High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 55: Find What You Love to Do and Other Wisdom from Dr. Michael Sachs, Temple University

Episode Date: June 28, 2016

In this interview, Dr. Michael Sachs starts by talking about the importance of countering excuses and his passion to help people become more active. He talks about the importance of making exercise a lifetime endeavor and finding an activity that you love to do. The keys to the #1 excuse people give to not exercising (which is time) is to: 1) prioritize exercise, and 2) multitask if needed. He also provides us with the 2% solution and question us: “Is your health worth the 2% needed each day for physical and mental health benefits?” Towards the middle of the interview, he shares other wisdom such as a story about Dr. Seuss failing, how success is a journey not a destination, and how high performers “Carpe diem or Seize the Day.” To connect with Michael, you can email him at [e-mail]

All right. Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Syndra Kampoff, and today I'm grateful that you're here ready to listen to an interview with Dr. Michael Sachs. Michael and I share a love for running, and before I recorded the call, we were talking about my recent marathoning. We follow each other on Facebook. So he knew how I did in my last marathon, which is about a week and a few days ago.

And he congratulated me on a three hours and five minute PR. And he said, when are you going to do another one? I was like, well, Michael, I already signed up and, you know, I'm hoping just to get better on my PR, maybe a 303 or 304, just a few minutes faster. And he says, Sindra, why not try to run under a three hour marathon? And man, I came up with excuses right there. I was like, Michael, man, that's just so, so much faster. You know, instead of like a 658 per mile, that's like a 630 something per mile. I don't know.

It seems a lot, a lot faster. And he said, Sindra, you said, stop the excuses. And he said, you know, you'll never run under three hours with that kind of thinking. So I appreciated that he called me on the carpet, had me own my excuses. And Michael, I know you're listening to this and I will see myself as a 259 marathoner. And so I share that story because we start this conversation talking about excuses. We talk quite a bit about excuses

that people provide for not exercising, but I think that you're gonna find our conversation can be applied to anything, any excuses that you provide. And so at the beginning of this conversation, we really talk about how to counter excuses and how we should really make exercise and physical activity a lifetime endeavor. And he says, you know, the number one reason that people say they don't exercise is because of time. But really that has to do with people's not prioritizing it. And then he said, you know, you could multitask

if needed. Maybe when you watch your favorite show, get on the treadmill. Or when you're at your son or daughter's soccer game, walk while you're watching the game. So he has a lot of useful advice along with what he calls his 2% solution. And then towards the middle of the interview, he shares other wisdom. He talks about a story of Dr. Seuss failing. He describes how success is a journey, not a destination. And how high performers carpe diem or seize the day. So I think you're going to love this interview with Dr. Michael Sachs.

If you'd like to connect with him, you can reach him at msachs at temple.edu. And as always, I'd love to hear from you. You can send me an email at cindra at cindracampoff.com. Or I'm always on Twitter where you can find me at mentally underscore strong. Without further ado, let's bring on Michael. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Cindra Campoff, and today I'm excited to provide you an interview with Dr. Michael Sachs. So, Dr. Sachs, it's great that you're here. Thank you so much for joining us. Thanks very much for having me. Tell us a little bit about your passion and tell us what you do right now.

Well, my passion is for exercise and sports psychology, as well as exercising on a regular basis. So when asked to practice what one preaches, certainly. But I'm interested in a diverse set of areas within exercise and sports psychology, primarily adherence to physical activity. That's sort of the main part, both from a public health standpoint, as well as just, you know, as we get older or more chronologically gifted, as I like to say, sometimes it's a little bit easier to sort of get a little bit more sedentary. But, you know, there are all the various things, you know, use it or lose it kind of thing. But more of the passion is just the love for physical activity and exercise. And there's something beautiful about being able to go for a swim or run, which is what I do at the moment. And just to enjoy particularly being outside.

