High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 555: How Strong Personal Development is the Foundation of High Performance with Scotta Morton, Mental Performance Coach

Episode Date: August 8, 2023

Dr. Scotta Morton is a mental performance coach from Columbia, MO and owner of Go For It Coaching, LLC. She recently resigned from her position as Assistant Athletic Director of Mental Performance & Psychological Services from the University of Missouri Athletic Department where she served college athletes, coaches, and staff for 11 years. Dr Morton’s work is grounded in strong personal/team development and holistic well-being.   Dr. Morton received her PhD in Sport Psychology from the University of Missouri in 2014. A product of Bozeman, MT, Dr. Morton played college basketball for the Montana State Bobcats (2003-2007). In her spare time, Dr. Morton loves a good game of PIG, exploring nature, and watching live music.   In this episode, Scotta and Cindra talk about: · How to find your best self · The impact of loneliness in our culture today · The importance of developing an identity that cannot be taken away · How strong personal development is at the heart of high performance · Strategies to develop belonging on your team · “Can we set our mind before our mind sets us.” HIGH PERFORMANCE MINDSET SHOWNOTES FOR THIS EPISODE: www.cindrakamphoff.com/555 FOLLOW CINDRA ON INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/cindrakamphoff/ TO FIND MORE INFORMATION ABOUT SCOTTA: https://www.goforitmpc.com/ FOLLOW CINDRA ON TWITTER: https://twitter.com/mentally_strong Love the show? Rate and review the show for Cindra to mention you on the next episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/high-performance-mindset-learn-from-world-class-leaders/id1034819901

Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Dr. Cinder Kampoff, and welcome to episode 555 with Dr. Skada Morton. Thank you so much for joining me here today. I'm grateful that you're here and that you join each and every week. I hope you're having an amazing week. And today I have Dr. Skada Morton on the podcast.

Let me tell you a little bit about Skada before we jump into the interview. She is a mental performance coach from Columbia, Missouri, and the owner of Go For It Coaching. She spent the last 11 years as the assistant athletic director of mental performance and psychological services for the University of Missouri's athletic department, where she served college athletes, coaches, and staff for 11 years. As you can tell in this interview, her work is grounded in a strong personal and team development and wholly. Well, thank you so much for joining me, Skada, on the high performance

mindset. This interview has been a long time in the making. We were just talking about how we had lunch at the Association for Applied Sports Ecology Conference, I don't know, 2019, 2018. And there I asked you to be on the podcast. So, you know, four or five years later, I'm pumped to have you. I'm glad to be here, Cendrin. I just want to say how much I've admired you from afar, especially being a woman in this field and always flexing her courage muscles too. So I'm happy to finally be here with you today. Yeah, I'm really excited too. And I'm excited to learn from you and excited for everyone else to learn from you as well. And maybe just to get us started, tell us what you're passionate about and what you're doing right now.

Yeah, I think what I'm really passionate about is helping people actualize and really fully express their best selves. I know we've not one of us have met our best selves yet. So that journey and that potential and finding out really what we're truly capable of. lonely on their journey of high performance or whatever journey that they may be on, that it doesn't have to be a lonely journey. Um, and helping them see, you know, qualities and strengths that they might not see in themselves. Yeah, absolutely. And we need coaches to be able to see that. Um, I have my own coach and I think about the ways that I've supported other people, some Olympians that maybe didn't even see their potential. And, you about the ways that I've supported other people, some Olympians that maybe didn't even see their potential. And, you know, so we have a really important role in that. I'm curious, you know, when you think of this idea of like finding your best self, that can seem like really like just a big idea. How do you go about helping someone find their

best self? Yeah, well, one question I like to ask is when it feels good to be them, like what values are they leading with? What are some of their committed actions that help them stay centered in their truth and go towards their longing? And so there's a lot of awareness. I use a lot of the values in action survey to get at the idea of not only who they are, but really what they stand for. So if it's kindness or bravery or perseverance or resilience, that's really getting at the core identity of who they are.

Yeah. Yeah. So powerful. And I think when we understand really what our values are we can use those like as a compass right help us make decisions um and help us yeah step into our best so um I know you played basketball at Montana and so I'm curious to learn about how you really learned to um you know how you became interested in the mental game or sports psychology and what led you to this field? Yeah, great question. So I would say it probably came out of my experience as a student athlete. So I was a hometown kid, grew up in Gallatin Gateway, Montana, which was outside of Bozeman where Montana State was and went to their camps, you know, since I was a high and I always wanted to be a bobcat, you know, and that was an elementary school.

