High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 66: A Brain-Friendly Workplace with Dr. Erika Garms, Speaker, Consultant & Author

Episode Date: August 30, 2016

A Brain-Friendly Workplace with Dr. Erika Garms, Speaker, Consultant & Author Are you always looking for ways to better understand yourself and others? Would you like to hear what tremendous impact a few big ideas from brain science hold for you? If you answered ‘yes’ to either of these, you’re going to be glad you’re here. Dr. Erika Garms is a workplace effectiveness expert with a gift for translating powerful scientific theory to everyday workplace practice. She has been a consultant with management consulting firms -- local startups to global. She has also been a teacher, professor, internal OD consultant, unit manager, and now runs her own firm. In this interview, Erika describes a brain-friendly workplace and includes three components: calm, confidence, and doing what you are good at. She describes the outcomes of developing a brain-friendly workplace and her model that guides her work with clients. Erika also talks about her powerful experience that lead her to study and understand the topic which included a heart attack and post-traumatic stress. You can find more about Erika and her company, Working Smarts, at workingsmarts.com and connect with her on Twitter @Erika_Garms. Her book, The Brain-Friendly Workplace: 5 Big Ideas from Neuroscience that Address Organizational Challenge” is also available on workingsmarts.com.

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Sindra Kampoff. And today I'm grateful that you're here, ready to listen to an interview with Dr. Erica Garms. Now, are you always looking for ways to better understand yourself and others? Would you like to hear what tremendous impact a few big ideas from brain science hold for you?

If you answered yes to either of these questions, you're going to be glad you're here, ready to listen to this interview with Dr. Garms. So Erica Garms is a workplace effectiveness expert with really a gift for translating powerful scientific theory to everyday workplace practice. And she's been a consultant with management consulting firms from local startups to global companies. She's also been a teacher, a professor, a unit manager, and now she runs her own firm. And there's many things that I enjoyed about this conversation with Dr. Garmes.

One of the things I really enjoyed and found fascinating was her description of the brain-friendly workplace and what that actually means and includes. She also describes in this interview the outcomes of developing a brain- friendly workplace and what can happen to the culture when you do so. And she describes her model for guiding her work with clients, which I thought was really interesting as well. To me, the most powerful thing that she really talked about was her own personal experience and what really led her to understanding and studying brain-friendly workplace.

And she experienced a heart attack, post-traumatic stress because of an experience she was in, and that guides her work today. She also has a book called The Brain-Friendly Workplace, Five Big Ideas from Neuroscience that Addresses Organizational Change. Hope you enjoy this interview with Dr. Garms. If you tune into this podcast regularly, there's two things that you can really help us do. Number one, if you could go over to iTunes and rate the podcast and give us a comment there, that would be incredibly powerful.

Every time you do that, it allows us to reach more and more people every single week. More people learn about the podcast just from your ratings. So that would be so powerful if you wouldn't mind to do that. And the second thing you can do is share this interview with two friends who are interested in developing a brain-friendly workplace. Okay, so without further ado, let's bring on Dr. Garms. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Cindra Kampoff, and today I'm excited to provide you an interview with Erica Garms.

So Erica, can you give us a little insight into your passion and what you do? Certainly. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here. I spread positivity and high performance in workplaces. That's what I do. I give live and online programs that show organizations how to think, manage, and innovate smarter. So my organization is called Working Smarts, and I do anything from one-hour workshops to six-month or longer culture change projects, all around introducing ideas on how to innovate and think and lead smarter. Nice, nice. And I like that you started with you spread positivity.

I can just, from interacting with you, Erica, I know that you just personally spread positivity. So tell us how you got to where you are in your career. Tell us a little bit about your background. Sure. Thank you. I started off as an elementary ed teacher. So my training because of where I went to college was actually a whole lot steeped in brain based learning theory as an elementary ed teacher. I went to school in Boulder, Colorado, and I didn't pick that school because it was a teacher training program that was based in brain based learning theory. I picked it for other reasons, primarily because it was in Boulder, and who wouldn't want to be in Boulder, Colorado, but came to realize later that it was really cutting edge and progressive in a lot of respects,

and that was one of those respects. And so right from the get-go, learned a whole lot about the brain and how to get people in a learning mindset and in a mindset that was ready to accept new information and able to take in new information and make change based on the way that it was presented to them. So from a number of years of elementary ed teaching, then got into adult education, started doing some teacher training in the summertime when I didn't have my kids in the classroom.

