High Performance Mindset | Learn from World-Class Leaders, Consultants, Athletes & Coaches about Mindset - 92: Dial In and Focus with Dr. Duncan Simpson, Mental Conditioning at IMG Academy

Episode Date: March 13, 2017

Duncan Simpson, Assistant Head of Mental Conditioning at IMG Academy, is passionate about working with people to maximize their potential and help them accomplish what they haven’t. In this interview, he talks about how focus, not confidence, is the most important mental skill. The best focus on the right things at the right time. The key is to detect distractions and dial in for 1 minute. Duncan describes that confidence is a belief state. Confident is not an emotional state. It doesn’t matter how you feel. When we are performing, there is no reason to change how we feel. Instead, he suggests we move on and shift our focus. Towards the end of the interview, he describes that motivation is a lie. It is discipline that is key to high performance. Other gems that Duncan discussed include: His “Time Machine” exercise 4 parts of a routine: physical, technical, tactile, and mental. How to layer imagery His epic failure that helps him get to where he is today. Head over cindrakamphoff.com/Duncan for a description and summary. You can follow Duncan on Twitter @SportPsychDunc or email him at [e-mail].

Welcome to High Performance Mindset with Dr. Sindra Kampoff. Do you want to reach your full potential, live a life of passion, go after your dreams? Each week we bring you strategies and interviews to help you ignite your mindset. Let's bring on Sindra. Welcome to the High Performance Mindset Podcast. This is your host, Sindra Kampoff, and I'm grateful that you're here today, ready to listen to an interview with Duncan Simpson. Each week on the podcast, we work to provide you two things. First, a short strategy session, about 10 minutes long or so, that provides one specific strategy or tool that

you can implement today to improve your performance. And those strategy sessions are usually radio interviews that I do on Monday mornings with TJ and Lisa. Again, super short, something that you can implement today. And then we also work to provide you an interview. And the interview is really designed for us to learn from the world's best athletes, coaches, leaders, and consultants. And the interview is all focused on the topic of mindset to help us reach our potential or be high performers in our field or sport. And this week, Duncan Simpson, he brought it. He brought the energy, he brought the knowledge, and he brought the. He brought the energy. He brought the knowledge. And he brought the really specific, tangible tools that we can use.

So Duncan Simpson is assistant head of mental conditioning at IMG Academy. And he is passionate about working with others to maximize their potential, help them accomplish things that they haven't. And this interview, he talks about how he sees focus, not confidence, as the most important mental skill. And I asked him a lot of questions about that. It was a really good discussion. He talked about how we tend to see confidence as an emotional state, but really it's a belief state. He cares more about what we focus on and less about how we feel. So he describes what focus really is, how we can get

back our focus when we're distracted. And he provides lots of other gems in this interview. He talks about his time machine exercise, super good. And then how to layer imagery. And then he talks about his epic failure that helped him get to where he is today. My favorite part of this interview is his quote, which is this, motivation is a lie. Motivation comes and goes. It's discipline. quote, which is this, motivation is a lie. Motivation comes and goes.

It's discipline. Instead, that is key. If you liked this interview, if you find it helpful, could you please go over to iTunes? It would help us tremendously to get a rating there or a comment. That rating just helps us reach more and more people. So if you listen to this podcast regularly, or you're just tuning in today. And liked the interview.

Please man that would mean so much to us. So head over to iTunes. And then we'd love to hear what you thought about this interview. Duncan and I are both on Twitter. Pretty active Twitter users. So you can head over to there. Tell us what you thought about the interview. What was important to you?

What's one thing that stood out to you? Duncan's Twitter handle is Sports Psych Dunk. So D-U-N-C and mine is at mentally underscore strong. So again, thanks so much for joining us. And without further ado, let's bring on Duncan. I'm here with Dr. Duncan Simpson from IMG Academy. And Duncan, I'm just so excited that you're here, ready to join us for the High Performance Mindset. Thanks so, so much, Cinder. It really is an honor to be on the podcast. I've listened to, I think, every single one of the interviews so far.

