High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 679: Dancing through the Discomfort, Change, and the Messy Middle with Anne Bonney, Keynote Speaker and Change Expert

Episode Date: May 20, 2025

I’m thrilled to bring you a high-energy, insight-packed conversation with the dynamic and fearless Anne Bonney. After moving 27 times, attending 13 different schools, living on four continents, and navigating six distinct careers, Anne has turned change into her comfort zone.  She’s a keynote speaker, leadership trainer, and emotional intelligence expert who helps individuals and organizations embrace discomfort, lead courageously, and ignite positive momentum in their teams. In this episode, Anne shares her personal journey of mastering change, along with actionable strategies to lead through transition, elevate emotional intelligence, and conquer tough conversations.  How to turn discomfort into a leadership advantage The three steps every leader needs to navigate change What emotionally intelligent leadership looks like during tough transitions How to handle difficult conversations without avoiding or escalating them Ways to build a fired-up team culture that performs under pressure Anne’s energy is contagious, her insights are practical, and her message is clear—growth comes when we get uncomfortable on purpose. HIGH PERFORMANCE MINDSET SHOWNOTES FOR THIS EPISODE CONNECT WITH ANNE HERE REQUEST A FREE MENTAL BREAKTHROUGH CALL WITH DR. CINDRA AND/OR HER TEAM TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE MENTALLY STRONG INSTITUTE Love the show? Rate and review the show for Cindra to mention you on the next episode.  

Welcome back to the High Performance Mindset podcast. This is your host, Dr. Cindra Kamboff, and thank you so much for joining me here today for episode 679. I am grateful that you are here, and I'm thrilled to bring you a high energy, insightful packed conversation with a dynamic and fearless Anne Bonny.

I met Anne through our involvement with the National Speakers Association. I've been on the same stage as her on different speaker showcases, and I love her energy and passion, and I know you're going to love this episode. After moving 27 times, attending 13 different schools, living on four continents, and navigating six distinct careers, Anne has turned change into her comfort zone. She's a keynote speaker, a leadership trainer, and an emotional intelligence expert

who helps individuals and organizations embrace discomfort. She helps them lead courageously and ignite their positive momentum within their teams. In this episode, Anne shares her personal journey of mastering change, along with real tangible actionable steps. In this episode, Anne shares her personal journey of mastering change along with actionable strategies and tips to help you lead through transition, elevate your emotional intelligence

and conquer tough conversations. If you've ever felt stuck in the chaos of change or wanting things to not change or wanting to create a more energized and engaged culture, this episode is for you. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset. And I'm so excited to have you here today. It's my tail right now. I know you. We're going to be helping people embrace change and have difficult conversations today.

And I think about what value and amazing value that this interview is going to be because I think it's really difficult to embrace change and have challenging conversations. So we've gotten to know each other through the National Speakers Association and we became certified speaking professionals together on the same day. So that was exciting. And just tell us first, Ann, how in the world did you start speaking and really developing your expert status on change of all things?

Right, let's do the uncomfortable stuff. That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, so I quit my job. I had a big fat New York City job that I hated and I quit it and got a business card that said I was a speaker. And I'm only half joking. I mean, that's literally what I did. It was a level of naive arrogance that I look back on and go, wow, you just did that.

You moved into your parents' basement and let's see if we can do this. But I was a performer my whole life. I taught group exercise. I trained marine mammals and birds of prey, so I performed with them as part of my job. So the stage is a comfortable place for me. You know, most people would prefer not to public speak. It is my jam.

And then when it comes to change, you know, I've dealt with a lot of change in my life. We've moved a ton. You know, when I got home spring of second grade, my parents said we're moving to Saudi Arabia. And I had no idea what that meant at the time, but it meant, you know, I don't speak the language, new culture, new religious sort of, you know, environment and just a completely different place. We lived there for two years, a year in Egypt, four years in Greece. So I dealt with a lot of change. And when I started my speaking business,

I was under the old like, oh yeah, I can speak on that. Oh sure, I can speak on that. Oh sure, and I drove myself nuts. And finally I was in the shower one day and I was like, okay, what do I want to speak on? And I'm like, Anne, you know change. You know it, you've experienced it, you've lived through it, you've benefited from it.

