High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 191: BRAND Yourself with Dr. Kensa Gunter, Licensed Psychologist and Certified Mental Performance Consultant

Episode Date: June 29, 2018

Dr. Kensa Gunter is a licensed psychologist (Georgia) and a Certified Mental Performance Consultant (CMPC) through the Association for Applied Sport Psychology (AASP).  In her Atlanta based private practice, she provides individual counseling, sport psychology services, and consultation services to various organizations. Dr. Gunter has worked with the Atlanta Falcons (NFL) and the Atlanta Dream (WNBA) as well as athletes from a variety of levels (e.g., high school, collegiate, & professional) and non-athletic populations.  She also provides workshops and lectures both locally and nationally.  She’s passionate about helping people and working to decrease the stigma around mental health that exists within society and particularly within athletic & African-American communities.  She serves in various professional organizations and is also listed on the United States Olympic Committee Sport Psychology Registry. In this interview, Kensa and Cindra talk about: The 3 prongs of her philosophy & how they are tied to her business name How her biggest failure opened another world How you can BRAND yourself Why it’s important to maximize the present moment What high performers do differently You can find a full description of the Podcast at cindrakamphoff.com/kensa

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Sindra Kampoff, and I'm grateful that you're here, ready to listen to episode 191 with Dr. Kenza Gunter. Now, the goal of these interviews is to learn from the world's best leaders, athletes, coaches, and consultants, all about the topic of mindset to help us reach our potential or be high performers in our field or our sport.

Now today I had the amazing privilege of interviewing Dr. Kenza Gunter, who is a licensed psychologist in Georgia and a certified mental performance consultant through the Association for Applied Sports Psychology. In her Atlanta-based private practice, she provides individual counseling, sports psychology services, and consultation services to a variety of organizations, including the NFL's Atlanta Falcons

and the WNBA's Atlanta Dream. Dr. Gunter works with athletes at a variety of levels, including high school, collegiate, and professional, and non-athletic populations. Now, she's passionate about helping people and working to decrease the stigma around mental health that exists within our society and particularly within the athletic and African American communities. She serves in a variety of professional organizations and is also listed on the United States Olympic

Committee Sports Psychology Registry. Now in this interview, Kenza and I talk about a variety of things. We talk about how her biggest failure opened up a whole new world. I think you're going to enjoy her conversation about this and her story about her biggest failure. She talks about how you can brand yourself and she has an acronym for brand. She talks about why it's important to maximize the present moment and what high performers do differently. And here are two of my favorite quotes from this interview. I think you're going to want to write these down.

She says, quote, sometimes blessings and opportunities come packaged in the unexpected, end quote. And then she says towards the end of the interview this. She says, quote, the best learn from the past, but don't live in it. They prepare for the future, but don't worry about it, end quote. Outstanding interview here with Dr. Kenza. We'd love for you to join the conversation over on Twitter. My Twitter handle is mentally underscore strong. And Dr. Kenza's is Dr. Kenza.

So that's D-R-K-E-N-S-A. You can find the full show notes and more information at cindracampoff.com slash Kenza. All right, without further ado, let's bring on Kenza. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. I'm excited today to be joined by Kenza Gunter. Kenza, welcome to the show. Hey, Sandra, thank you so much for the invitation to be here. This is super, super exciting for me. So I'm looking forward to talking. I'm looking forward to talking as well and just learning more about your work and kind of diving into it. And I know, you know, we've met at the Association for Applied Sports Psychology. We do similar work, but it's always great to, you know, just hear a little bit more about what other people are doing and help us

just continue to learn and grow related to our mindset. So to start us off, Kenza, tell us a little bit about your passion and what you do right now. So if I had to say it in a phrase, my passion is truly helping people, just helping them to move in the direction that they want to move in life. And I think as it relates to athletes, my passion is also de-stigmatizing mental health within the athletic community, because I think that there's a lot of stigma that sometimes gets in the way of people seeking the help that they need, whether it be performance enhancement in terms of that realm or whether it's just in their personal lives. And so I'm really very passionate about destigmatizing mental health and just working to help people to live this thing called life.

Love it. So for sure. So you are a licensed psychologist in Georgia, you're a certified mental performance consultant with ASP. And I know you also do some work with Atlanta Falcons and the Atlanta Dream, the WNBA team. So tell us a little bit about kind of how you got to where you are now. Yeah, so primarily, I'm in private practice, so I do have my own private doctorate in psychological services, and out of my practice I have relationships with the organizations that you mentioned. So I am fortunate enough to have the opportunity to work with the Atlanta Falcons and also with the Atlanta Dream, and in my private practice work, I work with high school athletes, I work with collegiate athletes. And so really just so fortunate to have the opportunity to work with many different athletes participating in different sports,

as well as those competing at different levels. In terms of how I got here, a lot of times I just say by the grace of God. And, you know, I think a little bit of hard work in there too. So I majored in psychology. I'm an undergrad. I attended the University of Georgia. And from there, I actually went to John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York because I wanted to be a profiler. And actually, I initially wanted to work for the FBI. So I obtained a degree in forensic psychology, completed a master's internship in a prison, and quickly realized that although I

enjoyed the work, as strange as that may sound, I did not necessarily want to go to jail for my job every day. And so while, you know, while completing that master's externship, I had a mentor, a psychiatrist, who really made me think about what was I passionate about. I was always passionate about psychology, and I had always been passionate about sports. I'd been an athlete growing up. Swimming and basketball were my sports. And so she's actually the one who said, well, have you heard of this field called sports psychology? And when she mentioned that, I did my research and located a program out in Phoenix, Arizona. It was at Argosy University in Phoenix.

