High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 58: Take What the Defense Gives You with Cancer Survivor Jonathan Zierdt

Episode Date: July 22, 2016

Jonathan Zierdt, President and CEO of Greater Mankato Growth, talks about his journey battling kidney and prostate cancer. At first he tried to “tame” cancer, but has realized to embrace cancer he must “take what the defense gives him.” In this inspiring interview, Jonathan talks about how he stays positive and how he sees cancer as a “tremendous blessing.” His mission is to change the way we see cancer and be open to the blessings that come from cancer. To stay positive, he encourages people to: 1) find what inspires you and grab ahold of it, and 2) remember that life is not a spectator sport – we must get in the game! To connect with Jonathan, you find him on twitter  @JonathanZierdt  or email him at [e-mail].

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Sindra Kampoff, and thank you so much for joining me here today on the podcast. I'm grateful that you're here, ready to listen to an interview with Jonathan Ziert. Now, there's many reasons that I am excited for Jonathan to be on this podcast.

One of the reasons that I wanted to feature Jonathan on this podcast is because he is the most positive person that I know. What I love about Jonathan and Jonathan's influence is whenever you see him interacting with other people or whenever you're in the room with him, his positivity is just contagious. And he always leaves the room in a more positive state. He leaves the people in that room with more positive energy just by his presence and how he decides to carry himself and interact with other people. And so that's one of the reasons I wanted to have Jonathan on the podcast. Another reason is, is because right now Jonathan is battling cancer and he was, he was, um, diagnosed kidney cancer two years ago, and it's now in remission.

And now is battling prostate cancer. And he talks about, in this journey, in this interview, about how he tried to tame cancer at first. But he realized that he really, to embrace cancer, he has to take what the defense gives him. And he describes what that means. And this is an incredibly inspiring interview. I think what you'll find is that Jonathan provides a voice and some strategies just about how to get through any of life's difficulties. And so he talks about how he tries to stay positive, how he does that. And believe it or not, how he sees cancer as a tremendous blessing.

I'll just take that in a second. That's his own words, how he sees cancer as a tremendous blessing. And it's his mission to change how we see cancer. And you'll learn more about what he means by that. And he gives us a few strategies, many strategies, in fact, in this interview. First, he says that we need to find what inspires us and grab a hold of that. And the second thing is he describes a lot in this interview towards the end is that, you know, life is not a spectator sport. So we must get in the game.

Incredibly inspiring interview. I've listed in the show notes, if you go to cindracampoff.com slash Jonathan, you'll find some quotes that you can tweet. One of my favorites is this, don't focus on the difficulty, focus on what can come from the difficulty. So we'd love to hear from you on what stood out to you about this interview, you can send both Jonathan and I a tweet. My Twitter handle is mentally underscore strong. And Jonathan's is Jonathan Ziert. That is J-O-N-A-T-H-A-N-Z-I-E-R-D-T. There we go.

Jonathan Ziert. So look forward to hearing what you think about this interview. As always, you can also reach out to me at cindra at cindracampoff.com. Without further ado, let's bring on Jonathan. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Cindra Campoff. And today I am really jazzed to provide an interview with Jonathan Ziert. Jonathan, tell us about your passion and what you do. Well, you know, my role today is I work for an integrated business development organization in greater Mankato. Now, most people would know us by our DNA, which are things like Chambers of Commerce, Economic Development, Convention of Visitors,

Bureau's, downtown business development organizations. In Mankato, Minnesota, we have rolled all those organizations into one entity, only one of its kind in the state and only among a handful in the country in the United States. So we have one high-powered, high-performing business development organization that's totally integrated. And I have the pleasure and the honor of being able to serve as president and CEO for that organization, which just means I get to take orders the honor of being able to serve as president and CEO for that organization. Which just means I get to take orders from lots of people all day long and make sure that our team of 20-plus professional staff are equipped with the resources that they need and barriers are moved for them that let them be successful in really helping build a strong community.

And I get to be a part of that every day. Yeah, that's awesome, Jonathan. One of the reasons that I really wanted to have you on the podcast is because I meet a lot of people, right? I mean, you do too. And one of the things that really stands out to me about you and your leadership and your authenticity is really just your energy and your positivity. And I want to talk a little bit about how do you stay fueled every day and um you know how do you how do you stay positive yeah well i don't know that i know any other way first of all i i don't i don't want to live in a way that isn't positive i i there's no energy to that when you live in negativity

right and i think i've been blessed in terms of i think i might have been born this way i must have been raised by my parents to think about things in a positive way, in a yes way. And, you know, the glass is not just half full, but the glass can always be full, right? So there's something to my upbringing that has to be there. I also know that for me, this is very centric to me from my own faith. As a Christian, I know that for me, when I wake in the morning every day, I know that there's going to be a variety of situations that are put in front of me. Now, I have two choices, right? Either stay in bed and avoid it and just let myself wobble there, right? Or get out of bed and grab hold of the day and know that I've been given everything I'm going to need by the Lord to take the day on and do the best I can. And if I'm going

to get out of bed and go do it, then why wouldn't I give it my best? And why wouldn't I achieve to have the very best impact and to enjoy every minute along the way in doing it? Otherwise, what's the point? I might as well have stayed in bed. I mean, so you got a choice. Either make it a great day or just stay away from the day. And I don't know how to do that one. So I'm going to go make it a great day. That's what happens for me every morning. That's awesome. And I know in the last couple of years you've been battling cancer. So can you tell us just a little bit about your journey and how that's happened over the course of the last year? Well, it's a tremendous blessing, and that will be the hardest thing for most people to understand. As I view the last two and a half, almost three years of my life now as the most blessed period in my life.

