High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 612: Talking on Eggshells: Soft Skills for Hard Conversations with Sam Horn, 10-Time Bestselling Author, Keynote Speaker and CEO of the Intrigue Agency

Episode Date: April 23, 2024

As Founder/CEO of the Intrigue Agency, and the Tongue Fu! Training Institute, Sam helps people create respectful, intriguing, proactive communications that are a win for all involved.  Sam's 3 TEDx talks and 10 books - including Tongue Fu!, POP!, Talking on Eggshells, SOMEDAY is Not a Day in the Week - have been featured in NY Times, Fast Company, Forbes, Readers Digest, TED.com, NPR.  Sam's IKIGAI - and one of her great joys - is helping people crystallize a meaningful message/mission that puts the light on in their eyes and creates a rising-tide LEGACY that adds value for all involved. In this episode, Cindra and Sam discuss:  “Words to Lose, and Word to Use”   Her AIR acronym  What to do when you disagree with someone Tools to deescalate a situation And, why her PLAN tool can help you prepare for any conversation HIGH PERFORMANCE MINDSET SHOWNOTES FOR THIS EPISODE LEARN MORE ABOUT SAM   FOLLOW SIGN UP FOR THE FREE MENTAL BREAKTHROUGH CALL WITH CINDRA’S TEAM TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE MENTALLY STRONG INSTITUTE Love the show? Rate and review the show for Cindra to mention you on the next episode.    

Hi, this is your host, Dr. Sindhra Kampoff, the founder of the Mentally Strong Institute, where we help purpose-driven leaders and athletes play big and achieve their most audacious goals. If you want to achieve your goals quicker, up-level your confidence, and increase your influence, I invite you to sign up for a free coaching call with one of my team members at freementalbreakthroughcall.com. We will help you create a breakthrough, a moment of more clarity and understanding, and help you practice the high performance mindset. Again, that's freementalbreakthroughcall.com to sign up for your free mental breakthrough call. Today on the podcast, I have a special guest named Sam Horn. She is the founder and CEO of

Intrigue Agency and the Tongue Food Training Institute. And Sam helps people create respectful, intriguing, and proactive communications that are a win for all involved. I heard her a couple of months ago speak at the Genius Network and about two years ago at the National Speakers Association meeting and was blown away. And so I was so excited to have her on the podcast today. She has three TEDx talks and 10 best-selling books, including the books named Tang Fu, Pop, Talking on Eggshells, and Someday is Not a Day in the Week. And in this episode, Sam and I talk about words that you should lose and words that you should use, her air acronym and why it's so important for you, what to do when you disagree

with someone, tools to deescalate a situation, and why her plan tool can help you prepare for any conversation. To see the full show notes and description of this podcast, you can head over to cindracampoff.com slash 612 for episode 612. Without further ado, let's bring on the amazing Sam Horn. Sam Horn, thank you so much for being on the High Performance Mindset podcast. I'm so excited to talk to you today. I first heard you speak at the National Speakers Association in Denver many years ago. I was blown away and then recently heard you again at the Genius Network. And by the way, I have three of your books here, your newest book, Talking on Eggshells. I got Pop, this one about create the perfect pitch title and tagline for anything and then got your

attention so i have i have three of the uh three of them and i'm just so excited to welcome you and have you here today thank you for joining us you know i've really been looking forward to sharing some stories and ideas with your community so i'm ready to rock and roll if you are okay perfect well i want to start with your Aikigai. And, you know, I know one of your greatest joys is helping people really crystallize a meaningful message and mission that puts the light on in their eyes and creates a legacy for them. So tell us about how you discovered that.

You know, I'll always be grateful. I think you may know that I helped start and run the Maui Writers Conference for 17 years. Writers Digest said it was the best writers conference in the world. And at our first session, we gave people an opportunity to jump the chain of command. I mean, imagine pitching your screenplay to Ron Howard. I mean, pitching your book to the head of Simon & Schuster. However, at the end of the pitch sessions, a woman walked out with tears in her eyes. And I went over, I said, are you okay? And she said, I'm not okay. I just saw my dream go down the drain. And I asked her, what happened? And she said, I put my 300-page manuscript down on the table. The agent took one look at it, said, I don't have time to read all that. Tell me in 60 seconds what your book is about and why someone would want to read it. And she said, my mind went blank. I thought my job was to write it. I thought it was their job to sell it. And later that night, I talked with Bob Loomis, who was a senior VP at Random House. And he said, Sam, we've seen

thousands of proposals. We make up our mind in 60 seconds whether something is commercially viable. And that next day, I sat in the back of the pitch sessions, and I could predict who was getting a deal without hearing a word being said based on one thing. You know what it was? I'm going to guess their confidence, but I don't know if that's true. It's very tangible. It's their eyebrows. It's like the decision. See, if we're trying to describe, you know, why we'd be the right person for this job, why to buy our product, you know, what this project is about, and people's eyebrows are crunched up, it means they don't get it. And confused people don't say yes. Now, if their eyebrows are unmoved, it means they're unmoved or they've had Botox.

