High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 345: The Champion’s Mind with Dr. Jim Afremow, Mental Skills Coach and Author

Episode Date: June 12, 2020

Dr. Jim Afremow is a much sought-after mental skills coach, licensed professional counselor, and the author of The Champion’s Mind: How Great Athletes Think, Train and Thrive (Rodale, 2014), The Champion’s Comeback: How Great Athletes Recover, Reflect, and Reignite (Rodale, 2016) , and The Young Champion’s Mind: How to Think, Train, and Thrive Like an Elite Athlete (Rodale, 2018).  He is the founder of Good to Gold Medal, PLLC, a leading coaching and consulting practice. Dr. Afremow provides individual and team mental training services across the globe to athletes, teams, and coaches in all sports, as well as to parents, business professionals, and all others engaged in highly demanding endeavors. He is passionate about helping others achieve peak performance and personal excellence, and reach their true potential. For over 20 years, Dr. Afremow has assisted numerous high school, collegiate, recreational, and professional athletes. Major sports represented include MLB, NBA, WNBA,  PGA Tour, LPGA Tour, NHL,  NFL, and the UFC. He served as the staff mental coach for two international Olympic teams, was the senior staff member with Counseling Services and Sports Medicine at Arizona State University, and as a Mental Skills Coach and the Peak Performance Coordinator with the San Francisco Giants MLB organization.   In this podcast, Cindra and Jim talk: The 12 essential mental skills needed to thrive How attitude is a decision but also a learned behavior that requires discipline and energy to sustain The 4 C’s you need to develop Why we need to think gold and never settle for silver How to love your comeback more than your setback   HIGH PERFORMANCE MINDSET SHOWNOTES FOR THIS EPISODE: www.cindrakamphoff.com/jim   HOW TO ENTER THE PODCAST GIVEAWAY TO WIN $500 CASH: www.drcindra.com/giveaway   FB COMMUNITY FOR LIVE PODCAST INTERVIEWS: https://www.facebook.com/drcindrakamphoff/   FOLLOW CINDRA ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/cindrakamphoff/   FOLLOW CINDRA ON TWITTER: https://twitter.com/mentally_strong   Love the show? Rate and review the show for Cindra to mention you on the next episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/high-performance-mindset-learn-from-world-class-leaders/id1034819901  

Hey, my name is Cindra Campoff and I'm a small-town Minnesota gal, Minnesota nice as we like to say it, who followed her big dreams. I spent the last four years working as a mental coach for the Minnesota Vikings, working one-on-one with the players. I wrote a best-selling book about the mindset of the world's best and I'm a keynote speaker and national leader in the field of sport and performance psychology. And I am obsessed with showing you exactly how to develop the mindset of the world's best so you can accomplish all your goals and dreams. So I'm over here following my big dreams and I'm here to inspire you and practically show you how to do the same. And you know, when I'm not working, you'll find me playing Ms. Pac-Man.

Yes, the 1980s game Ms. Pac-Man. So take your notepad out, buckle up, and let's go. This is the high performance mindset. The mind is the athlete. I mean, the body really is just the vehicle and garbage in, garbage out, you know, or gold in, gold out. Welcome to episode 345 with Dr. Jim Aframow. This is your host, Cyndra Kampoff, and I'm grateful that you are here. If you know that mindset is essential to your success, then you are in the right place because we talk about everything related to mindset here on the podcast. And I'm pumped to let you know about a podcast giveaway

we are organizing here at the High Performance Mindset. And this month we're organizing it. It is truly unbelievable. So you can head over to drcindra.com slash giveaway. And I'm giving away $500 in cash, a free coaching session with me personally, two subscriptions to the Beyond Grit Academy, and 50 people will receive a best-selling hardcover Beyond Grit book. There's so many ways to win,

and it's really easy to enter. So again, you can head over to drcindra.com So D-R-C-I-N-D-R-A dot com slash giveaway. And I hope you win the $500 in cash. Today's episode, I've interviewed Dr. Jim Aframow, somebody I've wanted to have on the podcast for a long time, been working to get him on the podcast for at least a year now. And Jim Aframow is a sought-after mental skills coach, a licensed professional counselor, and the author of The Champion's Mind, How Great Athletes Think, Train, and Thrive. And this book I actually require in my graduate level sports psychology class. They read this book. I love Jim's work because it's research-based, but really easy to understand and apply

to your life. Jim has also written The Champion's Comeback and The Young Champion's Mind. All three of them I own. He is the founder of Good to Gold Metal Consulting, a leading coaching and consulting practice, where he provides individual and team mental training services across the globe to athletes, teams, and coaches in all sports, as well as to parents, business professionals, and all others engaged in highly demanding endeavors.

So today in the episode, we're talking a lot about sport, but just know as you're listening that you can apply it to any way that you perform, and we perform in all the different various roles in our lives. He is passionate about helping others achieve peak performance and personal excellence and to reach their true potential. So for over 20 years now Dr. Aframow has assisted numerous high school collegiate, recreational, and professional athletes. He has served as the staff mental coach for two international Olympic teams, was the senior staff member with Counseling Services and Sports Medicine at Arizona

State University, and also served as the mental skills coach and peak performance coordinator for the San Francisco Giants MLB organization. So in this podcast, Jim and I talk about the 12 essential mental skills needed to thrive, how attitude is a decision but also a learned behavior that requires discipline and energy to sustain. We talk about the four C's you need to develop, why we need to think gold and never settle for silver, how to love your comeback more than your setback, and why mental skills are not magical skills.

