High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 115: Know Who You Are with Dr. Wendy Borlabi, Sport Psychologist with the Chicago Bulls & Founder of Borlabi Consulting

Episode Date: June 18, 2017

Dr. Wendy Borlabi is currently working with the Chicago Bulls and is founder of Borlabi Consulting, a performance psychology firm. She is an independent consultant with the National Basketball Association, and worked for the United States Olympic Committee (USOC) at their training center in San Diego for six years (two Winter Olympic and one Summer Olympic Games).  She co-founded Acumen Performance Group along with six current and ex-Navy SEALs, and spend five years at James Madison University where she began the sport psychology services for the student-athletes, coaches and athletic department. She received a doctorate in Clinical Psychology with a concentration in Sport Psychology and Exercise Psychology at Argosy University/Phoenix. In this interview, Wendy discusses: What distinguishes the elite from the super elite The psychological attributes of the world’s best athletes The mental skill she teaches all of the athletes she works with How self-awareness it like body odor (love it!) How she addresses barriers to mental training 7 ways to address anxiety Her recommendations for those interested in studying sport psychology or want to learn more about it Get a description and tweets/quotes at cindrakamphoff.com/wendy.

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome High Performers. ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome high performers. This is your host, Sindra Kampoff, and I call you a high performer because I know you are working to reach your greater potential and you're aware that your mind plays a key role in that. Now, the goal of these interviews is to learn from the world's best leaders, coaches, and consultants all about the topic of mindset

to help us reach our potential or be a high performer in our field or sport. Now welcome to today's episode 115 with the one and only Wendy Bollaby. Now first I'm going to head over to iTunes and read an iTunes review. This is from Rocking at Real Estate Rebel. And Rocking at Real Estate Rebel says, Be a high performer always. An excellent podcast that provides how-to information that's practical and how to become a top performer. This podcast can give you the mindset to bring you up to the next level and to the next level

and to the next level. This show is a must listen to for anyone who does not want to settle but instead seeks to achieve the most in their lives. Hey, thanks so much, Rocking at Real Estate Rebel. I really appreciate your comment and your rating over there on iTunes. And it's cool that it's clear, you know, that the podcast is really about teaching you how to, to improve your mindset. Now I shared with you a few, oh, six weeks ago that I wanted to, or we wanted to hear is double the downloads of this podcast in 100 days. These interviews are gems. So I'm wondering if you could help me spread the word. If you could do one of three things, that would be incredible.

You could post about the podcast on social media, perhaps tweet about it. You can tag me over there at mentally underscore strong. Perhaps you could post a podcast that you enjoyed or an episode you enjoyed or a quote from today's interview. You could also head over to iTunes like Rocking at Real Estate Rebel said or did and you could provide a comment or rating. I'll make sure to read it in the next interview or you could tell the friend about a podcast. That would be incredible and you could help us keep these interviews free and help us make the world a better place by helping people train their mind.

So today, on today's episode 115, I interview Wendy Bolibi. Now, Wendy is currently the sports psychologist for the Chicago Bulls. Yes, you heard that right, the Chicago Bulls. She's also the founder of Bolibi Consulting, a performance psychology firm. She's an independent consultant with the National Basketball Association, and she spent six years at the United States Olympic Committee at their training center in San Diego, where she was a sports psychologist for two Winter Olympics and one Summer Olympic Games. She's the co-founder of Acumen Performance Group with six current and ex-Navy SEALs.

And she spent five years at James Madison University, where she began the sports psychology services for student athletes, coaches, and the athletic department. She received her doctorate in clinical psychology with a concentration in sport and exercise psychology from Argosy University in Phoenix. There's many things that wendy and i talk about in this interview today i just want to give you a little bit of a snapshot we talk about what distinguishes the super elite from the elite and what the super elite do differently in their psychological attributes she talks about the most important mental skill and my favorite quote or a

discussion she talks about how that self-awareness is like body odor. And here's my favorite quote. She says, when you smell yourself, you're over the top. She talks about barriers that we experience implementing mental training, how to address anxiety. And she provides us with seven different tools or strategies. And then her recommendations for if you wanted to study sports psychology and how to learn more. So without further ado, you have the one and only today joining us, Wendy. Welcome, Wendy Bolivy to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. I am jacked that I'm sitting here with you ready to talk to you about what you do and your passion. So thank you so much for being on the podcast today. Thank you for having me. I'm pretty excited to be

here. I love that you do this and give us this opportunity to have this platform. So this is really good. Awesome. Well, you know, I know not everybody knows who you are, who's listening. So tell us a bit about your passion and what you do. Sure. So I am currently, I work for the Chicago Bulls. Prior to that, I worked at James Madison University. So I have my master's in sports psychology, and then my doctorate is in clinical psychology. And so I worked at James Madison University, part-time in athletics, part-time in the counseling center, working with athletes,

and started a sports psychology program there. I went from there. I was there for about five years, and then from there to the Olympics, because I was with the Olympics for two Winter, and went from there, I was there for about five years and then from there to the Olympics, cause I was with the Olympics for two winter Olympics and a summer Olympics, um, and did the same thing, sports psychology, um, Olympics except a little different than university. Um, and while I was at the Olympics, I started a company with, um, several Navy SEALs and since then have left that

company and gone out on my own. So I have my own consulting company, Ballby Consulting Firm, LLC, and moved to Chicago, and I've got an opportunity to work with the Chicago Bulls, and that's where I am currently. And so my passion, if you will, would definitely be about the mental aspect of sports. I love being able to help folks figure out what it is that they want to strive for, what their goals are, and help them achieve that. I think that that's really an honor, and it's pretty cool to be a part of. So I feel like I have a pretty blessed job. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, tell us just how you got interested in the field.