And if the eyebrows are up, it means they're intrigued, they're curious. And so that's why I started the Intrigue Agency. It's what do we care about and how can we communicate it in a way those eyebrows go up and other people care about it too. I love it. And there's so many questions I could ask you about today. First, I want to start with something that I heard you talk about at Genius Network. And by the way, I've listened to your presentation three times because it's been recorded.

And what I was most blown away with was your ability to communicate and just communicate in a sticky way. And you talked with us about this idea of making what we say repeatable and rhyme and the importance of original content. That's what really stuck with me. And I work to do that, but I think I can keep on growing in that area. And I'm curious just to maybe to get us started. Tell us a little bit about why that's important and how do we do that more often? Well, you are right. It's back at the Maui Writers Conference, Gary Marshall, who is the director of the movie Pretty Woman. He said something so profound. I remember it as

if he said it this morning. He said, Hollywood directors can predict when their movies will make money based on one thing. Do people walk out of the theater repeating something they heard word for word? Because if so, they become a brand ambassador for you, right? It's like people say, seen any good movies? They're talking about your movie, make my day, I'll be back. And so if people would like, unless they're driving, grab paper and pen real quick and just write down AIR. And if we have time, I'll actually give you a framework to create your own phrase that pays or hook, line, and thinkers or repeatable, retweetable rally cries. So you're the one people remember, you're the one they follow up with. Sound good? Perfect. Well, I think we should dive into that.

Tell us about AIR and why that's important. And I'm also thinking about, you know, there's leaders who listen, maybe business leaders, entrepreneurs, they need to have clients, they need to have followers, even someone like me, right, who's working to communicate and share ideas. But tell us about the AIR concept. Okay. And now thank you for reminding me about your audience. So see, if you're walking into a meeting and you're proposing an idea, at the end of that, if people cannot repeat anything you said, it's out of sight, out of mind. If you're writing a social media post or a blog or speaking at a convention, you know, or interviewing for a job, at the end of the communication, as you just said, if they cannot

repeat something that you said word for word, all that time and investment is now, you're just one of many. You know, you're not going to be the one to pop out. So these airtight sound bites can be used in all of your communication and they really are, to use your word, what makes you stick instead of like, what did they say? I can't remember. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm ready. Okay. A is for alliteration. Now, just listen to these words, bed, toilet, and shower, dunk and croissants, best clunky, right? No, alliteration are words that start with the same sound.

They make us instantly eloquent. They make our language lyrical. Bed, bath, and beyond. Dirt, devil. Rolls Royce. Best buy. So when you look at what you're writing or what you're titling your blog or even what you're going to title your presentation at the Rotary Club or

something like that, use some alliteration and it's going to make that title pop out of the pack. So now you want to know the second one? Yes. Okay. I is iambic meter. When you put it in a beat, you make it easy to repeat. I can't believe I ate the whole thing. Takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Those slogans are 50 years old, and yet some people can still, they're on the tip of our tongue, top of our mind. And now if people are thinking, ah, okay, it's wordplay. No, it's word profits. The Las Vegas Convention Bureau says that what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. The rhythm of that has driven $1 billion into the economy of that city. So see, when you're looking at the word music that you're creating, ask yourself this question.

At the end of this communication, what is the action I want people to take? What is the change I want them to make? Put it in one sentence and then start with alliteration. Can you make synonyms there? Can you put it in a beat so it's easy to repeat? And now for the third one. Ready for R? I'm ready for R. Okay. Rhyme is sublime because it's remembered over time.

Now, once again, some people may think, well, Sam, I'm not a wordsmith. I mean, come on. I'm just talking to my boss about can we get funding for this project or something. You know, this doesn't apply to me. Oh, yeah, it does. Quick example. The U.S. government was concerned about injuries and fatalities in car accidents. So they actually spent millions of dollars on a nationwide public service campaign, buckle up for safety. Nothing happened because it's clunky, right duke ellingson said it don't mean a thing

if it ain't got that swing so they went back to the drawing board and now what did they come up with this time or ticket guess what compliance went up injuries and fatalities went down. They saved lives by turning the change they wanted people to make and the action they wanted to take in one succinct sentence with rhyme that actually saved lives. That's the importance of this. Yeah. And that's what I appreciate, that there's so many applicability to, you know, so many ways we can really apply what you're saying. And if people want to learn more about this, this is in your book, Pop, Create the Perfect Pitch Title and Tagline for Anything. And this is actually the section I have highlighted that I keep on coming back to. It is section four, where, you know, you encourage us to make the language lyrical with alliteration, put it in a slogan

