Heads In Beds Show - Is Creating Content Even Worth It Anymore? A Debate

Episode Date: July 30, 2025

In this episode of The Heads In Beds Show, the guys DEBATE the content creation benefits. With AI overviews stealing a ton of your traffic, does it even make sense to take the crumbs of clicks that are left?⭐️ Links & Show NotesPaul Manzey Conrad O'ConnellConrad's Book: Mastering Vacation Rental MarketingConrad's Course: Mastering Vacation Rental Marketing 101🔗 Connect With BuildUp BookingsWebsiteFacebook PageInstagram🚀 About BuildUp BookingsBuildUp Bookings is a team of creative, problem solvers made to drive you more traffic, direct bookings and results for your accommodations brand. Reach out to us for help on search, social and email marketing for your vacation rental brand.

Welcome to the Heads and Meds show presented by BuildUp Bookings. We teach you how to get more vacation properties, earn more revenue per property, master marketing, and increase your occupancy. Take your vacation rental marketing game to the next level by listening in. I'm your co-host Conrad. And I'm your co-host Conrad. And I'm your co-host Paul. All right, we are live. Red light is blinking. What's happening, Paul? It's hot. It's hot. Summer. It's hot. And I'm not, even though I'm wearing my golf gear, I feel like I'm lacking in the golf side of things. So we got, you know, it's, it's just that the summer is flying by. So that's just see also every other year here. But

how are you doing? How are things going? Yeah, it's been a very busy week for me. Was sometimes people and people say that a lot. Do you ever notice that? By the way, ask someone other girl. Oh, yeah, busy, always busy. And sometimes it's a little bit of a farce like I'm busy. And I'm doing it with like hobbies or family responsibilities, commitments. Not this was just like 60 hours of work, just work this week. You know, it was nothing else outside of that. I got to do no hobbies, no interest,

not family time, just literally straight up busy. So hey, it's all good. There was what's the expression? There's a time where if you showed your previous self what you were doing today, they wouldn't believe it. I kind of feel that way sometimes. Yeah, actually, funny enough, two days ago was the nine, nine year anniversary of build up bookings if you can believe. So yeah, nine years ago, as of two days ago, was the day that I felt like I officially opened my doors when I left the previous agency I was working out and started my own thing. So that now means I have one year to figure out what do

we do for a 10 year anniversary of a company, most companies don't make it a two or three years. So what do you do for a 10 year anniversary? I'm not sure I'll need to think about that one a little bit. Got some time. Got some time. Yeah, I got some time to think. You know, it's interesting, though, Paul, when I think back to that nine year, you know, nine years ago, and at this point timeframe, and even the work I did marketing before that, is that content has been the most common thread through all of that. I

mean, really, the first thing that I learned in SEO, if I think way back to like 2011 2012, when I first heard the word SEO, the first thing that you do when you go online is you learn about how to structure your page, how to put the right content on the page, the right keywords on the page to rank it in Google. So today's topic is that maybe that stuff I learned back in 2011, or when I opened my company in 2016, or stuff that we used to work on even hack back in 2021, is it even valuable anymore? Is the concept even have any value to it? Or is the content useless? So we've kind of formatted this one a little bit differently for the listener.

We're gonna have maybe a little bit of debate. We don't debate every single week on the show. I'm gonna have little moments here and there where we might disagree slightly, and that's okay. It would be boring if we agreed on everything all the time. But I'm gonna take the position that I still think content has a little bit more value in it left in it.

I think the runway is a little bit longer. Paul may take the position that he's a little more skeptical of that. And we're gonna kind of spar here a little bit. value left in it. I think the runway is a little bit longer. Paul may take the position that he's a little more skeptical at that and we're gonna kind of spar here a little bit. And for the listener, maybe they'll get some value out of us having this discussion and understanding more where the content comes from. So that sets the table.

Here's my opening arguments. Feel like we're in court right now. You know, I'm a lawyer. I'm trying to convince the listener that we're talking about here. All right, so we've hit the gavel, the judge is sitting there, and here's kind of the thought process that I have.

