High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 271: How to Overcome Mental Roadblocks in Your Entrepreneurial Journey with Joe Trodden, Mindset Expert

Episode Date: August 25, 2019

Joe Trodden has been a mindset coach for nine years and with a specific focus on entrepreneurs for the last five, working with around 300 across all sectors. They come to Joe to work on the next level of their strategy growth and to develop their mindset to become effective entrepreneurial leaders. Joe believes that mindset is the single biggest factor in success for entrepreneurs. The journey is incredibly difficult at this stage and is often a tipping point as to whether the business will reach its full potential. For that to happen, it is the leader that has to accelerate their own development. As we discuss in this episode, the brain employs subconscious processes which have to be surfaced if an entrepreneur is to become the best version of themselves. Joe’s work is about linking the neuroscience of mindset development to practical actions and enable entrepreneurs to work through defined stages of leveling themselves up.  In this podcast, Joe and Cindra talk about: The mindset barriers of an entrepreneur How to understand your superpowers and kryptonite The top question to ask yourself when you experience fear 4 powerful reflection questions to ask yourself each week How to label your emotions to process it You can find a full description of the Podcast at cindrakamphoff.com/joe.

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Dr. Sindra Kampoff, and I'm excited today that you are here, ready to listen to episode 271 with Joe Trotten. Now, if you know that mindset is essential to your success, then this is the podcast for you. Each week we explore various topics related to mindset to really help you be your best self more often. And today I had the

privilege of interviewing Joe Trottin. Now Joe has been a mindset coach in the UK for nine years, with a specific focus on entrepreneurs for the last five years, working with around 300 across all sectors. And they come to Joe to work on the next level of their strategy growth and to develop their mindset to become the most effective entrepreneurial leaders that they can be. Now, Joe believes that mindset is the single biggest factor in success for entrepreneurs. And the journey is incredibly difficult, especially at the early stages. And there's often a tipping point at which the business will reach its full potential.

But for that to happen, the leader can accelerate their own development. As we discussed in this episode, the brain employs subconscious processes, which have to be surfaced if an entrepreneur is to become the best version of themselves. Now, Joe's work is about linking the neuroscience of mindset development to really practical

strategies that enable entrepreneurs to work through defining stages of leveling themselves up. In this episode, Joe and I talk about the mindset barriers of entrepreneurs, how to understand your superpowers and your kryptonite and why that's really important, the top question to ask yourself when you experience fear, four powerful reflection questions to ask yourself each week at the end of the week, and at the end of the interview, we talk about how to label your emotions and why that's really important to process it. Now, whether you're an entrepreneur or not, I don't think it really matters because you'll see in this episode that the mindset practices that we talk about can be used in all areas in your life. And my favorite part of this interview, I really enjoyed talking to Joe about

the superpowers in kryptonite. I enjoyed talking to him about the subconscious processes that we talk about related to the amygdala. But my favorite part was the reflection questions that he asks us to think about at the end, towards the end of the interview. And here are a few of them that I thought were really powerful that I'm going to use at the end of my week this week. So he said to ask yourself, what do I need to let go of? What do I need to forgive myself for? And where have I succeeded this week? All right, make an outstanding week, my friends. Without further ado, let's bring on Joe. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset. I am stoked today to be joined by Joe Trotton

from the UK. So great to see you today, Jo. How are you doing? I'm awesome. Thanks, Cindra. Thanks very much for having me on. I'm looking forward to talking with you about mindset today, Jo. So just to give us a little bit of background so people can kind of understand where you're coming from. Tell us a little bit about your passion and what you're doing right now. Okay, so very briefly, I'd always had an interest in people's minds. You know, I did a bit of a career straight from university, like an IT job.

I don't know quite why, but I always had this sort of drawn towards people's minds. So I've been steering towards mindset ever since really from leaving the sort of the IT job and a psychology degree I went and worked with in mental health I went and worked with young people but then people with rather severe problems at times and I just kept getting pulled towards those who want to find that next level you know people who really want to go up. And I started my own business. I got involved in social enterprise.

But because I'm so interested in change, the big area to change is in business. I mean, it's business that drives everything. And then the more I worked in that, the more fascinated I was with this link between mindset and business. And that's really what was driving success. So all of this kind of strange, when you look back on it, it looks like it was a connected, intentional thing. But not really. You know, when you look back, you think it's intentional. But that's what drives my interest in mindset.

The power that it has for people to essentially change the world. Yes. And I like what you said about like it comes down to business. You know, so tell us a bit about why you chose to focus on entrepreneurs and with your company Mindset Experts. Because I'm interested in people who create impact and I think entrepreneurs are uniquely positioned to do that. So the space that I work in is the guys who are through their startup phase, although that could mean many things, but through their startup phase in terms of they've got a product or service out there, they've probably got an operational team, they've had a first round of investment, and now they're going, what am I supposed to do?

