High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 414: What Drives Winning with Brett Ledbetter, Consultant, Author & Speaker

Episode Date: March 13, 2021

Brett Ledbetter is a Consultant, Author, Speaker and Co-founder of the What Drives Winning Conference. He is the author of 4 books: What Drives Winning, What’s Really Important, What Drives Winning Teams, and What Drives Winning Environments. He has given three TedX Talks on topics such as Building Your Inner Coach and How to Stop Comparing and Start Competition. Athletic Departments hire him as a monthly on-site thinking partner for athletic directors, coaches and athletes. He co-founded and facilitates the What Drives Winning Conference with Hall-of-Fame coach, Becky Burleigh. His work focuses on character development, behavior management, priority alignment and self-awareness. Brett works with and applies his high-performance training within education, military, sport and business sectors. In this episode, Brett and Cindra discuss What drives winning environments and cultures How the championship coaches focus more on the process than the results Why it is important to see a person over a player Ways to fear of failure holds us back How the best define failure in their environments HIGH PERFORMANCE MINDSET SHOWNOTES FOR THIS EPISODE: www.cindrakamphoff.com/414 HOW TO ENTER THE PODCAST GIVEAWAY TO WIN $500 CASH: www.drcindra.com/giveaway FB COMMUNITY FOR THE HPM PODCAST: https://www.facebook.com/groups/highperformancemindsetcommunity FOLLOW CINDRA ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/cindrakamphoff/ FOLLOW CINDRA ON TWITTER: https://twitter.com/mentally_strong TO FIND MORE ABOUT BRETT: http://www.whatdriveswinning.com Love the show? Rate and review the show for Cindra to mention you on the next episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/high-performance-mindset-learn-from-world-class-leaders/id1034819901    

Hey, my name is Cindra Campoff and I'm a small-town Minnesota gal, Minnesota nice as we like to say it, who followed her big dreams. I spent the last four years working as a mental coach for the Minnesota Vikings, working one-on-one with the players. I wrote a best-selling book about the mindset of the world's best and I'm a keynote speaker and national leader in the field of sport and performance psychology. And I am obsessed with showing you exactly how to develop the mindset of the world's best so you can accomplish all your goals and dreams. So I'm over here following my big dreams and I'm here to inspire you and practically show you how to do the same. And you know, when I'm not working, you'll find me playing Miss Pac-Man. Yes, the 1980s game Miss Pac-Man. So take your notepad out, buckle up, and

let's go. This is the high performance mindset. Vince Lombardi said, winning means you're willing to go longer, work harder, and give more than anyone else. Mia Hamm said, a winner is a person that gets up one more time than she gets knocked down. And Brett Ledbetter, who I interviewed today for the podcast said, people fear failure when they attach their self-worth to achievement. When this happens, what they do becomes who they are. Welcome to episode 414. This is your host, Dr. Cinder Kampoff, and I'm grateful that you are here. If you know that mindset is essential to your success, then you are in the right place.

And today, I am excited to feature an episode and a conversation with Brett Ledbetter on the podcast. I read his book and his workbook, What Drives Winning, several years ago. And I have to tell you, I get vulnerable in this episode. I'm still processing it, to be honest. Brett turned the tables on me and asked me a lot of questions that I wasn't expecting, but really grateful that he did. And I've been thinking a lot about my values. He provides an exercise for you to also think about your values. And he had me go through it in the episode. And I've been thinking and

processing it quite a lot in the last several weeks since I interviewed him and trying to process what I really want my values to be. Do I want them to be in the order that Brett and I discuss? You know, his service mindset and calm presence was also incredible. I think the most impactful thing that he said for me was that his mission is greater than himself. And since the episode, I've been thinking quite a bit about that idea and keeping my mission greater than myself as well. So I think you're going to really like this episode.

