High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 431: The Mindset of an Olympian with Chris Stanley, Florida State University & Sport Psychology Consultant for USA Track and Field

Episode Date: May 15, 2021

Dr. Chris Stanley earned his BA from the University of Illinois-Chicago, where he was also an all-conference track athlete. Thereafter, he earned an MS in Sport and Exercise Psychology at Florida State University, and a PhD in Developmental Psychology from Loyola University-Chicago. He coached at Florida A & M University and Illinois-Chicago during these years. He was full-time faculty at Winston-Salem State University and Florida Gulf Coast University, teaching Sport Psychology and working as a Sport Psychology consultant with numerous teams and athletes at these universities. Currently, he is research faculty at Florida State University.  He is a Certified Mental Performance Consultant (CMPC) and lead consultant for USA Track and Field for the Tokyo Games and into the next quad. His scholarly and writing interest relate broadly to performance enhancement and development in educational and sport contexts. He is currently writing a book due for release later this year focusing on coaching athletes with hidden disabilities and impairments. In this episode, Chris and Cindra discuss: How to adapt a growth mindset Why stay processed focused is key to peak performance Strategies to respond to failure Why it’s important to savor small joys Mental tools that are “low risk but high reward” 4 considerations when deciding how a breathing exercise will lead to peak performance How the game “Whack-a-Mole” can be applied to your thoughts   HIGH PERFORMANCE MINDSET SHOWNOTES FOR THIS EPISODE: www.cindrakamphoff.com/431 HOW TO ENTER THE PODCAST GIVEAWAY TO WIN $500 CASH: www.drcindra.com/giveaway FB COMMUNITY FOR THE HPM PODCAST: https://www.facebook.com/groups/highperformancemindsetcommunity FOLLOW CINDRA ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/cindrakamphoff/ FOLLOW CINDRA ON TWITTER: https://twitter.com/mentally_strong TO CONTACT DR. STANLEY: [e-mail] Love the show? Rate and review the show for Cindra to mention you on the next episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/high-performance-mindset-learn-from-world-class-leaders/id1034819901

Hey, my name is Cindra Campoff and I'm a small-town Minnesota gal, Minnesota nice as we like to say it, who followed her big dreams. I spent the last four years working as a mental coach for the Minnesota Vikings, working one-on-one with the players. I wrote a best-selling book about the mindset of the world's best and I'm a keynote speaker and national leader in the field of sport and performance psychology. And I am obsessed with speaker and national leader in the field of sport and performance psychology. And I am obsessed with showing you exactly how to develop the mindset of the world's best. So you can accomplish all your goals and dreams.

So I'm over here following my big dreams. And I'm here to inspire you and practically show you how to do the same. And you know, when I'm not working, you'll find me playing Ms. Pac-Man. Yes, the 1980s game Ms. Pac-Man. So take your notepad out, buckle up, and let's go. This is the high performance mindset. Sonia Richard Ross said, failure I can live with. Not trying is what I can't handle. Michael Phelps said, don't put a limit on anything. The more you dream, the further you get. This is your host, Dr. Cinder Kampoff, and I'm so grateful that you are here today for episode 431. If you know that mindset is essential to your success, then you're in the right place. And today we talk about the mindset of an Olympian with Chris Stanley.

Dr. Chris Stanley is a research faculty member at Florida State University. He is also the lead sports psychology consultant for USA Track and Field for the Tokyo Games and into the next quad. And that is how I know Chris. I also provide mental training or sports psychology services for USA Track and Field. And we have a great conversation today. Chris is engaged in many educational, scholarly, and applied projects that we're going to talk about in today's episode. They're related to human performance and human development. And in this episode, Chris and I talk about how you can adopt a growth mindset, why staying processed focused is key to peak performance,

strategies you can use to respond to failure, why it's important to savor the small joys. We also talk about mental tools that are low risk but high reward, and four considerations when deciding how a breathing exercise can help you lead to peak performance. We also talk about how a game of whack-a-mole can be applied to your thoughts. I think you're going to enjoy that one. To get the full show notes and description along with a full transcript of this interview, you can head over to cindracampoff.com slash 431 for episode 431. And if you haven't already, we'd love for you to join us over at the High Performance Mindset Community over on Facebook, where we go live with these episodes and you can ask us any questions.