And that led me into the world of training and development in organizations and got deeper and deeper into training and development, then moved into organization development and consulting. And then sort of the top layer that I added on most recently was another postgraduate program that I did in neuroscience. And so I sort of returned to neuroscience, but this time making an application to those ideas and that research to the workplace. So in 2012, I founded my consulting firm, Working Smarts, as a global niche consulting, training, and speaking firm that helps, like I said, organizations work, manage, and innovate smarter. Nice, nice. So, you know, Erica, you have so many resources on your website, and it was really fun just to look at that a little bit more closely and what you've been working on. Tell us, you know, is there something that you're working on right now that is just really jazzing you or exciting you?

Yes, there is. And it kind of surprises me, myself, that I'm jazzed about this. But in one way, I'm not surprised. I'm building a learning portal, which is really fun because I'm able to take a lot of my live content, a lot of my live programs that are popular, and put them in an online format. And it's not boring talking head video or animated PowerPoint that we've all, you know, unfortunately had to sit through, I'm afraid. It is really cool, fresh, cutting edge online learning. So I'm putting that together and I'm enjoying the technical part of it, which is the surprising part. And I'm also working on a licensing model for a lot of

the programs, which will help workplaces get their hands on the material and the content more broadly. So yeah, those two things are going on. A lot of fun. Yeah. And what will your online learning portal look like? And just in case people who are listening are like, wow, that really intrigues me. I got to check it out. Tell us a little bit more about what the finished product is going to look like. Well, there's already a button on my website that says, click here to go to the learning portal. It just doesn't take you there yet. So in August, though, it will. It'll take you there and it'll have a giant picture of me and it'll say, Smarts or Working Smarts Learning Portal. And then it'll have a big icon for each of the courses that you can sample, that you can

go in and take a look at. And you'll be able to see what's in the course and what you get in each course, how long it is. All of them will be self-paced. Some will have communities within, so you can interact with each other. And some will have an aspect to them where I'm in there as well, interacting with you or facilitating discussion. Yeah. And who are those for? Like if, you know, if people are listening and want to check it out, would you recommend, you know, looking into that more? Yeah, well, many of them will for organization. So if you're an organization person, primarily, they're going to be for you, although there will be some that will be clearly best suited for a person who's really in charge of themselves. So even people who are leading a onesie, twosie kind of operation or solopreneurs are going to find a lot of value in these.

And the description will speak to you. So you'll be able to pick the ones that suit you based on the description. Nice, nice. You know, Erica, I know you have a book called The Brain-Friendly Workplace. So let's talk about just, you know, what you mean by that and tell us a little bit more about that. Sure. The way I define brain-friendly workplace is that they are places, workplaces, organizations where people at all levels of the organization, and I do mean all, from the CEO all the way down to the proverbial mailroom, feel calm, confident, and able to do what they're good at. Maybe not 100% of the time, but generally speaking, calm, confident, and able to do what they're good at. Maybe not 100% of the time, but generally speaking, calm, confident, and able to do what they're good at. And these are organizations where people are healthy, positive, and high performing. And they're using their brain's function to their advantage at work. So we're not doing things and we're not in a culture that has systems, practices, habits that cause

us to be hyper-competitive, that sabotage us, that work us counter to the way that brains processes naturally want to work. And I'm sure that already listeners are thinking of a ton of different ways that they've seen or experienced or are currently experiencing work that does work counter to the way that their brains naturally want to work. So I have a model that I use, that I've built, that underlies all of the courses that I teach, all the programs that I offer, that has four foundational principles. And these foundational principles really are major contributors to the brain-friendly workplace. And so the first one, just succinctly here, the first one is growing self-awareness. And that has a whole lot to do with mindset, mental state.

