High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 68: Developing the Mind of a Champion with Dr. Jim Taylor, Sport Psychologist

Episode Date: September 10, 2016

In this interview, Dr. Jim Taylor talks about what it means to think like a champion. He discusses that we need to strive for excellence instead of perfection, and how the need to be perfect can get in our way of peak performance. Perfection leads to an unwillingness to take risks, fear of failure, and pressure. It is never attainable. He describes how peak performance is complex. He also talks about how failure is like a mountain lion that can eat you! You can find Jim at @drjimtaylor or drjimtaylor.com where you can find information about his online courses and services. "A key is to fully realize your potential – that is where your mind comes in!" "There is no other option than to give it your all. Throw yourself into it." "If you take your shot, good things will happen." "Performance is a complex activity just like humans are complex creatures."

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Sindra Kampoff, and I'm grateful that you're here, ready to listen to an interview with Dr. Jim Taylor. Now, before we get going with the interview, I'd like to go over to iTunes and read an iTunes review. A few days ago, Mindset Rookie posted this. I listen to this podcast as I'm going to work

almost every day. The positive affirmations start my day off right. Hands down, one of the best podcasts for mindset. Mindset Rookie, I wanna thank you from the bottom of my heart for heading over to iTunes, posting this comment and this rating. And I really appreciate that you listen every day on your way to work. If you listen to this podcast regularly,

or if you're just tuning in and you like today's episode, it would help us so much if you'd head over to iTunes and follow Mindset Rookie's lead. It just helps us reach more and more people each and every week. And so more people are exposed to mental strategies and mindset techniques so they can live their best life. So we are going to head to a podcast interview with Dr. Jim Taylor in a few minutes. And I want to give you just a little bit of background of what this interview is about and what Jim talks about. So Dr. Jim Taylor is a sports psychologist from the San Francisco area. And I know Jim Taylor from his work at ASP, the Association for Applied Sports Psychology, which I'm a member. I went to one of his workshops that I attended last year, and I thought he'd be

a great person to have on the podcast. And so in this interview, he talks about what it means to actually think like a champion. A lot of our discussion is the difference between striving for excellence instead of perfection and why just perfection is detrimental to performance and why it's never attainable. He describes how peak performance is complex. And I really think that you're going to enjoy his analogy of how failure is like a mountain lion that can eat you. So I think you're going to enjoy this interview. There are a few parts where our connection got a little rocky and we tried to clean it up. So I just want to give you a heads up on that. Definitely worth listening to. And I just wanted to apologize for that up front.

All right. If you like this interview, head over to Twitter and you can send me a message at mentally underscore strong and Dr. Jim Taylor's Twitter handle is at Dr. Jim Taylor. I hope you enjoy this interview with Dr. Taylor. So without further ado, let's bring on Jim. So welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Cindra Campoff. And today I'm excited to provide you an interview with Dr. Jim Taylor. So Dr. Taylor, can you tell us a little bit about your passion and what you do? Well, my passion really is about sharing ideas. I love thinking of stuff and sharing with people, and so I do that through writing, through speaking, and through my consulting work with high performers. And tell us specifically who you typically work with. I work prominently with elite athletes, from junior elites up to Olympians and pros.

I have a few athletes in Rio right now, which is exciting, but also scary. But over the years, I've worked with a lot of business people, companies around the world. I've worked with artists in the medical field with surgeons. I've done a lot little work with the military. So really my passion is helping high-performing, high-functioning people performing even better and achieving their goals, as well as finding some happiness and satisfaction in their lives because success and happiness don't always go together, as you well know, Sandra.

Yeah, this is true. So just tell us a little bit about how you got into where you are in your career now and in terms of working with a variety of people, how did you get there? Well, there's a cliche that people become psychologists to figure themselves out. I was a pretty good young alpine ski racer in my youth. That was my sport. I took a course related to sports psychology and it totally changed my career. I jumped up into the international level. I was not near the Olympics, but I competed internationally and had a lot of success as my team. And more than anything, it was just a dramatically different way

