the success of anybody you're working with in that way is that buy-in, is seeing it more as a partnership as opposed to I'm going to tell you or you're going to tell me. I think there's a give and take there in all successful partnerships when you're working as a customer client. But yeah, I think we've really put an emphasis on that partnership, partner-first actions that we're

taking, partner-first communication, all of that type of thing. So I don't know if it's a more personal aspect to it or what, but I think all of that really allows us to gain a better understanding of really how we're doing the work that we're doing on your behalf for you. It's a little bit of ownership on our side of things as well, but what are your thoughts there? Yeah, I don't use that term, but I like the idea behind it a lot, I guess, is my kind of finishing thought of it. And when I take a client under my wing, I feel like those are the same thought processes I have,

even though I just feel like client is the right word. I went to dictionary.com. It's just client just says like using the professional services of another provider. So I feel like that's what we're doing. We're providing a professional service, but to your point, it is partnership. So I do agree with that sentiment a hundred percent, even if I don't use that word. Um, at this point, I feel like I'm just too stuck in my word. So I'm just going to keep using my word, but it's more about how you treat people than the word you use. And I think that ultimately you're right. And for this partnership or for a agreement to be successful, it really does require things

on both sides. Maybe that's my first thing, which is that when you sign up and you're having a marketing team help you, whether it's on the owner side, the guest side, or whatever you're doing, pricing, whatever contract service, your person you're working with. I think there's this sentiment among some people that we work with or have got the chance to talk to in the past that like you're handling everything. Whereas the way that I've always thought about it is that we're doing work with you. Like it's, I always say done for you

in terms of our deliverable approach is like, we want to, when you give me, when we give you an email to approve, the subject line's done, the design is complete, the links are added, all the content has been checked. Like it's done, but it doesn't mean that we're just going to send it without you unless you explicitly tell us that's what you want to do

because we don't know all the information that you know. So the fact that you should be carving out still 30 minutes in your day for email marketing, even though build up bookings is doing your email marketing, because ultimately you're going to have to take a look at it, provide feedback, maybe double check the links just to make sure we're human. We're trying not to make that mistake, but we're fallible. We don't always do things perfectly. And I think that whenever we have a client that's bad or isn't as successful as they could be, I think it is that tend to disappear moment, right? When we're sending deliverables, when we're asking for things,

when we need a particular asset or something like that, it doesn't always come in the reasonable timeframe. And then we're, our team is ready to go and we're not getting the right info on their side. So I think that communication of, and blocking time and realizing that I'm working with them, but they're doing things for me, but I still need to work with them. That's my mindset that I wish more clients would have on my side. I would agree with that. And I think it's maybe it's that expectation is that I think in some cases, the expectations that you are literally going to do it all for me and where that runs aground a little bit is that we can be really good at vacation rental marketing and maybe marketing

specific areas. But really, it's always about that. You are the local expert. We can put our expertise over top of that and not even looking at that as a national brand type thing or anything like that. It's that we know what works in this vertical. We know what works in this industry. You know what is especially important to travelers in your destination. If you don't, that's something that we all have to come together and figure out what's happening there. But it really is adding our strategies and our ideas to your expertise in order to drive really powerful campaigns.

And I think that's where, when I've seen success, both on the owner and the guest side, it is. It's that, yeah, there should be a willingness to look over things, proof those emails a little bit. Yeah, we're going to proof it. And no, and I think that's always the thing is that whenever someone catches an error, a small little detail, it's, Oh, aren't you proofing this? Of course we're proofing this, but this is human. This is the human nature of building out marketing materials is that there are going to be some little things. Every once in a while, we're going to miss a period.

We're going to miss a word. We're human. We're going to try to catch it. We don't want that going over to you. But you, just like anything else, you are our second set of eyes, our third set of eyes, hopefully at that point, maybe a fourth or a fifth set of eyes. But just like anything else, the idea that there's no skin in the game there. I hope everybody feels like they should have some skin in the game.

This isn't just on us. We've all had the opportunity to review and to make sure that what's going out is representative. Because the last thing you want to do, have that email go out, have that direct mail piece goes out that had something wrong. And we can all point to ourselves because everybody who looked at it behind the scenes there at one point before it went out. Yeah. Yeah. No, I can't agree more. So I think being able to provide that feedback, realizing that it's a time to SMO sides and committing to that going in is not a, Oh, I've signed Venturi to do my owner marketing. I don't need to worry about this

anymore. That's not true. That's not true. I've signed build to do my email marketing, my SEO, et cetera. I don't need to ever look at anything anymore. That's not true if you want to be the most successful. Now, some clients have given us kind of carte blanche, and I feel like we've had success with some of those clients, but I don't really think it's necessarily optimal. I think that feedback loop is important. So I like that. But I'm going to pull out one word you said in success. That's my next one that I had here on my list.