They offered a PsyD in clinical psychology with a concentration in sport and exercise psychology. And that seemed like a really good fit for what I wanted to do. And so I moved across country to Phoenix, pursued my doctoral degree there. As a part of the psychology requirements, doctoral psychology requirements, you have to do an internship. So I completed my internship at the University of California in Davis, working in their counseling center, where we had specialty tracks. So in addition to working with the general student population, I also had the opportunity to work with athletics. So about 30 to 35% of my time was spent working with athletes during my internship

and also during my postdoc, my postdoctoral fellowship, which is the year after internship where you're accruing hours so that you can sit for licensure in the state where you're going to end up. I always knew that I wanted to come back home to Georgia. So when I completed my postdoctoral fellowship, I came back to Georgia and I was working as an outreach coordinator in a college counseling center. And truly with that first job, I didn't have any designated role within athletics. I was purely a staff psychologist working with the general student population and I was outreach coordinator. So any request for an outreach presentation, for example, a presentation about stress management or time management or diversity or transitioning to college, any presentation that was requested by

classes, professors in their classes, or other departments on campus, those came to us. And I was the one who sorted through those presentations and helped to find presenters within our staff and kind of get those requests filled. So I myself provided a lot of the presentations, which in hindsight was extremely helpful given the work that I do now. But I was really just an outreach coordinator. However, they were, the counseling center was trying to develop a relationship with athletics. And so given my background in sports psychology and the training that I had had, after about eight months to a year of me being there, I was able to become the liaison to athletics. So in addition to my general kind of staff psychologist position, in addition to being an outreach coordinator,

I started working with athletics. So I would go over and hold open hours in the training room. I started providing talks to teams, doing some consulting with the athletic trainers, and even with the sport nutritionist that was there at the time, and also doing individual work with student athletes when they came into the counseling center. So yeah, after about, yeah, yeah, it was good. So I mean that, but you know, I think a lot of people have this idea that you major in sports psychology and you instantly do sports psychology work.

And that was not necessarily how my path took me. It took me into the generalist world, which I'm thankful for because I feel like that experience allowed me to develop some really foundational skills that have carried over into my work now. Absolutely. And I know, you know, one of the things, Kenza, that I ask everybody at the beginning is, you know, tell us about a time you failed, what you learned from it, and what we can learn from it. And I think, you know, from knowing you, I think, you know, about this time would maybe be kind of one of your biggest

failures. Can you tell us about that and kind of how it led, you know, to you being where you are right now and kind of flourishing within your own private practice, you know, Gunter Performance Consulting? Yeah, so basically, I, you know, I certainly could tell you an example about a time where I didn't connect with a client or about a time where I was teaching a certain skill and it just, it didn't work. It didn't help the client in the way they were hoping for or wanting it to work. But I think the biggest failure, I guess, that stands out in my mind is this wonderful job that I had at the counseling center. I was actually laid off. And certainly that was not a part of my career plan at all.

Absolutely. I was not expecting it. I was not prepared for it. I had planned all my life in terms of when I graduated from undergrad, I knew I wanted to go to grad school. I knew I wanted to study psychology. I knew what internship site I wanted. I was fortunate enough to get it. But once I landed this job, I stopped planning. And I didn't have any idea of what I wanted to do next. I thought I've landed my job, I've arrived. And so that was a pretty

devastating blow for me. And I remember being laid off on that Friday. And then on that Saturday morning, I woke up and thought to myself, well, that was an interesting nightmare. Until I walked up to the office in my home and realized that my office from my previous job was actually packed up in boxes. That was real. Yeah, that was very real. Yeah, no, that was very real. And so I didn't know what I was going to do. I mean, I had not that didn't have an updated resume, was not looking for new job opportunities. I really just was kind of lost. And so thankfully, I have an amazing support system. And so what I actually did was I went home to my parents' house for about a week to kind of regroup. And during a time when I really didn't know what to do, I just needed to go back to a place that I knew was stable and secure and would provide unconditional support.

And thankfully, that's what my family provides for me. And so in being there for a week and talking to them and thinking through what was next, actually what happened was there was a group practice here in the Atlanta area and I received an email in which they expressed an interest in me coming on board as a contractor at their practice. And I had no idea that this opportunity was going to present itself. But literally, I was laid off on a Friday. And that Monday, there was an email in my inbox, asking me if I wanted to pursue this new opportunity. And so when I said earlier, I think that I've gotten to where I am, by the grace of God, this is a part of that story. There's no way I could have predicted that or scripted that in any way. And so ultimately, I ended up going to work in that group practice where I stayed for about three years.