And my wife or no one else takes offense by that because this has truly been a gift to me to experience what I am experiencing. It came at us very traumatic in an unexpected way. It was not something we saw coming at all in our life, at least not for me. Cancer runs in my wife's family. Breast cancer is very prevalent. I've always been mentally prepared for that. Unfortunately, it's not visited her. But we're diligent about that. Me, on the other hand, I was not the responsible adult male. I was like every other adult male. Still am, even in the middle of the cancer fight.

It's just a little bump here or a scrape there. Until my leg is bleeding and falling off, why do I need to see a doctor? It's the way guys are, right? We're just ridiculous about that when it comes to our health. So I didn't actually start going to the doctor for regular physicals until I was 45. Okay. 45. That's, come on.

So anyway, three years later, my family physician saw some things in my history and related to my prostate. She wanted me to see a colleague. We were slow in that process just because of my own schedule and when you have to be around for biopsies and things like that. And six months later, I was diagnosed positive with prostate cancer. And six days after that, I ended up being rushed to the hospital with sepsis because I developed an infection from the biopsy and was diagnosed with kidney cancer all at the same time. And was in critical life condition because I had 105.5 temperature

and had lost consciousness. And they had a more serious problem with their hands and the cancer. It was just trying to make sure I survived an attack of blood pressure at that point. And I did. And then we had to go into the treatment process. My kidney cancer is in remission. My prostate cancer is, for those, anybody who knows anything about prostate cancer, it's a recent score of 9.

Last assessed a year and a half ago, it's really a 10 now. It's a stage 4 off the chart. It's metastatic. It's in my spine and in my ribs. It's not where you want it. So it's the most advanced form of prostate cancer. I'm 49. I was diagnosed at 47.

That's not common to get prostate cancer in this aggressive at this age. But it just means that I'm more equipped. I'm stronger. I have more options available to me at a young age to take on treatment options that actually tilt towards cure rather than just treatment that that's the goal here and so it's been an aggressive pathway pathway but it is rough and to what's been the most interesting to me is try to transform as an individual in a really blessed way in the middle of this

to be the better human being that I was built to be, to be a better version of myself. And that's why I call this a blessing center because I have grown and developed and opened up in ways and connected to people I never would have. I'm a better team member to my colleagues. And when it comes to my role as a chief in the organization about culture and decisions it has been improved so extensively by my compassion that I now have because I understand that the way I do now because I'm somebody who's living with cancer and still trying to be an effective partner in this community who's playing a small part I meant to do that publicly and at

the same time how can I help other people in the world of cancer? And where can I make a difference in that? So I've started to dedicate a lot more of my time to the fight against cancer and the awareness of cancer. It was only decades ago that you didn't say the words. People went into hiding. They went into retreat. And there's still a lot of people that walk around.

And right now, when they learn that my cancer is metastatic, the look on people's faces that I see so often is, that's tragic, he's not going to be here very long. Because that is the data around metastatic cancer. For my cancer, it would be three to five years. I have a 3% to 10% chance of living three to five years. But none of us believe that because the technology I have available to me through the Mayo Clinic in Rochester

and the physician care that I have through multiple physician providers here in the Mankato Clinic and Mayo Clinic, they have technologies and resources available to them that don't exist in really any part of the country. So they can talk about cure. And that changes the conversation. And so we're not talking about how just to get another five years off Jonathan's life or 10 or even 20. We're talking about how to make something else be the end of my life, not cancer. That's a great place to be. But it means I've got to work at it, right?

I've got to be a participant in that process. But it's changed my perspective on life totally. Wow. In a great way. Yeah. I'm just sitting here, and I'm moved by what you said because I think so many times, and maybe even my initial reaction if I got cancer would be to blame somebody or to feel sorry for myself. And what I hear you saying is like that it's a blessing and that it's made you maybe more inspired, more intentional, more compassionate with others. Was your initial reaction to have that blessing perspective,

or do you think that's something that you developed over time the last couple of years? I think that piece probably developed, but it didn't take very long. I mean, right away when I was diagnosed, Ginger and I had the normal reaction anybody would for a couple of days. I mean, it was very quiet. We didn't talk to anybody. It was just us. We cried. We didn't know what this meant for life, how it would change.

We had that period of sadness of this is going to be difficult. What changes? What happens? What's the prognosis? I mean, we didn't even know answers. So we didn't even talk. We couldn't talk to even parents because we didn't know what the prognosis was. We just had the call from the doctor that said it came back positive. Let's meet next week.

We never got to the meeting because I ended up in the hospital with sepsis. But we knew right away, once I hit the hospital, even before we got there, Ginger and I knew that in my role in this community, there was no way we could do this quietly. There was no way I was going to be able to go through treatment without a lot of people knowing. It's just the role I play. And for me, that was the revelation really quick is I'm here. People can talk about coincidences. For me, it's what I call God's synchronicity. Things line up. And so for me, it became very clear. I'd been given the last 10 years of my life to build a stage and a community here and a presence in a way that built some trust and validity and a connection with people that if I were to come out and talk about this and try to live my life in the way that people had seen it and still contribute and battle cancer at the same

time, could I change the way we began to think about cancer? Could I change the way people thought about their relatives and their friends and even themselves if they ever got diagnosed? Could I put a different face on it? So we knew right away that we had to do that. So then when you get hospitalized and you show up on the evening news 24 hours later at the headline, you know, we're announcing that, boy, that brings the world into perspective in a hurry. Now we caused that because I had a little bunch of people know I was in the hospital, my board, key volunteers, but we knew that's what we needed to do. So we knew from the outset we wanted to use this in a positive way to make a difference. I'm not sure I grabbed the word blessing until maybe at least a few weeks or a few months in

that I began to realize, wow, this is going to change me in profound ways. It's not just about what I can do to others. This is going to make me a better version. Well's not just about what I can do to others. This is going to make me a better version. Well, there is the lesson, right? What comes to me that makes me better so that I can be a better servant and serve people better. That's a blessing. And Jonathan, how would you say that it's changed you? Like what are the ways when you say best version of yourself, which I think is a really cool way of like symbolizing it and describing it, but how has it changed you? Well, first of all, one of the things I'm able to connect to I think is a really cool way of symbolizing it and describing it.