And you can find also several interviews over there that we've already previously done on the podcast. So you can scroll down on the show notes wherever you're listening and you can find the link to join the Facebook group or just search High Performance Mindset Community on Facebook. All right. Thanks so much for joining me here today. And here is Dr. Stanley. Thank you so much for joining me here on the High Performance Mindset, Chris. How is your day going? It's going very well, Dr. Kamphoff. Thanks for asking. Well, that was nice that you called me so formally, Dr. Kamphoff. Thanks for asking. Well, that was nice that you called me so formally, Dr. Kamphoff. I should call you Dr. Stanley too. No, we can go first name basis. I think we're at that point in our relationship.

I think so too. Well, Chris, I'm really excited about having you on the podcast today and talk about mindset of some of the world's best. And I wanted to start and I'd love to hear and for the people who are listening, just learn more about what you're passionate about and what you're doing right now. Sure. And, and, uh, Sandra, you know, certainly thanks for having me. I was excited to join and talk through some stuff where I can, um, speak into and unpack some recent and past experiences. So personally, on the surface, and in terms of some nouns, I guess, I'm a psychology instructor, researcher, and practitioner. Those are kind of some of the three main buckets that a lot of

faculty and academic professionals maintain. Currently, I'm research faculty in the Division of Quantitative Methods and Innovation at Florida State University. I've also taught part-time in their sports grad program in recent years. And in an applied practitioner context, I'm also the lead sports psychology consultant for USA Track and Field for the Tokyo Games. So leading up to the Tokyo Games and then for the quad thereafter. If I could also get a little less noun-ish and throw some verbs in there, which I think is important. I enjoy educating and problem solving in relation to human development and performance. Awesome. Awesome. Very well stated, Chris.

And obviously we know each other from USA Track and Field. That's how I've got to know you more about your work. And I'm really excited to learn more about your perspective. And especially I think about for, you know, there's so many things we could dive into today, but I'm thinking about for those people who are training for the trials and then the Olympics and how you're going to be there to support them in Tokyo. What are you looking forward to about that experience? So, you know, I think we're still in a point where we know,

I should say we have more questions than we do answers. I think as a, you know, sports psychology consultant, I think I've always felt we're in the position where we need to be the leaders in terms of adaptability. We need to prepare others, you know, athletes and coaches, but ourselves as well. We need to be prepared to handle whatever might come our way. I mean, COVID has kind of become to epitomize uncertainty. So we've had to adapt in a variety of ways in educational and athletic domains over the past year. That hasn't changed as of yet. The Tokyo local organizing committee has offered a playbook,

which is a detailed set of rules and regulations that continually gets updated as the games approach. So they, they try to answer some questions and offer some clarity. But again, you know, I think we clarify as best we're able, we prepare as best we're able with the information that we have before us at any given time point. And we continue to, you know, ask questions and, you know, practice athletic and mental skills in ways that we have reasonable expectation will serve us well while we're in Tokyo. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm thinking about right this year, particularly with COVID, there's so many things you have to adapt to. As a practitioner, you have to be on, but also care for yourself. So I'm sure there's a little sense of how did you get to where you are today there at Florida State, you know, now going to the Tokyo Olympics with the USA track and field team. Maybe just give us a little snapshot of how you got here. So yeah, track and field and maybe

when you even peel that back a little bit, running has always been, you know, something I've found, you know, particularly enjoyable. It did turn into track and field in high school and then collegiately as well. As it so happened, I was a student athlete and a psychology major at a university where one of my professors, Dr. Gloria Balagay, worked with USATF at the time. And she mentioned that during the course of a psychology class I was enrolled in. And that was years ago. And kind of some flags and bells, you know, went off. And I was immediately able to merge kind of my academic and athletic passions in a way. And so we stayed in touch with her. I stayed in touch with her, went on to grad school at Florida State. Actually, I had a

first visit down there, doctoral degree in developmental psych at Loyola Chicago. And then from thereafter, I accrued professional and applied experience at Winston-Salem State in North Carolina and Florida Gulf Coast. I came back into the fold at USATF in more of a formal way years later. So yeah, 15 so years after Gloria originally mentioned, this was even a possibility, uh, professionally speaking, you know, it started to happen. I started working and traveling with junior athletes and then, uh, had the opportunity to transition into, to lead for, um, Tokyo games and subsequent quad. That's awesome. I love that you, you know, first learned about it many years ago from Gloria and then you're following in her footsteps. How cool is that?

