High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 715: Do More, More Naturally: David Kolbe on the Power of Instinctive Strengths

Episode Date: November 17, 2025

Today on the High Performance Mindset, I'm joined by someone who has spent his entire life helping people work with their natural strengths instead of fighting against them. David Kolbe, CEO of Kolbe Corp, has literally grown up inside the Kolbe Concept — a system that helps leaders, teams, and organizations unlock instinctive strengths and achieve sustainable productivity. David is an author, strategist, and the visionary behind many of Kolbe Corp's most transformative tools, including the original algorithm for the Kolbe A Index. Over the years, he has helped thousands of professionals redesign the way they hire, collaborate, and lead by tapping into the way people naturally take action. His background is rare: part attorney, part economist, part innovation architect. You're about to learn why working with your natural instincts can change everything — your productivity, your energy, and your results. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. Alright…let's jump into my interview with David Kolbe. You are going to love this one! HIGH PERFORMANCE MINDSET SHOWNOTES FOR THIS EPISODE 🔹 Learn more about David Kolbe and the Kolbe A Index: www.kolbe.com/strategic-coach/ 🔹 Request a Free Mental Breakthrough Call with Dr. Cindra and/or her team: www.freementalbreakthroughcall.com 🔹 Learn more about the Mentally Strong Institute: mentallystronginstitute.com Love the show? Rate and review the podcast—and you might hear your name on the next episode!

Today on the high-performance mindset, I'm joined by someone who has spent his entire life helping people work with their natural strengths instead of fighting against them. David Colby, CEO of Colby Corp, has literally grown up inside the Colby concept, a system that helps leaders, teams, and organizations, unlock instinctive strengths, and achieve sustainable productivity. David is an author, strategist, and the visionary behind many of Colby Corp's most transformative tools, including the original algorithm for the Colby A Index. Over the years, he has helped thousands of professionals redesign the way they hire, collaborate, and lead by tapping

into the way people naturally take action. His background is rare, part attorney, part economist, part innovation architect. You're about to learn why working with your natural instincts can change everything, your productivity, your energy, and your results. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. Before we jump into the interview, I have some exciting news. Our coaching team is growing at the Mentally Strong Institute, and I'd love you to meet one of them. I believe everyone should have a coach. I've had my own coach for the last 10 years, and I wouldn't be where I am today without coaching. At the Mentally Strong Institute, we help leaders and athletes achieve their goals quicker, up-level their confidence, and increase their influence. Do you want to get out of your own way

and get to your goals quicker? Then I invite you to sign out for a free coaching call at free mental breakthrough call.com. We will help you create a breakthrough, a moment of more clarity and understanding. That's www.com. to sign up for a free mental breakthrough call. All right, let's jump into my interview with David Colby. You are going to love this one. Welcome to the high performance mindset podcast. I am just really excited today to welcome David Colby to the podcast.

David, you have been the CEO of Colby corporations for 28 years. And I can't wait to talk to you about the Colby Index, which I've taken twice. I'm really looking forward to that and also to learn more about your new book, do more naturally. So welcome to the high performance mindset. It's such an honor to interviewing you today. Thanks for having me on, Sandra. It's great to be here. So as we get started, I want to ask you just an open-ended question at the beginning. Like, why should people listen to us talk about strengths and your book today and the Colby Index? Wow, kind of a loaded question, but really easy for me to answer at the same time.

The human mind, very broadly speaking, has three main components, thinking, feeling, and doing. And people know about two of them, the thinking, cognitive, you know, how smart you are. They're all kinds of tests. We learn about it. We focus on it. We sharpen those skills. So that's great. Then there's the affective.

A lot of times people think of us, you know, the personality side, the preferences, desires. And there are lots of affective instruments, Myers-Briggs or MBTI, Strengths, Finder, Disc, predictive index. And that's great. We talk a lot about emotional intelligence and learning about that part of ourselves and figuring out how to tap into it and use it. This third part that doing, what's called the conative part of the mind, and this concept goes back literally to the ancient Greeks. Plato talked about it. But this doing part of the mind, the conative part, people haven't been. told what it is, how they can tap into it, what it means in terms of their success,

they're living in the world. I mean, it's not just highfalutin things. It's kind of everyday stuff that it affects. So people should listen because they'll learn about this inherent, really important part of themselves that almost nobody's heard about, which is very frustrating to me. That's one of our missions is just to get exposure. Because it'll change things in a positive way for people. Oh, I can't wait to dyes deeper. And I want to start with, you know, David, for those who may not be familiar, like, tell us what the COBAA index is and how it differs from what you just said, like some of the cognitive personality assessments like the Myers-Briggs or the strength layer assessment. Right. So the Colby-A index is a, it's a self-assessment. So you do it

