High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 131: Owning the Moment & Pro Sport with Josh Lifrak, Director of the Mental Skills Program with the Chicago Cubs

Episode Date: September 7, 2017

During this Facebook Life event, Josh Lifrak, Director of the Mental Skills Program with the Chicago Cubs, and Cindra talk about working in Pro Sport, her new book Beyond Grit, and the 10 Powerful Practices to Gain the High Performing Edge. To order a copy of Beyond Grit, go to BeyondGrit.com. Order by Thursday, Sept. 7th at 11:59 EST and you will receive $5 off, free shipping, free audiobook, and free ebook. www.BeyondGrit.com

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Sindra Kampoff, and I'm grateful that you're here. Ready to listen to an interview I did with Josh Liffrack, who provides mental training for the Chicago Cubs. Now, the goal of these interviews is to learn from the world's best leaders, athletes, coaches, and consultants all about the topic of mindset to help us reach our potential or be high performers in our field or our sport. Now if you have been following me on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram you know this

is a really huge week in the Camp Off life and the High Performance Mindset family. I launched my first book called Beyond Grit 10 Powerful Practices to Gain the High Performance Mindset family, launched my first book called Beyond Grit, 10 Powerful Practices to Gain the High Performing Edge. And it's been a phenomenal journey the last five days. So we launched it last Thursday night with a big party in my hometown with music and food and a lot of great speakers. And you can actually get your copy at beyondgrit.com. Now what's phenomenal is

between now and September 7th at 1159 p.m. Eastern Time, you get a pretty sweet deal. You get $5 off the book. Retails for $25. So you get $5 off the book. You also get free shipping and you get the free ebook and audio book all before September 7th at 1159 p.m. Eastern time. So I'd encourage you to head over to beyondgrit.com and check it out there. Now, Josh and I, Josh Liffrack, who provides mental training for the Cubs, he received a pre-release copy of the book and provided me a testimonial, which I'm very grateful for.

And this is what he said about the book. He said, Beyond Grit takes the concepts of resilience and perseverance and gives the reader practical tools and tips to create lifelong habits. Dr. Kampoff is one of the foremost sports psychology consultants in the world and something that's further evidenced by reading this book. It is a must

for anybody who wants to perform at their absolute best. Yesterday, Josh and I sat down. We talked about the book. We talked about pro sport. He works with the Cubs. I work with the Minnesota Vikings and do other work in pro sport. And so we talked about pro sport, struggles in pro sport. What do we see athletes struggle with at that point? And we also talked about lots of different concepts from the book. Now we talk about the 10 powerful practices, which is a PDF that you can actually go and head and download. And you can go to beyondgrit.com slash workshop slash practices. Okay, so that's

beyondgrit.com slash workshop slash practices. And you can download the PDF of the top 10 practices of the world's best. And so we talk about several of those throughout our conversation. We talk about owning the moment, knowing what your purpose is. We talk about the importance of staying in the present and then some powerful strategies to enhance your grit. So I can't wait to hear what you think. We would encourage you to head over to Twitter at mentally underscore strong tag myself and lift rack is uh lift attack if you just search joshua lift rack you'll also find it so we look forward to hearing what you think about the interview which of these 10 practices that we talk about stand out to you and go get your copy of beyond grit powerful practices to

gain the high performing edge and you'll find it very practical, easy to read, and something that you can use with your team or yourself to be the best version of you. So without further ado, let's bring on Josh. What's up? I'm here with my man, Josh Liffrack here. We're talking about Beyond Grit all the way from sunny Florida, which is kind of funny because it's actually sunnier here right now in Minnesota. Yeah, it is. It's like pitch black here. It's crazy.

It's like all light there. I don't know what the heck's going on. It's freaking me out. So Josh, hey, I want to just appreciate you joining us today and talking about Beyond Grit, which you provided an endorsement for. And we're also going to talk a little bit about pro sport and kind of the things that we see even pro athletes struggle with that that are in that's in beyond grit and we're going to talk about these 10 practices of high performers which is the structure of beyond grit so i just want to thank you so much for being here today no problem my pleasure absolutely my pleasure cedric i think for you the people who are listening let's tell people how we met so i know we've met through the Association

for Applied Sports Psychology. I know we met in an IMG, IMG Academy. So when I was working at the Academy, you came down for, I think we were doing like a workshop type of thing for a weekend or whatever. And you were one of the participants and you and I just hit it off.