So I'm just really honored to be a guest. I'm honored and excited to have you. You know, one of the reasons I wanted to have you on is because every time I hear you speak at our sports psychology conference, which is ASP, the Association for Applied Sports Psychology, I'm always blown away by your presentation. I always learn something. So I know that I am going to learn a lot today. I have my notebook and my pen ready for you. I appreciate that. So Duncan, just to get us started, tell us a little bit about how you got to where you are. You're now the Assistant Head of Mental Conditioning at IMG. So just kind of take us through a little bit of journey of how you got there.

I would say a little bit of luck and a lot of hard work, which is a good combination to have. I'm originally from the UK, so I did my undergrad and master's in the UK. And just by coincidence, I was looking to come over to do my PhD in the US and dropped an email to Angus Mugford probably over 10 years ago now. And I didn't know Angus, and he kind of said something about a GRE test, which I'd never heard about. And so I looked up what a GRE was and found out I could take one a week later and literally took the GRE and got into grad school so when I say luck it really was luck that I sent an email and Angus decided he replied and we've since

become friends and colleagues which you know it's, it's a small field, but really great coincidence. So I ended up at the University of Tennessee and had a fantastic experience there and then went into academia one year at Ithaca and six and a half years at Barry University in Miami and then have recently made the transition to IMG Academy in 2017. So it's been a little bit of a roller coaster, but a lot of luck and hard work. And yeah, that's where I am right now. Well, that's pretty wild because you're sitting there in IMG and that's where Angus used to work. So pretty wild isn't how it goes full circle. So Duncan, tell us a little bit about what you're most passionate about. So my role is the assistant head of mental conditioning and the majority of the athletes here are youth sport athletes.

We're dealing with usually 11 to 18 year olds. We have some post-grad high school athletes and some professional athletes that train here, but it's mainly very talented you know youthful teenagers and really what what we our goal is to really make a difference in young people's lives both personally and athletically so in any way that we can do that is to facilitate their development and to make a difference. That sounds like a pretty deep purpose, you know, helping them personally be at their best. So I'm thinking about how, and I visited IMG at least once, I'm going to be back there in May. So I look forward to seeing you in person, Duncan. But you know, I'm just thinking

about how you get to see some of the world's best in terms of high school athletes, even pro athletes. And I know you, you know, before going into IMG, you had your own private practice. So tell us what you think kind of separates those who are really successful from those that are less successful. It's a great question. I used to think confidence was king. I think you probably heard that saying before. But now the more I've worked with athletes, I really think focusing on the right thing at the right time is what separates kind of the best from the rest. The best that I've worked really know how to focus, what to focus on or when to focus on it. And that the internal focus and the external focus, being able to switch and be aware of the focus and be very present, present moment focused. That's where I think really separates the best athlete,

their ability to do that. Okay, so give us a little insight into, gosh, that's a pretty big topic, but they know what to focus on externally and internally and they stay in the present moment where some of the key things I heard you say. Tell us how you might start to help an athlete or performer who might be struggling with that.

Well, I think there's this misnomer with athletes that they talk about losing focus a lot. And it's really not that they're losing focus. They're just switching focus or they're getting distracted. So their focus is shifting onto something else. So a key point is to help athletes identify what are their key distractions. What are they getting distracted by? When are they getting distracted? And then it's the challenge of how do we circle them back into being focused onto the present.

So I think athletes, it's almost a relief when I tell them that they can't lose focus. They just get distracted. And then it's just, well, okay, well well what do i get distracted by and usually they can identify those relatively quickly the challenge is then hey how do we circle back and how do we actually get them focused on the present um and obviously you've heard you've had people on the podcast kind of talk about mindfulness and being very present focused that's certainly something we try and do and we do implement some classes in mindfulness especially you know for me i'm working mainly tennis golf and with a soccer team so for me a lot of it it comes back to very simple things um what what is

our target right now and and sometimes, although it sounds very simple, it's sometimes the easiest things are the best things. So I'm asking, you know, literally on this golf shot, what are you trying to do? What is your precise target? What is your plan right now? And every single time that we do that, whether it's a serving tennis, whether it's a return,

what is our target? So just simplifying down what to focus on and then when to focus on it, that really helps athletes. So that clears away kind of some of the external distractions and the externally focusing. And then for the internal focus, when I talk about kind of internal distractions, that's usually the kind of the thought processes, the cognitions, thinking about, you know, past and future.