The second one is maximizing brain power. The third one is sharpening your perspective. And the fourth one is leveraging your impact. And they sort of move from internal focus to an external outward focus. And within each one of those, there are practices that I teach and then techniques. So, you know, regardless of what program you're in, you're going to learn about those principles and some practices and techniques that will help you get there. And they're all through the lens of simple applied neuroscience. Nice. Erica, there's so many follow up questions I could ask you. Here's a few that I want to just dive into a little bit more.

You know, so you're saying, you know, we use our brain function at work. What do you mean by that? Like, how can we best do that? Here's one example. I'll just give you one example. Meetings. How much time does the average person spend in meetings in an organization? And if you really took a look at what is happening in those meetings

and is that time spent productively? I can almost hear the listeners groans on the other end of the computer or the phones. So misuse of time or poor use of time spent in meetings, whether it's a two-person meeting or a 50-person meeting, that's a horrendous time sink and productivity sink right there. So when people learn how to best structure meeting time, and I'm not just talking about have a recorder, have a timekeeper, have a good, well-set agenda, but I'm really talking about thinking through ahead of time the thinking skills that need to happen and need to be employed during that meeting in order to have the best outcome, and then structuring the activities during the meeting to leverage those

thinking skills. That's important. And then to think through also some basic brain hygiene. Have people eaten before that meeting? If they haven't eaten before the meeting and the meeting is four hours long, they're going to run out of fuel. And we know the prefrontal cortex can't do its job. It can't think that long without being refueled. We need water. Are there pitchers of water on the table? In a four-hour meeting, we need water to refuel.

We need to stretch. Those sorts of things. So there are some basics and some structural things, some physical things that can really improve how we spend meeting time. And when we spend 40% of our work hours in meetings, that's an enormous leverage point for organizations. You know, Erica, you said brain friendly really means having been calm and a confident workplace where people are doing what they're good at. And all of those three things, you know, I think about the organizations I have worked in, I'm not sure I would explain or describe very many of them as calm, confident, you know, and what you're doing, what you're great at. So how do you promote that? And, you know, let's start there. How do you,

how do you promote that in terms of what you do and how you work with organizations or teams? Ideally, well, ideally, there's a there, they could take a self-assessment that would point out to them the areas where they're already strong and thriving. And then it would also point out to them the areas where they're least strong. How's that for positivity? I like that. And then from there, we could hone in on the areas where they are least strong and address some changes, some structural changes and some habit change and culture change. However, not all of my clients come to me saying, we'd like to do a self-assessment and take this holistic view. More often than not, there's a pain point. There's a problem. It's a

high turnover or a bullying leader is a problem and needs to be addressed, but nobody wants to address him or her. And so there's a painful spot in the organization. And that is what is the bleeding issue that comes to me. And then I try to broaden the perspective and then we uncover other issues that are more systemic and raise awareness. In general, it starts from raising awareness and then increasing learning and then culture shifts. Yeah, right. You can't just go into an organization and have a big culture shift right away. It takes a while and there's steps. Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, Erica, you've had just an incredible opportunity working with some of the best companies and consulting with them. What do you see that they do differently from others? That's a great question. In doing some of the research for the book, actually, that I wrote, I interviewed some of the Forbes best places to work. I contacted some of the people in charge of people. And in many cases, this is like the senior VP of organization effectiveness or HR or something like that. And I asked, what are you doing related to people and culture that puts you on this list year after year? I called the repeat A-listers. And what I heard, the words that I heard that rang to me connected to each other and to the mission and to the leadership and management. That's what separates them from those who didn't make it onto the best places to work list year after year.

