Heads In Beds Show - How To Run A GEO/LLM Search Audit On Your Vacation Rental Website

Episode Date: March 11, 2026

In this episode Conrad and Paul take a crack at defining what a LLM / GEO / AEO whatever ya wanna call it audit should look like. Want a copy of the audit? Email [e-mail] with subject line "LLM Audit doc" and you'll get it! Enjoy!⭐️ Links & Show NotesPaul Manzey Conrad O'ConnellConrad's Book: Mastering Vacation Rental MarketingConrad's Course: Mastering Vacation Rental Marketing 101🔗 Connect With BuildUp BookingsWebsiteBook A Call With Us🚀 About BuildUp BookingsBuildUp Bookings is a team of creative, problem solvers made to drive you more traffic, direct bookings and results for your accommodations brand. Reach out to us for help on search, social and email marketing for your vacation rental brand.

Welcome to the Heads of Med Show presented by Build Up Bookings. We teach you how to get more vacational properties, earn more revenue per property, master marketing, and increase your occupancy. Take your vacation rental marketing game to the next level by listening in. I'm your co-host Conrad. And I'm your co-host, Paul. I feel like, you know what, the problem is Paul? There's never like a little sound when we start to have the record. So it doesn't kind of ding.

Yeah, yeah. You know, like when you're on an airplane, there's like that dinging noise when they do the announcement where it's like ding. And then you know the announcement's about to occur. They'll go to something like that. What's up? What's going on? I think you got some good news just a couple hours ago. I think you could be seeing the season debut of one of your best players for the Boston Celtics if I am not confused.

So it could happen Friday. Happy times for you. Yeah, you know, it's, first of all, there's been suffrage lately, you know, in the Boston sports world. We had to watch our team go to the Super Bowl and lose it, which again, there's lots of nuances about that, right? People will say, oh, you have such a young team and you should be so excited and stuff like that and then people will throw stats at you endlessly about like, well, actually, if you make

it early, there's a good chance you're not going to make it back. So it's bittersweet. You know, I think, you know, all other things being equal, you take the, you take the chance of your team doing well. But think about it, it's been years since the Celtics have been in the finals. Now they've really good team and they're getting back one of their best players. So something good to get happened out of it, something bad can happen out of it. I don't think they're better than the teams of the West Coast, to be honest with you. I guess more like the middle of the country, you know, vis-a-vis Oklahoma City. But, you know, anything can happen. In the playoffs, there certainly has been, I don't say David Slaying Goliath.

you know, necessarily, but there has been underdogs that have taken down, you know, the better performing teams in the past see Toronto, Kauai as a, you know, recent example, maybe, kind of recent. But anyways, so we'll see. Yeah, time, time will tell. What's, um, what's going on in your sports world? You know, people love to hear a little sports talk at the beginning. Are you excited about anything right now, or is it just like kind of mostly somber days up there in your neck of the woods? Twins are not an organization we talk about with much happiness up here. So, what's golf? Well, we're watching a lot of golf. We're hoping that as things, green up as the snow goes away, golf season gets closer and closer.

So that's, it's cool about that. And March Madness is coming up. So that's, we got that coming up. You get pumped about that. What's cool about watching golf is you can just like pick a player that you like. And then if another player starts doing better, you just root for him. You don't have to have like a team, right? Or like a person that you're rude for.

I mean, I guess Liv is trying that. But anyways, we don't need to do that. So, yeah, it's kind of just more fun. Like you can just enjoy watching it. You don't have to like hope for a specific outcome. We need more villains than golf. You know, maybe P. Reed coming back will help that. Some more things.

someone to root against, as it were, but I digress. Some good stuff there. All right, so a fun one here. Speaking of things to root for and root against, a lot of people have rooted for this idea of Google is dead and everything has gone to LLM, see previous, I don't know, 20 or 30 episodes we've done on that, of that not really being the case. But this is maybe a touch overdue, but I would argue we tried to do this in a way

that, you know, is actually grounded in some level of facts or some level of strategy and not what some people do with these audits are talking about, quote, GoGeo, which is, frankly, just make stuff up. They just say things that are, you know, sound good or look good in a checklist, but are not actually true. Good example of that in this world, by the way, just to give people to listen to a little bit of context here, is you might have read on LinkedIn or in different places online. Oh, you need to use an LLMs.t.t.coms.comfail on your website.