that's easy to repeat and make it sublime with a rhyme. Yeah. And so I also, Sam, have a little bit of maybe my own inner blocks. And I think to myself, well, I'm not really great at this type of thing. And I think that limits me. What would you say to those people who are listening and say, well, yeah, that's easy for Sam, but maybe that's not my Aikigai. That's not really what I'm great at. I'm really glad that you brought that up is that that's why in all of my books and my programs, I have examples to show why this is effective. And then I have step-by-step. Here's how you do it. So let's, for everyone listening,

shall we have a few steps on how you can do this for yourself? Perfect. Okay, go to your website, or if you work for a company, go to the company's website. And now what you're looking for are like your 20 core words.

These are words that you frequently use to describe your company or the service that you sell or the product that you want people to buy. So these are like your keywords, your SEO words, and pull out those 20 words. I call that your word bank. And now we're going to leverage your word bank so that you can have word process. And in addition to what we just talked about is that, okay, whatever the communication is, and shall we do that for you? What is something you've got coming up? We're going to do this in real time for you to show how this done. So what's a priority you've got coming up? I have a new book on confidence that I'm writing. Yay. All right.

Now what's the working title of it? The working title is Confidence, Seven Secrets Elite Performers Use to Win. Okay. So you've got the secrets and you've got the, okay, so seven secrets, alliteration right there. You've got a number, which is in a title of a book. It makes it actionable because if we just say how to do it, see how that a number, which is in a title of a book, it makes it actionable. Because if we just say how to do it, see how that's vague, et cetera. It's like, eh, you know, I don't know if

that's tangible. As soon as we say seven, they know that it's tangible, actionable. Furthermore, my high school debate coach used to say, our expertise is perceived by the organization of our thoughts. And once again, whether it's at a meeting or presentation, when we say, here are three things to consider, here are three questions to ask yourself next time that happens, here are three words never to use, do you feel the preciseness of the number helps you feel you're going to get bottom line, actionable, real world value, right? Absolutely. So seven secrets. What was the rest of it now?

Seven secrets that elite performers use to win. That's what a working title is right now. Mm-hmm. Okay. Now, I have an agreement with everyone I work with, is that if I say something, if it resonates with you, you're welcome to run with it. If it's in alignment with your vision, voice, and values, alliteration, go ahead and run with it. If I say something you don't agree with, it's not in alignment with your goals or priorities, just interrupt me and we'll tweak it or toss it. More alliteration, right? Tweak it or toss it. Okay. Now let's go to the word elite because elite sometimes smack of elitism, right? Now,

I know there are elite athletes and you're talking about elite leaders. Why have you selected that word elite, please? Because my background is working with high performers, like professional athletes. And now I still work with them and also work with other elite performers, like in business. But it's really, yeah, that's all I'll say. Well, let's go there for a second. You know, I believe in juxtaposition. And if people are listening right now, please get some paper ink it when you think it jot these thoughts when they're hot muse it so you don't lose it because then next time you're

trying to come up with a title for a book or a blog or an article or presentation or a project you can use these tips so right now put a vertical line down the center of your notes. All right. Now, how do you define elite, please? The best of the best. All right. The best of the best. So, let's put elite at the top of the column, the best of the best, right? So, over on the left, you've worked with elite athletes, correct? Yes. Over on the right, now you're working with elite leaders or elite performers, correct? Yes. Over on the right, now you're working with elite leaders or elite performers, correct? Yes. Okay. Now, are you on the left, have you identified like the seven secrets to being an elite athlete? And now you're helping people become elite performers, elite leaders, using those seven secrets as your stories about your athletes and how they work in the work world with leaders? Yep. That's what I would say. All right. Good. Now, have you crowdsourced

people's reaction to the word elite? I haven't, but I could. Here's what I'm going to do. Perfect. I'm going to recommend you get ahead of the pushback. And now this is for everybody on the call. It's because if we are using a word that has some baggage to it, we better get ahead of it and include it in our story by saying something like, you may be thinking, not I know you're thinking because that's presumptuous, But you may be thinking elite, it doesn't that smack of elitism or, you know, elite is, you know, superiority or something like that. So if you research this and find, I would find out people's knee-jerk association with the word elite. And even if it's negative, you can embrace that by saying, I am so glad that we're discussing this knee-jerk association we have with this word. So let's look at that again, right?

And then use precedence where in sports, an elite athlete often means rankings, like they're in the top 10 or they are world world class because they have world titles. However, here's an opportunity instead of just the best of the best. Elite maybe means you put in your 10,000 hours. Elite maybe means that you have credentials to prove that you have the education and experience so people can trust you. To me, if we're going to hang our hat on the word elite, we need to open people's eyes to an interpretation of it, where they want it, where they value it, where there's nothing negative associated with it, where they see it with fresh eyes and they're proud of wanting to be considered that or regarded as that.