And can you give us an example of maybe a company you wrote about or, you know, somebody that you've, a company you've seen where they have these attributes, they have an involvement and connection and they're connected with each other? Yeah, there was one, one that, you know, it's not a Google, it's not a Zappos or an Amazon or something that just comes to the top of your mind like many do. It was called DPW Construction, and this one had a really cool practice of involving employees in the changing of the culture and the modification of their leadership structure and practices. And once you are onboarded as a new employee, you're kept as sort of a cohort of new employees

and you're sought after by leadership as an advisory group ongoing. So you meet with a group of leaders periodically for your first several years, and you continue to have this relationship with kind of a partnered group of leaders. And that's a nice connection for them to have, for the new employees to have with each other as other new employees,

but also a fantastic group of mentor leaders. But just kind of a cross-organizational alliance was built there. And it built respect, it built communication, it built involvement and connection and this great two-way input. That's a great example. Erica, do you have any other suggestions that people could use to, you know, just continue to build that kind of culture and connection with each other? around employee engagement because most people are doing something around employee engagement. And it's really easy to do something that feels like the right thing and feels like a good effort that isn't actually moving the needle and isn't actually getting you anywhere because it's not going deep enough.

It's too surface. The effort is too surface, and it's just kind of a make-nice effort. And it's not getting to the belief and the values level of your employees and changing those, and that's where I work. Nice. Yeah, that's where the mindset level, that's where we need to monkey with employee change in order to get real culture change that's lasting. Otherwise, our employee engagement survey results are not going to do a

whole lot of shifting from year to year. Sure, sure. You know, Erica, what do you see that your clients really struggle with? Like what are their pain points and what do you just see generally kind of in the industry? Yeah, well, both with the organizations that I interviewed on that Best Places to Work list from Forbes and with my current clients now, they struggle with some of the same things. And some of these are how to navigate hierarchy, status, power differences. How do you work in an organization that does have hierarchy and status and power differences how do you do that gingerly how do you do that when you need that but uh do it in such a way that doesn't threaten people turn people off um leave a bad taste in their mouths

uh you know make enemies so people are uncomfortable with that and don't know how to do it well. So there's that. How to make, of course, how to make change work and stick. And still we have two-thirds of all change efforts in organizations failing to meet their intended goals, which is just unbelievable, outrageous, and has been the sticking statistic for decades. So it's broken, and it's not getting better. So there's that one. Retaining top performers, still a huge struggle for even the best organizations.

How to maintain individual and organizational focus is another huge one. And as my, I have a colleague, Jim Bone, who has coined a term organizational ADD. And he says, we really suffer from it. Not only individually, but organizationally, we have ADD. And it shows. It shows in the struggle that we have to meet our individual and organizational goals. Yeah, absolutely. So, um, one of the first things that you said, Erica was really intriguing in terms of, um, the hierarchy and just gingerly addressing that and, you know, learning to, um, navigate

the hierarchy. Do you have any suggestions for us on how to do that? And I know we could talk about that probably for a whole hour. Yes. Well, for your viewers, your viewers didn't, of course, see the model that I was referring to earlier. But in the underlying model that I use for all the programs, one of those core principles is about perspective. And in there, one of the pieces that I teach is a model, another model. And one of the driving needs that we all have, this is part of that model, is to understand how status works around us, how the status and the power is distributed in groups

around us and that we're a part of. And so this is something that I teach and preach to all of the groups and clients that I work with. And so, like I said earlier, the first step is awareness. So, yes, making this explicit and, you know, calling out the elephant in the room and making it okay to talk about the fact that hierarchy is there. It serves a purpose and it makes us uncomfortable and we're not good at navigating it. I think that's the first step. And then talking about the unintended consequences of having hierarchy and not being good at navigating it. That's another second good step. And then figuring out how to get better at it is the third step. So, you know, succinctly, there's a there's a three step beginning.

Yeah, there we go. That's good. That's good. You know, and Erica, I know you've shared with us your model, but is there another topic or maybe even within that model that you share with all of your clients? There is. So the one I was just talking about that status is a part of is called the picture model. And this is a model of human needs that drive all of our behavior. And it's rooted in neuroscience. It's kind of like a new and improved Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You remember that, everybody, from junior year, maybe of high school? Well, many of us don't know this, but since the 1950s, when Maslow came out with that, it's been updated. So now the expanding and newer model that's growing in acceptance worldwide is this new neuroscience-infused model, which mine draws from. It's called the picture model and the core needs that we all pull our behavior from,