I went to the same class with the same 15 kids, K through nine. They even had my mom as a homeroom teacher. So when you're a teacher's kid, you spend plenty of time before and after school, you know, waiting to finish up lesson plans. So I got lots of shots up and, you know, to create stories and dreams in my head about winning the last shot, you know, at Montana State. So anyway, by the time I got to Montana State, it was awesome that I get to play in my family and friends. However, it wasn't the most ideal experience. And when I share with student athletes today, it's not a woe is me, you know, I ended up having three coaches in four years. So we had lots of, lots of transitions. Um, and so outside of our environment that it wasn't always necessarily conducive to high performance. I also had stuff, stuff get my

own way. And I was your typical athlete whose identity came from what she did. So I was a perfectionist, um, that made me careful, but it didn't make me great. Uh, my stat line mattered, the recognition mattered. And ultimately, now looking back, I think most times when I performed, it felt more threatening than as opposed to an opportunity. So when my career was over, I had a lot of resentment towards my experience, some burnout. But I also had some questions that I wanted answers to, like, you know, why wasn't that experience fulfilling? How did I lose the joy and love for the sport?

And that led me into some classes in my master's program for sports psychology, and then meeting coach McGuire. And once you meet your coach McGuire, right, that that's it. That's all she wrote. And I came down in my little Nissan Altima to pursue my PhD at Mizzou. Um, so the So the longing from sports psychology really came from my own experiences and maybe trying to kill some of my old wounds, to be honest, Indra. Yeah. I mean, that's how I got interested in the field too,

to better understand myself and had a similar experience in college where just felt like I didn't step into my potential or my best self, really got trapped in comparison, you know, and I just felt like I got in my own way a lot. So isn't that interesting how our struggles lead us to what we're most passionate about? And I think, you know, as I think about my college career, it still, still makes me, um, really, it makes me even more passionate about helping others because I don't want people to suffer like I did. Yeah, absolutely. It would even, you know, it's even with that being said, how many years out and how we can see each other and, you know, our stories. And I think that's the power of it too. Right. But, um,

you know, even honestly, I would, I would tell like 18 to 22 year olds and even Scotta back then, there was no way she was going to see a Scotta. Like she had some really heavy, you know, and I needed a coach, but I probably wouldn't have let myself go because of that too. So I think, you know, as coaches,

the more that we can put ourselves back in their shoes, you know, and understand that pain and suffering, the more that we can open ourselves back in their shoes, you know, and understand that pain and suffering, the more that we can open it up to this experience, as opposed to that, we've got it all figured out. And we all know that we certainly don't. Yeah. And I heard, I heard a few things in your story, like that you were really outcome focused, right? Stats, your identity was tied to your performance, which can be scary or, you know, especially when we don't perform well, then we go into a really big low and then that it was more like threatening instead of an opportunity. Maybe like you felt a lot of pressure that you had to perform instead of seeing it as

an opportunity to show what you've been working at. You're right. Yeah. It felt, unfortunately, it started to turn into, you know, the love for what I did turned into like this fear-driven hustle. Like I, like I needed to be the best or superior to others in order to feel good about myself. And I think society conditions athletes a lot that way. So if we can help them reclaim their experience back as theirs I think that's really important. That's about nobody else, but it's about their relationship with themselves and who they become through the pursuit that they need to be able to honor that and that's sacred for them. Yeah, absolutely. And so I'm thinking about, you know, just your,

your wealth of experience that you've had at the University of Missouri, where you were there working with athletes on the mental game and sports psychology now in your own coaching practice called Go For It Coaching. And I'm curious, you know, what do you see the top athletes? And I know you do some work with executives too, so we can include that in that conversation. But what do you see them doing differently related to mindset or the mental game? Yeah, I think looking back, Sundra, like I think some of the top quote unquote athletes were just

awesome human beings. They were just great people. And, um, I mean, if there were some things that I could pull the open and curious, um, they were vulnerable. They were willing to put themselves out there with the uncertainty and not be able to control everything. Um, but in the team aspect, like I loved working with teams, right? So like, I felt like some of those great teams that lived to their potential just gave themselves incredible sense of belonging to each other. Like they saw each other, they celebrated each other. And so to me, it wasn't necessarily always the top athlete with the top performance that was so inspiring. It was the, it was the real heroes

