High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 640: 3 Core Principles of Performance Psychology with Sam Bishop, Keynote Speaker and Executive and Sport Psychology Coach

Episode Date: September 13, 2024

Sam Bishop has a decade of experience working with elite performing athletes and professional sports teams. His client base ranges from Premier League and Women’s Super League footballers, to Premiership rugby players, Professional Golfers and Cricket players.  Over the last 5 years, he has also worked as an Executive and Performance Psychology Coach adapting his performance coaching style from the sports fields to the boardroom. He regularly delivers performance psychology keynote talks and masterclasses to companies such as Hewlett Packard, Nestlé, Citibank and Microsoft. In this episode, Cindra and Sam discuss:  The #1 thing holding us back 3 key core principles of performance psychology How change is a personal journey  What the best of the best do differently  With a Master’s Degree in Psychotherapy and accredited by the British Association of Counselling and Psychotherapy, let’s welcome Sam to the show!   HIGH PERFORMANCE MINDSET SHOWNOTES FOR THIS EPISODE LEARN MORE ABOUT SAM TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE MENTALLY STRONG INSTITUTE Love the show? Rate and review the show for Cindra to mention you on the next episode.  

Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Dr. Cindra Kampoff, and thank you so much for joining me here today for episode 640. I'm grateful that you are here. Today, I want to introduce you to Sam Bishop. Sam has a decade of experience working with elite performing athletes and professional sports teams. His client base ranges from the Premier League and Women's Super League footballers to the Premiership rugby players, professional golfers, and cricket players. Over the last five years, he's also worked as an executive and performance psychology coach, adopting his performance psychology style from the sports fields to the boardroom,

and he regularly delivers performance psychology keynote talks and masterclasses to companies such as Nestle, Citibank, and Microsoft. In this episode, Sam and I talk about the number one thing holding you back, three key core principles of performance psychology, how change is a personal journey, and what the best of the best do differently. to find the full show notes and description you can head over to cindracampoff.com slash 640 and if you haven't already please leave us a rating and review we would be so forever grateful if you're listening on your iphone for example you can just scroll down and click five stars and tell us what you

think about the podcast. I read those each week. And so I would be so ever grateful for you. Let's welcome Sam to the show. Thank you so much, Sam Bishop, for being here on the High Performance Mindset podcast. How's your day going? It's going brilliantly. Thank you. Thank you for the invitation. I'm really looking forward to sharing time with you today. I'm looking forward to it as well. And we met at the National Speakers Association Conference in Denver, and I couldn't wait to have you on just to tell you, you know, to tell us a little bit more about what you do and share your expertise in performance psychology. So I think we should just get started. And, you know, you work with a lot of elite

performers in sport and in the business world. What do you think is the number one thing that holds people back, Sam? If I was to give you a really sort of global response or sort of headline response, it would be that they're holding themselves back. But if I take that into a little bit more specific depth and detail, I'm being really honest with you. Over the last decade of working with, as you say, both sport and business clients, at times it will categorize themselves into two spaces. It'll either be something that's going on in their mindset, so in their thinking, or it'll be something that's going on very much in the emotional space for them. So it might be a feeling or a doubt or an uncertainty that's bubbling up in some way that's inhibiting them from fulfilling potential or performing at their very best.

One of the things that I often recognize that my clients contact me or reach out to me was when they notice a change in their behaviors. So they're not performing at their best, they're not hitting their KPIs or they're not hitting their PVs, for example, or they're not scoring goals. Over here in England in soccer, I work a lot with the football players and they'll notice a change there, but they won't recognize what maybe is going on in the underlying spaces of their mindset and their emotions. And that's why it's brilliant that I then get the opportunity to work with them, to take them into those spaces, to explore what could be holding them back. And as I say, if I'm very direct with you, often it's something that's either in their thinking and psychologically affecting them, or it's something that's going

on emotionally in that feeling space. Yeah. I like the two distinctions of like thinking and feeling. And I'm curious if you could give us just some examples, like what have you seen in terms of like the thinking or the mindset that holds people back? And then what are the emotions you think holds people back? Yeah, absolutely. One of the things that I would say, I suppose, if I give a business example for mindset, one of the things I regularly see is that sort of crippling self-doubt. So sometimes it will be labeled as imposter syndrome. Sometimes it can be labeled as high levels of sort of anxiety performance.