Yeah. So then tell us, you know, at what point did you decide, you know, I'm going to go on my own and start this Gunter Psychological Services? Yeah. So after about three years, that's when I decided to leave that practice and pursue my own independent practice. And so that's where I decided to leave that practice and pursue my own independent practice. And so that's where I am now. But it was really kind of a baptism by fire because I didn't know anything about running a business. I learned a lot during my time in working with the group practice.

And while working at that practice, a lot of other doors opened up. So during that time is when I made my connection with the Atlanta Falcons. That's where I made my connections that would ultimately lead to my connection with the Atlanta Dream. That's where I had the opportunity to go and work with some local college athletic departments. And that all came while I was in that group practice. So that by the time I stepped out on my own, I really felt more secure and capable of running a business and actually, you know, making it productive and successful and being something that actually could thrive and be sustainable. Absolutely. So when you look back at that time, because obviously not what you expected to be laid off, not something that you

could control, what do you feel like you learned from that experience? You know, that we can kind of take this wisdom that you learned and apply it to our life as well? Yeah, I guess there's two things that come to mind. One is sometimes blessings and opportunities come in unexpected packaging, because what I thought was a closed door and kind of a stopping point, really, it was a closed door on the job that I had, but it opened up a world of opportunity in ways that I never would have been exposed to had that door not been closed. So I think opportunities can come in very unexpected packaging. And the other thing is, no matter how many plans we make, sometimes the path to success is not a straight path. And the ones that I think, when I think about performers,

and I think about the ones that are great they're not great because they had the perfect route to success what I think is is they're great because they're able to make the adjustment when things go a little bit off course and they're able to make the adjustment in such a way so that it still works to their benefit and they're still moving forward so those are the two things that I take from that. Absolutely. And sort of like what I think, what I see, especially in the NFL and pro sports, it's like the people who've gone through a lot of adversity, you know, that's how they develop their mental toughness. And that's why they are so mentally tough when the heat is on. Yeah, absolutely. Right. It's because they've had the experience, right? It's this idea of

being in a tough or a pressure situation. There's nothing new to them, right? That specific situation may be new, but the idea of navigating a challenge, a setback, or a difficulty is not new because they've done that before. Absolutely. And so, you know, Gunter Psychological Services, GPS, that also stands for something besides Gunter Psychological Services. You know, tell us about that. I think that might kind of get at, you know, how you do your work. Yeah. So the GPS is very intentional. Certainly when you think about GPS, you think about navigation. But the three words, I guess if you would call it my three-word business creed, would be gratitude, patience, and strength. And so I truly feel like in navigating life, for me, it's important to really have gratitude for the journey and every aspect of the journey, even those unexpected twists and turns.

It's important to have the patience to stay present. So the patience to be in this moment and not consumed with the past or overly focused on the future, but the patience to be right here, right now, and to create your future based on what you do today. And then the strength to grow, because growth can be difficult sometimes and growth can hurt and growth can push us, but growth is necessary. And so I think it takes a lot of strength and fortitude in order to be able to grow.

So it's gratitude for the journey, the patience to stay present and strength to grow. Excellent. Yeah, good. I think that's hard. As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about ways that I can even level that up. So especially maybe the patience part, I'm just generally kind of an impatient person. So, you know, I like things now. I don't want to run away.

But there's exactly right. So, you know, what would be sort of like your top tip or maybe it's not a tip, but, you know, your recommendation in terms of people who are listening and saying, wow, yeah, I'd love to to live that way where I'm more in the present and working to create my future right now. How do you think we can do that? Yeah, I think the first thing I think is that it has to be intentional. We live in such a fast-paced society that it's really easy to get caught up in the next.

And so I think it's really important to intentionally take some moments to pause, whether that's having some kind of ritual or routine that you do in the morning that kind of allows you to ground yourself for the day, or something that you do at night that allows you to kind of pause and reflect on what has happened in the course of that day. I think that's really important. I'm a big proponent of journaling. I have about six or seven different journals. I like to collect them. I like the quotes on the front, but I think that for me allows me to stop and actually appreciate whatever experience has happened as opposed to just moving on to the next. And then another activity that I often recommend to my athletes, because they too have difficulty

staying in the present, it's very simple. I'll tell them during the course of the day, you can set a timer on your phone. And whenever that timer goes off, just take a moment to, if you're in a position to close your eyes, close your eyes and identify three things in your environment that you can hear, like three distinct sounds to ground you in that moment that you're in. If you can't close your eyes, then I ask them to identify three things in their environment that they can see. So I ask them what their favorite color is, use that favorite color when your alarm goes off, thinking of that color,

let's say it's green. Identify three things in your environment at that moment that you see that are green, because it just forces them to pause and get out of their head so much and focus on what's around them. And how have you seen that practice being helpful for the people that you work with? I mean, I've seen them, certainly it takes a little practice, but what I've seen is that they're able to say that, you know, my mind was racing, but my alarm went off and I actually stopped. And after that just short moment of stopping, I was able to regroup and identify what steps I needed to take next, as opposed to continuing just this incessant cycle of thinking, right? It allows them to pause and clear their mind for a moment so that they can think clearly in the moment right after they do the activity. And so that's, that's the hope. And that's what what's been reported. Now, you know, one of the things Kenza, you said early on in the interview is like how you're