You know, was there anything or a particular moment that made you decide this is the career that you wanted to get into? Sure. So I actually got into sports psychology by happenstance. It wasn't, I never even heard of sports psychology before. And I had graduated undergraduate and was working for a, excuse me, a day treatment facility. And one of my coworkers was going to a sports site conference in New Orleans and she didn't want to go by herself. And she knew that I was an athlete. So she asked if I would go with her. So I went because it was a free weekend in New Orleans. I had no idea about sports psychology. I wasn't even trying to go to any conference events. I was just going to have a great weekend in New Orleans. And then about six months later, I started thinking about,

what does this sports psychology thing? And so I did a little investigating, and it seemed really interesting. And so I went to talk to folks at Georgia Southern. I was living in Atlanta at the time. I really liked the idea of what sports psychology was. And so I applied and got into the master's program. And as I say, it just kind of took off from there. I mean, I realized pretty early into the master's program. And as I say, it just kind of took off from there. I mean, I realized pretty early into my master's program

that this was definitely the job for me. There were a lot of things that we were doing that I had no effort. I wasn't even thinking about. I wasn't struggling with. It was just, as I say, part of my makeup. It's, you know, God gave these things to me. So I thought this is definitely a career.

I don't have to work at it, this is, this is a career that I want, and so I just, you know, just took off from there, and decided I wanted to get, you know, make myself more marketable, so I went and got my doctorate in clinical psych, and just, you know, trying to find every opportunity I could to work with athletes, and do the applied work, because that's exactly where I want to be. Yeah, well, Wendy, I can hear your passion in your voice and I can hear that, you know, this is, this is, it doesn't, isn't a job to you, right? Like it's a, it's a passion, not a job. So, you know, we believe here at the High Performance Mindset that knowing exactly why you do what you do and keeping that front and center is a really powerful motivator. So, you know, you know, why,

you know, what's your why in terms of when you stay motivated? Oh, that's super easy. I have twins that are four years old, a boy and a girl, and they are totally my why. They even pushed me to do things that I would be outside my comfort zone. I found that I have taken different opportunities or shows that Bob has presented to me and I've accepted things that I would normally not accept because they're outside my comfort zone. But I accepted because I, I never want to have a conversation with my daughter, which is a strong four-year-old already, but I never had a conversation with her saying she struggles with something and she didn't try because she was afraid, I don't want to have that conversation and say, yes, I was afraid as well. So I didn't try. So just having them has pushed me to explore a lot of different things that I would have almost said no to just because I want to be a really good role model for them.

And I want to, you know, I don't want to say do as I say, not as I do. I want to practice what I preach. So they're they're totally my why. Ah, that's good. And I like how you're taking risks, you know, in terms of doing things that you wouldn't normally do because of them. Yeah, you know, Wendy, I'm just looking at your bio. And as you describe it, you've had such an incredible opportunity to work with some of the world's best, you know, I'm thinking college, Olympic, maybe SEALs, now the Bulls. Tell us what you think separates those really world-class performers from others. What do you think separates them mentally? Wow, that's a really good question. I think there's probably a lot of things. I think in my experience, there is sacrifice. I think this separates, I don't know the elite should we say because they have to

sacrifice a lot to actually achieve what they want to achieve in their career and when I say sacrifice I mean they're sacrificing their their family time their a career that they may have just given up in another field to go in this direction, maybe sacrifice a way of life, especially with the Olympics. I mean, you don't get paid in the Olympics unless you win a gold medal, particularly if it's a one-off sport that people don't know about. You have to win the gold medal in order to get paid. So we're talking four years of no job, essentially, and you may have a family.

So you're having to make that sacrifice and it's mentally and physically in order to achieve that and so I think that's probably one of the big things is that they they know how to make a sacrifice I think another thing is that I've learned is that they if they haven't already they figure out quickly that they need to have balance in their life their life can't be a hundred percent their sport. I think it's something that we grew up thinking that you've got to eat, live and breathe basketball, baseball, whatever your sport is. But, you know, I like the,

I always like to refer back to the Williams sisters and when they got started, how people criticize them for having all these different interests, you know, and saying that they weren't, they should have been focused on tennis. The reason why they weren't number one, because they didn't play all these tennis tournaments to actually get the rankings, even though they were the better player, because they were busy doing other things. And here we are, how many years later, and they're still playing tennis. And, you know, a lot of people that are out of tennis,

tennis was their entire life, and now they're having another life. And I think, you know, I I think what the Williams sisters did proved that it was a great path that's showing that you can be focused and passionate about your sport. You can take time away from that sport and have another interest and still come back to that sport and be 100%. And that's exactly what they did. So being able to have balance in your life, I think are the things that they've learned how to do. Yeah, that's good. So sacrifice and then having balance, what do you think derives them, you know, in order to sacrifice and

perhaps at the Olympic level, not get paid, you know, and then just grind it out for four years, kind of, you know, one chance, what do you think really motivates Olympic athletes or even the pro athletes that you work with? It's definitely, it needs to be intrinsic. It's, it's a passion. There needs to be, there's something else there. Otherwise it's going to fall along the wayside, you know, so there, I think that they, they have to be passionate about what they're doing. And that passion needs to be intrinsic. A good example would be, there could be an athlete that may love the sport that they play, or they're trying to get a medal in, they may not be completely passionate about it, but they're passionate about achieving a certain level so they could support their family or even a certain level so they could support, give back