The running part comes outside the swimming in the pool. But, you know, both of those are wonderful activities for me. But, you know, for other individuals, they may have, you know, a variety of things that they do. But, you know, no matter what they do, as long as they're physically active on a regular basis, that's the important thing. Excellent, Michael. I know you have an incredible background in running. You've done quite a bit of research on the psychology of running. You and I connected, I think, over our love for running. I remember four years ago we were running the 5K in Florida at the American Psychological Association race.

It seemed up for either a championship or a second place or something like that. That was very cool. I had an excellent strategy. I decided to choose the fastest. We had teams, male and female, so I made sure I chose the fastest female runner out there. So I have some smart approaches to these things. I love it.

I love it. It was really fun to run that race with you. So tell us just kind of how you got to where you are now. You're a professor at Temple and just tell us about your background either in running and how you got there. Sure. Well, I started out as a I was a psychology major in my undergraduate days at Union College in Schenectady, New York, and then went to Hollins College in Roanoke, Virginia to do a master's in general experimental psychology. And there I was wondering if there was some way to connect my love for psychology with my love for sport, both as a participant, as a fan, and so on. I discovered at that point, this was 1973, that there was a small world then, sports psychology out there, and I went to the NASPA conference at Penn State in 1974.

Just meeting Brent Ruchal, Dorothy Harris, and others there, I was just very inspired and decided that this is what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I've been fortunate to be able to do so. I ran intermittently in college, but when I got to my PhD work in Tallahassee, Florida, at Florida State, I just found that running was the most efficient exercise. For me, the weather was perfect.

It was a lot of fun. I also discovered you could actually do these things called road races, 5Ks and 10Ks, and you could pay 15, 20 bucks and you'd actually get a T-shirt for doing so. I mean, that was really cool and I thought wonderful. So I started doing that quite extensively. After a couple of hundred T-shirts, the lure of T-shirts is less these days.

And one of my master's students did a wonderful study on the psychology of t-shirts. We can talk about that sometime if you'd like. But it was just, you know, running just a pure activity. It was wonderful. And I've sort of, you know, did that quite extensively then and have continued it to the present day. So anyway, so after I got my PhD at Florida State, I taught up in Canada at

the University of Quebec, Trois-Gueux-Vierre for three years, then decided Quebec wasn't the place I wanted to live for the rest of my life. Moved to Baltimore for six years, got a master's in counseling psych because I wanted some applied background. I still had a niche for getting back into academia. I was fortunate to get a position here at Temple in 1989, and so I've been a professor in the Department of Kinesiology here since then. And so loving doing – I mean, the thing I love most about being an academician is mentoring students. You know, you have bright young minds coming in and excited about stuff they're doing and being able to help them as they do their work and move forward in their careers. I can tell that you're passionate about that just by the way you interact with them.

So pretty cool, Michael. One of the stories I'm not sure I think I've ever told you besides before we got on the air was how I got interested in the field was my mother got me a magazine subscription to Runner's World. And when I was in high school, and so the first thing that I always do is, you know, when the magazine would come, I would run out to the mailbox and I would open up the mind and body section. And I remember you being quoted in there a lot. And so I connect you to my interest in the field and just how I got in the field. So I just want to thank you for that. Oh, I appreciate that. Well, that's very sweet, very heartwarming.

I mean, you never know when something you say or write will have an effect on somebody. But, I mean, I certainly appreciate that you've done a great job, not only from an academic standpoint, but also an applied standpoint with the kind of work you're doing right now with these podcasts and so on. So it's very exciting to see young professionals such as yourself sort of do the kinds of things you're doing and the future possibilities you have for yourself. That's nice of you, Michael. So tell us about the research that you're working on right now in the area that you're most passionate about. And I know you're really passionate about

helping people kind of get over excuses and not have excuses to exercise and get out there and be physically active. So tell us what you're working on right now, Michael. Exactly. Well, the exciting part there, I mean, the good news, bad news from a public health standpoint is that only about 20% of the population exercises on a regular basis and about another 20% on an irregular basis. And so that leaves about 60% of the population that is generally sedentary. So that's obviously not good news. And you can see the sort of obesity epidemic that some people call it. You know, if you go to the mall or if you go to the beach and so on, you can see that people seem to have gotten overweight more and more over the years.

