High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 741: How to Speak with Confidence and Purpose with Jess Ekstrom, Founder of Mic Drop Workshop

Episode Date: April 8, 2026

In this episode of The High Performance Mindset, Dr. Cindra Kamphoff sits down with entrepreneur, speaker, and author Jess Ekstrom to explore what it really takes to build confidence, find intrinsic motivation, and share your voice without losing yourself in the process. Jess is the founder of Mic Drop Workshop, where she has helped thousands of women become more confident speakers and step into their voice. Her upcoming book, Making It Without Losing It, focuses on how to stay grounded, purpose-driven, and intrinsically motivated in high-pressure, performance-based environments. At the heart of this conversation is a powerful shift: moving from being a "spotlight speaker"—focused on how you're being judged—to a "lighthouse speaker"—focused on how you can help others.  Jess shares how this shift not only reduces anxiety but also improves performance, authenticity, and impact. The conversation also dives into intrinsic vs. extrinsic motivation, and why chasing outcomes, recognition, or approval can lead to burnout and disconnection. Instead, Jess encourages us to reconnect with purpose, focus on what we can control, and measure success by impact—not applause. This episode is a powerful reminder that confidence and fulfillment aren't built by performing for others—but by staying connected to what truly matters and using your voice to serve.     You'll Learn: • The difference between a spotlight speaker and a lighthouse speaker—and how it changes your confidence • How to shift from outcome-driven thinking to purpose-driven performance • A simple "purpose test" to evaluate your motivation • Why intrinsic motivation leads to more creativity, fulfillment, and impact • How to stay confident and authentic—even in high-pressure environments     Episode Resources & Links Learn more about Jess Ekstrom: https://jessekstrom.com/ Register for the Mental Performance Summit April 17th:  https://mentalperformancesummit.org/ Learn more about the Mentally Strong Institute: https://mentallystronginstitute.com/ Request a Free Mental Breakthrough Call: https://freementalbreakthroughcall.com/ Download the Confidence Research Study: https://confidencestudy.com/

Are you ready to perform at your best, especially when the pressure is the highest? That's exactly why I created a mentor performance summit. This is a fast-paced virtual experience on Friday, April 17th, where you'll learn the exact mental tools elite athletes use to stay focused, confident, and resilient when it matters the most. Now, we're bringing together world-class mentor performance coaches who don't just talk about mindset. They train it every day.

They've worked with the Chicago Cubs, the Arizona Diamondbacks, the New York Yankees, the Minnesota Vikings, the Boston Celtics, and the Tampa Bay arrays. And here's what's different. You won't just feel inspired, but you walk away with practical tools that you can use immediately. So if you want to build confidence, strengthen your mindset, and gain the competitive edge, then this is for you. Save your spot right now at mentalperformance summit.org. That's mentalperformance summit. And guess what? Registration is only $39. And you're going to get a copy of my upcoming book called The Confidence Habit delivered to your door when it launches.

Again, that's mentalperformance summit.org. I can't wait to see you there. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. I'm so excited to welcome Jess Extram here on the podcast. How are you doing, Jess? I've been following. Thanks for having me. I know.

I can't wait to talk to you. So thank you so much for joining us. And I have a quick question to start. Why do you think people should keep listening to our episode today? Oh, my gosh. I love how you cut right to it. I try not to give any kind of like cookie cutter answers. I am pretty real and honest.

If anyone's familiar with my work, might have like, I can't like should have said that. So stick around if you want an honest conversation. I love it. And today we're really going to be focusing on these ideas of confidence. how do we continue to build intrinsic motivation and your book coming out, making it without losing it. I can't wait to talk to you about that. And we're going to be talking about public speaking in general and the different ways people can keep growing their public speaking ability. And, you know, Jess, I recently read that there's more of a fear of public speaking than death, right? That public

speaking is the number one fear. So a lot of people really struggle with that and worry about what other people might think. And so they don't always share their message or feel comfortable doing that. Yeah. I think it was Jerry Seinfeld that said most people would rather be in the casket than giving the eulogy at a funeral. And I understand. I mean, when you think about how we grew up, like I always think about like the school spelling bee. I mean, what a terrifying public speaking situation where you like can't get a letter wrong. And so our early days of public speaking are so. high stakes, we're being graded, a school play, presentation, whatever it might be. And so we're made to believe that like public speaking is about performing and being perfect. And what I've found, you know, my company's mic drop workshop, we've helped thousands of women become either paid keynote speakers or speak more confidently at work. And there's this one shift that I actually give my TED talk about. And it's the difference between being a spotlight speaker and a lighthouse speaker.