to mom or whatever the case may be. And that's what's driving them. And it's very intrinsic. It's still, they go, they continue to go back to that. But I found that, that definitely folks that if it's extrinsic, it, it doesn't, doesn't last as hard as the same, especially in Olympics. Again, it's four years of nothing and it could be eight years of nothing, depending on, again, you know, your sport and when your chances is to win so there's not a lot of Michael Phelps out there absolutely and do you see them just sort of giving in or giving up you know that they don't

they can't continue with their drive or the excitement if they're not intrinsically motivated yes there is I don't know if it's actually that they're giving up, but something starts to take over because it's not – you have to be intrinsically – in my belief, you've got to be intrinsically motivated in order to work out twice a day with no job, no money coming in. You're sacrificing your time with your family. You're sacrificing your time with your family. You're sacrificing your time with your friends. You know, you could be 25, 30 years old sharing an apartment with five other

people in order to, you know, in order to make this journey. So that's the kind of hard thing to do if there's only an extrinsic motivation. I think it only lasts so far, you know. And it's a sustained level of effort and a sustained level of sacrifice. It's not just one year. It's like what you said, four years, eight years, perhaps longer. Yes. You know, Wendy, one of the things that I did, first time I ever did this, where I wrote out, I told people on Twitter that I was going to be interviewing you and people submitted questions. And Matt Moore at Matt Moore 11 wanted me to ask you, you know, what challenges do you see working with at the NBA level?

And I know you, you know, you've done other things where you're an independence consultant with the NBA. So what do you see, you know, challenges at that level, the NBA level compared to other populations you've worked with, perhaps the Olympic level or, you know, at James Madison, the college level? Sure. I think that the, at the NBA level, I think I'd be the same for the NFL, in my opinion, and probably the NHL is that these are athletes that have been told that they're, they're the next person or the next,

you know, Michael Jordan or whatever, that they're, they're just so great for years. And so they've been pampered and people have been doing things for them for, you know, since high school and then in the college and then again in the MBA. I think that they, there's a lot that they really don't know about and a lot that they don't even know how to do. So that becomes a challenge because they expect that same kind of someone to take care of you again, you know, when you get here and that's not the case, you know, you're an adult now. And so you're needing to do that for yourself. And so there's that challenge in trying to get them to try to educate them on that piece. And I think there's also another challenge that is that they're so young here and they're coming in so young and there's things that they don't know, that they don't really

are aware of. And so there's a lot of education. I think I do on my part. I definitely did when I was working with the MBA consultant. There was a lot of education on things that I think we take for granted. A perfect example would be that telling them about how when you write a letter an email to someone that you need to address them by their their title you you don't write an email to to me asking me for a job saying hey Wendy or dear Wendy you write an email to me saying Dr. Bollaby blah blah blah blah which was something that was you know they don't really think about because they never learned that you actually need to address somebody by title. And we, and I even say, you don't have to call me Dr. Bollaby, you can call me Ms. Bollaby, but you still, if you've never met me, there needs to be some kind of level of respect of, you know,

of that. So I think it's just things like that. There's a lot of education, a lot of psycho ed. I think I did do more when I worked with the NBA then, I think with the Olympics and with James Madison. And, you know, what do you see in terms of the athletes who do very, very well at that level? What do they do differently in terms of, obviously they're talented, but, you know, what sort of like psychological makeup or characteristics do you see that differentiates those? When they're on, when they're focused on basketball, they are focused on basketball. I mean, like I said before, they have the downtime or they have the balance in their life, but when they come in to play, it's, it's all about, it's all about basketball. You know, again, with the examples, I like to give examples.

I love it. I know the listeners are loving it too. Example would be that, you know, I remember at a, one of our games, one of the players had was killing one of the rookies to go lift weights after the game. This is a player that had played like 42 minutes of the game and said, hey, let's go lift weights, a couple of guys to go lift weights. And one of the responses was, you know, I lifted before the game. And the player that played 42 minutes said, so did I. So he lifted before the game, played 42 minutes, and was getting ready to lift after the game and then we got someone that lifted before the game didn't play at all

and apparently had no energy to lift after the game and so um that's something like when when they're here they're they're on i mean he came to play he came to work out before he played the game and he's working out after he's going to leave and then be focused on his family but when he's here he's 150 percent in on what do i need to do to get better and pushing himself and so i think that's that's i think that's part of the success i think actually being able to handle the success too i think that's a lot that's a lot here in the nba you know being able to handle the success there's a lot of things going out there that are trying to um trap you and and you know get you in trouble so being able to handle the success there's a lot of things going out there that are trying to trap you and you know get you in trouble so being able to respond in a healthy way I think is good too. Absolutely and what about the people that struggle at that level is there anything in

particular like mentally that you see them struggling with you know I'm thinking about maybe distractions or pressure or, you know, just expectations that they aren't reaching and, you know, how that can be sort of like a mental road block. Sure, sure. One of the things that we did with at the MBA at the Combine and also at the Ricky Transition Campus, when we talked about money, we talked about how that can be, how your newfound money can affect you on the court. They like to say that, you know, you were ugly yesterday, but you're gorgeous today because you're worth $20 million. Right.