And if you really want to be depressed, you can take a look at the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control has some tables started in the early 1990s of the percentage of states that have populations that are obese over 20% and so on. And you can see very few states in the 1990s. Now you get to the 2000s, the 2010s and so on. And I think almost every state, if not every state, has at least 20% of the population which is obese. There are some states that are up in the mid to high 30 percentile and so on.

It's pretty scary stuff. Obviously, one of the ways to look at it, though, is that although people have become more and more overweight, it may not be quite so much an obesity epidemic per se in the sense that maybe more of a sedentariness epidemic, that the issues that we're confronting are that both people's work environments tend to be more sedentary, but also their choice of recreational pursuits is a lot more sedentary between the computers and smartphones and, you know, cable TV, et cetera. People are doing a lot less. So people have a lot of excuses for not participating in exercise or physical activity. And so the question is, how do you go about countering those excuses? And the standard ones, of course, are, you know, not enough time, too tired, don't know what to do, think I'm in shape already anyway, I've got kids, the weather is not good. I mean, we've got a list of 50 some odd excuses. And my colleague Bruce Cohen from Massachusetts and I have a work we're doing on something called excuses size, which is sort of making getting some exercise by making excuses for not exercising. But we have, you know, we have a couple of hundred excuses that people have shared with us, although we have a top 50. But, you know, whatever the excuse is, there are strategies for dealing with the excuse. And so the question is, if you have somebody who is not participating in physical activity on a regular basis,

how can you provide those strategies in a form that's most effective for that individual to use? And some individuals will want to have a book available. Some will want to have a book available. Some will want to have, you know, a smartphone app. Some will want to get a phone call, a text, an email first thing in the morning to encourage them to exercise. You know, other people might want an exercise adherence coach to be able to call, to talk it through and give them some advice, etc. It has to be something that's individually tailored at some level. I mean, from a broad perspective, there could be a book and a website where you can just go, but if the individual is making an excuse they don't have enough time, then they're not going

to take time to go to the website, et cetera. So we've got to figure out a way to tap into each person's motivation to participate in physical activity. Now, we understand that there's a small percentage of individuals who, no matter what, will not want to exercise or do any physical activity. And so they're the folks we'll save for the last. I don't know what the percentage is, 10%, 20%, that's fine. But there's a good 30%, 40 percent who would really like to exercise but just find themselves uh trapped by all the excuses and the stuff going on and so on and can't

quite pull it all together to be able to uh to get some physical activity and those are the people we want to reach and once we you know once we get the percentage of exercise physical activity participants up to 60, 70, 80%, that's fine. Then we can double down on the 10 or 20% to a real hardcore sedentary folks. But at least let's get the folks who might like to, but can't quite get over the hump to start participating. And so the question would be how one can best provide the strategies in the most effective way to get people to counter the excuses that they're making and to get moving. Excellent, Michael. You know, one of the things that when I'm just listening to you, I think one of the

reasons people don't exercise or physically active very often is because it's just hard. It's difficult. You know, and I think about times in my life where, like, for example, after I had my second son, it was really hard to get out there. And it didn't feel good. And it was hard. It was just hard to walk. It was hard to run. What advice would you have for those people who, you know, it is difficult. It takes a lot of effort and it takes a lot of grit and resiliency just to continue to do it even when it doesn't feel that great. Oh, absolutely. And I think the key starts out with intrinsic motivation, with passion to find an activity that you have enjoyed, still enjoy, that you love to do, and that there's really nothing that'll stop you from participating in it. Now, sure, you know, after you had your,

you know, second son, okay, you maybe weren't going to go out for a 15 mile run right away, but to go out for, you know, walk around the block, a short run or something like that, certainly would be something I'm sure you were looking forward to doing, but you found it a bit challenging. But you know, and I think part of it is an educational process, letting people know that, sure, it takes time and you have to set appropriate goals and have appropriate recommendations for progressing from a physical activity standpoint, but to be patient and to let the process unfold as you go. I mean, part of our goal is to have people look at physical activity as a lifetime endeavor that they're going to exercise for the rest of their lives. And if