And I think that we can bring some normalization to the discomfort around it. So let's see what we can do. Yes, Anne, you've moved 27 times, attended 13 different, 28, okay, 28, attended 13 different schools from kindergarten to your masters, lived on four continents, six distinct and successful careers. So I think what's amazing about that is just even being able to be flexible and adaptable,

like moving 28 times. You learn something, you learn so much about being resilient and picking yourself back up and being uncomfortable. What do you think is the biggest lesson you learned just being so involved in change as you were growing up? I heard a quote recently that was, and I'm going to butcher it so I'm not going to attribute it. But the quote said something to the degree of resistance to change is an

inability to see an alternative positive outcome. Okay. And I think by going through so much change as a kid, I learned to let go of what I loved and knowing that there was something good in the next spot too. We moved so much, I made friends, and then we moved a year later. And I made friends and I got used to a new house and then we moved a year later. And so it became the benefit of impermanence and the beauty of the next step. I think about people that I work with and as speakers, you know, some people,

some of the people will hire me even to sit when they're going through change. Like for example, we're doing this new software change and people need to be really open to it or they need to have the mindset to embrace it. And I like what you said about looking for something good in the future and having like this positive hope for the future.

Yeah, tell us a little bit about, what do you think generally happens to people when they resist change? And why do you think we resist change? Well, I mean, there's a voice of doubt in our head telling us all the things that are gonna go wrong, all the things we've messed up in the past, all the things everybody else has messed up in the past, all the ways that it's

gone absolutely terribly, and a bunch of new ones that could happen in the future. Our brains are really good at that, and it's this self-protective mechanism, right? Our brain, any stress could be potential mortal danger to our brain. And so when we recognize that that voice of doubt is nearly that protective voice, we're able to say, yes, brain, thank you. I get that you're trying to keep you alive. And what if this goes right? What if this goes wrong? And I love that question because it opens us up to other possible positive outcomes

that our voice of doubt doesn't bring to the forefront. So I call it sassy backtalk in my book. And I talked to a double Ironman finisher who's like a seven time double Ironman finisher. And he said, I learned to talk to myself rather than listen to myself. And I think that nails it, right? We gotta have a conversation with that voice of doubt and say, what if this goes well? I love it. I love what you said about what if this goes well

and like really talking to yourself powerfully. And I think it's hard when we're going through change to catch ourselves that we might be in this default negative mindset instead of really noticing and noticing our thoughts and then talking to ourselves really powerfully, right? Talking, not just listening to ourselves. When you think about, when you're hired as a speaker,

what types of change do people go through in an organization and tell us a bit about what you've seen and why what we're talking about really matters to embrace change. Yeah. I think these days more than any other time, there is such incredible change happening in the world. Organizations obviously, they return to work.

Do we work hybrid? How do we work hybrid? Do we come into the office? Are we going to lose people? What do we do about that? Is a huge change as people try to wrap their minds around how do we run our business now based on the world? How do we interact talent? How do we keep talent? How do we engage talent? Another huge, we've got to change the way the workplace is run so we can keep the good people.

Technological upgrades, a lot of companies who have been just kind of scooting along with the old system or no system are suddenly realizing we can't do that anymore. And there's a lot of veterans and legacy talent that's like, I don't want to do this job with a computer or with a different system. And there's so much technological resistance there. How we communicate with each other, how we interact with each other is another big one. And then personal changes, the world is changing. We just had an administration change, and no matter how you feel about that, things are changing. So that's going on in our personal lives at home. So this kind of builds this, and of course over the last four years, the world is just a different

place. So this is what I'm seeing and recognizing that that's a lot. And so if you're feeling a little overwhelmed, welcome, you're in the right place. Like your brain's doing its job. Now we've got to figure out how do we keep moving despite all of that change fatigue. So one of the things, Ann, that I want to dive into is you have three steps to address change. Tell us what those three steps are and why is it really important for us

to kind of follow your three-step process. Yeah, if we're going to move through this discomfort, it helps to have a little easy to remember system, right? Problem, play it, punch it. That's the three steps. Problem? Three P's. Three P's, right?