But how has it changed you? Well, first of all, one of the things, I'm able to connect to people that I never connected to before. Because I have this world that people see me on the front page of the paper and on the news, dressed all the time, and here we go. So he's this figure. But the reality is I share ailments. I share maladies that all of us have. I'm not a superstar. I'm no different. Everybody who's walking on the street has difficulties in life

and challenges. And so now I'm like them. I'm a normal person, right? I'm not this high-powered public figure or whatever it might be that people have this perception just because my goal, I've never been that person, but the title gives you those things, right? I'm normal, and now I'm even more normal because I have maladies, right, and a significant one at that. So that's normalized me in a way that lets me have conversations with anybody, and the CaringBridge posts I get from people that say, you don't know me, but, right, this is how you've touched me, or Jay--Z Strong or whatever it might be. But then there's also this way that I have towards people.

So I work with a lot of people in the course of the day, and I am more conscious of the things that are affecting their life beyond work. And I'm more attentive to that. I'm more interested in that. I just on my way in this morning, I got a text from somebody who thanked me for a note I'd sent them about an article that they had done. And I loved what they did with it. And then they sent their prayers to me for the chemo treatment. And I just sent them a note back and said, it wasn't a problem. It was the least I could do for the work you've done. But prayers of peace and blessings to you as well today. And, you know, it's just, and when people on our team here have something in their family that might happen that's health related, my, the culture we have

here are one of supporting that person. We've got your back, go do what you got to do. But we recently had one of our staff members who's dealing with a traumatic situation in the family. And I just said, they didn't know when they'd make a return. And I said, look, you don't have anything to worry about here. We have a team of people that will back you up. We'll find our way. You've taught us well. If at some point work is a welcome diversion for you and you feel like you want to engage, feel free to. But don't feel obligated.

There is no obligation or expectation of our end. But if it helps you, if you need a break, right, go ahead. We're not going to kick you away. We're here to help you in however we can. And even in our own team here, well, okay, this person's away. How do you handle payroll? Right? And our person who leads that says, look, I'm just going to, we'll just clear that up when everything settles and she's back and we know what kind of time. Yeah, no problem. Take care of it then. Instead of, you know, hey, we got to fill this out and you're away. In the middle of

a tragedy in a family, Let's talk about things like FMLA. Are you kidding me? No, that's not what they should be thinking about. And that wasn't me. That was somebody else on our team. That's the culture, right? But culture starts from leadership. I wouldn't have been like that four years ago, Sandra. I was much more compartmentalized. Work is work, right? Here, focus. Driven. I'm driven, right? I'm impatient. I want to get things done. But that's been softened to be a human being and compassionate towards people. Make no mistake, my urgency and my drivenness is probably heightened.

Because I now see more mortality in a different way. I mean, I know we're going for a cure, right? And I know that that's a possibility. And I know I have great treatment. And my life is going to be extended far beyond what the data says it can be. And frankly, my life is going to go from something other than this cancer. But there is a part of all of us that have to accept that the cancer could take me. So my days are a day and an opportunity for me to make a difference. None of us have a guarantee for tomorrow.

We don't have a guarantee that when we leave here, we're going to make it where we think we're going. But I live with a heightened sense on that now, I think. And that makes me better just because I have this urgency, a sense of urgency. It isn't, it's not paralyzing to others. It's not overwhelming. It's just a drive that says, hey, own the moment.

We got an opportunity now, seize the day. What was the movie? Carpe Diem, Poets, Dead Poets We got an opportunity now. Seize the day. What was the movie? Carpe Diem. Poets. Dead Poets Society. Yeah, absolutely. Seize the day. Why be afraid to confront somebody? If there's an issue that's not going right, why put it off till tomorrow? Address it today. Isn't that what they teach us all along about reinforcement? Address it when it happens. Don't wait for a week. Remember that thing that happened then? I mean, get at it. Yeah, yeah. You sleep better, everything happens, right? And Jonathan, what advice would you give to other people who, like what you said in terms of everyone's dealing with some difficulty.

They are. Everyone. And I think that's really important to recognize when we're walking down the street. Ginger calls it what's in their backpack. That's what she tells me. Or the baby in the back seat. What can't we see that we assume is happening in their life? Unpack that backpack. Look in the back seat. know have this this attitude of gratitude um what advice would you give to them for those people who are going through difficult moments um is there anything any strategy any tool that you could

you could um recommend for people who are struggling to see um their difficulty as a blessing or their difficulty as an opportunity to grow and learn and be the best version well it's right there even even part framed it, right? So don't focus on the difficulty, right? Focus on what can come from that difficulty. A friend of mine who was diagnosed with cancer about a year and a half ago called me right after he was diagnosed, and he said to me, Jonathan, he told me all about it, and I said, look, there's a couple of things I've learned in the first year that I'll share with you. There's a lot, but let me just give you two.

First of all, understand that people are going to want to help you. It's going to be overwhelming, and they're going to ask what they can do. They're not going to know, and you probably won't know. And so it might be hard to tell them what you want. That's okay. But if somebody says they want to do something for you and they tell you what they want to do, let them do that. Even if you think you can, let them do it. It's for them, right?

They need to feel like they're a part of it. Think of how you're helping that person. They didn't ask. They didn't offer because it was an obligation and because it's an inconvenience to them. This is their way. They don't know another way. Let them have that. And for you, it'll be great because, first of all, it's an inconvenience to them. This is their way. They don't know another way. Let them have that. And for you, it'll be great.

Because first of all, it's helping you through a difficult time. Somebody's bringing you food, taking you for... How is that a bad thing? We all want to go through life wishing we had a cook at home and a driver during the day. People are offering to do that for you.