So given your work with USA Track and Field, I know you've worked with a lot of other high level athletes and performers and musicians. Give us a sense of what you see the best do differently in terms of mindset? So yeah, every athlete, you know, they, as you get to know them as a person, you see a unique array of traits and skills and interests. And many of these, you know, physical talents and mental skills are malleable, and they've been worked on over time. I think elite athletes, experienced athletes, I think they have that background and reflective practice to note where mental skills are useful for them. They might define them in different ways. They might describe them in different ways than you might detect in, say, a sports psychology textbook. But they can detect where they've been useful. I think they can also detect where they would be useful in a high performance setting.

And, you know, mental skills can still come up as something they feel they need to work on. And sometimes that's when athletes approach us for the first time. They can detect when mindset of the mental game would have made a difference. It kind of makes me think of, you know, talk about high performers, elite athletes, it kind of makes me think of deliberate practice. And actually also speaking of FSU, the late Anders Ericsson and his theory of deliberate practice and how, you know, experts in a variety of fields are very mindful and strategic that is deliberate about how they implement and practice specific areas and tasks and subtasks they'd like to improve upon, including cognitive ones.

And, you know, they put in the time and hours to, to build those skills. And as a sports psychologist, it's my hope that, well, as a, as a sports psychologist, I know we are there to support that for, for athletes and performers. It's my hope they know where to find us. Yeah. Isn't that true? Yeah. Yeah. And I, that I've noticed in my work with, you know, high level athletes is that we might think that they're sort of like perfect at the mental game, right. Um, but they're, they're human just like you and I, and so they experienced doubt and anxiety and pressure. And, you know, I think when I talk to an elite athlete, maybe there's some nuances that sound differently. They might have a little bit more drive, you know I think when I talk to an elite athlete maybe there's some nuances that sound differently they might have a little bit more drive you know but they still experience the

same thing that I do on a day-to-day basis with you know thoughts that get in my way of success and things like that absolutely yeah thanks for sharing that I know a lot of your work Chris is you know kind of based on growth and fixed mindset. And I want to talk with you a little bit about that, what you see in your research, but also what you see with high level athletes, maybe even how you practice it yourself. Sure. How do you want to start on that? to, you know, maybe speak about mindset more generally and kind of move into some of my own, you know, research and personal experiences with it, my own applications. So, and, you know, truthfully in applied areas, I, I often, I probably rarely use the word mindset with athletes. You know, I think process orientation comes up more often, you know, maybe

in some writing and papers, you know, mindset comes up, because that's kind of a, you know, academic term. But I also also, I usually, you know, with athletes talk about process and process orientation. But, you know, generally speaking, mindset is related to one's perspective on growth, and ability to improve. And you can kind of view it on a continuum, where to one's perspective on growth and ability to improve. And you can kind of view it on a continuum where on one end is this growth incremental mindset, which is akin or apparent when someone believes they can improve in a certain area, contingent upon their effort and practice that they put into it over time. On the other end of the continuum is kind of this fixed or entity mindset, which is related to when someone invests in the idea they either have

a particular capacity, athletic, intellectual, or they don't. The latter, this fixed mindset is, it's a very categorical, I think, type of thinking that, you know, you have it or you don't. And, you know, it's in sport, psych and in education and other domains. You know, I think we we obviously want to nurture a growth mindset. And, you know, I again, I may not use the term mindset often with athletes, but I use the term process orientation. And I try to prompt that in dialogue, whether it's between me and an athlete, whether it's between the coach and an athlete and some cognitive restructuring or, you know, some internal beliefs or self-talk that athletes are having, you might even want to try to, you know, let them speak to themselves in process oriented ways and try to facilitate more of a growth mindset. But process orientation slash growth mindset, it has implications for mistake management. It has implications for learning and performance scenarios. It helps an athlete move from the idea that I am a failure and I can't do this to I failed this time. And, you know, what can I do to improve? And so it is

kind of this internalized belief system, kind of core belief system that that has a lot of implications, important implications when it comes to development. Yeah. And if I could say, you know, just briefly in terms of research. so at QMI, quantitative methods, we recently analyzed some longitudinal data with fourth graders. Okay. And we had some predictor variable related to growth mindset versus fixed mindset, and we had some standardized literacy outcomes. And we found with structural equation model analysis, we found significant links between growth mindset and outcomes, meaning increases in growth mindset were broadly related to increases, significant increases in reading skill in fourth grade. And it was unique, this study was unique that we employed a sample