And for those of you who don't know, my name is Sindra Kampoff. I'm a keynote speaker and an executive and performance coach where I work with entrepreneurs, salespeople, business leaders, and athletes. And I work with them one-on-one. Let me know if I can help in any way. You can send me an email at sindra at sindracampoff.com. And we can set up a discovery call if you want to level up in 2021. Now today's episode, I interview Brett Ledbetter, who is a consultant, author, speaker, and co-founder of the What Drives Winning Conference. He's also the author of four books, What Drives Winning, What's Really Important, What Drives

Winning Teams, and What Drives Winning, What's Really Important, What Drives Winning Teams, and What Drives Winning Environments. He's given three TED Talks on the topics such as building your inner coach and how to stop comparing and start competing. He also co-founded and facilitates the What Drives Winning Conference with Eve Burley. And I've watched episodes of this conference. They're incredible. The conferences feature high-performance coaches and experts and incredible conversations about what's really important. And he works with and applies his high performance training with education, military, sports, and the business sectors. what drives winning environments and cultures, how championship coaches focus more on the process than the results, why it's important to see a person over a player or employee,

ways that fear of failure holds us back, and how the best define failure in their environments, which is one of my favorite parts of the episode. You can find the full show notes and description over at syndracampoff.com slash 414. We also have a high performance mindset community over at Facebook, where we are starting to post these episodes live. And you can see them there. You can ask us any questions when we are alive in these episodes. To join, you can head over to Facebook and search

High Performance Mindset Community or scroll down on the notes wherever you're listening to this episode and you can find the link. And I'll also be over there in the Facebook community regularly posting videos and tools to help you keep leveling up your mindset. And make sure you share this with a friend today who needs to hear this, maybe a coach or a leader. You can copy and paste the link and text it to a couple of friends or post it on social media and tag myself and Brett. And without further ado, let's bring on Brett Ledbetter. Brett, I am so excited that you are here joining us on the podcast today. I've wanted to have you on for a while and just I'm really looking forward to the conversation about what drives winning. So thanks for joining us today. It's great to be here. Thank

you for having me. Let's get started and just share with us a little bit about your passion and what you're doing right now. So I started in the grassroots space. And so quite frankly, podcasts are a little bit unnatural for me. And the reason we started doing them is because as I transitioned from the grassroots space into college and professional ranks, working with those athletes, it became very apparent that there were people that were extremely influential to them in that grassroots space. And so for me, the more we can develop resources for that group to move the needle with shaping the trajectory of those athletes' lives, that's what we're committed to. Perfect. So I want to ask you a question to start off. And so much of your work is what drives winning and what drives winning

like the environments and the support that people need to win what got you started examining this idea of what drives winning well as I mentioned so in the I was in the grassroots space and we were meeting with athletes once a week for 24 straight weeks. And it became very apparent to me that what they did when they were not with us was more important than what they did with us. So we tried to shape an environment that would foster intrinsic motivation. So when they went home, they would have the drive to work on some of the things that they were working on. And I think that it was once you realize that if you have a really good plan, it's not working for everyone. So why is that? And we started to unpack that. And what we realized is really from the original TED talk,

that your character is going to drive that process, which then drives the result. And so we sort of modified our philosophy. A lot of it was based on one of your previous guests on your podcast, Jim Lehrer, that we really wanted to repurpose the sport experience to build character because we felt like that would drive the process. And what's happened is as we've taken this into college in different sectors, we've really realized that character drives everything. And it doesn't matter what space you're in.

And so we try and focus on that. So, you know, I think about the resources that you provided to really help people understand what drives winning and the conferences you put on the coaching labs and the books you have uh what would you say has been the most surprising result you found so far just kind of talking about these ideas to experts to coaches to like high level leaders in terms of uh anything that stands out to you, I'm just going to let you run with it. So, yeah, I think that for me, what's always interesting is when you start talking about something that moves you, then you start talking to other people and you start to see themes emerge. And so for us, speaking with the original What Drives Winning, that idea that your

character drives the process, that was a theme that emerged. And then with the newest book, What Drives Winning Environments, the question we started with is how do you build an environment where people can do their best work? And what we learned through those conversations was really how a leader defines, manages, and models their expectations really shapes the environment that people are working in. And so defining was a proactive approach. Managing was reactive. And then modeling was all the time. And so I think to get to your question, it's just like you find these different themes that coaches struggle with or leaders struggle with. And then you start to investigate those more.