Live it up, right? Take advantage of it. Well, don't take advantage of it, but let it come to you, right? So it's the first thing. Let people help you. The second thing that I said to him is, if you are willing, if you're daring, if you can have the courage, allow this thing that has happened to you that looks like it's bad and this difficult situation, allow yourself to see the positive in it. Open yourself up to what's going to come upon you in good ways,

to the blessings that will pour themselves out, to the changes that can come. If you'll allow yourself to do that, you'll be able to focus on what good can come from this and not on all the difficulties and the pains and the suffering that you're going to. I'm not saying ignore that and that somehow you'll miss all of it and it'll be like some sort of sedative or narcotic that it's not going to do that but but if you allow those things to be poured upon you you're

going to be a better person and this experience can be positive rather than negative for you just open yourself up for that those are the two pieces of advice that i gave to him and then i you know on the other end i had um i spoke at a survivor's rally about a month ago, and I talked extensively about my journey as a survivor. In the middle of that, some people caught on to my faith pieces, and they wanted to hear more of my experience with God. So I talked about all that. Then there was a gentleman in the audience who said to me, Jonathan, I don't share your God. I know you're probably telling me I'm just not looking and he's there.

He said, but I don't share. So as a person who's not of faith like you, how would you advise me I could get through something like this if I were diagnosed? And I'm so pleased the Holy Spirit just took control of me at that moment because I'm a human being and I'm capable of judging and saying something like, well, that's too bad. But I didn't. Thank you. Not in my control. But I simply said to him, first of all, there's a lot of things I could say, but I'm going to give you two things. Number one, all of us havebased executive leader, whether it be United Way, Boy Scouts, Chamber of Commerce, business stuff. That's just been my call for 25 years. So what is it? Maybe for you it's a pet. Maybe it's a tree

you planted 20 years ago. Maybe it's a painting you did or received. I don't know what it is, but whatever it is that inspires you, that centers you, grab hold of that and let it give you energy in the morning. When you get up in the morning, instead of thinking about, oh, my back aches or whatever, just go look at that picture that makes you happy. Go look out your window and look at the tree that you planted 12 years ago and let that move you in a positive way. And then that leads to the second point. Life's not a spectator sport. It demands you get in the game. You can't say, okay, I'm happy now. Things are going to be good. And then somehow expect that everything's going to be. You can't sit in the bleachers, right? You can. And you can,

Monday morning quarterback, you can criticize the coach, but did you get in that game? Right? Did you get out there and try it? Get out there and try it. Life begs of you to get engaged. God doesn't steer a parked car. You got to go. And so that's the second piece. Whatever it is, get engaged. I had to make the choices to accept to go through the therapies I'm going to go through. It was my decision to go to the YMCA three times this week and work out and go for a walk the other two mornings. I'm not getting back in the pool because lots of people are telling me that's a bad idea, getting low blood counts and potential germs. I miss it horribly. But I'm going to go play golf today, which is the first time I've played golf all season because the treatments, et cetera,

just kept me away from the golf course. But yesterday was my second round of chemo, and my doctor said to me, Greenlight, go play golf tomorrow. Cover yourself up. Protect yourself from the sun. Tomorrow's going to be one of the worst days for you in terms of sun exposure. So as long as you're covered, I don't have any problem with you playing golf. But that's me getting in the game, right? It's goals to prove to myself, I'm going to be stronger physically. I'm going to be stronger mentally. I'm going to be stronger spiritually than this cancer. I cannot let it beat me. So I have to try to live my life the best I can, at the same time adapting to the demands that the cancer will have of me. When it hits me hard on Sunday, and it will, it'll be miserable,

the worst flu you could ever imagine type of a thing. I've got to let it do what it's going to do. And I've got to, hey, the British Open is on on Sunday, so I can watch that early in the morning with a pail next to me whatever it is but you know what I'm going to make the most of that situation hey I get to watch a British Open Sunday morning you know or whatever it might be but in the meantime today I'm going to live I'm going to live big today right so I'm going to work I'm doing this interview with you I'm going to go play golf I'm going to go to relay for life tonight maybe tomorrow I'll get a little bit more and I'll get to do some more but Sunday I expect

Sunday Monday Tuesday probably won't be as well maybe I'll get a little bit more and I'll get to do some more, but Sunday I expect Sunday, Monday, Tuesday probably won't be as well. Maybe I'll get to the office. Maybe I won't, but let it. Take what the defense gives you and play off it. But at some point the defense is going to lose its blitzing ability and when it loses its blitz on day 8 or 10, whatever it is, then here I come with a suit

and a tie back to the full schedule and I'll live the next 11, 12 days to the tilt and then we'll do round 3 and we'll repeat and so take what the defense gives you and so get off the couch get engaged but adapt right i can hurt myself if i push too far right i i can it's bad so i have to read and be so self-aware of yeah every pain in my body and what it's indicating to me and how to get out of situation i carry a you know you know, people call it a man bag. Ginger calls it my crash bag. It's loaded with a thermometer.

It's a walking pharmacy for me. I think I've got to get a bigger one because I've got more pills now that I've got to carry with me. So I think I've got to get a bigger bag over the weekend. But I'm prepared, right? And I just have to read things and know how to get out. I'm constantly aware of restrooms, where they are, what are my escape closets.

That's just life. But okay, it doesn't stop me. I drove to the Twin Cities last Friday for an appointment that I had at 9 in the morning. So I had to leave at 6.30. All by myself, Sindra. I drove to the Twin Cities,

went to my appointment, had a couple of appointments, drove by my mom, I was home by 2.30. All by myself. What a. I drove to the Twin Cities, went to my appointment, had a couple of appointments, drove by my home. I was home by 2.30. All by myself. What a grand day it was, right? And I think that was the day after I, yeah, it was the night before my hair fell out and I had to shave my head.

