High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 100: Be the Best You with Dr. Vernice Richards, Director of Mental Conditioning & Peak Performance, Evert Tennis Academy

Episode Date: April 10, 2017

Dr. Vernice Richards is the Director of Mental Conditioning and Peak Performance at the Evert Tennis Academy. She is originally from Trinidad and Tobago. She is a certified by the Association of Applied Sport Psychology (AASP-CC #505), received her Masters in Counseling specializing in Sports Psychology from Boston University and her PhD in Sport Psychology from Florida State University. In this interview, she discusses her pyramid of success, how she teaches breathing and mindfulness, and how we can "compete" to be the best we can be. Full shownotes are available at cindrakamphoff.com/vernice.  

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Sindra Kampoff, and I'm grateful that you're here today ready to listen to an interview with Dr. Vernice Richards. Now, the goal of these interviews is to learn from the world's best leaders, athletes, coaches, and consultants all about the topic of mindset to help us reach our potential or be high

performers in our field or sport. And today I'm going to start off with an iTunes review. This is from JKO Chanel K12. And she said, I love Sandra's accessible insights, high energy, and practical tools. Thank you so much, JKO. And she said that she is a youth competitive soccer coach and she listens to each of these podcasts on the drive to her training and to her matches. And she loves how useful the concepts are and the practical tools that she uses to help her have a psychologically informed focus

for her coaching that day. So JKO, Chanel K-12, I want to thank you so much for going over to iTunes and giving us a rating and comment there want to thank you so much for going over to iTunes and giving us a rating and comment there. So thank you so much. And as I've told you in the last few weeks, I have a goal of doubling the downloads of this podcast in 100 days. And as I interview some of the world's best, I pinch myself. I can't even believe I'm interviewing them. And I know I'm learning from them. I have a PhD in sports psychology and performance psychology and I'm learning from them.

And so I'm hopeful that you're learning from them as well. So I'm wondering if you could help me spread the word so that we can accomplish the goal of doubling the downloads in 100 days. And we're on our way, but we need your help. So I'm asking you to do one of three things. If you could tweet about the podcast, maybe this episode that you liked or maybe another episode that you found helpful, tweet about it or put it on Facebook or any kind of social media medium, that would be awesome.

Or you could head over to iTunes just like JK, Chanel K12 did and provide us a rating or a comment. Or you could tell a friend about the podcast. That would be incredible. It would help us just reach more and more people each and every week and keep these amazing interviews free and accessible to the world. And so I'll plan on giving you some updates on this goal throughout the 100 days. But we're getting there. So I just want to thank you so much for everybody who's commented or tweeted about the podcast. So I have a lot of reason to celebrate today. The podcast High Performance Mindset was named by Yahoo as one of the top 10 podcasts to listen to in the gym. So I just want to thank you to Yahoo. And

today we are celebrating our 100th episode. And wow, just amazing. I couldn't have imagined when I started this that I would actually have recorded 100 episodes. So I just want to thank everybody who has been on the podcast and all of those listeners out there who tune in each and every episode. I just want to thank you so much from the bottom of my heart for coming and listening and learning more about how you can become a high performer and use your mind to do so. So let me tell you a little bit about Vernice Richards. And there's no one better to interview for my 100th episode than Dr. Vernice. Dr. Vernice is currently the Director of Mental Conditioning and Peak Performance at Everett Tennis Academy.

She's originally from Trinidad and Tobago. She's certified by the Association for Applied Sports Psychology, and she received her master's in counseling, specializing in sports psychology from Boston University, and her PhD in sports psychology from Florida State University. And I got to know Dr. Vernice, actually, we're both speaking at the same conference at the beginning of May, a conference, Women in Sports Psychology,

brought to you by A-Game Sports Psych and Amanda over there. So if you want to check out that conference, you can go to agamesportspsych.org. Some of the gems Dr. Vernice provides. She talks about her pyramid of success, breathing as the base, and she says that you always have your breath to help you stay in the moment.

Her next level of the pyramid is present moment focus. We talked quite a bit about that in this interview. And then the top part of her pyramid is openness or growth mindset. So we talk about all three of these parts of what she teaches. She tells us actually how she teaches breathing, which is pretty cool. And we talk quite a bit about mindfulness and mindful practice. One of the things I love about this interview is her definition of compete, which is really about being the best that you can be

and doing 100% of what you can do in that moment to really be the best you and win each moment. So just listen for that. Most of all, I love Dr. Vernice's energy in this podcast. She really brought it for you today she brought it for the listeners so i just want to thank her so much for coming and and bringing us lots of golden nuggets but also um just you know really positive energy as well so you get a full description and summary of the podcast interview at cindracampoff.com slash vernice

and again we'd love to hear from you. You can head over to Twitter. I'm always on Twitter at mentally underscore strong. And Vernice is at at Vernice Richards. So without further ado, let's bring on Vernice. So welcome, Dr. Vernice, to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. I'm excited to talk with you today about your work. So to get us started, tell us a little bit about your passion and what you do. Well, I'm currently the Director of Mental Conditioning and Peak Performance at the Everett Tennis Academy. I would say it's my passion because even as an undergrad walking onto campus, I wanted

to study psychology and work with athletes. So as I continued growing through my studies and realizing that there was a discipline that did exactly that, I was completely stoked and I just jumped straight in headfirst. Oh that's great. Well tell us a little bit about how did you get to where you are now? I mean what was your schooling and tell us a little bit about your background maybe even in sport. Okay well I did my undergrad at Dillard University in New Orleans. It's a HBCU. I played tennis there, so I was a blue devil, so it's really exciting about that. Unfortunately, the Hurricane Katrina came through and tennis was one of the programs that was

discontinued. However, the university is thriving again, so I'm really excited about their having a reunion this year as well so that's going to be very exciting for a lot of us to go back and see I did my master's at Boston University under Dr. Amy Batzel so a lot of positive psychology so it's very that's also I'm really excited about everything and I did my PhD at Florida State University under Dr. Gleeson Tenenbaum. So that's all of the stats right there. Yeah, that's good. That's good.