draw our behavior from, are power, information, control, relatedness, that's about connection with each other, and rightness, which is about justice and fairness. And here I don't have time to go into great detail, but I do have some YouTube videos about that too. Anyway, I teach this as well. And when we understand that those driving needs really drive our behavior and other people's behavior, boy, is that an eye opener. It helps us stop blaming and shaming people and being angry. And it really helps conflict at, well in our personal lives, but certainly at work as well,

sort of fall away. It feels less personal when, when we have conflicts and more understandable and biological, which is kind of a relief for a lot of people. Yeah, absolutely. So if you, we wanted to learn more about that,

you'd encourage us to head over to your website or just go on YouTube and can we just search Erica Garms and find out. Do you remember what those videos are called in case people are interested in learning more? Yep, I've got two out there right now, and I'm pulling more and more of the picture model videos out there. Just look up picture. Erica Garms' PhD is the YouTube channel, and there are two that refer to the picture model. They're also on my website.

Okay, perfect, perfect. So Erica, you know, can you describe a technique, maybe a signature technique that you use to help your clients master and kind of learn how to use their brain in an effective way? Sure. So I am probably much like you, Sandra. I'm a firm believer that our language shapes our reality. Even the language that we use inside our own heads, it doesn't make its way out of our mouths. Yeah, absolutely.

So one thing that I use in all of my consulting and programs is just this simple technique. It sounds simple, but for some people it's really new, is to help people notice what language they're using, both inside their heads and then coming out of their mouths. And then, and this is another simple but really kind of monumental big step, to think about what impact that language is having, both on themselves and on the people around them. Maybe that's their family and their loved ones.

Maybe that's their work group. And if they're managers and leaders, another big layer, important layer, what impact is that having on their staff? And as a person of influence, modeling to the staff, that's really key. And then the last part of that is how might they want to choose to change that language in order to have the impact that they want to have. So we do have a choice in the language that we use inside our own heads and coming out of our mouths. And it does matter. And it's all about habits. So first it's the awareness and then it's making a choice and then it's changing our mouths. And it does matter. And it's all about habits. So it's first is the

awareness and making a choice and then it's changing our habits. Yeah. And you'd recommend changing your habits by just, you know, choosing to think differently. And then what would you tell us to do afterwards? Replace the negativity with something positive? Or what are your thoughts on that? Yes, and actually I can direct you to one of my favorite books. Charles Duhigg, D-U-H-I-G-G, wrote The Power of Habit, a big, bright yellow book. Yeah, it's one of my favorite books on habits, and it's a great first book about a habit formation and how it doesn't work to try to break a habit and how it does work. Nice formula in there as well.

Yeah, so what would you tell us in terms of our thinking patterns? What works and doesn't work? It doesn't work, says Duhigg in his research on the research. It doesn't work to expect that you can just break a habit cold turkey. What happens is you form the new habit and then reinforce, reinforce, reinforce, reinforce the new habit. And you've built the new neural connection there.

And then over time, the old neural connection that was the old habit starts to fizzle and fade. And then it will die. It will go away. But you can't just break the old one with nothing to replace it yet. Yes. In a nutshell. That's what it is. In a nutshell.

You know, when I saw, Erica, in your book, Brain-Friendly Workplace, you had a chapter on mindfulness. And so, you know, my sense is that could be another technique that you would encourage people to use in terms of, you know, using, getting their brain to work in an effective way. What's your thoughts on that? Definitely. I mean, for me, mindfulness is extremely practical. I can't think of an application. I can't think of a non-application for mindfulness. I can't think of a scenario where it wouldn't be useful to use mindfulness, you know, in making any sort of change in your personal or professional life. Bringing fuller awareness to a struggle or an issue or a challenge is really what it's all about for me.

And both psychologically, emotionally, cognitively, physically, and that's the way I describe mindfulness to workplace clients. That's a really palatable way that I like to describe it to them. I don't bring in the yoga mats and the incense when I'm talking about mindfulness with my clients. Sure, sure. It's more of an awareness. Yes, yes. Full awareness and acceptance of the current physical and emotional state. Yep. Centering. Excellent. So Erica, let's talk about yourself as a high performer a little bit and tell us why you do

what you do. You know, we, we believe here at the High Performance Mindset that keeping that front and center is really important to keep us motivated and excited and passionate so we can serve people, you know, to our fullest extent. So tell us why you do what you do. I love that about you and your work. And I love the question as well. So and there is a why. And it's pretty personal, as it is with many of your guests. I'm a survivor of some really pretty miserable work cultures.