How am I supposed to do anything beyond this? Because it's all chaos to start with, but then you really need to understand who you are, how you're going to run this, how you're going to lead, how you're going to delegate, what your strategic plan looks like. So that space to me is really exciting because it's a time of huge change. And it's very, OK, many business points are critical, right? But it is a very critical business point to try and transition through. And so that's why that group really excites me in particular. Absolutely. And I know you believe that mindset is like one of the most important factors in your success, just being an entrepreneur.

And I agree with that, being an entrepreneur myself. And I'm sure you, you know, you see that, just how that plays out in your world and, you know, in your business. But tell us why you think it's so important. Because you've got to know yourself. It's like when we talk about the reason that I do strategy and mindset for entrepreneurs is because you can't have one without the other. So if we do the strategy, but we don't know the mindset, the chances of them being able to execute on that are really slim.

And likewise, if you do mindset without having a context, like a strategy, that's really hard as well. But if you look at the way that I talk about it, there are many ways that you can create a strategy in your business, but it has to be, it's not how can it be done, it's how can you do it? You know, when an entrepreneur is sitting there, it's like, how can I do that? So you get people that are not great at networking, for example. So you'll have to work out some other way to you know use a business channel to do that when people are communicating they need to think about how am i communicating how

can i be more effective in this team what are my natural preferences what are my blind spots like all of these things combine to your leadership your strategic approach to business even the development of your product depend depending on what that actually is. So all of that feeds in. This is why I think it's just so, so important to understand yourself. Yeah, awesome. So self-awareness is really, I think, the key of building a business as an entrepreneur. I'd agree with that.

So tell us a little bit about Joe. So one of the questions I always ask everybody on the podcast is about a time that they failed and what they learned from it. The reason I think it's important to ask it right away before we dive into some of these ideas you have is because I think sometimes it's like we got to make sure that we're real and we failed as well. We might be the CEO of a business and help other people, but there's times where it hasn't gone great for us as well so tell us about a time that you failed and what you learned from it uh today you know today's yesterday the day before um no it doesn't it happens a lot i think um so what my first business was a social enterprise that um was designed to help young people to get into employment. It was a shop, you know, to give them experience. And it just kind of petered out to

nothing, really. I mean, what I'd learned from that was, and it ran, and it got people, young people into jobs and stuff, like there were some good things in there. But ultimately, I wasn't thinking about that enough as a business at the time um I wasn't really thinking about pushing income streams I wasn't it wasn't um I guess it just wasn't being run in the right way you know people still won from it but it just wasn't what I hoped it would be and so I closed that and then went on to um work for this great company, Entrepreneurial Spark. I mean, I have to say it was like moving on from that. The next chapter was really exciting as well.

So it was something that I just let go. One of the things that was about that was almost at the time when it was time to let it go, what was hard was then people sort of going, oh, it's not worked out. That kind of thing at that point. And it just doesn't make you feel good when people are giving you that, oh, have you failed at that thing? I can assure you, I can imagine it's worse in the UK than it is in America. The failure here is really, it's almost like you get one shot, you know.

You've got one shot and you didn't make it, so that's your turnover. And now, you know, now you can go to the back of the queue and start again. I don't know what it's like over there, but failure's a big thing here. There's loads of them, you know, there's loads of things around. I burned a lot of money on marketing in my business when it was I really didn't need to do that then loads of things that I learned from that too around how I should have communicated better how I was really impatient in terms of my mindset and I was just like the more money I throw at this the faster we'll solve it you know that not that's not the right thing to do a final one just a very

quick one as well, about being in a meeting and going off track. You know, I was in a meeting with a client and it's quite a big deal and it's going off track. And then I try and force that as well. You know, I just try to go, oh, right, how can I give you value then? You know, this thing isn't working,

so how can I give you value? And reflecting on it, it was like, you should have just trusted the process. What was agreed up front let's go with the process and see what comes out the end of it because otherwise you end up in a bit of a mess but it's the reflection on all of these things that just helped me to it helps me to learn but i mean of course i still feel even you know i'm a mindset guy right and i work with it every day but there's still times where I walk out of a situation going,

oh, Joe, what did you just do there? You know? So it happens all the time. Well, and I think, Joe, like mindset is a practice. And kind of what I mean by that, it's not something we're really born with. And it's not like something we can do today but not tomorrow, right? Really practice, you know, this idea of the high-performance mindset. And I find the same way

as like i get my own way even though i know all these principles right so uh but what do you see like especially with entrepreneurs what do you see is kind of the common mindset roadblocks and then you know what are the ways that you would help somebody overcome them so this is um this is interesting in terms of what fascinates me is those the different types like you know that people people are different right everybody knows that but you just the more you work with them as a coach and you'll have experiences too no doubt you know just how different people are you know in terms of what they really can't see you know you're standing looking at a situation from the outside going, do you know that you're doing this?