were those role players, you know, that, that sacrificed and served each other without expecting anything in return. And when you can get a core group of young men or women who are willing to do that, um, for each other and, um, have a purpose that surpasses winning. Yeah. That's pretty special. Yeah. That's really special. And I'm, you know, as people are listening, I bet they're thinking to themselves, okay, well, how do you create that sense of belonging? And I think the, you know, everybody plays a role in the culture, every athlete or every team member, if it's a business, you know, you play a role in the culture, but I'm curious what you have found as maybe what coaches do or what athletes

do or what we can do, you know, as mental performance coaches to help them create that sense of belonging. Yeah. You know, it's always, I forgot where I heard this too, and I might not quote it right, but we talked about, you know, if you ask coaches at the end of the season, the reasons why they didn't live up to potential, was it because of the technical tactical x's and o's or is it team stuff was it jealousy was it um uh they'll call it mediocrity or whatever that got the team stuff that got in the way and you know 95 of the time they say it's team and then we talk about how much time do you actually dedicate focus and team that's outside of the x's and o's and it doesn't quite match up. So I think it's something, it's not just one cool team building activity you do once a week or a couple of times before

precincts. I think that's what we think it is that we're just going to go have some with each other. It's something that's intentional. It's something you nurture. It's something that you give ownership to them. You give them opportunities just to learn how to establish deeper richer connections with each other and then the joy that comes from that um the more of that soulful deep wins i think pippa gron just called it soulful winning right let's establish more of those deep shallow wins so i think it's something that you just invest in daily that you may just as part of your practice plan you make it part of your culture plan as well. Yeah. I love that. And soulful winning. I haven't actually heard that. So tell us where that comes from and what that means to you. Um, yeah, I think Pippa would talk about,

there's the shallow wins when we're attached again, that's kind of the outside validation and the recognition that we're doing it, you know, for, um, hustling for our self-worth that the rewards outside of us. Um, and so even when we get those things, you know, for, um, hustling for our self-worth that the, the, the rewards outside of us. Um, and so even when we get those things, they feel kind of shallow because one that's never enough. Um, and you always just want more, right. And then the deep soulful women are soulful winning is when you're attached to the struggle, you're attached to the mess. There's a deeper calling a purpose in why you're doing what you're doing and so you feel it more at a soulful level yeah and and i'm thinking about how so many times we want it to be perfect or we want to not fail or miss a shot or you know we want it to be

easy but i like the i like that you said that it's like attached to the mess because it can be messy. Sure. Even high performance isn't perfect. That makes you think of our great Ken Revisa, right? He would say, are you that crappy of a player that you always got to be feeling good to play well and part of sports having a good crappy day. So don't think about flow. Think about embracing the suck. And that always resonated. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. There we go. Ken Revisa. I love it. Well, when you're thinking about, you know, teaching mindset, if it's with athletes or the executives that you work with, what do you, what do you hear yourself saying over and over again? You know, what's kind of um, you are not your thoughts, right? You're not your thoughts. You don't have to buy in or entertain everything you think. So if you're not your thoughts, who are you? You're the observer of them. And I think that's something I got wrong early in sports psychology. And even as an athlete, you know, it's, they'd say so much like part of mental

toughness, just control what you think, just control what's on your mind. Like, okay, so I'm having this thought that I suck. And so you're telling me this is a negative thought, so stop it and then replace it with a positive thought. And I would try that and it was just not working out for me partly because I didn't believe in it. So I think part of the evolution of, you know, my approach has been a lot more based in mindfulness to understanding. It's not about necessarily controlling all the dialogue, but I can control my relationship with to it, you know, that it doesn't have to take up all the space in my head. Can I have more of that nonjudgmental awareness? And then also get curious about where that belief is coming from and kind of change the narrative. So when you say that first as an athlete, you are not your thoughts are like, huh?

What do you mean? Because I think they're often taught like, yeah, just control what you think. And that actually becomes more of a distraction when you're trying to battle your mind or fight or flee it rather than just to accept it and then move on to being here now. So cornerstone, definitely you are not your thoughts.

