High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 160: Get a Strong Mind with Dr. Eric Bean, Certified Mental Performance Consultant

Episode Date: February 22, 2018

Dr. Eric Bean is the Director of High Performance for HigherEchelon, Inc. As a high performance and leadership consultant, Eric has worked with Army Special Forces, Navy SEALs, surgeons, business professionals, and athletes. After receiving his PhD, Eric worked with various Soldier populations, including Special Forces, intact infantry squads, and Wounded Warriors. Eric also created a comprehensive program for surgical and non-surgical residents at Madigan Army Medical Center. Following his work with the Army, Eric was recruited to work with the Navy SEALs at the Naval Special Warfare Center (NSWC) in Coronado, California. He provided mental skills training to Navy SEALs and candidates, as well as leadership development for the cadre. Dr. Bean is a Certified Mental Performance Consultant (AASP) and works with individuals and teams to strengthen their ability to lead others, maximize team functioning, perform at an elite level under high-pressure conditions, and maintain consistency despite changing circumstances. Eric is a published, peer-reviewed author who lives in San Diego with his wife, two young sons, and two dogs. In this interview, Eric shares with us: What separates the world’s best from the rest Why an understanding of self and our values is at the foundation of high performance The difference between meditation and mindfulness Why we need to separate self from our thoughts How to identify our mission statement and our shadow mission The difference between our absolute best and relative best You can contact Eric on Twitter at @GetaStrongMind and at www.GetAStrongMind.com You can find a full description of the Podcast and contact information for Eric at cindrakamphoff.com/eric.

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Sindra Kampoff, author of Beyond Grit, 10 Powerful Practices to Gain the High Performing Edge. And thank you so much for joining me for episode 160 with Dr. Eric Bean. Now, the goal of these interviews is to learn from the world's best leaders, athletes, coaches, and consultants all about the topic of mindset to help us reach our potential

or be high performers in our field or in our sport. Now I really enjoyed this interview with Dr. Eric Bean. He helped me really expand my thinking about a lot of different topics that we talked about related to high performance and I think that's the ultimate compliment from somebody who's working in the field, that he really provided a ton of value in this interview. I think you're going to really enjoy it. Now, Dr. Eric Bean is the director of high performance for Higher Echelon. And as a high performance and leadership consultant, he's worked with Army Special Forces, Navy SEALs, surgeons, business professionals, and athletes. Now, after receiving his PhD, he worked with Army Special Forces, Navy SEALs, surgeons, business professionals, and athletes. Now after receiving his PhD, he worked with various soldier populations such

as Special Forces and Wounded Warriors. He also created a comprehensive program for surgical and non-surgical residents, which is something that we talk about in this interview. Now following his work with the Army, he was recruited to work with the Navy SEALs in Coronado, California, where he provided mental skills training to Navy SEALs and cadets. He is a certified mental performance consultant and works with individuals and teams to strengthen their ability to lead others, maximize team functioning, perform at an elite level under high pressure conditions, and maintain consistency despite changing circumstances. He's also a published author who lives in San Diego. Sounds like an amazing place to live with his wife, two sons, and two dogs. And in this interview, Eric shares with

us a few of the components of high performance. He talks about what separates the world's best from the rest, the difference between meditation and mindfulness and why we should know the difference, why we need to separate ourself from our thoughts, why an understanding of ourself and our values is really at the core and the foundation of high performance. And he also talks about some cool concepts like mission statements and shadow mission and the difference between absolute best and your relative best. Two of my favorite things that he talks about in this interview is the importance of how high performance starts with leading yourself,

that you really need clarity of who you are, and then you need the self-regulation skills to help lead others. And then my second favorite thing that he talked about in this interview that I really liked was this difference between a mission statement and how he helps his clients develop that as well as this shadow mission, which is really about what we don't want to create. So I think you're going to really enjoy this interview. We'd encourage you to head over to Twitter and you can tell us what you think and join the conversation there. Eric is at Get A Strong Mind and I am at at Mentally Underscore Strong. Without further ado, let's bring on Eric.

Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. I am stoked today to be joined by Dr. Eric Bean. Eric, how are you doing today? I'm doing wonderful. How are you? I'm doing awesome. Thanks so much for joining us. So to kind of get us started, tell us a little bit about the work that you're doing at Higher Echelon and the other work that you're doing with Get a Strong Mind. Yeah. First of all, I appreciate you having me on. I've been listening to your podcast for some time and really enjoy the work that you guys do and feel honored to be on. So thank you

for that. Of course. Looking forward to having a conversation. Yeah, it's going to be good. The work that I do is pretty varied. So I kind of work in a couple different domains. I work with athletes on, you know, traditional kind of sports psych, high performance, and I work with individuals and teams in that domain. Then I work with organizations, so both government and public and private sector organizations on leadership development, high performance for their teammates or for the team members, engagement, and kind of looking at those two angles. So I really see, you know, those two main angles that I work in, which is kind of organizational high performance and then

sport high performance. Excellent. So we're going to be diving in to both of those organizational development and then the sport performance. So, you know, Eric, when you think about what you're most passionate about, how would you describe that? My passion really centers around high performance coupled with high enjoyment. I really don't think those two should be separate. So I aim to, you know, help people perform at their best in whatever domain, whether it's sport, leadership, military, surgery. And throughout that pursuit, I aim to help them enjoy it a little bit. You know, I got into this field through my passion for helping people

and my passion for sport. And so those two kind of combined. And then I realized that, you know, the mental game applies to far more than just sport. You know, I saw that in my work with the military. I saw that in my work with surgeons, with Navy SEALs, with business professionals. So that's kind of why I'm a little bit more broad instead of narrow in my approach to what I do. And you know, what I'm mostly looking forward to talking to you about, Eric, is just like these wide variety of experiences that you've had, if it's,