And then solutions start to present themselves. So let's dive into that idea first. And you have a new book available, What Drives Winning Environments, and you just said defining, managing, and modeling. Give us a sense of how those three things impact winning environments. So if you look at define, it's a proactive approach, and there's a football coach, PJ Fleck, who coaches Minnesota. And one of the things he did when he took over is he had what he calls how university, where anything that is expected is defined. And he uses visuals to help them understand what it looks like. And then once you define, that draws a line of acceptable and unacceptable behavior.

And so acceptable behavior is any behavior that meets or exceeds the standards of your program. And great leaders want to catch above the line behavior because that is the behavior that wins and that we want repeated. And it's a way to educate everyone in the environment and then the art becomes when you have someone not meeting the standard how do you convert below the line behavior in a way that wins influence as opposed to force control okay

and how would you suggest that given you know what high level leaders have told you in the research that you've done? How do you, you know, influence over control? So often people use power tools, because the coach, typically from college down has a lot of power. And so they can force kids into meeting the standard. The challenge is it's not a sustainable approach. And having conversations with Daniel Coyle, who wrote the talent code and the culture code. Yeah. He a 400% better result than have to. And so as we're trying to convert behavior, it's trying to unlock a sense of ownership. So if a player, an example that comes to mind, a player's in a slump, a coach asked me to help this player and they couldn't reach him for whatever reason. And so the first thing I asked the player to do was if he had a teammate that was in the exact same situation as him,

write down the advice that he would give that person. And the reason we had him write it down is because then he could commit to those words and he'd have the space to truly articulate what's going on. And when he presented that back to me, it was about, Hey, you don't just add value when you score. This team needs you to lead in all situations and you need to shut out the outside noise. Extra reps isn't going to fix that. And so if we assumed that it was something over here, we would never get to the true source. We would just be addressing the symptom. And there's a great coaching line that Jack Clark uses who coaches rugby at Cal, why guess when you can know? And what we found is that to truly win influence, it's more about asking the right questions as opposed to having the answers.

Got it. And when I think about, you know, the last part you said, defining, managing, and modeling, I'm thinking about what I've seen great coaches and leaders do. They realize that they're a consistent model, right? And, you know, I'm thinking about mindset because that's what we're talking about. Like they model the importance of mindset. They know that their energy is contagious on the field, right? So if they get frustrated at a call, their teammates are going to get frustrated at a call. What do you see?

You know, tell us a little bit about the modeling piece and how you see that play out among the best leaders. Well, I just think about like Giannis Adenokoumbo, who is a two-time NBA MVP. And I think if you ask NBA players, is he the most skilled player in the NBA? They would say no. And so how is it that he's a two-time NBA MVP? And I think what it gets down to is how they handle the action between the action. Yeah. So the micro behaviors, a bad call, a turnover, those sorts of things. And I think if you ask NBA players, what is Giannis's greatness attributed to, they would all point to that. And so it's the same for a coach. One of the great lines comes from Jay Wright, who's the Villanova men's basketball coach. He said that the most important thing a coach can do is to get your best players, the most committed to your core values. So when

you have a Yannis who's mastering the action between the action, what happens is the Milwaukee Bucks, the franchise, they mirror his development because everybody else is picking up the cues that he's sending. And I think at the college level, it's exactly, do you remember the old school clip where Will Ferrell is yelling, we have to keep our composure as he's in the chair. Yeah. Sometimes I use it as like what not to do. Exactly. What he's doing is in direct conflict of what he's saying in the moment. And I think that speaks to modeling. You want to eliminate the signals so you can have consistency inside the environment. Yeah, that's great. I really like the action between the action. And I remember reading that in your book,

What Drives Winning. I think there's so many ways that we can apply that to sport or our life in general. There's no question. So Brett, you said at the beginning about how character drives winning. Tell us a bit more about that and maybe other factors that you see drive winning. Well, so if the seasoned vets I've been around, they look at the word winning as a loaded word.