that's much larger than a lot of the other studies related to growth mindset, which tended to be adolescents and young adults. It speaks to the robustness and the robust nature, I should say, of mindset. And, you know, it really, you know, also invites, you know, further study, I think, in relation to mindset with younger samples. But the fact that it again emerges that mindset matters, you know, again, speaks to, you know, this is something that we need to consider when we are teaching, coaching students, athletes down to at least, you know, fourth grade level. But, you know, certainly I would argue that it's relevant throughout the lifespan. Yeah. Excellent, Chris. I appreciate what you just said about how growth mindset is connected to reading skills. And skills and really important in terms of just

believing that you can always improve. Let's kind of talk about the implications here. And I'm thinking about an athlete who is really hard on themselves, maybe had a really tough race or a tough event, or maybe a person in business who might have just lost a sale, right? And give us a sense of maybe the internal dialogue that somebody might have if they adapt more of a fixed mindset versus a growth mindset. Sure. So, you know, I think, you know, society has a way of emphasizing outcomes for us, wins, scores, pass, fail. When you get into a business sector, you talk about sales or quota. I like to help athletes kind of push back on that a little bit. Approaching tasks and goals solely based upon outcome is untenable. I mean, there's holes in it. It'll break down over time. Process orientation impacts how we communicate with others. It impacts our intrinsic motivation, goals we set, how we view failure and manage mistakes.

As a sports psych consultant, I like to process emotions with athletes. And I would do the same if I guess I was an IO psychologist working with someone in the business sector. I like to process the emotions associated with, you know, the joys of victory, maybe the agony, agonies of defeat, but thereafter plan with tangible behavioral steps for what's next. I also like to, to prompt individuals to savor small joys and, and victories. And again, this might feed back into how individuals are setting goals. And so, yeah, but detecting where small progress has been made, and that can be important, especially with high-performing athletes, high you know, salespersons, you know, sometimes

over time, you know, improvement can be difficult to detect just because you're at a certain level. And, um, that next level up is you can go weeks or months without getting that extra, uh, centimeter or inch or extra, you know, X number of, you know, sales or dollars or whatever your kind of, you know, outcome factor is. And so anyway, those are some thoughts which come to mind when you talk about those, those issues. Yeah, I think that's really great, Chris. And I am thinking about, right, how each of us can take more of a process orientation. The thing that I see when people are focused on the outcome is it tends to's, you know, if you're process orientated, you're, you're in more control over that. So I'm thinking about what that means for, uh, uh, you know, I ran the 800 and the mile was mostly my event in college. Um, I ran a little

bit longer, like 3,002 mile when I was, when I was in high school, but, um, you know, maybe how I wanted to run that first lap or, you know, what I wanted to do on the straightaway or what my mindset wanted to, what did I wanted to say, or how did I want to feel at the starting line? Those are all the things that come to me when I think of like the process orientation. Um, what, what do you, what, um, what does the process orientation mean to you? So for me, the process orientation is, it's kind of like the, you know, I look from a goal orientation framework. And, you know, you have outcome goals. You know, I think those are, you know, important to set and to, you know, I think those are, you know, important to, to set and to, you know, consider, but walking back from there, you have to consider the steps that would lead you to that point.

And working with, you know, elite athletes, it is fairly common to, you know, have athletes that have spelled out, you know, numerous training cycles covering months, weeks, even up to a year where they really break down exactly what they want to be accomplishing on a weekly, sometimes even a daily basis. And so you can really get into the weeds on process. That might not be practical for everyone in a wider sense. But, you know, breaking things down and kind of examining those specific, measurable, observable kind of milestones, tangible steps along the way is often time well spent. And it's time well spent as a performer, but it's time well spent as a sports psychology consultant to, I think, prompt this dialogue and work with, with athletes. Yeah, that's great. And I'm thinking about how that's really helpful to focus more on this process orientation at the Olympics, because when

you're focusing more on the outcome, man, that can feel really overwhelming. Absolutely. Chris, do you have a sense of like how you practice this every day as a practitioner, as a researcher, as a parent, as a person, you know, just kind of give us some insights how you use it? Sure. You know, with professional roles and responsibilities, you know, I kind of said with athletes, you know, you have these outcome goals and you can walk it back. And I think I do the same professionally speaking with projects, roles, responsibilities. I find it time well spent to kind of look at due dates or major deliverables and kind of walk back and set some milestones for myself. That can be helpful, you know, from a professional

