High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 134: Heads Up Baseball 2 with Dr. Ken Ravizza, Educator, Professor, and Mental Game Legend

Episode Date: September 20, 2017

Dr. Ken Ravizza is back! In his second interview on the podcast, Ken talks about his new book and coaching program, Heads Up Baseball 2. Ken has spent over 40 years as a sport psychology educator, and over 20 years working in Major League Baseball, including most recently with the Chicago Cubs. In this interview, we talk about: Why today we need to be taught how to compete What he means by "working the mental game" His RAMP-C Concept from the book As a parent, what to do on the car ride home How Heads Up Baseball is not just for sport, but for life Joe Madden’s Respect 90 concept Find Ken on Twitter @KenRavizza1 and Cindra @Mentally_Strong. To get a copy of Ken's new book or join his coaching program, visit: HeadsUpBaseball2.com.

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is Sindra Kampoff, your host, and welcome. I'd like to welcome you to episode 133. Now, the goal of these interviews is to learn from the world's best leaders, athletes, coaches, and consultants all about the topic of mindset to help us reach our potential or be high performers in our field or sport.

In today's episode 133, I interviewed Dr. Ken Reviza. Now Ken, I interviewed him during episode 121 and it was the most listened to episode so far on the High Performance Mindset Podcast. Not a surprise. So I had him on again because there was such an amazing feedback. And in today's interview, we talked specifically about his new book, Heads Up Baseball 2. Now Heads Up Baseball 2, you can head over to the website headsupbaseball2.com. The book is now available along with a coaching program that Ken Reviza is hosting with his

co-author, Tom Hanson. So let me tell you a little bit about Ken Reviza is hosting with his co-author, Tom Hanson. So let me tell you a little bit about Ken Reviza. He was a professor for 40 years at Cal State Fullerton. He's worked 25 years in the mental game in Major League Baseball. Most notably, he has worked with Joe Maddon and the Cubs last year, who won the World Series. He's also worked in the mental game in eight Olympic games, five Summer Olympics, and three Winter Olympics. We talk about many different things on this podcast interview, which extends his interview from episode 121. Here's a few things we talk

about. We talk about how today athletes need to be taught how to compete and how we can help our athletes learn to compete. He says that we always need to keep taught how to compete and how we can help our athletes learn to compete. He says that we always need to keep on working on the mental game and describes that for us. He describes his ramp C concept from his book Heads Up Baseball in quite a bit of detail. As a parent, he talks about what we should talk about on the car ride home. And he gives actually me some advice as a parent, which I loved. He talks about how Heads Up Baseball is for life, not just for baseball. talk about on the car ride home. And he gives actually me some advice as a parent, which I loved. He talks about how heads up baseball is for life, not just for baseball.

And then he also talks about Joe Maddon's Respect 90 concept. So I think you're going to enjoy this interview. There are two quotes that are my favorite from this interview. The first one is this, self-control leads to body control. And my second favorite is this one. Each day you can take a step forward. You can remain the same or you can take a step backward. Failure can get you two steps forward. So if you enjoyed this episode, I'd encourage you to head over to Twitter. You can tag myself, mentally underscore strong. And Ken is at KenRevisa1. We'd love to hear from you. Love to hear what stood out to you about this interview

or just what you took from the interview. We'd love to hear from you. You could also, if you enjoyed this interview, share it with a friend by posting it on social media or sending them the link. And then as always, if you have a few minutes, you can head over to iTunes and provide a comment or rating. That would be incredible.

That would help us reach more and more people each week and keep these interviews free, like this amazing one from Ken Reviza. All right, so without further ado, let's bring on Ken. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast, Ken. I am excited to have you back again. And today we're talking about your new book Heads Up Baseball too. So yeah I'd first like just to welcome you. I'm grateful that you're back with us. Thank you and Cindra thank you for having me back. We had such a good time last time and as usual when you and I get talking you ask great questions and I just go on and on. And thank you for pulling all that information out of me. Of course.

And, you know, we've had such an amazing response from your podcast. That was a couple of months ago that, you know, it's like, why not dive into your book a little bit more and just really talk to the author. And one of the ways I described you, Ken, was like the legend. I think your book, Heads Up Baseball, the first edition, you know, the first version was just incredibly powerful in the world of sports psychology and mental training. So, and I have Heads Up Baseball 2 right in front of me. So I'm just looking forward to talking to you more about it and, you know, help people just learn more about the mental game from your perspective. Perfect. And let me say something, Sandra, up front about Heads Up Baseball 1.