And then when did you start at Everett Tennis Academy? It was about four years now. So I started in the summer of 2013. So I started with designing a summer program for their mental skills and then just stayed on ever since. Oh, that's great. That's great. And tell us a little bit about kind of your responsibilities. So director of mental conditioning and peak performance. Tell us what exactly you do. Right. I know it's a pretty ambiguous title,

but it pretty much covers all sports psychology services. So I do assessments on new students coming in on their mental skills and mental aptitude. I do workshops with athletes in small group sessions and one-on-one consulting. I work with coaches. We do check-ins twice a semester with athletes twice a semester. We pretty much design curriculum. Every semester, I change it, so there's a different theme, a different topic, a different way of approaching the skill, a different teaching style as well. I try to keep it as fresh as possible for them. So every year, every semester, we change the topic and the theme of everything. So that's pretty much what it is that we do here, at least that I do here. So it's pretty much

working with athletes hands-on, working with coaches. And I also have off and on parent meetings for their orientations. Okay. And I could imagine just that your experience as a college athlete and playing tennis really helps you there. Yeah. So they like to hear that. They like to hear, oh, what did I not like doing? What kinds of skills did I use when I was an athlete?

And I keep reminding them that when I was their age, in their state, I didn't have somebody like me to sort of look over my shoulder and point me in the right direction. So I always sort of preface everything I say with, you know, if I knew what I knew now, this is what I would have done. But, and they like to hear the funny story of, you know, something that I did silly or, but knowing that I understand the language of the sport and it being my sport of origin, it really opens a lot of doors for them to open up to me and see that she understands yeah exactly and I think about you know um even in my work it's like I wish that I would have known so many things that

I know now I would have been an all-american I know oh my gosh it's oh my gosh if only yeah if only if only like turn back the hands of time. Well, tell us about, you know, who comes to Chris Everett Tennis Academy? Who are the type of athletes that you work with? And we were kind of chatting before we started recording the call, but I'd love to, you know, the listeners to just to hear about who you serve there. Okay. So, well, it's a tennis academy. So we have dorms and the school on site.

So we have athletes that anywhere from ages about 12 to 13, all the way to pre-college. They come from all over the world. We have athletes from Kazakhstan, China, Russia, all over the world, Guatemala, Colombia, that come here to train on a full-time basis. So they go to school here, they live here, and then they train here for about five hours a day. And so they come from all over the world. Their main goal, some of them wanted to improve, but majority of them want to get a spot in Division I tennis. So using tennis as a vehicle for their educational goals and aspirations. So we have those athletes that are here that perform really well on the junior tours and the USDA tournaments and ITF tournaments. And then we also have some traveling pros. So we

have some pros that have come through the program that still train here, like Ayla Tomlanovic, Madison Keys trained here for quite a while. The USDA was based on this campus. So we had a lot of the professionals passing through and some of them trained specifically on the Everett side of things. And then some of them trained specifically on the Everett side of things. And then some of them also trained specifically on USDA side of things. So we had a lot of really, really up and coming stars like Belinda Benchik trains here. Lauren Davis trains here whenever they're in town. Even Nick Kyrgios trains here.

So the kids love to see him play right in front of their faces because he's quite an energetic player to watch. Wow. So you get to see a lot of what the professional players do. And I know you said that Chris Everett is there today. What do you notice that, you know, the best of the best do? Because you've had an incredible opportunity to work with them. So what do you see that separates the best from others?

Well, like I said, we have a huge range of athletes here. So, you know, some maybe a little bit of recreation and some really trying to achieve their best. I think the ones that are really focused on that goal are the ones that are most self-aware. They know what their challenges are. They know what their quote unquote faults are. They know what the things that are holding them back so that they can focus their energy on sort of breaking through those barriers. And I think that's the biggest thing is the athlete that comes to you and they, not that they don't know what it is, but they're blocked and they're not sure, but they recognize that there is something that needs fixing. Then those are the athletes that I

think are just on the cusp of breaking through. And, you know, in terms of your work with them, how would you increase someone's self-awareness in terms of like, let's say they come in and they do have, they have something holding them back and they even know what's holding them back. What do you, where do you start? Well, it's a lot of motivational interviewing. I tend to use a little bit

of an old school detective approach as well. So it's like, oh, I have no idea what you're talking about. And they have to break it down to the itsy bitsy little pieces for me. And then as they're doing that, then they get that that cartotic moment, that light bulb moment. And they're like, oh, wait, that's what I meant. And it's like, oh, really? Now tell me what does that mean? And how does that affect you? And having them come to it on their own, even though I'm guiding the process is what's really, really interesting to me as well. Yeah, absolutely. That's a, I like the motivational interviewing

and helping them have the light bulb moments. You know, you said that Chris Everett was just there. So tell us, you know, what have you learned just by observing her? What does she do differently than others? She's one of the best tennis players to ever play the game. Wow. What have I not learned tennis players to ever play the game. Wow.