I like it. Acknowledge. And I'm not saying what's the problem we need to solve, because that's what we rush to. What I want you to pause in, what is my problem? Where is the challenge? Where's the resistance coming from? And one of the things we need to recognize is that seemingly conflicting emotions can exist at the same time. We can be frustrated about a change, but no, it's a good idea. We can be scared about a change and be completely on board. And so

by acknowledging all the feelings we have about a change or something that's gone differently or something that's unfamiliar, it reduces the power of those feelings that don't feel so good. Because we're saying, okay, yeah, I'm frustrated about this. I don't like this. I don't want to have to spend three days in a training class and then bumbled through trying to learn a new computer system while trying to still help all our clients. And I know in the long run, it's going to be a good idea. When we say that it clears up our head to say, okay, cool.

I don't like it. What now do I have control of? Which is a key question when it comes to resilience, when it comes to self-efficacy, and your ability to actually do something to make your own life better. We've gotta say, what can I control? Yeah, so many things you can't.

Right. So then we move on to the plan. What are we gonna do? And this is the point where we need to recognize our brain's desire to rush to certainty, especially for those of us who are more experienced on this planet. We've seen a lot, we've done a lot, and sometimes we feel like I've got the answers, right? And so when we're faced with a challenge, our brain's like, oh, I know this one, do this. But often that's the right solution for yesterday's problem, but not today's.

And so I always encourage people to ask themselves in this part, not what should I do, but what else could I do? Or how else could I solve this? Because that triggers your brain to start getting creative and say, okay, well, we could do this, we could do this, we could do this, we could do this, or we could do this thing we did yesterday. Now you've got a menu to choose from to really solve today's problem with today's solution

rather than just going on habit, which is a lot more comfortable. Absolutely. So those are the first two. You want me to keep going? Yeah, keep going. I want to hear about Punch It. Punch It, absolutely. So that's the first two. You want me to keep going? Yeah, keep going. I want to hear about Punch It. Punch It, Margaret? So I'll just go ahead and tell you the story real quick. Margaret was my grandma.

We called her Grand Peggy, but her name was Margaret Bonnie, as she drove really slowly. And one day, as we were driving through a four-way stop, she's still going one and a half miles an hour when we're halfway through the intersection. My brother turns to her and yells, punch it, Margaret. When we're in what I call hesitation nation, because I can't say analysis paralysis right without extreme thought, I call it hesitation, when we're so being so cautious, sometimes we need a shove. We need something to give us that three seconds of courage to take the risk of action. Because if we're just standing on the porch of the old comfort zone, we're just swirling around in anxiety and fear and all those thoughts about everything that's

going to go wrong. When we're moving, or as I call it, dancing in the discomfort zone, we're learning. We're making moves and we're building our self-efficacy, which is the belief that we can do something that actually matters. You know, like when our actions make a difference, rather than just being hopeless and riding around on the wrecking ball of light, running into things, you know?

We can actually do something. And that is a huge key to resilience. Can I do something to make this better? But sometimes we need that shove to get us moving because it's scary. And so, punch it, Margaret. It's always, especially going into networking events, I always do that. I'll sit in the car going,

I could just go home. I could zoom into something and call it networking. And I'm like, no, Ann, you want to go to this, pay the $25, punch it, Margaret. And that just gets me out of the car and gets me into motion. Yeah, I love it. I wondered why you like punch it, right? Because it's so powerful. And you're right that most people kind of, they might decide what they're going to do, but then him and Ra, and then they let the anxiety and fear, and then they don't take action. Hi, this is Syndra Kamboff, and thanks for listening to the High Performance Mindset.