And we just kept talking about, you were talking about Minnesota State Baseball and they were playing like University of we just kept talking about, you were talking about Minnesota State baseball. And they were playing like University of Tampa or something like that, right? In the College World Series, Division II. Right, right. Yeah, we were watching as we were eating. And then we've been, you know, friends ever since. Yeah, I appreciate you being on here today.

So what did you think, Josh, when you read Beyond Grit? Well, I got to tell you, what's really amazing about it is we were looking, you know, we were kind of doing, you know, just an overview. It's kind of near the end of the year. Our major league team's still playing, battling for a playoff spot, but minor league season ended today. And then we have a couple teams in the playoffs, which we're pumped about. But there, we were looking, kind of just doing an overview of like, what's missing? What are we missing for an organization? What are the players missing missing what are some of the things that we need to really bear down on and do better at and one of the biggest things we looked at was was great we said

hey our kids this generation especially of pro athletes they seem to be um excuse laden um if things aren't going the right way they it just tell sometimes before a game how we're gonna do. Right, just by what's going on outside. If it's a rain out the day before, if we got a double header or something like that. And so we said, hey, we need to kind of get a little grittier. It's funny, you know, if you look in

and you go into the research on grit, and even Angela Duckworth in her Ted talk talks about how she doesn't know what really works to make people gritty. Right. But, but, but we have our assumptions and then we look at it and bam, there's this book beyond grit and it lays out all these little things that help you become grittier and it's awesome. And so, you know, it's going to be a great tool that we're going to be using. Certainly with our organization, we'll definitely be handing it out and instructs the spring training and stuff awesome and so you know it's going to be a great tool that we're going to be using certainly uh

with our organization we'll definitely be handing it out and instructs the spring training and stuff like that and you know it's got a great a bunch of great stuff in there the biggest thing for us is is the being present not perfect you know for us it's that's that's a huge thing and you have a huge section on just how to be present and really appreciated Well, that would be super sweet if the Cubs were using beyond. But you're right. Like what I what I really tried to do in the book, Josh, was give some practical tools and strategies, because I think the thing that's really frustrating for me and even when I saw a person like us when I was in college, he talked so theoretical and I'm like, OK, I need to know what I need to do today. And that's it. What do I need to do? Right. Great. It's awesome. I understand the concept of grit, perseverance and long-term goals. I got it. How do I get there?

What do I do? I don't know. What do I do right now? And that's what's awesome about the book is that every single chapter, bam, here's the thing. How do I apply this tool to me? Well, here's a worksheet that you do. You just do this every day. There's 52 things to do to get yourself locked in right here, right now. It's awesome. Awesome, awesome. Yeah, so like, for example, my second chapter is-

There it is. There you go. No grit, no pearl. And I just talk about like, you know, whatever your pearl is, for the cows, it might be the World Series, you know, whatever your pearl is for the cows, it might be the World Series, you know. But for us, everyday people, you know, our pearl might be like a different kind of goal. And you're right, like it's super easy to read with four things you need to do to develop that practice. Very, very practical.

Just because I wanted people like something that they could use and really user friendly. Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's quite well. So Josh, one of the things that I really wanted to talk about is, you know, just like talking about what, what we both see in pro sport, you weren't the Cubs. I work with the Minnesota Vikings. And I think one of the things that you, you said, you know, you guys were really talking about and focusing on it as being present,

not perfect. And I think that's so powerful. I'd love to hear more about that. And you can share that with everybody listening. And for those people who are watching, I'd love for you to put some comments down below. What would you like Josh and I to talk about? I want to see the comments. Where are they?

I want to see them. Let's see. I want to see the comments. You can see them, but I can see them on my right-hand side of the screen. No, not there. I'll tell you when there's a comment, Josh. All right. You can't put in the top 10, and I call them the top 10 practices of the world's best.