And I think if you can understand this shift before you speak, not only are you going to be less nervous, you're going to be so much better of a public speaker. A spotlight speaker goes on stage, scanning the room, wondering how they're being perceived. How do I look? How do I sound? What do people think of me? Does this person hate me? He hasn't smiled once. Why did this person not laugh at my joke? this person's on their phone, and it is absolutely draining and nerve-wracking.

So a spotlight speaker, the spotlight is on them, and they ask, what does everyone think of me? Whereas a lighthouse speaker shifts the light from themselves to the audience and isn't concerned with how they're being perceived, they're concerned with how helpful they're being. And so if a spotlight asks, what does everyone think of me? then a lighthouse asks, what does everyone need of me? Like, where are they struggling? Where are they at? And what ways in my story or what I know can help them?

And so when you have this mindset of being a lighthouse speaker, it's less about being perfect and more about being helpful. And so I've just, I literally, before I speak, I truly sounds like very woo-woo, but visualize, like shifting the light from myself to the audience and just, I just, I literally, I literally, saying it's not about me. It's about them. And that also means sometimes the stories we share and the things that we say are not the stories that put us in the best light. They're the ones that are most helpful for the audience to hear. And some of our like best lessons come from our worst moments. So that's just one tip that I hope can be helpful as a speaker, whether you're

doing it professionally or just in everyday life. I love that distinction, Lighthouse Speaker versus spotlight speaker. And I think about when I started keynoting, this might have been about 10 years ago, I tried to be perfect and, you know, I tried to be like my mentors. And then I quickly realized, look, and I was trying to be perfect that I really wasn't myself. And when I was just authentic, I, you know, that's how I and most people connect with others, right, when they're just their true self. And so, for me, it's less about the ums or the a's or, you know, saying things perfectly. I just kind of put my hand on my heart before I start, you know, just like to channel the people and why I am there. And that's really not about me.

So it's one strategy I use. I love that everyone has their own thing. And, you know, some people it's breathing, some people it's a visualization. I love the hand on your heart and just like groundedness that comes with that. Absolutely. So when I think about your book, making it without losing. it. And I know you're really focused in this upcoming book about helping people tap into their intrinsic motivation. Tell us, in your own words, the difference between intrinsic motivation

and extrinsic motivation and how it connects to high performance. And then we'll dive into more of the speaking as we go through. Yeah. So extrinsic motivation, I call it like mustivation. Like, I must do this. I must do it because of this person or this title. But intrinsic motivation is want to ame ameitamation it is like doing it from a place of interest or impact and i get that that can be tough to do in a corporate environment when you're like but i'm here for the extrinsic you know i need the job i need to get paid uh i'm not here because i just like love selling like i gave this talk at craft hines and someone was like well what do i do when i'm just like it's ketchup You know, it's not like I feel like I'm saving the world. And it requires an effort on our end, which is what I speak about and what this book is about, is like, how do we learn to wire ourselves to be intrinsically motivated at work when it's not obvious? So how do we learn to truly connect the tasks that we do every day to the humans behind it? Maybe we're in a position where we're not directly communicating with the people that we've.