And if you enjoyed today's episode, wherever you're listening, we would love for you to head over, subscribe if you haven't already, and give us a five-star rating and review. that just helps us reach more and more people each week and your reviews are helping for a long time now i've been working to get in the top 100 podcasts and this week we reached 56 so i'm so pumped so thank you so much for your ratings and reviews it just helps us grow the podcast and helps us reach more and more people each week. So thank you so much. Today's featured review is from Dancing Dad Steve.

I like the name. I can't believe these interviews are free. I listened to these podcasts since 2016 and I find something in them that challenges me and helps me grow as a dad, husband, and a pastor. Each week I get one hour of continuing education for learning how to be the best version of myself. I love how Dr. Sindra also summarizes her notes from the interviews at the end. I'll keep doing that. Dancing Steve. With all the changes of COVID-19 and that brought to my home and work, Dr. Sindra helped me pivot and make the needed adjustments.

Thank you so much for your great work. Thank you, Dancing Dad Steve. I'm grateful for your review, and I'd love to read your review next week. And be sure to share this episode with a friend. You can copy and paste the link wherever you're listening or take a screenshot and share it with a friend via social media, email, or text.

And I'd be forever grateful. You can also share this on your Instagram stories and tag me at cindracampoff. Without further ado, let's bring on Jim Aframow. Excellent, Jim. I'm so excited to have you join us today on the High Performance Mindset Podcast. We have been talking about this, I think, for about six months now. I'm so grateful that you're here on the podcast. So thank you so much for joining us. Thanks, Indra. What an honor and a privilege to be part of all the good things you're doing and to be with you today. I'm looking forward

to our conversation. And for those people who are watching us live, I have all three of Jim's books right here. So the champion's mind, the champions come back and then the young champions mind. And you'll like this Jim in one of the classes I teach, I require the first one and look at my tabs. So, so tell us a little bit about your passion and what you do right now Jim yeah I mean I grew up on sports I've always been fascinated by human behavior so sports psychology I'm also a licensed professional counselor in the state of Arizona and so it's really a bridge between my two passions in terms of sports and psychology. And so I am so fortunate. It's kind of like, you know, when when people say they don't feel like they work for a living. And I feel like I get to do this. I love to do this. I look forward to doing this. And, you know, I'm kind of a sports psychology junkie too. So I love your podcast and the people that you've had on it are just, you know, what an all-star lineup. So it's great to be with you. Hopefully those, you know, in the book, you know, there weren't a lot of red marks in terms of what could have been better, but just kidding. I have no red marks. What I really like about your books is

they're really practical, but they're also really research-based. And that's what I really enjoy about them. And I think as a person with, you know, a PhD, and I see myself as a scholar as well, you know, it's nice to, that it's just not something that you're just putting out there, but you're really backing it by research and some studies. So no red marks, mostly things that I like. Thank you. Yeah. So maybe if you could just give us a little bit of background on how you got to where you are now, right? You have three excellent books. I

really like the young athletes mind as well for, for people that aren't adults quite yet. So give us a sense of how did you get to where you are now? Yeah, it's an interesting question. So for me, you know, I studied psychology at University of Oregon. And at that point, it was more I was interested in cognitive or experimental psychology and, you know, working memory and so on. And I started coming across some articles on visualization and then visualization with athletes. And I'm thinking, man, I wish I knew some articles on visualization and then visualization with athletes. And I'm thinking, man, I wish I knew some of this when I was, you know, playing sports growing up. And I grew up more in the time when, you know, it was either you had confidence or you didn't.

You know, you either were focused or you're not. And so what really, you know, growing up, I understood that the mental game was important in sports and life, but there didn't seem to be much out there on it. And so kind of indirectly through cognitive or experimental psychology, I started learning about sports psychology. And immediately, the more I, you know, the more I'd learn about, the more I wanted to learn about it. And so I went to graduate school at Michigan State. What a great program, great people there. Cold winters.

It was tough. The coldest I've ever been is we had a regional conference, sports psychology conference at University of Western Ontario. And, yeah, I mean, that was a blast. But, yeah, Michigan State was a blast. And then as I was studying there, I'm like, Okay, I also want to learn more about, you know, off field issues and how to help those as well. So then I did a dual degree and in counseling psychology, a master's degree in counseling psychology. So I have my doctorate, my master's, what a great experience there. Nick Saban was a football coach at the time. Wow. my master's. What a great experience there. Nick Saban was the football coach at the time. Wow. Yeah. And one of my buddies that I met there, Mickey Collins, he co-developed Impact while he was at Michigan State. And so I was fortunate enough to, you know, accompany him

when he started testing the Michigan State players with, you know, the very early stages of Impact. And so that was exciting. And then also Tom Izzo with basketball and Spartans won a national championship and kind of being part of that, knowing a lot of the players through the classes I taught. So that was really cool. My wife, my future wife, who I met there, she was in the counseling psychology program and, you know, working on her doctorate. And she got an internship at Counseling and Consultation at Arizona State University. So we came out here together. And it's such a great story because I approached sports medicine at ASU. And I said, you know,

at Michigan State, I led injury support groups. I work with the players. Do you have a sports psychologist right now? And they said, actually, we don't, we might need one. And so they said, keep checking back with us. And about a month later, I get a call from the head team physician. And he said, actually, we need your help. And I said, well, what's going on? And he said, no pressure, but we got a baseball player with the yips. And so I'm like, okay, you know, you know, thanks for making it easy on me. But I really was here for one of your first experiences. That was my first experience at ASU. And and I think the baseball team was top five in the country at the time. And fortunately, the player was fantastic.