I call them practices not because they're not something you're born with, but you develop them over time, right? And even if you don't want to become the world's best in your field, it's like this is our standard. And so one of the things I was thinking about before we got on the call, I was thinking about, okay, what do I see, you know, pro athletes that I work with really struggle with? And it's number six, owning the moment, which is exactly what you just said, you know, not being not perfect, but present. So tell us a little bit about, you know, how you guys use that. And then and then I can share with you some of the strategies in the book. Yeah. You know, you know, for us, we always talk about being present and not perfect, because ultimately, if you're present, you have a better chance of success of execution, because that's what that's what it boils down to, right? The mental game. So about executing in this moment right here right now. So, you know, for us, there's a lot of things that we do as an organization that we teach the guys, but certainly the practice of meditation is a huge factor in terms of helping guys learn how they're getting in the moment. And one of the big things that we recognize is that, you know, you're not going to be focused all the time.

And here it is, even if it's like the World Series or even if it's a playoff game, there's opportunities to be distracted. You know, you think like naturally, oh, OK, here's an athlete and they're in this big moment and their feet are going to be in the batter's box, and there's no way of finding out what's about it. They're going to be focused. But they have like, but what ends up happening is because the moment's so big, the energy runs really fast, and then the thoughts run very fast. So the big thing for us is being present means being present to being able to focus on what's really important now. So as they get a little bit maybe off kilter, oh gosh, don't strike out here, it means this, or if I get a hit here, it means this.

No, that doesn't help. What helps is what am I looking for, what's my plan, focus on that, how do I execute it? Boom, that's it. And all those other thoughts, they don't matter, but if I've been practicing catching myself drifting, if I've been catching myself thinking bad, per se, then I can take a breath, and I can reset and I can settle back in and I can be where my feet are.

So that's a huge thing. Yeah. And you know, those are some of the same things that I talk about in the book in terms of like practice number six, owning the moment. And you know, I think the key is, is just noticing where your attention is, and, you know, bringing it back to the moment. You know, I think, Josh, a lot of people think that, you know, maybe that's just something that we're just going with. But that's actually a practice that we can develop over time by training our attention. And I like what you said in terms of like noticing where it is and then kind of gently bringing it back. A few things that I talk about, you know, I do i do talk about the right here the research on mindfulness and provide people a strategy that they can use and uh and exercise i talk about why it's so important to focus on

the process over the outcome and something that i really see especially in pro sport is i see like guys and i talk about guys. I'm thinking about the NFL and the work they do in the NFL, like over trying where they try so hard and they're focused so much on the outcome that they they press. Right. Instead of just like being at their best in the moment and and taking the breath to like control themselves and be in the moment. Do you ever see that? Like the guys you work with are really they're so so focused on like being perfect and just they're pushing too hard that they're like over trying and they're pressing. Absolutely. Absolutely. You see it certainly a lot more at the lower levels than the higher levels, but the higher levels have kind of figured out the rhythm a little bit. Now they're going to get out of the rhythm. And when they get out of the rhythm,

that's oftentimes when problems start happening and they start really crushing and pushing and pushing and pushing um and then they have to kind of take that step back and realize okay wait a second i'm just this is a little off this is a little off this is a little off but absolutely you see it all the time um guys grip the ball a little bit tighter guys grip the bat a little bit tighter um they you know they give a little bit too much as it were right there's a that balance that equilibrium that you have to meet in order for things to go to go well i mean talk about baseball it's you know oh one five seconds to make a decision whether you're going to swing or not you know blink your eyes go ahead blink your eyes okay it's gone decision's gone yeah you know so it's crazy so you have to be able to really react in the moment and keep your

mind where your feet are right in the present moment yeah and it's almost like it's almost it's a weird feeling when it happens for the guys they often talk about it where um they're not thinking right they've they've thought about their plan and they get in the box and then they're just there and they just let their bodies take over and the thousands of reps that they've taken in the in the in the cages or the thousands of pitches they've thrown you know in long toss and things of that nature they just let it take over um so it's almost getting out of your out of your own way absolutely yeah and when we're thinking you're in the present right one of the of the things I talk about, Josh, and maybe this is something you guys talk about too, is the Cubs is like showing you this picture here where, you know,

I provide this continuum here where you're in the present is in the middle, and it says you can do anything or be anything in the present. And then the past is like when we experience, you know, these negative emotions like anger, frustration, regret, or depression. In the future, we can be focused on the outcome or the results, experience anxiety or fear or self-doubt. And, you know, what I'm just trying to show you this. A few days ago, I was given a talk to, like, high schoolers. I was like, your mind can be in three places. And they were like, I said, where?