benefit or the people on the other side of it. But there's ways to kind of draw those connections. I like to think of, did you ever read the book, Sparkjoy, Marie Kondo's book? Yes, I did. Okay. And then it was like her like video series and that was so fun. I loved it as someone who hates clutter. I loved it. And one of the things that she talked about in her book is like, you know, because her whole thing was you, you know, hold it to your chest, to your item, and then you have to decide, does this item spark joy? If not, get rid of it. And, but what about like a hammer or stapler that maybe doesn't spark joy, but you can't get rid of it because you need it. And it's sometimes the same thing with our

work where it's like, yeah, maybe like doing this spreadsheet is like a hammer. It doesn't spark joy immediately. But you have to think, well, this hammer helped me build my daughter's bookshelf or this stapler helped me like submit the legal papers that let us buy our house. And so sometimes it just requires a few extra steps of thinking to be able to like get excited about the boring things or things that might feel like, I really don't want to do this. And so that's where intrinsic motivation comes to play because it's not our default. In fact, it's like a very concerted. effort. And I think about intrinsic motivation. I think of like a deep purpose or a why, you know, and I work with a lot of elite athletes, Jess, some like PhD is a performance psychology. And I think

about how the best have this like deep desire to like to they and they're willing to make sacrifices, right? To yeah, to. But if they are just having this care at the end, like a gold medal or making it to the NFL, like, that's actually the outcome that they can't, they can't control it. So, you know, when I think about extrinsic motivation, like so many of things that maybe keep us going are outside of our control, which is dangerous. Because then if you, if you know, and I just said one of our coaches provided this acronym the other day. I thought it was really good. It's called NATO, not, not attached to outcome. I really thought that was great because I think of extrinsic is like small outcome focus do you agree and um if so like what would you tell people

to do if they become really outcome focused yeah okay i'll give you an example i talk about this in um making it without losing it it's a test that we can all take right now and okay if you imagine the thing that you're like really chasing in your life um maybe you know a job, whatever, like the thing that you're like waking up every day really going after, imagine that you got it. It's yours. You got the email. You got the letter. Whatever. But no one knew it was you. You had to remain anonymous. You couldn't put your name on it. Would you still do it? And so it's this kind of like, call it the purpose test where it's this gut check of, am I doing something based on how it looks or based on it feels? And there's definitely

things in my life where if my name wasn't on it, I wouldn't do it. If I couldn't tell everyone about it, I wouldn't do it. But then there's things in my life where like helping women get on stage, I don't care if my name is on that. I would do it anyway because it's so meaningful to me. So I just like to sometimes stop what I'm doing and like run the purpose test real quick. And it Also, talking about, like, things that are outside of your control, I think that's, like, such a great point. And I like to think of how I'm setting my goals. So, for example, this book, you know, coming out, I could say my goal is to be a New York Times bestseller. But that is a goal that is uncontrollable and out of my reach.

Or I could say, my goal is to write a book that I think is really great. or write a book that I really care about. And that is within my control. So if your goal setting is you have no control over the outcome, that could be a really slippery slope. And I've been there. I, you feel like you're attaching yourself worth to like a roller coaster being operated by a 12 year old at a fair.

You just like have no control over it versus goals that you can control that are like, I'm going to write a run a 5K, not I'm going to win a 5K. And so it's just kind of interesting some of these shifts that you can make and how you even talk to yourself about what you want. And most of us, I don't think, are even realizing that we maybe are focusing on our goals and what kinds of goals we're really going after or, you know, most people don't write their goals down. I'm curious, what did you learn, Jess, as you were like doing their research on intrinsic

and extrinsic motivation? What do you learn about? What does the research say about it in terms of like why we should have more of this intrinsic motivation? And I'm kind of like a nerd because I'm thinking about like this self-determination theory, which we probably don't want to get into. Oh my gosh. The fact that you said self-determination theory, I love you already. I love that theory. But yeah, the research.

We'll see how much we want a nerd out here, you know. Well, if you have ever thought about a moment where. you know, sometimes there's things that we feel like we have to do that feel really daunting to us, like, oh, no one I want to open my computer on a Sunday and do this thing. And then there's times where we wake up early to open our computer on a Sunday. And so it's like, well, what is the difference between those times where we're really eager to do the work versus the times that we're dreading it? And there was a study in the Harvard Business Review around willpower and how it showed that willpower is actually, you know, I have for anyone who's watching, I have this huge water bottle right here because I'm

terrible at drinking water. But it used to, we used to think, well, willpower is like how much gas you have in the tank and then it depletes as the day goes on where this study showed that willpower is less of a depleted resource and more of an emotion that we feel. And so emotions are connected to like something bigger than just like a depleted resource. It's connected to a purpose or feeling. So when willpower happens, it might not be because we got like a good night sleep and our gas is full in the tank. It's because we can connect the effort to a purposeful outcome. So when you feel that extra drive, it's usually because it's connected to something. I call it like the difference between anxious ambition and inspired ambition. We've all like