Many, many moons ago, let's call it two or three years ago, I was confronted by someone at a conference, and we've talked about this person in the podcast before, who kind of said that content has no value back then, because content doesn't drive conversions. They looked at all their numbers, they looked at all their analytics,

and they said, when people go to a blog post about the best things to do in Destin, Florida, on their website, they don't convert. So what in the world is the point of us doing this content? And it's true, first of all, that most people who go to content pages in the past historically don't convert. Now what's happening is that content is just getting a lot less traffic because the traffic has been chewed away completely on the SEO side by AI overviews.

So that's the context the movie sets up. But what I told that person back then, what I still feel today, this is still my case, is that that content isn't necessarily made for conversion. And that's okay. Not every single piece of content that you publish or thing that goes on the website has to be made for conversion, because we sometimes have these almost like secondary actions we have to take to get to the primary goal or the primary outcome. So my contention or my thesis has been now for nine years, that the best way to get to the primary goal or the primary outcome. So my contention, or my thesis has been now for nine years, that the best way to get a website ranking for competitive terms, like let's say

Destin Florida vacation rentals or San Diego vacation rentals or Myrtle Beach or Pick Your Market of Choice, there's thousands of them out there, the best way to get a content ranking for those money terms, like the vacational terms, having content supporting your site and showing Google that you're an expert in that destination will help you get there, along with, of course, links and doing a lot

of other solid best page on-page SEO practices, that sort of thing. So again, technical link building, keyword research content are my four pillars of SEO, content being not just the pages that you make for collections and oceanfront properties, pet-friendly properties, but also blog content, and that that working together leads to the best outcome. It is a bum and that that working together leads to the best outcome. It is a bummer that that traffic has gone away. However, I don't believe that the traffic that is still remaining is valueless, nor do I believe that creating that content is valueless, because I still think it helps

that site become an expert. So I will cede my time to Mr. Manzi, and he can argue against it. This is a fun debate, because admittedly, I'll go back to the beginning, too. I wouldn't be in this space were it not for content creation and just content creation because that is all I did. I just sat and we game the system. I mean, we were playing the game. We made sure that when someone did search for family resorts in Brainerd, Minnesota

or a blowing rock in North Carolina, you're going to show up. Because ours and Lodges is going to show up. So I knew how to play the game. That's all that's all I knew how to play. And clearly, there's still value in creating content. And that's that's, that is something that is undeniable. I have to start off by saying no, it's worth it.

He's already receding, folks. I am receding. But I do, I genuinely have come to a couple calls. I mean, I'm sure people, if you're listening to this and you were on calls with me where I had just this moment of is it really worth it? I mean, I am not feeling the pain generally of the chasm of the impressions to clicks. I think generally we still have a lot of people that I'm working with that we're still seeing

clicks take up or there's still some consistency level there. But I do as you see more of the searches that were just givens that you would get to, a 10 result page, 10 blue links, whatever that looks like for anybody there. And that's obviously morphed. It's rare that I don't think there are too many 10 link pages out there anymore. Whether you're taking into consideration ads, map pack, anything like that, much less than anything with AI overviews, which is not, doesn't account for everything, but it's a lot there. So it is when you're not getting clicks from there, you're not getting clicks from traditional lodging

terms, and you're missing out on those AI overviews, because people are, I think that this is what gets me is that it's not that you're not getting the clicks, it's that people are getting the answers in the LLM, in Google Gemini, whatever the the Google Gemini or the Google AI mode, whatever we're talking about, right? Because they're kind of different, aren't they? Then I think that that that is a distinction. They've they've kind of like when they switched on AI mode on search, I thought it was interesting. I don't know if you've noticed it as well. That's something that the corresponding changes are the corresponding ad set that they put out there. We were in or in a

movie. And that was one of the previews was kind of taking you through the experience of probably someone in my age group, down to your age group in that range there. And it was how we've kind of developed ourselves and how we've kind of gone through life with the help of Google. And now kind of presenting that as a, this is how AI mode is gonna take that and run with it. Make it, you know, make your life better, improve it like it had previously. But it was very interesting to see them