But it's also our emotions and how our emotions drag us away from the present. So a lot of times it's pretty easy to see where our focus is. So if an athlete's emotionally they emotionally got anger or they're frustrated, they're thinking about the past, something's just happened, or they're disappointed. And if they're thinking about the future, it's usually showing up in nerves and anxiety and fear. So helping athletes use emotions to detect where are they thinking

and where their focus is directed. Because really when we're very much dialed into the present, there's not a lot of emotion there. And so I'm working a lot with athletes in terms of how do we get them into that space where we're not internally or externally distracted and that we can really focus on the key performance indicators that we need to pay attention to. And Duncan, when you're just talking about external or internal distractions, give us some examples of external distractions.

I'm thinking, you know, might be like the fans, the other team, coaches, at least that's what I see athletes struggle with, you know, things that they can't control but what do you see for example like a sport like golf um they'll get very distracted by hazards so you know obviously a golf course is laid out for you know to make it challenging so they'll get very distracted by water or bunkers or out of play so they get very distracted by those external stimuli or the wind or the course conditions. Similarly, in tennis, I had a player, a good player tell me yesterday they were distracted by the planes flying by. They're distracted by what's going on on the court next to them, by people who are around on the edge of the courts. And these are top-level players, so they can get easily distracted by anything.

So I tell them, I don't mind if you get distracted. It's more our ability to detect that distraction and then refocus because the reality is I don't know of any athlete that can be completely dialed in and focused for a three-hour tennis match. You're going to get distracted, but how do we dial it back in into what's important at the right time? So I think it's more about them recognizing when they're distracted, but how do we dial it back in into what's important at the right time? So I think it's more about them recognizing when they're distracted, internally or externally, and then bring it back to the present.

I like that, Duncan. So detect the distraction or detect when they're distracted and then get refocused. So as people are listening, I'm thinking that they might be saying, well, how do I do that? Can you give us a strategy or a tip or, you know, anything to kind of extend that thought, like notice when you're distracted and then get refocused. So the ability to get refocused, again, it comes to each individual sport. What are they, they know the key things that they should be focusing on or if the consultant doesn't they need to ask the coach so for a simple thing like a a serve in tennis they're going to you know the direction the actual physical point on the court that they're trying to hit the serve or the return uh similarly

to golf and it may be something in the air that they're trying to hit the ball through or it may be a landing spot so an actual physical target that's pretty simple but you know how do we get there um for example with golf we may talk about the one minute focus so when they we use it as part of their pre-performance routine so when they get to their ball that's when we use the kind of the analogy of a light switch that they have that one minute that they really have to dial in so as soon as they get to the ball it's almost like a physical trigger that when they get to the ball that's the time where they really have to dial in for one minute and then if they find themselves getting distracted you know we use different things in the routine where they may step away from the ball and go through that routine again so the ability to and similarly in tennis it may be as soon as i step up to the line as soon as i set my feet for the return i'm now ready to go or you know once i

finish with my towel so depending on the athlete it'll be a little bit we can use a physical trigger to induce that kind of the ability to refocus. Some like the light bulb analogy, some like the light switch. It can be something like that. But having them recognize that our focus doesn't have to be 100% all the time. It's just important to switch it at the key moments and to be paying attention when we need to pay attention. I like the idea of just like the one minute focus, you know, that you don't have to be 100% focused all the time, but being focused and present when it is absolutely necessary. Absolutely. So Duncan, you had mentioned that there at IMG,

you guys do some mindfulness training. Tell us about, you know, how you define mindfulness and just a little bit about how you guys train that. So really mindfulness, obviously, probably people listening are familiar, but the ability to stay focused, have acceptance and not judgment of thinking. We teach an actual seven-week curriculum where we go through the process of teaching athletes the ability, a few different skills, which are very, you know, breathing techniques, and there's a whole variety of different breathing techniques, teaching them on the ability of acceptance of thoughts and emotions

and the nonjudgmental thinking. And we'll do activities such as, you know, mindful walking or mindful eating, and obviously breathing is a huge part and mindful meditation. So that's really kind of the essential piece. And usually teams will cycle through mindfulness usually once in a calendar year, I'd say, on estimate. So each athlete usually gets a little bit of mindfulness. But, you know, I'm really, for me personally as a consultant,