yourself. You don't need to go to a clinician or something. You don't need to have like a blood test. So similar in that sense to lots of personality tests, but what we measure is different. As I was saying, we measure this conative part of the mind. It's the pattern that we all have that seems to be instinctive. We seem to be born with it and it sticks with us. We've done test retest studies over with gaps from six months to 20 years and the test retest stays consistent. I mean, there's a margin of error, so it's not necessarily exactly the same, but it's

basically the same. It's very stable. So this part of us that sticks with us that we measure the cognitive part, and the results tell you kind of what your strengths are, what your pattern is in terms of the way you take action. So let me get a little specific because the vague part is important context, but we break it down into four what we call action modes. Fact finder, follow through quick start and implementer. are those four. So fact finder is how we deal with gathering and sharing information. So you have some people, and I happen to be on this end of the spectrum, who are really data intensive. I do research.

I need information. When I start process, we're a project. If I don't know enough, we're typically kind of a lot about something when I'm starting. That's where I start, you know, getting information, what's happened in the past. But there are people on the other end of the spectrum. And I've obviously people all across. You know, most people fall in that middle range, but on the other end of the spectrum are really people who simplify. Rather than needing lots and lots and lots of information and doing more and more research, I got to focus on, hey, what are the two or three things that are most important? I don't need to know everything. I just need to know enough. So that's fact finder. Follow through is how we deal with systems and structure. And again,

it's a continuum. This one is somebody who creates systems, organizes, puts things in their place, sticks with it. We'll not just create a process, but then stick with that process, follow all the steps. The other end of the spectrum is somebody who's really open-ended, adaptable. They don't have to drive to closure on everything. They will leave loose ends. They don't necessarily tie all of them up. I'll pause there and say, as I'm describing all of these, I want everybody to understand there's not. There's not a better or worse inherently. People are at different parts of each of these, you know, different places on the spectrum in each of these four action modes. It's not like we should strive to,

you know, and we do have numbers for them, which we'll talk about, but the numbers are not like, oh, it's better to have a 10 than a 7 or a 2. It's just where on the continuum are you? There are times where the strength that you have might be better adapted to a particular task you're doing, but that doesn't mean overall that that's better. All right. Then the next one is quick start. Quick start is how we deal with risk, the unknown. You have people who on the one end of the spectrum really create change.

They experiment. They try out new things. The other end of the spectrum are people who stabilize. They figure out what's working well and they stick with it. They prevent chaos from happening. I was going to say unneeded chaos, but they'll prevent just generally speaking all kinds of chaos. Sometimes when that changes may be necessary, they'll prevent it. Just like people on the other end of the spectrum, sometimes the change in chaos isn't helpful, but they'll do it anyway just because that's who they are.

Then the last one is implementer. It's not implementer as in how we carry things out. That's more the follow through, but it's how we deal with. space tangibles, the tactile, tangible, three-dimensional world. So the name comes from the concept of the use of tools and implements. So this, on the one hand, is somebody who physically builds and constructs when they're taking action. To on the other end of the spectrum, people who imagine they, you know, kind of visualize rather than physically construct and build. So that's the quick thumbnail of each of those four.

Okay, I love it. And before we dive into my results as an example, I want to learn more about what made you decide to start the ColbyA Index and just study this area of how people thrive. I'd love to hear your background story and what led you to do this work. Well, so I didn't create the Colby Index. I have the name, but my mom actually created it. She founded our company just over 50 years ago. We just had her 50th anniversary.

I started working in the company, as you said, 28 years ago. You gave me a little more credit than I deserve, though. I haven't been CEO for 28 years. I actually came in as general counsel. I'm an attorney by training and had done that for a while. So my mom created the company. She created the index. I helped with creating the original scoring algorithm when I wasn't working in the company then,

but I helped with that. But going even further back, part of the backstory is she grew up in a household where psychometric testing was kind of the family business, which is a little abnormal. That's true. Her dad is a guy, my grandfather, Eldon Wunderlich, who created something called Wunderlich personnel test originally. Very cool. Had name changes since then. But the Wunderlick was the first short form intelligence. test is the best way to think of it. So it was something that businesses could use to figure out

who should we hire what jobs are appropriate for different people based on how smart they are. And so my mom, the way she describes the story is, you know, she saw this and she would have discussions with her dad when she was young and say, yep, but dad, we all know people who are really smart and maybe motivated to like the affective side. You know, they're committed, they're motivated, they're smart, and yet they're still not great at the job. So there must be something else going on. And his response was basically, I'm sure you're right. So figure it out. I've figured out this intelligence part. So I'm sticking with what I do. You can figure out the other part. And as I said, that's when she was young. So that was kind of in the back of her mind.