Did you know that the ideas we share in the show are things we actually specialize in implementing? If you want to become mentally stronger, lead your team more effectively, and get to your goals quicker. Visit freementalbreakthroughcall.com to sign up for your free mental breakthrough call with one of our certified coaches. Again, that's freementalbreakthroughcall.com to sign up for your free call. Talk to you soon. I would just, as I'm listening to you and I'm thinking about leaders and how leaders

can help their teams embrace change. My husband is a school principal and they are transitioning to what's called a STEAM school, which is like a STEM school plus arts. I didn't even know it was called STEAM. So they're transitioning to a STEM school, which is a big change for everybody. They're learning to teach a different way next year. And so we've been talking a lot about just helping teachers and people embrace change because it will be different, right? So what advice might you give leaders to help leaders get

everybody on board with change? Yeah. So somebody, when I worked at Under Armour, early days, I was there in 2002, I started as employee number 80. And we had a big technological change about a year or two in and everybody was, you know, oh, they announced it at this big company meeting and we're like, oh my God, this is going to be terrible. Everybody's freaking out. My boss pulls our department into a room and said, all right, everybody complain. And it was like crickets. We're all looking at each other like, are you going to complain? I'm not going to complain. And what he was trying to get us to do was that first P, acknowledge the challenge. What do you think's

going to go wrong? What are you worried about? And he wanted us to have an appropriate outlet for our fears and our complaints. So by acknowledging that, he started to create a culture of open communication about our concerns, which opened up a dialogue that maybe this plan isn't perfect. And we need everybody engaged in this, but by doing that, he said, I care about each of you and all of your part in this. He essentially empowered us or deputized us to be an active participant in the change. Ever since then, I'm like, that is just such a good way to get everybody involved. People when they're

involved in decision-making and solution creation, they are more bought in and you're more likely to get that engagement. And so have the conversations. How can we do this? What ideas do you have? What's working for you? What's not working for you? Rather than hearing it as a lecture, when we hear it as a discussion amongst the whole team, we now feel like we have the resources to be able to move through this, which is a common concern people have. This company's not going to give me the resources to be able to teach this new STEAM thing, you know? Right.

Right. Now we can have a discussion and I'm comfortable saying, hey, Syndra, what are you doing about this? Because I don't know what to do, rather than sitting in my office saying, this is stupid. This isn't how I used to do it for the last 30 years, I hate this. Right, absolutely. Well, I appreciate what you said about

being an active participant in change, and I think that means that the leader is open to, needs to be open to feedback and dialogue and hearing what's being said and hearing the concerns. And so many times, maybe leaders, that's uncomfortable for leaders. Yeah, totally. You know, and so any thoughts on how to regulate emotions

or like what advice would you give for a leader so that they are, you know, being their best in moments of change? Because their energy is contagious too. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and this is the thing, we have so much social programming to be positive, to look on the bright side, look forward. And sometimes we do need to pause for a second

complaint and acknowledge those negative feelings. I liken it to smashy lava down in a volcano. It works for so long. Right? Yeah. So by giving that constructive outlet, that's the word I was trying to think of, by giving that constructive outlet, recognizing as the leader, this is an important part of this process. We're not going to stay here for days and days and weeks and weeks. We're going to say, okay, cool. Now that we've recognized that this is going to be hard, what can we do? The key for the leader is the self-awareness of our desire to A, solve things, because

no leader ends up in a leadership position because they let other people do things. Right? We're solvers, and it's a very good thing. And we need to recognize that other people are too, and when they're involved in it, they're going to be more engaged in being an active participant in it, which is what we want. Right? So having that self participant in it, which is what we want. So having that self-awareness, I want to solve this. I want to tell them what we're going to do and how we're going to fix this, but I need

to involve them in it. And then also as a leader, being open to other ideas and recognizing as the leader, what is the end result I need to get to? Because if we get there, I don't care how we get there, as long as we get to that end result, and if it's their idea that gets us there, hallelujah. Even if it's different than mine, it's better because they're going to be bonding it. So those, I think, are two big self-awareness things leaders need to have to be able to have these conversations.

You're right. It's hard. It is hard. And I think about sometimes when there's change happening, there's a lot of these kind of water cooler conversations where people go and then they create drama and how much time is lost in workplace drama. I think of Cy Wakeman's research and doesn't she say like eight hours a week or something? It's a lot. But you know, do you have any thoughts? I know that's one of the things you talk about is like how to reduce these water cooler to kind of talk, which negatively influences attitudes in the workplace.