really passionate about destigmatizing mental health. You know, tell us a little bit about that passion and, and how you see mental health and why do you think it needs to be destigmatized? So by trade, I'm a psychologist, right? Like I was trained as a general psychologist and certainly the sport and exercise psychology piece was a component of my training, but really my foundation is to be a psychologist. And I think that in our society, we've done a really good job at focusing on physical health. And we have done a really good job at focusing on physical health, and we have done a very poor job at talking about understanding and being aware of how important mental and emotional health is. I think if you think about how we think about mental health in our society, there's a sigma

attached because we always think about the negative. When somebody says mental health, people automatically think about the diagnosable condition, somebody who has depression or anxiety or somebody who's struggling and in distress. But the reality is that mental health is a continuum, just like physical health, right? You can be, if you think about physical health, you can be thriving and completely kind of on your game and healthy in all respects and feeling good. Or you can be in a moment of distress where let's say you have somebody who has an injury, their physical health is, is challenged at that moment, but they're, they're on that continuum. Still mental health is the same way. So it's not just about those times when we're in distress,

but mental health also encompasses the times when we're thriving. And that's what I think we need to really shift our thinking. That's how we need to shift our thinking when it comes to mental health. It's a continuum. And we all fall on the continuum. At every point in our lives, we just fall on it at different points in our lives, right? So there may be times when we're really thriving and doing well, but some major stressor may happen. Example, you lose your job and now you might not be, you know, mentally in as secure of a place as you were prior to that incident happening. That doesn't necessarily mean that something's wrong or bad or that I don't

need to be able to talk about it. What it means is that I may need more support to help me get back to that place of thriving. And so that's really how I, how I think about mental health as a continuum. And for me in the sports psychology world, certainly I am a proponent of performance enhancement techniques and mental skills training, you know, thinking about your goal setting and self-talk and all of that. But I also see addressing an individual's mental health as a pathway to performance enhancement too. Because if you have a healthy

person, in my mind, you'll have a healthy performer. Absolutely. And so I guess I have two questions, you know, to follow up on that. Do you see like this continuum of thriving and distress? Do you see it sort of like this day to day continuum? You know, today I might be thriving, but you know, tomorrow I might be a little bit closer to the other continuum. Or do you think it's just more general, like month to month or year to year? Like, tell us how you kind of conceptualize that. Yeah, I think it's more general. I don't see it as necessarily a day-to-day thing per se.

But I do think, you know, it's a continuum and something that might ebb and flow based on the events that happen in one's life. So certainly there are different circumstances and situations that occur that might shift us on that continuum so if I think about an athlete right somebody who's injured right a career-ending injury is going to shift somebody on that continuum much different than let's say an ankle sprain right but but they all might shift right if I think about in a personal context somebody who loses a loved one. Right. The loss of a loved one that is potentially going to shift where they are on that mental health continuum.

But also there are, you know, those truly diagnosable conditions that really have a biological cause and that really might require more assistance. So I don't want to present it as though those conditions don't exist because they absolutely do. And so you do have your clinically diagnosable depression and anxiety that may ebb and flow in much different ways that are not situation specific that may require therapy or medication to help them in managing that. So those conditions are real and that reality exists. But in general, I'm thinking, you know, for the person who does not have a diagnosable condition, it's just kind of a general thing that ebbs and flows depending on what happens in life and just kind of where they are. And I do agree with you that there is a stigma about mental health. And

we think that it's just, you know, this mental health equals like this diagnosable condition where you do have to get therapy or medication. So I like your conceptualization. And when you say like, you know, mental health as a way or a pathway to performance enhancement, kind of just tell us about that. And you know, a little bit about your philosophy. Yeah, I can, it goes back to the, my, my, if I had a mantra, it would be athletes are people first, right? If I had a mantra for the sports psychology work that I do, they're people first. And I think a lot of times that might be easy to forget. And the tendency may be to just focus on that individual as a performer and not think about that individual as a person. And so when I think about mental health, I think about

how they're, how they're existing and living in both realms, both as a performer and as a person. And if there's something going on in their life personally, that's very distressing, and that's causing them a lot of angst, and that's really disrupting their ability to focus and concentrate and kind of just move through life, that's going to be problematic when they get in their performance setting. And so for me, certainly you can have the person where if you teach them specific mental skills, that can help them in their performance. But I think also thinking about if you help this person deal with a relationship challenge

that they have going on, if you help them address a financial situation or stressor that they might be dealing, if you just offer them a place where they can talk and you can listen and they can let some of that tension and stress go, that could also be a pathway to allowing them to perform better when they get in that sport setting. And so that's kind of what I mean when I say that. Awesome. Awesome. And you know, and I know one of the things that you're involved in is the rookie transition program there at the Atlanta Falcons. We have a similar, you know, and I know one of the things that you're involved in is the rookie transition program there at the Atlanta Falcons. We have a similar, you know, program with the Minnesota Vikings. Obviously, all of the NFL teams do. But can you tell us a little bit about how you end up getting involved?