kind of shift into that. This is what search is. This is exactly what it has been for the last 20 years. The searches you've done, this is how you've planned your life. Now you're just going to do it in an AI mode. So I do. I just think that when the answer comes from Google,

do you want to give Google the credit? I get it. We have to balance that. But I think, and I can't imagine if you're dealing with more on the true e-commerce side of things where we're not working in the meta search side as much on the vacation rental side. We don't have the true pull coming away, but the Airbnb discussion is one that we can have maybe down the road here a little bit as well as we've had some more recent headlines that

have probably contributed to what this whole thing is coming down to is just, I'm all about more maximizing your visibility. I'm all about brand awareness. I'm all about all those things. And I believe strongly in the fact that, yeah, the best content that we're getting for these non-related lodging specific keywords is absolutely building a better experience for users

and and ultimately we do we have talked about it's not about getting less traffic it's about getting the right traffic and finding ways to keep them in the funnel that's it like if you're if you're not if you're getting that traffic and not finding ways to get them to convert we've got other conversations to have so that's a roundabout way of saying, I'm not happy with the developments of LLMs. I'm not happy that it appears that solid content creators, publishers, good people online and it's not the first time, are getting punished by LLMs. We've been punished arbitrarily by Google. But having someone just straight up steal the content and steal the

answer feels malicious. It feels like that like it's like you're truly coming at someone there. And I don't know that's my stop point and just I'll take a couple breaths here and maybe take a drink and see. Yeah, so I see what you're saying. So you're kind of like, well, first of all, there's almost like a philosophical angle here to discuss, which is just like what you were heading on at the'll see. Yeah, so I see what you're saying. So you're kind of like, well, first of all, there's almost like a philosophical angle here to discuss, which is just like what you were heading on at the end there. Yeah, it's like, man, it's really frustrating that Google takes this traffic from us takes our

basically snippets of our article puts it right in the search results. And now, you know, we just don't get the traffic up because we did anything wrong. But because Google, there used to be a deal, the deal was, I give you content, you give me traffic, that was the deal. Now, this is a whole nother sidebar. And you kind of touched on the end there. I think media businesses are in a world of trouble, like a TripAdvisor style business. I couldn't be more bearish on that type of business existing in its current form.

Two, 34 years from now. I've said that a lot over the past year, because in theory they have this data. You know, how valuable is that data long term? I don't know. But it just gets shoot up by the LLM. And then it's like, all right, you know, it's really interesting. Where's that? Where's the new stuff going to come from? That's really interesting question. So if what you're saying is true, and people are de incentivized by creating content, additional

content, then when the new restaurant opens, who's going to be there to cover it two years from now, because all the people creating content and say, well, why am I bothering to do this? Right? Like, there's no purpose in doing it. Where's the AI because the AI training data is now training off of AI written articles. So it's almost like this weird self-enforcing loop that's probably gonna happen. So again, that's more philosophical

than it is practical, I suspect, for most people listening, but it is like a fair thing. Now, go ahead. That's something that I saw. There was another article. So there's a couple articles that I was looking at. Like there is, there's an MIT study that is showing that people,

the critical thinking skills of people using Google search versus chat. Yeah, there's a lot to put that that link in the show notes. Yeah, because that's one. Yeah, that's worth it for people to read and just see like, we are we're having we're seeing the diminishing of our critical thinking skills because we can't critically put together the search terms to do it like it is we've gotten into copy and paste mode And it's that's a scary one

But another one was that we're at a point now where the LLMs are being trained on actual Content that's been generated. That's that's AI generated content like we're not reaching Stagnation or anything like that We're not diminishing our returns quite yet, but more so we're getting to that point I think a lot faster than anybody who was projecting things out a year ago at this time. This is, we're not giving it anything like the LLMs have digested everything. Now it's digesting stuff that it hadn't digested previously, which is a lot of AI generated content. So this is a dangerous loop.