And so what a deal, right? But you do those things. And one of the greatest gifts I've gotten here in this community, and I did a TV interview about it, is I didn't realize it until I did the interview. So this is January, February. What this community let me do after being diagnosed with cancer was to live with cancer. As I said in the interview, I still got to be Jonathan Zierk, President and CEO for Greater

Manicator Girlhood Community, somebody who's engaged in the community, doing the best they can to help the community be the best it can be, and the people in it have the best lives possible. They let me do that. People didn't tell me, hey, you should probably take a leave of absence. People didn't tell me, hey, scroll back, and we need to get, you know, we need to schedule the calendar back. We've had to do some of those things off and on. But what they said is, Jonathan, you get to dictate that. What I told my team was, don't cut me out of anything.

I will tell you if I don't think I can do something. I'll ask for backup. I'll remove myself. I'm learning that, but don't make decisions for me. Don't assume that, well, he had chemo yesterday, so we're not going to see him today. So I think they're surprised sometimes when I walk in like, well, the guy just had chemo. Darn right. Yep. and he was at the Y working out, pushing weights this morning, right? Because that's part of me. So let me dictate that. If you don't, you take that away from me. And the moment you do that, you start to take away my drive.

You start to take my reasons for living. I'm here to help make differences, to help make things happen. I'm here to be a part of life in so many different ways. And if you ask me to go put myself in a bubble and stay at home, then you take those things away from me. So when I start stacking things up about having treatment and then go and doing this, that's just me saying, this is my life. I need to figure out how it can work with cancer.

But as Ginger said to me, I need to be able to accept the fact that I can't tame the cancer. Absolutely. That I need to learn how to adapt to it as part of my life and move through it. And the survival of the fittest notion is about those who adapt, not who are the most strongest. And so I'm learning that.

And she reminds me of that. I couldn't do any of this if I didn't have, in my opinion, the world's greatest caregiver. Ginger is my Clarence. Remember A Wonderful Life? Absolutely. Right? And the bell and Clarence? Ginger is my Clarence. life absolutely right and the bell and clearance ginger is my clearance and i talk about her being my angel and and her love and her care and her compassion and her tears um for me as i told her this morning i walked back in from the wine she had tears on her face because you know we came home yesterday and i said you know ginger there's a part of me that doesn't want you to cry and And on the same token, I love that you do.

Because it tells me your depth of love and compassion and concern. And that just powers me to know that life means that much to us. Absolutely. And so it's incredible, right? And if she didn't give me that, if this community didn't let me be who I am, yeah, he's got cancer. So what? So what? That's what we've tried to turn this into, and they've let me do that.

Nobody's asked me to scale back and to be less. They're letting me do more. They're letting me pick and choose and be in dictation of that. But we're not talking about anything short-term. We're talking about long-term things. And people have adapted, and it's brought out the best in our team. They're better today than they were four years ago. They're stronger. Our 20 some people are more equipped, they're stronger, they're more empowered because they've had to be. And that makes us a better

organization and we serve our community better because they need less from me. I get to think bigger strategically. They don't need me for day to day. They're exceptional. That's what the community has given me in all of this. If I hadn't have had that, then that would affect the way I think about everything. I mean, imagine having the things that are important community has given me in all of this. If I hadn't have had that, then that would affect the way I think about everything. I mean, imagine having the things that are important to you taken away from you because of something like a cancer. Whatever it is, it doesn't have to be that. It could be anything else. But when you lose the things that matter to you and somebody doesn't let you do those. One of the first people I worked for 27 years ago stifled me. I wanted to do things

they said, we're not going to do it that way. That's a bad idea. What I learned quickly, I was only 24 at the time. What I learned quickly was having freedom, creativity to go where I wanted was critical to me. If I didn't have it as a professional, it shut me down and I had no fulfillment in the job. I left that job inside of three months, right? That was it. I knew. And ever since then, I've been fortunate to be at the top of the food chain, right? At the age of 25, 26, I was the executive director of United Way. And I've never stopped being the executive in charge. But I also live by this adage, right?

That if I want freedom, if I want liberty to make choices and be creative and be empowered, then I have to give the same away every day. It can't be just with me. And I'll be like that person who I work for who said, I'm in charge. I get the freedoms and the liberties to make the choices, not you. You're the robot, and you do what I tell you to do. I didn't hire you for your creativity. I live 180 degrees different than that.

Yeah, absolutely. I know I cherish it. So I try to create an environment for our folks that defaults to their creativities and their wisdoms. Even if I don't agree, that's okay. I need to hear it. I'm not the smartest guy, but I'm really good at surrounding myself with really smart people and good people. My job is to let them run. Give them what they need. Let them be the best versions of themselves that they can be as well.

So there's a lot of those lessons I've learned and whether it's cancer or anything else right it's all about it's all about being able to do what drives you your strength that gives you power and that's not just me it's for others so if anybody loses those things it deflates them it takes those things away from them yeah you know johnson there's a few things that i heard in this your response to that i heard that you are intentional with your inspiration so you know, Jonathan, there's a few things that I heard in response to that. I heard that you are intentional with your inspiration. So, you know, you really think about what inspires you, and then you intentionally make that part of your practice. And I think people can easily just feel sorry for themselves.

Absolutely. But, you know, what I hear you doing is, like, knowing what drives you, staying true to you and like getting in the game. And what impresses me is you did have chemo yesterday. You're playing golf today. You know, um, and I know Sunday's probably going to be bad and Sunday's going to be bad. You know, you said something earlier about how you want to change the way people view cancer. How, how do you want to change that? And how do you think that they view it right now? Well, I don't want them to feel sorry for people, right?

The point you just said. I don't want, I mean, I've been bald for a week. I'm still not used to looking at myself in a glass or reflection, although this morning it changed a little. I thought, okay, I recognize that guy now with no hair. Doesn't look that bad, right? But I don't want them to see somebody like me and go, oh, he lost all his hair. Look at him.