you know, with athletes, surgeons, Navy SEALs, special forces. So just, you know, kind of catch us up on, you know, if you could kind of briefly tell us where you got, you know, how do you get to where you are today in your career? It was a straight line with no deviations. No, just kidding. I know, don't we all wish that was the case? We do, we do. So really, my sort of journey started in high school, of all places, to start a journey. And I was on the high school golf team, you know, earning a lot of credibility with my fellow classmates. And I was in a state tournament, and we were playing, and I was in, I was in a state tournament and we were playing and I was playing great. I was really playing kind of some of the best golf I had been playing all year. And we're, we're walking from the 12th green. I just made a nice birdie walking from the 12th

green to the 13th tee. And a playing competitor says to me, wow, you're playing really great today. Is this the best you've ever played? And I said, no. And then I started thinking, you know, I said, oh man, I could, I could shoot even par. My teammates would put me on their shoulders, you know, chanting my name, B, B, B. And so my mind was just spinning. And my dad, who was my first sports psychologist, was there. I told him what was happening and he said that just ignore it just focus on this next shot in fact at the par 5 don't even hit driver hit a forearm get it in the fairway and try to make par and you know with my underdeveloped prefrontal cortex I completely ignored his good advice and ended up making a triple bogey a double bow you know I

kind of really limped my way in and shot my handicap. I shot what I'm capable of. And I remember thinking after that, like, what happened? You know, nothing in my skill level changed. The only thing that changed was my mind and what I was thinking about and what I was focusing on. And so that kind of started me down this path of trying to understand and better understand human behavior. And when I was at USC, I took the one class in my

junior year, I took the one class at USC that was related to sports psych. And I went all in after that. So after USC, I went and got my master's at Cal State Fullerton, my PhD in Michigan State. And then from there, I went to work with the Army and applying kind of the sports psych principles to, you standpoint at Madigan Army Medical Center. We piloted that program with one specialty, and it's now hospital-wide and something that almost every specialty goes through as part of their resident training as a surgeon or emergency physician. So I did a lot of work there. Then I came down here to San Diego to work with the Navy SEALs, working both with the cadre and with the candidates on, you know,

kind of with the cadre I was trying to add a little bit more to their toolkits besides carrot and stick. As you can imagine, it was a lot of stick. And after that, I went internal to an organization, went internal to UCSD Health, worked mostly in leadership development. And now I'm an external consultant with Higher Echelon doing leadership development and high performance coaching. Fascinating journey. And for those people who aren't in sports psych, you studied with some pretty kick butt people at you know, at Fullerton.

And I probably shouldn't say pretty, like outstandingly kick butt people. And then at Michigan State. So great training. And, you know, what I was just thinking about when you're describing like your experience in a high school golfer, you know, it's like your attention became so outcome focused and not in the present moment you know what did what did you do to learn more about your mind at that point and like what was happening to you or what did happen to you well you know one of the one of the first things I did was was uh I I got Bob Rotella is kind of a huge sports psych person in the world of golf. And so golf is not a game of perfect.

And I started reading that and got a little bit of exposure to understanding how much the mind influences behavior. And I realized after that moment that I can't just focus on my game. I can't on my physical game, my tactical game. I have to put some energy and emphasis into the mental game. And I wish I, you know, had known that before then, but we don't always get what we want, but we get what we need. Nice, nice. And I love how Barbara Tella introduced you to the field of sports psychology. It's a good one to start with, right? Yeah, for sure, for sure. So before we kind of dive into your experience so far, you know,

with Navy SEALs or surgeons and athletes, special forces, tell us about a story that you failed, Eric, and what you learned from it and what we can learn from it. Failed? I haven't failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. Nice. Nice. There you go. That's a little quote for you there. So yeah, I mean, you know, I've had quite a few and I love this conversation because I think that far too often we avoid talking about failures. We avoid talking about what went wrong or what's not right or negative thoughts or those types of things. I think these are great conversations to have. And I'm happy to share one of many. We don't have all day here. So, you know, earlier in my career,

I, you know, kind of allowed my enthusiasm and passion to overshadow the need to be patient. So I was working with a high level junior tennis player, and he was really struggling with inconsistency. Great player, you know, just could not put it together for an entire match. So I had all the solutions, you know, we're going to solve pre and post shot routines, we're going to work on his focus, adapt his goal setting approach, focus more on process goals and outcome goals. And oh, and we're going to do some visualization. And we were going to do all this in the first session. And so you can imagine what happens next, right?

He goes out and he's a mental mess and just didn't know what to do, you know, was unsure of himself and it affected his tennis performance. And, you know, do no harm was not exactly what I did there. And so one of the things that I learned from that is you have to be patient in the process. Changing behavior, which is one of the things that we're really after, takes time. And while installing those skills, so to speak, and changing those behaviors may have been a solution,

I needed to be a little bit more patient in getting there. So that was a big lesson for me. And the next lesson really was that, and I learned from that was, my job isn't to give them all of the answers. My answer, so to speak, may have been the right ones, and they may have really worked. But my job isn't really to give them the answers, it's to guide them to discovering their own answers, and helping them figure out what's going to work for them. A colleague and friend says, you know you best. So that was something that I just, I didn't have that knowledge at that time. And that experience, that failure really, really was eye-opening for me to find a new way to be more patient and ask more questions than give answers.