There's some things they're telling the guys, but it's, you know, what we're trying to educate them on is that even though you've just signed a contract for, let's say, $20 million, you need to put yourself on a budget. Actually, Oprah says this. She did that. You put yourself on a budget. So you only get, I don't know, $2,000 a week or two every two weeks, something like that. And that's what you live off of. So when people, family members call you for money, you can clearly say you don't have it because you really don't have it. You only get a certain amount of money and that's for you to live off of. The rest of it is not, you don't have access to it. So you can't just give them $5,000 or $300 or whatever. You can't do that because this is your money to live off of. And if you give it to them, then you can't pay your bills or you can't, you know, all that kind of stuff. And so they want to help them do

that because you'd be surprised how many people come out of the woodwork when, after these kids sign the contract, how many cousins or friends that they went to school with that are you know have these great ideas quote unquote and just need a little bit of money to help them launch this great idea and then a little bit more money to help us launch this great idea and so um you got to be really careful because i can definitely stress you out and take your focus off the court um which is your job that's what they got to remember this is your job so you've got to come prepared. You've got to play regardless what's going on in your life. You've got to play. It is your job, period. So helping them understand that and helping them try to take some of those

distractions out of the way. Yeah. And I can see how that's very different at the college level, right? Because, you know, most of the, the guys play for the level of the game with idea. Maybe they would, you know, most of the guys play for the level of the game with idea. Maybe they would, you know, get assigned by a pro team, but it's not their job. But you're right, the pro level, it definitely feels like a job. Tell us, Wendy, there's one mental training topic that you cover with the majority of your clients. Tell us, you know, what that would be and why you think that one in particular is important sure um i

would say it would be self-awareness it's something i talk about with everybody um if you kind of think back to what i said earlier about um my why with my twins and um pushing myself because i want to be able to have those conversations with them. So I do it myself as well. But I think that self-awareness piece is really critical. I think if you know who you are, then you know who you want to be. And so if you don't know who you are, then you have no idea how to get to where you want to be. And I think that's an ongoing battle, if you will. I don't know if it's really a battle, but it's an ongoing process. There you go. Ongoing process of, you know, we're always changing. So I think I'm always pushing that for athletes to figure out who they are. And I don't mean, you know, what's your favorite color

or what's your, you know, what movie you like or your favorite food. I mean, that's our simple things. I mean, even, even beyond that, I mean, what does it look like when you're hungry? How do you, how do you react when you're, when you are, when your feelings get hurt? How does that play out on the court? Cause we've all been there or on the field. How does that play out? You know, when you feel like you've been embarrassed, how does, what do you do? How do you react to that? Um, and figuring those things out and figuring out ways to kind of help counter that so you can do that in the moment. But until you know how you react or how you feel in those types of situations, you have to pay attention to that. Then you can't change it. So I think self-awareness is definitely something I'm always talking to athletes about. Yeah. And, you know, if you

could sort of like give us an insight on how, you know, as people are listening in there, like, man, you know, I really need to increase my self-awareness. What would you tell us in terms of, you know, what's the best way to do that? So I laugh because my analogy that I use for self-awareness is kind of, it's a little different, but it works. It makes a lot of sense. I think self-awareness is like body odor. Okay. So if you think about when you smell, when you start to smell, how do you know you start to smell? You can smell yourself. Well, but before you smell yourself, it's other people. Other to smell you can say well but before you smell yourself it's other people other

people smell you first sure so other people see you going in the wrong direction other see other people see you reacting blowing up right they see that you're not paying attention and that your your lips are tight or whatever this case may be other people see all of that when you recognize it yourself you're you're you're funky as they say you've gone you're way over the edge when you start to smell yourself you know you're you've gone too far you know remember you say that you know when when you can smell yourself you're you're over you're over the top um but first other people see it in you and then you see it in yourself and so i think self-awareness is like body odor. I think that when we recognize it in other people, you know, the people in your lives,

you can recognize, oh, you know that this person is upset. You know that her feelings got hurt, you know, whatever, because you've been able to recognize it in them. And they got to be able to recognize it in themselves. And I think the only way you can really do that is what I like to say, that you have to smell yourself. So you have to constantly check in, you know, smell yourself to see where you are,

check in with yourself to see what's going on, what's happening, and make those mental notes or write those mental notes down to see, oh, this is what's happening, this is what I'm feeling. You know, and I think a perfect example would be anger. I tell athletes all the time that anger is not a first degree emotion. It's a second degree emotion. So you think that someone has said something to you and you got angry. When in actuality, someone has said something to you and your feelings got hurt, you were embarrassed, and then that led to anger.

But you got to figure out what that first degree emotion is for, you know, when you figure that one out because you're checking it out. You're smelling yourself quote-unquote then you know what that is and then you can actually counter that before you get to anger so I think that's how you do it you have to as I said you smell yourself you got to stop and take notes you got to pay attention and be really proactive in that and it's I think when you first start to do that it can be very cumbersome but then it becomes a very a very easy thing then you first start to do that, it can be very cumbersome, but then it becomes a very easy thing. Then you really start to notice and you start to pay attention to different parts of yourself and different moods and how you feel here and all those kind of different things that come into play.