But really what I sense is, is people feeling unstable or uncertain about being themselves in that space, either because they're not sure if they've got the skill set or if they're uncertain about whether it's going to be positively received. Sometimes there can be some senses of fears or judgments that are going on in that space that are then triggering them to think, I am not good enough. I'm out of my depth, all of those sorts of languages that would then be embedded in their thinking when they're experiencing something like the imposter syndrome experience. If we then go to say a sporting example with maybe an emotion or a feeling, it can be at times this crippling low sense of confidence. So it can be again, that sort of inability to hold on to recognition, the celebration

of who they are, the skill sets that they have, the talents that they have, the recognition of the journey that they've been on, the hard work that they've put in, the high levels of performance that they've had. Working with a Premier League football player, a soccer player over here in the UK, they are highly talented people. They've had high levels of success. They've worked really, really hard. But it's not unusual for me to meet with them, for them to feel emotionally low, almost empty, feeling low levels of motivation, confidence, any of that energy that allows them then to fulfill their potential and play at the performance levels that they know that they can. And so when they're in their performance places, they're in the changing rooms, they're playing in packed stadiums. They know there are

millions of people watching them around the world. Rather than feeling up for it or confident or that idea of head and body in the game, they're actually just wanting to avoid it, escape it and go to a retreat to a place of safety because that's what they want to feel is safe rather than thriving in that performance space. Yeah, absolutely. Sam, I agree with you. You know, when I think about the things that hold people back, I think, and the feeling in this thinking is so. I think it can be a lack of confidence, fear, judgment of self, you know, really high self-criticism are some examples of things I see hold people back. And I want to talk a little bit about one of the things that you are, because you're a speaker and you're a key editor as well, right? And you talk about three key core principles of performance psychology. Tell us what those three are and why you chose these three specifically and then let's dive into them. Yeah, absolutely. So my sort of journey into keynote speaking was very organic and sort of

happened accidentally. I was doing some work with a large organization and they said, look, we've got a conference happening rather than just working with our leadership team and talking about this content, would you be happy to come and talk to several hundred of our employees on this platform and tell us a little bit more about what you do, the insights you've given us? Water down the message a little bit, but still have the impact and give them the insight. And so what then started to become a question mark for me was how do I take all of those years of academic experience in psychology and psychotherapy all of those years of working with elite athletes working in a variety of different ways across a variety of different sports to a 45 minute keynote and I'd land an impact yeah absolutely with relevant stories and key points and impact and what they could take

away and so that's what I condensed it down to is what you've identified there my first keynote was very much and still is uh sort of the bedrock of what I talk about, the three core principles for performance, preparation, execution, and reflection. And really what I share with audiences, or what I could share with your audience on the podcast today is that for me, that's what the elite performers in the spawning space, particularly, identify for me with the three core stages to ensure that you're really fulfilling your potential and performing at your very best. So the preparation phase is that phase of time before you go into the execution or the performance start. So before the referee blows his whistle, before the meeting

starts, before you start the sales call. Everything that happens before that moment of execution, performance, that's the preparation phase. One of the key things that I identified with my clients and when I started to work with them on was recognizing, are they being intentional in their preparation phase or are things happening accidentally in that preparation phase? And what was a constant theme was the elite performers that were constantly reaching high levels or consistently reaching levels of high performance, they would being very intentional. They were being very ritualized, very routined, very structured. Some people might say superstitious, but they knew how to set themselves up for success. And a lot of the clients that were maybe having lower levels of performance

or finding dysfunction in their performance, they were leaving it to accidental sort of luck almost that they were prepared as much as they could be when they went into the performance space. And so that was a really big light bulb moment, not only for me in the work, but also when working with other clients to make sure we establish intentional patterns and routines to make sure that they do all they can before they then go and try to be the best version of themselves in that performance phase. So one of the key things that I referenced in the preparation part of the keynote is making sure that we as individuals, wherever you are, whatever business area, business unit, teams, wherever you're working, that you make sure you identify what works for you. So taking time to not just copy what your colleague does, or because your manager prepares for a meeting in this way, or there's a big tournament and a big

final coming up and your three teammates are doing that pre-match routine, you must follow it. Breaking that cycle of just following others and comparing self to others and really breaking down what works for them so i hope that gives you a little bit of detail a little bit of texture and i'm happy to move on to execution since you if that feels okay to give you that layer then how it connects in sure let me ask one question about preparation um because i i see what you what you mean and i I think about kind of this idea of intentional versus accidental, right? What are some examples of ways that you might help people establish some routines and rituals? Because I'm thinking about people who are listening and they're thinking, gosh, well, I probably could level up my preparation a little bit more.