Yeah. And I like what you said about changing behavior takes time and that we can't expect it's going to be immediate. You know, I had, Erica had a similar failure where somebody came to me that I worked with the day before her diving competition or like state competition. And, you know, I thought how I learned more about what was going on, but I did overwhelm her. I gave her too much. Right. And it didn't help her the next day. So, you know, what I learned really from that as well is just being patient with my work and, and not overloading somebody, you know, because you want to help because,

you know, it might just be one, one thing that you could provide them that could good really make a difference. So I appreciate you sharing that story. I've been in that situation. I've, I've learned now to, to turn people away. If it's the day of or the night before a big competition, great. Do what you do, you know, work hard, stay present and let's talk tomorrow. You know, let's talk after let's, let's work on this stuff after. Yeah. And it's not a bandaid. So I like what you said about changing behavior takes time.

And we also need to be patient with each other, right? You know, we're patient with ourselves if we're trying to change behavior. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, nice, nice. So let's dive into your work a little bit more. And by the way, I appreciate you just being vulnerable with that. And, you know, the reason I asked you that is because I do think that we can learn about, learn a lot from other people's failures.

And sometimes I think we hear of all these, you know, great things people are doing and how educated they are and these great experiences with all these various people that you've already mentioned. But, you know, you're human too. Yeah, and I think it's, you know, a uh element of our culture right now we don't see a whole lot of failures on facebook and instagram and snapchat you know we see a lot of success and a lot of uh curated lives uh the curated elements of each other's lives so i think it's really important to to do this and have that kind of discussion and as you said be vulnerable with

it for sure you know i just think about the variety of people that you've worked with, Eric, you know, we've already kind of mentioned some of them, but if it's Army, Special Forces, Navy SEALs, surgeons, athletes, what do you think just generally separates those that are high performers compared to the rest of the people? Or what do you think separates those who can really rise to the occasion? To me, it comes down to clarity of purpose and then a powerful and deep conviction within that purpose. So when somebody lacks conviction or clarity, clarity or conviction on their values and values and principles,

then they're likely going to lack consistency in their behaviors. And one thing we know about excellence, Aristotle, we know that excellence is not an act, it's a habit. So I find that developing high performance habits are a lot easier when you have a strong and rich understanding of who you are, what makes you tick, what stresses you out, how do you respond to stress? What are the most frequent emotions that you experience, what are your values, and so on. So for me, one of the things that I see that separates some of the world's best when it comes to performers or leaders or entrepreneurs is that clarity of who they are and that conviction to not waver from who they are, regardless of the environment,

regardless of what people are doing around them and regardless of the situation. So the clarity of who they are, not waiving from who they are in those moments or just in any moment. And, and, and in, in the darkness too, a story that I'll share with you when I was working with the Navy SEALs, they put an emphasis on team. You have to be team first.

If you're an individual performer but you suck at being a teammate, you're out. If you're a great teammate and you suck at individual performance, you're out. They want the best of both. And when I was there, there was a, a Navy SEAL who, or I'm sorry, a candidate who was struggling with a four mile run, basically in boots on sand. And he was really struggling with this, with this run and could not, could not pass, you know, pass it, pass the timed event. And so they said, sorry, you got to go.

And so he rings the bell and he drops and he's out. And later that afternoon, they find him cleaning one of the vehicles. And they go up to him and they say, what are you doing, man? You're out. You got to go. And he said, I know, I know. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I just, this was my assignment on my team. And I know that if I don't do it, somebody else is going to have to do extra work and pick up the slack. And so I just want to get this done for them. Let me finish this and then I'll be out of there. What do you think they did? They found a way to get him back in. They worked with him to pass that four mile test. And that was the only thing that he wasn't passing. That's the only thing he wasn't excelling at. And that,

that young man just finished his first tour as a Navy SEAL. Wow. So talk about in that kind of dark moment, the thing you wanted most in your life is taken away from you. And did he lose conviction on his values and who he is at his core? No, he acted on it. Really good. So he had a clear understanding of who he was, even in the tough moment when he got cut, right? Yeah. And part of his values and his identity set is, you know, service, service to others and service to his team. And so he allowed that, that he lived that value as he does without question and without,

you know, needing to be asked to do it. He just did it because that's who he is. So Eric, when you think about helping people, you know, in terms of getting clarity of who they are and not wavering from who they are and even in the darkness, being who they are, you know, what do you think is the first step? How do we do that? The first step for me is really taking a long look at your values and so so so the way that this works for me is is you know starting with with values and look I think you start with with the with with the values that you want to have so who do you what are the values that you think you have and that you think you're living and and so you get a good clarity on these values and then examine the gap between your values and your actual behaviors. What you do is a better predictor of your values than what

you say. So what I work with people to do is kind of identify that gap. Where are their action inconsistencies? Where there's a lack of integrity between what you talk about and what you actually do? Where are their symbolic inconsistencies, where what you say, you know, the symbols around you are inconsistent with what you say you value? So you preach professionalism, but, you know, you show up and you're, you know, you forgot your cleats at home or you show up and you don't have all the equipment that you need. So that's kind of a symbolic inconsistency. And then an ideological inconsistency is where there's incongruence between the ethical standards you promote and your actions as well. So we do this audit, and then we get some really strong clarity around the behaviors

that you engage in that are not in support of your values. And then we can uncover what is driving those behaviors, what old or outdated rules that you live by are driving those behaviors. So once we get some clarity on that, then we can start to establish and live by some new rules. So the way that you approach it is helping people understand their values, the gap between where their values, where they say they want versus what they're actually doing, and then helping people update their rules. Is that how, is that a good summary? Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Give us an example of like a rule, you know, like how would you define that and what do you think that means? So, you know, think of like some of the rules

that you have in your life from that you, that you got from your parents. You know, one of the, one of the rules that a lot of people have is, you know, the golden rule, so to speak, right? Yeah. Treat others how you want to be treated. And, you know, what you might find is that rule is actually a little outdated. Really, the better rule is to treat others how they want to be treated. And that requires some presence in the moment on the other person and being willing to ask them questions and do those sort of things and get out of your own head. You know, another rule kind of thing is that a lot of people live by is that, or that may have is anxiety is bad. Anxiety leads to poor performance.