It's similar to robots. TX.D. It tells the crawlers how to behave on your website when you get there. The trouble is there's no evidence that these platforms use that. Open AI, Google's Gemini crawlers or other AI crawlers or Anthropic, you know, aka code or Claude, or Claude, are actually, technically using that according their documentation. Now could that change in the future? We're recording this in March of 26. Absolutely. So I'm not saying that that's going to be the case forever. But people are selling this idea of a best practice, quote unquote, GEO thing to do, is adding

LMs.t. And again, there's no evidence that you need to do that. So is there any harm in doing that? I would also say no, there's probably no harm in doing that. So if you want to, go ahead. But if that's part of your checklist, I sort of do question maybe a little bit of what it is, and if you don't surround it with the right context. But if you say, yeah, everyone's using this. and then you can't prove that. Then that's why I said there's a little bit of a little bit of snake oil here in like this so-called geo-world. So this is our first attempt, the build-up attempt. And I showed this to you for the first time earlier.

So you can agree or disagree with what we talked about today of building a little bit of what an LLM or GEO-SEO-O-Oaddit looks like from a little bit from a little bit. There's a lot of other things that we can explore on the back end as far as like what the actual content says. But we'll focus on that for the time being. And this is our first attempt at it. So consider us converted, you know, maybe a little bit. What do you think, Paul? Yeah, I mean, there's going to be a continuing trend here, and I hope people pick it up by the end. But if it's not, I'll crystallize it.

Don't worry. But, yeah, I mean, you go just starting with that LLM's text. Sure. I will say that I remember, oh, probably a year ago now, when we were doing some backgrounding on the ESPN site. So to see what they were using for like a robot. tx t file and sure enough they did have an L-l-l-l-oh they had something very similar I'm like oh we have to so I was one of those people right away was saying oh yeah let's do it it's it's going to move it 12 months later I can tell you it did not have any substantive

different so if you're starting to do it now I got some news it's probably not the the way to go um we put it on the audit sure put a checklist that's that's fun it's another indication but yes as of today I can tell you with about 12 12 months um of research in place, she doesn't do much to move the needle there. So I think it's like maybe it's a quick note here. Sorry, I'm like choosing your partners, not carefully, but like choosing your partners based on some level of competency or, you know, I think there's always people that will, this will always exist in marketing from now until the day that I die that will claim that they're

experts in XYZ channel and they'll kind of fake it and they're not, they don't always fake it until they make it. Sometimes they never make it as a quick version of story. But I've dealt with so many people over the years who just frankly make stuff up that have no proof and evidence of it, that this new LLMGEO thing has brought on an entirely new wave of that. I mean, that's always been happening since I started my career in marketing kind of back in 2013, that era.

It's like been going on this whole time. But this particular area is ripe for it because it's new and it's changing so much that it feels good to say, well, this is a new form of marketing. The old form of marketing is dead or gone and we don't use it anymore. And then this person's coming in as an expert because no one can have five years of experience in so-called LLM optimization when the field itself is so new. So they could just kind of say things. because there's no, again, there's no sort of credentialing necessary for this.

And as a result, you know, it leads to that kind of stuff. So anyways, be careful you listen to, you know, to some degree, or at least like fact check them a little bit. Try to validate with your own assumptions. And again, this is our take on it. We may change your mind. You know, we may do this podcast six months from now and go, hey, there's five things in here that we're wrong that we need to change.

I think that's a healthy part of this side of marketing is being willing to change your mind and be flexible. But this is going to be a first crack out. I mean, it is. I think from the absolute top level perspective, two main goals, citations and brand mentions. You got it. I mean, that is, if you're not, if those aren't the two things you're focused on,

I'm not sure that you're focused on the right thing. I mean, it is. You've got some different perspectives or those aren't the right KPIs. I think if you're really looking at what you can manipulate, what you can change, what these, what the action items that you're taking from an SEO, LLM audit, you know, template are, those are the things you're going for. Those are, and those are what you should be trying to measure.