perspective. From a parental perspective, I try to notice things my kids do academically in school, athletically, they're involved in track and field and flag football and baseball now. I try to notice things they do, which illustrates effort. I try to steer clear of giving technical advice and kind of getting too into the weeds of things they did or didn't do. And, and Sindra, I'm, I'm like you, I'm a former 800 meter runner. And my daughter now has just finished her first track season, and she was dabbling in the 800 as well. So believe me, this got particularly difficult sometimes to project my self, you know, onto her and kind of work vicariously through her. But whether it's a topic or skill or sport they've been working on,

and there's some type of noticeable improvement, you know, I try to, I try to notice those things and make sure that that is praised, you know, to them and for them. I let them know I'm proud of their effort. And really, I want to be the type of parent and let my children know that my attitudes and affection for them is not contingent on outcome in any way. And so I try to keep that. I try to internalize that. And children ingest messages like that very early, behavioral message. I kind of display that behaviorally, but also verbally, try to be mindful of that. From a different personal perspective, I try to engage in and appreciate new tasks. I try to be comfortable with the uncomfortable, so to speak. Even if I

have initial apprehension, and I'm talking about things like yard work, things like gardening, things like, you know, playing the guitar, which I'm terrible at all of those things and more. But, you know, I still like to approach when something else arises and inevitably does. You know, I like to be engaged in new tasks where I'm still a large part of the learning curve. And, you know, I can, you know, sometimes it's easier for me to engage in those tasks. I'm not heavily emotionally invested in them. Sure. You know, it's, they're not career, doesn't impact myself as a professional or a parent or anything necessarily, maybe as a homeowner. But, you know, it can be, you know, I think rewarding in some respects to engage in tasks where you're in that, again, that girthier part of a learning curve. And

beyond that, again, I've mentioned this before, I personally try to savor small joys and victories, whether it's in those tasks, whether it's some professional ones. And so in those ways, I kind of see, you know, process and effort, you know, bubbling up in my own life. Yeah, that's great. I think about trying to do that myself too. I can do it more often, to be honest, Chris is like, you know, just even measuring your successes. I have this journal where every month I just write down the things that, you know, I'm proud of myself that I did. I think that helps me kind of stay focused more on the process and feeling good, you know, instead of kind of seeing the progress over, you know, what I wish that I would have done. Absolutely. Because it's easy to, you know,

wish that you were a certain, you know, kind of further ahead than you are. One of the things, Chris, I also hear you say often is kind of this low hanging fruit. So there's some of these kind of small strategies that we can use, maybe tools that might be seen as simple, but that we can apply really to help us be our best and help us kind of perform on demand. Can you give us a sense of maybe what some of those might be that you might suggest an athlete do or, and we can apply it to other areas besides athletics as we're talking? Absolutely. So yeah, I use the term low hanging fruit. I think sometimes the phrase low risk and high reward also comes out. But that's great. But if you really want to unpack the low hanging fruit.

I guess, you know, metaphor, it's it's that, you know, you don't have to overextend yourself to get something that is going to be particularly useful for you. And, you know, more recently, I've been working with athletes, even this last weekend at a track meet, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm watching athletes, I'm talking with athletes and, you know, something that, that bubbles up often is, you know, how are we managing and regulating in those moments, seconds, minutes, even before a gun goes off or before you step into the ring or before you're cleared to go on, on a runway. You know, those can be, you know, intense places for athletes.

And I think sometimes it can even be accentuated if there's some type of delay, whether a technical delay, starting pistol isn't functioning, or there's you're waiting for a TV timeout. So yeah, and there for that or introductions, you know, maybe there's a weather delay or something. I think, you know, those moments, those intensity, emotional and cognitive intensities can be, experiences can be accentuated and it might take you to places you don't want to be. And so for me, with some recent dialogue I've had, some of the low hanging fruit is breathing techniques. And, you know, I'm confident to speak into that because there's a really depth of literature and health and clinical and even sports like supporting, you know,

breathing techniques as kind of a harness of cognitive and physiological arousal. And I think sometimes people may think breathing is just related to like a relaxation response, and it doesn't have to be. I think classically, that's how it's introduced. But, you know, in those moments before, you know, again, a gun goes off before you step into the throw, you know, you don't necessarily, you're not necessarily going for a relaxed state or deep relaxation. You know, it's not necessarily the case. And so these breathing techniques, and there's a variety to choose from, they can be customized according to the individual, according to the task. You can customize and individualize them according to the kinesthetic movements that you focus on, the count and the rhythm. I think that's the most classic technique associated with relaxation because that kind of stimulates that vagus nerve and that relaxation response. There's also techniques called roll breathing where it's not just the belly, but now you're incorporating also kind of the kinesthetic movements of the chest as well.