Perfect. And that was the first book when we wrote it. We were really trying to write a sports-like book where we were going to talk about goal setting, imagery, relaxation, self-talk managing, and we were going to gear it to baseball. And then as we started doing the book, we ended up not doing that. And we ended up, instead of taking psychology and applying it to baseball, what we did is we looked at the mental aspects of the game coming out of baseball

and working from there. So what ended up happening is it went from a sports psych book to a baseball book. And some coaches shared that with us. They said, you know, guys, this is a baseball book more than a sports psychology book. And we were delighted to hear it because from my perspective, I think one of the things we've got to do when we're working on the mental game, sports psychology, is we've got to integrate it into the sport that the athlete is playing and put it into their vocabulary, their terminology, and let the information come out of their experience more than slapping this information on them.

So that's something I wanted to say up front. And Heads Up Baseball 2 also follows that path. But when we did Heads Up Baseball 2 also follows that path. But when we did Heads Up Baseball 1, that was 20 years ago, 1995 when we wrote it. I think there were two big things the book did. One was it really laid out the concept of one pitch at a time. And I don't care what your sport is, you got to do it one thing at a time. And I don't care what your sport is, you got to do it one thing at a time. And it really got into how to go about doing one thing at a time. Second thing it did is it really talked about routines and it talked about how

routines take place in the process. And you have to keep your attention on the process and not get caught up in the outcome. Because if you take care of the process, the outcome is going to take care of itself. So that's what Heads Up 1 did. And then 20 years later, with Heads Up 2, Sandra, that's where we looked at, okay, what's changed in 20 years? What has Tom and I learned from the coaches and athletes that we had the privilege to work with? And that's where the book took off from. So that's a long-winded explanation, but I had to start there because, as you know, I like to be long-winded. Well, we just take in your wisdom. So I appreciate, I appreciate

everything you can share with us. You know, one of the things I really liked about Heads Up Baseball one, and I also like about Heads Up Baseball two, it, you know, it does say baseball on the front, but what I found is like, you both just wrote an incredibly powerful sports ecology book that, you know, you can really apply to, to life and to any sport. So yeah, that's what I found. That was the other thing, Sandra, that got us even with the first book was how many parents contacted us and wrote letters and said, this book is helping my son or my daughter more in their personal life than it is their baseball or softball. I mean, that was startling for us.

And that's why in the second book, we have a whole chapter on heads up life, applying it to life. So we really put a chapter in for that because we got so much feedback on it. So, you know, as you listen to our conversation, I think what's really important for the listener is that obviously we're going to be talking about baseball here, but you can apply it to your life and you can, you can apply it to any sport. So if you're a coach or an athlete or a parent, you can apply it, everything we're talking about. Tell me a little bit more about why this book, you know, why this book right now? And was there, was there something that, you know, like a moment in time that you were like, yep, got to write this book, you know, and the co-author is Tom Hanson, which you wrote the

first book with. But, you know, can you describe that, Ken? What ended up happening is after 20 years, I really started to think, well, what have I learned in the last 20 years and what's changed? Now, at the same time, Cinder, as we've talked in the past, I spent 38 years as a university professor at Cal State Fullerton. So one thing I was able to see in my teaching tenure was I was able to see how the students changed from when I started teaching till when I retired two years ago. And they changed dramatically in terms of attention span, in terms of social media, in terms of just distractions that they have to deal with due to technology and the way we have to package things in terms of getting it across. Someone shared with me that today with young people, 80% of their reading

of books is on eBooks. 20% is an actual book. I mean, that's over under the age of 30, I believe. That's different than, you know, it was. So certain things have changed. And that was the motivation was what changed. And in talking with the coaches, the two big things that really I kept hearing from coaches was today, Ken, we have to teach athletes how to compete. 15 years ago, they knew how to compete. Maybe they didn't have the skill and all the techniques,

but they could compete because that's what they did as kids. Today we're travel ball, private instruction and all the rest. They do all of these things, but sometimes they don't get the opportunity to compete and play their game enough. And this is something I'm hearing across the board. And I go all over the country working with college coaches in various sports. And I hear this coming from a lot of them. And tied right into that,

Cedric, is the idea of the young athlete today doesn't know what it means to be on the team. And as I say that, it was ironic. Yesterday, I saw this small boy, probably 10 years old, and he had a Nike shirt on. And the Nike shirt said, play me or trade me. I just looked at that shirt and I scratched my head and I said, wow, play me or trade me? What about you're not playing because you're not good enough and what you have to do is get better? What about that you can be a member of a team, not be a starter, and you can still contribute to that team? And being on a team is also where you can appreciate a teammate's success. Maybe they do something special, and you can celebrate it with them, and you can embrace your role.