Now, it's tricky to measure, and I think that there's, as ran so eloquently laid out, you're really tracking those is a whole other item. But having an understanding of where it's happening and what those citations are and really getting the stuff that we have become so accustomed to on the SEO side, the search queries, whether it's search terms, whether that's on Google Ads or Google search console, those are the things that right now feel a little distant or how do you feel about that as far as how they're trackable, how they're measurable, things like that. Yeah, I mean, to cut to the quick answer there would be Gumshue is a platform that lets

you test LLM responses. So long story short, if you then have an idea of what you think, think the user will actually use to prompt to find your business. And then you can generate, let's say, 5, 10, 15 different prompts or examples. of how people might ask those questions in the LLM tools, and then you run a bunch of those into something like Gumshu, like 10 versions of each one, then you start to get a little bit of a sense of like,

okay, if people do this, let's give an example, this may be helpful for the listener. Who is the best property manager for me to work with in Destin, Florida? I want to maximize the amount of revenue I'm getting from my vacation home in Destin, Florida. And then it comes back a list of companies. So if you do that 10 times across a few different LM providers, you know, so you do it in chat, TBT, you do it in Gemini,

you do it in Claude, et cetera. you'll start to build a bit of a profile of like, again, it's not going to be consistent every time. That's the see previous episodes that we've done on that. But you're going to get some sense of like, we did this 100 times and our brand showed up 85 times. Great. Or we do that and our brand showed up two times.

Probably really bad. We want to fix that. So we feel like it's a reasonable thing to try to improve that. So yeah, if you're working with someone that's kind of selling you this and this will be something we're adding to our services basically, it's like a new thing that we're going to be kind of onboarding and testing over the next few months, we have to track it.

We have to go into an LM prompt tracking style tool, get a bunch of data back and test it. Again, I'll say this a few times throughout maybe the next 30 minutes or so, which is like, I hesitate for a lot of people to spend too much time on this and too much money on this because, again, I still think that like one to three percent of your traffic has come from this. But if this is your goal to optimize for it, this is what at least we feel like is going to work well and get you the results. You probably want to optimize for Google first to be very clear. Like, you probably want to get all your boxes check there. Make sure at least you're like B plus A minus shape over there with everything from like a classical on-page SEO perspective.

because, again, there's a ton of overlap with sites that do well in quote-unquote, classic SEO results and sites that do well on the LLM side. But, again, these are things that we think are novel or different that make a difference. So I'll say that as like a disclaimer. I feel like I've done like three disclaimers. You don't want someone going back and say, I listened to your episode and it didn't help. That is the also the reality. How did you track it, basically? Exactly.

Well, I mean, so there's some stuff in here in our notes, you know, that Paul was not meant for, you know, people listening. It's more just like our onboarding process. So we'll skip over that. So the way that I think about it is like, step one is kind of what I just said there. It's, okay, we need to actually go and get a sense of where we're mentioned today if we are being mentioned. So to do that well in my mind, you need to like understand what prompts people are using or build some sample prompts of what you think people are using. Now in the future, perhaps we'll have like a Google search console style tool from something like an open AI or again from a Gemini, you know, prompting where we actually see the prompts or at least see bits of the prompts that people are using to find us. Right now you just kind of make it up.

Like there's no like defined system for like this is what we think prompts have more quote unquote volume or less volume. So maybe you do a prompt like this. Again, I'm planning a family vacation with my husband and my, you know, two children. I'm looking to book a place that would allow me to, you know, I live in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm looking for a good mountain escape destination, show me the best property managers within three hours that would have a cabin that would be good for my family. Just an example. Again, you would come up with literally 100 examples. But once you understand what you're like target, you know, guess is.

is and you can kind of come up with some of those prompts, that's at least a starting point to be like, okay, let's see how often we're mentioned when we do that. So you come up with maybe 10 or 20 of those, you go pop those in the gum shoe, which is like a prompt tracking tool. You get a bunch of times so it gets you better sample size. You see what percent of time you're mentioned. That's kind of like in my mind. That feels like step one or step two maybe in the process is like starting with some measurement. One thing that was simplistic in that is you may be having a decent understanding of who your ideal guest is. So you might, if there is a step zero, it might be like who might actually, what terms, what prompts are actually want to show up for in the same way that we did,

classical keyword research on the SEO side, you might want to do guest research and be like, these are the few different types of people that are coming in. If you use Gumshoe, by the way, it'll kind of do that for you a little bit. Like you'll explain if you, you'll like give it your website. You can actually tell it a few things of like family friendly travel, romantic travel, large group travel, family reunions. You could come up with few concepts and then they'll generate prompts for you, which is a nice little feature. But you also do that yourself as well. So that's kind of as I see step zero, step one, figure out what you kind of want to be known for, and then go run that and see where your baseline is.