Yeah, I think that's really powerful because we all have these thoughts that pop into our head that we don't choose and that are limiting in some way. If it's building a business or thriving in your job or you're doing well in athletics, there's doubt that can happen. I think, and doubt isn't always a bad thing, right? Because it can really teach you about, um,

what's most important to you. Absolutely. Yeah. I think I'm used to David was a permission to feel, but you know, that, that emotions aren't, um, directives, they're data, you know, and they are a signal of something that you truly care about. And I love that too. And so it's the idea is like, whether we call it our inner critic or a gremlin, or I like to think of it as like the younger Skada, but still trying to protect big Skada. No, it's just like, don't do that. I'm like, so that I still feel like the childhood about, you know, like, Oh, I can have more of a compassionate relationship with her. Like, Hey, you're just trying to protect me. I hear you. I see you, but, but we're good. We're good. We're going to be okay here. Um,

as opposed to the, something that I have to fight, you know, like the, um, the, the wolves and which one you feel like to have more of a compassionate lens to that old running tape that's running in my head. Yeah. And that's something I think that I've learned to do as I've, um, gotten older is just work to be kinder with my, that self-talk and, um, you know, have more compassion for myself. And I wish I would have known that when I was at college. Like you said, some days are easier than others that we can notice ourselves being really hard on ourselves for sure. So let's think about this a little bit more. Like you are not your thoughts being an observer of them. And it's less about controlling

your mind than just like noticing and not judging the thoughts. Can you give us an example of maybe a time where you did that, or maybe you worked with an athlete or an executive and you don't have obviously no names, you know, confidential, but maybe a time where that you think that really helped. Yeah. So, so one activity exercise I like to use is I think it's by Kevin Polk, but the act matrix. So I use that a lot with clients and with teams. And so, yeah, Mizzou, you know, sometimes when I feel the pressure syndrome, like I get, you know, with time management, but sometimes the only time you could get with them would be on game day, you know,

or traveling. And so I'd get 30 minutes and obviously it wasn't going to be anything where I was going to teach them a new skill, but something I could really ground them in and help them set their intention before game time. So, you know, we'd often do the active matrix together as a team. So we talk about their values of what's most important to them. And then as a team, they'd list some committed actions that supported those values. They listed their unwanted thoughts and emotions as a team. And then when they act on those, the actions that actually move them away so that they have this idea in the middle, right. There's that me noticing. And so then you just get into them talking and understanding that yeah,

fear and doubt, like you said, are always going to be there, but they don't have to be in their driver's seat. And so can they set their intentions and hold themselves accountable to those committed actions? So in basketball, that would have been like the one more, you pass one more, right? One more play. It'd be great energy on the bench. It'd be the next play mentality.

And then they pick out some pictures to help that really embody those committed actions. And that's how we wanted to judge their success. We coined that as out-teaming, like we want to out-team another team with our committed actions. So that would be something too, to help them understand about what that relationship could look like. Again, that you have to fight or flight it. That can be that nonjudgmental awareness.

And if I can be open, go, there it is. Can we set our mind before our mind sets us? Awesome. Can we set our mind before our mind sets us? I love that. Say more about what that means to you. Yeah, I think if we're not intentional, you know, it's part of like that visual, if it's part of that visualization, that intention before you go out for a big performance, like if we get really clear how we want to experience ourselves. So if we want to lead with courage and bold or be authentic or be present, if we're not intentional with courage and bold or be authentic or be present, if we're not intentional with those committed actions, we'll find ourselves buying into those unwanted thoughts, right? Because we love the path of least resistance. That's our default.

That's our armor to protect. So if we can set our mind before that old story, that script sets us. Yeah. And I like this idea of, can you set your mind before your mind sets you? Right. And because that to me means that you're being intentional, you're being thoughtful, you're showing up with your mindset, the way you want to show up instead of like letting it be on automatic pilot or on these. And I like the idea of like the unwanted thoughts and maybe just by saying, Hey, these are just unwanted thoughts. I'm not my thoughts. Yes. I don't need to believe them. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and what's the Scott, what would be like a unique way that you might

teach the mental game or mindset? I'm curious about that. Um, yeah, so unique way. I think all the times that, you know, we'll probably talk about epic failures here soon, which are fun, but you know, yes, in the act matrix, but then I'd find kind of some silly fun games just to get into talking. So, you know, I, at one point I brought in and maybe this wasn't my original idea. I don't know what ideas are original at this point, Cinder is probably all things I've learned from you and, you know, and our great cohort, Norton McGuire. But I did bring in the operations board game one time. Oh, cool. That's fun.