You know, and they just don't. So a couple of things that in the early stages of entrepreneurship, if you've got listeners out there that are, you know, I've got an idea and I want to go through with it. Being able to handle like the rejection and the chaos at the start is hard because nobody cares what you're doing do you know I mean I don't mean that and I you know they don't though right you know when you come out there you think hey this is my world beating idea but I was talking to somebody else and saying you could have a cure for somebody's broken arm and you take it to them

and they go no I'm fine my broken arm's fine I'll you know I don't need anything like it's so hard to get attention and it's so hard to get your model right and you're so in love with it so in terms of a mindset in the early stages being able to detach yourself from your idea is hugely powerful and not being obsessed with your plan you know being adaptable is so important but moving moving through the stages of entrepreneurship the guys who are super adaptable at the start they actually get in their own way a lot when they get to the stage I deal with them because it's at that point that you do actually need more structure more of a strategy more of a plan and if you've got a team there you can't continue just going well we'll do that opportunity this is what we're doing today we'll take that

because then they don't know what's going on either so the types of things that I help them with that point are really understanding what their leadership style is okay people are super natural with not supernatural very natural it's a real supernatural very natural with uh with people you know and the it's about then how do you leverage that you know how do you leverage your relationships it's like when i work with who whenever they've got a problem the first way to think about that is how do i people my way out of that problem how do i bring somebody in or how do i make that a development opportunity for a staff member like that's just naturally how they do that so they can use that

strength as part of the way that they develop their culture and their organization and that isn't the same for everybody you know there yes you've got a team that's there but you could take somebody else who is incredibly uh driven and single-minded so you could look at i've got i've got entrepreneurs that they have a steve jobs type approach where they are like so driven and they will take people and not quite just burn them but do you know what i mean like they're so single-minded that it's got to be their way or the highway which is very different to that people person to orientated leader so then it's about okay do you want to change that because if you don't you're going to burn through all these people and maybe get a bit of a reputation but if you don't how do we structure your relationships so that that isn't a surprise

to the people you work with do you know so how do you set this up front how do you maintain your communication channels how do you make sure that if things are going off track you can pull it back in because that is part of their mindset and I'm not saying either one of them is right or wrong. It's about how do you leverage what you've got effectively. Right. And I think about how one of the things you help people do is better understand that like their superpowers and their kryptonite, right? So I'd love to hear what you think about,

what do you mean by superpowers and kryptonite? Maybe what you're talking about right now is kind of like a superpower. If you're really relationship driven and you have this leadership style that could be your superpower so um joe tell us a bit about those two ideas what do you mean by superpower and kryptonite cool so if you look at it you're spot on as well because it is one of the people um power is one of the superpowers that this one of my entrepreneurs has got in terms of they've just got this magic connection like when they go in the room and they can just like glide around it and people want to talk to them they are they're just magnetic like i don't have that right so i'm not

the world's greatest networker in fact in fact i'm definitely the bottom five percent i think because i'm like i'm quite functional functional you know i'm super what's the problem so when we meet a networking event i'm going well what's how do we help each other what's the problem not in a user way but just in that kind of what's the functional purpose of all of this um but this like that is a superpower it just it opens so many doors for that entrepreneur you know you can connect with anybody at any level. It's great with his team. But then you've got the kryptonite stuff of the structure and the organization for him. So that's really weak.

So then he can get amazing people engaged, but he doesn't put them into any, it's almost like, well, what do you want me to do? And his conversations can also drift a little bit because he's so interested in the person that there isn't enough function behind it. So you can talk for two hours and then go, so what? And then if it's a really great person, chances are they don't have another two hours for that conversation.

So it's about how do you actually put that into a structure. Sure. When you look at superpowers I'll give you another quick example as well of like new product development. Do you know I've just got somebody who is so awesome at this is what the the new product range is going to look like, this is how it's going to engage its customers, this is this absolutely left field idea about how we structure all of that together so creative just amazing at that stuff and when it comes to um superpowers actually changes the the chemistry in your brain it's when you go into

the flow state which i'm sure you'd be familiar with oh yeah of course yeah so when people are in the the flow state for anybody who's not familiar with it it's a brain state coined by a guy mikhail chick sent me hi it did take me a long time to practice saying his name. But what happens there is the brain chemistry changes and you get things like norepinephrine, which gives you energy, which is why you're in flow and you're using the superpower. You get this burst of energy. So if you're that amazing networker, you're only tired after the event

because you're so engaged when you're doing it. Or if you're that amazing networker you're only tired after the event because you're so engaged when you're doing it or if you're that new product development person you're so engaged when you're doing it so energized it's only after you're tired you get things like anandamine which is supposed to increase lateral connections inside your head so it's almost like taking the contents of your head and laying it on a table in front of you so you can make all of these different connections you know so our people person remembers all your kids birthdays and you should meet you and the npd can try all these uh pull all these ideas together so it's almost it's just like this biological advantage that you get and when you're in this flow state which is why it's so important to understand what they are and leverage them i know i'm talking i want to