And you kind of get it's roll breathing also kind of called wave breathing as well. There's different counts you can experiment with. You can, you know, have something a little more rapid counts where it's kind of following your inhalation and your exhalation. You can incorporate a pause in between inhale and exhale if you want. You can have calm or forceful breaths. I think it's traditionally important to be inhaling through the nose and out through the mouth. But, you know, what these breathing techniques do, and again, you experiment with it, you customize it according to your needs, it does a couple things. You know, particularly with like a belly breathing, it can, you know, lessen kind of this physiological and cognitive, you know, activity states.

Not necessarily, you know, by much in that time and place, but it can move the needle. I think perhaps more importantly, breaths, it gives the athlete or performer something which takes up cognitive space, which otherwise might be filling with these task irrelevant information from the environment, from one's own mind. You know, maybe this is some of those what if type thoughts that they just, they don't necessarily serve a purpose then and there, and it's just kind of creating noise. And so I think that's one of the most lowest lying of the fruit is to work on that. And again, it's, it's low lying in the sense that it's, it's low risk, high reward, the athlete will not have to overturn their pre performanceperformance routine, you know, in any

way. It's largely undetectable, you know, to the casual observer what an athlete might be working on. And in those ways, I think it's very desirable, useful thing to unpack more and work with an athlete on. But the key is with that and other tasks, you want to work on it when time is abundant, if you have that luxury. So you're prepared for when time is limited. Yeah, that's a great way of saying that. And I'm thinking, Chris, as I'm hearing you speak, I'm thinking about myself and there's moments where like I'm on the starting line and maybe there's a delay and I'm, I'm comparing myself to the other runners, you know, like, wow, she looks a lot faster than me or stronger than me. And then suddenly I'm in my head, you know, and the gut, you know, gun's going to go off and, and I'm not really in the mindset

to be my best. Right. So, and, and obviously that's why I got into the field that I'm into, into the field that we're both in is because I struggled with mindset myself and I didn't necessarily have these really practical tools. And that's what I'm hearing in the breath is, you know, we always have it with us. We're always breathing, but like using it more in a deliberate way. And I like, you know, the different options that you gave us. How might you, you know, suggest that people consider what option would be better for them if it's like an option with counting or belly breathing or roll breathing or rapid counts, you know, what's your thoughts on adapting it to what people need in the moment? So, you know, I think I, I think I used this term before, but, but you experiment and you, um, you start and across contexts too, um, in, you know, I, I think you get to know your body's own physiological response to belly breathing to, um, and, and kind of be able to, um, you know, activate that relaxation response. I think you try, um, various counts. Um, I think you try various paces and

rhythms. Um, I think you try, um, it in, um, I think you set up mock scenarios if, if you're able, you know, even in, in practice context, um, you know, a lot of athletes're able, you know, even in practice context. You know, a lot of athletes, you know, talk about, you know, wanting something a little more forceful, if that's the right word, you know, in the moments leading up, and they might have one final kind of cleansing, kind, focusing type breath. Um, but backtracking from that, it's just, it's, it's something, um, again, more deliberate. It's, it's a faster count. Um, it's, you're doing it almost more for the, um, the attentional cues that it's giving you to, to kind of, um, focus on take up again, that cognitive space that otherwise might be occupied by irrelevant

thoughts, or, you know, extraneous noise. So it's, it's usually just a, it's, it's an experimental, you know, approach. And, you know, if I had, if I've worked with 10 athletes on employing this, in some ways, you know, a lot, they've arrived at, you know, 10 different, you know, specific techniques that works for them. Oftentimes we have to pare it down and keep it simple. That's largely what I want to do is keep things simple. You know, the breathing technique, sometimes it's breathing techniques, I should say, you know, they are useful, you know, in and of themselves, but oftentimes there can be supplemental or accompanying exercises we work on again in time abundance scenarios. You know, and one of those, you know, some of these, you know, cognitive restructuring,

you know, cognitive restructuring, you know, type exercises. So when you're coupling these things together, what you're doing is, is creating kind of, you know, layers almost of tools that the athletes can employ and you're strengthening that, that response. It's, it's not just about the breath, but now you have, you know, cues to go along with it to help mitigate some of these some of these thoughts. And that's that's often the outcome. It's it's lessening the cognitive noise. Yeah, that's great, Chris. And I'm thinking about it's having like this toolbox of tools that mental tools that we have maybe around our waist, right, that we can use in the moments that we need to, they're invisible, but we have them. So give us a sense of, you just said, you know, maybe these irrational thoughts I'm thinking