I'm trying to still represent some virulence and strength, but cancer can take its toll, and the eyes can get dark, and you can lose weight or gain weight. But I don't want people to feel sorry for me in the middle of that. I want them to see me as somebody who's a patient who's going through treatment. But don't write me off. It was years ago that cancer was a death sentence. It's not. It's actually transitioning to something that's more of a chronic disease in many cases.

Now, certainly there are cancers that are quick, and they are death sentences. They are terminal. The continuum of cancer is immense, and we've got to solve it. And I'm so grateful for the moonshot activities. I think that's great. And there is a day in the future. It's coming, and it's coming faster than we can imagine how quick we're going to get to the point. Immunotherapy is part of that, I think, where the body will do what it needs to do. But changing the face of

cancer, what I want people to see is don't feel sorry for people that have cancer. They don't want that. Compassion towards them, yes. Care for them. Understanding and empathy, absolutely. And let them live their life, right? Give them the opportunity to let them live their life right give them the opportunity to enjoy and live their life now for some that might be short term because it's terminal and not much more can be done so they're going to determine how they want to live those last three months or whatever it might be but for others there's a lot of people that it's just going to be a chronic condition they might be able to treat it and they'll be done but i have a lot of friends who were treated and they've not had to do anything more,

and they've been cancer-free for 8, 10, 20 years. Others who are chronic, I'm probably in the chronic class at the moment, and may be there for the next 20 years of my life. I may have to go through chemo again and again if it keeps coming back. I might be the chronic case. Don't feel sorry for me.

It's an ailment that I'll have, a chronic condition that we can treat. Yeah, it looks more severe. It is a little bit more rugged than most things, but I don't think it'll go on because I think we'll have new treatments. I think that chemo is one of those things we're going to look back at in five years and say, we did what to the human being? Yeah, absolutely. Immunotherapies and things like that are going to come along. That's just my belief, but I want to change that face to the point of don't feel bad for people. Instead, have empathy towards them.

Feel good about the battle they're taking on. Embrace them in the courage that they're probably showing by being out, doing what they're doing. My doctors just assume probably I act a little bit more bubblish, maybe wear a mask from time to time when I'm in those nadir periods. It's not me. It's just not going to happen. But I am going to be smart. I'm not going to do things that subject myself. So, you know,

I wrote a blog to my membership that had at least 3,000 people read it. But it were things that I said to them is, look, you're going to see me go through a transformation. The guy you see on TV is not going to have hair. He might gain weight. I probably missed some events because they're going to be compact events with a lot of people and they might fall in my white blood cancer if there was. I can't afford to put myself in those situations. So my absence might be noticed. I apologize for that. But I got to protect myself too. So, but I'll be back and others will cover.

So I'm very upfront about that. I want you to know this is what's happening. Don't feel like, oh, he's at home not feeling well. No, he's protecting himself. That's different, right? Those are the faces I want to change, right? I want people to get access to support services. And I want people to get supportive to support services and I want people

to get supportive about what's the most rampant of diseases for us that we're dealing with. And many of them can be prevented or at least reduce their prevalence. Things like skin cancer. I mean, what are we telling kids, right? What are we telling them about sunscreen when they go out to play on the playground when they're six years old at break? Do they lather up? My wife spent some time in Australia years ago. No kid goes outside without a big giant rimmed hat on. They walk outside with a hat on because they're so deliberate about protecting themselves. So our consciousness about what are we doing that can help us. In my cancers, at least in kidney, a lot of it can be brought upon by choices we make in life. That long list of choices of what

can bring on kidney cancer, I don't hit any of them, and yet I had kidney cancer. But none of those conditions that they say will bring it on, none of them, not overweight, nothing. But I still got it. So environment can influence, but there's an awful lot of cancers that there's something in your genes, something that's going to, cells go bad. It just happens. DNA mutates. I mean, that's what it is, and that's going to, cells go bad. It just happens.

DNA mutates. I mean, that's what it is, and we've got to figure it out. You know, one of the things, Jonathan, we believe here at the High Performance Mindset is the importance of keeping your why front and center. So tell us why you do what you do. I know that my personal mission statement that I wrote a good eight to ten years ago essentially says that I'm here to work in communities in a way that will help make, and I said it before, will help make the life of that community and the people who are part of that community better. Period. That's my personal mission statement. Now, the canvas on which I do that is really irrelevant. For me, what it's been in life are community-based organizations.

I mentioned before Boy Scouts United Way, then business organizations. For a time, I even had my own consulting firm and still do some consulting on the side in terms of strategic planning, organization and development. Just a little bit here and there. I like to practice the craft. I do it here all the time, but it's good for me to get outside of here in this organization and practice it with somebody paying me a little bit of money. It just keeps me even sharper, and I bring those skills back. My board is willing to let me do that because they see value it brings back as well.

So the platform, whether it's this or you name it, doesn't matter. As long as I'm having the opportunity to change the lives of people and communities that are a part of for a better tomorrow then i fulfill that's that's my why and so getting up right that's why letting me continue to live during cancer to do what i do today is so important because that's my why i have to feel like I'm helping in a positive way to help this community move forward for a better tomorrow. This is a great community. It's an exciting community, and it's an excited community all at the same time.

I can't help to want to be a part of that, but to help in a small way, move that ball, move that needle, that is my call. That's why I'm here, and I haven't been redirected to do anything else so i can't lose that if i lose that then the only thing i have to live for is to somehow beat cancer what that's that's not a call that's nothing right and that's just outlasting a malady there's no purpose in that that's just okay i got that trophy no this life is about something else it's about me helping this community be better tomorrow and the people in it.