And, you know, the one person just said, like, right here, way up here. And I was like, okay, that makes sense. And then they're like, way back here. I'm like, okay, that works. But my but my point is like this is really helpful for me you know and right now we're talking about baseball and football and you know pro sport but all of these you know strategies and practices we can use those in our everyday life and this is something that I use just like when I when I find myself not in the present you know I just notice where my mind is and if it's like so in the in the future it's like okay you know or I'm

focusing on the outcome or I'm feeling pressure it's like okay I just need to get my mind back right here right now and so that's one of the ways it's just like being aware of where it is and then bringing it back to the present when that's where you can do anything you want be anything you want right yeah that is the here and the now that when that's where you can do anything you want, be anything you want, right? Yeah, it's the here and the now. That's what's most important. It's how you're being in this moment. That's the hugest thing.

And I think you nailed it, right? The present, the past, all that stuff. You can't hit a baseball if you're in the future. You can't hit a baseball if you're in the past. It's only if the head is on your shoulders in that moment. So that's what it's all about. And again, it goes back to the training. We use meditation as a form of training,

not to get your energy at the right level, but to catch yourself drifting and to catch yourself thinking bad and to draw yourself back in and have those reps. Yeah. And we can all use mindfulness or meditation to train our minds to become the present. And we don't have to be a professional

athlete to do so right no yeah no absolutely and i think you know the other thing is that whoever you are as a person in your life you have a performance right it could be your job it could be your as a father it could be as a mother as a spouse as a friend as a son as a daughter right that's a a lot of it is is being in a performance so we know that you're going to do better in those things and we know what the research says about mindfulness and meditation training that it's off the charts in terms of how much more connected you become how much more emotionally intelligent you become how much more aware you become of the things around you and it allows you to be a better person in this earth period so yeah that's nice that's nice so i got a question for you i'm going to read off these 10 practices for you josh

i'd like to hear which one of these do you think it's most important for the cubs to consider because i'm just thinking like you win the world series right how awesome that is you know which one of these do you think it's really important? And, you know, we don't have to talk about the Cubs, but, like, for all of us, maybe we experience, like, something really huge in our lives. And, you know, how do we continue to move forward? And maybe right after that we might struggle in some ways. What do you think?

Because this is really kind of the structure of the book. Yeah, number two is huge, right? Knowing your purpose. And I think that's one of the big things. Like, we knew our purpose really, really, really clearly last year. It was to do something historic that apparently 5 million people thought was amazing. So they all came to a parade. So, right. So that's, you know, like that's a huge element is, you know, knowing what you're there to do and why you're there to do it.

So oftentimes when you're out and you're just going through the motions or you're in game 120 and it's August and it's hot as heck and you're just kind of out there again, it's like Groundhog Day over and over and over again. You have to know why you're there. And it might be your family. It might be the team. It might be the people of Chicago. It might be that you're serving God. It might be your family, it might be the team, it might be the people of Chicago, it might be that you're serving God, it might be, you know, that you want to change the world in some positive fashion by being a baseball player. But whatever it is, it's got to be big,

and it's got to be strong, it's got to be powerful. And it's got to get be something that you can latch on to to get you through those days. Absolutely. And I see the same thing, you know, in pro sport, when I work with athletes. It's like if they don't have a really clear why, it's just such a such a grind. Right. And the NFL is even shorter than Major League Baseball. But I mean, I see it. You know, they have to put their bodies through a lot. So, Josh, tell us your why. And, you know, that's something I talk about in practice, too, is a few things I really love in practice, too, is I talk about owning your why. So, you know, like and I know you've read Simon Sinek's TED Talk and and watch or read his book.