Success is somewhat fungible of a definition. What does success mean? When we set rocks for ourselves and our team, we use the smart framework. So it's specific, measurable, realistic, time bound, and I'm missing one thing in there, but it's building out actionable, maybe. Yeah, actionable. It is actionable.

Yeah, it might be. So the point is that when you describe a goal to someone, it should be by the end of Q1 2024, we will have reached 25% direct bookings by spending $15,000 on ads from January, February, March of 2024. So you're defining all the parameters in the goal when you're describing it to someone so that there's no, the goal of a smart goal in my mind, we consider and figure out what the words are. But ultimately what it means is that you can give that to someone who's outside of our business and not working with buildup or not working with Conrad's cool cabin rental company.

Show them the numbers, show them the goal and ask them if we hit the goal. See, the problem with a lot of clients is they'll come to us. They'll say something to the effect of, I want more direct bookings. Okay. We could just, if you give me an unlimited eye budget, I can pretty much guarantee you I'll get you more direct bookings, right? The question then may become at what profitability level are you okay accepting a direct booking? What assets do you have access to? What are more? Okay, you did 25 direct bookings last January. If I give you 26, are you cool? Are you happy? Or do you expect

you want to keep it the same? Or do you expect to do 50 direct bookings or 35? What are your, there's a lot of nuance there and what's important. So I think that the next thing that I see usually once we get a little bit deeper in like the proposal process is that we can show you our pricing, we can show you what we do, we can give you different examples. Of course, our case studies are always going to be the biggest wins we've had. But it's like, what are your goals? Do they line up with your expectations?

And I think that on the owner side, same thing, right? Like an owner, a growing vacation company wants every owner there is that meets certain criteria. But sometimes they don't define what those criteria is, nor do they define very well, OK, does that mean if I just get you one more home than last year are you happy or do you expect 50 more or 20 more or 10 more or whatever the case may be so i imagine we have the same problem it's just different parameters to the problems but yeah anything to add on that i think you've hit it down on the head i think it's important to have those goals up front and making sure that

it's clear right away and if the goal isn accurate, it's incumbent upon us or not realistic. It's incumbent upon us to make sure that we are resetting that expectation so that three months down the road, six months down the road, we have something to measure to. We have something that, hey, now we were, again, three homes, six homes, 12 homes, something like that. Okay, 12 homes in a quarter. That's pretty aggressive.

But how can we get there? And what steps can we take to make sure that we are achieving those goals? I think you can still have, I think it's for our side, it's on the EOS side, because that's what we're using. It's rocks versus like a completion of a task, some type of thing where your rock is going to be this big overarching goal that you're trying to hit, but it's the steps that you take. Here, we're going to launch five direct mail campaigns.

We're going to do a digital campaign. We're going to do a homeowner referral campaign. We're going to do all these steps. These are the things that are tangibly going to lead up to that goal. And I think as long as you're setting those key results along the way, you're able to point and achieve that goal more effectively or measure that goal more effectively as well. Yeah. I think that's the piece that really is frustrating at times for us. And this is my example of bad client situation. And this has happened to us over the years where we get to

month three, month four check-in and we see great numbers like from our perspective like we're happy hey i just had a meeting earlier today traffic was up 25 year over year and this was already a site that was doing well it wasn't like oh i went from five visitors to seven this was it was already doing 30 000 visitors a month and we brought it up even more since we've been working with them so very happy but to be fair i'll be honest here too the bookings weren't up that much so i'm like we got a lot of additional eyeballs but those eyeballs haven't really converted that much more into bookings. We're up some modest percent, 5, 10%, something like that. And I said, let's also look internally here. What we're doing is obviously giving us more traffic, but it's not converting into more bookings. And then we do a little bit more digging. We realized one or two of our best performing properties are gone since last year. I go back and look at some of those properties were in fact, the most popular ones that they got bookings on last year, they had pretty nice e commerce tracking. So again, this is all information, right? We got to have the right goal set up. And we have to be willing to adapt. We can't just say, this is also something I dislike when it comes to setting these goals,

