High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 222: What the Best Do Differently

Episode Date: December 14, 2018

Dr. Katy Tran Turner currently serves as the Mental Performance Coach for the Buffalo Sabres and Buffalo Bills. Her primary role in this position is helping players and coaches optimize their performance by applying psychological skills and she supports the organization's efforts to optimize the performance environment. Katy also worked with Soldiers and their families at Fort Bragg, NC as part of the Comprehensive Soldier and Family Fitness program. Katy earned her doctorate in Sport and Exercise Psychology from Florida State University, her master's degree in Exercise Physiology from Kent State University, and her undergraduate degrees in Biology and Exercise & Sport Science from UNC-Chapel Hill, where she played goalie for the varsity field hockey team. Her areas of research interest are in performance enhancement techniques, team coordination, and leadership development. In this interview, Katy and Cindra talk about: * The differences she sees in the mindset between NFL and NHL athletes * The importance of a pre-performance routine * How the best implement the mental game * What the best do different related to the mental game * How to “park it” * How her dissertation research informs her practice Tweets:  "One of the things that I've learned really from the guys that I work with is, it doesn't matter if you just made the best play ever, you can't dwell on that either. It doesn't matter if you just made the worst play ever, you can't dwell on that either. it's all about learning and moving forward and then preparing for the next play that's coming at you." - Dr. Katy Tran Turner  "I'm just going to parking lot it and come back to it later, I'm just going to park it for now and revisit it later. And then the next important step is refocusing on something that is task relevant coming up in the next play." - Dr. Katy Tran Turner "The social nature of sport changes the way that we think, it changes the way we make decisions, it changes the way we process information." - Dr. Katy Tran Turner "The way an individual makes a decision or processes information is different when they are surrounded by their teammates." - Dr. Katy Tran Turner  "What do you know about your teammates' preferences and tendencies? Because if you now those preferences and tendencies then you can help them process information and make decisions faster because you know what they are going to do. And likewise they know what you're going to do if you share that information really INTENTIONALLY." - Dr. Katy Tran Turner  "If you're building something knew [culture] it has to be delivered from every angle...I have found that it is really helpful when it comes from everyone. Not just the head coach, not just form the leadership group, but also the support staff." - Dr. Katy Tran Turner  You can find a full description of the Podcast at cindrakamphoff.com/katy

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Sindra Kampoff, and I'm grateful that you're here, ready to listen to episode 219 with Dr. Katie Tron Turner. Now, the goal of these interviews is to learn from the world's best. The world's best coaches, athletes, consultants, or leaders, all about the topic of mindset

to help us be high performers in our field or our sport. Now, before I head over to introduce you to Dr. Katie, I'm gonna read a rating and a review from iTunes. So this is from Paul Furtaw, and he said, one of the best platforms for pushing my knowledge of performance psychology principles that I've came across it also doesn't hurt that I can tune in during my work commute thank you so much Paul for heading over to iTunes and leaving us a rating five star rating and a

review and if you enjoyed today's episode I'd love for you to head over there wherever you're listening on iTunes iHeartRadio or anywhere else that you're listening today and provide a rating and review. This will just help us reach more and more people each week. Now in today's interview, I talked to Dr. Katie Tron Turner, who is currently a mental performance coach for the Buffalo Sabres and the Buffalo Bills. Her primary role in this position is to help players and coaches optimize their performance while applying psychological skills where she supports the organization's effort to optimize the performance environment. She's also worked with soldiers and their families at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, where she was a part of the Comprehensive Soldier and Family Fitness Program.

She earned her doctorate in sport and exercise psychology from Florida State University, her master's in exercise physiology from Kent State University, and her undergraduate degree from the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill, where she played goalie for the varsity field hockey team. In today's conversation, Katie and I talk about a variety of things. We talk about the difference that she sees in terms of implementing mindset between NFL and NHL athletes. She talks about the importance of a pre-performance routine, how the best implement the mental game, and what she sees that the best do differently related to the mental game. She talks about how her research informs her practice.