make one quick point on superpowers as well okay people people often my entrepreneurs often feel guilty when they use them because they enjoy them so much you know that the new product development person is so important for their business and their investment case and my people person he gets that buzz and it's so important for the business but because it's something that they really enjoy and it gives them that energy and that flow and they actually sometimes feel guilty about using it because it feels so good and you're not working hard if you're doing something that feels really good you know so we have to be mindful of that but it's it's the only way you can get to world class because you've

got all these kind of brain chemistry advantages your physiology changes like that's where you become world class um yeah so it's ah that's good it's important to stick with them well joe this is what i'm thinking about is like okay how do i know what my superpowers are how do i know what my kryptonite is what would you suggest people who are listening consider about trying to figure out what their superpower kryptonite what that means for them yeah so like kryptonite obviously on the other side is just the stuff that drains your energy do you know these are the things as an entrepreneur that if you have to do them do them but your plan should have a time on them when you are not doing them because if you take some of

my guys like with their numbers for example it drains them like the finance side drains them so yeah you've got to do that but you need somebody in to do it because as your business grows as as that you know starts to take off you're somebody's gonna have to be much better that it can't be something that de-energizes them. So if they want to find their superpowers, the best place to start with that is just reflection. Reflect on what is it that actually energizes you. And you probably won't get it on the first go. So if you think about, if you're sitting there as a listener and you reflect back on what is it that energizes you i would pick a specific moment so not like um you know i like networking or i like design like think about a specific moment in time and then go what were you actually doing in that moment like that just takes you on to that next level because it's easy to go

i'm talking about networking as an example but if if you were to say, you know, it's networking, what was the networking event? And like, why? Why was that giving you so much energy? What were you actually doing in that moment? And you start to identify themes from that. So I'm thinking about like superpowers is really what gives you energy. Yeah. Kryptonite is what drains your energy.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. yeah kryptonite is what drains your energy yeah absolutely yeah and what do you think how is that connected with like growing your business and um and you know just understanding the roadblocks that might get in your in your way developing your business particularly from this mindset perspective so this thing about how you approach your um the strategy in your business you know and what are the people that you need in and how are you going to lead all of that stuff stems from the um these superpowers so that's that that intensity that some of those entrepreneurs have got understanding like i say that that's going to like burn through people at times and how do you make sure that you actually

use that effectively because that superpower if you continue to develop it like you're so so driven on that vision um how do you make sure that you're not burning people as you go if we look at my people person how do you how do you use that superpower effectively well what happens at the moment i can get these great connections we're all you know everybody's really happy but then things drift so why is that actually happening so this is this thing about if you understand what's energizing you understand what the superpower is what the themes are behind that when is it you use that that it's really effective and when is it you use it and it's not as effective as it could be and what's going on at the back of that i would say it's it's really important to i mean i'm going to say this because i'm a coach right but it's really important to get a coach you know it's really important i've

got a coach it's really important to get somebody from the outside that can help you to see some of those things because you can't see it you know it's like the thing of going put yourself in their shoes well you can't really do you know you can't think how somebody else thinks. This is why, and I've no doubt you've seen this before, when you point out something to somebody and they go, I didn't know I was doing that. Wow, you know, what an amazing insight. Even saying to them, have you noticed how good you are at this? And they go, isn't everybody just quite good at that?

You know? I never knew that about myself. You know, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, and Joe, I have my own coach as well and I think she really helps me play at another level of my business so I completely agree with that you know um Joe and I'm thinking about the barriers that you talked about you know the two barriers you said like rejection and chaos I think another barrier that can get in people's ways is like fear, right?

Especially when they're starting, like, what if this doesn't work out? What if it flops? What if I go bankrupt, right? Kind of these what ifs. So tell us about how do you see the role of fear playing into like just particularly the startups, but also like just the entrepreneurial journey in general? Yeah. entrepreneurial journey in general yeah um i think it's it's important to understand what you're afraid of um i also think we have a real problem i wish the word failure just didn't exist other than for some technical scenario because there's a real push on and again i don't know what it's like over there but this kind of push on some somehow

redefining failure but nobody if they say you failed that that that automatically just doesn't feel good do you know so we can call it like a first attempt in learning or you know I see these other things around that but that's still not how it feels as an emotion um I think that the the only reframe on that at the start is to be like if you look at what actually is failure is failure the fact that you try to do this and you go to the marketplace and you aren't exactly right about your idea is that failure or is the failure not trying you know is this a failure that you just don't take the move and the whole mindset thing about the start of that is that if you are prepped by the right people and you think about it at the start of that journey