What have I not learned? I think it's the question. Because I mean, every time I have any interaction with her, there's something that I can take away from the conversation. You know, she's come into groups like when I'm having a session,

she's come in and lend her thoughts to some of the topics. And she's like, oh, you know, that was really important. If I'd only known that, then I would have done this. And know showing them like okay hey this stuff is important and that's can't get enough of that in our discipline um but with just recent this this afternoon right before i logged on we were talking about you know the emotional player versus

a stoic player and um she was saying that she was more of a stoic player you know not really showing a lot of emotions and that sort of thing. But the younger players now, that's all they do, is they're very dramatic. It's the whole puberty time, I suppose you can call it. So everything is an emotion. Everything is a drama. And so we were talking about,

what's the better way to do it? And we agreed that, yes, for her, stoic worked and it was perfect but for a lot of the players now that's not really a part of the makeup so teaching it's easier to help an athlete that's emotional now than an athlete that's stoic because the stoic one doesn't show you what it is that needs help they help need help with but the emotional one you can point it out you can see it from a quarter way like hey, this is what we can work on. But the stoic ones, when they bottle it up,

it's a little bit more difficult if they don't have outlets otherwise. So that's what we were just talking about before I logged on. Really interesting conversation. But she's super competitive though. If it's one thing I hope every athlete that she interacts with gets, she competes to the nine.

No matter who she's playing against, no matter what game it is, she's giving 100% out there on the courts with girls that are 14, 15 years old. Wow. What an incredible opportunity to play tennis against her. Even if you're 14 or 15 years old, I could imagine that's like kind of a pinch me moment. Well, Dr. Bernice, tell us why you do what you do. I mean, we know in sports psychology and mental training that understanding your why is really important. So just tell us, you know, why do you do what you do in there? Why do I do it?

Oh, boy. I ask myself that question every morning. No, well, I think for me, it's seeing that light bulb moment that we talked about before. I really enjoy competing. I enjoy seeing people compete. So seeing that they understand what that means, because a lot of people, let's break that down a little bit. So when I talk to an athlete and say, okay, you need to compete, they always think I need them. I want them to beat the other person and be better than the other person. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what I

mean. I want, when I say I want you to compete, I want you to be the best you can be out there, regardless of who else is around, regardless of what the circumstances are. But if you are competing, then you're doing a hundred percent of what you can do in that moment. Not a hundred percent of what you did yesterday or the hundred percent of what you could do tomorrow. But right now, how can you be the best you? So when I watch sporting events and I watch everything and I don't have favorites, I'm just looking to see them play. And that's the best part of the whole set up for me. So when I go to tournaments or I see, I watch them play foosball or they're doing a competition of who could speak the fuzz or the whole bottle flip thing that was going on last year. I enjoy just watching that

because I'm sure they're showing me that they know how to be the best at whatever they're doing in that moment. That's why I do it. And I like that goal. Like I like that outcome that it's not about winning or not winning, you know, losing, but it's really about being the best that you can be in that moment. In that moment. Yeah. And it might change from moment to moment. Right. Yeah. And that's a difficult concept to sort of wrap your brain around because, you know, you get the medal at the end of the day, you know, you get the medal at the end of the day. You know, you get the praise at the end of the day when you win and the opposite when it is you don't win.

However, being able to win every moment, it's a little bit better. You know, it's a lot more ammunition to put in your little knapsack at the end of the day to take out tomorrow. Yeah. And when you talk about that with the athletes, you know, being the best that you can be in the moment, can you give us maybe a strategy or how you teach them to do that? Because you're right, it is maybe a difficult concept to wrap their mind around. So I'm just curious if you can tell us a little bit more. Well, I try to use a lot of rating systems so like regardless of whatever we're talking about i'm like okay so let's get a one to five what's that right now you know and and just simple like that it puts you to sweet hold on they stop for a second it's like wait right it's very second i

guess i'm like a three you know you know and then i ask them what does a three mean and then i ask what will get you to a four and that's how you work within that moment of achievement within that moment so that's what I do that's the kind of conversation that I have with them that's excellent right so then the five would be like were you your best in that moment yes like the absolute best that you could possibly imagine yourself to be and one is the absolute worst like you just didn't do it you didn't try at all. So just getting them to stop and put that number to it, it allows them to be, to stop in that second and really evaluate where they are and what they're doing. So if being the best you can be in that moment is, is the outcome. Tell us about, you know, is there a topic or concepts that you

always cover? You know, what would you say is kind of foundational to, to your understanding of mental training and how you teach the athletes to be at their best in that moment? Okay. I would say the character skill that's like really fundamental through the fabric of the entire program every semester, regardless of the topic would be open-mindedness. So that's the growth mindset, fixed mindset. I think the other thing that always fixes the present moment thinking, which goes into the whole mindfulness. So there's a lot of tenets like that. And then at the basic and base level, it would be breathing.

Because at any moment, you could always, it's something that you have complete control over. It's something that you could have no matter where you are, is the breath. So it's always easy, regardless of everything else is changing then. Okay. Hey, what does the breath feel like at this moment? So I would say in order to try to teach that I tend to break it down into those three sections, you know, the highest level is open-mindedness.

And then right under that is present moment thinking. And then under that is breathing. So we tend to look through those, those, those levels. And I mean, not everybody's at the top level and then not everybody's at the bottom level like some days they'll walk in and be like what if i just stop breathing and i'm like well that would be really unfortunate and then everybody laughs and they're like yeah you're just playing the fool and then we're back to what we're doing again right so you know so it's it's a it's an easy concept to sort of play with and you know, mold into something very serious or something very light.

So it sort of meets the athletes wherever they are. Absolutely. For sure. And tell us why the character skill of open mindedness or growth mindset. Why the foundation? Like, how do you see that as like the foundational skill? I see that as a foundation because you can't achieve anything outside of that comfort zone, right? We have that whole target image that we use all the time, that if you're right there in the middle, then it's perfect. But as you start going outside, it becomes a little bit more difficult. But in that area of difficulty is when things get more creative, when you're allowed to be your true self, when you're allowed to experiment with different things.

