High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 113: Finding Your Inner Runner with Jason Karp, Ph.D., Author, Coach and Entrepreneur

Episode Date: June 10, 2017

A runner since age 11, Dr. Jason Karp is one of America’s foremost running experts, entrepreneur, and creator of the Revo2lution Running certification. He owns Run-Fit, LLC, the premier provider of innovative running and fitness services. A prolific writer, Jason is the author of eight books including: The Inner Runner, Run Your Fat Off, 14-Minute Metabolic Workouts, Running a Marathon For Dummies, Running for Women, and 101 Winning Racing Strategies for Runners. As a private coach, he has helped many runners meet their potential, ranging from a first-time race participant to an Olympic Trials qualifier. A competitive runner since sixth grade, Dr. Karp is a nationally-certified running coach through USA Track & Field, has been sponsored by PowerBar and Brooks. Jason discusses in this interview: Why we run How running through discomfort is a transferable skill to life The changes in our body after a run How effort can become effortless How running can help us gain self-acceptance Get a description and summary at cindrakamphoff.com/jasonkarp.

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. What's up, high performers? Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. I'm grateful that you're here, ready to listen to an interview with Dr. Jason Karp. Now, the goal of these interviews is to learn from the world's best leaders, athletes, coaches, and consultants all about the topic of mindset to help us reach our potential or be high performers

in our field or sport. Now today I'm going to start with an iTunes review. And this iTunes review is a five-star review from Dr. Mark D. And he said this, Dr. Kampoff brings a wide variety of topics to the show, along with relevant research behind the power of having the right mindset and how to apply it to help you perform at your best. Excellent work. Hey, Dr. Mark D., thank you so much for heading over to iTunes, leaving that rating and the comment. So appreciated. A few episodes ago, I told you about my goal of doubling the downloads of this podcast

in 100 days. And guess what? It's working. And so I wrote it down. I tracked it. And you know, one of the reasons I wanted to double the downloads is because these interviews are gems. And I'm wondering if you could help me spread the word to help more people reach their potential by using their mindset. So if you could tweet about the podcast or perhaps post it on social media,

maybe today's episode or your favorite episode, or you could head over to iTunes and provide a rating and comment like Dr. Mark D did, or you could tell the friend about the podcast. That would be incredible. So today's episode is episode 113 with Dr. Jason Karp. Now Jason has been running since the age of 11. He's also one of America's foremost running experts. He's an entrepreneur and creator of the Revolution Running Certification.

He owns RunFit, the premier provider of innovative running and fitness services. He's also a writer. He's written eight books. And in today's interview, we talk about his newest book, The Inner Runner. Now, as a private coach, he's helped many runners meet their potential, ranging from first-time race participants to an Olympic trials qualifier. He's also a competitive runner himself. He's been sponsored by Power Bar and Brooks. Now, we talk about a lot of different things in this interview. We talk specifically about running for a while and why we love to run, why actually running through discomfort is a

transferable skill to life. And that's an interesting discussion. And then the changes of our body after we go for a run. Now, we talk about towards the middle and the end of this interview about how running can help us gain self-acceptance. And then we talk about the importance of finding your passion and following it. Now, what's interesting is I've been a runner for quite a while. I ran in college and I ran 15 marathons. But this year I ran my 15th marathon, the Boston Marathon in April. And it's interesting because after the race, I didn't have another goal. I didn't have another race to run. And perhaps it's because I have a book coming out August 1 and have this podcast.

I don't know. I've been trying to figure it out. Why do I not have another race planned? My motivation for running has been a lot lower than typical. I haven't ran for a month. And guess what? After this interview, I went out and ran. The way he talks about running is motivating.

And so I think that you're going to see from this interview that your motivation to exercise and do the things that are uncomfortable will increase. So without further ado, let's bring on Jason. So Jason, I'm excited to have you here today on the High Performance Mindset. Welcome. Thank you very much for having me. I'm looking forward to talking to you about your book, The Inner Runner, running to a more successful, creative, and confident you. And just to kind of get us started, Jason, tell us a little bit about your passion and what you do right now. Well, it all started with a race once around the track in sixth grade. When I ran track in middle school, I fell in love with the sport and the science of athletic performance.