in which I approached my sport and how I felt about my sport. So it wasn't just the tangible results, but my experience with it that made the difference. So when I got to college, I took a psych class and I go, this is it. There was no really, there's no other choice for me in a career. This was my path that I was, I don't say chosen to do, but I found me. And since then, I've slowly built my career. Obviously, I've been doing this for over 30 years now, well before the internet, so it was much harder. But I networked and I wrote a ton and I reached out and I developed my skills and things just built and built and built like any other small business. And how did your experience change as an alpine skier when you started implementing

sports ecology techniques? Well, before that, I was probablypine skier when you started implementing sports ecology techniques? Well, before that, I was probably ranked about 40th in the nation. I was a pretty good slalom skier. But I lacked confidence. I had no confidence in myself. I basically knew I was going to screw up every race. I got really nervous, couldn't focus, wasn't very motivated. And then that summer, I took this course that introduced me to a lot of the things that I, a lot of techniques and strategies that I do with the athletes that I work with now. And I did a ton of imagery. The final project had to do with imagining myself skiing the way I wanted. And at first I couldn't.

I would fall constantly in my mind. I stuck with it. And next year, top five of every race I was in, except one, I made the bottom of the US ski team. I made top 20 in the nation. But more than anything, aside from the results, when I got in the starting gate for the first time in my career, I not only knew I was going to finish, I knew I was going to win. And of course, I didn't win every time. But that fundamental belief in myself, that really deep belief in myself translated into just skiing fast and getting much better results. And those are, you know, when I watch the Olympics on TV right now, that's what I'm seeing.

It's just a deep belief that they are going to win and a deep belief in themselves and really where they're headed. So, you know, Dr. Taylor, you get to work with just some of the world's best. You know, I'm thinking the world's best athletes, leaders, you know, all the types of people you mentioned that you work with. So what do you think separates them, the really, really great ones, from those that maybe just kind of fall flat? Well, people like to think that professional and world-class athletes are somehow special. They're really not. They are as human as the rest of us. They struggle with confidence

and nerves and focus just the same way that we do. I think two things separate them. They're gifted naturally. They're born with the body type, the motor skills, whatever necessary to be able to do the things that Simone Biles does or Usain Bolt does. So they're just more talented than we are. Second, they've been doing it for a long time, full time. Whereas for most athletes, we don't have that opportunity because we're busy going to school and doing other things. But yes, are they a little bit different than us mentally? Probably so, but because of those other experiences. But the fact is, my experience with them has been that they are just human and with some extra human physical capabilities that has allowed them to develop some greater mental

capabilities. And you mentioned a few things that you see them struggle with. I like your idea that they're just, they're human. That's what I experienced too. They're just like me or you or anyone listening. You said confidence, anxiety. What are the things that you really see that even the elite athletes struggle with? Well, it's sort of what I call a tool level.

Tools for building their confidence, for controlling their intensity, whether up or down, focusing. But I would say that the biggest struggles they have to do with are deeper stuff. Some of the issues that I deal with constantly in my practice are what I call obstacles, overinvestment in their sport, where their self-esteem becomes too connected to who they are. So every time they go to compete, it's actually a threat to their psychic existence. Perfectionism. A lot of people think that perfectionism, they're all great athletes, all incredibly successful people, perfectionists.

But there's been a ton of research, as you know, Sindra, and my own experience that perfectionism actually ultimately interferes with athletes achieving their highest level because they are unwilling to take the risks that can cause failure. That leads in then to failure. And many great athletes I come across, despite their successes, are terrified of failure. And it's what often keeps them from being from top 20 to being top 10 to being top five and number one. And related to that are expectations, the pressure they feel from themselves or others, a focus on results. We live in a result-oriented society, and these are competitive athletes in a competitive culture. And so it's all about results.

And yet my argument is that, yes, results matter, but to get them, ignore them. Right. And then the last point is just negativity. They go to what I call the dark side, if you're a Star Wars fan, where they just go to a dark place and it's hard for them to get out of. And so, again, these are things that we all experience. But because at the level they're at, it's like the volume is turned up to a 12 or 14, whereas for us, it's maybe a six or a seven. Yeah, that's so true. And, you know, Dr. Taylor, I got a question for you about perfectionism, because, you know, I even see that in my own practice where athletes are really struggling with perfectionistic tendencies.

How would you approach that with an athlete? It's really good that they have high standards, but what's your philosophy on perfectionism? You're asking for a one-minute answer to a 10-hour question. True, isn't it? I'll do my best. First of all, for me, perfectionism is striving for a standard or a goal that they will never, ever achieve. Because as human beings, we can't be perfect.