I think that's the key right now is that people expect to have traffic come from the LMs, but there's not really the thought process that goes into, well, how would people, how would people, what kind of searches would people be doing, what kind of prompts of people could do it? And I think when we take it to that next level, it's it unearths that, oh, maybe we don't have such a good understanding of that target persona, that target audience that we're really going after because we don't know which questions they're really asking, so we can't provide those answers. It is.

I think some of it's just like the structural points of the website that being able to see right now, I think that it is running it through, I like the three options that you're using, that GEMShoe and AHAFs and Cloud GEO analysis. I mean, those are things that I think are really important, not to test against one. You really have to do this. over a lot of different areas and test against these things because again it is so fluid and the

last thing you want to do is base it on a one single crawl one single call one single audit and just think that that is what's going to happen and and that's again that's my fear is that some of these audits are are very light and this one is is very comprehensive from that standpoint of because it is. There's certainly some give, or there was some give within the 10 blue links on the old traditional Google SERP, but not like,

you know, you weren't going to go to a cert page and see the first result turn into like the 10th result, your next result. You know, you might want one to two, two to three, something like that within a given session or something. There is way more fluidity

and way more unpredictability to a point where I think that, that any of these audits that are taking place have to come on a specific cadence or, you know, somewhat of a regular cadence down the road, whether that's monthly, whether that's quarterly, and really understanding the fluctuations that are taking place, even as new data as being, I think that's the other thing is that new data, new, new, new, new, all these new data points. I think, I remember some of the initial numbers when they were loading in chat GPT and Gemini, it's just like billions and multibillions.

of data points that are being injected into this system. That happens on a much more regular, much more frequent basis now. So again, as more data is at, there's different answers and different abilities, define answers, and do all of these things. Yeah. Well, and actually, one thing that I don't have in our list here

or in our outline even is this idea of like, when you're making these changes, how quick does the LLM actually respond to those changes? Right, because the way these models work, by the ways, they're trained and then the training kind of stops, or I know to some degree it's ongoing. But it almost reminds me a little bit. I had this conversation with some of the other day, who's, I would argue, smarter than me about this kind of stuff. I was comparing into how Google updates used to work back in the day. Or if you were penalized back in the day in Google,

you could actually go on your website, go in your link profile, make all the fixes of the quote-unquote algorithm update that harmed you. And then you were basically, you just had to wait for Google to rerun the algorithm in order to get put back up on the top of Google. So, like, there was people that went in there and made SEO mistakes, technical SEO mistakes, conglacial mistakes, link mistakes, you know, content mistakes, whatever the case may be, Google punishes them basically, penalizes them to some degree or algorithmically, you know, filters them out of the search results. That sucks. They go, okay, I know I wasn't doing things perfectly from an SEO perspective. They go and fix those things. And then they would just sit there

and their site could sit there for six months, eight months a year, 12 months, you know, whatever the case may be until the updates were made. And it's interesting when you think about that because it's like, if the LM works kind of similarly where this training is happening to some degree an ongoing basis, but like who knows if it's training on ongoing basis, you know, the corpus of documents or the corpus of information about vacation rentals, right? Like, we're probably small in the grand scheme of the billions of parameters that these LMs are using when you think about it. Like we are one tiny little piece of stardust, you know, amongst the many things. So, yeah, it'd be interesting to think, like, you could be doing all the right things, maybe, making all these improvements we're going to talk about.

But I wonder if you tested a week later, two weeks later, three weeks later, there may not be actually much change. You may be like, oh, well, the algorithm or the training model has to almost like rerun or go again. And then, you know, build from there. So anyways, that's a sidebar. But, you know, I worry about that a little bit, you know, from, you know, making these changes that actually going to move the needle. So, but I digress. But yeah, I think some of the initial processes around, like, our checks here is going to be,

you know, like you said, let's get some sense of how often we're mentioned. That's kind of step one. Step two would be let's make sure we're not preventing the actual crawlers from these new platforms that were finding us. So just like we would have checked back in the day, Google's ability to access the website and index the content, I say back in the day, like we do that still today. But anyways, we should do the same thing for all these major LLN platforms. It would be silly to say, I want Chat TBT to rank me really well and then block the open AI crawler from visiting your website.