And maybe not so surprising. And I have been a classic target of a bully boss. And, you know, bullying, as you as you may imagine, folks, is not particularly brain friendly. I ended up having a heart attack and PTSD. And and there's another great application for mindfulness. And mindfulness was one of the techniques that I used to get through PTSD. I'm a very high achiever, super eager learner, eternal optimist. I discovered that some of those traits were not popular in many workplaces,

and I felt like I had to hide those. I don't want to have to hide those. I started my own company, so I didn't have to hide those. So now I'm on a crusade to support, bring out eagerness and optimism and smarts and encouraging smarty pants, making smarty pants not a bad condescending term. I want to revel in being smarty pants at work and making that a good term, not a derogatory term, and bringing out high achievement in organizations. Nice. Wow, that's really personal, Erica.

Yeah. Yeah, I appreciate you shared that with us. You know, what was your journey in terms of just recovering from your heart attack? How long ago was that? And, you know, just what you went through and what's your journey been in terms of going from that to starting your company? That was about four and a half years ago. And it was interesting. Starting my own company was something that I had had in the back of my mind

for about a decade and I'd had these inklings, you know, sort of tickling the back of my brain for that long and I flirted with the idea a number of different times but the timing wasn't right. You know, this was not in place yet or that wasn't in place or the kids were not old enough and not in kindergarten yet or all these reasons were keeping me from it. And then it was as if the entire universe just said, you know, brick over the head,

hello, listen up. This is the time you shall listen. So literally lying in the hospital bed just the morning after having the heart attack, it was crystal clear what my next move was going to be. So that was on a Friday. And on Monday, it was my decision that I would leave that job and start my own company. And it wasn't much of a decision. It was just obvious that that was the next move. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I think that's a great example of how we can go through

something so difficult, but it makes us stronger in the end. And, you know, I usually describe like life happens for us, not to us. Like there, there's reasons that these difficult things happen. You wouldn't be, you know, uh, leading this amazing organization and, um, positively impacting the people that you do today without that. So how, how does your, um, you're just going through that. What, what's your, what's your perspective on that experience and how it's helped you today. It might sound, you know, at the risk of sounding a little bit too spiritual, I feel like I can spot people that I work with. I have a sixth sense about people who are in similar situations, whether they're employees, staff, or whether they're bosses. And I can feel, I can sense when they're near the end of their rope, whether they're employees, staff, or whether they're bosses. And I can feel, I can sense when they're near the end of their rope,

whether they're being bullied or whether they're bullies, and may not see that in themselves. And I have a new softness about a new understanding and also a new commitment to helping that situation get better. Absolutely. And you're incredibly passionate about it and dedicated your life to it. So, Erica, tell us about a time that I would say you failed. Maybe you don't use that word, right? But I'd really love to hear about a time that didn't go so great for you and what you learned from it with the idea that, right, like nobody's perfect.

We all fail. But, you know, just to emphasize the importance of what you can learn from things that don't go so well. So tell us about a time and what you learned from it and what we can learn from your failure. Sure. So it might sound silly, but it really stands out in my memory for whatever reason. So I took a course once with my, at the time, my very serious boyfriend. And as it turned out, he was far more talented than I in the subject matter.

And I thought we were going in with pretty equal talent. And it was really clear really soon that he was way, way beyond me in the talent department in this class. And he bonded with the professor faster. He could show off. He was showing off. And it was just clearly demonstrated that he was far beyond me and i just sort of sank into my chair and wanted to blend into the wall

on day two so he aced it and i struggled the entire term and and it was it was a rough six months and it made me doubt myself it made me doubt myself. It made me doubt my capacity, my abilities. But in the end, the lesson for me was that the best measure of my learning is not to compare me with somebody else. And I've taken that all the way forward to now. My best measure of my progress as a business person or as an evolving human being is not to compare me to somebody else, but to compare the present me with the past me. Today's me with yesterday's me. And am I happy with that and satisfied with that? And if so, then I'm pleased. Yeah, that's really good.