Coach Murphy at the time was amazing. And we did really good work together. And, you know, he was able to get out of his way and play like he knew he could play. And so then it's like, hey, could you come on halftime? And then, hey, why not full time? And so I was there for 10 years at ASU and loved every minute of it. Did some private practice on the side. And yeah, and then worked for the San Francisco Giants, worked with a couple Olympic teams, and then now athletes all over the world.

So again, it's, you know, pretty happy and very grateful and very humbled by this. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think there's a lot of like young people that listen to the podcast and I'd love to hear your perspective because I bet, you know, frequently you might get the question, well, how'd you get to where you are? And wow, you know, worked with a pro team, worked with a great college program. And, you know, now three of these great books and you're in private practice, when you look back at your career, just from where you are now in your lens, is there something that you think really moved the needle? Like, is there one thing that you did that made a big difference? Yeah, I mean, you have to use everything that we teach from the textbooks. And I've used it all. I

mean, I really do practice what I preach. And the self-talk, the, you know, visualization for my first book, The Champion's Mind, I actually visualized holding the book before I even started writing it. And so, you know, sometimes I forget, like, hey, this stuff really works. And so, get world class at what we do for yourself. And that will help you obviously get to where you want to be and help others get to where they want to be. But there is no real blueprint for what we do, as you know. And so you have to learn to hustle.

You have to learn to do different things. I've worked at a medical center. I've worked at an employee assistance program. I've been part of employee assistance program. You know, I've been part of a group psychology practice. So in retrospect, all those things were great learning experiences. So hang in there, you know, you'll get you'll get to you'll get to the finish line eventually. But but and the road, you know, you got to enjoy the journey, as we always talk about, and I certainly have. So yeah, yeah, we're lucky to

be able to use what we teach. So I like what you said about just the idea of being world class and what we do. And you couldn't have gotten to where you are now, right? Continue to build what you're doing, you know, in the future, but you couldn't have done that without being world class. So before we dive in, Jim, to your books, and some of the ideas that you talk a lot about and you teach, can you give us a sense of how you define failure and an example of a time you failed? And I love to ask the guests this question because there's a wide variety of definitions of failure, so it's pretty cool, but also to make you human. Have you heard all about these great things you've done? Let's get to know Jim. So, and I really truly believe this, that I look at failure as just not showing up. And, you know, Woody Allen said 70 or 80% of success is just showing up.

And so what I really like is if you show up, let's say I want to run a marathon or for me showing up was, you know what? I don't know how to write a book. I'm going to write one anyway. And so showing up and then using the tools that we just, some of the tools we'll get into, but more about the visualization, self-talk, goal setting, that's how we step up. So first show

up, then step up. But so to me, if you show up, hey, I'm going to run a marathon, never run one before, you know, I train, you know, let's train smart and be really well prepared. But then I beat everyone else that hasn't shown up that day. And so as long as you get your butt there, you know, show some courage, get your butt there. To me, you're a champion. And, you know, the question is, are you going to be the champion that day? And so again, that's where I think a lot of the mental game comes into play, but from a traditional standpoint, you know, I happy to admit, you know, in terms of a definition of

failure, a traditional definition of failure, I fail every day with every client. Because I could always do better. And so, you know, so I that's when I always go back to, okay, did I did I win there? Or did I learn there? And I think there was a famous psychologist, name escapes me right now, but I think said one time, might've been Karen Horney, who said, we either help our clients or we learn from them. And so I really look at, you know, in the work that we do, I look at failure pretty much as just, because I always do my best, obviously, and I know we all do. But failure for me in that context would be just not really being able to connect with the person, you know, and I look at, you know, I need to be able to

find a way to develop rapport and, and get to understand them as well as I can. So I know if we could do that, we're going to go far. Yeah. Excellent. I like show up, then step up. That's really sticky, but also when did you win there? Or did you learn there? And when you think about how you see the world's best deal with failure and approach failure, what do you think? Like how what do you witness in terms of their ability to move on and

get better because of it? Oh, I mean, champions have failed the most and it's because they keep showing up and they put themselves in position to fail. And it's not easy. You know, we get our heart broken when we do fall short, but champions look at it as I can't wait to be in a position again to fall short again, because that means, you know, I'm right there. I'm that close and I have an opportunity. So I could give you a quick anecdote of, so one of the softball players I worked with, she was on a team that ended up winning the national championship. And anyway, during the season, she was facing one of the best pitchers in the country, you know, on the opposing team and softball for people that don't know as much about

softball, 70% of the game is pitching. I mean, those pitchers are just, wow. And so anyway, she goes into the game and she ends up getting the game winning hit. And afterward we're talking about it. And I said, well, I saw in the, you know just looking at the game in terms of the box score that you struck out the first three times, you know, what was your mindset? And she said, well, a lot of, I was trying to use a lot of stuff that we talked about. And I said, well, okay, tell me more about that. And she said, well, first time I struck out, I said, you know,