And so I think that what we try to do with all of our books, they're all questions and statements. So it's a search that's unique to the individual. And so I think the key for a lot of coaches, it's so easy to lose yourself on the chase towards excellence. And so if you can get a game plan of what is your mission on earth? What are the roles that you play and the supporting actions that you would want to reflect those roles and then try and take those and apply that to your chase. And I think that you become a little bit stronger internally and there's a healthy and a sustainable way to win. And I think that the best I've been around, that's what they're constantly searching for. The healthy and sustainable way. And I think that has a lot to do with our reaction to not winning. You know, when I think about winning, I think about, did you lose the game? Or did you win the game? But what are the other ways, you know, that you would say that the best

to find winning kind of give us a sense of what that means in your perspective. So have you ever heard the term focus on the process, not the result? Yes. Yeah, we say that a lot. That's kind of what I'm thinking. So I know a lot of people say that, right? If they have an outcome, the way they respond to that outcome is clearly not in line with, hey, we're focusing on the process. And so to me, it's like, how do we create the healthy, sustainable way is to live your values out in action. And again, it's so hard when everybody else is focusing on what society would deem successful. It's easy to get lost in that. And so to truly reflect what's important to me, keep those things intact. That is a rare form of a leadership I think about PJ Fleck which is

somebody that I know you've interviewed and you just mentioned when he came to Minnesota people expected him you know I live in Minnesota so I have this different perspective like people expected him to win right right away and then you know the next year everyone was all on board and then last year they lost a few right unexpected games and it's it's really interesting maybe media's reaction to that or just you know fans um and i do see that the best do sustain this they don't they don't take that in right they don't um uh they're really careful about the messages that they're listening to. So like what I would challenge you to think about is if you got on an interview or you posted, what kind of the population do you think would not be favorable towards you? Well, right now, they just don't tell me. But I think as you get higher up,

there's a lot more people that are not favorable. And especially the more visible your work is, right? So like, if let's say you had an eight out of 10 approval rating, which would be remarkable, right? Right, right. Think about your visibility of your work. And then think about the President of the United States. And if he had the same ratio, which to get an 80-20 as a president is like, you're probably not, that's not happening. But to think about certain regimes, they're not even welcome in certain states of the place that they reside over. And so to me, I just think about how strong your core has to be. And yeah, to pull it together with your question. Yeah. If we think about when we're unhappy, okay, typically, it's because we're unhappy, typically it's because we're focused on what we don't have as opposed to what

we do have and appreciating what we do have. And the more you achieve some of the trends that we've seen is that everyone around starts to focus on what you haven't done as opposed to what you have. And so if you pair those two things together, you have to understand that the higher the level you go, the more you're going to have to develop your internal journey because what's happening outside your body, if that dictates your internal experience,

when you inherit a situation like PJj did that can not only disrupt you and blow you up but it can blow everyone around you up i'm thinking brett just about the self-awareness and personal development that takes to really be able to know what your values are live those values and then stay the course on those values despite what other people might say or the critics right the the people from the stands I think about pro athletes really have to segment that you know I've had several people that I work with just not you know close their Twitter account or not decide not to read any newspapers because they can can get in your head but that takes it takes a lot of personal work What have you seen the best leaders do in terms of like personal

development? How did, how do you, how do you see to get there to this, um, this, um, kind of space you're talking about? So what you just said, there's like three different things that, that came. So the first thing is, and I see this with so many athletes, they work their whole lives developing their following. And then when it gets to a peak, what happens is, is maybe they don't do something that reaches the expectation of their followers. And then they see all this negativity. So they've worked this and then they don't want it anymore and i think that is there's a lot of wisdom in that that sometimes we overvalue things because we haven't experienced