to go I I know that I am wrong about some of this stuff and my journey is to find out am I you know I'm wrong about that customer wrong about what they want I'm wrong about the price point you know to give yourself more permission to be curious and to explore things. That mindset at the start, rather than the mindset of, here is my exact plan, and if this exact plan doesn't work, I'm a failure. Because I've worked with hundreds of entrepreneurs, and I have not once seen the day one plan be the thing that actually happens. That never, ever happens so yeah when we talk about the mindset and the fear angle entrepreneurs at the start of that journey should be prepped with what you're about to do isn't going to work first time so be prepared to be curious be prepared to look at different things um because the the fear for me around that is well you know again you'll know this stuff but

the like the biological nature of fear in your amygdala you know that your amygdala is a fear center inside your head and it was there for evolutionary reasons to if you saw a saber-toothed tiger you just reacted you know there wasn't a logic processing moment it was just that's a dangerous thing run away and your amygdala holds memories so the the more you associate something like you know a customer rejection like and as this negative thing then your amygdala stores that memory and goes no we don't like that and this one might reject you so don't do it and the fears that we face now are much more psychosocial obviously so it isn't fear of you, saber-toothed tigers.

It's fear of social rejection. I mean, when we talk about rejection, it's not just customers. It's people feel that they'll be rejected from a fear group. They'll lose from a peer group. They'll lose face. So that, again, but understanding that this is happening at a biological level and that if you push through that, you can rewire these memories that are in your amygdala. I think that can be really powerful. So tell us, Joe, in your opinion, like how to

actually do that. Because I agree that a lot of the failure is more of this emotional reaction. And, you know, we can easily associate, right, when I don't get a customer says no, I can have an emotional reaction to that and then continue to think that this isn't for me or this isn't going to be successful or I can't do this so tell us about how you think that we could rewire the brain so we're not feeling so much fear so the the first thing is that the memories that are in your amygdala um can only really be accessed when it's hot. You know, so this is why if you fear public speaking, you can't just go,

well, I'm just not going to be afraid of that anymore. And then go on a stage and you're not afraid anymore, right? It's understanding that that stuff is going to trigger. And so you have to just keep putting yourself in the firing line. And I know it's hard, but again, it it's just it's taking these things down to the small steps so if you fear public speaking just speak to like two people just go to them and like your friends and say you know I'm working on public speaking I'd just like to try and speak for two minutes on something and then your amygdala goes well actually that wasn't as bad as I thought

it was right I can do this. Yeah exactly and it's almost like it's not it's not quite a dialogue it's a bit it's a bit like the inner inner critic you know that voice of doubt that's inside your head that's kind of tied to your amygdala that in a sort of biological way your your inner critic that voice of doubt lives in your your dorsal your dorsolateral prefrontal cortex right the sign shows is in there which is to do with um being able to foresee the future so when you're about to do that thing your inner critic goes no no we could get rejected from this i don't like it i could see a future where this doesn't work fire up the amygdala guys let's get some fear

going here and stop this person doing this all of that kind of systems intertwined so you have to um take those smaller steps to start to rewire it and again the rejection on the on a phone call for example like the how many people do you expect to say yes you know do you expect logically do you expect every time you pick up the phone somebody's going to say yes of course you don't right so just make that one next call because every time you get the no then you've got a chance of a yes after it when you're going to put a video out just like just shoot a 30 second video it doesn't have to be like perfect it's getting over that first hurdle so when it comes to the fear and the trying to rewire it the the key point i would make is that

you can only do it when the amygdala is hot so you know if you plan plan on i just need to plan that call better i need a better crm system no you just need to make one call just do one call in a day and then try the next one the next day and then maybe go two calls and maybe go three do you know um sure yeah so when you mean like the amygdala is hot you mean like it's it's firing it's like something that you're actually fearing it um you can't get over the fear just by planning or just sitting there and not doing it you gotta jump in and be courageous even if it's a really small step 100 100 yeah yeah hot means sorry what i was i meant there was yeah you have to be in that

situation you can't just go you know the next next time the call is going to work so i'm fine about it because your amygdala doesn't see it that way it just goes well i told you that was going to happen and i do encourage the small steps because if you again public speaking is an easy one to talk about as an example but if you were to you know hire the big you fear public speaking you hire the biggest hall in the land and you cram it full of people you might be able to make one big leap but the chances are you won't you know it'll push you into like an anxiety zone and then if it doesn't work your amygdala will go well i told you so you know your amygdala your inner critic will high five each other inside your head and go i told you not to do that so let's strengthen that memory so you don't do it again yes i do encourage the small

steps the big leaps of faith can work but it's a if i was backing it you know if i'm a betting man i would go take those incremental ones and build up when i think about it kind of like this joe that it's like the start that stops people right right? It's like just getting out there and trying it one time. And it's like, and I'm thinking about other examples of people when they fear a lot, right? Like when I first wrote my first book, I thought, no, there's no way I'm gonna be able to write this.