So sometimes it's about going into those really sort of core fundamental areas, things like hydration, things like sleep, things like nutrition, but also things like energy. So sometimes I talk to my clients about their emotional energy before they're about to go. So some of my clients are high buzzy people. They want to get up for the game and they're happy two to three hours before a match or a fixture or a sales call or a keynote presentation. They are happy to be in the audience, in the crowd, listening to loud music, really pumping themselves up for that prolonged period of time. But I've also worked with other clients that if they start to get pumped up too early or psyched up too early, then they'll tire themselves out. They'll almost exhaust themselves before they

get there. So they're very much people that need to be more separate, maybe more silent, maybe a little bit more reflective. Similarly with visualization. Visualization is really popular over here in the UK at the moment. I'm getting lots of clients that are talking to me about it. For some of my clients, it works brilliantly. In the moments or the days before a big performance, let's visualize. Let's see yourself in that moment. Let's see you performing, being at your very best. Other clients would say to me, Sam, I don't want to do anything about it. I don't want to think about the game. I'll be overthinking about it. I won't be able to sleep the night before. You'll start to make me over. I just want to arrive at the game. I just want to see the game

and I'll play it when I arrive in that very free flowing, much more organic style. And so those are some of the examples from when people are setting their alarms to go to bed or nutrition, hydration, things like that, all the way through to what music are you listening to? What energy are you having? Where are you sitting? Are you with colleagues going for lunch before a big meeting in the afternoon? Are you deciding to just maybe take yourself out for a walk away from the office? All of those sorts of dynamics are really what we explore when we get into that preparation work. Yeah, I love it. It makes me think of a theory called individualized zones of optimal functioning by Yuri Hanin. It's a mouthful, but it's basically, you know, that we all have our own emotional

profile when we perform our best. And I think it's about pulling back the layers of an onion, helping people understand, okay, tell me about your best performance and how did and how did you feel right tell me about a performance where you didn't do so well how did you feel and really comparing and contrasting that and then allowing people to think about i love your idea of rituals and routines and you know all the different psychological skills that you could do to experience peak performance more often yeah and and really get people to reflect on that, because I think sometimes when there is a high level of success or there's a high level of consistent performance, people can almost overlook what they do to establish that.

And it only becomes a concern where they then start to reach low levels of performance. And so they stop or they don't connect to what got them to the top of the mountain until they start to slip off the top of the mountain. And so you just said sometimes it's a case of saying pause you've already done this we know we've already got those rituals and routines but maybe you've stepped away from them or life has changed or you're relocated because you're now playing for a different team or you're in a different area of the country for business sometimes it's about the reconnection back to what was already leading them to success and sometimes it's about adapting and evolving what was working maybe no longer works but we sometimes it's about adapting and evolving what was working,

maybe no longer works, but we could take some of that insight and we can elevate it to new techniques and strategies too. Excellent, Sam. So that is preparation. Tell us about the second core principle, execution and why that's important. So I smile a lot when I think about execution

because this is really predominantly when the clients arrive, particularly in the sporting space by athletes. this is predominantly where they want to focus straight away because they will know they're not performing when the sort of the lights come on over here's the lot of used to face this is the time to shine this is you know my performance window you know referee blows his whistle I've got 90 minutes of a fixture I've got to be at my best I've got to get the best out of myself and similarly with some of my business clients they now know with the business routines and cadences that they have, there are certain points within each quarter that

they have to hit the mark really hard to hit those KPIs and get themselves going. What that will often do whilst they recognize that and they identify that is that will generate a high level or high level feeling of pressure, a pressure to perform, pressure to get themselves. And one of the things that I do in this space in the execution work is really just break that down and get them to understand a little bit more about whether that's an internal or external pressure. So again, to expand on that a little bit, internally, are you generating this pressure? Are you telling yourself that you have to be at your very best? You must be 110% today. You must smash this. Everything must go perfectly. Are you generating the pressure that you're feeling, which is actually blocking you from being able to perform at your best? Or is it coming from an external

source? Are you becoming over obsessed with maybe what your manager's or leader's reaction is going to be? In the athletics and sporting spaces, are you concerned about what the fans are going to say? What the messages are going to be on social media and starting to listen to those external voices and that then becoming high levels of pressure that are then blocking you from being able to just organically be yourself and that fear sometimes of being seen by another that can really drive up some high levels of external anxiety and pressure that then will block a lot of the players and people that I'm working with from being at their best so really what what I try to do is get them to identify the source

once you identify the source of the pressure that can sometimes block them, sometimes if I'm honest with you, Sindhu, and your audience today on the podcast, we can't remove it. We can't get rid of it. But what I will try to do with my clients is get them to think about how we can maybe refocus it to elevate their performance rather than inhibit their performance. And so rather than maybe have that internal questioning, criticism, high levels of pressure,

rather than it being a blocker, can we use it in a way of actually maybe increasing levels of motivation, drive, or maybe refocus it in different ways to maybe put some of that charge and energy into the preparation phase, rather than it just going off like a grenade when they go into the performance execution phase.