That would be dumb. That would be like, I want the customer to come in the door and then you lock the front door. So don't do that. That seems like kind of, again, maybe a step two type thing, but very early in the process. And then understand, you know, that those sites are accessible, that your site's accessible for these things, that they can visit it. And that they're not having any issues, maybe, you know, certainly a bot can visit the website and then run into authentication issues. We're dealing with that with one client right now. So it can access it.

but then the server slows it down too much where the bot stops crawling. It's like, nope, I don't want to crawl anymore because you're making me go too slow. So you're going to be aware of that. But that's kind of more of the technical mumbo-jum behind the scenes. But don't skip that stuff because if you went off this process and tried to improve your website a lot, again, the analogy I do is we have a restaurant. We want customers. We have beautiful, you know, food cooked in the back kitchen,

and then we lock the front door and no one can come in. That's the equivalent of blocking, you know, something like OpenAI or ChatTPD from crawling your website. Yeah. Yeah, I think, I mean, talking about kind of the next steps here. And the weird part about all this is that for AI, we have to humanize our websites. So I mean, talking about like the focus on like the author bios, like making sure there is a specific, not the blank, vacations, friendful content team, whatever that is, your marketing team doesn't work anymore.

Like it's just not going to be as effective. It's you need to have an individual having someone's face there. You know, it doesn't, we can get into the, oh, does it need to be? the person's face, I don't, but I'm not going to play that game. But you do. You need to have a bio. You need to have information of why this person is an expert because expertise, authority, and trustworthiness are still important on the LLM side of things. And linking to those individual blog posts. I mean, I think that's incredibly important. The About Us page, how long have you talked about maybe the About Us contact us page should actually have something about you to talk about

to talk about the individuals that are helping these people humanize these pages. This is something that it's pulling hair outworthy just because it just seems too straightforward. And these are the things that I remember were especially difficult to get from people, getting a team photo, getting people to write bios about themselves. It's tough. It's not something you like to do because you are. It's a professional thing. But guess what?

We're in the hospitality space. Have fun with it. do like if you make this more fun obviously you want to make sure that you're putting on the about us page you're putting some important trust signals on you're putting some important facts and information about your business like it is like talk about it if there's a history of your business put it on the about us page because that will that will only lend to the credibility of the entire site and again that's that's the one thing that the AI somehow understands and that's a little scary too there is that how is it connecting the dots and putting that humanity on these items,

but I digress. I was going to say, we might be giving it too much credit. I'm thinking back to I followed this guy for a long time. He's a writer. And he had like a cooperating agency before. I don't know if he still does. But I follow this guy, Joel, I think his last time was pronounced Kletke or Ketki, if I'm saying that correctly.

But he tried to rank for, I think it's like the world's most handsome man for a while or something like that. And he was skilled in SEO and he knew enough about it where he kind of ranked himself in Google Images for that. I think it was like his author bio when he went did speaking gigs, he'd be like, yeah, when you linked to my website, make sure you mentioned like, I'm the world's most handsome man. And, you know, I'm not saying anything negative about Joel, but like for my end, you know, go look at his profile picture on, on, you know, whatever at Google. And like, he's an average looking guy. He's a good looking guy. Right. But he's not, he's not George Clooney,

as it were, right? Like, you know, if you were to have 100 women rate him, they probably wouldn't rate him the most handsome guy in the world. Certainly not more than these famous actors and stuff like that. But he did, he understood the algorithms. He understood how things work. He had some fun with it and he got self-ranking Google Imges for the world's most handsome man or something like that based on his knowledge of it. So to go back to your point of the author bio, the funny part about it, it's very hard to fact check these sorts of things. So if I go in the author bio, I read an author bio for myself or for, and I say, I'm the world's foremost expert in vocational marketing. I mean, there's enough out there to kind of support that theory to some