Yeah, and I think from what I've seen in just working with teams and a lot of athletes and high performers, I think we can easily get caught up in comparing ourselves to other people and our journey to theirs. But, you know, what we do is we compare like, you know, the best attribute of somebody else to our worst attribute. We don't compare ourselves very, very effectively. I was did you I don't know if you watched the Olympics last night, but I watched Michael Phelps. And did you see the South African? He was so into what Michael Phelps was doing.

And I saw a picture, even in the race, he was looking at Michael Phelps. And, you know, we have no idea what was going on in his mind. But, you know, when I was just watching, I was like, wow, he's so wrapped up into another person instead of being his best version of himself and dominating the race. And he didn't do so well. So there's so many applications to what you said in terms of learning and high performance and and also just being happy while you're going on the journey. Because when you're comparing yourself to someone else, you know, you're not happy about it. No, and you're not fully living your life in the moment either, like you said. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Good stuff, good stuff.

So, Erica, tell us about an aha moment that you've had. You know, something that just really opened you up to something about yourself or about the world. Yeah, that was a fun question to think about. I worked with a coach once who asked me to draw out a lifeline on a piece of paper, to draw a line across a piece of paper and make some life, a line across a piece of paper and, you know, make some tick marks for the years that, um, elapsed. And then, uh, on the top half of the line to, to, um, note the positive events that happened and the higher the, the event, the more positive it was.

And then on the bottom half of the line, make a mark for the negative or downer kinds of events that happened. And what I saw was patterns that emerged, and it was fascinating to see cycles. And what came out of that was really clear cycles of growth and stagnation. And that really helped me not only see the cycles, but accept that I have a really strong need for lots of movement and action and change. And that I could choose to leverage that and not see that as a character flaw or a liability. I could work with it. Yeah, yeah. And how might you do that? Or how did you learn to do that, work with it. Yeah. Yeah. And how might you do that? Or how did you learn to do that?

Work with it and use it as leverage? When I know that I'm coming down out of a cycle of high growth or change to accept that and not fight it or get down on myself, but to almost see it as a recuperation and rest, rest time and let that happen and almost sort of schedule that in. Change the activity flow and change the kinds of things that I'm doing for that period of time, knowing that another upswing is going to happen.

And when that happens, then I ramp up activity, then knowing that activity will increase and the pace will increase. I have done something similar. I was in a workshop actually last year. I presented at the Athletic Directors Conference and I stuck around for the keynote. And he had us do something similar. It was the author of Inside Coaching. And it was really fascinating.

And we talked to the people about it at our roundtable. So we drew our timeline and the highs and the lows. So, you know, yeah, I think it's a great practice to learn more and gain self-awareness, which is part of your model. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So, Erica, let's go to the top 10 traits of high performers. And if anybody's interested in getting this list, you can go over to my website at drcindra.com. And we were talking before we recorded how your

model and the top 10 traits are very similar. So I think that's cool. But which of these traits do you think that you exhibit the most, Erica? It's pretty funny because you just said it. Number four, a high self-awareness. Yeah. And why would you describe yourself as highly self-aware? Tell us about that. For better or for worse, over the years, because of life, because of good things and bad, I have certainly developed a high in-tuneness with my thoughts, emotions, and actions, which is the way you describe it, and understand that I can master those aspects of me and nobody else is. Yeah.