I mean, that part, and as I've gotten into that, along with the competition and with the college coaches, I'm hearing more and more about they need to learn to compete. They need to know what it means to be on a team those were the driving points for us with the new book oh super helpful so to really teach people how to compete and how to be a good teammate to take responsibility which i know something you talk about quite a bit in the book and you know that you know just the opposite of the play me trade me mentality you know like what can you right, just the opposite of the play me, trade me mentality, you know, like, what can you, how can you help the team? You know, one of the things you talk about, Ken,

is like this ramp C and the C is compete. So let's talk about like, as people are listening, they might be thinking, okay, well, you know, they agree because I agree with you, Ken, you know, it's like, well, let's talk about how we can as coaches, parents, or as sports psychology consultants, help teams and athletes actually get this drive to compete. And how do you think we can as coaches, parents, or as sports psychology consultants help teams and athletes actually get this drive to compete? And how do you think we can help them do that? Great question. And I think I'm just so glad, Sindra, that when you're talking, you're talking about coaches, athletes, and parents. Because I think the parental factor on this in this day and age is key, because the parent plays such a significant role in supporting their children. And as a parent,

I think where this emphasis on competing and learning how to compete and getting the lessons learned out of competition, that's where a parent's role can come into place in terms of, are they giving themselves the best opportunity to perform? Is your son or daughter working the mental game? And maybe there's things you're seeing that they're doing, like in baseball, they swing at a bad pitch, they get upset, they step out, they get themselves together a little bit, they get back in. And as a parent, you see that. You see them change their body language. You see them change their facial expression.

You can point out that thing they did in the process. Catch them doing that right. Praise them for that. Because just because they do that doesn't mean they're going to get a good result. But at least they gave themselves a chance. And I think this is so important. I think of one example, I was watching a friend's team practice, a little league team. And there was this one kid playing shortstop. And every time the ball came, he turned his head, he turned his head. So my friend who was coaching him with him really showed him how to watch the ball into his glove.

And what was interesting is the other coach was hitting him some balls. And the next ball comes. He keeps his head down. He bobbles the ball, makes an error, and then he gets upset. My friend pointed out to him, look, you kept your head down. That's what it's about. Just because you made the error, don't let that get in the way that you did the thing you were working on

by keeping the head down. And that's where for the parents, you can support your children on some of this stuff. So that we're working collaboratively with the coach, the parents, the athlete, and you're all on the same page. And the same page can be the process in how you go about it. So I want to say that up front, Cinder, because you talked about parents earlier, and I wanted to get that in there. That's important. Now back to your question of competing and ramp C. Yes, we need to compete.

And compete to me means give 100% of what you got to win the next pitch. Give 100% of what you got to win the next pitch. Now, that sounds great. How do I do that? Well, ramp C, R, responsibility. You have to take responsibility for his or her performance, then the only alternative that I see, Cinder, is you burn incense, you make sacrifices to the gods, and you hope the cosmic forces line up, but that may not happen. So we've got to be responsible. And by that, what I mean is you've got to control your reaction to what goes on around you. As I tell athletes all the time, you don't have control of what goes on around you. You only have control of what goes on around you you only have control of how you choose

to respond to it absolutely and with responsibility self-control leads to body control leads to skill control and that's my responsibility to be in control of myself before I try controlling my performance. And how do I know I'm in control of myself? Real simple. I can breathe, inhale, exhale. That's a pretty good check mark that you're in control of yourself is that I can take that nice, slow, steady breath. So responsibility is the key foundation that we start from. Absolutely. Love it, Ken. I love what you're talking about related to like how self-control leads to body control, leads to skill control. And it's really about like controlling your

reactions and the breath is one way to do that. Before we jump in more to, you know, ramp C in the different areas, one question I have is kind of related back to competing. And I'm thinking about maybe some of those parents, you know, we're talking about who may maybe they have son or daughter who is too, too competitive. I'll give you an example of my life. I have two boys, eight and 10. My oldest, my 10 year old is maybe too competitive that he always wants to win and always wants to so he won't do some things if he can't win. So what do you think about that? Because I think maybe there's the opposite too. Right. I mean, then he's just totally focused on results.

And I think what your mission as a parent is, is can you get him to focus on a little more of what it takes to win and where he needs to put his attention? Because as you and I both know, Sandra, what's going to happen eventually is he's going to reach the point where everyone around him is very, very good. And he's not going to be able to win all the time. That doesn't mean that he can't compete with a good positive attitude. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, if you look at baseball, it's really interesting. If you're batting at the bottom of the order and you're bat nine and you start hitting well, what do they do? They move you up in the order so that there's more expectations. What happens with our children today when they play well in league? They get moved up to an all-star team and then they do well on that all-star team.

They move up to the next one. And each level they go up, the competition gets more and more difficult. You're not going to just do it easy and everything's going to take care of itself. So they have to learn how to focus on the process and focus on what they need to do to get the end result instead of just focusing on the end result. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. So I'll have to keep you updated on how we progress with my son. And not only your older son, but how your younger son is doing with it. Yeah, he's like, he's totally chill with it. Like he's always focused on the process.