degree, right? It's not like I'm saying I'm the world's most foremost export on being a professional pickleball player. I've never played pickleball in my life, right? So that would be just a little bit facetious. But it's also one of those things where it's like, once you put in the Al-Bautis page, the LM might pick up on that and be like, well, yeah, there's some articles over here about Conrad. There's some content over here. He's got this podcast over here. He's got the, you know, like you can kind of see where you can connect the dots. So my point is you can kind of, I don't say make things up. I don't mean that, but like, you could sort of tell your own story in a way that's favorable to you. You could say, we've

work with the best investors and who buy vacational properties in San Diego or in Galveston, Texas or whatever the case may be. And there's really not anything to say that you can't say that. You know, as long as you're being honest, you should be honest, of course. But there's also not like a, there's no official fact checker, right? It's the internet. you can kind of publish, you know, whatever you might want to do there. So yeah, food for thought there. I think the, well, there are two things you mentioned there. Just want to make sure we're on the same page. So author, an About Us page in my mind is more like a little bit of company-wide, you know, business, there's what we're accomplishing. Then we have like little subsections for people.

The author bio, though, I think that's where it lives in the blog content or other informational content. And that, I think, is underrated. Most of our clients don't have that very well set up at all if they even have it. Best, best case scenario I usually sees at least a buy line on the article content. So it'd be like Paul Manzi wrote this article in this day, like some of our clients have that. But that's something I'm really interested to see how that'll flesh itself out, because if we are, in fact, local and we talk about the local area, why wouldn't we want to put your name on there? And then give Google and LLMs and et cetera, other information about the fact that I've lived here for 10 years. I have, I live here with my kids. I know this. I know this. I know this. So that's kind of

what we're leaning into is the fact that, and Neely talks about this. Neely-Con talks about this a lot of LinkedIn. Being found is different than being chosen or being found is different than people actually trusting the source. So I think that's kind of an example. of what we're doing, you know, with the blog content is like, we write this great content that's very SEO optimized, if you will. And we try to make it the best quality we can. We work hard at that and our team does as well. But adding that extra little step of this was written or reviewed by John Doe and John Doe is an expert in XYZ location because of all these reasons, we think that'll push things up a little bit further. So time will tell. But that's kind of a working

theory right now of how these things matter. And that's consistent with a little bit of SEO best practices, I would argue. But we have content ranking that has never, doesn't even have an author or byline audit at all. So we know it's not required to rank well in Google, but we think this might be something that would positively influence the LLMs in a world where there's, let's be honest, right, 100 articles about things to do in San Diego or things to do in Descent Florida or things to do in Myrtle Beach or whatever the case may be. So that's kind of a theory that we're working on. You know, as we go through, you know, Paul, maybe something that you have a little bit more

experience around that we can kind of copy over to the LLM world is this idea of building collection pages, building landing pages. And we have this idea of, you know, when people go on Google, they're often searching. Again, are they going to do the same thing on the LLM style searches? I suspect so, and it's going to be, I'm looking for a cabin that's family-friendly or I'm looking for a cabin that's pet-friendly or whatever. So the new version of that, we have some ideas on it. But basically just identifying those pages, building them out, your thoughts on this,

because this is something you've done, obviously, many times before, you know, in the classic SEO sense. Yeah, I think it can be incredibly effective for top-level keywords. And I think the best websites are going to support that down the road, and making sure that, yes, you can, you can, you can, you can, get high-level traffic to a website. But what I think is going to be interesting in understanding how the LLMs are kind of taking over that process is how, you know, how does it need to be structured? How does all this information need to be structured? We talked about, you know,

Maca is an example, how they really are focusing on amenities specific, destination-specific, travel-type specific types of keywords. And I think that that's a good way of, of, of looking at it. But I think what we kind of see be the biggest difficulty is it is so market specific. And a lot of these people are going to do different searches based on the market they are in and the market they are traveling too. And I think that complicating factor of, it is, I'm really interested to see how booking.com and Expedia really start to push a better, more seamless experience for those bookings because just getting someone to that top level page really leaves someone higher up in the inspiration.