Your thoughts about that? Well, what I appreciate is your honesty and your openness. And I'm thinking about how words matter. Words matter in our business and words matter in our lives, right? And the importance of being something that can be repeatable is key. One of the things I really enjoyed about your work at Genius Network and the ideas you shared with us is you had words to lose and words to use. And I think about just the importance of those words. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? We can certainly go back to my title and things like that, but

it's making me think about the importance of words and how we should use them. Lovely segue, but wonderful. So yes, is that words matter. So once again, on a piece of paper is let's put some words on the left that actually cause resistance and resentment. Because once again, and now I know you have wrapped a career around elite. And so as long as we make a case for it, and we make sure it's over on the right, and that is creating receptivity instead of resistance, it is creating rapport and respect instead of resentment. So that's our goal. Here are some words over on the left. The very first one is the word but. Well, I hear what you're saying, but we tried that before and it didn't work out.

You did a good job on that but. Do you hear how the word but cancels out what was said before? It makes it an either or right conversation. Over on the right, put the word and. I hear what you're saying, and we tried that before and it didn't work out. And do you have any ideas on how we can do it differently? You did a good job. And could you please add a paragraph?

Do you see how the word and actually makes both people right? Instead of canceling out, which is part of the canceling culture, it puts us on the same side instead of side against side, right? Right. Okay. Let's put the word should over on the left. Well, you should have called if you were going to be late. Well, you should have asked Harry. He's the one who knows how to do this. Well, you should have left the computer on. Now you've crashed our system. The word should shames. And when people make a mistake, we often tell them what they should have done over on the right put the words next time from now on in the future from now on if that happens please leave the computer on in next time you have a question please ask harry now do you see

over on the right we're being a coach instead of a critic we're shaping behavior instead of shaming it. People are learning instead of losing face. So that's an example of how we think about the unintended impact of a word. Is there a better word that could help instead of hurt? And if we use these words on the right, we often can prevent conflicts and produce cooperation. Yeah, those are powerful. I'm thinking about just different ways I can apply this as a parent. Teachers, coaches can apply this, leaders, right, when you're giving feedback. So using and instead of but, next time instead of should have, what are some of the other words to lose and words that really you want to use instead? You're so right about how whether

this is the workplace or I know you work with mental performance and top performance, peak performance, elite leaders and elite athletes, et cetera. So over on the left, put the words can't because. People will often say, hey, can I go ahead and start this meeting? Well, no, we can't because we don't have a quorum yet. Can I go ahead and talk with Bob? Oh, you can't. He's on vacation this week. And often those words can't because are like a verbal door slamming in someone's face. Over on the right, put the words can as soon as. Yes, you can talk with Bob as soon as he's back from vacation. You want to leave a message, you want to call back on Monday. It's like, and you brought up about being a parent. One of my favorite examples, there was a woman in one of my workshops and she put her hand up and she said

I'm a single mom she said this is going to change the way I parent because I've got three kids under the age of 10 seems like all I ever do is tell them what they can't do mom can I play with my friends no you can't because you haven't done your homework

mom can I watch TV no you can't because you haven't done your chores. Mom, can I watch TV? No, you can't because you haven't done your chores. And then we often do what's called stacking. You know the rules around here. That TV doesn't go on and tell those chores. How many times do I have to tell you? When are you going to start listening to me? And off we go. Over on the right, and she was one who said, Sam, this changes the whole dynamics of the relationship. Because they say, can I play with my friends? And I say, sure you can, as soon as you finish your homework. Can I watch TV? Yes, you can, right after you do your chores, take out the trash, clean up your room. Then you can look who's in charge of getting what it is they want, instead of seeing us as blocking them getting what it is they want instead of seeing us as blocking them from what

it is they want. Yeah, that's so powerful. And I think so more supportive, right? As soon as I can, if you could, instead of you'll have to next time instead of should have. Hi, this is Cyndra Campoff. and thanks for listening to the High Performance Mindset. Did you know that the ideas we share in the show are things we actually specialize in implementing? If you want to become mentally stronger, lead your team more effectively and get to your goals quicker, visit freementalbreakthroughcall.com to sign up for your free mental breakthrough call with one of our certified coaches. Again, that's freementalbreakthroughcall.com to sign up for your free call. Talk to you soon.