She was a stay-at-home mom for a while, but she's an entrepreneur by heart. So she started a couple of businesses. Actually, I said the company is 50 years old. This company, which was not the first one, she started, really started as an educational publishing business and then evolved into what we're doing now. So that's a lot. I don't know how much you wanted, but I'm an eight back finder. So as I said, I gather and share a lot of information. So there you go. That's great. Well, and the Wonderlich test was used in the NFL for a while, right? Is it still used? I don't know. It is still used. They, for a long time, they required all potential draftees who went through the draft combine to take it.

They don't require it anymore. I don't know. I'm not involved in the business. My cousin actually runs it and other cousins are involved. So I don't know how many NFL draftees or potential draftees still take it, but it's not required. So my guess is it's fewer. But it's still very popular and in use around the country and the world in selection. And so what was it like for you to develop the original algorithm of the Colby A index?

Like, what did that take? I mean, it was a bit of a fluke. I think I was studying calculus at the time. And my mom, and in a work context, she's always Kathy. But I was pretty young when this was going on. And I didn't work at the company. So it's really, for this story, it's more mom than Kathy, the CEO, founder boss. she knew, well, developing the index was quite a process, firstly.

She knew that she was on to something in terms of there are these patterns that people seem to have in terms of the way they take action. At first, she would figure it out by a combination of observing people do things, you know, take action, solve problems, and interviewing them. and then she would just kind of figure things out in her mind. That's not very scalable. Then it's not super helpful because, oh, my gosh, it's so labor intensive. You have to spend so much time with each person.

So she worked toward, okay, let's put this down into some more test-driven. We like to call it an assessment or an index because when you say test, people assume there's a better score on a test. I mean, you can say there isn't all you want, but our mind. are conditioned to think better or worse on a test. So it's kind of a test. It's not wrong, but it just gives the wrong flavor. So anyway, she got it down into a format where people would answer questions, but she was having a bit of a challenge because the results weren't just linear.

It's not like, okay, add up a score. Like, again, getting back to a test, you take a spelling test. If there are, you know, 10 words and you miss two of them, you get an 80. The scoring couldn't be easier. You know, how much you get right? How many total? There you go. The scoring didn't really work that way.

It was not conveying the right information when you just used a linear function. So since I was kind of, my head was in math stuff, I took a shout at it and figured out how to kind of properly convey the information of where people were by. it's a little complicated, but it's the pattern of where people fall based on their answers and looking at more than just like adding up total numbers and dividing by total questions so that it would properly put people where they are on the spectrum and not give a false impression of like, oh, they're way out on the ends. Well, no, they're not really way out on the ends. Or, oh, they're right in the middle. Well, they're not right in the middle. It needed to be properly spread out?

Super helpful. And, you know, when I think about, you know, my score, so I scored a four on fact finder, a four on follow through out of 10, an eight on Quick Start out of 10, and a four on implementer. And when I took it in a second time, those numbers are pretty consistent. So this is just my natural way of solving problems. And so if I took this when I was 25, years old, do you think that it would be consistent throughout your lifetime? We do. We see,

and we've done a fair amount of research on this, we see that those scores are pretty consistent over time. Plus or minus one, we consider the margin of error. And it will change more than that sometimes, but roughly 80% of the time it doesn't change more than one or two. Okay. And what have you seen in terms of the results of when maybe companies use this or as myself as I'm an entrepreneur or newer? What have you seen the results and how does this help people, you know, be their best more often? Yeah. To me, it really starts with the individual for a couple of reasons. One, it measures an individual thing. You know, it measures you. It's syndrome. So I always encourage people to start with learn about yourself. Again, ancient Greek wisdom know thyself. So the first place we see it,

and yes, most of our clients and most of our revenue at Colby Corp is driven by companies, businesses, But where we see it is just people understanding themselves. So when they apply that to work, but it's really anything that they are putting purposeful striving action into. So it can be work, it can be a hobby, it can be a family, it can be your volunteer activities. But people start to see, oh, this is, and I know you've done a lot of work and talked about flow state and thought about that. this is a component. It's not the whole thing, but it's a component of getting people into their flow state. So for you, once you know your Colby result scores, and let's start with your quick start. So that eight, the higher the number means it's more toward where I started describing each of the action mode. So for you, you start the problem solving process with coming up with ideas, experimenting, trying things out. If you've, if you've, done something the same way six times in a row, I can predict that you will do it differently the seventh time. Even if you've been getting better and better results all first to the six,