And then we talk about the best ways to let go of mistakes or park it. My favorite part of this conversation is when we're talking about what the best do differently related to the mental game. She says how the best are working on getting better every day. They are dialed in and not just going through the motions. So I look forward to hearing what you have to say about today's interview. You can head over to Twitter, Facebook, or Instagram, wherever that you connect on social media. And you can find me there by searching Cinder Campoff or on Twitter. I'm at Mentally Underscore Strong.

So Katie and I look forward to hearing what you think about this interview today. And without further ado, let's bring on Katie. Welcome to the podcast. I'm really excited today to be joined by Dr. Katie Tron Turner. How are you doing, Katie? I'm doing great. Thanks so much for having me on today. I'm really excited about this. I'm really excited to talk to you and learn more about your position and a little bit more about the research you've done during your dissertation.

So I'm just really looking forward to a great conversation. So thanks so much for being on the podcast. Sure. Thank you for having me. Well, let's start and let's just tell us a little bit about your passion and what you do right now, Katie. So my passion, I gave a little bit of thought to this question is helping folks have aha moments. I find that to be the most exciting part of the work that I get to do with athletes and coaches is helping folks learn either about themselves or about their perception of situations

or, you know, build that self-awareness and that they can really have moments that lead to an aha of, wow, like I could do something differently, or this is what's working for me, or I need to get back to that in order to be at my best. So that's really what I'm most passionate about. And right now, I'm fortunate to get to do that with some folks that are really, really great at what they do, both hockey players in the NHL with the Buffalo Sabres and football players in the NFL with the Buffalo Bills. Yeah, nice. Outstanding. Well, I love that because I think about when you go into a conversation or an individual meeting or a coach's meeting or a leadership meeting, if your goal is really to, you know, enable them to have an aha moment, you go in maybe a little bit more deeper and present

than if it's, okay, I want to teach them this mental skill. So I love that. Absolutely. Yeah. And it's, I think it brings the curiosity to the work that we do. That's pretty fun because it's like we're discovering and we're learning and growing constantly, which is always fun. Absolutely. So Katie, tell us a little bit about, you know, how you got to where you are now in your career, you know, with the Bills and the Sabres. Tell us a little bit about, you know, maybe where you started, your interest in the profession of performance psychology and how you got to where you are now. So my journey started probably like a lot of folks. I was an athlete myself in college and And I was a goalkeeper. I played at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. I played field hockey. And my freshman

year, actually, I took Dr. John Silva's sports psychology class. And it was fascinating. And I just couldn't learn enough. I thought it was so interesting. I actually took the class with my older sister who was also on the field hockey team and also a goalie. She was she's three years older than me so we were in the class together. I kept in touch with Doc Silva throughout you know my time at Chapel Hill and then I went on to grad school at Kent State University and I thought I wanted to go into sort of the medical direction, physical therapist or physician assistant and so I was doing a master's degree in exercise physiology while I was rehabbing from a pretty big knee injury and thought I would keep playing

maybe for a little while afterwards you could try out for the national team or something like that but as I was coaching, I was a graduate assistant coach while I was doing my master's. And as I was coaching, you know, we were applying a lot of the stuff that I was learning in my master's and ex-fils. You know, how do you train athletes physically? You know, how can we optimize their physical performance? And there were a couple of occasions where we had athletes who essentially choked under pressure and underperformed and it had nothing to do with their physical

preparation. You know, they physically, they felt great. They knew they, you know, they, they had trained really hard. They had all the physical tools and I didn't know what to help them in those moments. And I felt like, you know, I could draw on my own experiences, but I, I felt like there you know, I could draw on my own experiences, but I felt like there's got to be more to this. It can't just be me sharing my experience. There's got to be techniques or skills or, you know, things that I could help teach the athletes to help them handle these moments. So I reached back out to Doc Silva and, you know, asked him information about the

field of sport psychology and what it would look like. I decided to go back and do my PhD at Florida State University in sport and exercise psychology. And that was where I realized I found a huge interest in my life. I did all the reading in school, you know, like I never used to do before. I read all the articles and all the book doctors and just couldn't get enough of it. Did my degree there, ended up working at a university, a division one university in North Carolina called Campbell University as an academic advisor for student athletes and doing a little bit of student athlete services as well while I finished my dissertation and then was called and asked if I was interested