As I'm listening to you, Sam, one of the things that I have been so impressed with in your work, but also when I hear you speak, and even today as we're talking, is your just ability to rhyme and to put words with each other. I know you were kind of telling us how we could do that by starting with our list of core words, but tell us, you know, how do you do that? Well, I'll give you a quick example. It is years ago, Dr. Ray Oshiro out of University of Hawaii asked me to do a course on conflict resolution. Now, I know that some of your people speak or train or have courses or do YouTube videos,

et cetera. So do you see, that's a vanilla word. That's a ubiquitous word, conflict resolution. I would have been one of many instead of one of a kind because, you know, there's a lot of people doing that. So I'm competing with all these other people speaking and writing about the same thing. For everyone watching, we do not want to be one of many. We want to be one of a kind. So if we have a title of whatever it is that we're speaking on, writing about,

filming, posting about, et cetera, we're getting lost in the crowd so we want to stand out of the crowd so I changed the title of the course to dealing with difficult people without becoming one yourself now listen it's we put it in a beat to make it easy to repeat dealing with difficult people you know it's not dealing with challenging people. Look, nothing, no alliteration, dealing with difficult people without becoming one yourself. Now, it gets better. You asked how I do this. That's a good title. However, it's still not a one-of-a-kind title.

I was very fortunate because at the first break, there was a gentleman in the front row. He didn't get up to get a cup of coffee or get outside for some pressure. He just sat there gazing off into space. I'm curious. I went over and said, what are you thinking about? He said, Sam, I'm a real estate broker. He said, I took this course because I thought you were going to teach us some zingers to fire back at people and put them in their place. He said, that's not what this is about, is it? I agreed. And he was the one who said, I'm a student of martial arts. He said, I studied karate, taekwondo, judo. He said, what you're talking about is almost like a verbal form of kung fu, isn't it?

Now, in pot, there is a process called alphabetizing. If you run Kung Fu through the alphabet, Ung Fu, Bun Fu, Sun Fu, Dun Fu, Yun Fu, Sun Fu, Un Fu, you eventually get to Tung Fu, Eureka. That is a one-of-a-kind word. You can trademark that word. You can merchandise and monetize that word. You can build a whole global enterprise around that word because it's a first-of-its-kind word. You can merchandise and monetize that word. You can build a whole global enterprise around that word because it's a first of its kind word. So if people are thinking,

okay, how can I do that? Go back to your 20 core words. Run them through the alphabet. When he said Kung Fu, I went Tong Fu. Fun Fu, Sun Fu, oh, Fun Fu, how to handle hassles with humor. Oh, Gung Ho Tong Fu for people who are really into it. Run-fu for when tung-fu doesn't work. Tong-su for lawyers. Young-fu for kids. You see, you take one core word, you run it through the alphabet, and you can come up with first of their kind words that pop you out of the pack and make you one of a kind

instead of one of many. Thank you. Thanks for giving us a little bit of a kind instead of one of many. Thank you. Thanks for giving us a little bit more details on how we can do that. You mentioned just this idea of conflict resolution, right? And that's when you, that you were, if you just named it that, then you wouldn't stand out. And your newest book, Talking on Eggshells, Soft Skills for Hard Conversations, really is about that.

And I loved so many of the different tools. Again, all of your books are really easy to understand and read and really practical. I'm curious, what made you write that book, Talking on Eggshells? Why, you know, what to say when every second counts? Well, first, thank you for that. I was really so grateful when John Mackey, who is the founder of Whole Foods, calls it the course correct for today's cancel culture. And so once again, let's juxtapose this. Let's put cancel over on the left. Let's put cooperate on the right. I know people who are no longer talking to family members because they have different political views. I know people who are no longer talking with good friends because they have different views on vaccinations or abortion or our rights, et cetera. And I thought, do we really have to ruin or run away from relationships because we don't know how to diplomatically and proactively discuss differences. So would you like one of my favorite examples from talking on eggshells about

how even when we have different points of view, even when we think someone is wrong and we're right, how can we navigate that so that we continue to have relationships with people even if we think they're rude or wrong sound good yes absolutely and i think there's so many ways that we can apply what you're going to tell us so go for it right so so you know me i like to and for everyone who does speak or write i really believe you start with a story because that's what's interesting. That's what's real world. That's what's organic and true. It's not made up and it's not infobesity. And then you reverse engineer it and unpack it. All right, what was the epiphany? All right, how can we do that? How can we have numbered steps how to do that? How can we do what not to do and

what to do? So do you see, this is at the core of developing IP, intellectual property. What I do is I help people figure out what is your lesson learned that you want to share. Do not be content to be common. Figure out the stories that show this in the real world. Pull out the epiphanies and then put them in a replicable process. So here's a quick example of that. My Aunt Kay is 80 years old. She still volunteers at a hospital five days a week. She did this even during COVID. And when I was writing the Talking on Eggshells book, I asked her about stressful situations. I said, put me in the scene of a situation where someone was like yelling at you for something that wasn't your fault. She didn't even have to think about it. She told me the story about a woman ran in through the

emergency room doors, holding up her phone and saying, my daughter's in the ER. She just texted me. I need to see her. Well, Kay called the ER. There was somebody already with the daughter. And now you may remember the rules during COVID is like only one visitor per patient or no visitors. She had to tell the mother that someone was with the daughter already. She couldn't get in to see her. The woman understandably lost it. She said, what do you mean I can't? And she's yelling at Aunt Kay. Now Kay could have thought, why are you blaming me? It's not my fault. Don't blame me. I didn't make the rules. Over on the left, please put resentment, you know, and please put how rude, right?