So with open-mindedness being the core, it's like regardless of whatever topic we're working on, resilience, integrity, self-talk, your attitude, from the basic core mental skills to those little bit more on the outskirts, a little bit more eccentric, you would say that growth mindset or open-mindedness is at the bottom.

Because if you're talking about attitude and you decide, no, this is my attitude, then where are we? We're not doing what it is. If self-talk is a topic, it's like, oh, that's what I always say, or I don't say anything at all, then where are we? Are we on the growth side or are we on the fixed side? So are we being open-minded or are we being closed-minded?

So I don't understand what he says. Somebody says something in the group. It's like, I don't agree with that. Okay, that's fine. But we could be okay with that. So are you on the fixed side or are you on the closed side? Are you fixed and closed or are you open and growth? So it always comes back to that conversation. And sometimes I have to have that conversation with myself as well. When I'm standing in front there, in the front of the group, or I'm sitting on the floor in the middle of them and somebody says something I'm like okay where am I on that continuum right now so you know there's there's been times where I would leave the group and come back the next group be like you know what I had a thought what do you think about how this made me feel and then they would say well this

made me feel like this it was like okay I get it totally understand you know but so practicing and role modeling the whole idea of living on that continuum, and you're not going to always be growth. You're not going to always be fixed. You're not going to always be closed. You're not going to always be open. But recognizing that you can go back and forth and it's okay. And I'm thinking about something like self-talk where, you know,

I've heard athletes say, well, I just can't change my self-talk or, you know, that's too hard for me I can't do it right and so fix mindset instead of like how can you learn and grow from this and how can you use the strategies to right but better and I would also commend them like oh you know what you're saying that's awesome that's amazing that's like step five and you're like already there so all we've got to do is just change a's like step five. And you're like already there. So all we've got to do is just change a word here and there. And then you're like, oh. That's not so hard.

Yeah. Okay. So, you know, you just make a big deal out of the little successes. And then they're more they're more armed to do more and they're more willing to do more. And then they're more open. They're more growth. So you sort of facilitate the change, you know, with them. Right. And I'm thinking like when you said like just change a word, maybe the, you know, instead of can't, it's can or won't is will or something like that. Well, I try not to make it so close because it's really too easy for them to flip back.

So some of the things that we say, like as you use tennis language, don't double fault, which is don't hit the ball in the net twice. And then I turned it on and you've probably heard this and I'm sure everybody that's listening probably heard this one. It's that, you know, don't think of a white elephant or one thing that we used last summer was don't think of a pink poodle. And they're like, oh, but that's what I think about. So if you say don't double fault, then what do you think about double faulting? If you say don't hit the ball in the net, then what do you think about hitting the ball in the net? If you think of don't miss that ball, then what do you think about missing the ball? So I try to give them more instructional self-talk as opposed to just changing it and making it more positive.

So don't double fault, make my tux a little bit more to the left. Don't hit the ball in the net, get lower in my legs. So what is going to help you do what you want to do instead of what you don't want to do? Nice. Nice. And that's how I try to change it. That's good. And even if, you know, people are listening and they're like, well, I don't play tennis. You can apply that to so many things, right? Like you have a presentation later on today that you want to crush, you know,

and it's like, oh, don't mess up. You know, don't get nervous. Don't get nervous. So instead, don't say this thing. Don't remember, don't say this. That's the first thing you're going to say. It's going to be the only thing in your mind. You're not going to be able to talk your way around it.

And that has happened to me. Instead, focus on the instructional things that you want to do. Right, right. What you want to do, not what you don't want to do. So, Dr. Bernice, tell us a little bit about the second area, which you said kind of present moment thinking. So with present moment thinking, that goes into the whole idea of mindfulness. And here we, like I've been trying to break it down.

So allowing mindfulness to be awareness, acceptance, right? Non-judgmental thinking. But taking it even a step further because with the athletes that I work with here, they need to be hands-on, they need to touch it. And sitting down and doing a meditation script is great, but they can't touch it, they can't feel it. So I have no control over what they're doing.

They have no control over what I'm saying. So there's a disconnect for some times until they've gotten to a level where they have that self-awareness. And last summer, I had a great idea with two of my interns, Erin Goodson out of West Virginia and Kendra Grant out of Georgia Southern.

And we started creating a program of breaking down mindfulness into six different parts. Well, I've added some parts since they've left me, but it's six different parts and making sure that it's something that they can touch and feel, the whole idea of present moment thinking. So today, for instance, we did emotional mindfulness in the group session. And it was all about what are the emotions you feel? Can you describe it? Step one. Step two, how does it make you feel physically? So getting into that moment, what does it actually feel like? And then in a perfect world, how awesome would it be if you can recognize your emotion before it happens? If you know you start

slowing down on your feet, if you know your hands start to shake, if you know your palms start to get sweaty before you are nervous or before you are angry or before you feel confused, then you have ammunition. You have something to use to make an adjustment. Not change it because we're okay with feeling nervous, right? We're okay with being angry. So not changing it, but making adjustments that we can perform at our best. So there's emotion, there's vision, there's breathing, there's movement, there's communication. So there's about six different parts that we bring down into exercises that are more, I suppose, palatable to the younger athlete. And some of the older ones too,

like some of the parents have sat in on some of the groups and they're like, wow, I had never thought about it like that. You know? So it's not, I don't expect them to just drop cross-legged on the court and hum. Right. Right. I don't expect that from you. And I think when it is, we start talking about mindfulness and meditation, that's what they think of. And that makes it a really good, a little bit more of a difficult sell.