you're just going to change things up. I could be wrong. I mean, maybe you're very disciplined and you've got a program and you're like, no, I have to do it the same way 10 times. Okay, there are always exceptions, but you will get into your flow state when you are able to tap into that. So, you know, thinking about you doing physical training as an example, and I was having this conversation with somebody the other day, you need to set challenges for yourself rather than if you think, and this advice you hear all the time, and it's seductively bad advice for you. I should say for you, there are lots of people this is great for, which is part of the reason it's seductive. oh, Cindra, you should be consistent and then planned out and you should have a training regimen that's going to be the same and you can chart for the next year. Like, okay, you're running a marathon year from now. You can map out every single day what you should be doing. And a scientist could

look at it and say, oh, look, we've studied it and we see that this is the optimal training regimen for somebody like you. But the problem is that's not you at the, at the, at the this cognitive level, you need and will almost force some open-endedness, some challenges, some doing things differently. So what I would say is instead of planning out every day for a year, you should set yourself some training goals, shorter term, where you hit them, and then you can let things go sideways for a couple of days or maybe a couple of weeks. I mean, again, you have to be realistic. We do know some things about our body and things that we need to do for optimal training, but you're not a really programmatic, systematic person.

And so you'll get a- This is true. I don't really love systems. Like when someone said, and this also is a problem for my team, or I don't know, maybe I shouldn't think it's a problem, but I have an idea. I just get started with it and my brain doesn't think in systems. And I don't, like if you said, Sandra, you have to today create a system on blank, blank, like, blank. Like, I would want to vomit. I just don't really like even the word systems.

Yeah. Well, it's funny, right? Yeah. And the system part, my fault, I was jumbling up two things. I started with your quick start. The system is really the follow through part. And you at a three or four level in follow through, you're kind of toward the end of the spectrum where you're open-ended. You don't. And I have arguments with people about this one. You shouldn't finish everything. You start. And I know a lot of people think, well, you know, you should finish everything you start. No, you should finish the important things you start. You should finish the things. If you made a promise to somebody, then that's maybe a promise you should keep. But lots of things that we start are not important enough. They aren't promises to somebody else. Nobody's relying on us for them. I'll use an example. So my wife and I are at different ends of the spectrum on this one. She's in a initiating follow-through. So she is, she finishes what she starts. So that's the example here.

I'm at the other end where I leave things open-ended. So what's your number on there then? I'm a two. A two, okay. It was similar to you, but even further out on that spectrum. And I'll give the example, and then I'll say, like, things that we need to be realistic about. The example here is with reading for pleasure, I'll start something. And if I'm not that into it, I'll just give it up.

Like, or, oh, yeah, it was good, but I got everything I think I needed to get out of it in the first two chapters. And then I'll read the last few pages to see, well, wait, did I miss something? And I'm fine with that. My wife. All you do, too. Yeah. All these books I haven't read every single word. Yeah.

Only the ones I really wanted to read. Yeah. My wife, even when it's reading for pleasure, she finishes the book. I mean, if she starts it, I can tell if she likes the book or not by how quickly she gets through it. But if it were me, I would just ditch it and, like, move on to something else. Whereas with her, she finishes. Because she just has that need. Now, what I was going to say, but I kind of stopped, like, David, finish the story.

With spouses, and this is true at work, and we can get into a work context. If I care about my wife, so here's the thing. As a two-and-follow-through, I don't finish everything I start. So, yeah, there are projects around the house where I start them and I don't finish them. And that's fine for me. You know, I personally don't have a need to finish everything. But I live with my wife. And if my unfinished projects are cluttering up the house and the yard, that doesn't go over so well.

And because I care about her and I'm a thoughtful person, you know, most of the time, at least I strive to be. I need to not start everything that I might start because I know that I won't finish them. I need to prioritize the things that are important to her sometimes too. Hey, I need to finish this project because I don't need to. And maybe the house doesn't need me to. Like it's something that it's not like, oh, there's a leak and the plumbing. And if I start it but don't finish it, we still have a leak. But other things, you know, I need to be realistic and thoughtful about that.

Same thing at work. So I think the bottom line to this is your Colby result isn't an excuse. You know, yeah, I'm a two. Very helpful. Yes. I can't tell my boss, oh, yeah, you wanted those reports done on time like every month. Never mind. I don't do that.