I'm trying to implement a little bit of this on a daily basis with athletes. You know, I may not call it mindfulness, but I'm really talking about trying to be present. I'm really working on not being too judgmental on the outcome of particular shots or particular, you know, circumstances within performance and really acceptance of whatever the result is. So those kind of tenets of mindfulness, you know, really are a common thread throughout the work that I do with athletes. Although I may not always call it mindfulness because they may not know what I'm talking about. Right, right. And sometimes what I find is when I talk about mindfulness to

even elite athletes, sometimes they think I'm talking a little voodoo, but right? Yes, absolutely. You can teach them the principles without them knowing, or maybe even calling it mindfulness. Thank you so much for sharing that. I'd love to hear your, you said that you used to think confidence was most important, but now you kind of see focus is most important. Tell us about your journey in changing your thoughts on that.

I think it's really interesting because confidence, I think when we talk to athletes about confidence, they're usually talking, I think athletes probably don't understand it incredibly well, and then my challenge is how do we recreate or how do we create confidence? If I'm doing mental conditioning or mental training, I should be able to teach that on a pretty consistent level and that's not always easy because when i ask an athlete you know describe your confidence they really struggle to do it most of the time um they

can they can sometimes give me behaviors or body language or perhaps what it looks like but usually what they tell me is it's how i feel. So when an athlete says, you know, are you confident? You know, I don't feel confident. So when we have athletes that are talking about feelings and feelings of confidence, then they're really connecting confidence to an emotional state because that's what feelings are. So the big challenge with that is if we're

judging confidence like an emotion then confidence is going to come and go like an emotion and that's what we tend to see with athletes is you know we we play we play half an hour we play really well so our confidence is up we miss a couple of shots our confidence is bad you know we have a couple of good games a couple of bad games and our confidence goes up and down like our emotions. So athletes are treating their confidence like a feeling, and they step on call, and they have to feel good. If I feel good, I've got a chance to play well. And I want, you know, that is not consistent, that's not sustainable, and that's really not how I want my athletes kind of conceptualize and work with confidence so with with confidence I'm moving them away from a

feeling state and I'm moving them more towards obviously what confidence really is is a belief system so I like to use the analogy with them of a brick wall in terms of their confidence and I do this as a as an activity with them that I'll print off a picture of a brick wall in terms of their confidence. And I do this as a, as an activity with them that I'll print off a picture of brick wall and, and every little brick, they have to write why they should be confident. You know, obviously previous, previous wins,

specific matches, you know, the amount of practice they put in, the amount of physical conditioning, you know, the amount of mental conditioning, the amount of mindfulness training, they've done all these different things, why they should be confident. So we create a brick wall. physical conditioning, the amount of mental conditioning, the amount of mindfulness training,

they've done all these different things, why they should be confident. So we create a brick wall. And again, the analogy of the brick wall is obviously something that's strong. It's built over time. It's not just one thing. It's built over a lot of different things. And that serves as our belief system. And then on the day-to-day, the moment-to-moment, it's really what we say to ourselves that makes-to-day the moment-to-moment it's really what we say to ourselves that makes that big impact upon our moment-to-moment confidence but I usually kind of tongue-in-cheek but I say I don't care how you feel because they get so tied up in confidence and I need to feel good to play well well you don't you can feel great and you can play terrible or you can feel terrible and you can play terrible or you can feel terrible

and you can play great so you know i'm trying to move athletes away from that notion of confidence as a feeling state and more into a stronger belief system so that's why i've got a little bit away from confidence now i'm not saying confidence isn't important i think it's really important but i think athletes get too hung up on if I don't feel confident I can't play well and that I don't believe in so that's why I kind of say I shifted away from confidence a little bit

but we still talk about it because they still think it's really important so we kind of have really good conversations and challenge them and their belief system and then helping them develop a strong belief system and then helping them develop a strong belief system about why they should be confident. And it's not because I have one good practice or I played well in my last match or last tournament. It's because I've played well over,

you know, two years and I've done all this stuff, which means that I can play this sport. That's why I should be confident, not moment to moment changes in performance. That's good. I'm glad I asked you that question. We had a great, I mean, I just really liked kind of what you said in terms of doesn't matter how you feel and even the best athletes and performers, they can play well or perform well, regardless of how they're feeling. Absolutely. So Duncan, is there a topic besides focus or confidence that you tend to always cover with your clients or those there at IMG? It really is sport dependent. And a lot of it ties into some of the things we've already talked about.