And then when they don't, being perfect is so connected to their self-esteem that when they fail to achieve perfection, which of course is a no, they beat themselves up about it. They feel like absolute failures. They feel devastated because it is a personal attack on their value as a person. And so a couple of things I try to do. First of all, I try to give them a better thing to strive for. And my antidote for perfectionism is excellence.

And so excellence is still very high standards. It's not average, above average, or very good. It's excellent. But it allows for mistakes. And I try to show perfectionists the value of mistakes and that it's essential to make mistakes because if you're making mistakes, then you are taking risks. You're pushing yourself. You're challenging yourself. You're moving out of your comfort zone.

Plus, I try to help them understand where their perfectionism comes from. Most often, perfectionism comes from their parents. That's what the research shows, and usually a perfectionistic parent. In this case, kids come to believe through role modeling that they have to be perfect because when dad isn't perfect, he freaks out, or when mom isn't totally in control and everything's just right, they get really – they hate themselves. And so perfectionism starts as a sort of functional response to a somewhat dysfunctional environment. But as they go along, that aspect of being functional becomes dysfunctional because they become afraid of failure, because they become risk averse, and because they just don't like themselves and they're filled with all these horrible emotions because they're not perfect. Absolutely.

I completely understand and agree with everything that you said. So besides perfectionism and negativity and some of the things that you just mentioned that you see your clients struggle with, what would be a topic within sports psychology? It could be a tool. It could be just a topic in general. What's something that you tend to always just really address with your athletes or just the high performers that you work with,

entrepreneurs, business leaders, surgeons? Sure, sure. It's hard to nail it down to one. Yeah. But I would go with two sides. First is attitudes. It's just a cliche. You have to have a positive attitude.

But when I talk about attitudes, I'm talking about a very specific set of beliefs. One, for example, is ownership, is they need to own everything associated with their performances. Another is focusing totally on the process. That is what they need to do to achieve the results they want. Another one is, and this is a big emotional one, is do they perceive the situation as a threat or a challenge? And I want them to develop a challenge attitude. I want them to also develop a long-term perspective because we live in a culture where it's all about now, instant messaging, instant soup in the microwave.

But becoming a great athlete is a long-term commitment and it's a long-term process. Finally, have a risk attitude. To be truly successful, you have to be willing to take risks. And I don't mean stupid risks like texting and driving. I'm not taking risks that can result in failure, yet also push the envelope. So developing some of those attitudes is really important. Plus, I think it's really important to strengthen what I call mental muscles.

I'm not a big believer in what are called mental skills because I don't actually think they're mental skills, but that's a whole other conversation. But I think about muscles. For me, the key mental muscles are motivation, confidence, intensity, focus, and mindset, which is a different kind of mindset than Carol Dweck from Stanford talks about. So there's that component. There's the mental muscles and then mental tools. And my mental tools are emotions, imagery, breathing, and trust.

So these are all sort of this mini version of what I call my prime performance system of all the different areas that I believe impact performance because I'm a big believer that elite performance in any area of life is incredibly complex and it can't be boiled down to just a couple of quote-unquote mental skills it is complex and there's a lot of areas and I like what you're describing in terms of your your model I know that you can find that on your website or at least something on your website related to that. So if people are interested, we'll tell you at the end of the interview where to head over and find more information about that. You know, Dr. Taylor, what would you say you kind of describe as maybe your signature technique, something that is unique to you or just that you always really help your clients with? Right. I can't speak to what's unique to me because I don't know what other people do,

but I think that really challenging some long-held and deeply ingrained attitudes about themselves and about the world. Because for me, that's the foundation. I can give athletes great mental tools. I can strengthen their mental muscles. But if they have some of these attitudes and obstacles that interfere with them, their approach in the competition, then I don't think all the mental muscles and all the mental tools in the world are going to help. So for me, it's really clearing out the junk, the attitudes that are really counterproductive, both to their performances and to their happiness, and really giving them another way of looking at the world that will make them perform better and be happier.