And so I knew from a young age what field I wanted to pursue. So I was very particular about where I went to school to study what I wanted to study. And it grew from there. It started with the coaching because I knew I wanted to train other runners. And then I got more into the writing and the development of a certification program that I've been working on the last couple of years for the fitness industry all about running. So it's taken a lot of different forms over the years, but running has always been at the center of it all.

Yeah, and why running to you? What do you get from it, and why did you choose this? Well, I mean, I'm a little biased when I say this, but running really is the world's best exercise. It's accessible to every single person in the world at any time of the year. Anybody can walk outside the front door and go for a run. It's an extremely great way to meditate and be at one with yourself and get away from everything and everyone else. And it's very introspective.

And you learn a lot about yourself through running. You learn how to deal with discomfort, which is very much like life. The lessons that you learn from running are very transferable to the rest of your life. So there's something unique about running that no other form of exercise seems to have. And as you study running, what do you see the difference is? Why is it that we can apply all these different life lessons? And what is it about running that is different than other sports or other physical activity? Well, I think there's a few things. One is that it really is pure because

it's just your body. There's no implements, there's no balls, there's no rackets, there's no other equipment that is necessary. It is pure as it gets. You want to be a better runner, you have to affect aspects of your own physiology and improve those aspects to become a better runner. And then I think the other part of it, the less physical part of it is why it draws so many people is because of the challenge of it, that it's an easy metaphor for life. It tests our ability to endure and that is very specific to who we are as human beings our ability to endure and so it's very easy to choose a long race like you know the half marathon and marathon are so popular in the world right now

because people see that as a test of their endurance. People want to go longer and longer and longer because it is that metaphor for life to see how far humans can endure. And tell us how you apply that to our everyday life in terms of endurance. I'm thinking about how it relates to our ability to finish a project that we're working on or complete something,

complete a goal that we're really working towards. What other applications can you make? Right, exactly that. I mean, everybody has heard of the phrase, life is a marathon, not a sprint. And so it's exactly that, that you can take the lessons from running that ability to endure

to anything that you're working on or any difficult times that you're experiencing in your life. When you're caring for a sick loved one or something like that, anytime something're experiencing in your life when you're caring for a loved one or something like that anytime something is difficult in your life or you've got a big project to undertake you know the just the different phases of life and the different issues and problems that we have during those phases you know it's an easy metaphor from running to the rest of your life to take those lessons learning how to deal with discomfort and understanding that there are going to be times in life that are going to be

uncomfortable. But if you can endure those times, then you're going to be more successful at the other end of it. Absolutely. I completely agree. I think running has helped me do that as well, just endure and also learn to deal with that discomfort. When you apply it to our lives, what are kind of the discomfort that you see people just having to deal with? Maybe they aren't runners. A lot of it is family, you know, and parents dealing with their children and, you know, children inevitably get themselves into trouble and that causes a lot of stress and anxiety for the parents. So that's one perfect example of how to handle those difficult situations with your family.

You know, I dealt with that myself with my aging mother. And, you know, the very end of her life was very difficult for her as well as for my twin brother and I. And especially seeing her in the hospital the last two weeks of her life. I would go outside and run every day

before I would go to the hospital to see her so that I could gather the strength to be there for her because I knew that she was going through a very difficult time. And so to be able to endure that very stressful situation, knowing that I was going to lose my mother, you know, running gave me the strength to handle that and to face it head on rather than be scared of the outcome. That's an excellent application. So, Jason, fill us in the blanks a little bit. So, you know, you kind of started talking about your passion. And when you first started racing to now you're writing, you know, you just wrote this book, The Inner Runner.