Yeah. I mean, and this is a deep, deep seated issue that has so many arms to it. And one of the things that I talk about in leadership training is, hey, when we're dealing with other humans, we can only control what we do. I can't control what anybody else does. Some people thrive on that drum. But the way I, the one thing I can control

is what my boss did at Under Armour. It's saying, all right, I wanna give you all a constructive outlet for some of the negative feelings because I recognize they're there and creating that safe opportunity to share that stuff with the forward thinking, with the solution mindset, not a complaining mindset. Let's complain and then let's talk about, okay, what can we do about that? Or is that something we just need to deal with because the benefits outweigh the negative?

So having that conversation and opening up that dialogue and making it okay to not be okay, and making it okay to have a problem with this. Great, let's talk about it. If I can be open to that, they're more likely to come to me with challenges down the road, with possible solutions down the road.

You've got a much more engaged group that's less likely to be behind your back going, I can't get down there. It's amazing the things people make up when they don't have all the information. And that's the other thing. Make sure that you are transparent and they know and can trust that you're going to give them the information when you have it and when you can't. Because if they're worried that they're not getting the information they need, they're going to go make things up and talk behind the back.

So build that trust and be that trustworthy communicator. You talk about various different topics. One is change, but a second one is, you know, how do you continue to have challenging conversations? And I think about how that's so connected to change because people sometimes don't want to have challenging conversations because it's going to lead to change. Let's say if I need to fire somebody on my staff or I need to give someone really tough feedback, people, what I find is they don't love those

conversations and so they avoid those conversations and that impacts productivity and performance in the workplace and just culture and happiness and you know, and so when we avoid that, what have you found on what gets in the way of people like embracing having challenging conversations? Like why do you think people don't move forward with challenging conversations even when they know they need to? Well, first of all, we don't like to be uncomfortable. I just want to hold hands and sing kumbaya. Can't we all just get along? It's a lot more comfortable. And the challenge of a tough conversation is I don't know how the other person's gonna react. I have no idea.

So what I always tell people is, is A, recognize that. Like, I need to be ready for an open dialogue where they have a part in the conversation. I walk in and lecture them, I'm gonna lose them right away. And so step number one in the preparation for these tough conversations is, prepare for a two-way dialogue. Which means, I need to be curious. Yes. Right? I need to be curious about what's your side. I need to walk in

questioning my own assumptions. Right? Somebody's late to meetings all the time. I assume they don't care and they don't like this client and they don't want to be a part of this. But those aren't the facts I know. The facts I know is they're coming too late to meetings. And so I need to walk into that conversation curious that they may have an explanation that's different than the assumption I jumped to. So I think that's the first step. And somebody once said, think about calling them in versus calling them out. And so the way I like to say it is, let me call them into a collaborative conversation

rather than calling them out and being all finger pointy and accusing them of doing something bad. Let's have a collaborative conversation. Here's the problem. And I know there's a lot I don't know, so I'd love to hear your side. And let's see if we can figure out a way to solve this." That changes the dynamic.

I'm not the principal at a school wagging the finger anymore. Say your husband does that. That's what we think about, right? We think about somebody wagging their finger ass. We're not that person. We're two professional adults having a conversation trying to figure out how do we work best together in the workplace? Or you're fired, I'm sorry, you know, and then we've got to build in the empathy. That's a totally different conversation. Yeah, no doubt. Well, do you have anything that

we can follow or a process to have the hard conversations? I like what you're saying about preparing and being ready to have it as a two-way dialogue and being curious, because usually it's our assumptions, right? That's not always accurate. I had this eighth grade teacher once to one time tell us, like, assumptions stands for making an ass out of you and me or something, and we all like died, you know,

because he said a bit of, no, exactly. But so I like the preparation what do we do when we're in the conversation is there anything you would tell us to do or follow yeah no because once you're in it you have to be in it and you can't be thinking okay I need to do the crate model C is for you know challenge there a subject no you really need to be present and that's why the preparation is so important. Preparing. I like to write my opening line. It always feels so weird.