You know, we talked about the seven, you know, seven phases of the booking. It keeps you pretty high up. And I think that obviously the lower you can get into the booking funnel getting very amenity specific. I think that's helpful, family-friendly, romantic. cabins, all these things. These are great types of content pieces to have and certainly beneficial to the end user. But I still, it's ultimately how many people are doing searches like that? And is it so niche that we're already targeting such a small percentage of the traffic

right now, three to five percent, let's say? Now we're talking about another one percent of that three, we're really trying to customize content to a very small level. Now, AI helps generate that content as well. So how are we, you know, we're going to catch 22 here. We need to use AI to generate the content at scale to get down to these property group specific landing pages because it is. Granted, when you can capture people at that right part of the funnel, the conversion rights to go up. And that's, that's the reality is that if you can get some of those subpages to rank or to show out more frequently in those AI prompts and AI responses. I think that that's, it is.

You, if we're not as worried about, you know, site map bloat that we do, we have to worry about with SEO. Maybe this is. Maybe that's the way that we can kind of combat and, and create those individual landing page. So it is, if we're sending, you know, from Google ads, high intent traffic to the right pages,

as opposed to high intent traffic to just pages that, chat GPT or Gemini thinks are tangentially close. Yeah, absolutely. I think that we're going to provide a better experience there. And analytics would tell you the same thing. Yeah, I mean, you bring up good points. I agree. If I could steal man against our own argument a little bit, maybe,

and you and I kind of are agreement on this. So if I could provide a little bit of context on the other side, it would be you guys keep citing traffic. But chatypt is mostly driving awareness and influence, not so much traffic. So the fact that very few people actually click on the link cited in their response is not enough reason for you guys to say that these things aren't influencing people more than you cite. So that would be my steelman against my own argument of,

yes, these are low traffic drivers right now, but it's like, it's almost like how we talk about social sometimes where it's like, well, the goal wasn't really traffic, right? The goal was a little bit more so awareness, people seeing a video of the property and then they search the company name later, et cetera, et cetera. And we know this because when we do audits of these like very social first vacation rental brands, they get a ton of branded search traffic on Google, even though they're like, oh, we're not even doing anything on Google. We're not like running SEO campaigns or PPC campaigns on Google, yet half their conversions come from Google, and it's all from social demand that bleeds over into search because people just use search

to find something. So, and again, again, one more steel man, I'll add into this to kind of enforce that point home. Someone could absolutely go to something like chat chubby team, do a do a 10 chain long prompt about, I'm looking to plan on vacation with my family, I'm looking for this, here's my parameters, here's my information. They then get recommended a list of destinations or a list of maybe companies or places to stay.

Maybe not. That's sort of immaterial to my point here. And then they go, oh, cool, yeah, you know what? I've never been to, I've never been to Key West, Florida. But I've heard about Key West. Maybe that would be fun for us. You know, hey, we can fly from Miami and then drive a car down. I'm just making up some fictional scenario with this person that's looking to do a trip.

And they go, yeah, that sounds good. Then they go and search Key West vacation rentals. They find, we actually have a client worker in Key West. They find that client to get a booking. So Google gets all the credit, but they might have got that idea very plausibly from like an LLM, chat, TBT, quote, unquote, search or style exploration. Right. So, again, that's what the counterpoint.

point to these people that say, well, you know, LMs are play school, that I'm a little bit more skeptical of because I don't know if the LM will handle the whole thing end-to-end. It certainly does not right now, but it certainly can be very much that like inspiration or where to go thing. We have a client who was telling us a story. I think he took a trip right around Christmas time with memory serves with his family and he was like, you know, I actually did it. I went chat TBT and I said, I want to go somewhere new. Here's the parameters. Here's where I live. Here's kind of some information about it. You know, my unique situation. And my wife and I love to go somewhere wine tasting, but we don't want to go all the way to the West Coast. He lives

in the East Coast. So they suggest this place. I think it ended up in Niagara Falls as memory serves. There's like some wine type thing going on up there. He had this vacation had a great time. So again, he booked some hotel or some vacation rental in Niagara Falls off of chat TBT, but it wasn't from chat TBT, right? It wasn't like he clicked on a link from chat TBT and they made a booking. It was that that led that brainstorming led him to inspiration to go there, and then he ended up making that reservation. So that's kind of part of what we think is that if we're building influence or building awareness for our destination or hopefully our company, that we will get discovered more and more. And that's the TBD.

if I could steal me in a little bit, I just would want to say that, that side of it. And that's where these pages will come into play. But yeah, anything you want to add in there before it goes to some other things? I mean, it is. I think you're just outlining the key to the need to do multi-step with, if you're asking, well, how did you hear about us? You need to make that a multi-check option, first of all. But it is.