them and so sometimes when they're they have to experience pain to want to break through and uh trying to get them to understand that prior it's because it's a shot of heroin. I mean, when you achieve and everyone comes at you, it's literally and you don't even know what's happening. Someone's drugging you when you're asleep. And so when you want to begin to wake up, you realize that there's this detox phase that you have to go through. And those withdrawals are extremely painful for some, especially when you've been leveraging that following that attention, that approval for energy to help you do a better job. And yeah, for sure. It sounds to me like that's a lot of the work that you're doing with athletes is to try and become self-sufficient to

where they don't need that outside energy to help move them towards where they're going. Absolutely. And it makes me think about a concept from your book when you were saying like the best coaches see athletes as a person over a player. And sometimes we can get so caught up in, you know, that we are our performance or we are what we do. So maybe talk a little bit about that and how can I challenge you? Have you said that before? Because I'd have to think that you went through that and then that gives you a direct empathy line to relate to the people you're working with.

What about your experience? How would you describe it? Well, I would say there's two kind of big moments in my life where that I really struggled with that. When I was a college athlete, I struggled because I didn't perform very well sometimes. And then I thought I was the failure instead of just that failure was what I did. And then the second point second point was actually, when I started working with my first professional sport team, and there was a player on that team that failed. And I had a really hard time with it, because I thought it was me, right um and I think that I was kind of over um identifying with my professional role right and and also like people can make mistakes right and I could I I empathized with like coaches

who maybe you know their players make a big mistake and it took me, I don't know, months to kind of work through that. And what was the internal dialogue like for you as you're navigating? Well, I mean, very harsh, you know, like, what did I do wrong? How come I can't figure this out? What should have I done differently? I think as a, as a, as a, as a college athlete, it was what's wrong with me. Why can't I figure this out? And, you know, I got kind of stuck on just one failure that I ended up generalizing to be, you know, like that I failed in college when it was just actually one race. So Brett, that fuels me a lot to do the work that I do now, because I wish I would have known that like, I'm not the failure that it was just something that I do now, because I wish I would have known that like,

I'm not the failure that it was just something that I did not who I am. And so my question is, is you think through that is, how was it like to live with you during that internal sabotage? That's a great way to say it. Um, let's see, as you know, the second example is a professional, my husband probably would say like, you are absent, you are quiet, man, you were, I mean, I remember like one night crying myself to sleep. So let me ask you this is when you're when you're crying. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. He's next to you, obviously at this moment. Is that right? Yeah. But I think he was sleeping. So let's, let's just say that maybe he's not, or maybe he is, but like to hear your spouse and to feel the restlessness that they have,

imagine what the partner's perspective would be on that. Right. That's powerful. And I think sometimes when we are in the self-sabotage, right, we all can do it, that it feels like we're, why me or that we're all alone. And we have a hard time, I think, taking a perspective of another person that we love. So I think that was a really powerful thing to ask me. Well, and I just think through, so what you're illustrating is, and thank goodness it was only a couple months for you. Yeah. When you see coaches and they have years like this, imagine what it's like from the spouse's perspective, from the kid's perspective, to watch someone they love go through that. Yeah. And the drain it takes on families, the drain I'm thinking about that it takes on personally, you know, and, and I'm thinking the lack of self-care, right. And

I've seen a lot of coaches that way where they're just grinding, grinding, grinding, and, you know, they, they do become sort of like unbalanced. It's, it reminds me of a line that that coach was reflecting on his life. And he said, unfortunately, when I look back, there's a trail of tears shed by others. Yeah. So when you think of the top leaders and coaches that you've seen be able to, you know, deal with all the demands that it takes to lead at the high levels? How do you see them do that? Well, I think it's to approach it from a perspective of really understanding what's important to you. So I'm going to challenge you. So you personally as a professional, so think about your profession, how would society view your success? What would be the top three to that's, you know, from the outside, they'd say, you know, that's, that's what, um, or I speak a lot. Right. So that's probably what outwardly seems like

success. So book clients, events you've spoken at maybe your fee, your speaking fee, your material possessions, all these things. Right. right yeah now i'm going to do an exercise with it can you do this okay yeah of course you have a paper right there right i do and i got a pen all right so can you narrate this i'm going to ask you one question and can you write down your answers so you're going to answer this same question 10 times in a row okay perfect now as you write it don't judge the answers okay go through 10 times and then narrate for everyone watching what you're writing on your sheet of paper okay okay so the answer is extremely simple and your listeners can do this along if they're watching us live or in the future. What's important to you? And it's