So sometimes, like I say, we can't eradicate it completely, but there are opportunities to sometimes redirect it and refocus it. And so it's a fine balance. And this is what I wanted to say as well, because what I don't want to do is dial down some of my clients' real hunger and appetite to be their very best, because some of my clients talk about thriving off the jeopardy of loss. They are highly driven athletes and highly different performers because they want to win they want to get out there they want to compete

they want the heat of the battle that really ignites them that's why they're where they are today because they love a competition even in training they'll they'll put 110 energy into win a win a game or do something while in a training match because that can be what drives them. So we're not trying to remove the pressure or the energy from that completely. But sometimes it might be about making sure that they're harnessing that in a way that will ensure they can be who they need to be. They can perform in the ways that they want to. And it can be as simple as just sometimes those inner blockers or those inner pressure points having their greatest power until we start to question them or until we start to explore them. Because sometimes they will say, you know, I recognize now some from our work. I'm creating

the pressure for myself. And it might just be as simple as asking them, well, do you want me to work with you to try and take it away? Sometimes the answer will be no, I don't want to take it away. But now I know that it's happening. Let's create some strategies to be able to deal with it in the moment. And again, that's why this can often be quite a complicated and very individualized piece of work in the execution phase, because often there'll be many layers to what's going on, and often many different ways that we can find a successful outcome to lead them to consistent performance when they need to execute and when they need to be at their best. Yeah, I appreciate that, Sam. It makes me think of Henry Weisinger has a great book on pressure, excuse me. And he talks about how we experience pressure because the outcome

is unknown to us and the outcome is uncertain and we feel judged by the outcome. And what's interesting is like all those statements are about the outcome. So tell me a little bit about when you say like thriving on the jeopardy of the loss and how elite performers, like what is the mentality around that? Because I think about how thinking about the loss can actually create more pressure. So what's the fine line there that you see? One of the ways in which I've seen it being really effectively, I suppose, walk that fine line is that there being the opportunity to really push yourself for every possible moment that there is within a game. So if there's

seven minutes left in the fixture, there's still time to play, there's still time to battle, there's still time to compete, that they will push and utilize all of the energy that they have within them to allow themselves to push and be and push and compete and really push into that space. So it's not about trying, as I say, reduce it at that time. Let's use it. Let's maximize it. And let's really go because they don't want to lose. They won't with seven minutes left of the game, pass the board sideways to play for the draw or play to not lose. They will push the ball forward because they want to win. They want to be successful. The challenge then will often be the fine line of success will then be when the match ends, how they then respond and they react

to themselves, which starts, I suppose, to link it naturally to the reflection phase, which is the third core principle within the model. It's then about then maybe some of the internal language and the ways in which we react and respond to ourselves at that point to almost create that counterbalance between the execution phase where we push ourselves to the maximum to compete, to win, to be victorious. My question to them then or the work will then be, if you are not successful or if you don't win and that victory has not been achieved, what then happens? What is then going on internally, psychologically, and emotionally? And same with sales meetings, same with conferences, same with, I suppose, KPIs. If you don't hit your number, if at the end of this quarter, this drive, this push doesn't

lead to success as you define it or as defined by the business metrics, what will happen then? And sometimes that can be done pre rather than post. And again, that can often be quite a useful piece of the work is that we start to discuss that fine line. Let's get you to really go for it and compete hard right now, hard as you possibly can. But let's also think about what happens if you're victorious. And let's also think about what happens if there's a loss at the end too. Sure. That's helpful. I think about, I think the execution, the way I might put it and tell me if this is what you're saying is like, could you just focus on the process today? Could you just execute, you know, everything that you can on this particular play and that can help decrease pressure? Are there any other strategies you might provide us that could help people decrease pressure because you know we all feel it in some way and especially when the outcome is really

important to us or you know we really want to do well it's easy for us to experience pressure absolutely one of the other sort of top techniques i would share today is i talk about it as being the first five touches and And so this relates to everybody in the sporting space that I work with and also business context as well. And the first five touches technique that I share with my clients is about really programming a really forward thinking, planning if you can, what will happen with those first five touches. In some of my athletic sporting clients, it's not possible, but really the model technique there is that as soon as they possibly can, as soon as that match starts or that fixture begins, get five touches on the ball, get yourself in the game and allow yourself to enter and then allow yourself to build a foundation of performance from those first five touches. Rather than being a little bit lost or not grounded in that game or that performance space, find a way to ground yourself in that space and get in that experience, get yourself those first five touches.