I got back in the dugout and I'm thinking, oh man, I'm going to get her next time. She got me this time. I'm going to get her next time. Strikes out again. The second time goes back in the dugout and I'm thinking, oh man, I'm going to get her next time. She got me this time. I'm going to get her next time. Strikes out again. The second time goes back in the dugout. I'm going to get her next time. I'm going to get her next time. Goes back to third time, strikes out. I'm going to get her next time. Her attitude didn't change and then gets the game winning hit or fourth at bat. And that to me is what this stuff is all about because it's not normal to think that way you know it's I think it's normal to start thinking today's not my day this other pitcher's just too good I'm so embarrassed I can't believe this is happening so you know I just called it hey you were psychotically optimistic that day and I love it and and what that does for an athlete or for any of us,

it makes you really dangerous. And so as the game goes on, you get more and more dangerous. If you could think like we all teach in sports psychology. And so that happened to me with my first book, it's like rejection, rejection, rejection. And it's like more, man, this is making me even more dangerous right now because you know, when I get there, the book's going to even be better. the draft's going to be even better. And I'm going to want it even more. So I think that optimism, that confidence that, you know, the more failure I

face, the more motivated I'm going to be and the more dangerous I'm going to get. I love the terms that you use just there to explain it. And now like, watch me, you know, like, this idea of I can turn this into an opportunity. I can stay psych. What did you call it? Well, I call it being psychotically optimistic. Psychotically optimistic. I think that's great. And I, yeah, I'd love to actually learn more a little bit about how you did publish the first one with Rodel, right? Because I wanted to learn more about that in terms of where you rejected, what was that process like? And then, you know, when you look at now, the outcome of the book that was published, is it a lot different than the first draft?

Yeah, well, interesting question, because so where all this started is when I was at ASU and what an amazing experience because one session I might meet with a Olympic diver from Italy and then you know on the diving team at ASU and then the next session I might meet with a football player from Los Angeles and then the next session a water polo player from Australia. And so it was neat, just the international flavor. But a lot of times we would talk during session and, you know, can I have a piece of paper to write that down? Or do you have an index card? I want to write that quote down. And so eventually I started putting together a bunch of handouts and I kind of became known as the handout guy or the confidence card guy. Cause I'd hand out little confidence cards.

And, yeah, it was funny when I would run into an athletic trainer or a coach, they would say, are you the guy that gives all those handouts? And do you have any more? And, you know, and usually and I had to get better and better at them because usually they would just end up at the bottom of the locker and then people would throw them away. But so I tried to make them sticky. I tried to make them fun. I tried to, you know, put a lot of little tips and quotes and stories on there. And eventually it was like, hey, why don't I turn this into a book? And again, that's where the, you know, okay, time to get outside of my comfort zone. I don't know anything about writing a book. So let's find out. So I did my research and I found, okay, you need to get a literary agent. You need to do this. You need to do that. And so off I went and a lot of the feedback at first was, well, you know, you need to do this differently, or you need to do that differently. And, you know, or I'm not, you know, it was kind of some of it was positive.

Some of it was negative. Some of it I never heard back. And so there is that, you know, you kind of have to embrace the gray there that, you know, you're not always going to get black and white answers in terms of what you need to know. But I stuck with it, found a great agent in New York City. And then we were off and running. And then Rodale just picked it up and said, we love this project. So let's go. And, uh, so many Olympic athletes were,

uh, were, uh, so gracious to, to provide an endorsement like Carly Lloyd, number one soccer player in the world. And then Jim Craig, goalie from the 1980 U S Olympic team. And it's a great story about the work that we do because I contacted him and it was pretty funny because he went to Boston university. My wife went to Boston college. And so we were talking, he had a really strong Boston accent. And he said, I said, man, you, you have a strong accent, like my wife. And he said, where's, you know, where'd your wife go to school? And I said, Boston College. And he's like, Oh, those wicked, you know, Boston

College Eagles. And you know, it's just so funny. But he said, you know what, anything else I can do for the book? And I said, you know, what do you mean? He goes, I love this stuff. He goes, that's why, you know, there's nothing more important than mindset. And so I said, well, if you love it that much, will you write the forward for the book? And he goes, sure. So it was pretty cool. It was pretty cool. Wow. So. Wow. And I love how it just came organically like that. And again, such good writing. I think it's really easy to understand and digest. When you take a step back, and then we'll dive into the first book, The Champion's Mind, give us a sense of, as you've worked with some of the world's best, what do you think separates them from a mindset perspective? What do they do differently than maybe the average? Yeah, I mean, that's been just amazing experience for me, just being able to peer, you know, look under the hood, so to speak, and you know, what makes them tick and what makes them so great.

And a lot of the ones I've worked with really do have an attitude of domination. And so they're competitive. And, you know, I, my definition of competitiveness is wanting to win until you drop. And, you know, they, I mean, if you're playing Fortnite, if you're playing Roblox, if you're playing ping pong, you know, it doesn't matter. They want to keep playing until they win. And so competitiveness is they want to beat your butt. They want to, you know, game on, and they're never going to give an inch. So competitiveness, there's a lot of C words. So confidence is another big one.