Obviously, when I'm working with a team, we do team sessions. So it's a little different, you know, group dynamics, team dynamic stuff when i'm working individual athletes a lot of it ties back into you know how to be present um but we're dealing with youth sport athletes so i think the challenge that we have is you know adjusting how we deliver and how we kind of get across some of the information so I was working the other day and thinking about emotional control and working with athletes a little bit of emotional regulation but I was really saying you know again I was using a little bit tongue-in-cheek but I don't care how you feel I care what you focus on let's move away from trying to deal with emotional states and you know what I realized you know with adolescents they're going to have a lot of different things that are impacting their emotions on a daily basis just like adults but I think

perhaps even adolescents even more and that we're in an environment where there's so much social comparison which plays into emotional states so with the kind of the mindfulness approach when we you know the really belief is that we're not going to impact we're not we shouldn't change emotions at any given time the emotions are going to come and go and i think too much of our time in mental conditioning we spend using emotional regulation where we spend time how do we change these emotions well i'm more about well how do we understand it emotions? Well, I'm more about, well, how do we understand it? Okay, we're going to have anger. We're going to have, you know, happiness.

We're going to have sadness, fear, anxiety. But then how do we move past that and how do we then switch ourselves back on? For example, a tennis match, in between points, we may have 20 seconds maximum between points. And if my athlete's spending 20 seconds maximum between points and if i'm if my athlete's spending 20 seconds you know controlling their anger well they haven't come up with a point plan they haven't refocused they haven't you know relaxed they've spent too much time dealing with one thing so really again working a lot on with adolescents being aware of their emotional states

but then working on issues, again, connecting back to focus, I hate to kind of harp on about it, but being present-minded, accepting thoughts and accepting emotions and really, you know, what do I need to do in this moment? Yeah. And so what you're saying, Duncan, is to not work to change those emotions in that 20-second period, but accept how they, how they're feeling, but can they use strategies or techniques to move past that pretty quickly so they can stay in the

present? Yeah, I think, you know, emotional regulation, you know, controlling our emotions pre-performance is absolutely important. Do we want somebody going into the tournament really struggling with fear? No, of course we don't. So there's time before performance to do with some of those emotional things. But I think sometimes in the present when we're actually engaged in the sport and sports go so quickly, we don't often have a lot of time to deal with that. So how are we using our time most effectively? Now golf will be one where we may have a little more time where, you know,

I want to make sure that, you know, they're controlling their arousal, they're controlling different emotional states a little more, whereas tennis it's going to be too quick. So my time for tennis players may be a little bit different. Yeah. And then soccer is just continuous. So it's, you know, how do we continue to the next piece of action? If we're getting too caught up in how I'm feeling about the last, you know, the last referee call, then I've missed the play that's going on. So it's how do we keep kind of playing forward as it were. Like that, playing forward. So Duncan, is there a signature technique that you use?

So I'm thinking about something that makes you stand out or something that's unique to your work. I don't know if there's anything anybody does that's unique in our field. I think we just package it a little bit differently. I don't think that there's necessarily something that I hold special. There's certainly ways that I deliver. I mean, for example, I'll use the concept and it's, I don't even know who I got it from or I probably got it from somebody,

but the notion of a time machine I talk to a lot of athletes about. And that's probably one I probably stole from someone on your podcast. I don't know. But the idea that, you know, where is our mind and body at any given time? And all too easy as athletes, we go forward and backwards in time. And like a time machine, but we can't take our body there. But we do it. So we do it with our mind, but we can't take our body there so it's really getting athletes and they seem to actually like that you know analogy whereby if you can't take your body there all right don't let your mind go there so really talking again about a kind of present mind

present moment focused and then um i do a lot on especially on and again tennis and golf individual sports but I think it can apply to other you know close skill sports I do a lot on routines with certain athletes I know we did a presentation together before so you're familiar with it how I you know I break down the routine into kind of four areas um in terms of physical technical tactical and mental and making sure that in our pre-performance routine that we're addressing something in our routine that addresses every one of those areas otherwise i feel that we're not fully developing a pre-performance routine and we might be missing something so i'll make sure that they they have something out of those four components

in the pre-performance routine as well. So that's something how I teach the routines to different sport athletes. Can you give us an example, Duncan, of we could just take a golfer, a tennis player. What are some of the examples of a physical, technical, tactical, and mental, the mental aspects of the routine? Yeah, absolutely. There's not a particular order, some sports will align a little bit better. But for example, as soon as the point's finished, I want them to do a little physical check, how they physically doing? Are they out of breath?