And that aged me because I don't think very many have actually even heard or played it. So, you know, when you hit the buzz, it's like jarring. And so we use that as a way. How do we move on to the next moment to not build a story about what's happening? We've brought in the trick jelly beans. Oh, you mean the ones that taste really bad. So we do like a mindfulness, usually the raisin exercise that we do with a jelly belly too. We're still supposed to stay present with that moment to moan experience without ejecting out of the hard thing. Right. And still sit with it, even if you didn't like

the taste of it. And so then we say, okay, what does that mean for in game time when you don't like the call that's made or the turnover? How can you relate that? So I just find some other, you know, try to be somewhat creative, you know, in games that help them create some more meaning. And like you said, intention before they go out and perform. Well, both of those are really sticky, right? And I can think of, I think we have an operations game downstairs, you know, my boys used to play. But right, like it is jarring. It's, you know, and how can you stay in control or, you know, not get flustered or focus on what you can't control when there's this jarring call or something that you don't like. Exactly. In the midst of everybody watching you too, right? So that pressure too, that social evaluation, like how am I doing? What are people thinking that's taken away from being here now? Yeah. Next task. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's so many important principles about what you just said

about staying present and kind of next play, right. Moving on quickly. And it's really hard to do that. I think, I think even young athletes don't even realize the importance of doing that. Yesterday I was speaking to coaches and I was talking about a tool I talk about in my book called learn, burn, return. And it's just how to quickly move on and things don't go perfect. And one of the coaches in the audience, she started crying towards the end. And I thought, well, maybe it was just like a story I told, you know, like what she, what she was just moved by. And she told me at the end, she said, you're the first person that has ever given me permission to move on quickly when things don't go perfect. And she said, like, I've always, that's always been like a positive, like a strength of

mine. And people have shamed me for that. Like that I, I should hold on to things more quickly, like hold on to mistakes more quickly. You know? Yeah. Isn't that really interesting? And it was just so interesting how I think the way that maybe we respond to people and, you know, maybe we expect them to hold on to things when really, this idea of like next play is so important because our mind can't be in two places at once anyway that's a really great point and an interesting perspective from that coach too because yeah it seems like sometimes we're conditioned like in order to show you how much i care i have to show you how upset and angry i am about what just happened even not understanding that that's limiting, you know, my potential in that moment. Cause you see it with a lot of coaches. I said, the coaches, you see athletes are reactive and

then you watch coaches on the bench. And that's often something that the coach is modeling, right? So frustrated that their athletes can't get onto the next. And then it's like, coach, well, you just spent that entire time talking to the ref about a call you didn't like, and you had no idea it was going on the court for the next four positions and you're calling plays. So sometimes I think, yeah, right. Like sometimes to model that present awareness and not to react, but to respond the ability for that coach to do that. And for that coach, how she's giving permission for all of her or her players to do the same.

I think that's, that's huge for modeling composure for coaches. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that the power of that is like, that's something that we can be aware of is that we are a role model, um, for emotional outbursts and reactivity versus responding and being really intentional about that. Um, are a role model as a leader, right? I'm thinking about with my kids, I'm a role model. As a coach, you're a role model. Absolutely. And, you know, one thing that I know that you believe,

and I was, as I was looking at your website, Scotta, I loved the statement that you said, like strong personal development is the foundation of high performance. And I really wanted to dive into that because I, I agree with that. And when you said, you know, what, what are the best athletes do? And you said, you know, they're just great people. They're open, they're curious, they're vulnerable. They're not trying to control things. And that takes a lot of personal development. So tell us what that statement means

to you to kind of just get us started on that idea. Yeah, I think, I think part of the goal is to help performers build an identity that can't be taken away from them, regardless of how they perform. And of course, that's going to goes back to those values and committed actions. But I think it's so easily, I heard this on the weekend, do hard things podcast with Abby Wombeck and Glennon Doyle and a great conversation is that so often the athletes become what they do. And they actually become even up to that level, starved of self that they don't have a sense of self. And in fact, sport wants it that way, because that's kind of exploiting their care. You know, they want them to stay totally committed to the sport. And so there's can be some times of an emptiness of not really understanding who the person is