You know, they respect the competition, but they respect their stuff more. And, you know, they love their talent, they love their preparation, they love their game. And so confidence is a big one. Jack Nicholas recently tweeted, it's kind of funny to say Jack Nicholas recently tweeted, because it's funny, he's even on Twitter. But he said that confidence is the single most important factor in golf, and probably in life. And so confidence is huge and so i look at that as um you know really having a lot of faith in your abilities and then also having a really positive self-image and so the world-class athletes i've worked with it's like this is my show and i'm

running it you know i mean they they really believe in themselves another big one as you know is concentration. They could get hyper-focused, and if they get distracted, they're able to refocus quickly. And that's a big sign of mental toughness right there is that, you know, the faster you can refocus, the better you're going to be. And so they don't make it a history lesson out there on the field. It's always next play.

You know, it's what's important now. It's always next play. You know, it's, it's what's important now, what's important next for those guys. And then one, one more to throw out is in terms of another C word that I've noticed with a lot of these world-class athletes is their commitment level is off the charts. And so just to give you an example, one year, NHL player reached out to me and said, you know, I'm recovering from an ACL injury. And, you know, I'm only going to be out here three months, I want to work with sports psychologists, I want to put my best foot forward, you know, I want to work on my mental game. And so I said, Okay, when do you want to meet? He said, Well, I just told you, I'm only out here for three months. So I want to meet every day. And I'm thinking, wow, I never heard that from any of the ASU student athletes. And I'm thinking that's why

he's in the NHL. You know, and that's because if you know, and his attitude was, hey, if this helps me, why not do it every day? And now did we need to do it every day? No, but it was his attitude of I'm willing. I mean, nothing's more important than this. So I'm willing to do if you think it's good to meet every day, let's meet every day. And that just blew my mind. Because, you know, I'm thinking he's gonna say, well, let's meet, you know, maybe every, you know, every other week or whatever. No, he wanted to meet every day. And so so I love that commitment. It's almost like I think with the world's best athletes, it's not about motivating them. It's almost about like, Hey, you need to slow down a little bit

here. You know, like you need to pace yourself a little bit here. And so I get a kick out of working with some of those athletes because it's so outside the norm. So I'm hearing four C's. I got this right. So they're competitive, they're confident, they have a concentration that's really focused on what matters most to them and or what's most relevant. And then they're committed at just like a different level. I saw your recent blog post about the last dance and my family and I watched it as well. And I thought it was so fascinating to watch Michael Jordan and just kind of get the inside, you know, inside his perspective, this mindset perspective of, wow, just what it took to be as good as he

was. So give us a little insight on your blog and just your perspective on that. Yeah. So Champions Mind app is a new project that I'm working on. And part of that is we have a blog and we call it, you know, goat and and we call it goat food. And it's and so but the acronym goat, as most of us know, was, you know, derived from Muhammad Ali said I'm the greatest of all time. But for the app, we also use it a little differently in that it's go at, so go at your goals, whatever they are. And so, yeah, so we do have a blog post, we're interviewing some pretty cool people and, and talking about some topical issues, you know, obviously, you know, we'll get into a little bit about what's going on in the world right now with the pandemic.

And so we have some articles on that as well. But that's just a lot of fun just to kind of share some thoughts and reflections. And one of them was recently, as you mentioned, on The Last Dance. And boy, I mean, Michael Jordan, he talked about an attitude of domination. And, you know, he's coming at you

with everything in the kitchen sink, and you better be ready for it. And what I really liked one of the things he said is that, hey, I never asked, so it's good leadership, I never ever asked anything of anyone else that I wasn't willing to do myself. And so I think any coach, any team would be lucky to have someone like Michael Jordan where your best player is also your hardest worker absolutely one of the things that fascinated me was this his ability to find motivation in in anything in motivation in his loss or sometimes he'd make up like negative comments that uh competitors never even actually said to like motivate himself.

And then in the last episode, episode 10, they were talking about how just his ability to stay present was unmatched. And, you know, why would he ever think about a shot that he would, that he would have missed, right? Like why, why would he even fathom to think about failure? And I thought that was really eye-opening and just kind of consistent with also what the sports psychology literature describes about the world's best. Yeah, I mean, he's like, he craved being in those

circumstances and, you know, just like a Larry Bird or a Magic Johnson. And it's kind of like, you know, the bigger attitude of, I could handle whatever happens. So, you know, let's deliver the dagger, so to speak. And if I don't deliver it tonight, I'm going to do it next time. And again, that gets to the optimism of eventually I'm going to hit that game winning shot. But you're right in the moment, it's the consequences, you know, it's just, they don't really exist. Because I see that as an opportunity, you know, when I'm open, and I have that shot, it's an opportunity,

I don't think twice, because I'm going to take every opportunity I get. Yeah. So they love those situations. And we all I think we all need to take the page out of that book too, and just fall in love with any opportunity that comes our way and just go out there and seize it. Nicely said. So in your book, The Champion's Mind, there's a few things I want to connect with you about. The first thing is one of the quotes that I underlined, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. You said, attitude is a decision, and it is also a learned behavior requiring discipline and energy to sustain. So I like that because people might stop at attitude as a decision, right? But it's also a learned behavior. So describe to us, you know, your thoughts on this. And it's such a powerful statement.