And sometimes people, you know, are interested in like, wow, how do you even get started working with an NFL team? And tell us a little bit about kind of what you do there. Yeah. So the way I got involved in it was really happenstance. So there was a vacancy here in Atlanta and the person within the league who runs that program was looking for a clinician and they put out a call in the listserv that they were a part of and somebody on that listserv, Wendy Bollaby, actually you've had her on your podcast before, but she was a part of that listserv. Yeah, she was a part of that list serve. And she said, well, I know Kenza because Wendy and I went to graduate school together. And she referred me. And they reached out and, you know,

we had interviews and I was vetted and I was extended the opportunity to serve in that role as the coordinator or not coordinator, well, I guess coordinator, but the person who coordinated and facilitated, I would say, some of the workshops for the rookie program. So with us, that program is housed under our Department of Player Affairs. And so our Vice President of Player Affairs, that is really his domain. In addition to helping all of the athletes within the club with any and everything that they need, that is certainly his domain. And I have the distinct pleasure and fortune of being able to work with him. And so what the Rookie Program is, as you know, but just to tell your listeners, it's essentially a series of psychoeducational workshops to help the athletes transition to the league and to the club in which they are a part of. And so what I do now, we call our program South End University. Love it.

And what we do, yeah, and so that's exactly what we do. We offer a series of workshops about a number of different topics, financial management, stress management, credit. We have the fortune of our coaches coming in and providing wisdom, nuggets of wisdom to the rookies. We have a former rookies panel where rookies from the previous year come back and offer their knowledge and their experience to the rookies this year. But this year, it was a three-week deal that we had where we just had a number of different workshops. We have media training for them and just a host of different things. Some of those workshops I facilitate and others,

I just sit in and I'm just there so that they get to see me as just a part of the culture. So when they think about sports psychology or they think about the mental health provider, they don't think of somebody who's external or something separate, but I'm there from the beginning. So it's just a resource that's provided and it's just a part of what we do. And then at the end of our thousands university, we have a graduation forum. So we get hats and tassels you know, somebody just coming out of the, coming into the league who perhaps is drafted, sometimes not, you know, are trying to make this team, what do you see them, you know, what are the, you know, two or three things that you think that they're really struggling with? There's so much uncertainty in that process. Like, it's just not, it's not a stable, sure, certain process at all. I mean, you know, being drafted or being picked up as an undrafted free agent just means that you now have an opportunity to try to make

the team, right? And so I think that's the biggest thing is that they don't have stable housing, like they may be living in hotels or whatever the case may be because you don't know how long they're going to be here and so I really think that's a big point of transition for the rookies when they come from college and come into the league is just going from a system where everything is structured because if you think about college athletics their whole days are planned for them from their workouts practice practice, study hall, class, meetings, rehab, everything they have to do is structured. And it's all right there on campus to, I'm in a new city that I may have never been in before by myself with people that I don't know who are competing for a job that I'm

trying to also get, right? And I have to learn. And not only that, but I have to learn and not only that but I have to perform because I'm being evaluated right like I've got to learn this playbook as quickly as possible and you know show people that I'm an asset and that I can be a benefit to this team that's a huge transition and that's a lot to ask of a person but that's exactly what they have to do. And I'm doing all of that in this, you know, environment of uncertainty because I could be gone tomorrow. Right. I think what's hard is to not give into that voice inside your head that, you know, you see like the vets practice and you're like, man, I'm not as good as them.

You know, I mean, just that the, you know, negative self-talk, this like villain that, you know, you need to listen to that instead of realizing it's part of the process and kind of believing that you can learn. Absolutely. Understanding that the process involves learning and that it's a huge learning curve, but giving yourself permission to learn, which means you're going to make mistakes. But as is often said in our Rookie Transition Program, try not to make going to make mistakes. But as it's often said, in our rookie transition program, try not to make the same mistake twice. Right? So you're going to make mistakes, but just learn very quickly and give yourself an opportunity again, to maximize the present moment. You can't think about what's coming and you can't think about where you've come from. You have to think about and decide how you want to show up each and every day

to get the most out of that day and to showcase what you're capable of doing to the best of your ability. Absolutely. And it's almost like showing up moment after moment. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Kenza, so tell us a little bit about how that your work with the Atlanta Dream might be similar or different to that. Yeah. So I think, you know, the Atlanta Dream is for the incoming players, the rookies, in some ways it's similar because they too are, you know, they've been drafted or picked up by a team with being given the opportunity to try to make the team. Right. Because just because you've been picked up does not mean that you're going to make a final roster. So in that way, I think it's very similar. They're in a new city, most often by themselves. So their support system is somewhere else. And they're expected to perform in a really short amount of time to try to show that they can be an asset and a benefit to the team that they're trying to be a part of. What I think is different,

particularly if I think about the WNBA and the women who participate in that league, one, their season is a lot shorter, but their season domestically is a lot shorter. What a lot of people I don't think understand is that a lot of the WNBA players go overseas where they play for months out of the year. And so even though their season here in the States may last from May until September, and people may think, well, they have a tremendously long off season. That's not the case.