I think we could be seeding into there a little bit as well. I do agree with that. I think that's fair. And so again, we've gotten a little far from the core idea. Well, let me go back this way. If I could steel man your approach, your position, here's how I think about this too a little bit. It's not that the content has no value. I think we both agree it has less value purely from a

traffic standpoint. We're in alignment there. My question would be, and let's say we stop doing that. What are we replacing that activity with in our marketing activities that we yield a better result? That could be the way that I steal in your argument to say, okay, the traffic is eroded enough to where I think this is not going to drive as much value as before. Therefore, it's not that it's useless or it has no value. you and I both agree, there's some value there. But Michael, so that's my question back to you, what what would you replace it with? So if you were, let's say, again, a gun to your head, you can no longer do the independent consulting project

work you're doing today. You have to go work at a vacational company, let's say it's a relatively large, successful company, 200 units doing, I don't know, 7 million a year gross booking revenue, I'm just making up numbers here. So they're doing well, they have good marketing budget,. And you walk in there day one and you say, all right, team, we're gonna stop doing any concentration. We're not gonna post any new blog posts on the website, written blog posts on the website.

And instead we're going to do ABC. What would ABC be that would yield a better result from your perspective? Do you think? Owner content, owner content, owner content. I mean, and that's, it is, that's a little tongue in cheek as well. But truly, I do think that if everybody focuses

on the gas side, because that's how you have to build up your business. That's how you have to get the business to grow. This is how you get it to a point where you can get to the point where you're hiring someone like us. You're getting revenue managers. It's more about improving the business and optimizing the business, enhancing the business, growing the business. You can't get to that point without putting the focus on travelers. But I think at a certain point, it's one of the things that wasn't inventory. It wasn't always about growth. It was about

making sure that you're putting forth the best inventory of properties. I think that that's where the people who had the right mindset were not thinking about, how can I grow 20 properties? It's how can I make sure the 200 that I have in this case are the best possible 200 properties? I think that's educating your owners. I think that's making sure that everybody understands. Brooke does a really good job of putting out some of those homeowner tips. I think you had that webinar with 21 homeowner tips of how to just do the touching of properties of property management. I think that there's so much to be said of putting forth that owner content and really educating people because not only are you educating homeowners,

but it gives you a chance to kind of realign the whole business. And I think just in the whirlwind fashion that we run our businesses in is that you lose that standardization, you lose that brand identity, you lose a lot of these pieces. And so I think that that owner content is like a cheat code

to be able to say, okay, well, let's reevaluate. What's our brand messaging? What are the USPs? It's not just owner content. I think that there's always just some additional added value of you have to reevaluate how you're selling because obviously the way you're selling to a traveler, you're selling an individual unit or an individual experience to a certain extent there. There's so much more that comes into whining and dining and marketing to that homeowner where you do have to have more of that solid foundation, more of those best practices in place. And I do, I think that that just makes that homeowner content more valuable, whether it is, I mean, it is, you don't need them. ROI projection is great, but like giving someone the values of your company and making that a beautiful piece of content. I think some things that you can physically, as a digital marketer, it hurts me to say it, but you

can physically tangibly touch. That's good stuff. That's that's certainly beneficial. And with an onsite property management company, you should have something where there's something physical to hand someone. Yeah, so here, here would be my rebuttal to that. I think it's kind of like a recipe, right? The mix in effort, collectively, or budget wise between homeowner and guest marketing. And I think sometimes a small company, I've talked about this at length, gets fooled into thinking that they can do just homeowner marketing,

no guest marketing, and get some kind of result. And you and I, I think our alignment in that that's a very danger. That's a very narrow, narrow path to success. If it works, it's very uncommon, you know, for the for the most part, the biggest companies and I talked about this recently on I think was a show that we did. I do too many shows sometimes. Okay, it actually might have been with Adam. Sorry about that. Um, we talked about this fact that the biggest companies this game is unfair on the management side because the biggest companies get the most leads. So if you're one of the top two, three companies in a given market, a large market in

particular, some of the ones you and I have that worked on in the past in these large markets, they get 80% of the homeowner leads because they the guests are the excuse me, the homeowner goes and looks and sees amazing guest marketing, they see a website, they see a Facebook page with all these likes this engagement. And they go, they're big, they're huge, they're local, they seem no good reuse, I'm just gonna reach out to that. So I do think that, again, if there's a recipe towards

guests and homeowner marketing, there's people often have that recipe or that ratio very wrong. I think you and I can agree on that piece of it. So if you don't invest into the guest marketing assets and you instead put that effort in a homeowner assets, I can get next to you on that a little bit with respect to how people are doing, again, far too little of one typically. Well, in many situations, they're doing far too little of both. Let's assume they're putting some effort in.