Sorry. Right. That's not the world we live in. Now, if you're in a job where your entire job like me and you, because we're similar in this, if you are in a job where your whole role is developing systems and then following them and sticking with the plan, you and I should get a different job. That is not. It doesn't come natural to us.

No, we will not. And we can. So your Colby results are not about what you can and can't do. That's more cognitive. Like just you have the mental capacity. But it's what you will and won't do. So you can buckle down and you can do it. And, you know, you've got grit.

I know. So yes, you get that grit. And you can, ah, I did it. But if you're doing that over and over and over again, you're setting yourself up for failure. Yeah, and I guess I also think about the psychological perspective, like not very much happiness or, you know, feeling like you're on purpose because you're working against what's natural and instinctive to you.

And I could imagine none of my team members have taken the Colbya index yet, okay, but I could imagine that's also really helpful because then I know that, you know, but them knowing like, Cinder's a quick start, she's going to have an idea. They're maybe going to have to hold me back to like make sure that it's actually. what we should follow through with, right? But if I'm not, if I'm a four on follow through, that means, yeah, I'm not the person to think about structure. So someone else on my team, you know, hopefully we have someone that is a higher on follow through that they are the person that kind of leads that charge of the structure because it might not come natural to me.

Yeah. I love that you're seeing that right away because, you know, I said we start with the individual. What does it mean for you, understand it for yourself? It has to go further than that and you're taking the next step, which is, okay, what about the people around me? And so as a leader, sometimes that's, hey, if I'm a great leader, I shouldn't just tell people do it the way I do it and help them do it the way I do it. I should figure out how are those other people going to thrive also? Always in the context of being realistic about different roles and what the organization, you know, the team, the group, whatever level you're talking about, what's going to work for everybody, but what you are seeing immediately that some people, it takes a while

to figure out, we need those different strengths. You can create, and I've seen lots of people who do, they create an organization where they just duplicate themselves over and over again. And in the short term, that often feels really good because, oh, you have a bunch of people that, you know, they talk about it as, oh, we think the same way or we do things the same way. Yeah, but that means you also have big gaps. So you were talking about it if you've got, you've got all these ideas, but if you want the organization to thrive, somebody should make it programmatic. That's how you get efficient.

That's how you provide great customer service. Yeah. You can value great customer service, but you aren't the right person to make sure that your organization develops a way to give it to people. Again, you can lead it in terms of that value. and that's more the affective side of us. You can say, this is so important to us. And maybe it's cognitive even.

Hey, I've looked at the studies. I know that organizations that provide great customer service are more successful. But because customer service is a lot of times about systems and structure, it's also sometimes about lots of detail and information. Hey, let's make sure everything is covered, which maybe is the initiating fact finder. Those areas aren't where you would shine. But man, you better have people on the team that do that. Oh, and I just noticed when I mean, when you got on the call, I wondered what the 8273 was by your name.

I just realized that's your Colby, a index score. So that means you're an 8 on Backfinder, 2 on a follow through 8 on quick start or no, 7. 7. 7. 3 on implementer. Where I'm an 8, I'm a 4484. Hi, this is Cindera Campoff and thanks for listening to the high performance mindset. Did you know that the ideas we share in the show are things we actually specialize in implementing?

If you want to become mentally stronger, lead your team more effectively and get to your goals quicker. Visit free mental breakthrough call.com to sign up for your free mental breakthrough call with one of our certified coaches. Again, that's free mental breakthrough call.com to sign up for your free call. talk to you soon. So is there anything else you want to tell us about? We've talked about follow through a quick start. What about fact finder and implementer? And what does your score mean of an eight on fact finder?

And mine is a four, whereas our implementers is pretty similar. Yeah. So on the fact finder, the difference is that I'm more research, data-driven, I gather and share lots of that. As I was saying before, I kind of start the problem solving process with learning things and facts and figures. Now, people don't always see that because sometimes I've already done that. So if you ask me a question where I feel like, oh, I've already looked into that. I have that information already.

I don't need to go back and do it again. But I'll grab. I love this thing because it connects me to facts and information and detail. and I have to stop myself because other people might get annoyed if I'm, you know, instead of interacting with them, I'm nose down, like, researching, oh, what about this? Looking on your phone. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure.

Not from a social media standpoint, but I use it more for, you know, when I'm watching a movie, I almost can't help myself. It's like, wait, that actor, what were the six things that she's been in already? And, you know, getting those details and information. somebody like you has a lower need for data and information. So again, it's not zero. Even if you were one in fact finder, that doesn't mean don't give me any information.