Because a lot of them leave shortly after the end of the WNBA season to go play abroad. And that creates some unique challenges of its own. So think about picking up and going to a different country, and it could be a different country every year, depending on how your contracts are structured, but a different country where you don't have a support system, you may or may not speak the

language, right? And you're going just to have the opportunity to continue playing a game that you love and to continue doing work that you are passionate about. But you're in a foreign country while doing it, right? And so that international component and the cultural adjustment that exists for them in that regard, I think is very different than any other professional league that I can think of. Maybe major league soccer might have some of that. But if I think in general about, you know, for America, we think about hockey, football, baseball, basketball. But in thinking about the women's basketball league, they have a very different experience. And it requires different strengths and different challenges that they have to contend with

when they are playing abroad. And again, might be in a very stressful kind of isolated situation, but still being expected to perform at a very high level. Absolutely. And I hear some like consistencies between those two experiences that there is a lot of uncertainty. It's not stable, right? And you're having to move wherever a lot of uncontrollables, you know, in terms of, you know, following your dream. You know, one of the things I know you talk about, which I'm thinking about how it connects in both of these experiences with the NFL and the WNBA, and how it connects with like maximizing the present moment, is you talk about athletes kind of brand themselves. Can you

talk a little bit about that and why you think that's important and what that means to you? Yeah, so I guess it was a few years ago and trying to kind of create a presentation for the rookies. A thought that I had is what can I share with them or what can I give to them that will not only apply in their sport life, but could apply beyond sport that encompasses not only things that they need to be successful as an athlete, but maybe things that will help them be successful in life. And so what I came up with was this idea of a brand. And certainly we all know what a brand is. There are many books and many people have talked about branding yourself and,

and, you know, with, with the idea of brand being, um, the set of characteristics that people think about when they think of you. Right. So if we think of companies, they have a certain brand. We think about, for example, McDonald's. We think of the Golden Arches. We think of Nike. We think of the swoosh. And we also think of the mantra, just do it, right?

So they've done a good job of connecting these images and these phrases with their companies such that when we hear them, that's what we think about. So, you know, athletes and all of us, really, we are constantly promoting a certain brand as well. And so when I thought about this, I created an acronym for brand, which stands for the B stands for attitude, the N stands for network, and the D stands for dream. And together, that's brand. And so I can certainly go into that in more detail, but that's kind of the overview of what I talk with my rookies about particularly and other groups and people I've talked about, even non-athletes I've talked with about this, to have them think about how you're showing up, back to that idea we just talked about a them think about how you're showing up back to

the idea we just talked about a moment ago, how you're showing up, how you want to show up and how you are creating an environment that allows you to thrive. Nice. Okay. So let's dive into that a little bit more. Tell us about creating this environment where we want to thrive. Like I'm just kind of even applying it to myself and thinking, all right, so how do I want to show up? I know I want to show up passionate and excited for what I do and, you know, smart. So I know what I want. Tell us a bit about like how that connects with like this environment that you want to thrive in. Yeah. So I'll just kind of go through each one. So for the beliefs, it really is a matter of kind of thinking about your values and what your, what, what principles reflect at your core, what's important to you. And so generally I'll ask people to think about just three words, three,

three words that describe what's important to you and that kind of encompass your foundational belief system. So if you think about what I just talked about with my company, gratitude, patience, and strength, that would be the beliefs that serve as the foundation for my business right and also I would say for my personal life in general but you know for others it could be loyalty hard work family faith creativity like it could be a number of things but just getting them to think about what's important to you, what guides you, what is your personal creed in three

words. And I keep it simple because it's very easy for us to just list all of these characteristics because they sound great, but I really want it to be something that speaks to that person, right? So that's kind of the first part. That's good. And when you get to the R, yeah, when you get to the R, talking about respect and responsibility, so it's kind of twofold. So the respect part is just that outward manifestation of the value that you have for yourself and that you have for other people, right? That's what respect truly is. And so the responsibility then comes into play with you taking ownership for whatever experience you're in. So as we talk about the athletes, this brand that you're creating, this experience that you're having, you have to own that, right? And so in owning that, you have to know what your strengths are,

know what your weaknesses are, work to enhance your strengths, but also work to develop your weaknesses. And then be aware of the resources that are around you because it's your responsibility to do whatever you can to own and create the experience you want. And that doesn't just have to come from you, right? So that's where taking ownership and knowing yourself and developing yourself, but also using the resources that are around you really does come into play. And Kenzo, how do you think, you know, sort of like the best take responsibility and have respect? Meaning like, you know, I'm thinking about like this outward value of your work and you're taking ownership of that.