felt the time when you're working on something and the creativity isn't there. You're not in flow. It feels really daunting. And it's like wringing out a towel and just like waiting like for the drops to get onto the paper or something. You're just like, ah. And it's usually this anxious ambition that happens when we work because we feel from a place of being behind or from a place of comparison or from a place of like extrinsic gain. But inspired ambition is those times when we work when we maybe hit that state of flow. We're really collaborative, we're really critical thinkers. And it's because we're working from a place of making something better or working from a place of deep interest or impact. And so the study in the academic press showed that

when employees at work are intrinsically motivated, they're more creative. They have more critical thinking skills. They're more collaborative. They're less ego driven because the obsession is in the problem that they're solving, not the outcome that they're hoping for. It's like, how do we solve this problem? Sarah Blakely, who I'm obsessed with is such a perfect example of this. Like, all of her businesses from Spanx to Sneaks are obsessions with problems, like seeing the panty line in your shorts or not being able to walk in a pair of heels. It's really uncomfortable.

She's obsessed with problems. And so her outcomes are so great because she's, so problem focused, so intrinsically motivated. And so yeah, I just love watching people who have an admiration for the problem instead of just waiting for the perfect outcome. One of the things I think is really interesting about Sarah Blakely's psychology. And you probably know this story, but I heard her during an interview with Tony Robbins or she was talking about how her dad would always ask her the same question every day when she got home from school, like you're on the dinner table. And the question was, how did you fail today? So instead of like how, you know, what went well

or, you know, what's great, it was like, how did you fail? And she said that that's how she learned to like pick herself back up. And it's interesting, like you wonder if those early conversations about failure impacts or intrinsic motivation, right? Because I think of like how it's so easy to like experience fear of failure and then people don't take risks or go for it. Or maybe they're They're not obsessed with problems in the same way that you're, you know, you're describing. Yeah, I love that. And as someone who's raising a one-year-old and a three-year-old, it makes me, like, really think about how I'm giving them a space to fail because it's so easy to be like, well, let me just tire shoe for, you know, let me just do this for you because you never want them to experience, like, suffering is a strong word. But you know, you never want them to experience anything other than good.

But it's so positive for them to feel that way. Like, you know, we're in a funny phase right now where like my daughter, my three-year-old is very pro-feeling, pro-touching, and my son wants nothing to do with her. So she just runs full force in the morning like, Jack, you make, let me. give you a hug and he just Heisman like one arm like stiff arms her and she just like oh and I feel so bad because I'm like she just wants a hug and I have to explain to her that like just not everyone wants to be touched you know especially first thing in the morning and sometimes you just have to ask people if they want to be and I'm like you know just for kind of one of the first times watching her feel discomfort that I want to take away and I realize my goal is

not to make Jack hug her, my goal is for to help her be okay with the rejection of not being hugged. Yeah, that's great. That as a parent has been really illuminating for me. Yeah, and that's great because, I mean, if you don't teach her that, you know, at some point she's going to have to figure that out because not everybody wants to be touched or, you know, have that physical touch. So I'm curious, Jess, when you think about your book, your upcoming book and extrinsic motivation, right? So your upcoming book making it without losing it. Tell me how this connects to like speaking and your work at mic drop. I'm curious when you think of people who've come into your world and want to be speakers, like how does you think their motivation impacts them to like keep going or stop?