It just means a lot less. So when you move forward with the project, you're ready to do it. You know, after reading a summary, hey, what's out there? And you can have maybe staff if you've got a team where, hey, give me the briefing. I'm going to look at the first few things.

and then I'm good to go. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Now, as I mentioned, there's no better or worse. I will say that we initiating fact finders are a little arrogant sometimes. I mean, anybody can be, but I'll just own my part here, especially in an arrow before I think the phones where having facts and figures made you look smarter. It didn't mean you necessarily were smarter. You just had facts and figures.

It might mean you have a great memory, but really the smarts, the intelligence part, is about how you analyze and understand that information. So we're setting that aside. So I think the arrogance sometimes from our, from we initiating fact finders is, oh, I know so much about things. I've done research. I have data. But again, that doesn't mean you're smarter about it.

And it also means you might get confused and confounded because you're. because you've got so much information, it can be overwhelming. And, you know, think, I think the best way to understand the other end of the spectrum is simplifying as such a gift. And I think if you describe the other side as, well, that person really has a genius or a strength in simplifying information, then we start to see, oh, my gosh, yeah, like, I'm an Aten Fact Finder. but when I talk with somebody who can lay something out really elegantly without too much, I'm just in awe because I think I can do it, but it's just, it's difficult for me. Again, would that mean, yeah, for sure, would that mean that they have more of a score of like a three or a four?

Yeah, or even a one or a two. Yeah. They're toward that. I figured out the two or three things that are most important in this situation. I'm going to focus on those. Nobody's going to distract me from those one or two or three things, whereas I can get distracted by other information. Like, okay, we're going to move forward.

And then somebody says, oh, you know, David, I read about this other study on this. Like, I don't, you can make up whatever scenario. Like, oh, we're developing AI and we have this plan. That's where we're going to go because that's really important. Oh, but, you know, something just came out about AI yesterday. I'm like, really? And that's my eyes. Spural moment. I will get distracted with more information. Yeah. And I think about how this plays out for me, the

fact finder. Like I think about when I bought my last car. You know, I thought, okay, here's three cars I really like. Let's go test drive. Oh, I really want this one. You know, and I didn't actually like look into all the details of the car. And, you know, it's more just kind of by my gut instinct and what I liked. And, and also, I would have a hard time if someone said, you have to do all the research and make a spreadsheet and figure out, you know, know, all the different parts of the car, I would think that's a waste of time. Right. Because I got to move on to quick start things. Exactly. Yeah. And so one of the interesting, and this is complicated because it doesn't always play out the same. So some of it is, well, these are striving instincts.

So they kick in when you are really engaged, you're striving. for some people, like if you are a car person, then you are going to be striving. Like, you know, you love cards, you care about cars. You're going to be striving when you make that decision on which car to purchase. If you don't really care, like, hey, it's just something that gets me from here to there. You might not see your Colby results or your cognitive instincts kick in one way or another because it's just, it's not, you're not putting much into it.

And same thing, you know, kind of anywhere. If something's more of a hobby or just a sidebar, you won't necessarily see striving instincts. But you often do even in those situations. But yeah, with cars, so like me, I'm not a car guy in the sense of I don't know a lot about cars. But you see my fact finder. It's like, well, this is a big dollar purchase. So I'm going to care about it. And I'll start doing my research.

You know, what do other people say? and oh, let's look at six different dealerships in town to see if I can, you know, where's the better deal? And I can't help myself. And it does make my purchase process slower than, again, I'll use my wife since that's an example for here. She's in that middle range on the fact finder. She needs some information, but she doesn't need all the information. So she's ready to go, yeah, okay, we we figured it out. Great.

Let's do it. And I'm like, no, no, wait, hold on a second. Like there are two other websites that review cars that I haven't looked at. She's like, really? Yeah. Right. Well, I think what's helpful about this, David, is that you can learn to respect other people's differences, right?

This is more of your natural way of solving problems and approaching things. And it's like you can respect, you know, that you just have a different way, right? And you can maybe celebrate each other's strengths a little bit more. Yeah. Yeah. One thing I wanted to ask you, and I know you just did this. well, Kobe just celebrated your 50th anniversary and just released the workplace reality report and which uncovered why 42% of professionals lose a full day of productivity every week, right?