for an Olympian and obviously you're traveling with them in July to Tokyo. And I'm thinking about sometimes, you know, Olympians might even get in their own head, you know, maybe they're thinking about the moment, making it bigger, or thinking about the people who are watching at home, and their thoughts maybe get might be a little bit not very logical or irrational. How might you help somebody who has thoughts that aren't serving them in the moment to be their best. And, you know, and, and I start off, you know, often by, you know, saying that, you know, these, what if thoughts are, are part of the human experience. They really are. It's part of a natural condition. And, you know, sometimes when,

when you talk about what ifs, when you talk about worry, when we do that and we end up being wrong, you know, we often assign, you know, okay, so that was nonsense. That was even, you know, paranoia. There was nothing to it. It's completely irrational. You know, sometimes we worry, though, and we're right. And, you know, that's more akin to being, that's more akin to like intuition. And so I say that sometimes in the sense that, you know, not all what ifs are wrong. And it's not like we're out to expel them completely from our psyche or ourselves. And so, but we do want in some situations like those pre-performance situations, we

want some tools maybe, because that's not the time to be having those conversations. Again, it can stimulate arousal anxiety. We just don't want. So I've been talking to athletes about, again, those, those moments prior I've, I've mentioned that, you know, they they're in the blocks, they're approaching the ring and just, you know, when these what if thoughts start to emerge, what can we do? You know, these what ifs are these doubts about ability, belonging, strategy, what can we do to kind of mitigate them? And a basis of cognitive restructuring is disputing these thoughts. Again, in time abundant context, when I have time with athletes, we unpack these,

we identify some of those common thoughts, and we try to dispute them in concise, logical ways. And we couple that with kind of a new redirected cue, whether that's a word or a phrase. In a way, you're having the athletes, you know, irrational thoughts have a bit of a dialogue with their rational self or thought. That's the dialogue. That's the discussion time. So in a way, it's a personal dialogue. And I think the rational side is putting themselves in a position to protect their own space. Saying we're having this conversation now because later I'm not going to have the time or energy to

it. And maybe some people have had that experience with other people in their lives. And they said, you know, we've already been through this. I don't have the time or energy to get through that again. And in some ways, I think that's analogous here. But, you know, so we go through those exercises, we unpack them, we dispute them, we. But again, that's, that's something we work on over time, we couple it with breathing. And, you know, you talk about tools, and I envision like a hammer or a mallet almost. Okay. And I use the analogy of like a whack-a-mole, which is a game that, you know, you might see at fairs and festivals or Chuck E. Cheese or something like that. Yeah, exactly.

But again, we're not trying to expel, you know, turn off this switch of these what ifs, because that is practical, probably impossibility. But do you have tools where you can kind of, you know, whack them back down or mitigate them or lessen their intensity in certain situations when you don't need them? And I think with some of these techniques, breathing, you know, cognitive restructuring, maybe having some keywords, when you put those together, when you practice them in practice context at meets leading up to bigger meets like trials.

You know, I think you're setting yourself up to have this mallet in hand. And again, it's more like whack-a-mole. You get one pops up, you can maybe get it back down. Presumably another one will pop up, but you have that, you know, same tool and mallet in place. And by practicing it, you're only strengthening your reaction time, you're only strengthening your precision, your forcefulness. But it's a very real, you know, set of mental skills that I think complement one another. And they converge nicely for that pre-performance scenario that I've been talking about that has been bubbling up, you know, in, in very real ways, um, recently. So yeah, you speak of tool belts and I think of,