Yeah. I'm so curious your answer to this too because you are a speaker where I think I had, you know, we write the books that we need the most. I feel like we teach the things that we needed to learn. And speaking is such a hilariously extrinsic industry. It is literally working for applause and standing ovations. Like I can't imagine something more. And I don't get me wrong. I love how impactful it can be. But it is so easy. to get swept up and well i didn't get a standing ovation here or you know this like how you're being perceived um and it's a lot of rejection i mean i am i don't say this like in a gloating way but i'm one of the most top you know book speakers uh women in the world right now and i still get rejected all the time um and so like one of the you know i think the spotlight lighthouse thing when it comes to like intrinsic you're being a lighthouse extrinsic you're being a spotlight but also just um i was just talking to someone about this how you know with my book it feels and i don't know if you feel this way where you're like sometimes just have a little bit of like

oh do i really want to promote something i did you know do i really want to quote sell myself and uh i'm having those like feelings around my book and the author i was talking to selina Rezboni. She's like multiple Wall Street Journal bestseller. She's amazing. She's like, but if your book is really helping people, then you're not selling you. You're selling the help. And so I think that with speaking or with writing, it can feel so personal because it's you, but you are just the vessel. Like you're not the message. And so sell the message, sell the value and recognize that if it's, they reject you, it's, they're not rejecting you. You. as a person, they're saying the message isn't the right audience fit.

And that's a lot easier of a pill to swallow than being like, they hate me, you know? Right. And so, yeah, I think it's such a journey for speakers being, struggling to be intrinsically motivated in such an intrinsically facing job. Yeah. That's so true. And I agree that it's like, why am I a speaker? you know, I got involved, actually, I wanted to work for the Minnesota Vikings as their mental

performance coach, which I ended up doing for four years. And so I got involved in speaking to become more comfortable in front of football teams. And then it just, I started going to my local NSA, the National Speakers Association chapter. And then I started seeing like people who were, because I, some of my analogies when I'm keynoting are like, it's about like sports. Right? Yeah. And the work I've done in sports. And I would see these people that are all kind of doing something similar.

I'm like, oh, can I, can I do that? You know? But I think how I connect to what you just said is if I'm focused on what they think about me or the ego or if I'm focused on if they like it or not, then I'm completely, you know, I feel like I'm, I'm more disconnected from the audience. Yeah. Because it's like it's just not really about me. It's, you know, I'm telling stories to help you make an insight into your own life.

Even though it might be a story about my life, it's still like I'm telling you the story for you. Yeah. What about speaking to sports teams being a woman going out of professional athletes? What is that like when you feel like you probably have to prove yourself harder than other male speakers? Yeah. I would say like the first time I didn't. front of a sports team. Like I do a lot of work in football. And so I just started working with a new football team, a new college football team last year. And the first time that I got in front of them,

like, you have to, I'm like, all right, it's go time. Like I have to bring out everything. You know, like why I think mental performance is really important to them. And, you know, like, I got a, I got to show them, you know. And so it kind of helps me like level up a little bit. Yes. because it's kind of like you've got to make it or break it. And if you don't get buy in that first time, it's really hard. You know, because if you lost, you know, their trust or their buy-in, every time gets more difficult. So it's almost kind of like, how do I want to say it? Like it's kind of like make it or break it, let's go.

Like I level up because of that challenge. Yeah. I love that. I always get, you know, I speak to both men and women. but, you know, I speak a lot in male-dominated industries. Like, I do a lot in insurance and finance. And I always, like, need a little bit more of a pep talk when I, to myself, when I walk into a room that is mostly male. Yeah.

And I know I'm making generalizations right now. And there's a bunch of men out there that don't think twice about having a woman give advice or be a speaker. But it has, yeah, I was just curious, your experience. with that because it's something that I've worked on too. Yeah. Yeah. And that gets me to our conversation about confidence. And I'd love to learn more about that from your perspective, like this imposter syndrome and confidence. And how have you continue to like grow your confidence as you're speaking more? Yeah. I think it's so interesting. You know, in my 20s, I felt like I was just like

data gathering about myself. And It's such an uncomfortable place to be because you really just don't have any kind of evidence or certainty around yourself. And so you just have to be able to put a scientist hat on. I'm actually giving like the commencement address for the high school, my graduation, their graduation this year. And so I'm thinking a lot about that time in my life. And I'm like, yeah, you just really have to like remove your ego and act like a researcher in your life in your 20s. And then in my 30s, I am now, you know, have a little bit more of a sharpened sense of direction of like what I feel like I'm good at, what sets me on fire and what I never want to do again. And then from there, my confidence is evidence gathering.