And so they live their life trying to reduce and eliminate all anxiety. And what we might find and what we do find is that anxiety has a lot of value to performance. And so when we can help them help shift that kind of rule, so to speak, when we go from this old outdated rule that anxiety is bad to anxiety or nervousness can be useful, then that can help shape and change some of the behaviors that were wrapped around the axle with that other and old outdated rule. Absolutely. So that our actual behavior is more aligned with our values that we want to live by. Yeah. You know, I know when we talked earlier, Eric, we are talking about how leadership is a performance and how, you know, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about how

clarity of who you are, not wavering from who you are, even in the darkness is really about leadership, right? Leading yourself and how strong leaders do that. And they, you know, I think about people that I have in mind and it doesn't matter who, where they are or, you know, who they're around, they're going to be their authentic self, right? They're going to be who they are. So tell us what you mean by, you know, leadership is a performance. I think that leadership is a performance because it's about how you show up to leadership. Leadership has, in my opinion, it has less to do with what you actually do and who you are. And I think that's the same thing for an athletic performance. You have to be talented. You have to execute the physical skills in the right way.

But skill alone is not enough to achieve greatness, to achieve the high goals that we're going after. I think the same thing with leadership is that it starts with, and you said it perfectly, starts with leading self. You know, do you have clarity and conviction about who you are and what you're after? And then do you have the ability to self-regulate when it comes to your own motivation, your own attitude, your own attention. And if you can do that, then you can help others do the same thing. So I think it starts with leading self and being able to manage your energy, your attention, and your attitude in order to be able to help others manage

their attention, their energy, and their attitude. I was working with a colonel one time in the army and she said, she said, leaders can't have a bad day. And I've, I've brought this story up with a number of groups that I work with. A lot of people resist that, that thought. And, and, and the reality is, is that leaders are human too. Like we're going to have good days and we're going to have bad days, but just like a performer in the Olympics, you can't allow a bad day or a bad mindset

to interfere with your attempt at earning a gold. You can't say, hey, today's not a good day for me to do the luge. I'm not feeling great today. I'm going to come back tomorrow. So you've got to figure out a way to kind of rise up, so to speak, to the challenge, regardless of how you're feeling. And so that was her point really about leaders can't have a bad day. If you're in a bad mood and if you're if you're not having a great day, if you had some challenges at home, if your, you know, son woke you up in the middle of the night, all those things, you've still got to go to work and perform. So what psychological skills

are you going to leverage to be able to do that regardless of how you feel that day? And that's the self-regulation part, right? Right. How are you regulating yourself? So when you think about, you know, the work that you've done with leaders, tell us about maybe some of the psychological skills that you use and that you teach within that self-regulation piece that you're right. Like I have to be at my best today, regardless of how I feel. You know, I think we can use that as an excuse. I just feel crappy today. You know, my legs hurt, my stomach hurts, right? Instead of just taking full responsibility. And I go back to kind of what you said in terms of

clarity of who you are, what your values are, and that helps you show up. But what would you tell us in terms of the self-regulation skills or the mental skills we can use? One of the areas that I start with when it comes to self-regulation is building some awareness. Of course, you know, I'm really high on self-awareness. But so a tool that I use quite a bit is meditation and mindfulness. And I view those as separate things, which I'll explain in a second. But the practice of mindful meditation allows somebody to build self-awareness of the thoughts that typically come in

and the thoughts that may interfere with their performance. So mindfulness meditation can give them the space between the stimulus and the response, as Michael Gervais often talks about, but that space to recognize that just because I'm having this thought, I don't feel good, today's a crappy day, You know, I didn't get any sleep. Just because I'm having that thought doesn't mean that I need to act on it. So mindful meditation is, in my view, is a self-regulation tool because it generates that skill. And that skill is being able to separate yourself from the thought. I may feel angry, but I am not angry. So I can separate those two things. And then once I have that separation, I can choose how I want to act and be. And then I use my, you know, leadership

philosophy or, you know, purpose statement to be able to choose how to act and be in that moment. So separate yourself from the thought. That to me means like, if I'm thinking, for example, I'm going to have a crappy day, right? I might think, well, I am crappy, right? Tell us more about like, what do you mean by separate self from the thought and how do you do that? So one of the tools that you do, you separate, so you have that right on. So I can have, I can have the thought of, you know, I am angry, but I can separate the behaviors that often are associated with anger. I can separate my actions from that thought. So I can have the thought of, I am angry, and then choose to take a deep breath and say, I understand your point, blah, blah, blah, and choose what I want to do in that moment rather than allowing the anger to choose for me.

So, you know, the mindfulness piece there is there's an element of mindfulness, which is acceptance. And that is accepting that the thought is just that. It's a transient piece of data that I can choose to attend to and attach to, or choose to not attend to and attach to. And so mindfulness, when we engage in the practice of mindfulness and meditation, we get kind of these mental reps, so to speak, at having a thought come in and allowing it to pass through our, our attentional field, so to speak, and then having another thought come in and allowing that one to pass through without attaching to it and following the thought to see where it goes.

Just letting it pass by. Yeah. Right. So yeah, when you think about like, you know, how would you, as people are listening and wrapping their brain around what you're saying, you know, what would you say in terms of like, we could talk about this for three hours, I'm sure. But like, you know, how do you, what's the first step if people wanted to do more mindfulness meditation?