This is, it's always been the case for social. It's tough to measure that true brand amplification awareness stuff that you have. And it's going to be equally hard on the, the LLM. So having that visibility and having some type of baseline and understanding that, I think that's why step one is going to be so important in really making sure step three, four, five is very effective. Yeah, yeah, couldn't agree more. So, you know, to come to, you know, last few things here, I know we're up against it a little bit time-wise. But yeah, I mean, it's once you, we, so to recap where we've got so far, we know how often we show up

currently. We know who's traveling to our destination and what kind of pages, what kind of content we want to influence them with. We've made those pages on the website. We've improved our, you know, E-E-A-T, in some degree, or we've improved our local expertise by author bioboxes, by Nevada's page, that sort of thing. We've made sure that Google, or all these different platforms can crawl the website. Then at that point, I think it's kind of like, it's that retracking again, like, okay, now let's go back in there and let's do the tracking again and see how these things are changing. Now, TBD and how long that will take, right? Again, that's what we don't know. Is this going to be a 30-day thing, 60-day thing, 90-day thing? Again, we'll figure all that out

as we go along here. But I think if you're doing those things, those to me feel like very tangible. I feel like, by the way, they could help SEO anyways. Let's say that let's say you end up with no more geo referrals from chaty BT. Let's say if you go through this whole process. I don't think you've wasted your time or I think that we've wasted our time. If you do this for clients. I think that there will be some lead over traditional SEO here. Again, TBD on where we'll all land there. But I think that's actually probably and if not probably a positive. It's the case. And yeah, again, like you're building more traffic. You're building more influence. This is the direction that things are going in. What you don't want to do, I think, I suspect as you go

along here on the optimization side of things is be super far behind on this. I would say if anything, we feel like we're going pretty slow here. But what you don't want to do is have no content. Because when I go do an audit on our website and I see no content, no blog posts, and they've been around for five years, I'm just like, you are silver behind. And there's clients that we've taken on who have been the smaller property manager and destination that over like even six or eight months of focused effort on content creation, link building, getting ads running, et cetera.

We overtake the legacy manager that has 300 units and it's been around for two decades. And it's like Google kind of rewards that like upswing. I suspect these LLM models will do a little bit of the same, that they'll reward this upswing of brand awareness and mentions and things like that, and you'll get a lot more visibility. So that's kind of where we land. You know, I'm happy to, by the way, to come to a closer, I'm happy to send this checklist to people.

Like, I have no problem with that. I don't think we're gatekeeping anything here. So if you want to look at this checklist or it has some of our internal notes in it, but feel free to email me, Conrad to build up bookings, put like LLM SEO audit podcast in the subject line or something so I know what's up. And I could send you this, but let's call it our first draft and more drafts to come, I'm sure, as we go along here. No.

No, Bo anything else to put a bow on this one? I was going to say, ultimately all, everything we've said, like everything in the checklist, everything that we're saying here. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's going to impact your SEO in a positive way. Like, this is not going to have a negative impact on the SEO. Like, these are all things that reinforce the principles that we have talked. So that that's the underlying is that this is still SEO. It's, this is no, really no different than what, what we're doing right now. I think it's just, I think anybody who's trying to separate an LLM audit and an SEO audit is trying to charge a little bit too much.

But outside of that, I think it is. Ultimately, a lot of these things are net positive for both sides of the equation. And it's not really both sides. It's all one equation. So make it happen, start doing it and making sure you're on top of some of the cases. I think it's Patel, Neil Patel Digital, or one of those larger kind of agencies is trying to do search everywhere optimization. So they're still calling it SEO, but it's like, that's kind of their premise. Yeah, you know, you know, growing up out.

but I digress. So we'll see. A fun one here. Guys, we are not anti-LLM by any stretch of the imagination. We're not anti-G-O. We're trying to figure out ways

to make it practical, make it helpful, and, you know, move the needle for people. So fun one there. If you got all over the end, dear listener, you're pretty awesome. Leave us a review.

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