Absolutely. And what do you see the impact of the work that you do in terms of, you know, you just said happiness and performance. Could you give us just some examples of what you see in terms of the impact of really understanding and addressing your attitude and the other things that are within your model? Sure. Well, I'll give you a couple of examples of what I consider to be sort of an ultimate goal and success. A number of years ago, I worked with a 15-year-old girl tennis player, one of the best in the world, turned pro, high expectations. But she had a bully for a father, a really mean guy who hadn't heard from her in a couple of months. And she said, I got some news for you. I quit. And this is a young woman who was in her early 20s at the time, late teens, making a lot of money, very well known.

And she said she quit. And I said, why? And she said, how can I possibly be truly successful and happy at something that I hate so much? And you could see what you could think, well, well, that's a major fail. She was she could have gone on to this incredible career and made lots of money and become even more famous. She went on, she went back to college, got a law degree, Ivy League school. Now she's a very successful attorney. And so for me, that was a big success because she chose happiness over athletic success. And that was a huge decision for her because her life since she was born basically was to be a professional athlete.

That's one. Another one was another young tennis player by coincidence. I used to work with a lot of tennis players. I started working with her when she was 11. Incredibly unhappy girl, a brat, spoiled, way involved parents. And I worked with her again for, I think, three or four years and got the parents to back off, got her to take ownership of her tennis. And over the course of these couple of years, she just grew into not only a really good young woman, but she went on to a very successful career as an All-American at a major tennis university in the U.S. and went on to play in the pro tour for a while, and now she's coaching tennis. And so that was a success because not only did she overcome being a huge brat,

an unhappy kid, but she turned into a really fine young woman and had a very successful tennis career. Yeah, in both of those examples, you're not describing the wins, right, that you didn't say anything about that they won, although the second example, you know, she was all American, but it was more about how they're impacted as people and that they, you know, chose happiness, that they were happier, more fulfilled, treated people better than before. Well, the reality is, Sindra, that very few athletes are going to make it to the top. It's statistically incredibly unlikely, but they're going to be people all their lives.

And so if I have to choose between success as an athlete and success and happiness as a person, I'm going to go that way. I care about the athletes I work with achieving their goals because they care, and I'll do everything I can to help them. But, again, does every athlete I work with become great successes? No, because the mind is only one piece of the puzzle. And maybe they weren't coached well. Maybe they weren't physically, they didn't have the ability. But really, it's about ultimately whatever ability they have, fully realize it. And that's where the mental stuff comes in.

And if they do that, and if they're driven by a passion for the sport, even if they don't make it to the very top. Yeah, I like what you're saying in terms of just realizing their full potential. And that doesn't always mean getting into the Olympics and making, you know, or winning a gold or winning the Super Bowl. It's a larger impact. And it's not just about winning, focusing on the process, which is something that you said earlier. So, Dr. Taylor, let's talk a little bit about you, and can you tell us why you do what you do? We think here at the High Performance Mindset that really knowing why you do what you do

and keeping that front and center is really important. So just tell us a little bit about your background and how you got to where you are now, but why do you do this? Well, it's an interesting thing because I think the best place to come from in pursuing your own personal greatness is from a place of it's simply who you are. It's a part of your identity. And that because if your drive is coming from there, you can't not do the very best you can.

You can't not give your best effort. You can't not be fully committed. To not do any of those things would be to not fulfill your identity. And so from a very early age, I initially aspired to be a great ski racer. I did everything I could to become great. I became pretty good. But then all the experiences I had, the life lessons that I had, I then transferred to my education, to my undergraduate degree and my doctoral degree in psychology. And so it was all driven by just a tremendous passion I had to find out what I'm capable of. And it's rarely as high as I would like to be, but I'm also over the years had the

maturity to recognize, well, we don't always get what we want. And yet, in whatever sport that I took up, and I committed to, I had a degree of success, and a degree of, a tremendous degree of satisfaction and enjoyment in the process. So, everything I do now, I feel very fortunate. I'm just driven by, I can't not do this. As an example, I did a little workation last week while my wife and kids were out car camping in Northern California. And we have a house in the mountains. And so literally out of 14 to 16 hours a day, I wrote for 12 hours a day, solid, with an hour for exercise, an hour for meals. And I would tell that to people and they go, how could you do that? But it was a joy for me to be able to just write and express myself. And at the end of the day, I was so jazzed, I couldn't wait to get to the next day.