Well, it just meant just start with the first chapter. And then that wasn't so bad. Okay, maybe I can do this. I like the example of public speaking um what are some other examples of you know clients maybe that you've worked with uh that have really overcome their fear like maybe give us some examples of examples of fear like what what have you seen people really struggle with i think the the fear of changing the business model for one of them um because you get like a sunk cost, you know, so sunk cost is just we've come this far with it.

And now the fear of like letting that go. But, you know, that one was one where we could just sit down and look at the evidence and go, this is where this is actually going. But there was a lot of fear. You know, that person had taken money to do the thing that they were going to do. So then it was, you know, how do I tell that person? Maybe I can still turn this around and make it work.

So there was a big fear of letting go of that. There's a lot of fear around communication, you know, communicating with people in the right way. When you're talking about co-founders and when you talk about conversations with investors, the level of honesty that they have to have there and the fear of what the fallout is going to be from that. I think that everybody still carries over.

There's still those fears of rejection in whatever way, you know, the fear of imperfection, even though, again, logically, it's just a false concept. You know, just what is that? It doesn't exist. It's like a happiness horizon. You know, once I get there, I'll be happy. You won't because it'll move again. Or once it gets there, I'll be happy. You won't because it'll move again. Or once it gets there, it'll be perfect.

It won't because you'll see another way to improve it. So letting go of those things, you know, those kind of, I would say that those are the types of fears that I deal with. Okay. Being able to put something out where it's not perfect and thinking like what's going to happen. Being able to have that really tough conversation and understand that there might be fallout, but it's something that needs to happen.

There's a lot of fear around those types of things. You know, I think a large part of what holds an entrepreneur back is just like these subconscious processes, right? And maybe they're not necessarily really aware of, but it's just like how we operate. So tell us a bit about um you know how you think you can tap into that just to help you be the kind of the best version of yourself well it's this thing about the i can't really say you can do that without uh like a coach i just don't say you can do it because you're being driven. It's like the iceberg model. The conscious is sitting on the top and the subconscious is sitting underneath. And it all becomes like

your thinking and your patterns become so ingrained that you can't unwind it yourself. It's like a coil that's wrapped around something and you can't see that that's something that you can actually unwind because it is so baked into your your your way of thinking and if you look at the stuff that's underneath that you know it depends how deep that the people want to go there's a lot of the problems that they have in terms of things like perfection in terms of keeping everybody happy not to go too heavy on the podcast but it does tend to stem from childhood you know there is something in there that um because it's hard for humans to accept that love is unconditional you know so that even if you even

if it's not been something particularly traumatic they still think well well humans all need love right so as we're coming through that process it's what do you think that's based on so some people think it's well I keep everybody happy and I'm really nice so that's why I get love so I'm going to carry that right the way through into my adult life which then means I avoid those difficult conversations it means that I keep on hold on to staff members for too long because I want to be loved and respected and I'm a nice person um the people who are perfect it could be that there's a lot of academic pressure on them when

they were younger and that's you know if I perform I get that love and attention that's for me that's the like there's a lot of stuff going on in the subconscious but for me that's one of the fundamental uh drivers and for people to ask themselves what is it that they think it takes for them to be loved now again this is what i mean about that's not an easy you can answer that at surface level or you can actually go you know underneath that i really appreciate it it's a big key driver for everybody. There's a lot of things I can think of right off the top of my head about, you know, my love with my husband or my love with my boys or, you know,

my parents and how they loved me. And I can see what you're saying that there's a lot of depth that goes to that. And maybe it's a variety of things from a variety of people. Yeah. Yeah. I mean mean it's just something that i think that the key one for me is the um that childhood you know i guess the the love of parents because that's your first experience of that right um you know what what is the what was the thing there that drove that and even where it is unconditional i don't know like again this is quite this is quite a big existential topic for the podcast right but I don't know um if when

you're that age that you can believe in unconditional love like there's like there's a you believe it's almost like when you're very young that exists and then as you start to grow then it's probably society driving that a little bit about what expectations are in terms of intelligence or attitudes or cultural pressures and all of those things. But then it gets to this conditional point. But it's almost like you can't understand that in your head. Say that's between maybe, say it's between sort of five and ten. It's quite hard to understand what that is in your head. And then it just creates this thing in your subconscious. This is how I'm supposed to be in order to be accepted and

then that starts to get pulled right through your life in various forms yeah you know Joe I know that you're working with some entrepreneurs on kind of taking their their leadership to the next level and one of the things that you're helping them do is think about like how can they be an authentic leader and sometimes I think what holds us back is maybe these expectations of other people. It doesn't, we kind of think, well, we'll be accepted if we're really ourselves. Right. And I find it really difficult. And in some situations, I find it even difficult for myself to be Cindra Kampoff, right? Where something I'm working on continue to kind of show up authentically. So tell us a bit about