And you start to actually put a nice little picture together. Yeah, that's really good. And for you to have any intervention with yourself, you need to have the self-awareness, right? Like you can't necessarily change what you're thinking or, you know, let the emotion come and go if you're not really in tune with what you're doing and you're not working to master yourself. Absolutely. Yeah. I like the analogy of the odor. Wendy, is there like a signature technique that you use with your clients? So if you could just kind of describe that to us, you know, what's something that besides self-awareness and body odor and the analogy, is there something that you do that helps,

you know, helps your clients learn about a mental skill or tool? I don't know if there is something I would, I don't know if I would actually say that if there was a signature tool or something that I use. I think I'm very much focused on having just dialogue with the athletes. I'm really focused on wanting them to just, just, just to talk to me. I feel like that, you know, I tell them you don't have to come in with something, but there's, we can always, we can always end up talking about stuff and I can kind of get ideas about who you are. So I think more, if I had to say the signature thing would be more about showing them that once

you start paying attention to something, one little cue, it leads to another back to the self-awareness piece, at least to something else. So, you know, I want them to be who they are. It's, you know, I think it's always about just relaxing and being who you are, finding out what you do really well. And, you know, as I say, exploiting the hell out of that, whatever you do really well, exploit that. But not necessarily a specific technique. I think the only thing I specifically do would be is I use a lot of analogies and about everything that I do. I feel like that that helps folks grasp whatever it is I'm talking about

really well if I use an analogy. So I definitely use a lot of analogies. I'm pretty straightforward. So I think that that's, in my experience, I think that has been a bonus to, especially with the men that I've worked with, the fact that I am straightforward, they seem to like that. Yeah, absolutely. Could you give us another, an example of analogy besides the body odor, which is really good? An analogy that you might use that, you know, that's sticky and people remember. Sure. When you buy a plant from like Home Depot or

whatever the case may be, you know, it comes in a crate. Yes. There's like four of them. And when you take that plant out and you spread its roots and you get a nice little pot and you put dirt in it and you put the plant in and you put dirt, new dirt in there, and then you water it. And what do you think the first thing that plant does? It grows, is my sense, like the roots grow? Not yet. The first thing the plant does is it dies.

Oh, wow. Because it's in a new environment. Wow. And it has to figure out how to survive. When it does, then it starts to grow and then it grows out of that pot. So then you've got to get a bigger pot and get dirt and start the process all over again. And then the plant dies. And then it figures out how to survive in that environment and then it starts to grow again. And so I tell athletes, you always want to be going to a bigger pot.

You always want to be growing. Otherwise, you're staying in that little four craft thing that you buy at Home Depot that doesn't actually give you an opportunity to survive. So the only way you're really going to grow is if you're going to a new pot. So you got to find the new challenges. You got to put yourself in new situations. You've got to experience that part where the root goes, whoops, there's a rock there. How do I get past this rock? Because I still want to grow. You got to figure all of that out. And at first it's going to be hard because it's a new environment and quote unquote, you know, you die metaphorically. But then when you figure it out, you start to thrive and you grow, but you always want to go to a different, a new pot. You don't want to stop growing. You know, I think about just when I see people thrive, it's when they are growing, when they're going after another big challenge instead of just kind of like settling and

with their life or, you know, their athletic ability or their play. Absolutely. And that growth doesn't necessarily mean that you are successful in everything. You know, you can stay in that same pot for several years, but you're still finding ways to grow, you know? So that's the thing is that you're still finding ways to grow. And then when you're done, so to speak, growing in that pot, then you go to another one. I like it. You know, Wendy, as I'm thinking about, you know, your work in the NBA and in the Olympics and at the college level, what do you see in terms of barriers to implement sports psychology or mental training? Are generally people, you know, interested in kind of the field and what you do or what barriers might exist in terms of getting people to buy in?

Sure. I think a lot of times it's thought that the coaches do it the coaches implement the sports piece the mental stuff and so and why bring somebody else in that can to do that when the coaches are thought to do that as well and then there's also I think there's that piece where people think that they really don't need it I mean I've had numerous athletes tell me does is that does that really work you know and and And my response is, if you're questioning it, then you really haven't challenged yourself. If you're questioning if the mental aspect is important, you really haven't challenged yourself as an athlete or in anything that you've done because the mental aspect is really important. So I think that the fact that they – I think the coaches think – or it's the thought that the coaches do it. There's a thought that is it really effective? And I think at this level, there's a thought that

they don't need it because they're at this level. Yeah. And how would you respond to that, Wendy, if you had a, you know, an NBA player said, I don't need it. I've already made it here. Well, then it would be, let's get you to stay here. Absolutely. Let's get you to stay here because that's, that's, that's gonna, your that's gonna your your your body physically is gonna slow down or stop or hurt at some point and then the physical the mental piece is what's going to take you for another year or another year you're gonna have to change different aspects you may not become a shooter you may not be a shooter before but now you're gonna need to become a shooter that's changing your game because you're not as quick as

you used to be right and if you're getting in your own way if you're stuck in the comfort your comfort zone and you know your your mind is getting in your way of change it's not going to help you stay in the NBA or at the pro level very long sure sure and as you because as you get older your role is going to change and you got to be able to accept that and move forward so yeah let's keep you here. What about coaches that are listening that say, yeah, you know, you know, I can implement the mental game myself. What do you think the benefits are in terms of, you know, having someone like you or I come in and work? Sure. I think that the benefits of it is that you can have somebody do it on a one-on-one basis. I think in coaching,

it's more of a, on a larger scale. And when you're calling somebody in on one-on-one basis. I think in coaching, it's more on a larger scale. When you're calling somebody in on one-on-one, you're really trying to, in my experience, coaches are calling in on the X's and O's. I mean, let's take a football team. You're going to call in 160 guys individually to talk about mental aspects of the game. I mean, that's a lot of time for any of your coaches. If you have one person that's completely devoted to that, you can focus on one piece. They can focus on this. The nutritionist can focus on their piece. The athletic training can focus on that.