So let him focus on the right thing. And Sandra, let me say one other thing to you. Because see, my daughters are in their late 20s. And I went through where you're at. And I remember when my kids were the age of your children and they were playing in different t-ball leagues and other things and soccer and things that I would always talk to them about, you know, hey, give your best. That's all you can do.

You know, take one thing at a time. I even used to, when they were small, have them go through the relaxation and visualize their performance. They used to love doing that. And then when they got older, like, I mean, three years ago, I remember we were having a family discussion and both girls turned to me and said, dad, you didn't think we listened when you were talking as kids about all that stuff? I said, to be honest with you, no, I didn't. I thought you were, you know, blowing me off. And what's amazing for the parents is sometimes you talk and you wonder if your children are even listening to you. And all I could tell you is they may be listening more than you think.

They just can't let on to you that they are listening. Oh, that makes me feel really good, you know, that I'm listening to positive messages. And someday they'll be like, I remember when you said blank, mom. Yes, yes, definitely. Awesome. Appreciate that wisdom, Ken. so let's go back to ramp c and so we're talking about response okay okay so the responsibility leads to self-control the breath is really key what's the next step there the next step there is awareness so right once you take responsibility and you're accountable the next thing is you have to start being aware.

And being aware means that you're starting to recognize things so that you can do something about them before they start spinning out of control. I always talk, Sindhu, about the analogy that athletic performance and even life is like driving a car. You come to an intersection. If the light's green, you go. If the light's yellow, you got to attend to the intersection, assess what you want to do, check the rear view mirror for a cop, and then make your decision. What do most of us do? We speed up. What do most of us do in athletic performance when things start going a little sideways? We try harder. The game speeds up on us, no question.

And the third one is when the light's red, you got to stop. Now, that awareness is being able to recognize what happens to me when I start spinning out of control. What do I experience in my breathing? What do I experience in my body? What do I experience with the sweatiness in my hands? What do I experience with the tightness in my back? How do I experience some of that pressure, stress? Because we're going to have it. And then how does it affect my thinking? Do I get critical and judgmental? Do I lose my focus? By that I mean if you need a very broad focus, you're too narrow. If you need a narrow focus, you're too broad. Do I lose my ability to focus?

Do I get critical and judgmental of myself, my coaches, my teammates, other people? Or what happens in terms of my behavior? Do I speed up? Do I slow down dramatically? So I start recognizing for myself, and I can sort of tell where I'm at. The other side of the signal light in our awareness syndrome is what's going on in the situation we're in. What's being presented that's more stressful for me, that's more of a yellow light or a red light. And if you can anticipate it, you can be prepared with something to deal with it. And that's the awareness piece of the puzzle. No question. No question. I like that, Ken, in terms of, you know, like in Heads Up Baseball 1, you talked about the stoplight analogy. I think that's so incredibly helpful, you know, and I also like in your book, Heads Up Baseball 2, you talk about,

and you kind of have this, this hill, right, like this up and down series of hills, and, you know, just understanding that the game is not always like on a high, right, and we have to ride those waves or those hills up and down, and how increasing your awareness can help you do that so you know what happens and what your reaction is when you know you make an error and you're down or you get an out and then you know how can you ride it's about you call it the emotional roller coaster tell us about that and and how increasing our self-awareness can really help there i think that's what athletic performance is is It's not a flat, steady line. We want to try to make it more flat and steady, but there's highs and lows.

There's situations in any athletic event that test us, that challenge us. And that's where, for me, the mental game over all these years has gotten very messy. It's not clear. There's a lot of gray areas that one has to work through. Like even just with yourself, some days you feel great. Some days you have your best athletic performance. There's other days you don't feel good. You have your B game and there's some days you have your C game,

but you still have to perform. And by knowing yourself, you can at least recognizing, hey, I'm not where I need to be. This is what I have. This is my opportunity to work on. How do I get through this with what I got? Now, once again, this is something for the parents. If they can pick up with their child that, hey, his or her performance is a little off today, but they are really working to try to get the best out of it. They may not get their result, but as a parent, you can validate them for sure trying. That's definite. And that takes awareness and recognition because once I'm aware of it, I can start doing something about it.