Fill us in the blanks in terms of what is, you know, briefly tell us about your career and how you've gotten to where you are. So I went to school for a very long time. Like I said before, I chose my schools very carefully. I spent 13 years in college. My family thought I was crazy. But I got done with school. I did take a different route than other PhDs take. You know, as you know, most PhDs go into academia and that's what you're trained to do. You're trained to be a professor and a researcher. And so everyone I went to school with, they all got faculty jobs

at universities around the country. And even though I love teaching very much, I wanted to be more entrepreneurial. And so I moved out to Southern California and San Diego. I didn't know a single person. And I had already been coaching runners privately and writing for mags while I was in school. So I was already generating income and doing some things I wanted to do. And so when I moved out to San Diego,

I did more of that. I started coaching more, I started writing more, and then I got into the book writing. And it just grew from there. Two and a half years ago, I decided to create my own certification program on running for the fitness industry because the fitness industry was lacking education in that area and so uh and i speak i get my my teaching kick off of the speaking that i do both with the certification program and speaking at fitness industry conferences and track and field coaching conferences so i still get to do a lot of public speaking, which I absolutely love. But it's been very empowering to create this business for myself and just come up with my own ideas

and to pursue those ideas. And I recognize I took a different path than what most PhDs take. That took a lot of courage because you're right that we're taught to go towards this academic route, which isn't always fitting for everyone. Right, yeah, exactly. And that's what you're right that we're taught to go towards this academic route, which isn't always fitting for everyone. Right. Yeah, exactly.

And that's what you're trained to do. You know, you take a lot of statistics classes when you get a PhD because they train you to do research. So, Jason, you know, I'm thinking about how your why had to be really strong in terms of just choosing a different path than maybe your peers, you know. And we believe here at the High Performance Mindset, Jason, is that you're not only knowing your why, but really owning it. So kind of what that means is not only knowing why you do what you do,

but letting it inform you every day, you know, letting your why inform what you do. So tell us a little bit about why you're on this journey and why you chose this in terms of speaking and book writing and, you know, pursuing the of speaking and book writing and pursuing the certification? That's a very good question. And I've gotten to the point now where I don't even question why, because it's so deep inside of me. It really started as a kid. And I'm very lucky that unlike a lot of kids who have dreams and hopes of what they want to be when they grow up, most of them don't follow that path. And I was put on this yellow brick road when I was a kid and I never left the yellow brick

road I let that yellow brick road be the path that I followed the rest of my career and so my why goes really all the way back to when I started running when I was in sixth grade and how I just absolutely fell in love with athletic performance. Why does one runner run faster than another? Why can one long jumper jump farther than another long jumper? And I just became very, very interested in these questions as a kid. I was fascinated with baseball. Baseball is my second favorite sport.

And I was fascinated with how a baseball pitcher throws a curve ball. How does he get the ball to do that in the air to confuse the batter so that the batter strikes out? I find these things fascinating. I still do all these years later. And so my why is just this deep passion that I have for athletic performance and how to perfect one's physiology. Yeah, that's excellent.

So Jason, let's dive into your book, The Inner Runner, a little bit more specifically. The first thing that caught my attention as I was reading it was the many reasons that people decide to run. So what would you say in terms of what you found and what you applied in your writing? Why do we run and why are so many people kind of drawn to running? Yeah, that's a good question. Since you read the book, the opening, that the opening chapter of the book goes into that in great detail, looking at where we run from different people's perspectives.

So I'm a psychologist perspective, a sociologist perspective, a physiologist perspective, a philosophical perspective. There's many reasons why we choose to run. Some people run away from problems in their life. A lot of people get divorced and then they pick up running to deal with the issues surrounding their divorce. Some people run to find themselves. The ultra marathon is becoming very popular around the world right now because again,

it's this ability to endure is specific to who we are as human beings. We are very good aerobic enduring animals and people are very drawn to that. But some people just run because they want to find out how far they can go. The more practical reason why a lot of people run is because they recognize it's a great calorie burner and they want to lose weight. So a lot of people pick up running as a way to lose weight. So there's lots of, there's as many reasons to run as there are people.