Yeah, I mean, and I've had to work on that one too, in terms of attitude, because as we all know, or most of us know, the brain is hardwired, you know, in terms of a negativity bias. And, you know, the brain operates under a safety first principle. And so that's why we play small. That's why we hold back. That's why, you know, we beat ourselves up a little bit too much when things don't go our way. And, you know, I love what our colleague, Dr. Bob Rotella mentions a lot that anyone could have a great attitude when things are going well. Can you have a great attitude when things aren't yet

going well? And so, you know, negativity bias in that quote by Bob Rotella. And I think Ken Reviza, you know, talked about attitude as a decision. So I probably lifted from him too, and using that quote, but it's just that we have to work on our attitude. It, you know, a winning champion, you know, awesome attitude doesn't come as naturally as, you know, I think would be nice. And so, you know, hey, if I'm not starting on my team right now, well, I better have even a better attitude than if I was starting because it's going to be harder to keep a good attitude. So I'm going to be the best teammate possible. I'm going to be the hardest worker when I'm watching the game from the sideline. I'm going to learn as much as I can and visualize myself

out there on the court with my teammates. I'm going to pump them up. I'm going to give them what they need. I'm going to be, you know, all in on being the best teammate I can be. And let's be honest, that's not natural to think that way. Yeah. So, but it's important to think that way. And it helps the team. It'll help yourself. Everyone wins by thinking that way. So one of the things that I would say to the major league baseball players I'd work with, because think about it, playing 162 games in 180 days.

I mean, it's unbelievable the grind. I mean, that is a true grind. And with all the travel, and so it's easy to get negative. And a lot of guys would say, hey, you help keep me positive in a negative sport. But one of the things I would challenge them is, do you have anything to lose by going all out in a positive way this season, this whole season? And loving every pitch as much as you possibly can.

Do you have anything to lose by doing that? And, you know, the answer is no. So let me help you to get there. Yeah. Awesome. I love the idea of like loving every pitch. And when you're loving it, I'm thinking you're also thinking about why are you passionate about this sport? Why do you even want to be there? Right. And you're taking it more like one pitch at a time instead of I got to get this done and maybe not be fully present. Yeah, I mean, I had a story just came to my mind of a player that I worked with that I said, what do you love most about baseball? And he kind of got sad and, you know, tearful.

And I started thinking, well, I wasn't expecting that from that question. And but he related to me that when he was a kid growing up, he would pray every night that it wouldn't rain the next day, because he wanted to play baseball that bad. And I said, that's beautiful. That's awesome. You know, why are you kind of tearing up about that? And he said, now I pray every night, hoping it does rain, because I'm just too stressed out. I'm just too stressed out. I'm thinking too much about mechanics. I'm worried about stats. The competition is so stiff. And I don't know if I could do this. And so I said, you know, you know, we, a lot of empathy, a lot of listening. And I also, you know, acknowledge and validated, you know, kind of that some of those feelings are awesome because you want to be in a better place. You're not happy with not being at your best. And so anyway, we rolled up our sleeves, did a lot of good work.

And one day he texted me and said, I can't wait to play tomorrow. And I like I mean, that, that was music to my ears. So I love that because yeah, if you're not in love with what you're doing, you know, you got to go find something else that you're in love with or get back to loving what you're doing because the game's too hard. As you know, every game is too hard. The competition's too hard. It's going to beat you up anyway. So you might as well become your own best friend.

And that starts with loving yourself and loving your game. Nicely said. And I think about people who are listening who are in sport, but also maybe coaches or business leaders, right? And sometimes I find people who aren't loving what they do in life. And then it's a really tough conversation about, do you want to start loving it again? Or do you want to find something different? So I appreciate that perspective and what a great story. So, Jim, in your book, in Chapter 2, you describe the essential mental skills. So I want to connect with you about those. I'm going to read those for people who are listening.

We got goal setting, mental imagery, self-talk, confidence, focus, breath control, mental toughness, anxiety management, enjoyment, body language, intensity, and personal affirmation works. So give us a little sense on those essential mental skills that we really need to thrive and why you chose those specific skills. Yeah, I mean, those are all, you know, I call them power tools. And we all dabble a little bit with these, and we've all heard of these. But you really want to sharpen them, you know, kind of like a samurai sword and get as good as you possibly can at these. So, you know, doing a little visualization is okay, but probably not enough, you know, doing a little bit of breathing work or, you know, meditation is okay, but it's not going to probably help you if you do it once or twice. And so what I wanted to do there was just

lay out, Hey, here are the mental skills. Here are some tips and strategies really get world-class at these. And the better you get at these, I mean, man, you could go in there with supreme confidence when you compete, because a lot of athletes still aren't working on these as much as they could. And it doesn't take a lot of time. It really doesn't. And a lot of times you could do these, work on these mental skills and strategies, as you know, in parallel with what you're already doing. So if you're on, you know, waiting for practice to start, you know, or you're waiting in line at practice, visualize a couple times being successful at what you're about to try. You know, obviously, at night, we know stress is, you know, pretty rampant in the

world. And so practice your relaxation skills and strategies. And you'll find that when you're on the, you know, course or court or whatever field, it's much easier to kind of get that relaxation response going when you need it and to maintain your composure. So, yeah, I'm a big believer, though, in self-talk is number one. I mean, to me, it all starts and ends with self-talk because it's that voice and it's the voice in our head that either helps us win or, you know, or or gets in our own way. And and then at night, we end up staring at the ceiling, because we know we beat ourselves. Yeah, and we know that we could have talked to ourselves differently. But I also appreciated what you said about the negativity bias, and it's natural, normal for us to