What do you think that looks like, you know, in terms of somebody actually like taking this outward value of their work? So I think what it could look like is not just owning your successes, but also owning the failures and the mistakes and the setbacks and seeing that as a part of the process. Like taking everything that happens and gleaning the lesson from it. So I guess one athlete that comes to mind is Sloane Stephens. And recently she lost in the finals of the French, but I was reading an article in her press conference. Basically she said the best player won, right? She's not devaluing herself in that way,

but what she is is acknowledging in that moment, she stepped her game up to a level that truly allowed her to beat me. And she beat me, right? It's not, well well I succumb to the pressure I did this right like I played to my ability at that moment it just wasn't enough to overcome my opponent so what that then allows you to do is go back to the drawing board and make the adjustment right to identify what aspects of your game do you need to work on to improve so that you

can be better prepared the next time that you're in that kind of situation, right? And so that's where I think the respecting and valuing what you've done while also recognizing that there still may be more work for me to do. I guess it kind of boils down in the sports cycle what I think of it as valuing the process, not just the outcome. Absolutely. So even if I lose a match or lose a game, I can still value that I worked really hard. Now I may need to work a bit harder

or tweak some of the things that I'm doing so that I can get to the level where I want to be. But I don't have to devalue the work that I've put in just because the outcome wasn't what I wanted. Excellent. So B, belief. R is respect and responsibility. What is the A then? Yes. A is attitude. So quite simply, how do you show up? Right? Like, not only how do you show up

from a physical standpoint in terms of how do you work hard and what that determination and drive looks like from the physical exertion that you may put into your performance, but how do you show up mentally, right? Like, how are you talking to yourself? What are the things, self-talk is a really big mental skill for me that I talk with almost every athlete about, because I think it's really important for us to take note of what we're saying to ourselves. And so that ties into the attitude for me is, what are you saying to yourself? What are you saying externally? And then not only what work are you putting in, but non-verbally, how are you showing up, right? Like a smile goes a long way. A confident posture goes a long way as opposed to slumped shoulders,

no eye contact, and just not exuding this air or this posture of confidence or that I'm capable, not even confidence, but that I'm capable of doing whatever it is I'm trying to do. So attitude really becomes important. And then, you know, not just how do you show up, but how do you react in different situations? So how do you handle success? How do you handle challenges? How do you handle feedback? Because if you have an attitude

that allows for openness and you're willing to learn and willing to grow, then you'll receive those things in a much different way than if you're closed and if you're focused on perfection, right? And not open to the growth opportunities that will allow you to get to the next level. So that's what goes into attitude. I like the part of the attitude that it's not just like the attitude that others seeing you, but it's like, what is your self talk and are you building yourself up or are you completely tearing yourself down?

Yes, absolutely. And then the N. The N is network. So this is where more of that external environment comes into play because one of the things, one of the first things that I tell people when we talk about the N is network. So this is where more of that external environment comes into play. Because one of the things, one of the first things that I tell people when we talk about the N is take stock of your relationships. Take stock of the people that are around you. Take stock of how they are feeding into you and pouring into you or how they are taking away from you. Right. And when I'm thinking about this, I'm talking about your support network. And I really think it's important for people in general, definitely athletes to be aware of who are you surrounding yourself with?

One of the big things that I know we talk about with all of the professional athletes that I've worked with and, and even in the collegiate spaces that I've been in is think about your associations, right? Because you want to surround yourself with people who are motivating, pushing, and encouraging you to move in the direction that you want to go, not those who are stifling your growth or your process or trying to hold you back, right? Certainly you don't need a community of just yes people, you know, just going along with whatever you say. You need people

who are going to challenge you and who are going to call you out when you may not be doing what you need to be doing, when your actions don't reflect the goals that you've expressed, or when you're not doing things to help you improve yourself performance-wise or just kind of live the life that you want to live. But you also need to make sure that you have some people who are motivating and encouraging so that during those times when your internal self-talk may not be the greatest, you have a team around you that can try to help pull you through that. So being very well aware of your network. For sure. It reminds me of the Jim Rohn quote that you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with. So I think that's really important. Absolutely. Yeah. So then the

final part of brand is D. Tell us what D stands for. So the D is dream. And when I talk about dream here, I'm really, for me, it's just a synonym to setting goals, basically, is, you know, everything that you're creating, right? So the beliefs that serve as your foundation, the way you're taking responsibility for your experience and moving that forward or taking ownership of whatever experience that you have and how you're demonstrating respect for your experience, yourself and others in that process, your attitude, the network that you have around that is all that moving you in the direction that you want to go,

right? Is it moving you towards your dream, whatever that dream may be? And for this acronym, you need to specify what that dream is this kind of ties back for me to to the when I had the career transition I didn't have any dreams at that point I thought I had reached the pinnacle I was working on a college counseling center and I was done so I stopped setting goals for myself at that point and I think that for the elite performer there's always something that they're working towards, always something that they are striving for that kind of guides them. And so that's where the dream comes in is just are the things that you're doing helping

you to move in the direction that you want to go? Are you achieving the things that you want to achieve? And if you're not, well, then reroute, right? Like make the adjustment so that you can be headed in that direction. But I think it's really important for us to know where we want to go so that we'll know when we get there, right? Because otherwise, we're just striving, right? And so that's where the dream comes into play.