In a business example or case, it might be, for example, a leader doing an all-hands meeting or a big kickoff announcement at a massive conference. It might be getting them to think about those first five words or the first five sentences or first five points. And again, some of my clients in the business space will be scripters and they will script those first five sentences and they will come into sessions with me two weeks before and be like, I've got them. I know my first five touches. I'm going to say this, I'm going to say this. It's going to be followed by that. And it allows them that feeling of confidence to establish themselves in this space rather than just focus on the jeopardy or the pressure that's going to come in that space. And really what I suppose that technique allows people to do to overcome the overwhelm of pressure too soon is allows them a way of finding some confidence in them. It can elevate their feelings of being prepared. It can elevate their feelings of being

a performer because they're in there doing it. I've had five touches or I've said my first five sentences. And what I often find is that then reduces that fight, flight, freeze, or that fear, that doubt, that jeopardy that can often be spiraling at the start of a performance window by them feeling like they've got some level of control by having the first five touches in that space. Yeah, I love that. And I love the way that you coined that, the first five touches, right? And how you can relate it to the business world as well. And you're right. Usually it's like we just overthink the beginning. And once we get in the rhythm, we feel a lot more confident in ourselves.

Hi, this is Cyndra Campoff. And thanks for listening to the High Performance Mindset. Did you know that the ideas we share in the show are things we actually specialize in implementing? If you want to become mentally stronger, lead your team more effectively and get to your goals quicker. Visit freementalbreakthroughcall.com to sign up for your free mental breakthrough call with one of our certified coaches. Again, that's freementalbreakthroughcall.com to sign up for your free call. Talk to you soon. So, so far we've talked about two of these three core principles, preparation, execution.

Tell us about reflection and why that's really important in your opinion to peak performance. Yeah. Thank you, Sinja. So reflection is the final step. It's the final core principle. And I suppose I just touched on it slightly, but really what I'm talking about here is the curiosity. And all of the elite performers at the very consistent high level have always demonstrated to me in some form or another that they hold a curiosity. They're always curious to find out what went well and maybe why that went well and why at times it didn't go so well. And maybe what was led to that, what were the reasons or the causes for that? So they've demonstrated to me that this principle can exist, but in many other areas of client work that I have

in sport and also in business, particularly in business, this is just a principle that doesn't exist. Or it's a principle that gets delayed to the end of the quarter or the end of the financial year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we'll review everything. We've got time. We've got deadlines. We've got pressure. We must keep push, push, push, push, push. That's how I've finished. What are you doing next week? Rather than let's pause, let's reflect, let's be curious, let's celebrate our successes and maybe think about how we can repeat them, but let's also drain the goodness, let's drain the learning. And one of my clients, one of the things I say with my clients is it's almost like holding a piece of fruit after the game or after the performance window is edited and squeezing that piece of fruit to get all of the juice out of it. It's that visualization of taking out what you can,

the learnings, the flavor, the color from the experience to then inform you to, I suppose, close the loop. Because it may be that in the reflection phase, you recognise that maybe you didn't prepare as well as you possibly could have, or there are things that maybe needed to happen differently before you went to perform. Or it could be purely in the moment issues and challenges or dynamics that need to be addressed for the next time. But I suppose one of the first things to reference is that I'm encouraging your audience to just make sure they allow themselves some space and time to do this. More often than not, as I say, with the pace of life, the pace of deadlines and commitments, it's something that we don't do. And then it will mean that it doesn't become a reflection muscle. That's another way I

talk about it with my clients is that you need to do this consistently on a regular basis to build up the strength of the exercise. If you don't and you leave it to the end of the season or the end of the next quarter or the end of the financial year, when you come to it, it won't feel familiar. It won't feel like you are confident in what it is that's being expected of you. The muscle won't have strength and therefore it loses its effectiveness. So if people are going to take it forward because it sounds like a good idea to create some of this reflection opportunity, to be curious about myself and what I did and what I did brilliantly and what I could do better. It is about making sure that initially it becomes very structured, because if people don't structure it or commit to it, it can often, as I say, become overlooked. And it doesn't have to take a huge amount of time either.