in applying for a job with the CSF2 program, the Comprehensive Folder and Family Fitness Program at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. So I took that opportunity and I tell folks all the time that that work was probably the greatest privilege that I've ever had was to support our service members and their family and had a great team there at Fort Bragg that I got to work with of other practitioners where I really got to grow, stretch myself, and then was contacted about the opportunity at the Buffalo Sabres after about three years working with the Army. So I was invited up for an interview, interviewed with the head coach at the time, and asked me the position,

and now I'm going into my fourth year with the Sabres. Last year, the owners of the Buffalo Sabres are the Pagoulas, Terry and Kim Pagoula, and they own the Buffalo Bills as well. So last year, I was asked if it would be possible if I had interest in providing support for the Bills as well, since they're, you know, under the same ownership group, there's a couple of other folks that share across both organizations, so I got the chance to meet with the head coach and talk with him, and felt like it was a great opportunity, so I started about, you know, started off-season with the Bills as well, supporting them. Awesome, Cool. Yeah, no doubt. I could only imagine two pro teams, you know. So, you know, what I hear in your story is a few different things that, you know, someone like John Silva,

who is legendary in our field, right? That he was an early influence of you. I think that's really cool. But that you were, you know, doing the work as a coach and it was like the, maybe the situations that you didn't know what to do that really led you to the career that you're in. So I thought that was cool. And then, you know, I think a lot of people get their start in pro sport and they work with the army first, right? And so many different examples of that in our field. But I think that gives you a really good experience to be able to try new things. And it sounds like a really supportive atmosphere there.

It was. It was incredible. I think when I left, there was 12 of us working at Fort Bragg together out of the same office, the same training center. And it was the best experience in terms of collaborating and sharing ideas and challenging each other. And, you know, you really had to know your stuff and stay up with the literature because you were at work

with a bunch of other folks that also knew the literature. So we were all really challenging each other and giving each other feedback. So it was a great way to grow. Yeah, how is it different now, kind of being the only person, you know, doing performance psychology work at the Sabres and the Bills? You know, sometimes I think if you're anything like me, right, I'm here actually at the Viking Students interview with you and it can be really lonely.

So I think it's important that we have, you know, support of colleagues like you. Absolutely. That was probably one of the biggest adjustments that I made in my first year at the Sabres was being on my own and then even with the you know I'm part of the integrated performance team which is incredible I learned so much from our strength coaches and our medical staff and our sports scientists and our dietitians our sports dietitians so I learned so much from them about performance holistically and yet I kept finding that I was sort of alone in my field, in my profession, which was, it is a little bit lonely.

And I think it challenges you to really force yourself to make sure that you're not just getting comfortable and continuing to stay current with what's going on in literature and in the peer-reviewed journals, for sure. So tell us a little bit about, Katie, like your responsibilities with the Sabres and the Bills. So maybe let's start there. Sure. So on the Sabres side, I spend a lot of time probably working with individual athletes. I also work with our minor league affiliate in Rochester, the Rochester Americans. So I do individual work. I do a little bit of teamwork, more so in Rochester, doing team level workshops. One of the initiatives that we were working through this year is continue to

develop our leadership group at both levels. So I spend some time working with our leaders who, you know, not only worry about their own performance, but also have the additional responsibility of leading others and influencing others in a positive direction. And then spend time collaborating with our performance team to make sure that our processes and systems are reinforcing the, you know, mental principles that will help our athletes be at their best, and also some of the cultural and team principles that we are, you know, supporting with our athletes. On the bill side, it's pretty similar. I work

individually with athletes. I do some collaboration with their, you know, strength and conditioning department and medical staff there. But I spend a lot more time probably working with the player engagement department, working with our director of player engagement, supporting our rookies in particular during their transition, and also supporting some of the leadership work with the Bills players as well. Nice. Outstanding. with the with the Bills players as well. Nice outstanding so you get you know really good experience at both you know NHL and NFL in terms of at the highest level. Tell us a little bit about what differences do you see between kind of the NHL and the NFL in terms of mindset or you know some of these performance principles that we talk about? I think one of the biggest differences would be what I would call sort of the level of planning that is required for the, for like executing performance for both