about life in general. What's important to you? So maybe just write down 10 answers that come to mind and then just narrow those as you write them. Okay. So if I would say these out loud, I would say impact. Number one. Let's go ahead. Let's write all these down. So, cause we're going to do something with this in just a second then okay and how it's it's happening i love it thank you okay um impact people um service um education so like educating people uh with tools and strategies, um, family, um, that's important to me. Um, my own mindset is important to me that I'm like being pro proactive with that. And I'm feeling good about, uh, the impact, you know? Um, so we got six, um, my friends are important to me um having courage every day is important to me like doing something that's courageous is important to me uh let's see we got eight these are when when the good answers start to come to keep going with it keep going so what's important to me i think being a role model is important to

me um kind of paving the way for others here's what I'm going to give you a couple just to think through do not write these down because I'm saying them okay okay um get health yeah self-awareness exercise exercise, financial security. These might be a couple other things that I have an urge to say, and maybe those don't make your list. Okay. So why don't you use that last slot for one, and then we'll do something with your 10 answers. Financial security. Okay.

So if I asked you, so you have a list of 10 right there. Yeah. To prioritize your top five in order. Just take a second because you just did a stream of thought when you were doing it. But what would your top five in order be? Okay. So I think some of them all relate to impact. So I'd say impact, family, being a role model, educating others, so helping them grow and learn. And I think courage, like that's just important that I, I know, actually, if I do something courageous every day, I feel more alive. So I think that's just how I operate at my best so I'm I would challenge you now at this point

okay so okay friends do they make the top five uh yeah where would they be oh and this isn't where it's supposed that there's zero judgment on my side these are just more questions. You know, these answers. Right. I would say, you know, maybe the education piece could be similar to the impact piece. So I could probably consolidate them. And then I put friends as four. Okay. And so what's number one? Impact. And you would put that over family. They're here together. So then what's number two? Family or family impact family. They're tied.

But third role model. Okay. Yep. Four is friends and five is courage. Okay. So you would take those five, right? And you can modify those. But if you stack that up to how society views you successful book. Yeah. Clients. Yeah. Money. Speak speaking events. Yeah. What have you noticed about the two lists?

Well, I think it helps me because I think I'm on a mission to impact more people. If it's with this podcast, sometimes I can get in my own head with like trying to finish a product, right? Which is like what society deems successful versus the impact and like knowing that if it's just this, you know, this interview, for example, helps people, right? Impacts people, thousands, tens of thousands.

So I think that it helps me feel more free. And to me, it's the, first of all, you're displaying great courage in this because I've kind of flipped it on you a little bit unintentionally. I like it, Brett. I think it's totally relatable to what the question was and what I hear on one side and what a lot of coaches observe is that what's important to you is very different than what society values. Yeah. And so do you have the courage to be your true self, despite what everybody else says? And to me, I think that's where your role is so important is to get people to have strategies to anchor in to what's important to them so they don't lose that while chasing this other stuff that truly yeah as you reflect back

on your life uh you place less value on after you achieve it like think about this a lot of the coaches i deal with they go to a dark spot after winning their first national championship. Yeah. And you would think it might be a little different, but it's because they can finally assess, was it worth it? And typically we overvalue achievement prior to achieving it. And then once we achieve it, we can look at the sacrifice. And a lot of times, if we've gone all in on that and neglected the things that are important, we realize that we've made a mistake. And sometimes for a lot of the coaches, they win it in their forties. Like that's their first one is usually because it's a 20 year goal for a lot of people. And so when you reflect back, if you have

kids, and you're like, wow, I raised them with this value set, that it's going to be very hard to undo because they're past the most influential years of me being able to shape them. And now it's like, wow, I need to figure out and really recalibrate my life. And I think that those two columns help us understand how we've been socialized. And the more awareness we have, the more intentional we can be to combat those things. It makes me think, Brett, of their research about Olympians that, you know, they experienced depression and symptoms of depression getting back from the Olympics. Or I read a story about how Aaron Rodgers, when he won his last or first Super Bowl, I can't remember, he experienced the same kind of thing.