Some of my business leaders that I work with, I'm smiling as we're doing this recording recording because they would say to me, great idea, Sam, but we don't have time. Great idea, Sam, but we don't have resource. And actually that's because I sometimes think they think it's going to be an offsite or we need to take a day off or we need to block out three hours of the morning. Actually, it can take, if we build up the muscle and it becomes a strong muscle within our processes, it can actually lead to just being a couple of minutes. You know, at the end of every performance, at the end of every big meeting, at the end of every fixture, this is where the elite athletes are doing it. You know, they're just breaking it down. You know, celebrate yourself. What went well today? Tell us. Identify. I believe I did this well today.

Great. Okay. And if we were to play that fixture again tomorrow, what would you do differently? And the same with sales meetings, sales pitches. It's about that opportunity of it being seen as something that can evolve, grow and become a part of our daily, weekly working lives rather than having to be this big event, these big annual reviews that often means that the reflection phase is disliked or distrusted by the people that I go and initially speak to. Yeah, that's really helpful. I think it's much easier perhaps for athletes to add reflection because it's like the evening of the performance or the day after.

But you're right, the business world, it's like next thing and we don't always take a step back to celebrate the things that we've done really well. So we've talked about preparation, execution, reflection is three core principles of peak performance sam i also know that you know you speak a lot about change and why change is really important and i want to talk a little bit about that because um the world is constantly changing and especially in the business world we have to be really flexible and adaptable and even in sport our teams can change a lot so you you talk a little bit about how change starts with you. Tell us a little bit about how change is a personal journey. Yeah. Thank you, Sinja. So again, I suppose this keynote has grown organically and it's

grown organically out of work, predominantly in the business and sort of leadership space, working with senior leadership groups or individual leaders as a performance coach and them having real challenges at times of change or leading their teams and their people through times of change. One of the things that constantly came up as a theme was this over-reliance or over, I suppose, confidence that because we've got a process in place, this change will be successful.

I'm about to lead this reorganization or this relocation. We're going to merge with this company. We're going to maybe change this company. We're going to maybe change from hybrid working out to bringing everybody back into the office full time. Those are some of the things that go on regularly with the businesses that I work within. And then recognizing as leaders that they had a process that maybe they'd worked with consultancy firms and they'd worked as senior leaders to really create a robust process.

And then when it was executed or when it was launched, it didn't have the level of success that they felt that it would or believe that it should. And that will often be because they forgot to think about the people. They forgot to think about the people and they just believed in the process. So just because a time of change requires you to do something that makes sense and it's logical, doesn't necessarily mean that your people are going to believe in it, follow it, like it, or trust it. And so when I was going through these regular sort of, I suppose, consultancy sessions and programs with these organizations that I was working with, I thought there's a keynote opportunity here to take this message from the small group of

clients that I'm working with to larger leadership audiences. And that's really where you find me now as it's now progressing and as it's becoming more consistently booked. And it's really about taking out that opportunity to get leaders and groups of people to recognize that we need to make sure that we take a consideration of the internal experiences that we are having as human beings. That's the leader all the way through down to the lower levels of the organization as we now approach a period of change. Because yes, at times we can be very logical as human beings, but the majority of the time we're emotional beings still. We react emotionally about how we feel towards the situation. And again, that could often throw up quite a light bulb moment for a lot of leaders that I'm supporting.

Is that yes, it's great to have a process that makes sense. And yes, some of your people will get confidence because they can see a logical pathway forward, but there'll be other people within your organization that will be feeling the change before they go to a thinking towards the change. And in the feeling space, they've got uncertainty, they've got doubt, they've got worry, they've got that insecurity around what does this actually mean for me? And so again, it's about getting leaders to not only think about their own experiences towards change as they're leading their people through it, but making sure that they allow their people time

to have space to feel and think about the change rather than just expect them to follow the next step or the next part of the process. One of the leaders that I work with, Cindy, said, some have given them all the data. They know all the details. Now it's up to them. And it was like, okay, on one level, that's maybe great, but on another level, are you and your leadership team

and your managing structure allowing your people to respond emotionally, to share their fears, to offer their doubts, to ask the questions that they need to have answered so that they can to have answered so that they can remove some of their uncertainties. And initially there was a blind spot there because they believed that they'd given enough data, they'd given enough detail. But often that isn't the case. And often it will become a leadership approach of following a time of, sorry, through a