sports. Football, you know, the nature of the sport, there's more breaks in the play, more structure, more, you know, set plays that are going to be run on offense or defensive schemes that are going to be executed. And there's more time to, in between the actions, so to speak, to explicitly plan those things out and decide what you're going to do after the next snap of the ball. Whereas in hockey, it's actually the fastest team sport in the ball. Whereas in hockey, it's, you know, actually the fastest team sport in the world. So there's much less time to explicitly plan what's going to happen. So I find the players are much more in the moment in terms of reading and reacting and trying to plan too much for them

can almost slow things down in terms of decision making. So although both sports have the read and react component, like when the ball is live, you have to read and see what's going on in football as well. I think the biggest difference in terms of mindset is the fast-paced, ongoing nature of hockey. I would also say some of the interesting differences are hockey is played in shifts. So you're over the boards for 30 or 40 seconds, 45 seconds, and then back on the bench. So you have those short moments like bursts of time where you're on the ice, go, go, go, and then on the bench kind of debrief kind of debriefing, but then getting ready to go

again. Football, I guess they're sort of similar, but it's different in terms of the ongoing flow. You know, you have more phases, the offense, defense, special teams in those different phases, and not quite as much quick changeover between them. For sure. Yeah. So Katie, how would you tell us that impacts your work when you think about working with the players maybe individually

and helping them build their mental skills or mental tools? How do you see that impacting, just the nature of the sport, impacting what you do? I think in terms of on the football side, the pre-performance routines are really powerful in terms of having a, you know, short, quick pre-performance routine for right before each snap. Something obviously that's not going to take too long, but sets the condition, sets your mind, sets your body, gets you comfortable and makes sure you've checked off all the things on, you know, your checklist of reads that you have to make before the snap of the ball. Whereas with hockey, there is so much less time for that before you would

hop over the board that we focus more on the work with those guys. A lot of times I focus more on distilling things down to a couple of key self-talk words or phrases, as opposed to, you know, they don't really have as much time for even a short pre-performance routine. So with the hockey guys, it's a lot of identifying a couple of key phrases that, you know, instructional or motivational self-talk type cues to get them in the state that they're going to be optimally performing and focusing on the things they need to focus on. Where in football, there's a little more time for a routine. Absolutely. Can you give us some examples of what

some of the self-talk cues or phrases might be? Obviously, with not telling us who? Sure. Yeah, so a lot of times for the hockey guys, it's around the style of play that they want to bring or, you know, a couple of key characteristics or qualities for them to embody. So physical, move your feet, and, you know, hunt the puck are a couple of examples that guys might say, you know, as they're going over the board that's sort of their pre-performance routine but it's more just a real distilled down quick reminder play physical move your feet hunt the puck to keep the game simple for them and it seems to

allow them more you know cognitive space to then read and react and go with the flow of the game more so outstanding love that. Love that example. So Katie, when you think about, you know, your work in the NFL, NHL, I'm just working with some of the best, right? I mean, they wouldn't be there if they weren't the best. What do you see you do differently, you know, in terms of mindset or the people that stay at the NFL or NHL, meaning, you know, at least here, what I see is that, you know, a lot of players who come and come and go, right? They there's always roster changes, but the people that you see, what, what do you see them do differently

in terms of the mental game? Another great question. I would say on both sides, from both sports, it's really important for the athletes to establish consistent professional habits and routines and I I didn't that's sort of a buzzword I guess but what that means is you know getting enough sleep the night before and then getting up at a consistent time and coming into the rink or into the training facility, you know, on the football side and, you know, getting your work in early and having a consistent pattern of behaviors to take care of your body, to eat appropriately and, you know, nutritionally fueling yourself to be at your best and take care of your mind as well. The ones that are, you know, that stay around longer i think establish these routines that are

really consistent and not just rituals not just oh i did it because i was lucky it's it's more of an informed decision of i need to take care of my body i need to get up at this time and do this this and this to make sure that i feel good physically you know on the football side i need to review these clips and these videos and on the hockey side i need to same thing watch these clips of shifts and things like that and make sure that i'm doing those things consistently every single day i think their warm-up routine the way that they you know manage their preparation before practice and their approach to practice is really impressive as well those guys who those guys who you can tell are just dialed in. They are not just going through the motions of practice or doing what they're told.