So that's my why. And helping serve the community so it can be a better place. And then in a micro way, what's my role here with my team? How do I help them do that? And so I have that responsibility every day. But our team is a small group here

and then thousands of people externally. We have almost 1,000 business members. So how do we help them? And that's all my why. Absolutely. So Jonathan, let help them? And that's all my why. Absolutely. So Jonathan, let's start wrapping up the interview. And one question I have to wrap up is you have in front of you

the top 10 traits of high performers. And what I'd love to hear is which of these traits do you feel like, oh man, yep, that's totally me. Is there one of those traits that you think that you really exemplify? Well, I think that there's a couple of them, actually. The gritty one, I never think about it, but I'm a gamer, right? I mean, let me get in there and I fight hard and

they dominate the moment. More and more, I live in the moment. I want to be in that moment and take control of it. And these couple that both have to do with empowering emotion and patterns of thinking are just, there's an innateness to that for me that I'm constantly, I'm constantly changing my context. It's the glass is half full. How do you, what are you? And how do you keep on doing that? And I'm half full but moving towards full all the time. And so that's just the way I'm wired. Yeah.

And so those are the ones that jump for me very, and you know, the purpose of work, the why. There's so many on here that are yeah that's me but there are some yep and you know the one thing that i thought actually uh that you would say was that they consciously practice authenticity because i don't think i'm conscious about it okay i'm not i'm who you are yeah i'm unconsciously authentic right i don't know how to be more than one version of myself i'm not that smart i i can't walk down the street or be in my work environment and be one person and then not be in the work environment. I am not that capable cognitively. I can't remember what I taught.

I've got to be honest, straightforward all the time. What's the point? Otherwise, a lie has a deadline. Forget it. I'm one version. It's all I'm capable of. What you see is what you get. The cancer experience certainly has brought out the authenticity I'm aware of on my sleeve.

So I'm not conscious about it. You're not conscious about it. I'm unconscious about it. It's just who I am. I am authentic. The one I struggle with is they control the controllables. I try to control the uncontrollables. I try to.

And the uncontrollables are the cancer. And when Ginger said to me a week ago, you know, you so desperately want to tame cancer to fit your lifestyle. I can't do that. That's where this adaptation viewpoint is coming from. I can't control it. I can't tame it. It's going to be what it's going to be. I need to figure out how to adjust and adapt to it and fit so that I can survive through it because that's going to be the survival mechanism,

adapt to it. So I know when it's going to hit. I'm prepared for it. Let it be. Schedule our calendars differently so those are light weeks. Okay, we can do that. That's adaptation, right? So that's me learning how to control the controllables and control the eligibility. Now, bringing that to work gets harder because I want to control a lot of things, but I have to learn. And you know what? Over the years, 25 some years being at the helm of an organization and realizing that my success, it's not about my success I will be successful in what I'm asked to do when I help all of those around me who are part of that common goal and vision we have be successful and and achieve even beyond what they thought they could

achieve letting others it's hard it's hard for leaders to put their success their future employability in the hands of a bunch of other people. Because at the end of the day, if all the folks that work on our team fail to deliver on their end, I'm the guy that's got to answer for that and I'm the guy that has to go packing. So that's hard for leaders to do that. I feel really fortunate that over the years something has happened that's allowed me to gracefully flow to that point of where I'm very comfortable allowing people to be empowered with their charge and recognizing that I'm responsible for their outcome, not to do their work. To create a medium in which they can be successful, be there to offer the help that they might need and give it when they can identify how

I can be helpful, remove a barrier, whatever it might be, to inspire them. I can't motivate them. I can inspire them. Make sure they're headed towards the right path. Give them the autonomy and the empowerment that I mentioned earlier. Trust them, right? And know that they're not out to try to fail or to make me or the organization look bad. That's the last thing they want. Absolutely. When you get to that point that you realize, no, they want to be successful, and that success means that we all win, well, then it gets a lot easier to lead in more of a distant way of not controlling, right?

That is so hard for leaders to do, to let go. And that's part of that control, the controllables. Absolutely, because you can't control others. No, not at all. And you can't motivate them. All you can do is inspire, give them a medium in which they can be successful. And if they're not, then I point that back at me first and say, what am I not doing? And if I think I'm doing the right things, then I need to ask them, right? How am I not helping here? And if it's not that, then I finally might get to them and say, well, what are we doing, right? I mean, where are you at in this? And maybe it's

just not aligned. And you just had to go through that, right? Where they just have the wrong people on the bus and they got to help them get on the right bus. Those are never easy times. You know, I've had to make great hires and I make a lot of them. It's one of my, one of the things I'm gifted with, I think, is the ability to find good people, get them into our organization, and help me successful. That doesn't mean it's always perfect, and sometimes those lines don't happen, and I've had to let more than one or two good people go that are just not lined up here.

And I've watched them flourish in other places, and I'm so proud of them. But I know that it was hard. That departure from here was hard on me. It was hard on them. For some of them, they're not really was hard that departure from me was hard on me it was hard on them and for some of them they don't they're not really appreciative of that even years later although some of them I got a note from a lady one day 20 years later who said that you know she was bitter for a long time and now she realizes just what kind of a person I was and how I led and she's so thankful for what I did even though it was hard well that's incredible yeah and so you know you get that but you just you don't get that. I mean, there

are people that I know are still bitter and they're angry because it didn't work out here and they just don't feel good about it. Most of the people that leave us here are because they have greater opportunities. Absolutely. And that's what I want to have happen. We have very few that leave here that something didn't

work out. And that's nice. You don't want that very often. I want people to leave because they have greater opportunities. And we've been able to do that. So, Jonathan, there are so many things that you provided today. I think the thing that stands out to me most is just having a gratitude or a grateful perspective for difficulties and making inspiration a choice and just choosing to see difficulties in a really um an inspired and positive way so um what final advice do you have for high performers who are listening and

what i really mean by high performers is kind of what you said earlier in the interview just being the best version of yourself and working every day to reach your greater potential and the standard of excellence embrace the opportunity i mean if i of vaccine. Embrace the opportunity. I mean, if I sum it all up, right, embrace the opportunity. The opportunity in front of you might be one that is difficult and is scary, but embrace it. It's as I said to the one friend of mine, embrace what this disease is bringing to you and allow yourself to be open to the blessings that will pour upon you