how you might work with an entrepreneur to, you know, connect with their authenticity and why that's important. It's because the, you know, these sort of contextual identities. So when I work with entrepreneurs, you've got like, you've got a core, right? That is basically you at the core

and that is what is positive and good and you this is this is my belief system and some of the psychologists that I follow and then you've got these various identities around that so you've got like entrepreneur comes off that you've got partner comes off that parent friend you know all these different contexts that you operate in but this thing at the core part of that comes over into those different areas so it's not always about you're not like one person all the time it's not that you are um playing a role you know like your authentic self as a as an entrepreneur is still different to your authentic self as a parent and i get them to try and make some separations there where they need to there's a

really nice quote I like from Brendan Bouchard about um release tension and set intention because I had people that were guilty about um they didn't feel they were being a good enough mother do you know but I've got all this work to do like there's all this work to do as an entrepreneur so it's like you need need to draw some boundaries here. Like you need to put some lines in place to go before you walk in that door at night, release that tension and set your intention. And the intention is to be the best mother I can be.

I can let go of all the stuff that is, you know, from that entrepreneurial context, because that's not who I need to be in this moment so I think it's really I think it's really important to think about who you are in those different contexts and it is an authentic self it's not that you have to be one and all of them because I think that's I don't think that in my experience I think that it helps people to separate those things out a little bit. Yeah, I hadn't really thought about that. And I appreciate you saying that because my authentic self and what I need as an entrepreneur,

as a podcast interviewer, as a mother, as a wife might be very different. So I love what you said about release tension and set your intention. I thought that's powerful because I think about times where it is kind of we're just tense and on our drive home, you know, and then we don't really think about how do we want to show up and what does our best look like right now

and get that intention, get in that space. Yeah. And even, look, I mean, that's Brendan's line. I wish I could take that, you know, it was mine, but it was even in moments

like coming out of a meeting, you know it was right but yeah it was even in moments so like coming out of a meeting you know that say a meeting hasn't gone particularly well just remember reminding yourself to just try and okay just release that and what's the intention for the next thing that I'm going to do and but yeah moving between those environments I think is really is really key to do that type of thing and understanding excuse me and understanding that you can be yourself you know see when you have that confidence you actually know who you are it's even when I was talking about those those that that driven um type of entrepreneur that is going to burn through people

but you can still be authentic there um and you can still create good relationships you know I work with somebody who drove us so hard, so hard, but I thrive. I love that. There were elements of fear in that environment about underperformance, but it just drove people to really high levels. But that isn't for everybody. But if you set the expectation that this is what you're signing up for, and it the same in you know relationships you don't get someone to sign the contract right this is this this is what you're signed up for in this conversation but if you're going to have that kind of deeper relationship if you understand who you are and how you operate and all of your interactions then you can start to put those subtle cues in that enable you to be authentic this the whole um instagram i mean i think it's had its day do you know that

that kind of these these perfect entrepreneurs blah blah the yoga at four o'clock and then this type of smoothie and you know everything's sweet honey and light it's just not real life you know and i think most most people know that by now when you see behind it behind the magic curtain you know behind the wizard's curtain, it doesn't look like that. So it's okay. It's okay to be, you know, things don't always work out and we've got our own styles and, you know, I'm good at this and I'm not good at that. It's okay. And I agree that, you know, a coach can help you kind of uncover some of these understandings of what your authentic self looks like and who you are, right? But is there a

practice or is there a question or is there a strategy that you would encourage us to use to help us be more self-aware and to really understand who we are so that, you know, we can be the best version of ourselves? I think just reflection is so key, you know, being able to actually just stop and take one step back out of life and go, what is really going on here? I would encourage people to find their own reflection questions online. But there's things like, I quite like questions like, what do I need to let go of? You know I've got like uh Sundays when I do my reflections and asking questions like what I need to forgive myself for this week what do I need to let go uh what did I learn um you know where did I succeed things like that are good but like I

think that's one of my one of my favorite questions is that around um what I need to forgive myself for because I can be quite hard on myself which I think is's one of my favorite questions is that around what I need to forgive myself for, because I can be quite hard on myself, which I think is a superpower because it drives performance. But the reverse of that is, yeah, that any small thing can sometimes be a bit, you know, that was a missed opportunity. But just vocalizing that. And again, this is a bit of a subconscious to conscious transfer there's something um called labeling that it was a guy chris voss he's a negotiator a book on negotiation he was talking about when you feel an emotion if you don't label it it's really hard to process it okay if you just feel it it's like being on a washing

machine so then you can feel that angst and if you're not consciously like addressing it if you don't stop and go what is this what's this feeling at the moment and what's behind it so for me the reflections are a good time to do that to go what what feeling have i got here what is it that i need to let go of what i need to forgive myself for? What did I learn this week? And obviously you know the things about what is there to be grateful for? Where was I successful? But I think for the listeners to have that

if they're not using reflection already to make sure they set aside time to do that I'd recommend the end of the week. But I think it's really good just to go and look for your own because if you google reflection, you'll get hundreds of them. But there'll be ones when you go through that that will really just go, that's for me. You know, that's the one I need to ask myself.