Everyone's got their own personal reasons to run. That's what makes it so beautiful, is that there isn't just one reason to run. There's millions of reasons to run. That's what makes it so beautiful, that there isn't just one reason to run. There's millions of reasons to run. As I say in the book, it is the best expression of our physicality as human beings. Tell us a little bit more about that, Jason. Why would you say it's the best expression of our physiology? Because it's embedded in our DNA.

We had to run for survival. Our ancient ancestors ran to get food. And so we had to learn strategies of how to become better enduring runners so that we can literally chase other faster animals down to death. And so the way our bodies are designed, we evolve to run. The way we evaporate sweat to cool ourselves, that's unique to human beings. Other animals, other mammals can't sweat to cool themselves. And so we're very good at long endurance events because of our ability to thermoregulate

like other animals cannot. You know, one of the things that talked about in the book that I really enjoyed was you talked about confidence and actually, you know, the physiological changes that happened to us, you know, and things that you talked about related to confidence. You talked specifically about flow. Tell us a little bit about that from your perspective, you know, Czech Psych Mihaly's

application to flow. How do you apply that to your work with runners? Yeah, well, there's a lot of cognitive and psychological benefits to running. Everything from the feeling of accomplishment. That's why a lot of people want to run a marathon because it represents this huge accomplishment and the confidence that they gain from that accomplishment. That's why a lot of people want to run a marathon because it represents this huge accomplishment and the confidence that they gain from that accomplishment. The other is the literal changes in our brain that happen when we run. The increases in connections between neurons that help us to think more creatively and more positively. So there's lots of things going on in our brain and our mind. And certainly the physical aspects of running lead to people's confidence because you can't help but you can't separate the mind and the body. I mean, we are together in how we live our lives.

And so when people's bodies change, their mind changes too. They see the changes in their body. They know they're more fit. They see the changes in their muscles. They know they're more fit. They see the changes in their muscles and that makes them more confident. They walk into a room with their head held high, whereas people who are unfit, out of shape, overweight, they don't feel as confident because they tie their perception to what they look like. They perceive themselves the way they look. And so when you're physically fit, it also helps your

confidence and you carry yourself differently. You look at yourself differently. That's arguably one of the most important things in the world because what you think about yourself will influence how you interact with everybody else around you. Absolutely. You know, one of the things that I'm here at a conference where I'm speaking and as I introduce to other people, they know that I run and when they tell me that they run, I can tell just because the way that they interact with others, they're more positive and perhaps maybe even more confident in themselves just because of the experience of running, the applications of what you're talking about. Yeah, exactly. I mean,

running has a huge power to increase people's confidence. Now, what would you say to people who are like, you know, I don't know, Jason, Sindra, like this running thing isn't for me. What advice would you give to them? Tell them to give it a chance. A lot of people quit running when they first start because it's hard and people don't like things that are hard. And so that's where I tried to show them how this is a metaphor for life.

Life is hard. The things that you can learn about yourself through running, you can transfer over to the rest of your life. Don't give up just because it's hard the first time you do it. Maybe you mix walking and running for 30 or 45 minutes the first time you walk out the door. Then over time, as your body adapts, then you can run more and walk less. The human body has an incredible capacity for adaptation. The physiological and biochemical adaptations that we make are nothing short of miraculous. It's pretty cool the things that happen inside of our body. The real fitness happens on the inside, things that

you can't see. And so don't just give, I would recommend that people don't just give up right away, that you get to the point where the effort becomes effortless. And that takes time. Yeah. How long do you think that typically takes for runners? Well, when you're out of shape, it actually happens pretty quickly. You take someone who's really fit, it's harder to improve their fitness beyond that, because that takes even more time.