time of change, following a process. What I'm encouraging people to think about is it being the personal journey. Change is a personal journey for all of us. And if we are ever going to reach a position of acceptance and integration through a time of change, sometimes for a lot of us, it's going to, actually, I'm going to go wide enough, maybe even say all of us, we need to give some respect and space to our emotions as we're doing that too. Not just follow a logical plan, but actually allow it to be felt and allow that to be expressed as well. Yeah. So isn't that so true that Sam, that we sometimes don't even think about the person as we're thinking about change and how it can be really emotional. We can feel fear or uncertainty when we're experiencing change. So how would you tell us as leaders that we can work on

our own attitude to change? It's a really great reflection because I think what people often do is they don't allow themselves to think about their attitudes to change. So even your question, I think we're breaking new ground. Many people just hear about the change, have maybe a quite strong reaction to the change, and then will grasp onto a step or a path that they then feel will help them successfully navigate through it rather than thinking about maybe how they're feeling or how they're responding or even their attitude. So again, the most successful organizations that I've been working with recently and the most successful leadership teams I've been working through recently openly invite there to be open discussions and reflections within their organizations when they're approaching a time of change to consider things like their attitudes, to consider their beliefs, to get into their space of their uncertainties. So one of the things that I

think is the most, I suppose, appropriate way to do it is to keep pushing that into the awareness as we go on the journey. Some leaders, when I talk with them at Keynote say, but we've got to do the change. We have to do it. And I'm not saying that we shouldn't change because of course the world that we live in evolves and there will always be the need for change or things to be adapted, but it's about how we approach it so not only making sure that we allow there to be space to follow those plans and processes but make sure you ask your people how are they feeling about it what are their attitudes towards it some of my leaders say oh sam we need to get everybody on the bus we've got this new destination we've got the new

destination we need to get everybody on the bus excuse me we need to make sure everybody's with us and the people that are maybe a little bit more hesitant or insecure about it, maybe a little bit resistant to jump on the bus, can be blamed, shamed, criticized, be seen as unsupportive. Actually, if we're really honest, maybe they just need a little bit more space to talk about it or have their fears addressed before they can come on the bus. And when they get on the bus, they might be the highest performers and they might be exactly who you need in your businesses and your teams to be the best performers that you need when you go to that new time of change or that new look organization. But again, it's that sometimes that desperation, that pace and

that pressure at times of change that I think people forget the attitudes, the beliefs, the fears, the emotions part of human beings that they would all be going through from, as I say, the leader themselves all the way through to the bottom levels of the organization. But it's about making sure that there's space and time to look at that and where appropriate. And I strongly encourage this, that things like attitudes, feelings are spoken about openly rather than being kept to the individual and being hidden from others within the organization. Okay, excellent. Well, that's really helpful, Sam, I think to just give the advice of speaking

about their feelings openly and the fears that people have. And I think maybe there's sometimes some hesitation to do that, because what if I can't control the situation? Or what if something said that, you know, feels really uncomfortable? so is there any other advice you'd give to leaders just to help them deal with the emotions of change yeah one of the things that I would encourage them to think about where possible syndrome is whether it has to be an inevitable change or a decision of change or an action of change is going to become active. My encouragement for them is where possible to include your people in the decision making processes as much as possible organizations where the people feel like a change is happening to them and they're being overly directed rather than feeling like they're

being involved in the process. And I regularly see it within multiple levels of organizations of, yes, I know we need to change some, but I do not understand why the leadership team have decided to do this in the reorganization, for example, rather than doing this. Surely this makes most sense. And this is the most cost-effective or I suppose dynamic and effective way to make the change. And actually sometimes the people in the organization have the answers or have some really fantastic insights that can inform the journey of change that the company has to go through. And again, it isn't that place of saying we're not going to change, but it's a way in which the organization and they structurally approach the period of change. And so if we can, earlier in the process rather than later in the process, I believe, get your people involved.

And emotionally, therefore, I feel like it drops the intensity of people's emotional reactions. They will still have them. We are all human beings. Of course, they will. But you might notice that the severity of their emotional reaction in, for example, a kickoff meeting where it's being announced will be significantly reduced if people feel like they know it's coming, like they've had a consultation or they've had an opportunity to input ideas. My belief is there'll be much higher levels of buy-in, both logically and emotionally, which will therefore lead into their actions and behaviors if they feel involved rather than this is being

told to me i have to accept it i have no voice and i'm not going to be hurt yeah absolutely thank you thank you sam is there anything else you'd want to tell us about change and any other advice uh as we help people lead through change yeah one of the i suppose the the final things to offer to to the people that are listening to the to the podcast today that are leading people through change and also people that will just naturally be going through change themselves is one of the sort of positions I put out for my clients is,, I suppose, an attitude or a mindset and emotional space of that is that I think it's important that we embrace change because as you've said, change is inevitable. The world that we live in today, it's not going to be the same in five years time. So we need to embrace change rather than fear change. Second part is about doing it with curiosity. So can you approach this period of change with an openness of your mindset rather than a fear or a jeopardy mindset, which will often close us off or put us into that fear fight flight, the sort of resistance mindset. So can you be curious as we're embracing change?