They're out there purposefully practicing. They're practicing the purpose, and they are focusing on getting better at something every single day. I would say, in general, the guys who I had an athlete say to me one time, I don't want to just get by. I want to get better. And those are the guys who they stick around a little bit longer. They're not just meeting the status quo and doing enough.

They're constantly looking at how they can get better, learning about themselves, learning about what works for them, and continuing to push themselves to improve. Nice. So really, growth mindset. That's what I'm hearing. You just continually learn and get better. Yeah, absolutely. So one of the questions I have is you kind of talked to us about the differences between the NHL and the NFL. What are some similarities that you might see between, you know,

how to be really great at both of those levels? And you kind of mentioned some of those, but is there anything else that you might see between, you know, how to be really great at both of those levels. And you kind of mentioned some of those, but is there anything else that you'd add? So I guess another difference that just went through my head again would be sort of the schedule as well. With hockey, we play 82 games, so they play about every other day, whereas football, as you know, it's once a week. So you have a whole week of preparation for one big moment on Sunday or Monday or whatever day. So from a mental standpoint, I think it almost forces hockey players to refocus faster on the next game and sort of move forward to the next game because they only have one day to prepare and then they're on to the next game. Whereas football players that usually have, you know, a day of debrief, a little bit longer to digest it, and then more time to prepare for the upcoming game. So that's

definitely another difference. I would say the similarity for both sports is that they have to be able to move on. They have to be able to take every game as a new game, every shift as a new shift, every snap as a new snap, and move on quickly, whether it was a successful last shift or last play or whether it was a mistake or an error or a miscue. And that's one of the things that I really learned from the guys that I work with is it doesn't matter if you just made the best play ever. You can't dwell on that either. It doesn't matter if you just made the worst play ever. You can't dwell on that either. It's all about learning and moving forward

and then preparing for the next play that's coming at you. So when you see the best of the best do that, you know, like when you said they can move on really quickly, they can learn, and then they can let go. How do you see them do that from a mental standpoint? I think some of them work at it more, and others have developed it as, you know, more of a habit. The thing that seems to work best is trying to see if there's time, what can I learn from that, you know, mistake or that positive play that just happened. If there's not time, the awareness and the willingness to say, I'm just going to parking lot it and I'll come back to it later. You know, I'm going to like just park it for now and I'll revisit it.

And then the next important step is refocusing on something task relevant coming up in the next play. And, you know, for the hockey guys, it may be some of those cues that I was referring to earlier, some of that instructional self-talk. For the football guys, it may be, you know, again, instructional and task focused. This is what I have to do. This is the job. This is the play. This is my role right here and now. So that they're now fully present in the current play, in the present moment, and helps them move forward from anything that happened in the past. Absolutely. And I remember, you know, the interview that you did at ASP, where you guys were talking about the importance of moving on and refocusing on task-relevant

cues. And I can't remember if you said it or how, but I remember thinking of that. And I think that's a really important point that you just mentioned. It's like awareness that you need to park it, right? Awareness that you'll have time, so you got to let it be, and then move on to something that's relevant to your performance, and the task relevant is not outcome, right? It's more about the process. Exactly. It's not about what's going to happen next, or the consequence. It's just about, you know, something about instructional for this moment. What do I need to do? Focus on the process, to your point, definitely. Yeah, yeah, outstanding. So is there anything, you know, else you'd like to tell us about your work, you know, in those different spaces before we kind of move on to talk about your dissertation