And so like I'm literally scripting what I'm going to say. Now don't take it in with you because you're not going to take a paper in and read it. Sandra, I want to talk to you because you know, like you're not going to read it when you are in arm. But having thought about how am I going to start this conversation? Because when you're nervous, going into it, it's the worst part right before it starts. If you're trying to improvise at that point, your brain is not functioning for intelligent thought at that moment. It is functioning for survival. So your brain's yelling, punch, run, punch, run. And that doesn't help us have a constructive conversation, right? So if I think beforehand exactly what words I'm going to use and what words I'm not going to use, when I'm in the moment, I'm much more likely to come out with an intelligent, empathetic, welcoming into

a two-way dialogue versus sounding like I'm attacking them. So I like to script my opening line. I also like to prepare my emotions because when we're in the moment, it's hard to think about a model. It's hard. Yes, there's a, you know, yeah, it's hard. So write about what do, what am I likely to feel? Anger and frustration, annoyed, you know, admit it. And then say, what do I usually do as a result of that emotion that could negatively impact this conversation. All right, I usually get annoyed. I start rolling my eyes and I stop listening and start lecturing.

Okay, cool. How am I going to do something different in order to have a constructive two-way dialogue? And that is how we boost up our emotional intelligence to be able to be present in the room and truly listen to the other person and actually give them a chance at having an intelligent dialogue with you. It is hard. You're gonna mess it up a lot of times,

but go through this process each time so you can just get better and better at this. Yeah, and I think about the types of challenging conversations people have to have. And so as I'm listening, I'm thinking about, you know, it could be a parent having to give feedback or setting boundaries for their son or daughter. It could be- Or their spouse. Or their spouse. Yeah.

It could be performance feedback. It could be just something that is not productive to workplace culture. Right? When you think of how you define challenging conversations, how do you define it? And then I'm just kind of curious, you know, how should we look at those challenging conversations? Is there a viewpoint or anything that might be helpful? Yeah, sure. Challenging conversations, any conversation you don't want to have.

That's uncomfortable. And that is going to be different for a lot of different people, because what we find uncomfortable, what we've got experience with, also who you're talking to. I might be super comfortable having a tough conversation and giving you feedback, but not my boss. So there are so many factors there, but the thing that I like to do is think to myself, okay, why do I want to have this conversation? What am I trying to achieve here? Because that can help you stay the course and open you up to say, okay, this is what I'm trying to achieve. When stuff starts to go off the rails in the conversation, like they start getting defensive or you do something you don't need to, coming back to that, what am I trying to achieve? Why are we doing this terrible, uncomfortable thing?

Can help you redirect the conversation and say, Cinder, I'm so sorry. I think I just said something that didn't come out the right way. What I'm trying to get to is this point, and I really want to work with you on this, and I'm sorry that just came out all messed up, but being able to be in that humble moment to rescue the conversation if you need to, and knowing why you're having the conversation is really important. And that's an important thing, and it's not as easy as it sounds. Sure. Because oftentimes, a smaller thing that I'm trying to achieve is getting to a bigger piece, right, of us working better together, of us being able to serve this client better,

of us being able to parent better, whatever it is, you know? But having that bigger piece opens you up to their solutions as well, which is important. I think about what you said about the importance of having empathy and how that's so important. I think the ways you can have empathy is putting yourself in their shoes, checking in with them on how they're doing or the ways that we're responding to challenging conversations. Do you have any other ways you might do that?

Yeah, also recognizing you can't be in their shoes. You don't know what their situation is. And you can try and you can be empathetic and say, okay, well, this person has had a really bad series of bosses lately, so I get their defensive about talking to the boss. Okay, cool. I can understand that. And by acknowledging I don't know where this person is coming from, it makes you more curious.

It makes you more open. Somebody once said to me, Anne, stop expecting you from other people. And that blew my mind. Yeah. It was blew my mind. Yeah. It was like, whoa. But it's such an amazing concept because we can never know what somebody else is thinking, where they're coming from.

And if we assume that, we're going to get it wrong. And I'm binging Breaking Bad right now. I don't know if you all have seen that show. It's a show. The wife is driving me nuts because she is so bent on her way all the time. I mean, and I literally am, I want to reach to the TV and just shake her because it's like, oh, there's so many other experiences of all of the different people in her family. And she just doesn't see it. And I can see where she's coming from and, ah, makes me crazy.

So respect people for who they are, and you don't know who they are in any sense. So when we can accept that, it makes it a lot easier. You may not understand somebody's life choices, somebody's lifestyle choices. You don't have to understand. You just need to be empathetic and try to work with them. I appreciate that.