What would you tell them to do? Or is there a resource or, you know, something that you find is helpful in terms of providing to people? So the beauty of the time that we're living in is that, is that mindfulness is, you know, exploded in popularity and meditation has kind of come along with it. There's still a little stigma around meditation. There's less around mindfulness. So what I would recommend is there are hundreds, probably more than that, of apps around guided meditation

and guided mindfulness. One that I really enjoy is Headspace. So what I've found is that there's, there's kind of two avenues into this that I recommend to people. The first is, is go with guided meditation. I think we have this kind of this monkey mind that is all over the place if we allow it to be all over the place. And guided meditation helps steer you back when you lose, when you lose focus, when you lose track, when you find yourself deep into a thought pattern. Guided meditation can bring you back. So I found a lot of value in guided meditation through Headspace. And then the other path that I would recommend if people

don't want to download an app or trying to get away from technology and find time to meditate without technology would be single point meditation. And that would be anchoring your attention on your breath. And one of the things that I encourage people to do is anchor their attention from the start of the inhale to the end, to the finish, to the end of the exhale. And that takes some attention. That takes some practice. And the last thing I would recommend is have some self-compassion. Meditation and mindfulness isn't about a completely quieted mind or silent mind.

It's about the practice, the practice of having a thought come in and not attaching to it and not fixating on it. So you're going to get distracted. Your mind is going to wander. And as soon as you catch it, get it back to your breath. And think of that and reward yourself by thinking of that as a mental rep. I just got a little bit stronger because I caught my attention wandering and I got it back to, you know, the single point that I'm focusing on, my breath. So Eric, love it. So what's, you know, just generally people's response when you're going out and doing training or, you know, some of the work that you've developed with the Navy SEALs or the surgeons? You know, how do they respond to this idea of, you know, mindfulness or meditation, right? Because

they're two separate things. What do you see in terms of trends or people, you know, because of the popularity, like more accepting it, more likely to use the practice? I've seen both. So with Navy SEALs and with surgeons, there is an early kind of an initial resistance because the idea of doing nothing doesn't really land well. It doesn't really land well with people that are high achievers and are very driven. And so one of the things that I have to do is kind of build the case around how this will help them be better when they're doing something. You know, when they're trying to overcome an obstacle in the obstacle course or when they're, you know, in a surgery and there is kind of the avenue that I start with to convince them. When I'm working with leaders and people in the business world, there's a bombardment of data. I mean, there's stuff coming into their lives at all moments of every day, pretty much.

You know, they have trouble getting away. And so when I invite them to take five minutes, 10 minutes, whenever it is just as a step into this, they get pretty excited about that idea of shutting down. They struggle with it at first because they're not used to shutting down. They're used to being go, go, go all the time. So once they get into it, they have their first experience with it, which I usually take them through in a session that, you know,

leadership session, then they see the value in it pretty quickly, even without the science to support it. And what about, you know, your work with your company, Get a Strong Mind and athletes, how do you see that they've responded? Because, you know, I'm just thinking about my work with elite athletes and even college athletes where I have some that are super into it, right? One of the athletes, NFL athletes I worked with actually was using Headspace. But what are the athletes that you work with?

How do they respond? It varies by sport, of course. I understand that that's a bit of a cop-out. The responses I've seen have ranged from people that are really into it. One of the things that has helped me with kind of building my case around this is separating mindfulness from meditation. And even though mindfulness is really a form of meditation, you know, meditation is this big umbrella term

and mindfulness is a form of meditation. Athletes can get into and do get into and buy into the concept of being present and absorbed in the moment. And so mindfulness, if I go down that path of, I want to help you be more present and more absorbed in the moment that you're in to be able to execute your skill, your craft at the height of your ability. That right there is, okay, I can get into that. I can buy into that. You know, sitting cross-legged with my, you know, hands on my knees and saying, oh, they don't really get into that. I can buy into that. You know, sitting cross-legged with my, you know,

hands on my knees and saying, oh, they don't really get into that. So, so it's, for me, it's really the avenue that I go there. So then with athletes, I start with, you know, mindful actions, mindful behaviors that they engage in. Mindful, you know, we do a mindful eating exercise. I do, if I'm playing with a baseball player, mindful catching exercise. So that they can experience the feelings and the emotion and the attitude around being fully present. And then one of the things that we do in this exercise is let me know when your mind wanders from this activity. And usually within the first minute, it wanders. And so then we talk about the importance of being able to keep, you know,

being able to manage your attention for longer periods of time. And the way to do that is through practicing mindfulness. And so then I go down that path that generates that buy-in and that opens the door for mindfulness practice. I usually won't use the term mind meditation, but I'll stay with mindfulness practice. I usually won't use the term meditation, but I'll stay with mindfulness practice. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and so we're really talking about broadly how leadership is a performance and how the best know themselves so they can lead themselves and they use, you know, self-regulation tools, which is really what you're describing is meditation. Mindfulness is an example of self-regulation. So Eric, if I go back up to kind of this bigger idea of leadership

is performance. Tell us about how you might, you know, help people develop a understanding of themselves in terms of like a philosophy. I think, I think you call it like philosophy of excellence. Tell us about that and, and how you think that's important to helping us be, you know, lead as, as, as a performer. Yeah, this is one of my go-to kind of signature techniques that I, that I work with, with leaders and with athletes as well. I've had great success with this, and that is working with them to

develop a mission statement, a mission statement that encompasses their philosophy of excellence or their leadership philosophy. So a philosophy, in my mind, a philosophy of excellence is a clear and concise statement that reflects your values and principles that guide and drive your actions in pursuit of your mission. So I want those two things to be connected. The values and principles that are going to drive the actions to achieve the mission that I'm after. So a mission for me is what kind of world, small w, what kind of world do you want to have around you? What's important to have in your world? So for example, I create a world of meaning, connection, and freedom. That's the world that I'm looking for, meaning, connection, and freedom