I think of a mallet. That's perfect. You got the mallet for your tool belt, um, an invisible mallet. And I love that analogy. I'm just thinking about somebody standing on the starting line, you know, with the whack-a-mole around them, just like pushing down those disempowering thoughts. And how sometimes we need to do that, particularly moments of pressure or uncertainty. I'm thinking about, I do a lot of keynote speaking, Chris, and there's been a few moments where I'm like at a speaker showcase. And, you know, there are 20 other speakers, and I have to get up and do my thing. And it can be a moment where all of a sudden, the doubt, you know, it's like, well, where did where did that come from? So, you know, having some strategies to kind of whack that down,

it's not really helpful in that moment to be thinking about what you are. I think public speaking, you know, is absolutely another scenario where this would play out. And it's interesting, you know, you might have public speaking engagements and, you know, all of a sudden you're kind of gaining credibility and notoriety And, you know, you're doing it in front of an audience of 20, then maybe 40, then 50, and then it jumps up to 500. And all of a sudden, you're in a new place in terms of pressure. That happens in athletics often, is that athletes are under the radar. I guess I'm speaking about track and field now, but they're, quote, unquote, under the

radar. You know, they throw this, or they run that, or they jump that, or they vault this. And then in a particular meet, because they've been preparing well, they throw that extra inch or more, they throw that extra, you know, centimeters, they get over the bar, you know, a few extra centimeters they run, you know, depending upon the, if it's a sprint, they run a few hundredths of a second faster. If it's a distance race, maybe they lob off numerous seconds, but next thing you know, in the sport of track and field that can elevate you to kind of a next tier. And all of a sudden you went from under the radar

to on everyone's radar and you're in a much more pressurized environment. And so I think that's a very relevant analogy for this particular work. I lost you. You must have stayed on, but I jumped off. When you, I think I trailed off maybe intentionally when you kind of froze up a little bit. So not, hopefully not too much was lost. I was kind of finishing my thoughts on the public speaking. Yeah, that's perfect. Well, no problem.

Well, so as we wrap up, final thoughts on, you know, when I think of Olympians performing at the games with millions of people watching, right, and how we can learn these same things that they might use in different moments of pressure in our own lives. Is there anything else that you want to kind of close us with or help us consider that we might be able to use that you might have in your toolbox? You know, just some, you know, general pieces, you know, I, I, I encourage people to expand their own definition of, of winning to include effort and learning. And that's not just for themselves, but that's for, you know, younger athletes or children or, you know, supervisees that they may be, you know, mentoring in a particular field.

See progress on a wide arc. And, you know, again, heavily laded with effort and learning and, you know, try to push back on some of the societal and professional tendencies to always understand, you know, people and events in terms of kind of that outcome. Um, remember that external dialogue has a way of becoming internal dialogue. So, you know, try to talk to others, you know, coaches, sports psychologists, colleagues, um, supervisors, family in a process oriented way, um, about yourself or that, or them, um, and let that language and those types of questions, you know, kind of permeate, you know, yourself and and others. And, you know, I one of my favorite quotes is from Nelson Mandela. He said, I never lose. I either win or learn. And, you know, I think that nicely captures, you know, where I come from, everything about growth mindset and, you know, process orientation. I think at the heart of it all, that's kind of the

center of it. Awesome. Thank you so much, Chris. I am so grateful for your time. And here's some things that I took away from our conversation as I wrap up and summarize. So when we started, we talked a lot about kind of growth mindset and fixed mindset. And you kind of also talked about how the best athletes that you see know where mental skills fit in, right. And, and know when they can use them. But this growth mindset is really about seeing that you can improve. And the process orientation is really a big part of that kind of savoring the small joys. We also talked about, you gave us lots of different breathing strategies that we could use and helping us think about which one would be most important for us to use and kind of experimenting with that. I really liked this whack-a-mole idea, a good visual of like what to do in the moment and really appreciated everything you just said at the end there. So Chris, how could people reach out to you if they want to

learn more about your work or connect with you in any way? So I have somewhat of a subtle, I think, you know, web presence. So, you know, I would just, you can reach me via email at C T Stanley. So that's C T S T A N L E Y 800 at gmail.com. So the 800 being my event. And that's awesome. And then, yeah, so if you shoot me an email, I'll be happy to connect and we can unpack, you know, things, maybe a one and off type thing. Or if you have an athlete or team you want to connect me with or, you know, just anything, reach out. I'm happy to happy to dialogue. That's wonderful. Yesterday I was thinking, oh, what's the 800?

Well, there we go. Now it's clear. Thank you, Chris. I'm so appreciative of your time and energy. And thanks for all the work that you do for our Olympians. And I'm grateful for the opportunity, Sindra. Thanks so much. Thank you.

Way to go for finishing another episode of the High Performance Mindset. I'm giving you a virtual fist pump. Holy cow, did that go by way too fast for anyone else? If you want more, remember to subscribe and you can head over to Dr. Sindhra for show notes and to join my exclusive community for high performers where you get access to videos about mindset each week. So again, you can head over to Dr. Sindhra.

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