research? No, I think, I mean, the only thing I would say is I think that it's worth folks always being aware that as great as it seems to these professional athletes, it is challenging for them as well. And that's one of the things that I've really come to appreciate. They make a lot of sacrifices and they commit an incredible amount of time and energy and effort to their craft. And, you know, today's Halloween, you know, and some of the guys were missing their trick-or-treating with their kids and stuff like that. And, and that's part of the sacrifices that they make, and they don't complain about it. I just find that as someone that, you know, works now behind the curtain, I think it is worth noting to folks that there are a lot of sacrifices that are made when folks are striving to achieve

something incredibly great. Absolutely. And I think also to your point, like they're human. And at least, you know, after a game, what I see, you know, cause sometimes I'm on Twitter and I like just to look at that once in a while, but there's so much hate that can come at them as well. And, you know, they're, they're sometimes their failures are on, you know, the world's biggest stages. And I think being compassionate with them too, that they're human, I think is really important. Absolutely. That's such a great point. They're definitely humans as well. Yeah. So Katie,

tell us a little bit about your dissertation research on team coordination. Let's start there. Sure. So I was really fortunate to have an awesome major professor, Dr. David Eccles, who helped me shape my research. I was really interested in research on team and team dynamics. And I found that a lot of that research in the field was around sort of the social aspects, cohesion and collective efficacy and, you know, social relationships. But I also was very interested in the cognitive processes that are involved with expert performance. And Dr. Eccles helped me to shape the research on team coordination to look at cognitive processes in athletes who are situated in an interdependent team sport. So meaning we have to look at things like decision making and information processing. Usually we look at it in a lab when we're researching it with athletes.

But we have to look at it in the social context because the social nature of sport changes the way that we think. It changes the way that we make decisions. It changes the way that we process information. So it was a really fun research, which I never thought I would say that about a dissertation, but I really did enjoy it. And it was, some of the findings were really interesting as well you know specifically the finding that the way an individual makes a decision or process of information is different when they're surrounded by their teammates so the best example of that would be you know a hockey player defenseman going back to retrieve the puck he's skating back towards his own goal so his back

is up ice and he should shoulder check and kind of take a look and gather information about what's going on up ice, but at the same time, he has to skate towards the puck and focus on the puck. So if he were by himself, he wouldn't be able to gather as much information, and so his cognitive processes would be limited. But fortunately, he has teammates. Specifically, he has a defensive partner who can verbally communicate to him to either tell him what to do with the puck or give him additional information that he wouldn't be able to gather on his own. So the fact that he has a defensive partner changes the way that that defenseman processes information, the decision he makes before he even gets the puck, and helps him

overcome the limitations of one human being's cognitive processing, which is pretty cool. Yeah. So when you think about how that applies to what you see at the highest level in the NFL or NHL, tell us how maybe that finding informs your research or in your practice, I mean. Yeah, no, yes. How is it applied? I think one of the biggest things to consider is that it's really important

that the athletes are all on the same page in terms of what the plan is, big picture or micro level. What's the plan is, big picture or micro level, what's the plan, so that they know what information to communicate to help enhance the information processing. So a lot of the work that coaches do in terms of game planning and communicating strategies, helping to make sure that that's delivered at the level that's going to help everyone be on the same page. And that applies on the field, you know, in terms of technical tactical,

but also in terms of the identity of the team and the culture of our team. Are we all on the same page? Do we have, you know, what they would call in the literature, a shared mental model about, you know, who we are as a team and what our culture is about as a team. Helping to establish that clarity and that shared understanding is actually really important and really difficult because every person has their own perspectives. And I think part of the work that I do and probably a lot of folks working in embedded in a team is help to ensure that there's clarity in the messaging

and the identity in the culture in the leadership groups mission and in you know obviously I don't know the technical and tactical in detail but helping with that messaging as well so that's a big part and then also helping encourage athletes to get to know each other not just socially, but also what do you know about your teammates' preferences and tendencies? Because if you know those preferences and tendencies, then you can help them process information and make decisions faster because you know what they're going to do. And likewise, they know what you're going to do if you guys share that kind of information really intentionally.