And it's so rarely now that I have a wife and kids, I don't have the opportunity to just give myself thoroughly in terms of time and commitment to that. But within the time frame I have, that's what I do. Yeah, that's excellent. I think I like what you're saying in terms of, you know, it's part of your identity. It's part of who you are. And obviously, you get a lot of joy out of it. If you spent that many days just writing for 12 hours, you know, clearly it's part of your purpose. And, and I can I can see that that really fuels you. So Dr. Taylor, tell us about a time that you failed, you know, and kind of what I mean by that is just a time that didn't go so great, you know, and I think we can learn so much

for from our failures, and especially athletes and high performers who are really perfectionistic, they have fear failure, which you just mentioned. So really helping them understand that failure is part of getting better, right? Improving. So tell us about a time that you failed and then, you know, what did you learn from that and what could we learn from your experience? Yeah, sure. I was 16 years old and again, I was aspiring to be a great ski racer, but I was unbelievably unmotivated. And I had always been sort of an underachiever academically and as well as athletically. And athletically, I didn't have the option to be unmotivated because I'm not this big gift athlete. And so, you know, when I was 16, I had the skull of racing in the Eastern skiing championships, which was fairly high level, but not hugely high

level on the East Coast. And I didn't, I had a horrible season and didn't come close. And previous to that, in fall training, in summer training, conditioning, I never worked very hard, not very motivated. And again, I didn't have theiphany, and I don't know where it came from, but it came from a very deep place that if I was going to be successful, I had to start working hard. And so from that summer on, you can achieve more than you're capable of achieving, but I achieved as far as I could. I started working hard unbelievably in the gym, on the hill, in my ski racing. In school, I'd been an incredible underachiever. I started applying myself. And ever since then, there was no other option other than giving it everything I've got. And I think related to that is that I'm not sure if I had a fear of

failure. I've always been a big believer that I was always willing to take my shot I was always willing to take the risk whether it was in a sports situation in an academic situation when I was young asking somebody out on a date and not caring about being rejected and for any young teenager or 20 or something year old that's a scary thing but in so many aspects of my life

I was willing to take my shot and there's a scary thing. But in so many aspects of my life, I was willing to take my shot. And there's a great Nike poster from years ago with Michael Jordan saying something like, I was given the ball 27 times with 10 seconds left in the game, the winning shot in my hand, and I missed. Now, that didn't never stop Michael Jordan from taking the shot. So one of the most profound personal and professional philosophies that I try to communicate to my clients is just have your goal to be just take the shot because it's the people who ultimately are willing to take the shot are the ones who are the ones who make it because after a while other people they just don't take the shot because it's they might fail

and then of course in so, you automatically fail. That is to say, you automatically don't achieve your goal because the only way to achieve your goal is to take your shot. So I really try to convey so much of my personal philosophy about risk-taking, taking your shot, not being afraid of failure. I try to communicate that not only in terms of our work in terms of talking with athletes, but also as a role model in my approach to life and my approach to my career and my sports. What I heard is just a lot of emphasis on effort. You know, I like what you said in terms of if you take the shot, good things will happen. But you have to take the shot. You have to be willing to do it. And then, you know, there's no other option than just giving it your all. I think so many

times we're focused on the outcome or the result. And that's why we experience the fear of failure. But you're just saying, you know, take the shot right here in the moment. Yes, you will fail some, but the more you take your shot, the more you will succeed. Absolutely. So can you think of an aha moment that you've had in your career, maybe while working with one of your clients or just your own experience and how we could learn something from that? Yeah. I think the aha experience is that, well, two things related. First of all, as I indicated before, performance is a highly complex activity that can't be boiled down to a few things like motivation, confidence, and focus. That encompasses a whole lot of factors.

Also, human beings are highly complex creatures. And that we are driven by so many things in so many ways, especially that we have absolutely no idea about. And so, yes, I work with giving athletes good practical tools they can use. But when I work with high achievers, I go deep. I want to know where they came from, where they got their beliefs and attitudes about themselves in the world, how obstacles were created. And so, you know, I don't psychoanalyze people, but I believe in understanding where people come from and what are the causes of some of their obstacles. So if they lack confidence or they're really nervous before an event, well, sure, you could have them do relaxation exercises, but that doesn't resolve the problem.