And so I know now when I go on a stage, like, I'm not wondering if I can do this. I know I can do this because I have enough evidence that shows that I can, whether that's in the form of experience, testimonials, people who, you know, whatever, or just a sheer feeling. And so I think like whatever it is that you want to do or gain confidence in, finding ways to get the reps, get the confidence because it comes from repeated action, I think not in like, thinking or thought. So, for example, you know, obviously at Microp, we help women become great speakers, but, you know, we're virtual and we do this all over the world. We do have in-person conferences, but I was like, we need a place where women can practice and get the reps and get the evidence before they get on stage. And so we created something called Mike Drop Club and we have about like 35 cities. And we do it virtually as well. But it's safe places for women to practice public speaking so that they can get the

evidence to go do the big things. Because I think that that's it. It's like going back to sports analogies for you, it's so much of muscle memory and just knowing that you can do it. Like throwing the football once really hard, doing it 2,000 times after that, you have now evidence stacked against you or stacked for you. And I think for me speaking and like starting businesses, it's no different. I've started things that I've failed.

And I think I have evidence. that it's never that's never going to be the end of me. I have evidence that I can pick myself back up and try again. So things don't feel as detrimental or final. Because you just start to gather evidence of like you just know what you're made of. And I can't wait to see, you know, I still feel early in this. So I can't wait to see what like my 40s and my 50s bring in parenting too is no different. Like I'm very early in my evidence. So I don't have a ton of confidence in parenting right now because my kids are one and three. I don't have enough under my belt. I don't know if people feel confident as parents. Like, does that ever happen? I don't know.

It is. And then what happens, at least for me, because my boys are older now, they're in their teenage years. But then it's like you're going through all these different steps with them, right? And like your parenting changes, actually, least minded or, you know, what they need from you. changes. Yeah. That's what I hear is that like it doesn't get easier, but the hard just changes. The needs change. You know, everything's changing. Well, I love that idea of confidence and repeated action. And I have a book coming out September 1 all around confidence. And people have been asking me, like, why did you write a book on confidence? And I wrote it because like, that's the number one people come. Didn't reason people come to me. And you might think that, well, okay, she works

as professional athletes or executives or, you know, all these different types of leaders that, you know, that they won't, they don't lack confidence. But it can come and go and you can have a setback. Let's say, you know, one of us has like a tough speaking engagement where we just didn't really feel like we hit home, right? You got to continue to build your confidence back up and go back to what the evidence actually says. Because so many times that voice inside our head says, well, they're not going to like it or, you know, I'm not blank enough. You know, there was one event I did about a year ago and I did three events at the school, like with this staff. And the first event I went, the first time I was there, there was a guy kind of sitting in

the back just looked like he wasn't interested at all, you know, like his hands were crossed. And then the second time I went, he's still sitting like that, but he came up to me afterwards. And he's like, I wanted to let you know that one of your tools like changed my life. And I've been able to go, he wasn't sleeping and he was always waking up in the middle of the night and like just really cranky and used one of the tools. And I was like, what? You know, like in my head, I was thinking like he could care less of what I was talking about, which that wasn't even the truth.

Right. So your own thoughts aren't true. And the way you might perceive other people in the audience isn't true either. Oh my gosh. It's so true. What a beautiful story. Like, man, I usually have this comic here and I can't find it. My sister sent it to me.

It's this speaker. My sister sent it to me. And this illustration of a speaker, she's talking. Everyone in the audience is like laughing, cheering. And one person is just like straight face, like, you know, mean. And of course. Thought bubble is they hated me. Because she's focused on the one speaker that's,

like not giving her the interaction that she wants. And I always like, you know, keep it close by, except not now because it's a good reminder for me that either I'm not always going to get 100% approval rating. That's okay. And also like sometimes I'm wrong. You know, I spoke one time for the Las Vegas police force and it was just like the most stoic room. And I was like, oh my gosh, they hate me. Afterwards, I was spent like two hours there talking to all of these men and women because they loved it so much. And I was like, wow, I really let me trying to interpret the room get in the way of me delivering