things don't go quite as you would like initially, or you need to take off an extra day or two, you know, initially, that's perfectly fine take off an extra day or two initially, that's perfectly fine because you're looking at something for the rest of your life, not that you have to run 30 miles this week kind of thing. So everything in its place in moderation and a reasonable progression. But it then comes back to, again, the activity that you love to do. For many of us, it's running, swimming, biking. But for a lot of other people, it could be playing tennis or doing yoga or a Zumba class or ice skating, bowling, Quidditch, whatever it might be. People have a whole bunch of things.

But just to find something you love to do from a physical activity standpoint and go for it. So the number one recommendation you'd have is to really look inside, look for your intrinsic motivation. What do you love and find the activity that you're going to enjoy? And Michael, what you're saying has real consequences because we know that people who exercise regularly live longer, have a better quality of life. They're less likely to get diseases and, you know, diseases that end our life like cancer and cardiovascular disease. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the research literature, the anecdotal literature are, you know, incontrovertible that, you know, exercise, physical activity have physical and mental health benefits.

So, but I think, you know, you're absolutely correct. The bottom line is to find something you love to do and, you know, just go ahead and enjoy it. You know, we tend to repeat or to do things that we like to do and not to do things we don't like to do things that we like to do and not to do things we don't like to do. So if you don't like to run, that's perfectly fine, but find something that you do like to do. Everybody has some physical activity that they enjoy, and sometimes you have to sort

of sneak it in. So dancing is a wonderful physical activity. It's a great workout. You may not think of it as exercise, and for most people it's not, but it's a wonderful physical activity. It's a great workout. You may not think of it as exercise, and for most people, it's not, but it's a wonderful physical activity, and find a significant other, somebody you want to go dancing with, and have a great time, and a great workout, if you will. But the idea is to find something you love to do that you'd like to spend some time doing, and go for it. Now, depending on the kind of thing you choose, I mean, dancing would be

less likely to be something you can do in smaller sort of bites, but something like walking or running or so on. I mean, you can do things even for only 10 minutes. I mean, the American College of Sports Medicine, the Centers for Disease Control recommend, you know, 150 minutes of moderate or vigorous physical activity a week. And so let's say you do 30 minutes a day, five days a week, that's fine. But it doesn't have to be one 30-minute block. If you can get 10 minutes in the morning, 10 at lunchtime, 10 in the evening, that's great. And there are some recommendations for folks to get a dog. And why would they recommend people get a dog?

Because dogs need to be walked. And you go out and get a walk, 10, 15, 20 minutes, that's good exercise. So whether you get a dog or not, the basic idea is just to find a little bit of time to go get some physical activity. Some people like to do it on their own. So I'm, for example, more of a solitary

exerciser. I like to exercise in places where there are other people, but I don't like to do it with other people because I like to do my workout rather than be, you know, engaged in conversation, etc. But there are other people who will not exercise unless they have an exercise buddy or a friend or somebody. And that's perfectly fine. That's great. And that's wonderful because it gets both of you being physically active and both of you get the benefits of getting in shape and so on. So whether you want to do it by yourself or with somebody else or with a group, with a team, it's fine. The important thing is just to get out there and to coin a phrase, just do it.

Maybe I should trademark that or something like that. I think you might be upset. But the basic idea is there. I mean, it's a wonderful phrase. And the idea is, you know, just to get out there and be physically active or whatever you love to do. So, Michael, what about those people who say, you know, I just don't have time. I don't have time to exercise. You know, I got a really busy job. I'm so busy with my family. My kids are in all these sports. You know, what would you say to them?