They tend to maybe start by doing I want some more direct bookings. If that's not working, maybe they try to pivot out and say, I'm going to sign on with a you know, owner, Legion service, there's there's a few out there. Obviously, you know, we're partial to Venturi for obvious reasons. You know, people, okay, I'll do that. But again, that's no guarantee of success, because you may not have the infrastructure or the brand awareness to where that messaging

is actually compelling or convincing. That's one thing I think people don't understand when they're small is just like, if I tell people I do a good job, surely they'll believe me. It's like, no, they will not. You have to actually prove it, not just say it. So yeah, again, to go back to what you're saying there, I can kind of get on the same page where it's like, instead of doing 10 articles on the best things to do in Destin, Florida, if I did 10 articles on really going deep in the sauce on here's exactly how I manage your property, and here's the little nuances of the value that I get in doing activity ABC versus DEF. Like, let me give you a specific example. This helps me to make it more tangible. We have a client right now in the

Virginia mountains who is doing sauna installations on a few properties already has hot tubs at almost all them, but is doing sauna installations at some of them. And it's TBD on how well it's going to work. But the but the theory would be that a sauna would potentially increase demand, potentially increase occupancy, potentially, of course, increase rates as well. Because people are that's kind of this growing health trend as well. You got to get cold, you got to get hot. Personally, personally, I hate the cold stuff. But yeah, different discussion for a different day. So we'll see right he put I think he put him in three right now, primary service two or three. We actually did a page for it on his website, we're going to try to see people are clicking through it. And TBD three right now, if I'm resurfaced, two or three. We actually did a page four on his website.

We're gonna try to see people are clicking through it. And TBD, if it'll work. But let's say three months from now, four months from now after the season's kind of wrapped up and maybe finalized on that side, or maybe actually it might make sense to do this at the beginning of the calendar year, where through fall at that point,

and that maybe people are more interested in a sauna experience in the fall and winter in this destination, is let's see how it works. All right, we gave the sauna six months. We got enough data coming in here to indicate that these properties are doing better or worse. We have year over year data of properties that added the sauna, properties that didn't add the sauna

that are in similar locations, similar views, similar amenities, that kind of stuff. So we have a scientific of a test as we're gonna get, generally speaking, with the sauna. That could be a whole story that he tells about adding a sauna to your property increases revenue by XYZ or adding sauna to your property, you can get those to owners, doesn't seem to make a meaningful difference in revenue. You know, we don't know because the stories yet to be

told the data is yet to be collected. But that's a pretty darn compelling piece of messaging or media or copy to send out. That's rooted in fact, like AI can do that. You know, AI could make some general recommendation of like, okay, conceptually, here's what it could look like to potentially add a sauna. That's cool. But you want to know the actual answer, right? You don't want some AI slop answer of like, yeah, some people like saunas. Consider adding sauna. The real answer is, well, it's going to cost me XYZ.

Justify that. That's what the owner is going to say, right? Justify that $7,000 investment. In the week, you're going to have to block my property to get it installed and working and tested and all that kind of stuff. So that's where I can kind of get aligned with you there, which is that if the ratio is off, a balance to that ratio may be in check.

And maybe if you're in good shape on the guest marketing side and you feel, I'm gonna say demotivated by these changes, but maybe that is the right word, demotivated by these changes, to your point, why not lean into owner, you know, constant creation for three months and see what happens to your lead gen flow?