But the physiological changes happen from the very first time you run. There are already changes that are being made. You send the stimulus to your DNA to start making new protein that will ultimately make you fitter. So in a matter of weeks of daily running or even every other day running, people will notice big changes in their fitness and their endurance. I think that's a really good point, Jason, that when you start, it is hard and it's supposed to be hard. And that's a really good metaphor for life. You know, Jason, one of my favorite quotes in your book was that you were talking about self-acceptance and you said how, you know, running has always been your path to self-acceptance. Tell us a little bit about your journey into self-acceptance through running

and then how you can apply that to us. Yeah, that's very good. That's one of my favorite sections of the book as well, that most people want something in their lives that they can anchor to. For me, it's been running. No matter what stage I've been in my life or the changes that have been made, running has always been there. Running has always been the thing that I've turned to. And so it has helped me accept who I am and give me the hope for who I can

be. But that doesn't mean it has to be for everyone. So I also mentioned in the book, in that same area of the book, that to find of the book that, uh, find what gives you self acceptance, you know, whatever it is for that person, you know, and then, and then literally run with that for the rest of your life. Find that one anchor for you,

whatever that anchor is, whatever makes you feel whole, whatever makes you accept who you are and gives you hope for who you can be. Find out what that is and then follow that path for the rest of your entire life. And Jason, as people are listening, what other examples do you think, you know, that lead to people feeling kind of the self-acceptance that you talk about in this book? If it's not running, you know, what are some other examples of what it might be? Well, it could be any physical activity.

It could be cycling. It could be swimming. It could be any physical activity or it could be anything else. It could be a parent for a lot of people to be in a parent. You know, it could be a lot of roles. It could be their career. It could be whatever their interest is. It could be art.

It could be, you know, however people express themselves. For me, I've always expressed myself through running. That's always been my deep passion. But however people express themselves, you know, think about, you know, when people ask you as a kid, what do you want to be when you grow up? A lot of people lose that. Something gets lost in the years intervening between childhood and adulthood. And so I always ask people, well, what did you want to be as a kid? What are the things that you were interested in when you were a kid? And try to see if you can get back to those things, get back to those interests, because that's what fulfills

you. But people get caught up in the daily minutiae and they got to make money to make a living. And then they forget about all the things they wanted to do when they were a kid. It's a really good advice. I definitely see that happening to a lot of people where they lose the passion and purpose and really what drives them. They forget about what they're most passionate about or what they were passionate about. Right. Yeah.

I mean, we all have something that we're very, very interested in. And the trick, if there is a trick, is to find out how to make money doing what you're very interested in. You know, so as you were, you know, you reflect on writing the book, Jason, talked a little bit about the different sections. Why do we run the confident runs and kind of what happens to us as runners? Besides those sections, you know, is there a particular favorite part that you really enjoyed writing or, you know, that you know that's been really impactful for people who've

read it? Tom, there's a couple of things. One is the stories that I tell in the book of other people. So I frame each chapter of the book with a story of somebody who matches the theme of that chapter. So like the confidence runs, has someone's story the productive runs so the story the better runs they all have stories and so people love of course people love the stories because it becomes personable they can relate it to their own lives and so that i think is very powerful that people get to see what running has done for these other people and then the other section that i really like is talking about discomfort. And especially when you're racing or anytime you do a hard workout,

you're faced with a question. What am I going to do right now? Am I going to cut back from this intensity, make it a little bit easier so I can make it feel more comfortable? Or am I going to push through this discomfort to find out what's on the other side and become the person who I want to be? And that really, I think, is the best metaphor for life. And there's no other situation I have found that asks you that question. And you have to make the decision right now, when that person is starting to pass you in the race, what are you going to do when that person starts to pass you? Do you go with that person is starting to pass you in the race what are you going to do when that person starts to pass you do you go with that person even though you know it's going to be physically uncomfortable or do you let the person

pass you by and I think it could be a very revealing moment sometimes you finish your race knowing that you could have gone a little faster and you beat yourself up over it but that's okay because you always have another chance there's always going to be another race. And just like in life, opportunity doesn't knock once. It knocks many times throughout our lives. We always have another chance to try to become who we want to be. And what strategies do you suggest runners use to kind of push through that