And what leaders can do about it. Tell us a little bit more about your report and how it connects to the, you know, the COBA index results. Yeah. Well, we surveyed over a thousand of our clients and we were trying to figure out, okay, we know that there are these strengths, but part of the question is in the workplace today, how often are people able to really tap into those strengths versus how often do they really feel like they're working against them? Because we know from previous research that we've done, when you work against your grain, so against your strengths, achieving the same amount of work, kind of doing the same amount

of work, takes more energy. Think of it like in physics, if there are lots of, of outside forces, friction, think of it that way, that's getting between you and achieving the work you want to do, it's harder to achieve the same goal. So same thing with work stuff that you have to do. If you have to do it in a way that's not natural for you, yeah, you can do it, but you lose productivity. And the result that you talked about pointed to just that. Most people say they lose a significant amount of time. And, you know, the number you said lose, it's actually more than a day. It was closer to a quarter of their work week.

So, you know, like a quarter, they were operating against their strengths. Two problems. One, we know that leads to inefficiency. But the other thing that we saw in that survey was those people who reported the most amount of time working against their strengths were the most likely to be looking for another job. Oh, of course. And when you, yeah, I mean, it makes sense. It was not a surprising finding. But when you think about the current job market, which is not very good,

if those people are looking for another job in a bad job market, it means they really are feeling the pain. And here's the other thing that I would say, and this wasn't part of the survey, but we've seen this over and over again with our clients. The people who get most frustrated are usually the people you don't want to lose. if you are running a business or leading a team, because they're the people who are actually invested enough mentally that they get frustrated by things not working out,

the people who aren't really invested in it. It's like, I don't love it, but whatever, it's just a job, who cares? You're not getting a lot out of those people anyway. Those are probably the ones that you would like to replace. So it's both self-interested for the company to try, to figure out. And again, I'm a realist. This is not going to be 100% of the time. There are times all of us need to just put our nose to the grindstone and get some stuff done that doesn't perfectly fit who we are. But when it gets to that level of, you know, more than a quarter of their

work week, it's really dangerous that those people are going to burn out. And it's dangerous for the company that you're just not getting nearly as much out of them as you could be. And not in a, this is where it's a win-win. It's not getting. more out of them like, oh, we're squeezing them and grinding them down. It's the opposite of that. You're getting more out of them. And as you were describing, at the same time, they have a better sense of accomplishment and achievement. They love their job. I mean, that's what we really strive for. And I won't get into too much, you know, economic philosophy, but a lot of people have this notion that there's, you know, this inherent opposition between, you know, employers and employees

and the, you know, the leaders, the capitalists, if you want to call it, that they only succeed when they squeeze stuff out of the labor. It doesn't have to be like that. And frankly, successful organizations over the long haul, it is not like that. If that's how your business runs, you're not going to be around for 50 years. You just aren't. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm curious, David, what would be your recommendation? Like, do you suggest that people, you know, take the Colby A index when they're, when they're applying for a job to make sure it's a right fit or, you know, what can leaders do here to make sure they're getting people in the right seats? Yeah. So, yes, for companies, we think it's great when people, when organizations use Colby to figure out. And the key thing is you have to figure out the role. You don't just make assumptions. and then you look at candidates and figure out, okay, who's most likely to fit well in that role? We do it with other parts of the mind.

You know, if you think about on the affective side, understanding your company culture and hiring for people who will fit that culture, very important. Same thing with cognitive. If you are hiring an engineer, you might want to see if this person's a good engineer. They've done the cognitive work, you know, the schooling, the credentialing, maybe some job experience if it's a higher level stuff. that just makes sense. And it's the same thing from a conative standpoint. If you know the role really demands certain cognitive strengths, then yes, people who

fit that better. And it doesn't have to be exact four numbers, like we've talked about our own results, but shouldn't be radically far off. Those people are not likely to succeed over time. And again, it's a benefit for both. People see it most obviously for the company. oh, we're hiring the right person, and they often will think, yeah, but that's, that's so mean,

and it's almost unfair to the people who then don't get the job. But also think of it this way. And I think of it, especially for somebody who's kind of earlier in a career, because we see this a lot. If you hire somebody early in their career and you put them in a role that is a bad fit for them, they are not going to thrive. They are not going to succeed. Their career starts on the wrong track, and it is not their fault. And it's not, the employer didn't do it maliciously. They really wanted it to work out. Absolutely. If you can prevent that person from getting that bad job for them, now, yes, they still need to get a job. So, but hopefully they will find a place that's a better fit for them where they will thrive. So it is better for both parties, really in the long run.

Excellent. Well, one of the other things I wanted to ask you more about David is your new book, do more naturally. And I think it really fits with everything we've talked about today. And I love the title. It makes sense. Tell us more about why you wrote that book and what's the message you really want readers to walk away with. Well, we wrote it because, and I say we, because I wrote it with the president of the company, who also happens to be my sister. We wrote it because we want to help people connect with and understand why does this matter, like understanding your cognitive strengths. And by the way, you don't need to take a Colby index to benefit from reading the book. And the title says so much about what we're trying to get at.