That I could roll with. So maybe we're a little bit more aligned on that concept if you want to add in anything. Absolutely, no, I mean, I think that that's something that obviously, this is a fun episode for me because we're going some little more daring viewpoints here and it is, I think that that's because we've seen it under corrected for so long to over correct it,

I think it's not a question. Now realistically, if you're creating content right now, you're creating video. I think that's that is the thing that is is a non-negotiable and we have talked about that over and over. Now making sure that it's applicable to the channels that you're trying to hit right now, that may be something that there's been a focus on just video, just getting video video content I think we've got on you know the note on here being social content like actually filming some video specifically for social No thinking taking into consideration Vertical video when you're shooting some video or doing some things like that is going to be critical because yeah

Maybe not from a organic search perspective I do see I will say that I do see more video results that show up in Google search. So I have to think that that's gonna continue to be the case with Google AI or whatever that looks like as well. But I mean you just you have to be considering where some of those other searches are. Google's still a bulk of the search don't that that is not in dispute. I'm sorry. Anybody who wants to say otherwise, I'd love to have a long conversation with you about why that is

Nepal, there's seven people on LinkedIn that say that I use Google anymore. So I'm assuming Google is a Google is done. Yep, that's it. So but but that does but that does not mean that people aren't using tik tok more frequently aren't using TikTok more frequently, aren't using Reels more frequently, aren't using Google Shorts more frequently, YouTube Shorts more frequently to get some of that inspiration. So do you absolutely need to be considering that content and how do you optimize for those channels?

Yep, that is one that, yeah, it can be owner content, it can be guest content, I guess. But yes, video is a non-negotiable. And I would say we probably agree for the most part on that. Yeah, I actually just put a link in the chat that the listener can't see, but I don't think you've seen this before. It's this link, it's a LinkedIn post that I've scheduled that's coming out.

By the time you're probably listening to this episode, it came out, so scroll back in my feed to July 9th. Time zones are very weird. I'll record this before then. Yeah, yeah, Yeah, absolutely. Anyways, what it's showing for the listener is that there's a new block in Google called what people are saying and they're actually indexing tick dot content, Instagram content videos, and they're actually pulling out the transcript, they understand it a little bit

better. And they're putting a block in the search results almost like they have had different blocks in the past, like with Twitter, they had a partnership with Twitter when it was Twitter before it was X. That's one of the things. They've done that. Showing, yep, exactly. Reddit being the best current example I agree with you there 100%. Saying, yeah, so we do a search right now, at least at the time of this recording for Pitch and Forge cabins. You see three videos, two from TikTok, one from Instagram,

but if you scroll over, you'll see some Instagram videos as well. Basically saying like, yeah, it's basically videos featuring cabins, you know, and that's where I think. So the LinkedIn post, by the way, for you, because you haven't seen it yet, it hasn't come out yet, is I said attribution is already a nightmare. This new social indexing feature from Google is always going to make things worse.

So imagine this. A user goes on Google, a guest, and searches Pigeon Forge Cabins on Google. Makes sense. Typically, they might click on an organic result or an ad or nothing. But for the simplicity sake, they click on organic result and ad.

Now they can click on a link from Instagram or TikTok. They can view that creator's profile visit, perhaps your direct booking website through a link tree or through some other, you know, affiliate code. And then they get to the website center for the email list. Then they 10 days later, make a booking at the cabin they saw when they did that search, who gets credit for that does to email that credit is a tick tock get credit is a link tree send the referral who

did the sign up Did they get credit? Google search got no credit, I believe, right? Because the Google search led them to TikTok, which then led them to your website, right? But that's just a mess disaster. So I'm telling that not to hopefully create a massive migraine in the head of listener right now is listening to this. But instead, just realize like this marketing stuff, attribution wise is just really, really messy right now. And if you're seeing the results you want, you should probably keep doing more of what you're doing and not overly worry about the last click. I think the last click gets you in trouble because you only see that last thing that led them there. And you don't

see the, in some cases, seven to 24 days before that, all the marketing touch points they had before they made that reservation. And no, you know, multi-tannual reporting and analytics is not even close to sufficient enough to show how people behave on when booking because so many people do research on one device or one person does research and then someone else actually books the property which kills all of our tracking. So it's not a sufficient methodology to actually use this tracking in that way.