Start with why. But I think it one step further and say you got to own it. You know, like you might know it, but can you can you remind yourself every day? And then another thing I talk about in practice, too, is like actually giving you a structure so you can write your purpose statement which is super cool right that's awesome yeah yeah so yeah last year really you know obviously winning the world series was a was a huge goal but it was really all about and it still is about changing what's possible in the universe for for humanity right so what our thought process was last year is you go and you win the world series and now you're going to show all these people in chicago hey man if you do things a certain way anything is possible you can break a hundred and eight year old curse you know things

that haven't been done before that it would never be done right can be done and now it's about still changing the world and still showing people that if you do things the right way over and over and over again, you're going to get great results over and over and over again. I kind of love this year because we're not very good and we've had things that have hit us and we've had injuries and we've had setbacks, but we just keep moving forward. And I think that's awesome, right? Because last year was a little bit of a dream season we won 103 games we blew through the playoff well not not blew through the playoffs but we you know we did this thing where we had a really special team and and it was awesome and people were blown away and they oh my god this

is different i can't believe what's possible but now it's about you know that consistency of the model you know now it's about hey how do we keep going every year and how do we stay locked into it? I just saw like a question pop up. I don't know how. Yeah, we got a question. Yeah, it was cool. It just popped up across the screen.

So the why is still continuing to help humanity in terms of the things that I believe help make people better people. Yeah, that's awesome. So that is a huge why. That's like a universe-related why. Right. You know, changing the world and showing people that anything is possible.

You know, Josh, one cool thing is I remember when you were on my podcast, The High Performance Mindset, and we were talking, and this was before, you know, the season began, and you were like, we're going to win the World Series,

and when we do, you know, this is how I'm going to celebrate. So it was like, you know, you, and obviously you're one person in the whole organization right but um my point is it's like you're you're convinced you're going to do that which is awesome it's like setting your intention and then letting it happen so this josh what's one thing you've learned from working with joe madden yeah one thing i've learned from working with joe madden is is is patience right and uh and belief in the process so trusted faith in the process i guess would be working with Joe Madden? Yeah, one thing I've learned from working with Joe Madden is patience, right? And belief in the process. So trust and faith in the process, I guess, would be the one

thing that I've really learned from Joe Madden in terms of, I always knew about the process and I knew why it was important. And we talk about it with the athletes and stuff like that. But even as somebody who works in the organization, you get, oh my God, we're not winning, we're not winning, we're not, you know, like you get pent up in that and you forget to look at the process so um this year has been a really great learning experience for me with joe in terms of hey just trust the process this is what we do we're going to see where the chips fall at the end of the year but we have to stay within our process nice that's awesome that's one of the things i talk about in right here. See what chapter is that? 29. Just the importance of attacking the process, you know, not getting so outcome focused. But I think that's really hard to do, you know, especially when you are, you know, you're like trying to go for a World Series or trying to go for a Super Bowl or, you know, whatever the big goal is.

You know, for me, it was maybe writing the book and to be straight. There were a lot of times I got focused on the outcome like oh my god I'm only blank pages in and you know I have I have I have 100 pages to go and I know you know I talked to you about this because there was time where I forgot my why I think and I was so focused on you, maybe it could happen instead of writing the best I could today. Yeah, absolutely. Do you remember the advice you gave me? I said just probably I probably said just get into a process and just do it like every morning. Just sit down and just start writing for 20 minutes or 40 minutes or something like that. Probably. Right.

Yeah, it was totally about the process. And I even wrote a little sticky on my right right above where I wrote. And it's just one page at a time. One page at a time. Nice. So so not only are you helping me, you know, you're attacking the process can help us in any way. By the way, Matt said beautiful to your. Thank you. Thank you, Matt. appreciate that buddy i think you know for for us in terms of like you know i know one of the things that always happens with us is i think we get a lot of listeners who might be sports psych people or or people who are students of sports psych and stuff like that so i think we could certainly i don't know we could probably chat about that a little bit and you know maybe our past to how we got to where we are or something. Yeah, for sure.

You start. Tell us a little bit about your path and how you got to where you are. I mean, you know, I think sometimes, you know, people might think, wow, you know, they got to pro sport and, you know, that's never going to happen for me. But we started just like everyone else, right? And we're not perfect either. We're still learning and growing and attacking the process every day. It's funny because Matt just wrote, speaking of that, I mean, Matt just wrote again to us about, hey, do you have any books or anything? And I'm like, no, I've never.