And I like that. Yeah, me too. You're right. Right. And I do think that the highest level of performers have a keen sense of self-awareness. They know, you know, a lot about themselves and when they're at their best, when they're not. And then they use the strategies and techniques that you talk about, you know, to get there. So which of these traits would you say you're still working on? And I ask you that question, Erica, just,

just with the idea that we're all a work in progress and, you know, it's really difficult to, to be high, a 10 out of 10 on all of these. So what do you think? Well, this was not difficult for me either because number five, controlling the controllables is something I still work hard on and is tough. Having control over what I can't control is a struggle. I want to change what I can't control is, is, it's a struggle. I want to change what I can't change sometimes. Truth be told. It's frustrating. It is a struggle. Yeah. It's a, you know, a grouchy spouse on occasion or, you know, a policy that I don't like in a store or that we don't quite have world peace yet or whatever. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

And yesterday I was presenting to a group of about 150 teachers, and we were talking about control the controllables, and we wrote all the things that we can't control around the circle. And then inside the circle we wrote what we can control. But the stuff outside doesn't lead to high performance. It doesn't lead to us being at our best, And we, we do waste a lot of time, but it's really easy to get sucked into how terrible the weather is or the presidential race or blah,

blah, blah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Erica, let's go to the speed round. Well,

first of all, I wanted to say thank you so much for just sharing that and being vulnerable and sharing those stories with us and again if anybody wants to head over to DrCindraGamp.com to get the top 10 traits you can do that so let's go to the speed round

Erica if there is a book or a resource that you could recommend for the listeners what would you be and why did you choose it? I love Rick Hansen's book called buddha's brain nice yeah so it's um buddha's brain the practical neuroscience of happiness love and wisdom from 2009 and it's fabulous what do you love about it yeah what do you love about it it's um it's beautifully written.

It lay language with just a little sprinkling of theoretical language for those who like that. Practical in the sense that he, Rick Hansen, applies neuroscience to everyday life and even integrates diet changes into ways to make yourself more happy, find more love and be more wise. Excellent. Yeah. Yeah. And Erica, what is the best advice you've ever received? That almost everyone is doing the best they know how. It just really helps me to stay out of being judgmental or evaluating other people's behavior,

thinking that I know why they're doing things that are making a judgment about their work as a human. Yeah, absolutely. For sure. So important. So good. What's a success quote you live by and how might it apply to you or us? This is a Rick Hansen quote, actually, from Buddha's brain, that he has in Buddha's brain.

If you can change your brain, you can change your life. Excellent. If you can change your brain, you can change your life. How does that apply to us or you? You change your thoughts, you're able to change your behavior, your habits, and certainly your performance and then your success. Yeah. So it starts with your brain. Excellent. So what advice, the final advice, Erica, what advice do you have for those high performers who are listening? And to me, what really high performance means is just that you're working

to reach your individual potential and being the best version of you. You're not comparing yourself to others. So what advice do you have for those people who are listening? Boy, I would just say revel in your talent because it serves you and it has the potential to touch others. And please don't hide it. If you're a smarty pants in any respect, whether that's physical or intellectual or emotional, if you're a smarty pants, consider that a positive and revel in it. The world needs that. Love it, Erica.

So how can the listeners reach out to you? What's the best ways to find out more about your work and what you do and your speaking and your consulting? Tell us more about how to do that. Sure. Please go to the website. And the website is www.workingsmarts.com. And then if you want to reach out to me directly, you can certainly email me. I'm at Erica, with a K, at ericagarms.com.

And I can also give you my phone number. Erica, are you on Twitter or social media or anything like that? I am. I am on LinkedIn and Twitter and Facebook and Google Plus, and all of those social media icons are on the homepage of the website. You can click on them. Excellent. Excellent. We usually promote and connect a lot on Twitter with the podcast. So what's your Twitter handle so we can reach out to you?

It's at Erica underscore Garms. Excellent. Erica, I want to thank you so much for your time and your energy and positively impacting thousands of people today with your message. There are so many positive things and helpful things that you said today. I love your definition of the brain-friendly workplace and just having a calm and confident atmosphere where people can be focused on what they're great at. Your model was really interesting and fascinating in the different four parts of that.

And I loved how you really just promoted self-awareness today and helping us just learn more about who we are and understand our, or just pay attention to our thoughts and our language, what we say to others. And I think that's such an important part of just being the best version of ourselves. And I love your final message about reveling in your talents and not hiding whoever you are.

So Erica, thank you so much for your time and your energy today. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset. If you liked today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend and join the conversation on Twitter at Mentally Underscore Strong.

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