I would say that that's number one excuse that people make. And we certainly respect that, you know, people have very busy lives. And so there are the two main approaches that one would take. One, I would want to talk with you about prioritization. So what's the priority that you give to your own physical and mental health? And if we're talking about 30 minutes a day, even broken up, if we look at your schedule and so on um can you really say that you don't have 30 minutes to provide and for some individuals they may say yes that's the case so

so you know then then we would go to the multitasking route and even if you have a very busy schedule the multitasking may be there so so if've got to spend time with the kids or want to spend time with the kids, whatever, great. Well, maybe you do something physically active within. Or if you're going, you're taking your kids to soccer practice. Are you waiting at soccer practice? Well, what are you doing? Maybe you can walk around the field, do some exercise while you're there. If you like to run, if you have a young kid, put a kid in a baby jogger and off you go. It's wonderful for both of you. If you like to watch

TV, fine, that's a prioritization issue. But then while you're watching TV, maybe you're on a treadmill, on an exercise bicycle, doing calisthenics and stuff. I mean, there's a whole variety of multitasking options that may be appropriate, but it starts out with the prioritization piece that, you know, again, I know people are very busy, but, you know, unless you're working two jobs and you've got, you know, two hour commute, and even there, you're probably doing a good bit of walking, etc. You know, I would be optimistic that for 99% of the population, we can find some way to reprioritize their lives, and to add a multitasking component where they can get physical activity, that they can sort of counter that excuse of not enough time with those kind of strategies.

Yeah. So you need to find time, right, and prioritize your day. And I know, Michael, when I exercise in the morning, I am a lot more on task. I can get more done. I'm just more productive and my mind is working a lot clearer. So one of the reasons, you know, the, that I tell myself is like, Hey, if I go for a run this morning, I'm going to be, I'm going to get more work done. I'm not going to have as many times where I'm just really tired or, um, you know, fall off my productivity because the running helps me. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I call it sort of the 2%

solution. If you figure out 30 minutes out of the, you know, number of minutes in a day, and it might even be less than that. So you got 24 hours times 60 minutes is 1440 minutes. And if you're going to give me 30 divided by 1440, that's only 2%. So I would ask, can you give me just 2% of your day? Is that worth it for your physical and mental health? I hope you would agree that it would be. And particularly if we do it from a multitasking standpoint, some reprioritization, then you're in business. So again, 2% doesn't seem like a lot and it isn't. And I think it's certainly worth it. then you're in business. So again, 2% doesn't seem like a lot and it isn't. And I think it's certainly worth it.

As you said, you can even figure out that giving yourself that 2%, that gift, if you will, will also allow you to be more productive, more productive during the day, a happier person, more pleasant, etc., etc. So there are all the benefits that we know that will come by allowing yourself to get a little bit of physical activity during the day. So it's a 2% solution, we can call it. I like it. Really sticky. Well, I'm motivated to get back out there today.

So I appreciate you just getting us on task. So Michael, let's talk about yourself as a high performer for a little while. And can you tell us a little bit about why you do what you do? We believe here at the High Performance Mindset that keeping your why front and center is really important, keeps you motivated, keeps you intrinsically fueled. So tell us why you do what you do. I think I do what I do with the idea of, I guess, giving back, I think, or paying it forward, whatever kind of phrasing you'd like. I think I've been fortunate in my life in terms of my family's situation, both growing up as well as, you know, married, having a couple of kids and so on, two lovely daughters that, you know, I've been fortunate. And so part of being fortunate and spending a little time on this planet is being able to give back.

And so for me, the best way to give back is through my academic work, but particularly the best part of that is to, is mentoring students who will also go out and pay it forward and give back and so on. So, you know, if there's any way through the stuff I've written and you were very sweet with what you said earlier about, you know, runner's world and so on, you know, if that can be helpful to some people, you know, that's great. But, you know, that's sort of my, my passion from a broader sense. From a personal standpoint, I'm in 100% agreement with you.

I don't function well unless I have my exercise on a regular basis. I swim three days a week for just under an hour, and I run three days a week for about you know 40 45 minutes a shot sometimes I'd like to go a little bit longer but you know I get enough physical activity to keep me sane at the moment and I have one child and it's going to be a senior in college so once he goes off to to law school then I might have a little bit more time a little more flexibility then I might try to increase the exercise a bit look at my bucket list maybe have a little bit more time, a little more flexibility, and then I might try to increase the exercise a bit. Look at my bucket list.