to the room. And so, you know, a lot of people say to read the room and I just, I think there's times and places to read the room. I don't know if speaking is necessarily one of them because it's really, sometimes you make moves and changes when you don't have to, or let your confidence, like, get in the way of that. And so I love that story. That's so amazing. Well, even that case with the, should you say the LA police department, right? Like, you can be in your head and, and overthink things, right? Instead of like trusting that you have a powerful message. When you think about how you might teach this

in the mic drop, you know, your work there, how do you teach women to be more calm? confident speaking on stage because I think it's, I think it is one of the reasons people don't speak as much. Or maybe they don't want to get on stage, but they don't, they want to speak more as a leader. Or have opportunities to share a message with confidence. The first thing I would suggest that you do, no matter if you want to build a keynote or you're giving a presentation at work, is we in Mike Drop call it a transformation promise. And it's thinking about the aftermath. of your talk, not the content of your talk. So a transformation promise looks like after people hear me speak, they will blank. What will they think, feel, or do differently? Because my talk will blank. Are you going to tell a story? Are you going to explain a concept? Are you going to, you know, teach a framework? And so it helps people create a North Star for their talk. And so it's not as much of what do I say? It's how do I help people arrive here? And then you work backwards. Okay, well,

if my transformation promise is helping people feel more confident, then what are all the subcategories people need to feel confident? They probably need to learn like inner dialogue, how you talk to yourself. They probably need to learn about collecting evidence. They probably need to learn about how to come back from failure. And so all of a sudden, like that North Star creates your talk. So create your transformation promise is the first thing I would say. I love it. I love it. And when you think about particularly women, I know you've founded the mic drop workshop, right, specifically to empower women in public speaking because only less than 30% of speakers are women. Yeah. Why do you think confidence and our voice gets tangled up,

especially as women? I think one, it's just representation of not seeing it. I mean, even when you go back to like when you were in school and you learn the presidents, you're like softly, maybe not softly, but you're learning what you, quote, can and can't do or what people who look like you can and can't do. And so I think the confidence part comes from lack of representation. It also comes from just systemically being a hold that we're too loud. We're in our one of our trainings, like, you know how you type something into Google and it like tells you what the most common, like it finishes the search for you. Oh, sure. You put in, we put in like women's voices are and all of the things were negative, annoying, loud, obnoxious, shy. And so it's just a lot of course correction right now.

And I mean, a lot of women are up for the challenge. you can't fault a woman for also being a little bit like when you're pioneering something and being the first like it's 2026 and I am still getting told I'm the first woman that they've had at keynote their conference. And so it is we are still in the pioneering phase right now. So many things are just not that long ago that happened like being able to have a credit card or own a home. And so I think so much of it is just like representation and course correcting. And so of course we're going to feel a little bit insecure in that, especially when speaking has this like connotation of coming from a place of expert.

But I think that's also a myth I wanted to spell is that being a public speaker doesn't mean you're coming from a place of like all expert. It means you're coming from a place of excited curiosity. So my talk, I am not an expert in intrinsic, in extrinsic motivation, or I'm not a motivation expert. It's something I feel like I'm 10% ahead on than the rest of the group. And I'm excitedly curious to keep exploring that knowledge. And so I am always like, we talked about self-determination theory. I'm always like kind of looking at what are things that are either my lived experience or research.

AI has been a great tool for that to find more research. But I would also just like this expert status barrier, I think, is really getting in the way of women getting more keynote spots on stages, not just from getting selected, but from women not applying because there's this qualification checklist that doesn't exist that they're running themselves through. And it's in their own mind. It's not necessarily, right? Because I think about all the speakers that I've heard that I've been most moved by, particularly women's speakers, I don't know if they were an expert, quote, unquote, right? They moved you. They made you. They had a story. They had a story, right? Yeah, they made change within you. Mm-hmm. Totally. I think when you think about, I think that's another shift with speaking, what you said, they made a change within you. I was working with a speaker recently. I was working with a speaker recently. and watching her footage. And at the end of her talk, I was like, wow, she's amazing.