behind the Jersey or the uniform. And we want people that are full of self, not selfish, but more full of self. On the same podcast just the other day, Megan Rapinoe talked about this myth, this idea that people have to sacrifice to be on a team. And she's like, I don't like that. Like the idea of buying in, like to sacrifice, like what does that mean? Like to sacrifice your individuality? Like we need more people to step fully into their individuality, into their roles and be seen for that. And when they're seen for that, you're just willing to give and do more for the team. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're always going to

get what you want as far as playing time, but the idea of sacrificing yourself for the good of the team, it's like the cliche, we over me. It's like a powerful we is made up of a lot of really awesome me's. You know, you do need everybody. you do need everybody to step into their full truth and individuality and as much as you want people to do that you also have to celebrate people for that yeah so I think yeah I think that strong personal development is I think you get this idea as a mental performance coach that we come in and just talk about mental skills or confidence or visualization and we're talking what it means what it means to be human in this world and how to build connection or relationships and meaning and purpose. And I think from the positive psychology stuff that focusing really on that higher well-being and building happy and strong people is really that prerequisite to have strong performers.

Yeah, that's powerful. An identity that can be taken away, right? Like taken away by if you failed, if you don't start, if your coach leaves, you know, what have you seen in terms of when the identity can be taken away? how is it taken away? Yeah, I think that's something that's kind of modeled in sport. And Coach McGuire always talked to me, what sport does say is they don't say, I love you just as much as you are and go out and try your best. And it says, go get good, go get really good, go be the best, and then we'll love you. Right? So those messages that we send out, it's like, even we're trying to nurture this idea. It's like, then they leave our time

with us and then they get on social media or they talk to their parents. They're easily thrown back into that intoxicating world where that's that, that fear driven hustle to be the best in order to feel good about themselves, like that rugged individualism. And we are independent creatures. Like we need each other to be at our best. Um, so I think it's, um, what we're, what you're trying to nurture in a locker room space with a safe spreading safe setting. And then when you leave there, you're, you're against a lot of other forces that are tearing that apart. And that's the unfortunate thing. I think that's what robs athletes of the joy that they have with their sport. Yeah. I think that's so helpful because I think about, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about my two boys and they're 16 and 14. And, you know, this year during track, they were trying to

beat each other a lot. They were on different teams, an eighth grader and a 10th grader, but they were trying to, you know, outdo each other. And it was like, you know, hey, why don't we work to be our best? And we're going to love you no matter if you PR or not. And I think that's so important to talk to kids about because we can have our identity so tied to our performance or our times or you know in our business the money we make instead of doing it for the love and the purpose of the game exactly right I think I again I think those are lessons I've had to learn over in my career too is that the success of my career is not going to be dependent on the size of the stage that I'm on. You know, if you would ask me 10 years ago, like, Oh, it's like, I work with

that professional team. Or when I do this, there's, there were still some childhood wounds that I was trying to prove to others that I was competent of worth. And now it's like, no, it's more about giving, serving without expecting anything in return. And when I can sit in in that, and I'm not always perfect, I so much enjoy the work that I do. Because, you know, that's, that's my ego that gets in the way. So whether at 18, or 38, or whatever, that's something that we always have to seem to be relearning for me anyway. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we've talked a little bit about failure today, I kind of put it in air quotes, because, you know, we've talked a little bit about failure today. I kind of put it in air quotes because, you know, I think about, OK, what does actually failure mean?

And I'd love to get your take on this. How do you define failure? And tell us about a time that didn't go so well for you and what you learned. Sure. So I would probably take the failure definition from Michael Droubet. I loved how he spins failure and go for it. Right. So, and tie that with probably one of my favorite quotes to share is the man in the arena by Teddy Roosevelt or the woman in the arena, depending on what audience I'm talking about. So, so failure is not about right. Going for it and going all in and testing out or outer edge of