And I like that you're emphasizing that we can help our kids become more self-aware. And like as parents, we can watch them as well. So we know what's going on, but emphasize and reinforce the process. Right. And that's kind of what you do. You know, helping them work to give their best effort, even if they don't have their A game today. Yeah. And Cindra, in relation to that, to the parents, you also have to recognize your son or daughter right after a game. It may not be the best time to talk to them. On the car ride home, I've heard from a lot of young athletes, for some, that's worse than the game because that's where they get interrogated by the parents. And sometimes what you need to do is just get yourself home make sure you stop for ice cream

even if you lose it's okay to have ice cream when you're a kid and then when you get home then you can have a time period where hey everyone's cooled down a little bit now we can talk about what happened out there and as a parent you can talk about some of the things you saw that they were doing where you caught them doing some things right. But I would really avoid with the parents, avoid the car ride home unless your son or daughter wants to talk about it on the car ride home. If they want to talk about it on the car ride home. If they want to talk about it, great. If they don't, wait till you get home and then that's where you have your chance to talk about it with them. And in terms of advice you could give for parents and how to talk about that, you know, I think it like the relationship you have with your son or daughter is really key. But then also the way that

you're talking about it, are you emphasizing outcome over process? Are you, you know, maybe even the tone that you talk about it? Like, you know, what advice do you have for parents in terms of how to have that conversation if they want to? I think asking them, how did it go today? Asking open-ended questions instead of closed question. It says, did you do good? Did you do bad? How many hits did you get?

You know, did you get any goals? No. How did the game go? What were some things you enjoyed about the game? What were some things that were hard in the game? What did you learn from the game today? Did you have fun? What was fun like for you?

Is fun, I mean, it's amazing. We say have fun. What does fun mean? Fun means so many different things to kids. One thing I know with athletes, you can have fun with a tear in your eye. Sometimes when you're trying to learn things, it's hard and tears may come,

but you're getting through it. That can be fun. It's fun in some sports, just dressing up and putting on the uniform. I always remember my youngest daughter when she was five years old, she was playing her first tee ball game. And it was probably five o'clock in the morning. She came into our bedroom, woke us up. She was in her full uniform at 5 a.m. and she turned on the light, said, I'm ready to go. I'll be in the living room. I'm ready for the game today. I mean, the kids love it, you know? And she loved the dressing up. She always did. Some of them like the getting dirty, you know, getting the scratch on the arm, getting the uniform dirty. Some like just in baseball, they like hitting the ball and just smashing the ball.

All the different things what they love about their play those would be things you can talk with your children about definitely yeah and then you're emphasizing what they're enjoying about it and you're i think sometimes coaches want to give so much instruction and talk about numbers maybe they're living vicariously through their through their child and And we know that's not helpful. So awesome. Ken, we've got responsibility awareness. Now the next kind of a part in this. The next one is mission. What's your purpose? What are you trying to do? Okay. And that ties right into what we were just talking about.

Why do you play the game? Play the game because it's fun and it's fun for a multitude of reasons. Okay. But that mission idea is also what am I working on today? What am I trying to do in this situation in the game? What's my plan? What's my purpose? And having a mission is so important when we do things. Having a mission for today's practice, having a mission for this drill, and for the coaches out there, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about because you have a practice plan and there's a purpose with everything that you're doing. And if there isn't, you need to figure out what it is so that you can explain that to the athletes you're working with and get them to buy into what you're trying to do.

Now, with responsibility, awareness, and mission, these things don't come easy. You have to work on them. I mean, it's not like I read this book. I read it one time, I put it on the bookshelf, I'm done. No, you got to go back, you got to revisit it, you got to re-examine it, you got to look at it. It's an ongoing journey, Cinder. That's just such a difficult point in this day and age because we're in a culture where young people want things quick. And in athletic performance, I'm sorry, but it doesn't come quick. You've got to do a lot of work. You've got to do a lot of preparation. leads to the final thing in ramp C, the preparation, the work that you do before performance,

the focus that you have. I mean, one thing that I see when I work with major league baseball players and especially being with the Cubs this year, the focus that those guys, not only on the field, but in the weight room, when they're getting physical therapy, when they're doing rehab exercises, how focused they are on what they're doing. One thing I know for sure, when a guy's doing his rehab exercises, it's not a time for me to be talking with him because he should be engaged and focused on what he's doing and that that focus that preparation is what leads to consistency of performance because the way i do my work the way i do my preparation that's the same thing i want to take into the game. That's what I want to compete with. It's not like,

and this always drives me crazy, the athlete who says, well, I really don't do it in practice. I'm a gamer. I bring it up in the game. Well, one thing I'll say to those young athletes is, well, I'm sorry, but you haven't played the stiff competition yet. And when you play competition where everyone's as good as you, that little approach doesn't work. You've got to do the work beforehand. You can say, I'm going to do what I do in my practice and my training. If you can do it there, then bring it to the performance. You don't have to go to the game and all of a sudden play the best I've ever played. No, no. Just do what you've been doing in your practice and training.

And Ken, what would you tell somebody who maybe is just kind of going through the motions? They're not really as committed to their preparation or they're not kind of locked in and the details. Great question. Because, for example, I go back to one of my daughters where she'd be in center field in softball picking the daisies.