that you would have never experienced without it. It opened a portal for you, opens a door. So embrace the opportunity. Sometimes opportunities look grand, right? And they look pretty exciting. Well, embrace them, right? But some of them aren't so much. Embrace them. They're an opportunity for you to correct something, perhaps. If it's a difficult conversation, embrace it. You can fix that so that that thing that irritated you now might never happen again. And you'll have helped that situation be better the next time. And you can help bring something to it. So embrace the opportunity, whatever it is. But notice that that word embrace the opportunity demands you have to engage, right? That second

thing, you have to get in the game. See how it all wraps back together. You have to get in the game see how it all wraps back together You have to get in the game. You can't sit back and go man. I wish they wouldn't do that Okay, that was Monday morning quarterbacking pick up the phone call right go see him say I wish you want to done that I think there's a better way you can accomplish the same thing. Here's what I think you should tell me Why you're not approaching it that way and be good about that. I'm not as good at that, the interrogative conversation, because I tend to have a clear path. I tend to have this vision and I think I know, but what I work on these days, especially when I'm in a disagreement with somebody, is how to get to more questions. Is it possible we could do this? Would this be a way to think about it? My natural tendency, because I've been in a leadership role so long, long right is to just guide

you know be more direct we're going to do this i'm learning how to do that better and better and practicing it every day because it's not my natural tendency but i want it to be because i know that it'll bring out the better in everybody else around me i don't need to be the one whose eyes hitting the home runs i need to be the coach that says, well, have you thought about changing your stance? Right? Maybe you'll contact the ball a little bit. I don't know. So, you know, I got a couple of those. I just cropped up yesterday that are on my list to make a phone call to a person and say, hey, this caught my attention. Did we have to do it that way? Sure. Absolutely. Because this is what it does. In my opinion, what if we did it this way? And we thought that see where it takes me and it might not change but it'll open the dialogue and that's being

authentic and that's being authentic so embrace embrace the opportunity embrace the opportunity you get it it gives you a chance to experience something you and look life's about emotions how do you know if you're alive unless you experience emotions good bad thrills whatever they are so i love emotion right because it tells me i'm fully alive which by the way um there's one of the things that i would um that i learned um in this cancer journey um and it'll be on a plaque very soon next to a bell that ginger and i um donated a year ago to the andreas cancer center the cancer survivor bell um they wanted a plaque so we came up with this original poem with the words, there's only two words that rhyme. But the statement is really this, it's not what you

are that matters, and you could put in parentheses anything from a title to cancer survivor, in this case, cancer survivor will be in parentheses, it's not what you are that matters, but how you are. And in this case, on that particular plaque, the parentheses are not what you are that matters but how you are and in this case on that particular plaque the parentheses are not what you are a cancer survivor but how you are fully alive awesome amazing that's what's written there was inspired by my silent retreat to the Montreal for three days that I go to it I'm not Catholic but but I'm Christian and so they still let me in and it's a three-day silent retreat and it was inspired from that event. There's that opening line about the bell and why you ring the bell

is you strive and that's the word that rhymes with alive later, right? But I think that applies beyond cancer. It's not what you are, president and CEO, runner, marathoner, whatever it might be. It's not what you are that matters. It's how you are. So as a president and CEO, how are you? Are you compassionate? Are you inspiring? Or are you a dictator, right? Do you lead through fear, right? I mean, no, that's not how I want to be. So I think you can take that statement and you can apply it to anything.

It's not what you are. It's how you are that matters. You know, Jonathan, and that is a perfect way to end this interview because that is the reason that I wanted to have you on the podcast is because of who you are. Oh, thank you. And, you know, just how I see you interact with other people, your authentic nature, your positive nature, and just how your energy is contagious. I remember one day when I was at the TV station and you just walked by and it was like this positive energy everywhere. The aura. Positive aura. the TV station and you just walked by and it was like this positive energy anywhere. So I know people want to reach out to you.

What's the best way for people to connect with you, follow your journey, your cancer journey? Well, there's a couple of ways. Number one, first of all, I am on CaringBridge and all you have to do is type in Jonathan Ziert, J-O-N-A-T-H-N-Z-I-E-R-D-T.

Type it in, log into CaringBridge and you can follow the cancer journey you can also always get in touch with me and follow what we do here at Greater Mankato Grove, my email's on the website, jzeert at greatermankato.com, so I'm easily accessible through there as well, and you can see everything we're doing here at Greater Mankato through there

so those are probably the two portals, I'm not a big Facebook guy, I do tweet which is at Jonathan Zeert so I do tweet and I pay attention to that, but I can't keep up beyond one social media. So that's my only social media tweet or Twitter, but I don't do the rest. I do have a

Facebook thing out there and the only time I ever go to it is if I get a notification that somebody just tagged me and I go to look to see what they're saying and what's happening. Make sure it's all good, but I don't troll the sites. I don't go through. It's just, I have a page and it's pretty much quiet.

I haven't done anything for a year and a half. And one thing that I was just thinking about is you were talking earlier about Jay-Z Strong. You could hashtag that, but we'd love to hear what you thought about this interview. You can reach out to Jonathan on Twitter. Jonathan Ziertz is his handle, Minds Mentally Underscore Strong. And if you'd like to get the top 10 traits of high performers, you can go on my website. Which is great, by the way. Thank you.

Just finished my book on that. Congratulations. I can't wait to read it. It's going to be awesome. But you can go on my website, DrCindra.com. And then there is going to be a podcast link that you can make some comments on from the interview. So if you go to...

Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset. If you like today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend, and join the conversation on Twitter at Mentally Underscore Strong. For more inspiration and to receive Sindra's free weekly videos, check out DrSindra.com. Awesome. Awesome.