You guys all come together and meet, and you have all this information that you were giving to you as a coach. Then when you go and have that one-on-one conversation with your player, you've got all these different pieces to help you do your job better. I see it as we're helping the coach, we're helping the players, and I mean, honestly, we're helping the field of sports, which I think is always a good thing. Yeah, absolutely. So one other question that was submitted on Twitter, Wendy, by Chris Traynor at Perform Traynor. Chris asked, could you share with us a specific

intervention that you use for somebody who might be struggling with anxiety? Something specific. I'm going to maybe talk about someone that the anxiety is maybe on the court or on the field, maybe pre-performance. Sure. Yeah. I think that's either pre-performance or during the performance. You know, we could talk about routines all day long, but I definitely think developing a pre-performance routine is very effective. I think it helps to decrease your anxiety. It helps to give the athlete control over the situation. And it helps get their mind and body ready so I think developing a pre-performance routine is really is really great also think depending on the person helping them

find different cues that they can come use in the during the game that can bring them back to focus you know an example would be I oftentimes ask players to think of something that's funny something they think of that's just going to instantly make them laugh. And so when they find themselves in a situation where they're getting a little nervous, bring that picture in their head. Even if you laugh out loud, who cares? It's going to get you to relax and get you back focused on what you need to do. So something like that could be very valuable, but you have to put, implement it prior to. So you've got to bring it in. Like I said, what's that picture or that story and have them

tell you the story. Don't, don't let them go. Yeah, I got something in mind. I want to know what that is. Tell me what that story or that picture is. That's going to make you laugh. You can also do quotes or phrases. You know, I've had athletes come up with or find their quotes that resonate with them and phrases that resonate with them and have them memorize that. Again, so that way it's already in their head. Because, you know, it's hard to bring up something to help you change your focus in the moment. But you already have something memorized that's easier just to kind of pull retrieve it and so maybe thinking of a quote or phrase that they can they could use um you could use a landmark and in the game um that that when they see something you know it reminds them to pay

attention to right now one of the little phrases that um um when the acronym when oh you heard that you know what's important now that's something that i use as well you know um always want to think about when when and and that brings them back to what's important now and then always always always always is breathing yes is breathing um you know I think letting them know, I think it's really powerful to let them know that when they take a deep breath from the abdomen, that their body naturally relaxes and there's nothing they can do about it. It naturally relaxes for a couple of seconds. And that, then they can start to control that, but showing them how they can control their breathing. But, you. But again, the deep breaths, letting them know that your body's going to relax when they take the deep

breaths, sometimes seems to help decrease some of that. But that control, again, in my experience, that if you can give the athlete control over that anxiety, if you can find ways to help them control it or be the boss of it, if you will, helps to alleviate it. Yeah, those are excellent suggestions, Wendy. And let's turn the focus on you for a few minutes. And, you know, usually everyone that's on the podcast, I ask them to share a time that they failed, a time that didn't go so well for them. Because I think as people are listening, they might listen to your credibility and

your experiences and say, well, Wendy's perfect. But just the idea that we all fail and the importance of learning from that when things don't go great for us. So can you tell us a story about a time that didn't go great for you and what you learned and what we can learn from your experience? Sure. Actually, there were so many but the one that I think of the thought of when you first started

talking was I was during my undergraduate I went to go play basketball and then quickly found out that my ankle was not going to sustain that I could play basketball in college and so I had out that my ankle was not going to sustain, that I could play basketball in college, and so I had to have my ankle reconstructed. So that completely derailed my basketball career. So I did not handle it very well. I stopped going to school, stopped going to classes,

and was just hanging out. And so I was kicked out of school. They suspended me from school for a year, told me to leave and go get myself together. And so that was in that year that I was out of school, I was a nanny and I had I did have a great time. But I realized in that year that I needed I needed a degree. And so I went I went back to school after that year. But my GPA was so low. I had to take classes just to raise it up and graduate because you had to have a two-point just to graduate. And so I had to take classes

just to get my GPA to two points so I can graduate. So that was, I look back at it now and although it was hard, I'm very glad that it happened. I think if I'd have been successful from the jump, I don't know if I'd have been had a drive that I have now. Okay. Um, I, I think that was a very integral part of me knowing that I could, um, fail and be successful and not, and not worry about. Um, and if I didn't, if I wasn't successful, I could get a job as a nanny. I mean, I could do something else until I figured out what I wanted to do.

So I've never in my, it's played out throughout my life, or I've just taken these challenges or these challenges, these risks. And behind every risk has been, you know, if it doesn't work, you know, I can go do something. You know, I'll wait tables until it does. And so, and I think that kind of stems back from me failing and having to push way back. Sure. And do you mean like the challenges in terms of, you know, working for the Olympics and just these sort of bigger jobs, maybe the bulls, those are kind of the challenges that you're talking about? No, not necessarily.

I mean, I've moved cross-country several times just on a whim, so it changed my entire life. Yeah, for sure. And things have kind of worked out, you know. I mean, in actuality, my move to Chicago wasn't because of the Bulls job. I was moving to Chicago to be close to family. And I was moving to Chicago without a job. So it wasn't that I was – I wasn't working, which was on purpose.

I quit working so I could stay home with the twins. But I thought I'm ready to move to Chicago and be close to family. But I had no job. So I was taking a big risk. And this presented itself about two months before I was actually leaving. So I figured, you know, this was in God's plan. So if I was going to pick up and move cross country with two kids and no job, and then get a job with the Bulls, it's definitely a good idea.

Well, now I see a sense of what you're talking about. Just, you know, following, following your passion, but also kind of following your gut and making decisions like moving across country to be home with your kids. Awesome. So, Wendy, one of the people on Twitter, Charles Inferna at 4N's Athletics asked me to ask you, what advice would you have for somebody interested in becoming a sports ecologist? I would say you need to get your master's degree in sports psych and at least a master's degree in counseling or clinical or educational psychology. You need to be able to be licensed in some form.