If they're out of breath, let's go to the towel. Let's walk a little bit slowly. Let's make sure we use that full time. So doing a physical check. Similarly, that physical check could be if it's a tight moment, is it a pressure moment? How do we feel physically? Are my shoulders a little bit tight? If I'm putting a golf ball, how do I feel physically?

Same on the line for a basketball three-throw. Is my heart racing a little bit? What's my body telling me? So that's just the physical check. And that can be pretty quick. If you feel good, great. If there's something wrong, then you need to perhaps address that. Maybe it's, okay, I need to step away from the line. Maybe I need to go to my towel. Maybe I just need to take an extra five seconds. I need to step away from the golf ball. Maybe I need to stretch. Do something physical. The technical element will be sport-specific. So, for example, a tennis player,

it may be something as simple as, am I actually stood in the right position to serve or return this ball? Have I got the right grip strength? It's so easy. We think about those things that we almost do them intuitively, but under pressure, we know people grip a lot quicker a lot harder sorry not quicker a lot harder and that's very detrimental for golf putting so how you know just technique wise am i aligned correctly with my pot for basketball three throw you know just that little reminder of you know how how does my shot look in terms of elbow up,

those kind of little technical points, it might be one or two. It's not to think about it during the process. I'm not trying to get into modal learning, but it's more just a little technical reminder that if everything's good, we just move on. The strategy, the tactical piece, the tennis, it's obviously, you know, where am I trying to serve return? Where's my target?

What's previously happened on points? What am I trying to do on this point plan? For a golf shot, it's, you know, what's the shape of my shot? Where am I trying to land it? And then for a basketball three-throw strategy, it's pretty simple. But strategy does sometimes play a role at the end of the game. You know, am I missing the back end of a one-on-one because you know my team needs to get the rebound and you know needs to make it too so there does have to be some sometimes some strategy in basketball

three-throw shooting and then the last part is the mental so i'll get an athlete it may be um a positive affirmation something they'll say to themselves it may be a positive affirmation, something they'll say to themselves, it may be a focus cue, it may just be a relaxation breath, but something mental to just, again, facilitate, something that may, they'll feel facilitate performance. a lot if everything's good and everything's working you can you can go through those really quickly go to the towel am i in the right position what's my point plan okay you've got this where's my target go i'm ready to serve it it can be done as quick as 10 seconds so when i when i tell that to athletes they're like four things how the hell do i remember that but you know we we take time and usually they're doing some or most of these things is just helping them make sure that we kind of leave nothing unturned and and give them put them in the best position to perform and that's all you can do and that's the purpose of a pre-performance routine just give them the best opportunity to perform and then it comes down to executing

duncan have you wrote about those four areas of pre-performance routine anywhere? Because I'm just thinking, I know the listeners are going to be emailing me. Tell us more. I haven't. I did a presentation at the national conference on it. But no, I've never, I've never written on it. You should, you should in your spare time. Well, excellent, Duncan. So let's kind of turn the attention a little bit to you. And we know, obviously, in our field that understanding why you do what you do is really important to keep you excited and passionate about your work. So just tell us a little bit about your why. I was thinking about this today. And I, you know, I think it's all too easy for us. There's a lot

of people that are walking around in whatever walk of life they're in and they're not really striving to fulfill any kind of potential. And that's okay. That's how people want to go through life. But why I like working in sport and why I like working at IMD Academy is we've got a lot and the vast majority of the people here are really striving to be extraordinary and not ordinary. So they're really striving to kind of fulfill the potential. So that's what drives me that I can help. I can try and help individuals on that path that they're trying to do something that other people are not doing. So I love that, whether it's whether it's sport, or whether it's, you know, business, whatever it might be, if people really kind of stretch

themselves really trying to find out what their potential is. I think that's fascinating, because, you know, really, I think we've we really scratched the surface of what we're capable of humans. And I think the, you know, the more and more people push boundaries, whether it's psychologically or physically, you know, I think that's fascinating. So it's all about people, you know, trying to help people fulfill the potential and people who are prepared to, you know, take a risk and, you know, and compete and stand up and say, you know, I'm going to compete today and I'm going to lay it all on the line. I think that's really admirable. So that's why I like working in the sports space because there's people who are doing stuff that the vast majority of people either don't want to or they're not prepared to.