by learning, growing, helping others, being present, and having fun. So if I'm engaging in my values through those behaviors, learning, growing, helping others, et cetera, then I will create the world that I seek. So I start there. I get them to real strong clarity. And I do this in a number of different ways. But I start there with getting real strong clarity of their leadership philosophy and their mission, what their world they're trying to build. And while I think that's really critical, I also work with individuals to create a shadow mission. And when there is light, there is also dark. So shadow mission for me, it gives us the opportunity to examine the values and behaviors that will generate a world we don't want to live in. So this is a way to examine when there's chaos in my life, when I'm feeling out of sorts, I look to my shadow mission to examine what behaviors am I engaging in that are generating this darkness. So a client of mine's shadow mission is, you know, I create a non-eventful world of chaos and disharmony

by being seclusive, disinterested, and oblivious to people around me. This is a guy, a client of mine who, when we started working together, he was working 90 hours a week. I, you know, Sandra, I didn't even know there was 90 hours in a week. And yeah, what does that mean? How many hours are you working? Is that like a 12 hour day? I don't know. I can't do math. Right there. So he's working 90 hours a week. And he's, you know, as you can imagine, one of his goals was work-life balance. And so through his shadow mission, you can sort of see how he, and there's a number of other elements that are influencing his decision to work 90 hours. But you can see that when he's seclusive, disinterested and oblivious

to people around him, he's going to create a world of chaos and disharmony. And usually, those are the weeks where he's working 90 hours. He doesn't do that anymore. But so that gives him this kind of left and right framework of, you know, this is what I'm after. This is my mission and the philosophy that's going to guide it. I have to be aware of the shadow mission, what I don't want to create and what are the behaviors that I engage in that will create that darkness that I'm trying to avoid. I like the power of that, Eric, because I think about how we're motivated towards something and then away from something and getting really clear on how we don't want to show up and kind of the shadow side of, of what our mission is. Can you give us maybe another example or how, you know,

understanding someone's shadow side has helped them? I go back to kind of what you said in terms of kind of showing up as themselves and being really clear on who they are and not wavering from that. One of the, well, I did this with a Navy SEAL candidate and, you know, elements of his philosophy and mission centered around a fire that he has within him and the fire and the purpose of that fire is to serve others and to challenge himself and put himself in difficult situations. And his shadow mission was around quitting. It was centered around quitting and it was centered around being selfish. And so when he found himself or when he finds himself thinking about himself first, when he finds himself pondering the act of quitting, or even when he quits at something, which he doesn't do

very often, but when he goes down that path, he kind of has a visualization of that fire within him getting dimmer. So that sort of gives him that motivation, as you talked about, a motivation of how he wants to show up and it's connected to his values and his purpose. So how would you tell us to find our shadow mission or reflect on it? Yeah, I think the first thing that you do is you start with your mission and your philosophy. And you really start with what you want. And from there, you don't do opposites.

Okay, so I create a world of not meaning, you know, you don't do opposites. But you think about when are you at your worst? What is going on in your world when you're at your worst? Are you isolated? Are you selfish? Are you surrendering to apathy? Are you being self-limiting? What are you at your worst? And then the behaviors that you engage in at your worst, what is your world around you look like? People are angry at me. I'm unfocused. I don't feel strong. I'm alone. And that, so you start there. And I think that'll allow you to create this shadow mission of if I engage in these behaviors, you know, surrendering

to apathy, quitting, manipulating others, then I will create a world that I don't want. And that world will look like, you know, aimlessness, disempowerment, isolation, et cetera. So that's where I'd begin. I'd start with creating that mission and philosophy of your, of what you want, and then thinking about what you're like at your worst and what are the behaviors that are associated with you when you're at your worst and what kind of world does that create around you? I think that you're giving people a lot to think about, like in terms of really great practice to help them learn more about themselves. So I appreciate that. Eric, yeah, when you think about how leadership as performance and even,

you know, some of the topics we've talked about, mission statement and shadow mission, was that some of the content that you use when you develop the program for surgeons? Or tell us how, you know, how what we've been talking about so far is maybe similar or different to what you did with them. Yeah, there's elements that overlap. I think the surgeons, when I was working with them, I was really focused focused initially focused on the surgical residents I worked a little bit with the leadership but at first I was just focused on the surgical residents and so the program that we created was centered around performance so performance in the OR or you know I also worked with emergency physicians in the ER and examining the elements of that

environment and how that environment influences their mental state and their performance. So one of the things that, you know, working with emergency physicians that I quickly came to realize was that their working memory is overloaded. So working memory is this kind of active state of information, whether information from the immediate external environment or information that we pulled up from our long-term memory. And, you know, when your working memory is overloaded, you make mistakes. So we work to create and install sort of mental skills, one being pre-performance routine. What's the routine that you have when you walk into a room to get the history of a patient, right? Because if you

walk into that room with your mind thinking about, you know, the labs for this patient and, you know, my attending said this to me and gave me this negative feedback and I've got to go do this later on, you're going to be distracted and you're not going to be at your best self. So establishing a pre-patient routine, so to speak, was one of the tools that we worked with emergency physicians on. And then if I would jump over to the leadership, I could talk a little bit about that piece as well with the surgeons. That one, you know, that one I kind of backed into. My intention and focus initially was working with the surgical residents on their mental game, and I quickly realized how much of an impact

their leadership were having on their mental game. So, for example, I did a – it's called the TAISE, the Test of Attentional Interpersonal Strategies. And I had all the surgical residents take that. And one of the resident directors said to me, I'd like to take that. I'd like to learn a little bit more about myself and get some coaching from you. So I said, sure. So he takes the TAISE.