talk to ourselves in that way that it's, you know, we're beating ourselves up. So what recommendations would you give for people who want to talk more powerfully to themselves? And I think, especially now during this time of transition and change where sports shifting and adjusting, maybe they're not getting that time with their teammates or just the people like you and I who are having to adjust our businesses. Yeah, I mean, in terms of self-talk, I think what's important for all of us to mention in the sports psychology space is that if you start having negative thoughts, you're not failing. Because again, the brain, that's the default of the brain. It's just a reminder, hey, I'm not going to go there. I'm starting to have some

negative thoughts. I'm not going down that way. I'm going to stop right here, turn it around and go that way and start tracking the positive. And so I think a lot of times when we read a sports psychology book, or, you know, we listen to a podcast, or we even meet with a professional, we think, okay, from now on, I'm going to be really positive, I'm going to be my own best ally. And then the next day, we're like, I don't want to go to practice. And then it's like, then we feel like we failed, because we're having those negative thoughts again. And you haven't failed. It's just an opportunity, another opportunity to work on what we've talked about. And so self talk is key, because, again, the mind is the athlete.

I mean, the body really is just the vehicle. And so garbage in, garbage out, you know, or gold in, gold out might be a better way of saying it. And so you have to talk to yourself like a champion to become one. And so, again, an easy way to do this is to think, what would I tell, you know, a best friend or a great teammate when they were struggling or scuffling? And, you know, I would tell them, hey, you had a bad game. You're still a good player. Or you had an off day. Every champion has an off day. Tomorrow, look out because I wouldn't want to face you tomorrow. Cause I know that you're not going to settle, you know, for what just happened today. And then, okay, let's apply that to

ourselves. And, you know, as you know, most of us do have that double standard. Like I've never, you know, I never beat up a friend if they had a bad day, I would encourage them, but we tend to do that with ourselves. So you've got to treat yourself like your own best friend. I appreciated several things you just said there. like the mind is the athlete, so powerful, because right, it's just the body is the vehicle. I thought that was a great idea and concept and just gold in gold out. Whenever you're putting gold in here, that's what you're going to get out in terms of your performance. And what I would add to that is the graveyard of sports is filled with naturally talented or gifted athletes physically that you never heard of again. And then we all know stories of athletes.

It's like, man, how did he or she ever win that gold medal? Or man, how did, you know, they ever make it and get a college scholarship to, you know, whatever school. And because it's mind power over firepower, it really is. Awesome. Okay, so we talked a little bit about the champion's mind. Give us a little insight on the champion's comeback and why you decided to write that and the difference between the champion's mind.

I know because I read them, but we'd love to hear your perspective on what was next after the champion's mind. Yeah, that's so sometimes the second, you know, winning the second title or, you know, repeating again, coming out with a new album. It's not easy because, you know, you have to make a comeback. You to think okay what can I do now and but I love that challenge and so but the champion's mind was all about the attitude of think gold and never settle for silver and that's what we were kind of getting back to what we're

talking about earlier that real failure to me the big f of failure is just holding back, not, you know, playing scared, not, not getting after it in life. And so thinking gold is just pushing yourself and outside of your comfort zone. And to me, the more you do that emotionally and physically, the more you have a gold medal life. And so the champions comeback is more about, Hey, you're going to hit walls. You know, the big, you know, the bigger dreams are, the bigger goals, the more, the more walls and hurdles you're going to hit along the way. And so it's really about you know, in terms of the champion's comeback,

kind of the attitude or the philosophy of the book is I won't be denied. And getting back to what we talked about love. I mean, there's nothing more powerful in the world than love. It's more powerful than fear or anger. And so, you know, one of the mantras kind of between the lines in the book is love your comeback more than you hate your setback. And yeah, because we tend to get stuck on the setback and because we do that we are the ones that actually set us back not what happened to us and so it's really about falling in love with the comeback and what's a better story than a comeback story you know and that's why i think everyone liked the movie rocky because you know the guy against all odds he kind of puts himself

in position falls short and then comes back and wins And we all have the power to do that in our own life. Awesome. When you think about the champion's comeback, can you think of a powerful strategy or tool in that book that maybe people have been talking a lot about or you feel like is really sticky or would help us learn more about this idea of like, love your comeback more than you hate your setback. Yeah. I mean, to me, I I'm a big fan of optimism and I almost look at it as, you know, be a little bit pessimistic in training or practice, you know, like just to make sure you're staying on your toes. Like, am I doing everything I should be doing? Am I as prepared as I could be? But when it's time to compete, you want to be the most optimistic person on the planet. And just to give you an example, Dusty Baker, great, great Major League Baseball player and manager. And I was able to speak with him one day and I said, what is, I asked him, what is your favorite quote? And he said, Oh,

my favorite quote is by Luke Appling, who was a hall of fame player way back in the day. And I said, Oh really? What did he say? And he said, if you want to play lucky, you got to think lucky. And I look at that as, you know, being optimistic, like something good is about to happen. You know, there's something positive on the horizon. And I said, you know, Dusty, how do you use that as a manager? And he said, all game long, I'm trying to think of something good about to happen. So if we're down by two, hey, we still got seven innings left. Or, you know, if they just hit the ball really hard,

hey, you know, if we make a good play, we could throw them out. So he says that the whole game when he's managing, and a lot of it is, I'm sure, just in his own head, and I'm sure he also verbalizes a little bit, is always like something good is about to happen, something good is about to happen until the game is over. And then, you know, it goes back to either won or learned or you won or you ran out of time.