So anyways, you saw that for the first time but I kind of reinforce what you're talking about here which is like, okay, if we're not going to do blogs and we do a bunch of TikTok videos and Instagram videos of amazing cabins in the Pigeon Forge that may yield more traffic ironically from Google than the way that we were doing it before. What's really killing me or what's striking me about your screenshot, I can't stop looking

at is the I mean, the fact that travel content creator is the subhead, like this is, yeah. Oh, boy, for I do, I think that that's going to be that I think that opens up a whole new game for influencer type of marketing. Yeah, I think there is going to be for better or worse. And I would say for worse in this case, if that either ranks ahead of, you know, is is boosted is weighted in some way that's that's meant to show over a business, which I don't know, there was a lot of talk about kind of the creator summit at Google Marketing Live where I mean, they were talking,

they were already, they brought on a creator to talk about some of the new features that are available for creators. So if they're gonna, again, if you're gonna add value an individual creator over a vacation rental management company in the market with the videos you're gonna show there, oh boy. Oh, now we have bigger questions.

Is it what, boy, this episode is writing itself. Yeah. Well, it's, you know, so it's the broader discussion. Okay, is content, let's define content better because content is to your point, vertical short-perm video. Content is both guest and homeowner. Content is written and audio and visual. Obviously, you're listening right now to audio piece of content.

Content is so many things. Is content still worth creating for your vacational business? Absolutely. Should you re-index your recipe or re-index the diet of content that you're producing and you're giving out to the guests? Probably that's a really good idea. It might be a good idea to continually evaluate that every quarter or twice a year, that sort of thing, and say, is what we're doing working?

Are we getting the results we want? If we're seeing less traffic, does that automatically mean that we shouldn't do it anymore? Again, I still posit no, that we should not do it at all anymore. But it may mean that maybe you could take a season off or a season into investing in a new channel and then see what happens,

assuming you're willing to be somewhat patient. I think that's kind of maybe the last, maybe final thought that I would have before we kind of come to maybe a close here a little bit, which is that you can't do, you know, five short form vertical videos on your Instagram page or build a brand new TikTok page, do that and go, yeah, we tried to vertical short form video not really working for us, right? You probably have to put out 50 to 100 to 500 videos to really see the the yield, you know, benefit working in your favor, whether it's on TikTok or Instagram or something like that. On the homeowner marketing side of things, you might have to put out 50 to 100 to 500 videos to really see the the yield, you know, benefit working in your favor, whether it's on TikTok or Instagram or something like that. On the homeowner

marketing side of things, you might have to have a dozen touch points that person might have to be in your funnel for and Brooks talked about this at length on some of the stuff that we've done with him. Most people who sign a contract were at once in a long term nurture stage in the Victoria CRM. So that means that they were in this stage where they had gotten the sales pitch, they got a proposal, they got a contract presented to them, they didn't sign it, they didn't do it. We put them into some kind of long-term nurture sequence, and then they sign after that. So that

could be a 90-day process of them being aware before they actually start that process. It could be a 90-day process. It could be a nine-year process for some people to choose a property manager, you know, and come to a destination and go, I want to buy a property here one day. And then they eventually list, you know, with someone that they stayed go, I want to buy a property here one day, and then eventually list, you know, with someone they stayed with, that can be a really long process. So marketing is oxygen in your business, we agree on that, you should probably be carefully considering, you know, exactly how you distribute out your formats of content, how well that content is working, reviewing its performance

consistently and understanding it. And if you try new channel, you got to give it a fair shake, you got to give it a long period of time to really let it succeed. And you got to give the person an agency, someone on your team, freelancer, contractor, consultants, fractional CMO, whatever. You got to give them the resources necessary to make that a success before you just pull, you know, rip cord right away and say something's not working. I mean, I think that's we've hit the goal at the end is that, yeah,