I show up at his office. And he's in kind of street clothes. And he's moving stuff around his office. And he says, oh, is this our meeting time? And I said, yeah, I've got some flexibility if you need another couple of minutes. I said, what are you doing? And he says, I'm getting my office ready to be painted. I said, oh, okay. If somebody from facilities coming over to paint your office and he looked at me like I was crazy and he said, no, I'm going to paint it myself. So I just kind of stored that away with what I had already known about his results on the tase and we go into this meeting and and one of the things that that showed up on his tase was

really high need for control and really high confidence so what that means is that I believe I can do it better than everybody else. And I really want to do it myself. So as a surgeon in the OR, right, that is what you want. You want a surgeon who's got really high confidence, really high self-belief, and has a high need for control, right? He's got confidence in himself and he wants to do it. Absolutely. But as a leader and as an educator, it's pretty damaging. So what ended up happening, and we realized this throughout our work together, was that he would find himself in the OR and his role then was to help a young surgeon

become a better surgeon, to educate them on how to become a better surgeon. And when he wasn't, when a surgeon, he or she wasn't doing the surgery to this director's liking, it wasn't a risk, there wasn't, it wasn't going to do any damage to the patient, but it wasn't to the level that he wanted it to be at. He would, he would step in and take over. He told me he'd get really stressed out and he'd step in and take over. And it crushes the surgical resident's confidence. It crushes their comfort level and their growth mindset to go and do this and try this again with this attending. And so we talked about how he can shift that need a little bit and work through that need of control and that, of course, that high level of confidence

by shifting his motivation and by shifting his purpose for being there. Because his purpose in that moment was still on the best quality of service and best quality of care when it needed to be on developing this surgeon to be capable of delivering the best quality of service and care. I love how, you know, I just think that you've worked with such a variety of people. And I hope as people are listening that they're thinking about, you know, their own leadership, even if they're not a surgeon or a Navy SEAL and ways that, you know, this relates to them. So Eric, that's, that's really what I want. Yeah. Go ahead. Oh, I just said, is there, you know, any other topics that we really haven't discussed that you'd like to, you know, dive into a little bit? Yeah, I think, I think the, the other, other the other element here that I find to be critical for

any performer, whether that is a junior tennis player to a CEO, and that is the ability to remain task-focused and to kind of get out of yourself. Galway and Intergame of Tenants talked about self-one and self-two and allowing self-two to perform, allowing self-two and trusting self-two, self-two being the one of ability, self-one being the judge to make it easy. So I think one way to do that is to remain focused on the task. And remaining focused on the task allows you to step away from how's it going? What's the outcome going to be? How do I look? How am I performing? What's my ability level? And staying focused on what I'm doing in this moment kind of frees you up from having to think about all those other things.

And how have you seen that just maybe understanding self one, self two and focusing on the task? How have you seen that impact people's performance? Maybe you can give us an example or tell us more what you're thinking. Yeah, working with a leader in an organization and he's he's got it's the same leader i was talking about earlier you know a lot of demands on him and one of the things that we have to understand is for leaders is there's there's no time to practice you're not practicing there's there's not a day where there's free you're free of evaluation or outcome measures every day you've got to move the ball. Every day

you've got to contribute and add to the process and maybe even the bottom line. So how do you get better without practicing? And the way that you get better without practicing is through testing and being willing to separate from the outcome, being willing to separate from the judgment and say, I'm going to go in and test out this approach. I'm going to go in and test out this practice, this skill that I'm developing. So that would be kind of a mindset shift for some people that are not an athlete or that are not a surgeon, you know, that have to show up every day and perform at their job is being willing to let go of the judgment, judgmental mind and test out a new approach. Staying focused on the task with that testing out of a new approach.

Mm-hmm. And I think that, I just think so many people really struggle with out of the new approach. And I think that, I just think so many people really struggle with kind of the judgment piece and judging themselves or judging others. I think that comes back to the compassion that you were talking about and, you know, related to mindfulness. Absolutely. I, I, I mean, I think that is a underdeveloped skill in a lot of people is, is having some self-compassion and,

and a mentor and coach of mine once said that the amount of compassion we have for others is limited by the amount of compassion we have for ourselves if we can't show compassion for ourselves we're going to struggle to show compassion for others how do do you cultivate a compassion for yourself? And one of the ways that I help performers cultivate this compassion for themselves is the concept of do your best, right? That concept is sometimes overused and misunderstood in many ways. I believe that we each have our absolute best and our relative best. So our absolute best is the absolute best we could do if all of the conditions were perfect. If all of the internal and external conditions were absolutely peaking at the right time, that is our absolute best. That is Kobe Bryant scoring 81 points in a game.

For sure. Our relative best is our best in the moment under the conditions and circumstances that we have. Right. Kobe didn't score 81 points every day. Some days he scored 15. Some days he scored, you know, 25. So that in that moment, under those conditions, that was his relative best. And what I find is that people are constantly comparing themselves against their absolute best, as opposed to examining what their relative best is in the moment. What is their best in the moment? You know, Ken Revizzi, you know, he talks, he still talks about, you know, if you've only got 60% that day, you know, if you're not feeling good, if you're tired, if your muscles are sore, and your attitude just isn't 100% right, you've only got 60%, give 100% of that 60%. And then measuring yourself against the effort, not always the output. I think that to me is where we start this journey of self

compassion without apathy and without, you know, just not caring at all, but being compassionate about what was my relative best for this moment. And how, Eric, do you think that we can kind of find our relative best? You know, I think some people might think, well, I'm just giving myself an excuse today, right? Like how, how would you tell us to examine that and understand that more for each of us individually? Now, that often starts with reflection and being able to reflect back on the moment. So I think that we have to start backwards, so to speak. So in order to know what my relative best is for today, I have to have done some examination from past games or past practices or past experiences. So one way that I do that is I have athletes and leaders and different performers that I work with