And I would think that, you know, just as I'm listening to you talk and I'm thinking about myself and, you know, the B-R-A-N-D, I'm assuming one of the benefits of thinking about each of these answers for yourself is to be more intentional with how you're showing up and, you know, more likely to be able to reach that end goal. Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, the benefits of what you've seen in other people in terms of being really clear on what this brand is and how it's impacted people? Maybe a story, although you don't have to tell us that person's name.

Yeah. So I think in general what I will say is I think it gives the person a greater sense of control over the experience that they're having. So the first couple of acronyms, so the beliefs and the respect and the responsibility and the attitude makes them think about who am I and how do I want to be? So just like Nike,

what do I want people to think about when they think about me? And am I showing up in such a way to make that happen, right? And so I really think that creates some internal introspection, if you will, that allows them to really think about if I am presenting myself in the way I want to. And I think the last two, so for the network and the dream, that's where you think about who you're

surrounding yourself with, and if I'm moving where I want to go, but all of it together, I think, gives an individual a greater sense of control over their experience, so that things seem like they're less happening by just happenstance, but rather, they can feel like they have more of a role in creating the life and the path that they want, knowing that there are some unexpected things that may happen without question, but still they can have a direction and a guiding philosophy, if you will, that will pull them back to continue on in the way that they want to go. That's the biggest thing that I've seen is they just feel like they have more control in different aspects of their experience than they may have originally thought they did. Excellent. You know, Kenza, first of all, I love that idea of this brand acronym.

And I'd encourage everyone to answer these questions that you asked us to consider. I'd encourage them to ask, you know, answer them for themselves to really think about, you know, being intentional with how they want to show up. So I really enjoyed that about what you've shared today. I also really enjoyed the story about what you're saying about how, which is maybe your, your, your biggest failure of being laid off and that you said, you know, that sometimes these opportunities can come in unexpected packages and that, you know, the path and the pathway to success isn't the straight line. Like maybe we'd want it to be. Can you, yeah. so I'm just appreciative that you shared your insights with us.

What final advice would you have for those high performers who are listening? So, these people who really want to master their mindset and, you know, know this, there's a next level for them. Yeah, I think one of the biggest things, like I said a little bit earlier, was when I think about what makes people and performers great, two big things come to mind. I've already said one, and that's being able to make the adjustment, right? To recognize that failure, disappointment, setback, things just not going the way you want them to go, that is all a part of the process. And being able to shift and make the adjustment when that happens, as opposed to getting stuck in that moment, is a really critical component to help people move to the next level. And the other thing that comes to mind for me is that consistency and the consistency

of maximizing each moment and each opportunity right and so I think kind of back to that that patience to stay present your control is in the right now you cannot change the past no matter how much we think about it you just can't do it we can't go back and change it I know that you know Dr. Strange and Marvel movies he can change time time, we cannot, right? And so I think accepting that we can't do that, no matter how super we may be in our respective performance areas, we cannot stop or change time. So learning from the past, not living in it, right? Preparing for the future, right? Not again, obsessing about it, but recognizing that the control lives now. So what you consistently do in terms of your day-to-day training and preparation is what allows

you to create the future that you want. So being right here in this moment, maximizing this moment, being consistent from day-to-day in how you show up and what you do. Mastering the details is kind of what I say there. And then being able to make the adjustments are the tidbits, I guess, that I would leave you all with. Ah, love it. I'm going to repeat that. So we want to learn from the past, but not live in it and prepare for the future, but not worry about it. Yeah. Outstanding. So I know people are going to have some questions for you, Kenza. Tell us how we can reach out to you on social media or, you know, any other ways that we can reach out to you. Yeah. So I have a website. So my website is drkenzagunter.com. So the doctor is

D-R and then my first name, K-E-N-S-A-G-U-N-T-E-R.com. And I'm also, in terms of social media platforms, I'm most active on Twitter, and my handle is at Dr. Kenza. So again, D-R-K-E-N-S-A, and people can find me there. Awesome. So if you're looking for somebody to help you with the mental game or, you know, in terms of supporting with you with some psychological services, you should reach out to Kenza. We would also love to hear from you on social media. So if there is a question you have for Kenza, I think we could have, you know, talked with you two or three more hours, Kenza. So people are asking that I didn't have time to ask. So we'd encourage you to head over to Twitter.

And again, Kenza's Twitter handle is DrKenza, and you can find me at Mentally underscore Strong. So Kenza, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm grateful that you're here to share with your wisdom to the listeners. Well, I'm so grateful for the opportunity to speak with you and to speak to your listening audience. My sincere hope is that something said has been helpful, but I really appreciate you Well, I'm so grateful for the opportunity to speak with you and to speak to your listening audience. My sincere hope is that something said has been helpful, but I really appreciate you for providing this platform to have this exchange because that's what I see it as an exchange. So thank you.

Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset. If you like today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend and join the conversation on Twitter at Mentally Underscore Strong. For more inspiration and to receive Sindra's free weekly videos, check out DrSindra.com.