And what's the problem? Often fear of failure, a threat reaction to the possibility of failure, expectations, pressure, because I don't want to just provide symptom relief. I want to get at the underlying issue. And I also want to make clear that as well, that even though I have a doctorate in psychology, I'm not, I don't do clinical psychology. These things I'm talking about, these are not mental psychiatric issues. These are just life issues. These are developmental issues and that, that nonetheless interfere with people who are striving for their own personal greatness. Can you give us some examples of maybe, you know, just within your clients of things that they are motivated by that they didn't even know? Yeah.

Well, I mean, a lot of people, a lot of athletes, they think they're driven by success, but actually they're driven to avoid failure. And it's a very different experience going at something versus running away from something. And where failure, the way I put it is failure is like a mountain lion. And, of course, if a mountain lion catches you, what's it going to do? It's going to eat you. And so if you can recognize that it's not a mountain lion, that's a kitty cat, bite you into a kitty cat can, but it's not going to kill you.

And so, so really understanding where a lot of this fear of failure comes from. Oh my gosh, it was from my parents or it was a coach, or I had this, this really horrible failure as a child and it just stayed with me. And, and also getting athletes. Usually I work from the teens, usually up. I usually, I work with kids down to maybe 11 years old, but that's pretty young. But once they reach their teens and get older, they're able to step back and recognize that they aren't who they were when they were children. And so they don't need to have those same fears that they had as children because now they're capable, resourceful, much more mature people with the experiences and the knowledge to be able to handle these situations in a healthy way. What happens is these beliefs and these attitudes and these obstacles, they become so deeply ingrained that they just react like fear of failure. Oh, my gosh,

instead of failure. OK, well, you know, I'll deal with it. Right. I like what you said in terms of failure is not a mountain lion eating you. It's just a kitty cat and it's not going to kill you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So just I think that's just a light way of for me in terms of just hearing, you know, that it's OK and you're going to be fine. And, you know, you're going to learn something from it and be a better person and performer. A big message I try to convey is that no matter what happens, you're going to be okay. You will be fine. And if they can buy into that, then that's a massive relief because if they can free themselves of that weight of failure, and I use this metaphor of a weight vest, it's almost

like they're about to begin a performance and they put on a 50-pound weight vest. And how are they going to feel? How are they going to perform? Slow, lethargic, sluggish. And if they can take the weight vest off of all the junk that they build up in their minds of what will happen if, it's liberating. Because if you can walk out of the field or the course or the court or the hill and have none of that stuff holding you back, weighing you down, then you can just express yourself and do what you've trained yourself to do. And good things are going to happen. Yeah, and I could I can just picture, you know, people performing lighter, right, freer when they take that white vest off and they can just be more of themselves and do what you know what their talent and what they've trained for absolutely so dr taylor let's go to the top 10 traits of high performers and if anybody wants to get that list you can head over

to my website which is the cindracampoff.com or a shorter way is drcindra.com so tell us which one of those do you which you know which one or two do you think are most important in terms of success and high performance? I love number seven. They are comfortable being uncomfortable because we are wired to not want to be uncomfortable because going back from your cave people, discomfort meant a potential threat to our survival. And that survival instinct gets in our way of achieving our goals in the present. So getting used to, the way I put it is, it's good to feel bad. If you feel bad, that's actually a good thing because it means you're doing something different. You're making a change. And because if you're always comfortable, then you're just staying where you are. And there's a great old Texas saying that goes

something like, if all you ever do is all you've ever done, all you'll ever get is all you ever got. And so that's one of my favorite sayings. And so that idea of getting uncomfortable is really, really important. And you want, I want my athletes to embrace that. Yeah. And by bad, I'm thinking that you mean like nervous, anxious. You know, when I think that I'm taking a risk, it just feels a little like, man, this is something new. I feel a little uncomfortable in my surroundings, you know. But then the next time it feels a lot better and a lot easier.

Is that how you would describe bad? To a degree, yes. Emotionally, there's discomfort, but also just trying something new, technically different in your sport. It feels weird. It feels bad because it's not what your body is used to executing. But if you don't get, create that discomfort in body movement or technique, a change physically, then you're never going to learn anything new because that which is familiar is that which is comfortable.