your ability or your potential. Like if you're doing that, you should be failing because you're testing the outer edge, right? That's where the growth happens. Sometimes you're successful, sometimes you're not, right? So the only way we could really define a failure then, if it's not about going or coming up short or having success, so the only way we can define failure is from the not going. It's not going for it out of the fear of what other people might think. It's not staying within our integrity. It's not staying within our truth, um, managing our ego, right. Our image of trying to be a perfectionist. So it's, if it's the not going for it, well then yeah, the easiest failure would be be the the senior year scotta who went from being the starter her junior year and got her butt benched her senior year to hardly got into the

game and i felt huge team mascot right and so i was big time hurting and in a wallowing in my self pity i even remember one funny story with another teammate. This was the third coach that came in that we have a great relationship with now, but I literally got up from these metal benches, Cindra, and Amanda pulled out a splinter like this big out of my shorts. And we thought that was the most hilarious thing that I'd sat the bench so long as she actually pulled a legit splinter. And I have no idea where that came from. But anyway, when I think at time that I um, that I failed it, it's, I missed my opportunity to lead as a senior on that bench. I missed my opportunity to lead. And by doing that, I didn't allow the rest of my teammates

to go out and still play free. Cause I, I know they still looked up to me. And so the, the, the pain of not going and not still acting within my integrity my values probably were more than actually getting benched yeah to be quite honest and then you know throughout my career I'd have been in the many times again where I would have let my ego win where I was still probably approaching interactions with the need to be liked or the need for approval and, um, and hustling for more validation rather than staying in a genuine connection with people that I served. So that could have been times where I got too close to coaching staffs where I maybe should have held them more accountable than I did or vice versa with athletes. And those moments stick with you,

you know, where you, you, you, you kind of betrayed yourself for the approval of others. And those will be countless for sure. I appreciate you just sharing that because I think, you know, when you're vulnerable, we just get closer to you and we understand, you know, what you went through. And I think we've all been in places where we choose maybe more of that lower level of energy of victim or self-pity because we feel bad for ourselves instead of like, okay, taking a step back and what's my purpose here? And maybe your identity was just really tied to that starting position instead of being a senior and a team captain. Yeah. Yes. You're exactly right. And I think that identity had been, you know, at that point, 18 years of that, you know, that I was supposed to be a star and stud. And so there was a huge crisis when, well, if I'm not this, then who am I?

But one thing he says, like pain and suffering can be the greatest catalyst for change. And had I not gone through that, I don't know if sports psychology would have, I would have pursued. So, yeah, yeah. It's always easier in hindsight, I would have pursued. So yeah. Yeah. It's always easier in hindsight. Right. Then it's like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's, it's easier to look back and say, okay, what did I, what did I learn from this or what's led me to this passion and purpose? And I think about sometimes like, how can I grow through this? Not just get through it, you know? And like, cause I'm, I, you know, I felt like my senior year, I was just getting through it too. Yeah.

And not necessarily growing through it. I wasn't really tapped into this soulfulness that you're talking about today with purpose and meaning. So, yeah, it fuels us now. And to your point, it's even more reason why we needed coaches then, right. To kind of help point the way and to help us. Yeah. It's like, we can't go it alone. Yeah, absolutely. I probably would have figured it out by now. Love it. And, you know, I think about your own practice now being at University Missouri and now in your own practice that go for it mental performance coaching what do you think are the you know the top couple of takeaways you have from working with clients as we as we work to

wrap up our conversation yeah I think just kind of going off our laugh conversation I think a big takeaway is just the understanding that we need each other. We just do. And when we don't share with each other, like what we see and what we're capable of, we just walk around entertaining that BS limiting beliefs, you know, is that we do need each other and I think the second one is cliche as it sounds is like knowing our true worth and value is um is our truest source of power and if we can't sit in our innate enoughness and that's a journey I'm still on like knowing that I'm enough and that I'll always be then then achievement's no longer the goal achieving is no longer the goal you know i'm at something a little bit deeper and richer like you said it's more soulful and and that's something regardless if it's a 13 year old to a 60 year old walking in it's we all seem to be have that deeper longing um to feel closer with ourselves or with others and that seems to be just some common trends, regardless of who walks in and out of my office. I think about how I grew up, you know, and what was rewarded

was the achievement. It was the fast times for me, a track and field athlete. It was like running a PR, winning a race, right? And how you got not only your family, but the coaches and, you know, the community that I lived in was, that's what was reinforced. So it's hard to, it's hard not to achieve because that's been reinforced to you growing up. You're right. You're right. And it still is too. Right. And it's like, I think that's important too. I think the understanding it's like achievements is not saying like you know don't go out and and meet those audacious goals or have an idea where you want to go but if it's if that's to the exclusion of everything else if you're if you're just setting the goal to prove your worthiness you're gonna come up for every time right and