It's people can do more. They can accomplish more, but they can do it more naturally. It doesn't have to be a grind, a slog, something that they dread. They can get into the flow state more. We had a little debate about the title because I was feeling like, and Amy kind of came up with a, name more than I did. I mean, it was a joint thing. But she certainly settled on it first. And I was worried so many people these days are feeling

like I'm already doing so much. I don't want to do more. I want to be able to do less. So I want to explain a little bit. The doing more part is if you're doing it more naturally, number one, you typically will then want to achieve more stuff. People by and large want to achieve things. Now, it might be more personal than professional. When you figure out how to do it more naturally, you actually have more energy left over because you're accomplishing things more efficiently to then devote to other things. So if you don't want to do more at work, well, if you can figure out how to make your work life more efficient, then you have more energy left at the end of the day to do personal things. And similarly with personal stuff, if you feel like, oh my gosh, I'm over-scheduled

will already. I'm not I'm not saying, oh, schedule extra stuff for yourself. I'm saying figure out how to do it in a way that fits you and you will have more energy. You'll have a better sense of accomplishment and you'll be able to achieve big things also. I love it. Well, tell us more about where people can get the index, where people can purchase your book and how can they learn more about everything you've talked about today. Yeah, well, the book, probably best way to get it is Amazon do more, more naturally. David Colby and Amy Bruske are the authors. For kind of everything else, it's Colby.com, and that's K-O-L-B-E.com. You can get the Colby Index. You can get more information about what we do and case studies about clients that we've worked with, everything from, you know,

Fortune 500 companies, education, healthcare, government. So really across the board. And I have to put a little plug in. Almost all of our revenue really comes from the business side of things. But as you can tell from my examples with my wife, and I haven't talked about my kids that much, but I think it's a huge deal for parenting. Again, my plug, it's not a financial plug, but it's, I really hope people understand when you are parenting and when you're a mentor to other people, and that might be in a professional setting. The most important thing is to help the person you are working with. So protege or child, help them figure out what their strengths are. Don't just take it as, well, I know what worked for me, so I'm going to get people to do it like me. Help them figure out who they are.

And then help them develop those strengths and ways to apply those strengths to the things they care about. That's when people will really thrive. And what's the, you know, when I think about my two boys, they are 16 and 18. Is there a time frame that you recommend people take this? Like an age range? Yeah, and we actually have two. We have the Colby Y index for youth. So at about a fifth grade reading level, they can take that. The results are, they don't look the same, but it gets at the same information. And then around senior year in high school, so your boys are getting there, especially when they've had work outside of school, even if it's summer job kinds of things, that's and I think it's the time to switch over and take the Colby A index.

I love it. I love it. Okay, well, I'm going to ask you a few rapid-fire questions to end. Okay, I'm ready. All right. So, David, tell us what you do to recharge. I love to hike. When it's snowy, I love to snow ski, although I've had a couple of snow skiing accidents

that have left me a little more timid that I used to be, but I still love it. I like to play poker, too. I don't do that all that often, but that's weird. I don't know. Is that relaxing? Yeah, it's recharging. Opamine inducing, but it recharges me. I love it.

What would you describe your why as? Like, why do you really do what you do? I do it. I do because people don't understand this part of the mind that drives a third of their mental life. And if they just did, they could do more and more naturally. They could achieve things in a way that fits them better. The world would be a better place. And I could imagine, you know, your mom's legacy also is something that drives you.

Yeah, for sure. And she passed away earlier this year. So that's definitely on my mind. Amazing. Thank you for sharing that. What's one sentence that you hope people remember from this conversation about doing more, more naturally? Well, I haven't said it yet, but I'll say it this way, success is the freedom to be yourself. Oh, wow. Figure it out. And you will be a more successful person. I love it. Success is the freedom to be yourself. Thank you so much for the honor of interviewing you. I really learned a lot more about my whole BA index results and I'm going to have my whole team do it because I think that will help us better understand each other. And I just thank you so much for your wisdom and your energy today and all that you do to offer the world and make the world a better place.

So thank you so much, David. Well, thanks for having me on. It's been great. Way to go for finishing another episode of the high performance mindset. I'm giving you a virtual fist pump. Holy cow, did that go by way too fast for anyone else? If you want more, remember to subscribe. And you can head over to Dr. Sindra for show notes and enjoy my exclusive community for high performers

where you get access to videos about mindset each week. So again, you can add over to Dr. Sindra. That's d R-C-I-N-D-R-A.com. See you next week.