Absolutely. Good, good. So kind of two follow up questions I'd have from that is when you think about, right, these shared mental models and having clarity and messaging and culture and even kind of the best practices on how to do that? You know, because I think for somebody looking out, right, like that's wow to impact a culture or change a culture or, you know, just impact messaging, you know, people might be thinking, wow, how do you even do that? Yeah, well, I would say it's something that has to be established early. So taking the time during pre-season or off-season or whatever that is early on in your team season to establish, you know, a common understanding of, you know, what is our identity? What direction are we going in? What are our cultural norms and expectations? So taking the time to really nail those things down. And I've been saying this a lot to folks lately, but I read recently in John Cotter's book, Leading Change, they talk about the fact that when we're talking about changes or identity, we should actually talk about it at least 10 times more than we do, maybe even 100 times more than we do. And so when folks think, oh, yeah, we've done that, check, you know, I can check it off the list, we've established our culture or identity.

That's just the first of 100 more times that you have to revisit it. So I think sometimes the focus is on the ice or on the field and the preparation that goes into it because it's so demanding. At the same time, we really do need to commit time. And that doesn't mean hours of time. That means 10 minute reminders consistently to revisit that messaging and make sure that no one's mental model has strayed too far away from what the shared mental model is. That's really, really important. And when you, when I'm thinking about how that takes place, right, I'm thinking, do those 10-minute reminders come from coaches, from leaders on the team? So it might be the captains or whoever's in the leadership group, or it could come from the GM or, you know, how are you seeing those messages impact culture?

Absolutely. It does. It comes from all over. And I think when you're building culture, so let me back up. I guess a lot of times folks think about like established culture and that it's just automatic. It's just what we do. And when cultures are established, that's very true. You know, you come into an environment and it's super clear what the expectations are. But if you're building something new, it has to be delivered from every angle. And those messages are a lot of times reminders about this is what our standard is and highlighting when people do things right like this is an example of what our standard looks like and highlighting sometimes when things aren't good enough you know this wasn't our standard this is what we need to change and I found that it's really helpful when it does come from everyone

not just the head coach not just the leadership leadership group, but also the support staff, also the leadership group, but everyone is sort of talking the same language and giving those little messages or reminders that you hear those common words coming out. That's when you know that you've really started to build a culture that's going to be sustaining. And when you think about how you said that the messaging needs to be established early, what do you see in terms of best practices of like, right. There's so many different moving parts and you just listed all these different types of people who might influence athletes and performance.

How do you see, you know, the, the messaging? Well, do you see, it's like, you know, the coaches who come up with the messaging and then, then it's, you know, communicated to the support staff or how do you see that's like you know the coaches who come up with the messaging and then then it's you know communicated to the support staff or how do you see that best being done there or just you know in your in your opinion yeah I think the I think the coach and ask and probably leadership group or core group of athletes together probably best can dictate the the culture and the identity of the team. And that's going to vary team to team what that interaction looks like. But once it's been established, I think it is, you know, folks like us who work sort

of as support people, but interact with the coaches and interact with the players quite a bit, we can help to spread the message. I find that's a lot of what I do with our performance teams is help to share this is what the leadership group has been identifying as the team's identity and the things that are important to them. So helping to facilitate some of those sharing of information and some of those conversations. But I do think that it is a matter of, you know,

either leadership group or coaches disseminating that identity to everyone consistently. And that way it's not just the playing group themselves, but they're surrounded by an entire environment that is supporting the culture and the identity that they want to embody on the ice or on the field. Love it. Love it. Outstanding. Good. You gave me a lot to think about, which is good. Katie, I'm thinking about, right. So some people who are listening might say, wow, you know, I'd really love to do some work at, you know,

the professional level, particularly maybe if I've had the, obviously the training, the degrees, right. Like I think that helps, or I think that's essential to be honest. So, you know, what advice would you give to people who maybe want to do similar work to what you're doing? The first thing I say is wherever you are now, do really, really great work.