I mean, it's there still the value in content is undescribable, indescribable, undeniable, whatever that is. But I think it's consistency. And it's making sure that you're continuing to... You shouldn't turn off content. You're always creating content. That's kind of got to be it because yes, you need content daily, weekly, monthly. Just think about the cadence that we need content at different times. It's just you need to have a lot of it. So yes, we need to have different channels. We need to have different mediums. We need to be exploring with different types of content, but do we still need to keep creating content? Absolutely. They're just, that's something that will never not be a case in that I can

perceive in the imminent future. And again, that's when there's no content, what was marketing anything anymore at that point? I what brand building are you doing? That's maybe how I would close you in. So and if you don't want to do brand building, by the way, I think that's perfectly fine. You know, I've a post that's coming out on Airbnb is probably is already out now,

talking about the fact that like, there's so many comments now on about this Airbnb payment changes. I didn't feel the need to add any more comments into it. It's been beat to death now by probably 50 people. I don't care. Let me give you the spoiler alert here, dear listener. The Airbnb changes that they make in the winter this year

and the spring of next year and the summer of next year and the winter of next year aren't gonna be good for you either. Like Airbnb is going to continue to do what's best for Airbnb. Look no further than another company that we're all familiar with, Amazon. Amazon has treated sellers worse and worse and worse and worse and worse over time. They've increased their yield, they've increased how much they've taken seller fees. They made selling on Amazon this barely profitable experience enough where they get a lot of money and you get very little of it. And because Amazon has captured and sort of swallowed so much of e-commerce, they get away with it.

So if you continue to let Airbnb get away with all the reach and say, oh, the only place you can book is on Airbnb, you're feeding your beast, you know, that's gonna eventually grow up and break out of the cage and eat you. You know, there's a weird plot line. I feel like there's a Star Wars plot in there somewhere,

you know, where the monster eventually, Jabba the Hot, right? Doesn't he get a Snorlax? But yeah, you know, that's that's the thing, right? So don't get mad at Airbnb for this one particular payment change, and be so shocked by this, right? And see how it gets enforced, because it's only going to get worse from here, right? Like, and every once in a while, sure, they'll hear some negative feedback, and they might reverse course a little bit. But like, over time, they're going to have to show growth, they're gonna have to make more money every single quarter, they have to make more profit every single quarter, or Wall Street doesn't like them.

So they're gonna do things that are best for Wall Street, and they're not gonna do what's best for you. And eventually, it'll be their demise. This is how every single company goes. Like, it's surprising me that people are, I guess, up in arms about something that feels so obvious from the outside, when you look at it objectively, you know, with like this more neutral point of view, you know, and I think it's because people made a lot of money off Airbnb, they're partial to them, you know, with like this more neutral point of view, you know, and I think it's because people made a lot of money off Airbnb, they're

partial to them, you know, whatever Airbnb they identified with, maybe it was the pre IPO Airbnb, or maybe it was the original couch dressing style Airbnb, that Airbnb is gone. So like, there's no point in even looking looking for a relic of that machine, because the machine is gone. What they have now is not whatever it was before. So don't even stress about it. There's no point even getting stressed about it. Build your own engine. Use Airbnb, absolutely. You should use them because they drive a lot of traffic.

They drive a lot of bookings. Kudos credit and all the optimization in the world is a good idea, I believe in it. But just have an exit plan. Just have your constant creation plan dialed in to where you can build on that too. And then I think you're gonna get the results you're after. So, you know one thing that's not going out of fashion

or it's not gonna die anytime soon, Paul, is leaving a podcast review. It always helps us out. So go to your podcast app of choice. Again, we know there's not going out of fashion, or it's not gonna die anytime soon, Paul, is leaving a podcast review. It always helps us out. So go to your podcast app of choice. Again, we know there are tens of thousands of you that have downloaded all the episodes that Paul and I put out, and yet not that many of you left a review.

So maybe it's because we put it all the way at the end. Maybe Paul, we should do one of these at the beginning one day, the marketers that don't know much about marketing and analytics. You know, maybe we'll figure that out one day. But if you made it to the end, you're a super cool person, whether you're male, female,

wherever you are in the world, you're a super cool person that needs to leave us a review. wherever you are in the world, you're super cool person that needs to leave us or view some go to your podcast, have a choice iTunes, Spotify, listeners, you are probably number one and number two in terms of downloads. Well, you are so you probably are listening one of those apps right now. Go find heads in bed show click five stars, leave us a fun little comment makes Paul super happy, gets thrilled by it. And I do as well. So thanks so much.

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