You know? I mean, she just really wasn't into it. And she was playing to be with her friends and have the uniform, and that's what it was about. But there comes a point where, and this is especially true with the mental game stuff, the mental game isn't for everyone. I mean, the mental game comes into play when someone wants to get serious about their sport, when someone wants to take their game to the next level. Now, it doesn't mean that it becomes work and we don't have fun,

but it means you start doing everything you can to really try to be the best you can be. And that's where the focus really begins to intensify, but at the same time, we've got to keep the fun factor in it. Now, with the athlete that, well've got to keep the fun factor in it. You know? Now, with the athlete that, well, I'm really not into it, the question I ask them is, well, why do you play? And maybe you really don't want to play anymore.

And, Sandra, this is going to sound crazy, but I've talked a lot of athletes into maybe it's time to quit. Maybe you're done playing this sport. And that's okay. That's okay. Now, I also, when I'm with a college team, I will always talk to the coach. And I'll ask, how long do we have that they can quit? Because we don't want them to quit in the middle of the

season because that's not fair. But there's a point where at the start, hey, if you're not in, then don't do it. So that's what I would say to your question, Cinder, is, hey, if you're not getting motor in, well, why are you doing doing this and if you don't want to do it don't do it now that's a really good point if your why isn't clear and if you're unsure and then it's maybe there's something else that you know and maybe just even just talking to them about their why can help them just start their preparation and realize that they are just going through the motions yep and you make them aware of it where this really hit me, Sandra, was as a university professor. I spent my first 10 years teaching, spending a lot of time during my office

hours talking to students about whether they wanted to stay in school or drop out. And I tried so hard to get him to just persevere and stay in school. But you know what, Sandra? I wasn't good at talking students into staying in school. And I remember I had a friend that I was sharing this with, and he said, Ken, I got something for you. The next time a student comes in and asks you if they're about staying in school and they're not sure what they want to do, just tell them to drop out. I said, you're kidding me. No, tell them to drop out. I said, okay. And when they get up to leave your office and they open the door, remind them of these four words when they leave campus. Do you want fries? Because that's where you're going to be working. And if you're working there, after a while, you want to go back to school. And when you're in school because you want to be in school, it's easier to deal with the garbage that goes with school because there's always difficulties in everything we do.

And that helped me so much because when I stopped trying to tell and explain to the students what they should do Instead, challenge them with, well, quit. Well, I don't want to quit. Well, then stop dwelling on it and start getting a plan together in how you're going to make the most out of this. Yeah. One thing I hear you talking about is just helping them connect to their, like, intrinsic motivation, you know, like, what do they get out of it and why personally are they doing it?

Yes. Yeah. You know, one of the things i wanted to ask you can kind of going back up to mission and one part of your book i really liked is the section about mission and you said remember the elements of a mission so you said a clearly defined outcome a strong desire to make it happen not forcing it to happen or trying too much and then three links to the present moment tell us about that and like think it really connects with what we're talking about and and our purpose or our why you know why we do what we do I think I think the key like on goal setting for me and having a mission is you can have all the goals you want. But I think what really becomes important is today, today, today, today. What are you doing today?

What are you trying to get done today? And that it's so important, you know, when you go into practice, what are two things you're working on today? When you come out of practice, you take off your shoes. How did I do with are two things you're working on today? When you come out of practice, you take off your shoes. How did I do with those two things? I took two hours out of my life to learn today, or to practice. What did I learn from that? Now, do most athletes do that, Sandra? Absolutely not. No. But if you're really committed to what you're doing and you have passion and you have a mission, that's the type of stuff you have to do. You have to set those short-term goals for today.

And that even goes to if you're going to sit down and study for two hours what are you working on in the two hours write it down get it here's the direction this is where i'm going and then boom get into it get started get after it today today today let's go and um i just think that's that's huge that's also the stuff that carries over to life. Absolutely. That's the next thing I was going to ask you about. I think that today, today, today really helps you focus on the process, not the outcome, right?

Helps you like to work to get better. The next question I was going to ask you is about your section about Heads Up Baseball Life and tell us about like your favorite part in that section and what we can gain just by reading that part of your book the favorite part in that section for me is where I talk about my dad who was a plumber and I talk about as a kid how the thing that when I would work with him that he always emphasized was quality work only. And that if you're going to do something, do it right or don't do it.