Maybe I have a triathlon in the future. But, you know, we should all have goals no matter how old we get or how young we are or so on. And there's always something else to work towards. As I like to say, success is a journey, not a destination. So being successful in life, um, I think the most important thing in terms of being successful is, uh, uh, sort of giving back, uh, you know, helping, you know, other people, you know, with sort of renting space on this planet. Uh, uh, but if we're not here to help other people and to do good, if you will, then we're taking rather than giving. And we need to be givers. Be givers. Excellent. So Michael, you

know, one of the things that I think is really important is to, you know, just for us to be happy and live our lives to the fullest is that we realize that there are going to be mistakes and maybe failures along the way. Can you tell us about a time that you failed and what you learned from it? Some time in your career, any story you'd like to tell us? Great question. Well, certainly one of the initial failures, and I guess maybe that was sort of meant to be when I was an undergrad, I was very passionate about behavior modification. I didn't get into any of them, so I decided I still wanted to go on for graduate work. I went on for general experimental psychology at Hollins, as I mentioned, and it was there that I discovered sports psychology. I'm not sure if I would have gone to one of the behavior modification programs that I would have discovered this path. So I might have still been very happy and made a difference and so on, but I'm certainly fortunate that this route has worked out as it has.

So that's probably the one that sort of sticks out every, you know, now and then, if you will. Yeah. And I like that example because it's, you know, you didn't get into where you wanted to. But the way I kind of think about it is everything in our past has been perfect. You know, it's led you to where you are today and you wouldn't have this long thriving career without that, without not getting into that college. Sure. I mean, there are bumps in the road. I mean, you know, you submit articles that don't get accepted or grants that don't get approved. And I mean, that's fine. But that's how you learn.

I mean, you know, I would say, you know, nobody's life is, you know, perfect, certainly. And the mistakes and so on are ones that, as I say, you try to learn from or perseverance. I love to tell a story in class about, I ask them, how many of you have heard of a guy named Theodor Geisel? And it's rare that anybody has heard of him. And I say, well, all of you have read stuff by him, but he goes by another name, Dr. Seuss. And his first book, I think, which was Green Eggs and Ham, I think he had like 27 publishers rejected it

until finally the 28th said yes. And then it was off to the races. And he's one of the most well-published and successful children's authors in history. But he didn't give up. Edison supposedly had like a thousand incorrect formulations for what the light bulb would be like and finally developed it. I mean, you learn from your mistakes and you keep, you know, plugging ahead. And that's how one becomes successful.

I like the example of Dr. Seuss. I didn't know that he was rejected 27 times. Yeah, it gives you really good reason to keep on going and, you know, realize that all your mistakes are part of your journey. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, Michael, which of the traits of the high performers, so which of the traits of the top ten traits of high performers do you think that you exhibit the most?

That's a tough one. I suppose passion, perseverance, I suppose, would be the main ones. I mean, certainly one has to have passion as an underlying focus. And so number one, and you also have to have the perseverance that you're going to keep plugging along, you know, even if things don't quite work out as you'd like. So I think those are the main ones. You know, the other one is sort of having a clear idea of what you want. I mean, there's a process for goal setting that, you know,

one should go through, you know, start out with a decisional balance scale to decide what it is you want to do. And once you decide that this is the route you want to take then you know what uh you know what exactly are you trying to achieve and and what are your long-term goals and what's the process you're going to take uh to get there but make being clear on what you uh what's important to you what's meaningful to you what what are you passionate about how are you going to make a difference you know all those uh you know one needs to think about what are you passionate about how are you going to make a difference you know all those you know one needs to think about that maybe you talk with you know trusted uh friends family and so on and then you've got a you know a clear roadmap for where you'd like to go and then

as they say a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step you start taking those steps and uh you know hopefully you'll live to be 100 or more. And you've got a lot of a lot of seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and so on to do to do great things. And which of those traits would you say you're still working on, Michael? And the reason I ask that is because we're all a work in progress, right? We're nobody's perfect in progress, right? Nobody's perfect. Oh, absolutely.