So it's like this high, this buildup. And I like what you're saying about how society deems what they deem important to us. This list is really your values. It's what deem important to us. This list is really your values. It's what's really important to you. And it's not saying that the society stuff, it's not important, but like, there's a great line that Jim Lehrer said, the why behind the chase is more important than the chase. And so as long as, so we had him, he was our first guest at what drives winning. Uh, and we wouldn't have our conference if it wasn't for Jim. I,

he changed the trajectory of my life. And the first thing he said at our first conferences, he asked the audience a question. How important do you think it is to know the reason behind what you're doing? And if you truly reflect on that, it's with that level of intentionality, you have to live if you are going to go into the arena at the highest level. That's powerful. And how have you personally done that? For me, it's getting a game plan and it's truly understanding, okay, what is my mission on earth? And for me personally, it's the grow and serve. And then what are the roles that you play?

And I have a relationship with myself. I have a relationship with my family and friends. I have a professional relationship. I have a relationship with my family and friends. I have a professional relationship. I have a leadership relationship. And then I have one other one. And it's right to where you basically go through those roles and you ask, what are the actions that I need to do to fulfill this role in a way that I would be most proud of on my deathbed. And then it's, you set up an audit system to where you review it either monthly or quarterly. And then you ask the people that you're involved with, did I do these things? And they give you feedback to figure out whether you're on pace to be the person that you want to be. So when you think about yourself, what would be within your vision as you're on your deathbed? What is it that's on that? Is it a list or give us, you know, give us a sense of what that looks like. So people who are listening can, I think that think about how they might do this.

I'm mine's a little abstract. My, my goal always is to lose thyself and to truly be present with the person that I'm with. And so the successes and the failures that are generated from our interaction have nothing to do with me. And it's really hard to get to that space. So one of the ways I measure myself and my relationship is there's four dimensions of health. So the physical component is the fuel I'm putting in my body. How much am I sleeping? How much am I exercising?

And what's my hydration? Then the mental piece is how much of my thoughts are anchored in the present versus the future and anxious about what's coming or the past regret of what's happened. Yeah. And emotionally, do I look at things as a threat or an opportunity? And then spiritually, am I operating with something bigger than self? And so I can check those boxes on a daily basis. That's going to help my inner signature be closer to what I want to reflect my life on my deathbed. Yeah.

And I remember, I think it was maybe in the workbook of what drive was winning. There's an exercise for people to do that. Mm hmm. So one of the reasons why you should check out Brett's work and grab something. I have one other question before you wrap up, and I have a feeling we could talk for hours. But one of the things I really liked about the book, What Drives Winning, is this comment about failure. And you said people feel failure when they attach their self-worth to achievement. When this happens, what they do becomes how they

are or who they are. I don't remember if it's how or who, but I think that gets at, you know, when you were asking me my personal examples of how I've detached myself to my profession or to my performance. When you think about that comment and particularly, you know, how failure is defined in winning environments, tell us a bit more about that comment and how you see failure defined in winning environments. Well, so maybe you and I could approach that together, if you're good with that. I will ask you a question, because I think that, is the difference in your mind between these two statements? I'm a failure. Yeah, I failed. The difference to me is that I am a failure. I'm taking it personally. And I'm like, it's, it's well impacts my self worth, impacts my confidence, my belief in myself. When it's like, I see it as something that I did, like I failed. And, and, you know, the more I kind of do this work, Brett,

like, I don't even know what failure is. Like, I think we can define failure on our terms. We can decide what we think is failure. And I think so many times, and this kind of gets to your point that we let society impact our understanding of failure instead of like consciously deciding how I want to view failure um so I think that when I'm seeing I am a failure it's it's something I can learn from something I can grow from do you see how that works and one you like you, like you said, you're attached to yourself, the other, you attach to event. And as I guess a line that really resonates around this concept is the real people, they look at how you respond to good and bad outcomes. Okay. Fake people reinforce good and bad outcomes. And I think if you can wrap your head around that, you realize that what we're truly inspired by