It doesn't need to be a doctorate like myself, but you can still get licensed with a master's degree. So I think you need to be marketable. I think you need to be able to say you could do the mental aspect and if need be the clinical piece that comes into play. I think that's the start. And then I think after that is that, you know, sports psych is a small field and so is athletics. I think you need to find ways to connect if you're not a member of ASP I think ASP is a great organization when you're a student and not so honestly I think not so much as a professional but when you're a student you meet so many students you make great connections you find ways to what other people are doing to get internships or to just do a little work here or how to do this or how to do that.

So ASP is a great resource as a student. And don't be afraid to put yourself out there. I mean, when I was in my master's program, I offered my services to people, and I didn't charge them. Even after I got done, I didn't charge. And when I did charge, I charged, I think, like $60 an hour. It was more about getting experience of how to approach somebody about offering services. That's what I was trying to do.

So I think you should focus on getting that experience and not focus so much on money at the beginning. Because if you can get the experience in doing that, then you can do it later and make money. But if you don't have that experience in going to present to an organization, a team, I mean, I was in my master's program and went to high school. I didn't do the internship that they had for us and went to high school and talked to the principal and athletic director to say, I'm a sports-like student and I want to offer my services free to you. They had me do a presentation, which I was like, oh my God, I've never done that before. But I went back to my advisor, and he helped me put it together.

So I did a presentation. And they liked it, and they wanted me to do it. So I ended up working with the basketball team. But I mean, I learned how to do that. And so I think those are the things you've got to do, is not be so focused on, oh, I can get out and charge $200 an hour. I think you need to focus on how do I do this? How do I actually talk to people? How do I present myself? How do I sell myself? How do I go into a company and say, this is what I'm offering?

And if again, you can offer free at the beginning and then charge a later, but I think it's just getting that experience is really, really important. Yeah. So what I hear, Wendy, you're saying is like, focus on the experience over what you're going to get from it, right? Focus on developing yourself over the money or anything else like that. Yes. I think it's real important if you do that at the beginning. I think in my experience, and I think in others' others experience it works out because you only you truly only got one shot you only got one shot and so and if you blow that I mean you know I was at James Madison and we and they brought people

in to do sports like presentation they brought two people in the four years I was there you know because these people were flashy and came in with all they had this plan and they're gonna do this you know all these these people were flashy and came in with, oh, they had this plan and they're going to do this, you know, all these things, which is great. And they paid them, I think they paid him like $2,500 or $5,000 to come in and talk to the students, even though I was there working with them. But both times, both people came in and both times after they left, not only the students, but the coaches were like, well, that was just a waste. Sure. That was just a waste.

I mean, they presented well at the beginning, but there was nothing to them. There was no substance to them. And you could figure that out when they came in. So they had that one shot to make a good impression, and they didn't. So, yeah, they made some money, but they were never called back. And I can guarantee you, they didn't get a good reference. If someone called to ask how the presentation went at James Madison, they didn't get a good reference. And so I think it'd be better to come in, not charge as much and be able to make that connection. And where someone's going to say, yep, you know what? I want to work with her again.

Yep. It's just, she was great. Let me tell you about her. And they're going to say, yep, you know what? I want to work with her again. Yep, she was great. Let me tell you about her. And they're going to tell somebody else about you and somebody else about you. That's what you want. Somebody else, you know, you want that connection. Yeah. So what I'm hearing is like do good work, but, you know, also have the substance behind you,

the knowledge and the experience, less about the flash. Yes. And if people are interested in learning more about ASP, so ASP is Association for Applied Sports Psychology, and you can find more information at AppliedSportsPsych.org. So Wendy, I have a few final questions for you. If you could recommend a book or any kind of resource for the audience, what would it be and why would you choose that? One book, wow. Or resource, you know, is there anything that maybe you you know you suggested your

athletes read or you know something that's informed you in your practice so there's two books i i i suggest everybody usually um depending on the situation but there's it's usually two um the first one is mind gym i like to give folks mind gym because i think it's a story about sports psych that athletes tell so it's not it's not psychobabble they get to read about alex rodriguez's experience with sports psych as different swimmers and golfers so you know nascar drivers they talk about their experiences in the mental aspect so So it's not psychobabble, it's just individual stories. So I think that helps give them a nice little blueprint and, you know, set the ground for what it is we want to do. The other book that I recommend is Who Moved

My Cheese. I love it. I mean, it's oldie but a goodie. Change is always happening. And we do not, as a people, I just don't think we handle change well. And so being able to handle change well is a huge, huge, huge, huge, huge thing. So I think those are the two that I'm always reaching for. That's good. I actually have the kids version of Who Moved My Cheese, and I read it to my kids. It's pretty fun I'm hoping that you know that something is sinking in there so that's a good good good advice you know what advice would you have when you for those people

who are listening so athletes coaches leaders entrepreneurs it's the high performers people their Do you have any final advice for us? Be who you are. I found that that is something that has taken me a long way. And I think it, I think it, you know, I think it takes other people a long way as well. I think it just makes life easier if you stay true to yourself and not try to compromise or change who you are in order to get a job or to connect with whatever to this athlete. I think the connection will happen if you just are you. People like people with quirks and differences and all those things. So if you're comfortable with all that, it shows.