Absolutely. You're right. And especially if maybe they haven't been used to it or right. Just to go from like no mindfulness to 10 minutes, you know, it can be really, really difficult. Well, give us another example of like, let's say vision in, you know, the six that you kind of talked about, how might you connect vision to mindfulness and present moment focus? Okay. Well, so for each of the topics, there's like a couple different stages, right? Like just like with the emotions I described. So with vision, there is, remember those cartoons that they used to have in a newspaper where pick out the differences. Do you remember those? Of course. So, so we start there. It's like you have 45 seconds to find as many things that are different as possible. Right? So how focused are you and what are you looking at?

Right? And then there's the Stroop test. Right? How well can you see, recognize, understand? You could do that. Then we go outside and play I can see. Right? You know?

So pick out different things in the environment and they have to be able to see it. Then we do a quiet one where it is, you have to find 10 things that you can see that's different than everybody else. So increasing their awareness of what they can see before making that expert vision, which is focusing on the little things that you need to see.

And then we get to, when you're on the court, being able to focus in on the ball, being able to focus just on your court, being able to focus just on your court, being able to focus on just your opponent, maybe the position of their hips or the position of their shoulders. So going from a wide brush of what do I see first, because we go through this life,

they walk from court to court, they walk from changing room to gym, from mental to the court, without seeing anything. So increasing that awareness first, like, wow, I didn't even notice that. Then we bring it into what in that moment is important. Yeah, that's awesome. And how do you see that, just mindfulness in general,

how do you see that play out in terms of performance? Do you see them, like, what do you see the benefits? Like, you know, firsthand, when you teach them these things, what do you see them do? I think for me, the goal is, and I've seen it like you know firsthand when you teach them these things what do you see them do i think for me the goal is and and i've seen it you know splashes of it because we're still you know working through it is the the awareness right so it's being able to make the adjustments being able to self-coach because if you're aware and you're okay with it, then you're not going to judge it and then you can make a change. So that's like the end goal. So right now, all I want is them to say, oh, you know what? I felt this and this is what it meant. That's where

we are right now. I saw this and this is what it meant. Like I knew the ball was going to go there. Or I said this to myself and this is what it made me feel. So just that first step of awareness and being okay with it, recognizing it and then making those changes. Because once you have the awareness, then it's just a process of elimination as to what's important. And you know, the nonjudgmental part, I think about mindfulness can be really difficult for some people.

It can be difficult for me people yeah right and I know this kind of content do you have any ideas or strategies tips for those who are listening you know to work on the acceptance part and not the judging kind of what's going on judging your thoughts well with the acceptance one um I'm working on this too as well. I've started working on it with a couple of the older players that's gone past some of the awareness stuff. So they're now at the plate,

okay, so what do I do with this? And it's really funny. There's a video from Halfify I found on YouTube and there is a Native American tradition where there's two wolves that exist within. There's a full, jealous, angry wolf, compassionate, happy, peaceful wolf. So kind of like your conscience. So the positive, and one is telling you what not to do, what you shouldn't be doing, and

one's telling you what you really should reason is a really good idea to eat those vegetables the other one's like no cupcakes all the time so we have these two wolves we have these two personalities that's within us all the time and in this tradition it explains that the the wolf that's going to be in control is the one you feed now feeding is who you give attention to feeding is what you focus on. Feeding is the one you give into every single time. Now, if you try to not be angry or be fearful or be envious or be jealous and you focus your energy on that, all it does is get bigger. All it does is take control.

So the part with the acceptance part, this is the story I tell them here, is that it's okay to be nervous. It's okay to be angry. It's okay as long as you don't focus on it. You know, identify that this is what you feel and then focus on what you want. You know, so when they're out on the court, a player was having her individual lesson out on the court this morning and she kept making errors. And the coach is like, you look like you're getting frustrated. Just stop getting frustrated. And, and, you know, I shouted over to them. It's like, you know, it's okay to be frustrated, right? It's okay. As long as you focus on what the instruction is, right? So the coach gave her an instruction after that. So then it's able to sort of reinforce that whole message that yes, frustrated you're making errors that's unacceptable right however it's okay to do that as long as you don't

internalize it as long as you don't judge yourself because if you think about it being nervous is a judgment because it's the same physical X the same physical experience as being excited but why is it different because we judge being nervous as something that's bad we don't judge being excited. But why is it different? Because we judge being nervous as something that's bad. And we don't judge being excited as something that's bad. Same thing with anger, same thing with fear, same thing with excitement, same thing with happy. It's that we put a judgment on these emotions. So allowing ourselves to be okay with whatever it is, but what do we want in that moment is it's where, where that nonjudgmental part starts.

So you'd encourage people to turn their attention to what they want instead of what they don't want and, and avoid judging, accepting what's happening. Right. Yeah. Because as soon as, because what they tend to do is they're like, oh my God, I'm so nervous. And then the judgment starts because the, the, the nervous part, that's part of our society, right? That's a cultural definition. So it's really difficult to break that one. So saying that you're nervous is one part of it. But then being nervous is where the judgment starts.

Because then you're like, why do I feel this way? I should beat that girl. I'm so much better. Those are judgments, right? And then like, what makes you think that you deserve a win? That's not how this works, right? And then like, what makes you think that you deserve a win? That's not how this works, right? So you want to be able to work for your win. What's important now, right?

We've heard that, W-I-N, what's important now. So as soon as you think about it, that winning is your right, know that it's not, it's never. That's probably also a hard thing to break just because I think that winning and outcome focus is so part of our culture you know you turn on ESPN and that's what you're going to see even when you know you watch a tennis match they're going to be talking about who's winning and the score yeah yeah yeah and it's definitely a hard thing to get away from because it's the

only measurable thing right and that's the the other thing with sports psychology and performance psychology is that it's not really measurable. You know, the athlete can feel better. The athlete can think that they're doing better. The athlete could make better choices, but it's not as measurable. You know, you see that they can lift more. You see that they could put more balls in the court. You see that, but you don't see, you know, the, some of the mental and psychological skills in play that sort of facilitate some of the other gains. So that's, so it's a little bit more difficult. And how do you, how do you sell what you do? Cause you're right. It is kind of difficult to, to be able to say like, you know, that it's less measurable than physical training. So yeah, yeah.