is people that overcome setbacks. In order to overcome a setback, you have to have a setback. Yeah. And really what we're zoomed into is how you respond to good and bad outcomes. And if you can get people to grasp that, especially the higher you go up, like in the NBA, you're going to lose a lot of games, because the margin of error is so small, where in college, it might be a little different. And so their failure recovery is just part of the process, where in college, you see these guys have to almost quit because they can't deal with it. And then they're projecting that onto their players. And then it just perpetuates where in the NBA, that would never happen.

It requires great responses at that level. So how do you define failure we did a a really cool feature and it's on youtube and if you just search my name and failure does not exist i thought you were going to say that one of my favorite videos because jamel hill who formerly worked at espn asked kobe bryant are you the type of person that loves to win or hates to lose? And when we ask athletes that, they usually have a convicted answer one way or the other. And how Kobe answered it is that I'm neither. I play to learn. And I think that when we realize that good and bad outcomes are just lessons, then we take the emotion away from it. And we can think strategically about how we want to progress from that. Awesome. Brett, your work is so powerful.

I, this episode was very powerful for me. So our interview was powerful, helped me think about my values even more and being able to articulate that to you. I really appreciate and the way that you pushed me. So thank you for doing that. So many great. Can I just say it is inspiring how authentic you are, because a lot of people would hide from those questions and you've leaned in. And I think that again, your willingness to have the tough conversations is why you have, I'll tell you what it makes me think of is our ability to influence seems to be correlated with our willingness to listen and understand. And it makes sense to me why people would gravitate you because your willingness to listen and understand. And it makes sense to me why people would gravitate you because your

willingness to listen and understand. Yeah. Well, thank you, Brett. I mean that. Really nice. You know, and I have some power phrases over on my grit board, I call it over here. And one is like, I am love. So showing up like with empathy and understanding is really important to me. But the other one is I am me. So, you know, I've really worked on myself just to be me. And this is absolutely me right today. It's like kind of bubbly and energetic and kind. So I appreciate you noticing that.

That makes me want to keep doing it. Your warmth radiates. Well, thank you noticing that. That makes me want to keep doing it. Your warmth radiates. Well, thank you, Brett. So definitely go over and check out Brett's website, What Drives Winning. He has several books that are incredible. We got What Drives Winning, What's Really Important, What Drives Winning Teams, and now his latest, What Dri winning environments. I also know you have a coaching lab and a conference. I love the interviews that you do on the conference. Really, just really powerful interviews. So tell us a bit about,

I guess I already gave everybody where people could go get your stuff, but what do you think is important to start with? If you enjoyed this conversation, I think that you would really enjoy the books. And one of the things that I enjoy the most is the community we built through the coaching lab. And the coaching lab is something that we do we meet twice a month, you should get in it, you would love it. And there are elite thinkers in it. And if it's, you just go to learn.whatdriveswinning.com. And there's information there. And the goal is for us to just share resources that we all can take back into our environments to where we can impact the teams that we lead. Excellent. Do you have any final comments for everyone who's listening either live or on the podcast? I think I just appreciate your energy that you directed this. I know that

you're very serious with your approach on what you share. And I think that if you, all the resources that you're generating to help leaders better navigate the moments with their team, that increases their social agility and their competitive maturity. So I think it would just be more signing off with appreciation towards the work you're doing. Thank you, Brett. Thank you so much for joining us and I appreciate all the work you're doing. Way to go for finishing another episode of the High Performance Mindset. I'm giving you a virtual fist pump. Holy cow, did that go by way too fast for anyone else? If you want more, remember to subscribe and you can head over to Dr. Sindra for show notes and to join my exclusive community for high performers,

where you get access to videos about mindset each week. So again, you can head over to Dr. Sindra, that's D-R-C-I-N-D-R-A dot com. See you next week.