Do the best work that you can and continue to grow and seek advice and feedback and mentorship from other folks in the field. That's pretty much where I started, I would say. So I'd say wherever you are, start, you know, do great work where you are and then be open to opportunities and um i i didn't start out in my career saying i want to work in the nhl but when the opportunity came i thought i was a little intimidated to be honest and i said okay like this is a moment for me to stretch myself and challenge myself and see can i take on this big challenge? So being open to those opportunities.

I think it's also worth noting that I think it's not always glamorous working with professional athletes. And it is a really intense schedule and intense calendar that you're in, like every single day working with these athletes 24 7 kind of schedule so make sure that you are prepared for that and that you and your family or important people in your life are you know well equipped to help you balance that and manage that so that is definitely a challenge but it starts with being really really good wherever you are and then being ready to take on opportunities

and take on challenges, no matter how sort of intimidating they might see at the time. Absolutely, yeah, I like, I like your description of just, like, continuing to grow and improve and get out of your comfort zone, try new populations to work with, yeah, and then, Katie, my next question for you would be, you know, when, when to you and I go back to your purpose, you know, providing aha moments. When you think about what fuels you to do the work, what would you say your why is being a part, just a small part of helping other people discover more about themselves so that they can be the best version of themselves. And for me, I think, you know, I was just talking to a colleague about this earlier. Sometimes we think like, OK, it's just sport, right? At the end of the day, it's the game. So for me, it's not about the game necessarily. It's about the person playing the

game. And it's about them being the best version of themselves and, you know, being happy and being thriving and enjoying the experience and the challenges as hard as they can be sometimes helping them to develop the skills that will allow them to do that and that's that's really what gets me out of bed in the morning you know it's not I know we are in a production business it is wins and losses and performance on the ice on the field that's important but that's not what gets me out of bed let's get what gets me out of bed is like having a chance to to work with these guys and and talk skills with them and help them have aha moments that are going to help them enjoy their life and be better husbands and fathers and brothers and uncles and you know

like just enjoy it and then thrive as a result of that. Love it. And I like, I think what's important that you just said is like, enjoy the experiences and the challenges. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Because there's going to be challenges. There will be right. And I think our,

our natural tendency is to not enjoy them. And I was thinking as you were talking about what something that might be a challenge for me and how can I- Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset. If you liked today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend and join the conversation on Twitter at mentally underscore strong. For more inspiration and to receive Sindra's free weekly videos, check out drsindra.com. And I want to tell you a few things that really stood out to me about the interview as a way to summarize it, but also just to kind of come back to sharing how grateful I am that you're here with us. So I thought your purpose of having an aha moment was really powerful.

It helps you connect with curiosity, which I liked that part of what you said. Also, when you were talking about what the best do differently and you're talking about how they have really established professional habits and routines. And then you said something about how they're getting better every single day. And you quoted an athlete who said, you know, I don't want to get by. I want to get better. So I thought that was really powerful. And then when you were talking about how the best can move on really quickly and the way to do that is to, you know, if you don't have time, it is to park it, right? Let it sit. You don't have time to really think about it.

But then, you know, to focus on a task-re or something that's task relevant. So they're not thinking about the outcome or the consequences. And then the last thing would be about establishing a culture and maybe changing a culture. And what you said about John Potter's work of that it takes, you know, not 10 times where you talk about the messaging or the culture that you want to create, but a hundred. So I thought that was really cool. So thank you so much for joining us today. I'm really grateful. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. I was really excited to be on your podcast. I've listened to it before and it's great. So I'm really privileged to be a part of it. I love how it's a place where people can go for wisdom like yours

and a place where they can learn and more about mindset. So I'm grateful. So how could people reach out to you, Katie, if they want to learn more about you or if they're listening and they're like, oh, I have a question for her. I actually am not on social media, which is kind of funny. My husband gives me a hard time about that all the time. So probably if they wanted to email me, that would be easiest. My personal email is ktran26. So it's k-t-r-a-n-2-6 at gmail.com. So that's probably the easiest way to get in touch with me. And I'm happy to connect with folks if they have questions or want to talk sports bike

I'm always happy to have those conversations Outstanding, thank you so much Katie Sure, thank you thanks a lot, I appreciate it