Instead, Kay asked herself these four words. You ready? Instead of how rude, do you know what she asked herself? What's going on? What's going on with the person? That's what I think about. But what were the three? Those are more than three words.

Well, that's good. Now let's craft this in the moment. See, those are good words. However, if how rude is over on the left, over on the right, we want to mimic that and match it so it pops. So put, how would I feel? Instead of how rude, how would I feel? Instead of, oh, rude, how would I feel? And what if it was my daughter?

And over on the left, put contempt. Over on the right, put compassion. Over on the left, put anger. Over on the right, put empathy. And Kay called the ER back. And she said, who is with the daughter? It was the Uber driver who had brought the young woman in. Kay was able to explain the situation to him, thank him, he left, and the mother was able

to be with the daughter. Now, see, do you see how people are yelling at us, it's not our fault. We can have contempt, or we can have compassion. We can think how rude or we can think how would I feel? And it all often moves us from anger to empathy and to helping instead of hurting and making things better instead of worse. That's so helpful because I think now, I think the negativity is continuing to grow. So it's really easy to take what people do personally. And I try to think about, well, people don't do things because of me, right? It's because of something going on with them. So I love the how could I feel and

compassion. In the book, Talking on Eggshells, one of the things I really appreciate from your book is your plan concept that I thought could be really helpful for the listeners. Tell us about that concept and why it'd be helpful for us. Well, thank you. And now once again, let's do a story, a real life story to show how this works, the shift it can make. We want to show the shift in a story and then once again, reverse engineer it so other people can apply it. So here's the story. I was working with the learning channel of Cisco. This is the top 435 executives in Cisco. And one of them called me on a Wednesday and was getting ready for his all hands meeting on Friday. And so he showed me his PowerPoint slides. Now, here are the two things we changed that changed it all,

is that P is to put into one sentence your goal. So I want everyone here to think about an important meeting coming up, presentation coming up, encounter coming up. So put in one sentence what your goal is. What do you want to have happen at the end of that? What do you want them to say? What do you want them to do? What do you want to receive in one the end of that? What do you want them to say? What do you want them to do? What do you want to receive in one sentence? All right, let's put it in one sentence. L is for you to learn their PIN. P-I-N is not for a bank or your account.

It's actually priorities, interest, and needs. What are their priorities? Not what do I want? I want them to sign this contract. I want them to hire me. I want them to give me this deal. No. No, what are their priorities, interests, and needs? All right. A is anticipate their objections and make it moot. Why will they say no? Why will they not be interested? Why will they think this is too expensive? It takes too much time. Hasn't worked before. Okay. Now how can we get ahead of that? And then in is a new next. How can we do or say

something that bakes those in, that gives them a new option that is in alignment with their pin, that makes them want to say yes, that makes them, you know, that gets them on board. So, go back to Cisco. When I asked him in one sentence what he wanted, you know, he, I said, what do you want them to feel at the end of this all-hands meeting? Well, he's a Cisco guy, right? It's blink, blink, blink, blink, feel. I said, yeah. And he said, well, I guess I wanted to feel proud. We exceeded all of our numbers. Good. What else? I guess I wanted to feel excited that they're looking forward to our Q1. We got a big launch. I said, great. I said,

you think you might want to put some pictures of people in your PowerPoint slides? Because all of his PowerPoint slides were numbers and grids and graphs. There was not one picture of a human being in the entire PowerPoint slide. How are those people going to feel seen? How are they going to be honored? How are they going to be honored? How are they going to feel like they're part of the story? So he was a quick study. He had the company photographer go around and take pictures of the people who had been putting in those 60-hour weeks, take pictures of the people, one person in particular who had identified a flaw and helped them correct it before they shipped, et cetera. So, and then I asked, okay, what might be their objections?