I think that's a hard thing maybe probably probably in parenting and coaching, like if we have interrupted that story for ourselves to that, we just end up passing it down. Right. And so those are those things, too. So sometimes as coaches and especially in leadership, we really have to interrupt the story so we can really help lead those differently. That'll different kinds of thinking because it still is the message still is the message that's a good clarification and I you know okay so we need each other and we need to keep reminding ourselves or understanding our true value and our being enough um when you mentioned Michael Gervais and his definition of failure um I had him on the podcast during COVID. This might have been like maybe three years ago. And I asked him that question. Like, what does failure mean to you?

And if people aren't familiar with Gervais' work, he has a podcast called Finding Mastery. And he gave me this definition. And he said, well, failure is any time I don't show up as myself. And I've been using that to help guide me, you know, when I'm on a big stage speaking, because sometimes you can get in your own head and you can be thinking about what people are thinking about you. And then you just, you don't, you're not really your true self. So I'm like, what if today, what if today I'm just like my true self and that's my definition. And every time I prime myself with that idea,

it's awesome because you see like the real syndrome and there it's not, I'm not overthinking anything and I have more connection with people because I just show up as me. Yeah. Yeah. And even hearing you say that makes me feel in my, you know, even in my heart. So I'll go, yeah, like that is that too. And it's like, at the end of the day, we don't, we want that for athletes just to go out and be themselves, but they have to know the self thyself to allow them to, you know, to, yeah, they do. Yeah. And it's a journey. I feel like I'm still learning more about myself, even though I've been in this profession for 20 years or something. Hands down.

Well, Scott, tell us a little bit where we can find more information about your mental performance coaching. So just tell us a little bit more about that. Yeah. So speaking of growth mindset, I was just laughing with Cinder that I think I've had to get, you know, starting a business for dummies. I got that book down my lower shelf over there. So I'm still having a growth mindset about my social media and my advertising and marketing. But you can find me at gofortmpc.com. I have an inquiry page. And then shared so many just wonderful ideas today. What would you have, you know, what advice would you have for everyone who's listening and working to be their best self today? Yeah, going off your theme of authenticity, Sindra, I love that. I think sometimes we get so busy feeling like we have to perform or we get so busy just leading and coaching that, I love this word

that that to get back to just what it means to be human-y you know just a human instead of always having to feel like we have to perform so we only have so many heartbeats left you know this one precious life wherever we are in our career and I think we get to really figure out how we want to use them and get clear and put first things first. So whatever that would mean for the people that are listening. Wonderful. Well, I'm going to work to summarize today. You're always really good at that. I always was like, wow. Yeah. Well, today we talked at the beginning about working to be your best self.

And you shared with us just some ideas of values and really helping us think about what does that mean for us? I love how you said like the best athletes are great people. And just this idea of like continuing to work on your personal development is a gateway to high performance. And just this idea of like continuing to sense of belonging on your teams. And I think that team that can be in your family could be your team. If you're an athlete or a coach, that could be your team. Your business could be your team. And I think that's at the essence of what we want anyway

as people is just to feel like we belong. Love your idea of you're not your thoughts and can just continue to be an observer of your thoughts. Can we set our mind before our mind sets us? That's some snaps on that right there. And just continuing to develop your identity so your identity can't be taken away from you. And at the end, we are talking about two things that you see in your own practice is just, you know, we need each other and just continuing to really get connected with your own value and that you're enough. So Scott, a way to bring it for everyone who's listening today. And thank you so much for

being on the podcast today, many years in the making. And I'm grateful just for your wisdom and sharing with us a little bit more about your thoughts and what you do. Well, I'm truly honored to be here, Cintra. Thank you. Way to go for finishing another episode of the High Performance Mindset. I'm giving you a virtual fist pump. Holy cow, did that go by way too fast for anyone else? If you want more, remember to subscribe and you can head over to Dr. Sindra for show notes and to join my exclusive community for high performers where you get access to videos about mindset each week.

So again, you can head over to Dr. Sindra. That's D-R-C-I-N-D-R-A.com. See you next week.