when they are faced with the decision to either kind of give in to the discomfort or push through it and to keep going? What do you think helps runners do that? I think a lot of it is the training, you know, putting yourself through that discomfort on a very regular basis. That helps a lot for you to deal with it. And then, as I mentioned in the book, there are different kinds of runners and how they think about running and racing. There are dissociative runners who try to dissociate their minds from the discomfort, from the pain. And then there are associative runners, runners who focus on the pain itself, on the discomfort itself. And so you have to know what kind of runner you are, and then you take a different strategy based on on that whether you're associative or dissociative runner okay so do you think that one of those are better or do we should we figure out what type of runner we are meaning for an associative disassociative or do you think

yeah both but uh yeah the the good runners the research has looked at this issue and really good runners tend to be more of the associative type. They focus on the discomfort itself. They focus on their bodies and what their bodies are doing while they're running hard, while they're racing. And so that's really the path to becoming a better runner and becoming a better you is focusing on that discomfort and pushing yourself through and asking yourself when it becomes uncomfortable. Ask yourself, what am I going to do right now? You know, for these next few seconds or next few minutes, it's going to be uncomfortable. But if you try to change the gear and push through that, then you're going to be a lot more proud of yourself after the workout or after the race

is over. And you're going to learn about your ability to deal with that discomfort. Absolutely. And so I think about how this applies to life, Jason, you know, in sports ecology, we have a phrase called, you know, be comfortable being uncomfortable. And obviously, you know, you can be, you know, comfortable being uncomfortable in running and physical activity or in your sport. But I also think about in life, how we really have to choose, you know, our courage zone and not always our comfort zone zone because that's where we actually really grow and learn. Exactly. Yeah, that's a big area of psychology, as you know.

You know, one of the questions I have for you that I always ask everyone, Jason, on the high performance mindset is to tell us about a time that you failed and what you learned from it. And one of the reasons I wanted to ask you that is because I think failure can keep us in our comfort zone, right? It keeps us from not pushing through that discomfort. So just tell us about a time you failed and what we can learn from it. Well, there have been many times I failed, especially being an entrepreneur

and having my own business. You try a lot of marketing strategies, they don't work, and then you try to do something else. One big failure I had was when I was working on my own PhD and I actually failed my qualifying exams the first time in front of my committee and I was demoralized. And one of the things I learned from that was trying to figure out what it is that my

committee members wanted to know from me. What did they want to see? What competencies did they want to see from me so that I could show them what they wanted to see and then I could pass? So I went around to all my committee members and I asked them that. I asked them, what is it that you want to see from me? What do I have to prove to you? And that feedback they gave me directed my efforts. And so I studied it in a different way and it helped. It worked. But going into it the the first time because I didn't know exactly what it is that they were looking for I was kind of flying by the seat of my pants and I had failed yeah and what did you learn from that that we can apply to our lives so that you you know apply to your

life later yeah some of it is understanding what it takes to be successful what are the specific things that you need to do to be successful you know in terms of business you know what is it that the consumer wants you know in terms of school what does the teacher want i mean there's many applications you know even as children growing up with their parents what do the parents want what's going to make your parents happy you know how do you not get into trouble as a kid you know there's many applications for it in terms of how to be a more successful person. You need to find out what are the things that are going to lead to success. I think a lot of people spin their wheels and they end up in the same place that they started. And I like what you

did is you asked people that were sort of like the gatekeepers, right? You asked people who are more experienced than you. So, you know, I think about no matter when you're, perhaps when you're starting a new career or, you know, you just got a promotion, asking people what it takes to be successful so you're fully prepared or, you know, asking people who are already speaking in the speaking business, that's something that you want to get into or, you know, ask people if you want to, you know, if your dream is to be an All-American, what's it taking, what's it going to take to get there? And if you're already an All-American, you're asking somebody else, you know, that is further along in your journey. Right, exactly. You know, one of the things I wanted to ask you, Jason, you mentioned in your book how each of the chapters you have a story that you open with.