My wife is sitting about 20 feet from me and she constantly is on me about writing a book. And I got to do it one of these days. But, you know, that's part of that process, though, right, Is, hey, you know, putting out stuff that people can have and do and use in their daily lives, let alone just what we're doing. So, yeah, Josh has been on my podcast, High Performance Mindset, and I think Success 101. I know for sure you've been on. So those are pretty sweet podcasts you can go back and listen to. So you started, did you start at IMU, did you do sports psychology or what was your step before? No, no, I was, so, you know,

I didn't know what I wanted to do out of college. And so I waited tables for years. I was a waiter until I was about 30 and I went back to school. I didn't have the right requirements to get into a grad program for sports psych. And so I ended up having to go back to add like 20 credits to my undergrad degree. I was doing that while I was waiting tables in New York City and then went to college in upstate New York, got my master's degree there and then moved back to the city to write my thesis. And during that year, when I was writing my thesis, I was working with local colleges. I was just hustling. I was working for Outward Bound, doing like outdoor leadership schools. I was just, you know,

hustling. That's what you do. I mean, it's Manhattan, right? You hustle. So I was just trying to find anything and everything. And then, you know, I did an internship out at the academy, NIMG Academy in that time. And they liked me enough that they hired me and I spent nine years down there, 10 years down there. And that was a hustle in its own right. That wasn't easy by any stretch of the imagination. It was underpaid, overworked and learned a ton. But you were always like, man, how do I make this work for my family financially?

And it wasn't working financially. So then it was okay i gotta get out of here how do i get out of here uh because every idea that we brought to earn more money for the staff that was there they just rejected some like out of hand no that's not no we're not gonna do that okay great thanks okay i need to leave so it became a situation where you know you just start rattling the trees again and hustling again. And so, Hey, Bernie holiday, Pittsburgh pirates. I know you, you know, me, we like each other. We do good work. You know,

have you heard anything in baseball? Have you heard of anything in baseball? Have you heard anything with anybody? And it was just putting out the word and it was like two year process before the Cubs who I had no contacts with whatsoever, called me. And they called me because they had gotten a recommendation from people I knew at the Cleveland Indians. So, you know, it was pretty lucky, to be honest with you. I keep thinking about that. I talked to my wife about it the other day.

I was like, man, we were so lucky that they called us. But luck is kind of created, too, right? Had I not put the name out there, had I not been banging on doors, had I not been throwing stuff out, I wouldn't have ended up with an organization that I fit in. Yeah, exactly. And that's what I was thinking as you were talking, you know, it's like, well, you were lucky because you did good work at IMG and you're great at what you did. And then you're lucky because you knew Bernie and, you know, you could connect with other people in baseball. So it's sort of like, you know, I think what you and I have in common is the hustle factor.

Yeah. You know, so when I think about, you know, just like how I got started, it was doing a lot of work, a lot of applied work. You know, the high school, the youth, the college level so that you get really really good at what you do and I think that's key right and so you know I know you mentioned anybody in sports psychology or performance psychology who are listening it's like you got to do the work to develop your skills and then right luck follows but you got to get really really really good at what you do and not only like know the science of sports ecology but be able to put it in real world terms and like easy practical strategies that i think is really like the highlight of this book so that's a huge factor right like easy practical easy to apply stuff making it in terms that people

understand you can't you know start talking about like some like i don't even know the damn theories anymore i'll be completely honest with you like if you show them to me a book I know what they would mean and why they're apply but I don't know the damn names of them right but people want to show the names and they want to cite everything and they want to do this and they do it that the athletes do not give a crap all I care about hey man how does this help me throw the fastball over the plate right that's all they care about how do I how do I hit I don't like throw this plate in the moment you throw individualized zones of optimal

functioning yeah eyes off today what yeah so it might sound like a banging on research but research is crucial like it's super super important because it allows us to take that understanding of that stuff and apply it so absolutely and i like what matt is saying below by the way josh he said the harder you work the luckier you get which is something we've talked about and then how results really matter and this is true right you have to you know as a practitioner you have to know this theory you have to know what you're doing works. But it's like, especially in pro sport, like, that's what's most important. The results that they get and that you help them get. So, you know, one thing that when I think

about this, like my journey, that's been really helpful. And maybe you can, you can tell me what you think about this. But one of the practices that I decided to end the book with is probably the practice that arguably is probably had the most impact in my life. And I talk about choosing your courage zone right here. And like my my description is like the world's best feel uncomfortable regularly. When we stay in our comfort zone, we don't grow. High performers know that the magic happens outside your comfort zone specifically i talk about when i did this thing in my community called dancing with the stars and it was right i know you know this but i had to i had to dance in front of 3 000 people like i'm not a runner not a hip-hop

dancer so i had to really choose my courage zone but here's kind of what i describe it's like your courage zone is like when you act with courage and bravery you play big you've done you do things you've never done before you you know that's where opportunity and hard work and self-discovery and high performance and pursuing your dreams actually happen and and like I talk about how I think few people really live there and the key is to do something every day that's scary. That's good. Yeah. And that's one of the things that I decided to do, I don't know, maybe two years ago, is like, can I do something every day that's scary?