Absolutely. The perseverance, I think. It's easy sometimes to get distracted. I mean, I love to read. I love movies and so on. And sometimes it's easy to say, you know, just, you know, take off and do this or that and so on, as opposed to being focused on what needs to get done. So the perseverance sometimes is a little bit tougher when you just feel like not so much relaxing. I mean, I have trouble just putting my feet up and just sitting there, but, you know, doing something sort of productive, you know, reading or sending emails or stuff like that, you know, trying to keep focused on the task. One needs to get done from an academic position, from a family focus and so on.

Absolutely. And if you'd like to get that list, you can go to my website, DrCindra.com, and you can just fill in your email there, and it will send you directly via email. So, Michael, let's go to the speed round. Is there a book or a resource that you'd recommend for the audience? Probably, well, aside from the one that you're writing that will come out fairly soon, the one I usually suggest for folks who are sort of starting out and want to get a little bit of background would be Terry Orlick's in pursuit of excellence at the fifth edition. I mean,

that's an excellent one. And then Amy Ball sell has one called living in the sweet spot. Those are the two I encourage people to start with if they want a more sort of trade paperback, easy to read kind of understanding of the kind of stuff we do in our in exercise and sports psychology. Those are both great recommendations. And Michael, what's what's uh best advice i've ever received uh i think basically just the idea find something you love to do and and keep doing it that uh uh again it's uh it's hard to go every day into doing a job or something like that that you uh that you hate or that you don't like or so on. If you have the possibility of doing what you love to do, then that's great. The other good advice is one that if you don't ask, the answer is always no.

So the idea of taking a chance, trying something out, asking somebody if you can have a chat with them, if they can give you some advice or so on, or if you want to go out with somebody, whatever it might be. But I can guarantee you if you don't ask, the answer will be no. So there are all sorts of wonderful quotes about that. But the idea of taking a chance, and if you fail, that's fine. That's just another lesson along the way to eventual success. And is there a quote that you live by or that really stands out to you? And how would that apply to us? The one I always sign off my emails with is Carpe Diem, which is seize the day. And, you know, that's a wonderful,

you know, quote that I just find very applicable. You know, you wake up in the morning and you have a choice for, you know, how you will approach the day. And, you know, I like to try to focus on having a PMA, a positive mental attitude. Some people talk about an attitude of gratitude. But again, the idea to be thankful for what I have in my life, what I've been able to achieve, the friends and family and colleagues that I have. But then to say, OK, today's another day to do some exciting things, to go out and have fun and make a difference. And so I encourage everybody to just carpe diem and go for it. Go for it. And what final advice do you have for those people who are listening who are working to master their mindset and reach their goals and their dreams and their greater potential. I think the final piece of advice would be certainly just to do some self-reflection,

to think about what is it that makes you happy, that you're passionate about, and ideally or hopefully figure out a way to make that happen. Put yourself in a situation where you can make that happen. And then, as we said, carpe diem, seize the day, seize the moment, seize the week or whatever, but just go for it and you'll be successful. Michael, I love your wisdom and your insight today and just your presence and passion in this interview. I want to thank you so much for your time.

You know, there was so many things that I was writing down and that stood out to me as I was listening to you. The first thing you talked about is just helping us get exercise and getting out there more with our exercise and physical activity. You encouraged us to find something that we love to do and to repeat it. And really, the key is when we say, gosh, we don't have find something that we love to do and to repeat it. And really, the key is when we say, gosh, we don't have time, that it's really about prioritization. And there are lots of ways that we can incorporate exercise and physical activity by multitasking.

So I liked your recommendations there. Your 2% solution was smart and sticky, which just, you know, makes us realize that, gosh, can we just give 2% of our day and then we can have all the benefits, be happier, less disease and live longer just by exercising more. And I liked what you said about finding something that you love to do and just continuing to do it and seize the day. So Michael, thank you so much for your time and your energy and your insight today. Thanks very much, Cinder. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset. If you like today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend and join the conversation on Twitter at

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