And that which is unfamiliar is uncomfortable. So the way to make it comfortable is to become familiar with it, which means do it. Excellent. Excellent. So it's good to feel bad. I like what you're describing. So let's just go to the speed round and ask you a few questions here. Just the first thing that you can think of, what would be a book you'd recommend or a resource for the audience, for anyone who'd like to learn more about the mind or sports psychology, performance psychology?

OK, I'm going to be a little self-serving and a little self-promoting here, but I've just developed a series of online courses. One is called Prime Sport 101, and I've got a series of of six-week courses that lay the foundation of knowledge and information and exercises and tools to prepare people to perform their best. So I'm very excited about it. I just started this summer and I've gotten a great response. So I'd go with my Prime Sport online mental training courses. Okay, excellent. And we can find more information where? On my website, drjimtaylor.com, drjimtaylor.com. I also have ebooks. I also have 95% of my website is free stuff. For me, my website is primarily, yes, I need to try to

make a living off it. But at the same time, it's for me, it's about sharing ideas, as I talked about at the very beginning. Absolutely. One book that I have really enjoyed that you wrote was Positive Push. And it's about a book really for parents who can help support their kids and their journey to their potential. So that's one book that I really relied on as a consultant and someone within the field of sports psychology. So thank you for your contribution of that. And What's the best advice you've ever received? Oh boy, just take your shot. Yeah, as I talked about earlier, because most people don't. And if you do, just taking your shot, you're ahead of the game of most people. And if you take the shot, you're going to sink them a bunch of times and good

things are going to happen. Excellent. Take your shot. You'll be ahead of the game. And what final advice would you have for those high performers who are listening? So those people who really want to reach the next level or realize their full potential, which is something that you said. Right. Take risks. Look at your life and all the areas that impact performance and choose a couple that you don't like to do, that are uncomfortable, or think about ways that you can take risks when you perform. Because there's a difference for me between good performance and going forward performance. And I want the athletes I work with, all the people I work with, whatever they do, to when they do it, they throw themselves into it

with reckless abandon. And they give everything they've got. But if you keep taking risks, I'm going to go back to that saying I use all the time, good things will happen. I can't say what. That depends on a lot of things outside of your control that have nothing to do with the mind. But if you keep putting yourself out there, taking the risk, good things will happen. Excellent. So you can find Dr. Taylor at drjimtaylor.com. What are the other ways that we should connect with you? I love getting emails from people. I'm jim at drjimtaylor.com. I also have a couple of Facebook pages, Dr. Jim Taylor, Twitter, Dr. Jim Taylor. So if you do a search on any of the social media, you will find me there. And you can sign up and like or follow me as you wish. And that's a good way to get my blogs, which I post usually once a week and put up information that I think is interesting. And my phone number is 415-322-8425

if anybody wants to give me a call. I don't expect I'll be getting any crank calls from people. So I'm happy to give it out. Plus it's on my website. But my website's a good place to start because you will learn far more than you care to about me on that website. But my website's a good place to start because you will learn far more than you care to about me on that website. But if you're into it, then more power to you.

Excellent. So we'd love to hear what you thought about this interview. You can head over to Twitter. My handle is mentally underscore strong and Dr. Taylor's is Dr. Jim Taylor on Twitter. And Jim, I just want to thank you so much for your time and your energy and your insight today. I really appreciated what you described as your prime performance model and that you just took time to really explain to us that humans are

complex and performance is complex. That's one thing that I really took from this conversation and I just appreciate your willingness to share your model. And then a few other things that I loved in our conversation, you know, just in terms of you explaining that this is part of your identity and, you know, this is part of your personal greatness and just how much you enjoy it and your passion. And I loved our discussion at the end about failure, that failure is not a mountain lion trying to eat you, but it's really just a kitty cat. So we really need to take risks. And there's a difference between good performance and really a performance where you throw yourself into it. And so I just want to appreciate your time and your energy and your insight and just sharing a little bit about what you do with everyone who's listening. Thanks very much, Cindra.

Cindra, it's been a great fun time sharing ideas with you. And anytime I can be of help in the future, just let me know. Sounds great. Have a great week. Okay. Take care. Bye-bye. Thank you for listening to High Performance Mindset. If you liked today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend, and join the conversation on Twitter at Mentally Underscore Strong. For more inspiration and to receive Sindra's free weekly videos, check out DrSindra.com.