You know, well, one of their objections is that it was four o'clock on a Friday afternoon. I said, they're going to have one foot out the door. You know, they're not going to be listening to you. They're going to be wondering how long this lasts. So you're going to hold up a phone at the beginning and you're going to say, I can only imagine, not I know you're thinking that's presumptuous. I can only imagine you're thinking it's four o'clock on a Friday afternoon and these things usually last an hour or two, which puts you right in the middle of traffic on 101. He said, tell you what, I've condensed this

into 20 minutes. I promise you, you're going to be out of here by 4.30. He changed the mood by addressing their time anxiety. So see, if we want someone to say yes to whatever it is we're requesting or recommending, put your plan in place and chances are you'll get what you want and they'll get what they want. Excellent. So the plan, P, put your purpose in one sentence. L, learn their pin. A was anticipate their objections and make it moot. And then the last one was like this new next, right? Name the next direction. In your book, Talking on Eggshells, Sam, you talk about how we can use this to prepare for challenging conversations. And I think about all the challenging conversations people have. Maybe they have to give tough feedback is one example, or maybe they feel some kind of conflict

with the other person. What are some other ways people might use this idea of the plan that you've outlined for us? You know, so we've talked about a number of business situations and you brought up parents. So let's talk about how we can use this at home as well. And I get to share one of my favorite examples. I was visiting my son, Andrew, by the way, who was just written up in Fortune magazine for his Junto groups, men's groups. Tom, Tom's founder, Blake, just was praising him, et cetera. So I'm visiting Andrew.

His one-year-old son, Hero, is crawling across the floor, and he hauls himself up on this guitar that's on a stand over in the corner. He starts banging on the strings. Now, over on the left, Andrew could have said, no. He could have said, stop. He could have said, leave the guitar alone. He could have yanked the guitar away, all which would have made it worse. Instead, he said one word. Know what the word was? Careful. Careful. Gentle.

Gentle. That's even better. Isn't it? I saw Hero's face transform in front of me, and he reached back to the guitar, and he went strum, strum, strum, and there were bells up on the windows, and he reached up, he went ring, ring, ring, And in that moment, Hero made music. And it was because Andrew shaped his behavior instead of shamed it. He poached him how to do it right instead of criticizing him for doing it wrong. And as a result, Hero learned from that situation instead of losing face over that situation. And he felt better instead of Andrew making him feel bad. That is an example of how in the moment, if somebody does something wrong, if someone makes a mistake, instead of saying, stop, no, what do we want him to start to do?

Instead of correcting them or criticizing them, coach them on how to do it right so that we are shaping their behavior instead of shaming it. Yeah, that's a powerful idea. So many times we might shame other people's behavior without even realizing it instead of shaping their behavior and just how that, again, word choice makes a difference. You know, in your book, Talking on Eggshells, Sam, what I loved about it is, okay, you gave this plan for having challenging conversations, but then you gave us what to say and do if people are, for example, rude or arguing or disagreeing or a bully, you know, and then how do we manage our own expectations and our own mindset? Let's talk about that one, about what if someone is a bully? What do we do? Because I think

this can happen. I'm thinking about my teenagers, they're 14 and 16. But even as adults, we can experience bullies. So let's use that as an example from your book. It's really important is that I think that 95% of people care what's fair. I think they have a conscience and I think they want a win-win and they want to cooperate. 5% of people don't care what's fair and they don't want a win-win, they want to win, and they don't want to cooperate, they want to control. So what we're looking for is a pattern of behavior. See, if someone is rude or shouts at us or something, it could be situational. It could just be in that moment, we happen to be their lightning rod. And then we use all of these tongue-food talking on eggshells techniques that are on the premise that people are acting in good faith and that as long as we handle it diplomatically, proactively, they will, listen to these words,

respond in kind. Bullies won't respond in kind because they don't listen to logic. Once again, they want to win. They'll do or say whatever they need to, regardless of the consequences, if it gets them what they want. I'm going to suggest something that flies in the face of everything we've been told. Ready? Okay. Over on the left, haven't we been taught to use the I word? I don't think that's fair. I don't like to be spoken to like that. I feel my feelings are hurt. That works with 95 percenters who want to cooperate and who care what's fair. It backfires with bullies because they'll say tough. They want you to have your feelings hurt. They want you to be knocked off balance. So over on the left, if this is a pattern of behavior, this person has done it

consistently over time. It is not occasional. It is ongoing. Do not use the word I. Instead, use the word you. You, back off. You, take it somewhere else. You, give me some space. You keep that language to yourself because do you see it keeps the attention where it belongs, which is on their misbehavior instead of our reaction to it. So helpful. And you have, I, you know, I feel like I could talk to you for like five hours because you have your, your, your content is so deep and rich and you have 10 books tell us what you're working on next i'm so oh this is going to be my first public announcement are you ready i'm ready we're ready okay so now guess what i start with a story a 60 second story because once again how do we pop out how do we we stand out? Not with infobesity,

not with neck up rhetoric because you can find information online. That's ubiquitous. That's one of many. No, where we're unique is our real life stories where we once again extract our epiphany. So here's the real life story, extract the epiphany, ergo the book. Ready? All right, let's go. Okay. I'm with my friend, Judy Gray, and we're at Airely, which is a lovely historical inn outside of Washington, DC. I just finished a speaking engagement and we went there for a couple of days. Now I had some knee problems and she had some foot problems, some plantar fasciitis. So we were kind of hobbling around that property.