But that was actually problematic because after a talk, as a listener, I shouldn't say she's amazing. I should say I'm amazing. I can do that. And so as a speaker, sometimes we get, and I used to do this all the time. It's like, how do I put myself in the best light? how do I make myself feel or seem important when at the end of the day it is the person who's listening that should feel amazing at the end of it. Of course they can think you're amazing too, but the number one feeling an audience member should have after hearing you speak is,

I'm amazing. I can do it. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that is, I love that idea because it's so you're taking the focus away from you. And again, what you said about the transformation promise. and like, what are you doing for the people, right? If you could give us one or two more sort of tips for speaking, what would you, what would you say for those people who are listening and are like, oh, I want to do more of this? I would say, as far as finding opportunity, LinkedIn is such a great resource. So if you're not on LinkedIn, I would make that. And I know that like you're like, one more thing I have to do.

But LinkedIn is becoming a search engine for professional opportunity. So I definitely get on LinkedIn. You can also find me there. And the other thing that I would say that is really helpful, it's a small thing that makes a big impact. We call it your start button and is how you start your talk. And your start button should be a story that not only breaks the ice for your audience, but breaks the ice for yourself. So I have a lot of speakers that come and they're like going to open their story with like a super traumatic thing that happened in their. you know, life or something really heavy. That can work for people, but holy cow, I would be

so nervous backstage thinking that the first five minutes of my talk is going to be something that is like emotionally heavy. And so your start button can be like a childhood story or something funny that led you to care about this topic. And then also introduces like why we're all here. what's a personal story that's happened to you. And one that you're excited to tell. And you would be amazed at how just focusing on that opening story, that start button, can change your whole nerves, change the tone and just really set the pace for the room. I love it. So a childhood story, something about knowing your fear.

I prefer childhood stories because, like, everyone was child once. It's so easy to inject humor. Yeah. And it's such a formative time. So I love a good childhood story. I talk about selling like all my toys on eBay and, you know, the start of my entrepreneur career and stealing my sister's toys and selling them on eBay. And like it's, I'm excited to talk about it because it's funny and it like sets the tone for the room.

Awesome. Tell us how people can learn more about Mike Drop Workshop and your new book coming out. Tell us more about that. You can go to Mike Drop Workshop.com. We have a free training that you can take just to kind of get your feet wet. So check out micdropworkshop.com. You can also go micdropworkshop.com slash club, see if we have a chapter near you to just practice public speaking. And then you can buy making it without losing it.

I prefer sending you to a local bookstore. So see if your local store can order it for you. Otherwise, it's where, you know, anywhere you can find. And then I also send out a test. every Monday. That's just kind of a quote to start your week. That just something to think about, noodle on for the week. So if you want to be on that, you can text me the word hype to 704-228-945. That's hype to 704-2-28-945. And that's not like a robot platform. I actually go in and read and respond to texts when I can. So you can also tell me what you thought of this episode. I would

love to hear from you. Awesome. 704-228-94. 95. I just wrote it down. Jess, this was so fun. I loved talking to you. I love the way that you can make things so understandable and easy to relate. So I really appreciate that about our conversation. And I wrote down a few notes that I just want to repeat. So people like, okay, here's the things that set out to me. I love that we talked about motivation today and the difference between extrinsic and intrinsic and you talked about like this purpose test as a way to kind of think about willpower is more of an emotion and a feeling, which I think is super interesting. We talked about being a spotlight speaker or a lighthouse speaker. A lighthouse, okay? I stalled that wrong on my notes. No, you're

totally fine. Yeah, lighthouse speaker. Yeah. And then when we talked about just even the way, the transformation promise, I loved that. Competence comes from repeated action we talked about. And just, you know, see your suggestions there about breaking the ice with a great story, or perhaps a childhood story. And, of course, all of us stuff we talked about related to imposter syndrome and confidence. So, Jess, thank you so much for being on the high performance mindset. I loved our conversation and everyone should go to micdropworkshop.com.

Awesome. Thank you for having me. Way to go for finishing another episode of the high performance mindset. I'm giving you a virtual fist pump. Holy cow, did that go by way too fast for anyone else? If you want more, remember to subscribe. And you can head over to Dr. Sindra for show notes and enjoy my exclusive community for high performers, where you get access to videos about mindset each week.

So again, you can add over to Dr. Sindra. That's d R-C-I-N-D-R-A.com. See you next week.