And people like that. And how do you, you know, if you could give us sort of a piece of advice, how do we do that? Because I agree. It's actually one of my 10 practices, you know, that I kind of teach is to be what I describe as consciously authentic, which just means like working to be yourself. But, you know, what advice would you give people who are kind of struggling with that? Maybe they aren't comfortable kind of showing people their quirks. Advice. I think that's a hard thing to say. I don't know if I could actually give you advice because I think that it's a different stages for every person. So I think it's a matter of maybe becoming self-aware of why it is you're not comfortable with that piece. And then working on that, why you're not comfortable with that and working on that and helping that be your, I don't know, your needle, if you will, to move forward. So what is it about whatever the situation is or whatever that piece is about you that you don't particularly like

and being okay with it? I think, I guess give you example i am a i'm a terrible sleeper and it's something that um people know pretty soon after knowing me especially athletes because they send me text messages or emails at crazy times and um especially with another country and i end up responding because i'm awake and so they learn i'm a terrible sleeper and that's something that seems to have bothered a lot of people um oh my god you don't sleep that much or there's something wrong and so then i internalized that much or there's something wrong. And so then I internalized that and thought there's something wrong with me

because I don't sleep that well. And then that much, or when I learned to accept this is it, that's how my body functions. I, you know, I'm not gonna stress over it because I was, I was not happy about it. That was because it was other people. I was okay with it.

But then other people, as they found out, they made me, I took on their uncountableness. And so now say, I mean, I say, I don't sleep, I'm not a big sleeper. Don't, don't be surprised if you get this, you know, if I respond to text messages or whatever time, I'm not a great sleeper. And, you know, I've had people that are, have been oh my god and people send me articles And you know You know, and I come back with you know what I get that you're uncomfortable that I'm not a big big sleeper But I'm completely okay with that that I'm not a big sleeper. I'm okay with it You know, that's your problem that I'm not a big sleeper. It's not my problem. So I want them to recognize that. Um, um,

but it took me a while to get to where I was okay with being not a big sleeper. So, um, and that's something, you know, I think again, back to when you're, when you get to where you're okay with those little things, I mean, I wear it on my sleeve. I don't even care. I mean, it's just, it's part of who I am and it's my makeup. It's, it's a quirk. It's just, it's just me. And so it wasn't easy, but it's still, it's good. I'm very glad that I got there. And so it's a, it's a, it's a path that you got to go on. And I also think that if you're not showing up as yourself, it's really hard to make connections with other people because

there's some, some reason you're guarded. And I like how you're talking about how it all comes back to self-awareness. Kind of the one main thing that you really talked about earlier in the conversation, you know, the topic that you cover with all of your clients. So, Wendy, I just first want to honor you for, you know, all the great work that you've done in the field and just being here and being an open book today with us. I want to share with you a few things that really stood out to me in terms of things that I thought were helpful. I liked how you talked about how the best not only sacrifice, make sacrifices to be really world-class, but also that they have the balance while they're sacrificing. You talked about a body odor is is analogy for self-awareness,

which I love. And then you gave us so many good, valuable strategies in terms of ways that we could decrease our anxiety. And I loved our conversation at the end about being who you are. So, Wendy, how can we connect with you? Sure. So you can, my website is really simple. It's just WendyBollaby.com. So that's easy. So you can, my, my website is really simple. It's just wendybollaby.com. So that's easy.

So you can find me there or you can email me and call me actually through the website. And then, and then the camp that, yes, I developed a program is called Wisdom Knot, K-N-O-T. And it's about educating inner city kids on athletics, athletic careers besides being that 1% to make it into the NBA and the NFL. So wanting them to see that they could be a sports psychologist, a sports medicine, a coach, equipment manager, all those kinds of things. And so, and using the venue to educate them with this program,

we're using a camp. And so I teamed up with Rajon Rondo. And so we're doing a camp this year, August 12th and and 13th it's a two-day camp i'll be here in chicago um we're going to be using that we're going to be with 50 kids um and giving them this information and so and we're hoping to increase that um next year um to more than two days about a four-day camp but uh no not just use basketball but use other sports camps as a way to educate them and, and help them find their passion in athletics besides being the athlete and wanting to carry that onto developing scholarships and internships and mentorships of people. So we want to make this full circle.

So we're not just breeding kids that watch sports on TV and they want to be the next LeBron James. We want them to see they could, you know, be the next Rod, which is our equipment manager. They want to be the next Gar Foreman, you know, the general manager, they could be Fred Hoiberg. They'd be a coach. They could be the next, you know, Dr. Bollaby. They can do all these different things that still be connected with sports. Excellent. And I'm sure you,

we can just look for more information on your website for that, you know, once that's posted. Absolutely. Okay. Absolutely. And are you on any social media channels for us to follow you? I'm about on, I think most of them. I'm on Twitter. I'm on Instagram. I'm on Facebook. That's great. And what's your Twitter handle? DrBallaby. It's, I think they're all pretty much at Dr. I know Instagram is at DrBallaby.

And I think Twitter is the same at DrBallaby. All right. Well, I'll make sure Wendy, if you, and as the listeners or as we're finishing up, I will make sure to put all of Wendy's links over at cindercampoff.com slash Wendy. So thank you so much for being here today, your wisdom to help us grow and learn and just be

the best versions of ourselves. So I want to thank you so much for your time and your energy this morning. Thank you. And thank you for having me. I really had a great time. This was good. And I, you know, I look forward to, to listening to this and the future podcasts that you have as well. Awesome. Thank you, Wendy. Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset. If you liked today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend and join the conversation on Twitter at Mentally Underscore Strong. For more inspiration and to receive Sindra's free weekly videos, check out DrSindra.com.