Now, I have swum the Waikiki Roughwater Swim. I used to run half marathons. I played competitive tennis with Rod Laverd, et cetera. So I've always been an athlete. And we woke up one morning and the lodge where we're going to have breakfast was a half mile away. And we honestly talked about driving there, even though it's only half mile away. And we honestly talked about driving there, even though it's only half mile away. And I could not believe as a former athlete that I was actually thinking about driving a half mile instead of walking the 10 minutes or whatever. And so we, over breakfast, we talked about how much we value our mobility, how much we value being able to be adventurous in the world. And I told Judy a story, I said, you know, when I used to play with Rocket, is that there was a woman and whenever she would

hit a winner, she would say, not bad for 60 something. And I promised myself I would never define myself by my age. I would not use it as an excuse or as an accolade. And I realized that I had gotten to the stage where that had crept in, where I was thinking about, well, not bad for a fill in the age. And so I came up with a word, agency, capital A, capital G, capital E, age, and C. And so how do to use age as incentive, not excuse. Whoa. Well, that's going to be wonderful. I can't wait to read that. Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. Tell us what it's going to be about. Well, see, now we have to define our terms, right? Because see, if the idea, if it intrigues us,

if it gets our eyebrows up, that's good. Now Now though, we need to give it teeth. And we often give it teeth. You and I talked about defining elitism and the whole thing could depend on you having a crackerjack definition that people buy into, that they see with fresh, all positive eyes. So for me, agency, capital A-G-E-N-C-Y, is the opportunity, ability, and responsibility to improve what happens to us, by us, and around us. Notice I didn't use the verb control. I used the word improve. And I believe that agency is whatever age we are, is that we have an opportunity, we can develop the ability, and we have a responsibility to improve whatever is happening to us, by

us, or around us. Wonderful. And I love how I never thought about how age is an agency. So you're making me think a lot about words today. Sam, your company is called The Intrigue Agency. And I know you're a keynote speaker. You have these 10 books. I know you're also a coach and focus on communication.

Tell us how we might work with you and learn more about your work. Well, first, thank you. You're so gracious. I've agreed. I thoroughly enjoyed this. I hope that everyone watching and listening has too. I work virtually. I work with people around the world and we figure out, I send out a questionnaire. Many people say, oh my goodness, I've got more clarity just filling out that questionnaire than I ever have to figure out what's your priority. What do you want in our time together so that we can always be productive and on purpose? So I work

virtually. And also I live on this lovely stream trail in Austin. And a lot of times people come for a couple of days to do a deep dive. They're trying to figure out their next. They've got a TEDx talk coming up. They're working on their book and they want it to be one of a kind instead of one of many. And so people can go to our website, which is samhorn.com, S-A-M-H-O-R-N. There's information there about my coaching and consulting and my speaking. And I guess you can tell I love what I do. I just am thrilled by the opportunity to work with smart and talented people who are doing good things in the world and for me to help facilitate what that looks like and what could light them up.

And I can tell that you have found your unique gifts, right? In terms of all the things we've talked about today. And you gave us so many value bombs, we're going to call them today. The AIR acronym that you started with, you helped us provide us an idea of how we can be a little bit stickier with our words. And you gave us several ways to do that. We also talked about a plan acronym, which I really appreciate, and ways to really help us have difficult conversations. And then you gave us a list of words to lose versus the words to use, such as but, and we'll use and instead, or not should have, but next time, or you'll have to if you could, can't because as soon as. So Sam, thank

you so much for joining us on the High Performance Mindset. It was wonderful to talk with you. Thank you. And by the way, I hope we connect on LinkedIn as well, because my life is my lab, and I do ink it when I think it. And that's where I often share a situation that just happened and the resulting epiphany that may be relevant and inspiring to people. So I hope people connect with me on LinkedIn so that we can stay in touch. Perfect. Sam Horn on LinkedIn. Thank you so much for joining us, Sam. You're welcome. Thank you.

Way to go for finishing another episode of the High Performance Mindset. I'm giving you a virtual fist pump. Holy cow, did that go by way too fast for anyone else? If you want more, remember to subscribe and you can head over to Dr. Sindhra for show notes and to join my exclusive community for high performers where you get access to videos about mindset each week. So again, you can head over to Dr. Sindhra. That's D-R-C-I-N-D-R-A.com. See you next week.