Well, I try to use the other training as my selling point. I'm like, you can put more balls down the line because you can focus better. And you can focus better because you did five minutes of meditation without just getting distracted. I say you can lift five pounds more or no, no, no. Let's try this one first. You gained five pounds of muscle, right? Because you were able to eat more because you paid attention to the nutritional counseling because you paid attention to being able to make better decisions. So your

decision-making was better. And that is why you gained the pounds. And, and that's how, you know, you just got to link, link, link, link, link until you see where it sort of all comes together. Well, let's go back to kind of what you're saying about your three layers and the top layer of breathing. Tell us a little bit about that and maybe you can share with us a specific way that you might teach that because I know that, you know, those people who are listening can use it in their own lives or maybe teach other people. So breathing is actually the last one at the bottom and that's the bottom yeah at the bottom so it's the most basic one right because it's the one that it's easiest to fix nothing well it's the easiest to fix it's something you

can see a little bit better like you can see when you inhale you can see when you exhale it's something you can tangibly sort of address um so that's why that's at the bottom so if they're really distracted or they're um they've had a lot's at the bottom. So if they're really distracted or they've had a lot of other stuff going on, or they're just not in the moment, then the breathing is where I would start instead of going to be open-minded because it's a little bit difficult to make that stretch. Got it. So with breathing exercises, they get a kick out of this because they laugh every time now. I always start it off the same way. It's like, they usually have a book and they have a book in the group with me every time. So it's like, put the books down in front of you, sit up in your seat. That means

your butt is between the top and the bottom cushion. And that's how I started. As soon as I started out, they're like, oh man, you know, we're going to get started. So I always try to get them to sit in an upright posture. We practice it with a slouch posture. I'm like, sit however you want. Go right, go for it. And then take a couple of deep breaths. Oh, I can't.

This is uncomfortable. Okay, well then let's sit up then. You chose that. So to get in the right posture is the first thing. And then I try to ask them to look down or close, whichever makes them feel more comfortable. Then I ask them to not distract the person next to them and the person next to them will not distract them. So sort of putting that accountability now into the room. So with the breathing part though, so after all of that stage is set, then we get into the nitty gritty of it. So ask them to, I say, 30 seconds and just breathe.

What does your natural breath feel like? Not making any changes to it, not adjusting it, not changing it. Don't try to deepen it. Don't try to make it shallow. Just how is your breathing right now? Just recognize it so that the awareness comes in again. So are you breathing through your nose or are you breathing through your mouth? I'm not here to tell you what's right or wrong. I'm not here to judge what you're doing. When you breathe in, do you go into your chest or do you go into your stomach? Again, I'm not here to judge. You can breathe however you feel comfortable. This is your natural breath. You're in control. So after about 30 seconds of that, then I ask them to challenge the breath. So by doing that, I'm like, hold it for an extra second on the inhale and hold it for an extra second on the exhale.

This is me teaching them how to do a deep breath. Right. So a little bit more on the inhale and a little bit more on the exhale. After about 10 seconds of that, it's like, give me two seconds more on the inhale, two seconds more on the exhale. And if I see them struggling, then I slow down and I don't go too much higher and I don't go too much lower. And then I ask them to take control of the breath and then hold it at the top of the breath and then hold it at the bottom of the breath. When you inhale and you hold at the top, it allows your lungs to take as much oxygen and all the good stuff from the breath.

When you hold it at the bottom, it gives you a sense of stillness. This is where the magic happens. The stillness is where the magic happens. So then I take them through those three paces and then the final 45 seconds, I'm like, just breathe. What feels comfortable now? What's, is it deeper? Is it not as deep?

Are you congested? Do you feel any tension in your shoulders or in your core, which is where you might feel it if you're breathing with a little bit of force. So paying attention to that. And we go through those things, 45 seconds each section, and then we're done. And then they're like, oh, that was so relaxing. I'm like, all I asked you to do was breathe. Nothing else. So that's the pace I take them through. And then after we've done that a couple of times, if we've done it consistently, then we're out of the courts. They're doing fitness, right? They run a sprint, and they stop, and I'm like,

what's your natural breath right now? You have five seconds. Make that breath a little bit deeper, one extra second, and then hold it a little bit, and then run a sprint again. So it teaches them how to quickly slow the breath down, how to quickly slow the heart rate down, how to quickly calm the mind down, and then they're ready to go again. So that's something that I practice even right before I have a big conversation or a meeting or presentation. I'm just like, I'm good because I've done all the work already, right? I've already recognized, I've recognized, okay, hey, my heart rate is elevated because of this I let me hold it a little bit right

before and then take a nice solid deep breath after and then you're instantly there where you need to be but it takes practice to get there though right you've got to go through the paces of the four stages a couple times before you can reduce the amount of time you need in each section. Because I think I read somewhere that it takes about six to 15 seconds to drop your heart rate, about 10 to 15 points, somewhere along there. I can't recall exactly where I read that, so I probably shouldn't say that out loud. However, that's what I've read somewhere.