And I used to hear that continuously and it used to drive me crazy. And at the same time, I learned so much from that because I learned about quality. I learned about process. I learned about you don't just go through the motions. I learned about attention to detail. Now, here's a small tidbit. Joe Madden, the manager of the Chicago Cubs, Joe and I have gone,

we started together in 1985 with the Angels. And we've been working baseball the last 25 years. And Joe's helped me so much with the mental game. And hopefully I've helped him a little bit with his job. But Joe's dad was a bummer as well. And Joe's dad, Joe worked with his father like I worked with his father. And at that time, those were the things that were emphasized. Joe said, my father always talked about quality work. I said, Joe, my dad did too. And that's the stuff that comes over in that chapter on Heads Up Baseball is the whole idea of these things we're

talking about today, today, today, attention to detail, taking one thing at a time, compensating and adjusting. Those are life skills. Those are skills, Sindra, in my university teaching, I taught stress management classes for the last 10 years that I taught. And in those classes, it was helping the students deal with their pressures and how they could use some of these skills to incorporate it into their lives. And then, of course, I think I've talked with you in the past, but I had, for the last 12 years of my teaching, I had students that graduated from the U.S. Military Academy at West Point. They served in Iraq or Afghanistan, and they came to Cal State Fullerton to do their master's degree in sports psychology with me. And we spent two years together, and I probably learned a heck of a lot more from them, Cindra, than they ever learned from me. But we talked about the mental skills. We got into them.

We studied them. We examined them. Because they were going from our program back to West Point, where at that university, they work with the mental skills as they relate to sport, as they relate to academics, and know, even the way you've talked about Joe Madden before, and the way you just talked about him now, it's like, you learn from Joe, Joe learns from you, you know, you learn from your students, they learn from you, you learn from your athletes, they learn from you. I like that, just that, you know, it's not taking this like, sort of like top down approach. And even in the foreword, Joe Madden, you know, he endorses the book and he says like, do simple better. So tell us a little bit about, you know, how you and Joe work together and what you think he means by do simple better. I think Joe's always just been fascinated because Joe really believed from the very beginning, when I first met Joe, he was a minor league manager. I think it was single A ball. And Joe always believed that you could teach mental toughness to athletes. But yes, some athletes have a gift for it more than others. But at the same time, you can teach some of these mental skills. And that's what pulled us together because Joe was an educator. He was a teacher and is a teacher. And that's the main bond that pulls us together. And when he came to the Cubs, he had a very young, talented team, young kids, very young age. And matter of fact,

his first year there, one of the things he said to me is he said, Ken, this is the closest I've ever come to coaching the college team because the kids were so young. And one of his major themes was do simple better. We're just going to do simple things and we're going to do them really, really well. And one of his first rules with the team was respect 90. Run hard from home plate to first base. You hit the ball, you run hard no matter what. And that's as basic as it gets. And for the coaches out there, in whatever sport you coach, what's your respect 90?

What's your thing that's the most important basic skill that you want to make sure your players are doing? I was just at a Division I basketball program this morning, working with their coaching staff. And I asked the coaches that, and the coaches basically in unison said, making the transition from offense to defense and running hard. And they said, because you have total control of that. And you can do that. And if you're doing that, you can be successful. And if you can get success and you get it going, then you can build on it. No question.

Oh, that's good. So thinking about what's most important, what's fundamental that, you know, that's focused on the process. Ken, why respect 90? What's the 90? And tell us a little bit about just that concept. Thank you. I should have clarified that, Sindra. Thank you for asking the question. Respect 90. It's 90 feet from home plate to first base. So you've got to run hard for 90 feet and you have total control. You can do that. So what's the most basic thing you need to do so that you can show you're playing the game the

right way? And each coach has to look at his or her sport and figure out what that basic skill is and reinforce that. Because executing that basic skill is going to be something to go to when the garbage hits your performance. And see, that's the thing in this syndrome. The mental game is so elaborate. It can be so simple at times, but it can be so complex that you have to be working on this on an ongoing basis. Because every day as an athlete, you take a step forward towards your dream, or you may remain the same, or you take a step back. And sometimes when you fail with your performance,

you can learn so much from it that you end up getting two steps forward from it. And that's what most people don't understand, is that it's a messy, muddy, ongoing journey through the mental game. I like that. I like in terms of like, it takes effort, it takes consistent effort, it takes intention. And let's say you read Heads Up Baseball 1 or Heads Up Baseball 2, you know, it doesn't mean that you got it, right? And I know on our podcast, you were talking quite a bit about like, oh, even the pro athletes, you know, they are continuously working on the mental game because it's not something we take a day off of. I don't take it off of my mental game.

You know, I'm always trying to improve my mindset and what I'm thinking about and my focus and, you know, my body language and, you know, working to be, you know, my best every single day. I think that's the same way with the mental game. And then, Cindra, it's the same thing. Here you are at this time. You've done what you did today. You went, you worked with the teams you're working with. You got this podcast in. When this podcast is done, Cindra, you're going to have to turn around and you're going to become mom for your two children. And you're going to be there with your husband and you're going to do the family scene. And it's going to be go,

go, go on a Friday night. You know, and that's what you're going to do. And that's where, when we talk about these things, these are life skills that we can use and we can incorporate. And that's where with Heads Up Baseball 2, when we first did this,