Could you tell us about a particular story, you know, that you shared with it in the book and then how we can apply it to our lives? Yeah, one great story was I was, some of the people in the book I didn't know before I wrote the book, I went and found them. And a couple of them I did know. And one of them who I knew was my academic advisor at the University of Calgary when I was working on my master's degree there. And this guy, he was at the top of his field in the area of biomechanics very well-known scientist all over the world and he's also a runner and he grew up in Switzerland and he found out at a very young age that he was quicker than all the other boys in his small village and he became quite good through all the years of school that he went to he was uh just shy of of being a very

elite runner he was quite good and i remember him telling me that i which i wrote a story in the book that he said that if it wasn't for being so good at this activity that really has no existential existence i mean running really is it's just Who cares? At the end of the day, who really cares? It's just running. But this mundane, specific activity, he found very exciting and he was very good at it. And he said that if it wasn't for that, he never would have had the confidence to leave home country, come to the US. He got his PhD at the University of Iowa in the US under another very top guy in biomechanics. He never would have become this world-class scientist. Now he's been on faculty at the University of Calgary for a long time.

A number of years ago, he won the top award in the field of biomechanics given out by the International Society of Biomechanics. Everyone in the world knows who this guy is because of his study on muscle mechanics. And he said none of that ever would have happened. If he wasn't so good at running, he would have stayed home in a small village in Switzerland and married some small town girl. And he would have had just some average mediocre life. But it was because of this one thing, it made him confident to make these big changes in his life and go pursue a PhD over in the United States and become this world class

scientist. And so I found that story fascinating because that can apply to everybody. Find out what it is you're good at and run with it and let that give you the confidence to try all these other things in your life. Wow. I love it, Jason. So find out what you're really good at and run with it. Yeah, that's always been my mantra. That's how I have charted my course and that's what I want for everybody else. I want them

to find their very deep passion and follow it to the end of the world. And, you know, my sense is, how do you follow what you're most passionate about? I think you've given us some golden nuggets today in terms of helping us think back to, you know, what's always given us energy? What do we want to be? Or, you know, what are we drawn to from our early age? What are other ways that you think that we can kind of move forward towards what we're really good at? It becomes a little bit difficult in our money-driven society because people sometimes get directed in another direction because you have to make money. And so people lose their interests. They don't cater to those interests because of the need to make a living.

But even if it is just done as a hobby rather than a moneymaker, because it is hard to make money in a lot of things like music and a lot of the arts, it is difficult. So I would still suggest that people go back

to what they had these interests and at least still pursue it, even if it's only on a hobby level, but get it all of who you are, still pursue it with the deep passion that you might've had when you were a kid. Excellent. Well, I have a couple of final questions for you, Jason. So if you could provide some advice, what would be your final advice for those people who are listening? So high performers performers people who want to really reach their potential well one of them is something we've already discussed the final deep passion and follow that to the end of the world because that's where you're going to get your strength from that's what's going to help you do everything

else in your life better when you have that anchor that thing that you can come to every single day for the rest of your life that's just going to make everything in your life better. So that's one piece of advice is to follow that deep passion, whatever it is. It's running great. If it's something else, that's good too. Good, good, good. And what are the ways that we can follow you on social media and learn more about the book?

All over social media is at Dr. Jason Karp, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter. And of course the books is on Amazon and Barnes and Noble and wherever else books are sold. And you can follow me on my through my website as well at run-fit.com. Excellent. Well, Jason, there's so many things that I got from this interview, I want to repeat a few back to you and the listeners. I know people just really appreciate when I kind of wrap it up this way. And I liked what you talked about related to how running is hard and how, you know, some people don't try it or quit really easily or early on in their running journey because

it's just hard, but that it's supposed to be difficult, that the discomfort is actually something that we should embrace and that how that really relates to life and how when we embrace the discomfort, it helps us grow and learn and be at our best. And then I also loved how you talked about, you know, find what we're good at and then run with it. So define your passion, follow that to the end of the world, you know, and sometimes we need to remind ourselves what we're most passionate about and, you know, what's given us energy even since we were young. And I also liked what you talked about related to confidence

and how running has been a way for you to feel self-acceptance or find self-acceptance and how you encourage us to find what does that for us. So I just wanna thank you so much for your time and your energy today, Jason. Oh, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you, Jason.

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