So I tell them that and I'm like, if you can give me a good 10 to 15 seconds of deep breathing after the point, then I'm happy, you know, because I know you're practicing. And then soon it's not going to take that long. Absolutely. And then they can stay while they're playing. They can stay in the present more often because they've practiced it. Right. And all I'm asking you to do is be present, right? What does your breath feel like? Challenge it a little bit. What does that feel like? You know, make it a little bit more difficult for yourself. What does that feel like? Be comfortable there, right? Be okay that it's not easy and then be natural again and see

what's different. So what are the actual four steps that you're talking about? So I was thinking about it as I was following you, but how would you clarify that for us? Okay, so the first step would be natural, right? So just basic awareness of what your breath is. The second step is change. Change or challenge. You can use both words, the same thing, which is given an extra second on the inhale, an extra second on the exhale. So for experienced deep breathers, you might want to do two or three or do a three or five, do a four or four. However, it is whatever you've practiced before. And then in the third stage, you're challenging or changing it again by holding it at the top of the breath and then holding it at the bottom of the breath.

And then the fourth stage, you're going back to natural. At some point though, the natural, the second natural is going to be deeper than the first natural, but recognizing that change is where there's more awareness. Absolutely. Yeah. So it's a natural challenge, change, natural. And what do you typically see when you teach athletes this, you know, just the breathing and being aware of the breathing and then deepening their breathing? What do you think are the outcomes? Well, a lot of them, that one is like the easiest thing for them to take out into the court. And the more things I give them to use out of the court, they're ecstatic about it because then, oh, this is real. You know, this makes sense. That's worse. I didn't know what this generation, if it makes sense, then it's great.

So they understand it, you know, if it's's tangible so what I see more is that they're able to recover better after points they're able to think clearer in the changeover they have three minutes well not three minutes they have like 90 seconds and they're able to sort of slow their breath down and make better choices make better decisions as what is they need to do. When it is they're going, they're changing courts, so they're going and then they have like about three minutes when they're changing courts,

then that walk is a little bit more mindful, right? So they're a little bit more aware of what did I do in that last match and with the match that I'm going to go play now, what do I need to do next? So that's one of the biggest things that you see. And then sometimes it gets a little out of control. Sometimes, you know, somebody might hyperventilate or something, and then I have to get a little bit more hands on with that sort of process. It's when they

panic a little bit through it and then helping them learn that this is okay as well, you know, so. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, do you have another specific intervention that you might use with athletes that you can think of? Well, outside of the breathing one, I would say we heard of the performance wheel. Oh, of course. Yeah. So there's a wheel where you might separate it into different areas, slices. Yeah. And then you have them rate how they would assess themselves on that. On the scale. Yeah. Okay.

So I use the performance wheel really a lot often. So with that one, what I ask them to do is identify their favorite player first. Right. And an athlete that they look up to. And then what are the things that you look up to them for? And those are the things I put on the wheel. Right? So it's identifying this is what you want to be,

and then this is where you are. So instead of it becoming a self-judgment, it's a little bit more external. And then that makes it a little bit easier to swallow. It was like, oh, you know, Rafa does this, and I'm about a four here, so I just have a little bit easier to swallow. It was like, oh, you know, Rafa does this, and I'm about a four here, so I just have a little bit more work to do to get there. Versus if I put I don't move well,

or my movement or my footwork, then they're instantly going to judge themselves lower versus it's Rafa's footwork. So, you know, I can do that. Because they see it on television, so it looks a lot easier. It looks a lot easier when they watch it on television. So that's one thing that I tend to use a lot. That's excellent.

The performance wheel for sure. And what I can do is I can put some resources on the website. So cindracampoff.com slash Vernice. And then I can give some like a little bit more details about the performance wheel if people's interested in learning more about that specific intervention that'd be great and you can use that for a bunch of different things yeah any other ways yeah is there any other ways that you use it or that you're thinking about how people see yeah because i know the way it is you have like a mission for the group let's say the group creates um eight things that they want to get better at. So if you have a small group session, then that works that way. And they rate themselves on that wheel at the beginning of every class or at the end of every class. And then I keep that, you know, so that's

one other way of using it. So it becomes more of a group think, so a shared mental model of what the group wants to get better at or the group wants to achieve. Usually in the group, it's the same group that trains together, that does fitness together and everything. So they're able to keep each other accountable. Like, hey, we really want to get higher on this score. So, you know, who's struggling? And then that's another way of using it as well. Excellent. Having them take more control over the process. Excellent. Excellent. So Vernice, I have a few other questions for you.

So let's talk a little bit about yourself as a high performer, someone who is trying to be their best moment to moment. So tell us about a time that you failed that didn't go so well, what you learned from it. And of course, that I'm asking you about it is to promote kind of this growth mindset approach that everybody fails and also for the listeners to connect with you. And, you know, they might be thinking, wow, Dr. Bernice has this amazing job working with these great athletes, but I'm sure, you know, it didn't go perfectly on your way to get there. Tell us the story if you could.

I don't know. I don't, I don't mean to, to sound cheesy, but I think I, I think I fail a little bit every day because I think if I didn't mean to sound cheesy, but I think I fail a little bit every day. Because I think if I didn't, then there would be nothing to do, I suppose, right? So, like, as you're asking me this question, I'm thinking, geez, five minutes ago, like, I didn't think I said that exactly the way I wanted to. So, you know, like, I think I mixed that up a little bit or something like that. But I think with me, it's with failing, it's just like recognizing my humanity, right? Recognizing that I'm not, I'm not perfect. And I'm not going to be perfect. Because I mean, it's not the human condition to be perfect, even though we might want to think that.