I thought we were going to bang this book out in one year. And then as Tom and I started working on it and we got into it and Tom would ask me questions, and I'll tell you, Tom Hanson can ask great questions and he gets you thinking and then you think about this you think about that you reverse your thinking here next thing it's four years later and the book isn't done but I'll tell you we really worked through it and there was one point Tom said to me, he said, Ken, you know, all the work you do, you go out, you talk to teams, but the only way people get access to you is if you're standing

in front of them. And in this day and age with social media, we have a chance not only to put this book up, but to help people and provide support in them learning the mental game. So one of the things we're doing is we're providing this free workshop. If you go to headsupbaseball2.com, we're providing this free workshop on the mental game. And then at the end of the workshop, basically what we're going to be doing is offering the book. But then also we're going to be offering a monthly thing that people can go into, ask us questions, get feedback, and do that. And at first I was hesitant to it. But then Tom really emphasized to me, he said, but Ken, if someone could get access and ask

you questions, wouldn't that be pretty good? And I said, yeah, that would be ideal. And I don't have to deal with an airport and I can be in my home. That's really good. And I think people are so eager to learn about the mental game. It's like you're offering a way for people to kind of tap into your wisdom. And you've been working in professional baseball 25 years you know I think it's a service that you're doing to help people just learn more about how this actually

works because I like what you're saying is that the mental game is gray it's not this like easy quick fix and you know it's like it's messy no it's hard because once again, it gets back to sport is hard because you have to perform. You can't make excuses. You have to go out and stand naked before the gods, fully exposed, like the Yankshin Creek said. And your actions count. That takes courage. And for the parents there, your son or daughter going out and competing in sport, it's a courageous act. Many of their friends, they just hide behind computer screens.

And if they play their video games, if the video game isn't going well, you just push the start over button. Well, when you go in sport, there's no start over button. You've got to persevere through the adversity. No question. So Ken, tell us a little bit about, so we can head over to headsupbaseball2.com and that you can participate in the workshop and that's where you can find out more information about the book. Tell us a little bit more because this whole time we've been talking about the book, right? So I think people

got a really good idea of the content in the book and tell us a little bit more about the workshop. Yeah. Like just the structure so that people kind of know what to expect. Head over to Heads Up Baseball 2. Well, what they're going to get in the workshop, Cinder, is they're going to get different interviews we're going to do with coaches, some of the things that Tom and I have discussed in the writing of the book, where we're going over some of these ideas, and just a chance to ask questions as a coach, as a teacher, as a parent. I'm not positive how it's going to play itself out, but I'm just excited about the potential. And we're going to see how it's going to go and if people like it. one thing that I insisted on and Tom and everyone else and Bob agree with, if people aren't satisfied with it, they can get their full refund for whatever the charges.

Amazing. If you're not getting your money's worth, hey, just say so. We'll send you a check. Not a problem. Amazing. Because I have that much confidence in what we're going to be talking about absolutely absolutely well Ken I just so appreciate your generosity every conversation I have with you you play out you play full out meaning like you are here to serve and to help people understand

the mental game and here are some things that I really took from the interview I love I loved our conversation about compete and how we can help athletes learn how to compete. And you said something in there about like, are you working the mental game? And I think that's important, because it's like, it's not something you can take the day off of. And you talked about how the mental game is gray, it's messy, but our performance can be kind of like this up and down hill, right? And the key is, is that we have a lot of highs and lows. And so using the RAMP-C, responsibility, awareness, mission, preparation, and then compete kind of helps us stay in control of ourselves. And then you said, you know, responsibility leads to self-control, which leads to body control, which leads to skill control. And we can use our breath to do that.

As always, I'm so grateful that you are joining us today. And you know what, Ken, last time what I did with your podcast is I transcribed it because it was so much value. And so you can head over to cindracampoff.com slash, we'll say, Heads Up Baseball 2 to get the transcript of today's interview. So, Ken, I'm just so grateful. Yeah, I'm so grateful that you are willing to share with us. No problem.

And, Cindra, you asked great questions, and I'll tell you, that summary you did of wrapping up one hour together, one of my regrets is I didn't get you as a graduate student. We would have had a blast together. You would have been great. Oh, well, I appreciate you saying that. That's like the highest compliment you can give me. Oh, gee. I don't know. But thanks for giving me a chance to get the information out there, Sindra. And for all the coaches out there, keep up the good work.

And for the athletes, keep being courageous. And for the parents, be patient and respect your children for the challenges they're taking on. Amazing. Amazing. Well, thank you, Ken.

And for those listening, head over to headsupbaseball2.com and check out what Ken's doing in the amazing offer. So thank you again so much, Ken. I really appreciate your time and effort. Okay. Take care. Bye-bye. Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset. If you liked today's podcast,

make a comment, share it with a friend, and join the conversation on Twitter at Mentally Underscore Strong. For more inspiration and to receive Sindra's free weekly videos, check out drsindra.com.