evaluate their performance from a, you know, a number of different metrics, you know, from a, from a technical metric, from a tactical metric. And then of course, you know, mental characteristics that we're working on within that. So when we have that understanding, then we can look at based on, you know, these evaluations that you gave yourself, this was the best that you could do. So if you're not having a consistent pre-shot routine, then this is the best that you can expect. If you have a consistent or more consistent routine, then this is the relative best that you can expect. So I think it starts kind of, it starts backwards, so to speak, where we collect some data on what led to this outcome that I got,

this outcome that isn't my absolute best and it isn't what I wanted, but what led to that and having some awareness around what generated that outcome and what do I need to fix? What's going to have the strongest leverage to change the outcome, to move it up a notch, to level up, so to speak. And Eric, I think about like how that relates to what we started talking about on this podcast about, you know, how the world's best have a clarity of who they are, not wavering from that, but they have, you know, a high degree of self-awareness so they can really lead themselves and they understand what their absolute best looks like and their relative best. Absolutely. Well, Eric, I think that you and I could talk

about this stuff for like hours. So I think that you're going to have to be a return guest if you'd be willing. I love that. I love that. I think you gave people a lot to really consider and think about related to themselves. And so I really appreciate the value that you provided. And the way I'm going to wrap up is I'm going to tell you what stood out to me as I was listening. You know, I like your clarity of how you see that the world's best and how they're different. And you really said they have a clarity of who they are, not wavering from who they are, and especially in the darkness. And, you know, I liked our conversation

about mindfulness and meditation, how that's different. And within that conversation or within that, the part of the interview, you know, I liked what you said about that mindfulness is really about accepting and, you know, that the thought is just the thought and you don't really have to pay any attention to that thought and how that the best can really, really train that to be in the present. And then, you know, finally the mission statement

that incorporates the philosophy of excellence versus the shadow mission. And I think, you know, that's something I haven't heard people talk about much and I'm going to go back and I really haven't heard anyone talk about that, to be honest. So I appreciate, you know, just sharing that unique approach with us. And that's something I'm going to consider. You know, I think for me, I have my own purpose statement and that's pretty clear, but I haven't really thought about kind of the shadow mission. So I'm going to take some time to write that out. So you, you provide lots of value here today. So really appreciate that. Tell us how we can get connected with you, Eric. And if we want to hire you, you know, for, for some speaking or training or, you know, work with your, your company, get a strong mind. Tell

us about that. Yeah, absolutely. Before I do that, actually, I just, I want to share one more thing, if you don't mind. Of course. And that is, I should let you answer that question if I ask it. So thank you. Thank you for letting me share one more thing.

I wanted to share a story briefly about a Navy SEAL candidate that I'm working with now. Four years ago, when I was working with the Navy SEALs, I'm working with now. Four years ago, when I was working with the Navy SEALs, he was one of the candidates that dropped out, quit. And he sought me out after he quit. And we exchanged a few words and a few emails here and there. I gave him a few suggestions and we went our separate ways. Three years later, which was last January, I got an email from him. And he said, he's got another shot at becoming a SEAL and he wants my help we connected and we got back together and he said I have to thank you because over the last three years there was something that you

said to me that I have thought of nearly every day and he's and what I said to him was if you have a strong enough why you will find your way back here. So my kind of last piece of advice to high performers is to dig deep when searching for your why. It's not going to be what shows up on the surface. It's not going to be the first thing that comes to mind when you ask yourself that question. So be willing to do the difficult and often lonely work of self-discovery. Look past fear. Look past your ego,

look past what others want from you, and find your true purpose for your pursuit. And let me just tell you really quickly about the power of this young man's why. He committed to running every day to get better no matter what. And when he was on a ship and deployed in Iraq area, Middle East, I should say, he is committed to running every day.

And sometimes he would be running in the hangar where they store helicopters and planes and other vehicles and equipment. And sometimes there wouldn't be any helicopters and equipment in there. Sometimes it would be full. And he would have a 10 by square square foot area to run in. And he would run 15 miles in a 10 by 10 square foot area in 110 degree heat. Wow. So there's only one way to do that. And that is with a powerful why. Absolutely. Not something that is driven by the ego, not something that is driven by fear, but something that's underneath that.

So that's the last thing I'd like to just share with everybody. As far as getting in touch with me. Yeah, excellent story to finish us up. So yeah, tell us how we can get in touch with you and where you are on social media if we'd like to reach out. Yeah, so it's get A Strong Mind on all platforms, on Instagram and Twitter. And I don't think anybody uses Facebook anymore,

but my mom's on there. So if you want to follow my mom, you can. So yeah, so Get A Strong Mind. And then my website is getastrongmind.com. And I'd be happy to help out. And one of the things that I do that I'd be happy to, to help out. And, and one of the things that, that I do that, that I know not everybody does, but, um, you know, I, I, I want to make sure the fit is right. So, you know, call and let's have a conversation. There's no cost to this, but let's just see if

the fit is right. And if it works, then we'll find something that works for you and move forward on your journey. Absolutely. Well, outstanding conversation, Eric. And I'd encourage everyone to head over to Twitter or another social media platform and tell us what you thought about today's interview. Again, Eric is at getastrongmind and I'm at mentally underscore strong. We'd love to hear what you thought about today.

And thank you so much for listening. And Eric, thank you so much for giving us a lot to consider and think about and providing such incredible value today. So thank you so much for being on. Thank you, Sandra. And thank you for all that you do for people in our field and for the people that you work with. Thank you, Eric.

Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset. If you liked today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend, and join the conversation on Twitter at Mentally Underscore Strong. For more inspiration and to receive Sindra's free weekly videos, check out DrSindra.com.