Rather than it being, here's the universal one. Yeah, that's really good. I think the first one you said hit me in the heart was like, what do I need to let go of? And maybe that's kind of, you know, one thing that I got to reflect on. It's like, what am I holding on to that I got to let go of to keep on moving forward and dreaming a little bit bigger. So yeah, love that, Joe. Awesome. So tell us a bit about your coaching and for those people who are interested in learning more and following along with you. Okay, so like I said, I work with people that are in the marketplace already with the product or service.

A lot of the time it is a scalable product, but I'm interested in high ambition service people as well. It has to be something that they want to grow beyond themselves. So they are going to be looking to take rounds of investment, but they've certainly got big ambition. But the challenge that my guys face is that they come through that startup stage and now they just feel a bit like, I know there's another level, but I don't know what that looks like. So I know there's another level to me into this business and I feel it every day, but I just don't know what it looks like. And because I don't,

I end up going back on the hamster wheel and just, you know, chugging out what I'm doing. They're not desperately unhappy people. It's not a rescue job, but it's just that feeling. There is another level here and I don't know how to access it. So what we do over the first 12 weeks is really sort out what do you actually want? You know, who are you? What do you actually want? And then we dive deeper into the things like their superpowers. How do you actually want? You know, who are you? What do you actually want? And then we dive deeper into the things like their superpowers. How do you leverage that stuff? Your thinking, your communication style, your leadership, the foundations of who they are, and then their strategy.

So because those two things are so intertwined. And then after the 12 weeks, they'll leave. They'll have a much deeper insight into themselves. They will have an actionable strategic plan and then we make that decision as to are we right to work further with each other because i i'm almost like a certain part of people's brain you know like and if you're missing that part then engage me and at the end of the 12 weeks we'll work out are you missing you know the part of your brain that i am or do you need somebody else? Let's find that person. And it's just really important to be genuine about if I'm not the person, then cool.

Let's find the person that is. So that's how it works. That's awesome, Joe. Well, I'm grateful that you spent some time with us today on the high performance mindset. And I appreciate all the work that you're doing in the world to help entrepreneurs thrive. And I want to share with you just some things I got from the interview as a way to recap. And I think people will be appreciated,

just appreciate the kind of summary. So I love what you're talking about, like this kryptonite and superpower and your superpower is really like what gives you energy. And your kryptonite is what drains your energy. So really understanding you. And you said something really powerful about like you got to understand that to be world class. So I thought that was awesome. And then we were talking about fear.

And you said, you know, how do you define fear? And is fear like is it not trying? Right? Like, is it worse to, like, not try versus to get out there and really take these small steps is really the key to address that fear. And I also like when we were talking about fear, and you said, like, have more of a curious mindset, just like an explorer mindset, when you're getting ready to launch an idea or a business, you're knowing that it's not going to go perfectly and that it's going to fail. And then release tension and set your intention, Brendan Burchard.

But love that because you explained it and even if people haven't heard it before, it's like, that's awesome to help you think about the different areas in your life and being authentic and how your authenticity is in different, in these different spaces or different roles. And then lastly, your questions that are really powerful to help you reflect on your week and how it's really important to understand yourself. So questions like, what do I need to let go of? What do I need to forgive myself for?

Where did I succeed this week? And just kind of labeling that emotion, understanding it so that you can really be your best. Yeah, good stuff, Joe. Awesome. So tell us where on the web we can find you and if you're on social media at any places. Sure.

So I am at www.mindsetexperts.co.uk. I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. Again, if we're talking superpowers, I don't communicate well in sort of 288 characters. So I'm not a big Twitter guy. I'm not really on Facebook. That's actually a good example of thinking what channels work well for you. So yeah, I'm quite active on LinkedIn and you can find us on the website as well. And if anybody does have any questions about mindset or they just want to ask something about what's going on in their business, if what I said resonates with them,

I can assure you I'm not a hard sale merchant, right? I mean, you won't be either. You know that when you're here to actually help people, you help the people that you can help. So it's not a sales thing. It's about whether I'm the right person to help. So I'd love to speak to any of your listeners. Sounds great. So you can head over to mindsetexperts.co.uk to find more about Joe. And the show notes today and the summary is going to be at cindracampoff.com slash Joe.

So thank you so much for joining us today. Appreciate your time and energy and your wisdom, Joe. Thank you so much. Really enjoyed talking with you, Sandra. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening to high performance mindset. If you like today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend and join the conversation on Twitter at mentally underscore strong for more inspiration and to receive Sandra's free weekly videos, check out dr.cindra.com.