And really trying to understand what's going on with them and not being in their shoes because you don't really know what they're experiencing. Is there anything we should do, Anne, after we have a challenging conversation with someone? You know, following up is big. And it can be as much as, hey, Cinder, since our conversation, I have noticed

you've come to every meeting on time. It's making a big difference. Thank you. And it can be that four second thing, or however that long that took me. Or if nothing has changed since your conversation and they had agreed to doing something differently, that's even more of an important time to follow up.

Because if you don't follow up, you're basically saying, it's not that important. It's all good that you didn't do anything because they know nothing changed. And they're just hoping to get away with it because it's more comfortable, not because they're bad, because it's comfortable, right? And they may not be totally bought into the change in the first place. And so the importance, especially for leaders of following up after, especially if something doesn't, no, not especially. It's important on both sides. If things do change, just acknowledging that, thanking them, you know, is important. So they know you noticed, but if things don't change, you're

complicit in things not changing if you're not following up. And if you're like, it's not that important to follow up, then don't have the first conversation. Let's not make it uncomfortable, which is going back to that, why am I having this? Right? And is that important? Yeah. Ray, and do you have any thoughts on what we should be doing to help us decide if we should have the conversation or not? Because I'm thinking about this even in my life, and sometimes I kind of go back and forth on should I do it or should I not. So any thoughts on what might help us make the decision to have the challenging conversation?

Yeah. Looking at your motivation is a big one. Why do I want to have this conversation? Why do I want this to change? A lot of times, if we have conflict with somebody, we go into a conversation like this looking for an apology. And that's not the right motivation because you're asking somebody,

hey, you need to be humble now and apologize to me, but for something they potentially don't even think was a problem. You know, a friend of mine, right now we were talking about it the other day, he says, I have this peripheral friend, we're kind of friends, kind of not, but she does things that make me feel terrible. And I'm trying to decide whether to, you know, talk to her about it. And the two questions I asked was, do you think it'll change anything? And is it worth the discomfort if she's a peripheral friend?

If she's not your spouse or somebody you have to interact with a lot, not that their relationship isn't valuable, but is this a situation where you could just say, hey, I know this person is like that and I'm just not gonna take it on? Or is this a situation where you're like, I can't work under these conditions, I need to fix this. And so now I've got to focus on the future of our relationship and what it looks like rather than the past and saying,

I need an apology for that thing you did, right? In my mind, I don't care if they apologize, as long as they never do it again. And you don't even need to acknowledge that it's a problem. The behavior change is all the apology I need. So that's one of the things that I tell people to think about is, what's my motivation here? And does that make sense based on the relationship and who we know them to be? Yeah. I appreciate those two questions.

The first one's you said is like, do you think it will change anything and do you think it will be worth it? So being better at understanding your own motivation and what you expect. Is this the hill I want to die on? Yeah. Well, Anne, what have I not asked you about change or challenging conversations that would be helpful for those listening? I don't know whether we've covered this, but one of the things that I really like to do

is normalize the discomfort. If you're sitting on the porch of the old comfort zone, knowing you have to punch it and have that tough conversation, or knowing you have to change the way you're interacting with your coworkers or whatever it is. Know that the discomfort is perfectly normal and you're not the only one who's a complete disaster before taking that first step. When we know that that discomfort is a speed bump, it's an opportunity to pause and think and then move rather than a stop sign. It allows us to step into these uncomfortable situations a lot more courageously, which is what we all need

in life in general. Absolutely. Amen. Well, hey, this has been so fun to talk to you. I knew that you would bring the energy, and so I appreciate just like you showing up as your authentic self today. And I was writing some notes down as we were chatting as a way to be able to summarize what we talked about today.

So I appreciate at the beginning we were talking about like why people don't like change and that we tend to go to the self-protection mode and what's going to go well. You talked about how you can experience two emotions simultaneously, so being excited for the change but also being scared. Your three P's to deal with change, which was problem, plan, and punch it. And then when we were talking about challenging conversations, you were talking about having a two-way dialogue, being curious, and being an active part of the change, right?