So with me, it's like every content, I'm one of those people that at the end of a day, I sit down and I redo every conversation and I redo every workshop and I rewrite every email and everything like that in my mind. And that's exhausting. However, what i've learned is that if every time i do something like that or i do something that's important i've got to be okay the same thing i'm teaching teaching them i've got to be okay with what i just said and press it you know i've got to be okay with what i just said and walk away i've got to be okay with the workshop and do it you know and then at the end be like okay so what would you have, and then at the end be like, okay, so what would you have done differently? Or at the end of a conversation, now I ask,

tell me what I just said to you. So that I know that we're on the same page, you know, I follow up after an email, you know, just to check and see to make sure that what I'm communicating is what I want to communicate and how I communicate it is something that was received well so I think so so for me I feel like every day is like a chock full of little little itsy bitsy bumps in the road and just being okay that there will be and being okay that it's not going to be completely perfect is it's the way to go so so I've got a laundry list if you want me to keep going I've got a laundry list of little things that I think I could have probably done better or or or not you know so yeah and what I'm hearing Dr. Vernice is just a really mindful approach to failure like no judgment and acceptance that nobody's perfect

yeah and then I think that's right so like I said before is that when I when I cover topics or we work on anything, I try to do it with them. So that way I'm living that experience and I'm more attuned to the challenge of it. And then, you know, sort of when I feel myself getting better, then I feel like I'm doing the right thing. Yeah. You know, so it's a constant process, a constant progress. And that's what I like about it. That's excellent. Dr. Bernice, if you had a book or a resource to recommend to the audience, what would it be? And why would

you choose that? Well, I think one book that was recommended to me, actually, that I've recommended recently is Generation IY, Tim Elmore, right? I'm sure a lot of people have heard about it. And I love that book because, you know, we're working with a younger generation, right? And I think a lot of the consultants coming up, they're going to be working with a younger generation. And I think this book not only identifies the differences in a generation,

but it shows us where we can change to make those, to be helpful, because it's not enough to sit back and say, oh, the generation is different. They've changed. Their priorities are all screwed up, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's one thing to say that, but it's not enough, right? Because how are we going to make the difference to sort of show them where, not show them where's the right path, because we don't even know if all, because they were saying the same thing about us. Let's not make any bones about it. My grandmother was definitely saying the same thing about me

when I was growing up. So it's about recognizing that you can be part of the change, right? That you are part of the solution. So yes, there might be a lot of things that aren't the best, but there's a lot of positives, a lot of things that we can learn from the generation as well. Nice. Nice. Nice.

Awesome. And what final advice do you have for those high performers who are listening? So those people who are working to be their best moment to moment, they might be coaches, athletes, business leaders, consultants. What do you think?

Final message. Final message. Oh, it sounds so morose. Let's see. I think you said coaches, parents, athletes, right? I would say internalizing. Try to avoid internalizing.

I think we go through our days and we do things really well and we don't do things as well. And we tend to internalize and make that part of our schema, right? As a part of who we are. And I think that's like a huge thing that sort of keeps us from moving forward as fast as we could because we keep using these experiences and internalizing them into part of who we are. And then that keeps us from doing something different the next time.

It allows us to judge ourselves or say that's a bad thing or that's a great thing or see somebody else doing something and judging how that was done well or how that wasn't done as well. And that keeps us from seeing the thing, the conversation, the exercise, the activity, the performance for what it was. You know, so for a parent watching a kid do her homework or his homework, you know, it's just like not being like, OK, because he can't focus, it doesn't mean that I'm a bad parent. Right. When it is the coaches on the court and they can't put two balls on the court because they're distracted at these. They're not putting two balls on the court because you're a bad coach.

Right. The athlete that's having trouble understanding the instruction. You're not understanding the instruction because you're stupid, because you're a bad athlete, right? You've got to recognize that these things happen and not internalize it. Like be, okay, yeah, I don't understand. Yeah, I'm having trouble explaining what I want. Or yes, I need to try to figure out how to help them focus. But that doesn't mean you are a bad parent, coach or athlete. So I think that's one thing that I would say for sure

is to try to avoid internalizing experiences and judging those experiences. It's yourself. Excellent advice. So Dr. Maria. Yeah, good job. Tell us how we can connect with you if we'd like. So tell us about some social media links or where,

where can we find more information? I'm on Twitter at Denise Richards. So I post a little bit of some silly stuff and a lot of performance stuff as well. I'm on Twitter, on Instagram, most often at VR performance consulting. So it's a pretty long one, but if you go, if you just type in hashtag VRPC, I will come up and that's the easiest way to reach the Instagram. And I post almost every day. Right now we're doing a mindfulness series. So we're on the second part

of it. So going through a lot of the things that we're working on at the academy, you can get an idea. You see some videos of the kids um doing their thing um you see some pictures of me some some fun stuff as well and some exercise and activities that we do as well as some motivational tips um and then there's also a website um www.vrperformanceconsulting.com there's a blog on there and it also shows you some of the work that i'm doing and it's also linked to the instagram so you have sort of all the information in one spot. Awesome. Awesome. And I'll make sure that I link those to the show notes page. So you can head over to cindracampoff.com slash Vernice. And, you know, I just want to thank you so much for taking your time out of your busy schedule to share with us

your advice and strategies, just to get inside your life a little bit. And I just want to thank you so much for everything you've done to the, for the field and for the athletes that you work with. Thank you. There's, there's a few things that really stood out to me that I am taking away from, from your talk. And so I like that you said, you know, that your goal is really to help them compete, to be the best that they can be and being, you know, doing 100% of what they can in that moment. I think that's a really awesome way to kind of describe what you do. And I loved our discussion about the three areas that, you know, are most foundational to your work, the growth mindset, present moment focus, and then the awesome breathing exercise

that you gave to us today. So I just want to thank you so much, Dr. Bernice, for taking your time and your energy to be with us. No problem. It was a pleasure. I really enjoyed it too. You know, saying these things is also cathartic for me. I'm like, oh, I'm going to write that down too. Awesome. Thank you so much. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset.

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