And so for me, that's like start a podcast. For me, that's Facebook Live. For me, that's like write a freaking book. Right. Or, you know, let's see, write a freaking book or, you know, let's see, walk out on the football field for the first time. Right. And I think like, that's what we have to do when we, when we, when we experience fear is we, because like fear, I think is natural whenever we're trying something new, you know,

we're going to have that fear, but I think we can use courage instead. I like that. I think, you know, anytime we get scared about something, that's a good signal, right? That's a really good signal for you. Like, ooh, why am I getting scared of that thought? Why am I getting scared of that goal? Okay, I should probably go down that path because that one's a little scary to me.

You know, like that's a good thing. It's like I recently started doing, practicing jiu-jitsu, which basically means me on a mat getting pounded on by, like that's a good thing. It's like I recently started doing, practicing jiu-jitsu, which basically means me on a mat getting pounded on by like, you know, 175 to 210 pound men and women, right? And they just turn me into a pretzel butt. And I get like this pit in my stomach every time I turn up to the studio because it's like, oh my God, I'm gonna go in there and I'm gonna probably come out with a very,

my tendons are gonna be stretched, my nose might be broken, I'm gonna get embarrassed, I'm gonna get beat on and I'm gonna get exhausted. Awesome, let's go. Right, and so what I found which was amazing though is it actually helped me a ton in my work because here I was going every day and i was getting i was getting beat up beat up beat up beat up like in in spring training in arizona i went

uh 25 times over a five-week period so that's you know about four to five times a week over a six-week period so it's about four to five times a week i went to this this training facility and i would just get my ass kicked constantly by people who were 25, by people who were 45, by people who were 60, by women who were 120 pounds. I was just getting hammered. And there was a point probably halfway through and I'm like, this is so stupid.

I don't want to do this. I hate this. I hate this feeling. I hate this feeling. I hate this feeling. And it clicked for me. This has got to be what it feels like when a guy's in a slump.

This has to be what it feels like when a guy is stepping into the box and he's over his last 11 or over last 12, where he's just like, man, I don't want to do this today. I just want to get this over with. And so it was in that moment that I kind of realized, oh, okay, look, I can, I can relate this. Now I get it. Let me use all the tools that I've been telling these guys to start using. And then sure enough, really, really like, you know, I started getting better. I started being protecting myself. I started not getting tapped out every round. I started getting to the

point where maybe I was doing a reversal and getting on top of them. I started all of a sudden, my last round of the entire time that I was there, it was 25 times my last round last three minutes of class last 20 seconds of class last 10 seconds of class I got this guy was like six foot three maybe like 190 200 like lean grip about 26 years old and I reversed him I got him at a bar I got him at a Americana and I submitted him I tapped him the first person I tapped the entire time I was there was five weeks. And it was like three, two, one, they tapped.

You know, and then the bell went off and I was like, oh my God, I can't believe it. But it was like, but it was just in that moment, like I learned so much more about performance, right? So that's one of the other things I would say to practitioners is like, you gotta perform. Like you have to, like the best way to learn how to use these tools is to use them yourself.

And then the experience is back. So, you know, we know Bernie. Bernie goes on these like hundred mile runs. You obviously do tons of marathons. You know, for me, it's starting to become jiu jitsu where I get my ass kicked and I learn. Absolutely. Yeah. Because if we're not practicing what we preach, like how are we supposed to have, you know, the credibility. And I think what's important that you just said is that we don't have to work in the same. We don't have to do the activity in the same sport that we work in. No, but it's just like us being active and practicing these tools. So two things that you said, Josh, that were sweet. You said follow what scares you. That's something I talk about here and actually give you the tools and how to do that. But what tools did you use when you were talking about how you, you know, that you're thinking about the guys in the slump and what it felt like?