And being an active participant in the change. Stop expecting you from other people, mic drop. Right? Oh. One thing I forgot to ask you is you were in a figure competition, which I'd love for you to share a little bit about that with the audience and what you learned from that. Yeah. So I used to work in fitness. I worked in group exercise. I ran group exercise for a large gym chain and I also was an instructor. And so I was working out a lot. And so when

I left that in 2015 to be a professional speaker, I kind of stopped working out. And so I gained some weight. I was in my forties and I was like, oh gosh, I kind of stopped working out. And so I gained some weight. I was in my 40s and I was like, oh gosh, I don't know what to do. I'm not used to this extra body that I've got. I need to do something dramatic. And so I decided to sign up for this local figure competition. I'd seen the pictures in my gym and I was like, Ooh, that's cool. I could do that. And so I signed up and I followed the direction. My trainer just told me what to do and I did it, which actually taking away the decision of what to eat left a lot more of my willpower for the decisions I needed to make in my business.

So it ended up being a good thing. And I also got, I'm sorry to be braggadocious about it, but I had the perfect body. I mean, it was a fact. I know I saw some pictures on your page and I was like, whoa, Anne. Right? Look at that six pack. I was the only over 40. In fact, I think I beat everybody by eight years or so.

So I walked out on the over 40 and I was the only one who walked out. They're like, at the winter is Anne Bonny. And I was like, what? And I made this big drama, everybody laughed. And then they won the novice. and then I won the whole thing. And I was surprised, because I just went into it hoping for an experience, and trying to get in shape

and all that stuff. And I had no thoughts of winning. And so when I did, I genuinely was surprised. But it was an interesting moment when I was standing there looking in the mirror the night before, and I've got a six pack and I've got a thigh gap and I have the perfect body. I mean, like all of our lives were like,

oh, if only I had a six pack, if only I had this, if only I had this, I had it all. And I realized that nothing was different. That my bank account still wasn't where I wanted it to be, that my business wasn't still where I wanted it to be. I was still living in my parents basement at 43. I was lonely, you know, and I realized I had this weird lightning bolt moment of what really matters. And not that I don't want a nice six pack again. And I realize also

what was important and how having this perfect body in this moment while it was fun and it was great and I've got a couple cool trophies didn't really matter. And so that was a really interesting moment. But the other piece that I think helps and comes with age is the confidence. That- Yeah. When I walked out on that stage, I had a lot of showed through

in the way I walked and the way I posed. And I think that was a big, and Greta, I look good, but everybody on that stage looked amazing. And so I think that was a big, and Greta, I looked good, but everybody on that stage looked amazing. And so I think that confidence and really made me stand out and above and got me a couple of trophies,

which I've used ever since, because it's like, just show up and show up as though you belong there and people will believe it. And they won't even give you a trophy. Oh my gosh, that's awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing that with us. I think that like your aha moment that it was like, you know, because we always, I think

as women we tend to strive for like this perfect body. And it's like when you got there, it was like, okay, well, all these other things aren't quite what I want it to be. And did it really make this, you know, all, all, you know, uh, did it really make the impact that you thought it was going to? Yeah. And it also didn't stay for very long after the chicken taco, after I won my trophies, it all started packing back on. Well, Ann, what a delight to have you on the podcast.

How can people find out more about your speaking and learn more about you and check out that picture of you with this amazing six pack? Thank you. Yeah. Thank you for having me. This has been super fun. YourChangeSpeaker.com is my website or if you're feeling spunky, go to AnneBody.Ninja because I bought that too, but it takes you to the same place. On the about page, you'll see pictures of me working at an elephant sanctuary in Thailand and doing an Iron Man and going on morale building tours in Iraq and also going having a six

pack. So it's all there. I love it. YourChainspeaker.com. Thank you so much for joining us here today and I appreciate you. It's awesome. Thank you so much, Syndra. Thanks everybody. Way to go for finishing another episode of the High Performance Mindset. I'm giving you a virtual fist pump. Holy cow, did that go by way too fast for anyone else? If you want more, remember to subscribe, and you can head over to Dr. Syndra for show notes and enjoy my exclusive community for

High Performers where you get access to videos about Mindset each week. So again, you can head over to Dr.Syndra. That's D-R-C-I-N-D-R-A dot com. See you next week.