Because change is inevitable. And the final part is about confidence. How can we, can we allow you as an individual to still have feelings of confidence as we're going through a period of change. And often clients will say things like, well, I don't have certainty. I don't know what the change is going to look like for me. I can't yet see my place or position within it or what 12 months time looks like. And whilst I'm very respectful of that, what I believe and what I'm able to connect my clients back into is confidence in themselves right now and who they are as a human being right now, regardless

of needing to know where they're going to be in 12 months time or exactly what that looks like. And so sometimes it's about finding a way from low levels of confidence because there is the uncertainty about what the future holds to a confidence in themselves to be able to face whatever the future holds because they reconnect back to their values, their skill sets, their personality, their strengths, and allow themselves to change it from an uncertain lens to a certain lens because we get them looking back at who they are and their strength rather than the future, which will carry the uncertainty and the fear. Absolutely. Well said. Well, Sam, before we wrap up, is there any other unique ways that you talk about performance psychology or mental performance i'm curious about that before we wrap up yeah always when it comes

to performance psychology and i've referenced it today but not really made it explicit is to think about the triangle that the feelings the thoughts of the behavior triangle so i know it's out there in different sort of theories and methodologies and people talk about in different ways but i always talk about it and every client will know. I talk about the FTB triangle. Where are your feelings? What are your thoughts and how are your behaviors and your own actions? And again, I think that's a really good space for people to move forward, whatever they're doing, whether it's an elite athlete or somebody who's just starting their career in the business world.

It's allowing yourself when you go through life, entering different interactions and particularly when you're be thinking about how you prepare to perform or how you perform or how you review how you perform, break it down from those three lenses. Allow yourself to be curious. Be constantly curious about yourself. And sometimes people feel more confident or comfortable to feel curious about their behaviors. But if you really want that richness and that holistic insight and self-awareness, think about the FTB triangle. How did I feel? What were my thoughts and what were my actions? And that I suppose would be a final tool or technique I'd offer to your audience today. Thank you, Sam. I so appreciate you and I appreciate you being on. I'm going to do my best to summarize what we've talked about

today. So at the beginning, we are talking about things that hold people back. And you suggested it's really like the mindset and the emotions that hold people back. And we talked about a little bit how those are intertwined. We talked about three core principles of peak performance, preparation, execution, and reflection. And I really appreciated just having a step, take a step back to to say are we really prepared as much as we could be or do we need to you know continue to think about our own routines or rituals we talked about the execution and particularly how pressure can be internal and external and I loved your suggestion of the five touches and then we were talking about reflection how that's really important to,

even in the business world, reflect on your performance. And at the end, we were talking about change and how change starts with us and our attitude and how it's, you know, really think about the people when you're leading them through change because they're emotional beings. And at the end, thoughts, feelings, behavior in and the triangle. So Sam, how could people reach out to you, follow along your work? And if they want to learn more about your coaching, tell us a little bit more about how we can do that. Yeah, absolutely. So if people are interested in following up or learning a little bit more, seeing some of the content I put out there, I would encourage them to go initially to my website, which is www.sambishopinternational.com.

And on there, you'll find links and different pages related to the different areas of work that I do, the different specialisms that I have, but also links across to free resources. All of the material that I have, Sindhu, is out there. It's free. So there's over 100 videos on YouTube

that people can go to talking about different techniques, different insights that I can offer. But also there's some insight there on the website about how you can follow me on social media channels. Again, to, I suppose, follow along my journey, see some of the clients that I'm working with and the spaces that I find myself

and also just a more round I suppose holistic insight into some of the techniques and some of the work that I do and that maybe haven't been explored today or haven't been referred to so those would be the places and particularly just maybe the website is probably the first open space to go to well excellent Sam do you have any final advice for us as we wrap up? Yeah, my final, I suppose, giveaway or takeaway was just encourage you and your audience to be constantly curious. Stay curious, have a mind of wonder, be interested, curious about yourself, where you are at your very best and why, and where at times maybe you don't be at your very best or you struggle to perform. Also, why? Stay curious reflective and i wish everybody well in their futures too thank you for having me it's been great to be a

guest and be on your podcast