And then you started using the same tools that you use. What do you do? Yeah, well, I started visualizing. I started meditating before classes. I would take five minutes in the parking lot and just get my mind clear. I would set a purpose and an intention for that day. And it usually had nothing to do with results. It was more about a being. So it was, hey, I'm going to be, you know, I'm going to be in control of my emotions, right? I'm going to be just focused and present in the moment.

I'm not going to have a thought process about my ego. That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, I know one kind of final message that I want to provide people who are listening. What do you want to provide people who are listening? What's kind of a final message, Josh? I just, you know, it's always been the same message for me that, you know, like I know

through my life, I had a dream. My dream is to work in professional sports and sports psychology and help others. Right. And so when I was 30 years old like carrying you know three plates on my arm and serving wine to people that was probably the farthest thought that you could ever imagine i remember even going to you know grad school like i got into grad school and i'm like okay now i'm in grad school here we go and it was like you know i remember it was like week three and it was like oh yeah by the way there's no jobs in this field so you know you guys are

gonna have to work really hard even maybe research will in this field. So, you know, you guys are going to have to work really hard. Maybe research will be good for you guys. Or, you know, if you are going to work, try and work in this field, you know, maybe get an internship and figure it out from there. So, you know, that never deterred me. And, you know, I learned in my undergraduate, when I was taking my undergraduate degree, I learned from a professor who took sociology

and he had a phrase, it was fuck the facts. And I love that phrase because it's about, hey, it doesn't matter what's staring right in front of you. All that stuff, it's just an opinion. It's whatever. Yeah, sure, there's facts. There's not that many jobs in this field. Great, who cares, right?

So right now I'm also reading the book of the subtle art of not giving a fuck right so that's where my head is so my point is whatever you do you can go do it right but you have to really not care about you're going to get punched in the face a lot and you're going to fail and as soon as you stop caring about failing you'll start learning and as soon as you start learning you'll start growing as soon as you start growing you're going to get closer and closer and closer to that goal that seems like a ridiculous dream super cool so i would say similarly i had the same dream to work in pro sport right doesn't doesn't happen overnight but i think what's really important is i think that what we share in our

stories of just like creating it you know and you kind of said, I don't agree with that. You know, I think it's like you created it by becoming really, really good at what you do and then using your network. And, you know, and also I think I get really, really frustrated when people say like you can't. There's no jobs in this field. And I say, well, only, you know, look at all the people who are really successful. And I think it's growing more and more because more people are realizing that your mind is, is important to train. You make it happen. You make it happen.

So you got to take control of your destiny and make it happen. And I think that's what we're both, what we're about. Absolutely. Absolutely. Fist bump. Boom. Okay.

Well, you know, Josh, this is going on my podcast because it was a phenomenal interview and conversation. One of the things I like about the book, you can tell I'm super proud of it because I thought about, oh, my gosh, this took me like so. There's so many details in like writing a book. And I thought about every single one.

But one of my favorite things is at the end of every chapter, there's four things you can do to develop that that practice or that skill. And then it ends with the power phrase. So the power. Yeah. Love the phrase. Yeah, like how should you talk to yourself? And what can you say to yourself to emphasize that, the practice? And, you know, before I end with that, we've talked about so many cool things today.

We talked about beyond grit. We talked about why even the Cubs and other pro sports need grit. We talked about being in the present moment. We talked about following what scares you. And we talked about what you learned from joe madden which is patience and focusing on the process and so my my power phrase that i'm going to end with is i choose courage over fear i flex my courage muscle take a deep breath in and go for it so you can pick up your copy of beyond grit over at beyondgrit.com if you you are watching on Josh's page, you've got to check out. There's nobody watching on my page because you would have to promote it.

I'm such a loser. You will do it after this. Yes, I will. I will totally do it after this. Awesome. Perfect. Okay. Thank you, Josh.

For people that are watching, my Twitter handle, if you guys care, is at LiftRackAttack. So if you guys want to hit me up at LiftRackAttack, that's the best place to catch me on Twitter. Thanks, Sindra. Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you for being here. Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset. If you liked today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend, and join the conversation on Twitter at Mentally Underscore Strong. For more inspiration and to receive Sindra's free weekly videos, check out DrSindra.com.