But I really love that because, again, is there anything to lose by doing that, you know, thinking that way? So, and even if they're up by five runs, he's thinking, hey, I wonder if we could get another run here. And so it's just being as optimistic as you can during competition. And I really think that's powerful. And then after he mentioned that, I came across a quote by Earl Weaver, who was an amazing manager for the Baltimore Orioles back in the day.

And he said, it's really interesting, and I don't know if him and Dusty ever talked, but he said, I became an optimist as a manager when I realized I wasn't going to win any games any other way. And so I think that's true for coaches, managers, business professionals, you know, and especially athletes that, you know, when it's time to compete, be as optimistic, be as positive, be as, you know, just be as happy as you can be. And there's nothing that you know, no one's gonna ever look back after a game and think, I wish I was more pessimistic, you know, or I wish I had a worse attitude, you know, there's nothing to lose. So that was a powerful story from from Dusty. And, Jim, I'm thinking about right now about this change during COVID-19, right? And how

a lot of our world has changed and our lives have changed. And I think the power of optimism is really important, right? Like maybe you can't ignore what's happening in the world, but give us a sense of how you're coping with this time and what strategies have you used to deal with adversity and change? Yeah, I mean, it's been interesting for all of us because, you know, everyone was on go mode and then everyone, you know, it felt like overnight we're all on slow mode. And so what I've tried to do and try to recommend is to use this time. It's a golden opportunity for self-reflection. And, you know, am I doing what I want to do? Am I, you know, am I living my life in accord with my values? And what have I been doing that I want to keep doing? You know, maybe what have I been

doing that I want to stop doing? So it's a great time for self reflection. And it's also a great time to reconnect with the things that are most important to us, you know, in terms of self care and family. And so I think one of the things is to have a both and attitude about the situation rather than an either or because I think if we take really good care of ourselves, it's easy to get into Well, who am I to take such good care of myself right now or be happy when so many people are suffering and I think you could do both I think you could have empathy for others I think you could help others and I think you can be really concerned about what's going on but I also think that and I also think that you could crush it you know you could you could use

this opportunity as there's no better time and place, A, to work on the mental game, especially if you're an athlete. Absolutely. And it's an opportunity to work on some things that you maybe didn't get a chance to work using that now during this situation is this is either going to be time stolen or time given. And it's up to you. And, you know, if you're out for a year with an ACL injury or an Achilles injury, you don't want to look back and say, man, that was time stolen. You want to look back and say that was time given because I did A, B, C, D, all the way to Z in terms of self-care, learning about the mental game, working on my nutrition, watching the game from a different angle, learning more. And so there's still time to make this a blessing in disguise for all of us

so that when we do get back to go mode, we're ready to go, really ready to go. Yeah. I like the idea of like taking this time to be ready for the go mode. Cause I think that's how I felt like I was go, go, go. And it's, I there's a lot of things I've really enjoyed about this time. So this idea of both, and it doesn't have to be either or. So Jim, I could talk to you for lots of hours. So we'll have to have you on before, right when you're launching your next book, but you got three amazing books right here. The Champion's Mind, The Champion's Comeback, and The Young Champion's Mind. Tell us how people can get the book and the app. So give us a little insight on that. Sure. So the app came about, it's called the,

you know, Champions Mind app. It's available, you know, wherever apps are sold, the books are available wherever books are sold. But I would have athletes that would say, hey, I wish I could bring you in my gym bag and take you with me to my, you know, next competition. And so what I started realizing, well, I can't shrink myself. And but I can maybe get on their phone somehow through an app. And I also think it's important, as you know, as we both know, that mental skills aren't, you know, magical skills and mindsets, not just a button to be pushed, when you really need it, you have to work on this daily. And so that was the goal there with the app. In terms of Twitter, at gold medal mind, and then my website is, well, is at is my website is gold medal mind.net. But yeah, love to connect with anyone. Thank you for this opportunity.

You're a champion at what you do. So it's been my honor today. Well, Jim, I am honored that you're on the podcast. I'm excited that we got you on here. And I love following you on Twitter. So I'm going to repeat that at gold metal mind, right? I think that you post really great information that's really useful for people. So if you're on Twitter, make sure you follow Jim there. And Jim, I usually like summarize what we talked about today. So I'm going to do my best. And we'll see. But I loved the different topics that we talked about today. When I asked you about what the world's best do, you said that they show up and then they step up, right? And we talked about, I'm not just thinking, did we win there, but also did we learn there? We talked about the power of optimism and just this belief that, you know, always something great is going to happen.

You talked about four C's, being competitive, confident, making sure you're concentration or you're concentrated and then or you're concentrating on the task at hand. That's probably a better way to say it. And then committed at a different level. And then we talked about how the mind is the athlete and really putting gold in is what you get gold out and how negative thoughts isn't a failure. So thank you so much, Jim. I'm grateful that you're on the podcast today. Thank you. And everyone that listened today, have a good one. Way to go for finishing another episode of the high performance mindset. I'm giving you a virtual fist pump. Holy cow.

Did that go by way too fast for anyone else? If you want more, remember to subscribe and you can head over to Dr. Sindra for show notes and to join my exclusive community for high performers where you get access to videos about mindset each week. So again, you can head over to Dr. Sindra. That's D-R-C-I-N-D-R-A dot com. See you next week.