just pulling something out of your tail, so to speak, and just going, yeah, we're at we're at 25% direct bookings, we really want to be at 75. That would be nice. Okay, here you go. 75% direct bookings by the end of the year is our goal. But it's smart, like in terms of of like specific but it's not realistic right back to the the our piece of smart realistic we have to figure out a path where okay what activities are we doing today that are matt that brought us to 20 direct bookings and if we double them like it's reasonable to assume that we maybe will get a little bit more but it may not be linear it may just be that because we spent double the time doesn't guarantee we're going to get double the outcome i think those these few things i got one more here for us because we agreed that we wouldn't go over so i guarantee we're going to get double the outcome. I think those these few things, I got one more here for us, because we agreed that we won't go over. So I know we're on

a tighter time. It's like what you said, like this idea of partnership, it's collaboration. And I think it's collaboration, where we get some of the facts out of the way first. And then we talk a little bit more nuanced about what the actual goals are, what's going on in the business and stuff like that. So I really love a monthly call when the clients book monthly calls, they attend the monthly calls. And the first like maybe third, somewhere in that range is a little bit more of the Alright, let's just get the numbers out. Let's just all agree on what happened last month. Okay, everyone's on the same page here, you guys know what's going on. Great. Now we've got two thirds of this call left, what are we going to do about it? If they're great numbers, we should just probably be doing more of what we're doing. And some of these calls

I go in, I'm like, let's spend more money, the ads are working, let's spend more. What who do we have to ask? What approval do we have to get to spend $3,000 this month instead of 2000? Because 2000 was really good. Or on the other side, it could be, hey, things aren't going well, what can we do about it? Our commerce rate isn't great, the call this morning, what can we do about it? We can adjust this, we can adjust this, and so on and so forth. So going back to your partnership comment, I think that's the piece that I want to end on my side here, which is that setting realistic goals, being great with communication, and collaborating with that agency team is going to lead you to the best outcome. And all the client relationships we

have that don't go as well as we would like or as the client was like, I feel they're lacking pretty severely in one of those three areas, for sure. But it is that collaboration on those calls. I think that's, it's critical. I think if you're spending an hour on with your agency and they're just talking about the numbers with you

for an hour and not getting into anything strategic, just something to read the report there. Just yeah, exactly. Then take the data studio, the slideshow, whatever it is, and just read it because here's the that's the thing. And it does have to be a team that we say we say partnership, collaboration of some kind. It's not it's not just one side talking to the other.

It's both sides talking and communicating in a way that pushes the goals of the partner, the customer, the client forward. That's ultimately what we're looking to do, what we want to do. And having that collaboration is going to make it a whole lot easier on our end. Could agree more. Some final thoughts on my side before we wrap this one. I know we had a shorty today, but it was fun to get some of these thoughts out there. You got to be nice to my team.

People that are not nice to my team, it's an immediate like they're on like we skip one strike we go straight into two strikes when someone's rude to someone that's legit you want to be a good client don't ever be rude to someone that's on my team because that's going to be the immediate like you're already like i said you're already two strikes in we all have bad days so i'll give you one for free i get it we're people we're humans i've made mistakes like that before too but the moment you do it again you're done and. And I have no qualm firing clients. In fact, my team usually celebrates when I fire a client because they've usually been treated poorly before. And I only heard about one or two. So when I hear about it, usually it's because one or two little things were said before

and it went the wrong direction. And a final thought, don't pay late. Nothing excites me more than the client whose payment card goes down and they message me proactively and go, hey, my payment card went down. Let me go ahead and fix it. Clients don't auto pay, things like that. Let's be honest, it's your agency. They're probably struggling with cashflow. So when you delay their payment and you make the founder of the agency or someone inside the accounting department of a larger company chase your payments, it bothers them. Pay people and treat the people right. If they're not delivering for you, you have every right to share your feedback with them, but don't attack people on the team. That always is a thing for me. Pay your invoice on time.

We have reasonable payment terms. I think most people in our space do. Pay people on time. And I'm not going to fight for you because I know you're going to take care of me when it comes to all the work that we do for you. So those are some few final thoughts along with everything else.

But yeah, this was a fun one, Paul Shorty. So if you like this kind of episode, more of like behind the scenes of agents beside what we're doing, send us a message. We'd be happy to do more of these types of episodes. But yeah, thanks for listening. Championship podcast here recorded.

We will come back at you next week with a little bit more of a marketing topic and we appreciate you and your time. So thanks for listening to the heads of Metro. Thanks so much.