Whatever the reason is, they're happy to settle. And a lot of athletes are not like that. So that's why I really love working in that space. And perhaps that they also don't move forward towards their potential because they're stuck in their comfort zone or, you know, they're experiencing a lot of self-doubt or negativity or kind of beliefs that they can't do it. Absolutely. So, all right, Duncan, one big question I have for you. So most of the people I have on the podcast, them ask them about a time that they failed and the reason I ask you this question is to kind of normalize failure and so that we condition ourselves to realize that you know we're going to fail but it's about how we respond to that failure and

how we use that failure so tell us a time didn't go so well for you and what you learned from it I mean I have numerous examples but I give you one that really sticks out, and it's more of a professional one. When I left University of Tennessee, I got a one-year teaching position at Ithaca College and really enjoyed my time up there. But it was only a one-year teaching contract. And as you know, in academia, those positions become available again. So I had to reapply for my own position. I had good evaluations from the students. I felt like I'd done a good job. I went through the whole hiring process, and I wasn't given the job.

So I was pretty, you know, I was upset about that at the time. And within a week, I'd already applied, but within a week, I'd heard from Barry University in Miami. So kind of coincidence and however things worked out, I got the job in Miami and moved to Miami. But one of the reasons, the feedback was I didn't get the job because my research wasn't strong enough at Ithaca College, which I fully support that. It probably wasn't at the time. I was really concentrating on my teaching and I hadn't done a lot of research. So they were right in their feedback. But what that made me do was I'd never really been a keen researcher. But when I got to Barry, I was like, okay, if I'm really going to

try and be good in this field, I need to make sure that I understand and I need to conduct and learn about the research process and do some research. And I think I really grew through that. So I was lucky enough and I've, you know, over the seven years of Barry managed to do quite a lot of research. I taught graduate level research for about five years that I was there and really felt like I got to know the research process pretty well. So from what came as a real kind of kick in the teeth to something that pushed me to be better. And it was really the best thing that could have ever happened.

I moved to Miami, had a great time at Barry University and met my wife and had a child. So things work out for a reason. But hopefully I learned from that because it was an area where I wasn't as strong and I needed to be to be in this field. Even if I was going to be a consultant, I needed to know more about the research process and how to apply it. And I think that's really from a weakness has turned into a relative strength for mine. So, yes, I think that would be a key example I could give you.

Yeah, and I suppose in that moment when you didn't get that position at Ithaca, it was not easy, right? When we don't accomplish our goals, it can be really, really difficult. But what I heard is that you took a lesson and then you used it actually to build your career. Yeah, I did. And who knows? I could have had a, you know, my career could have, you know, grown from strength to strength to ethic and things happen for a reason. But I think they did what was right for them at the time.

And on reflection, I agreed with them. And I didn't in that moment, but I, you know, when you actually look at it from a third person, I agreed with them and I didn't in that moment but I you know when you actually look at it from a third person I agreed with them so I you know I think it was a really learn it was a great learning opportunity as a young professional in the field to you know where where are your areas of weakness and you know I when master students or students ask me you know how do I get into this field how do I improve it you know what are your strengths and where do you need to improve? Where are your weaknesses?

Where are your blind spots? You know, and a lot of them don't want to know about research and they don't want to engage in research. And I get it. It's not easy, but I think it can really benefit you as a consultant if you want to be in the applied space. And if you want to be in an academic setting, you certainly need to know the research process.

And obviously we've done research together, so I know you understand it. So I think for our field it's really important for young consultants to at least get a handle on it and learn some of the processes. And whether it's research or another area of weakness, whether it's public speaking or whether it's actually standing in front of people and, you know, delivering a topic like confidence. You know, everybody has their weakness or an area that they need to work on. So I think you're absolutely right. You know, how do we turn our kind of challenges into strengths of ours?

That's super good. One of the questions I wanted to ask you, Duncan, was if you look at the top 10 traits of high performers, I know I sent that to you. Let's take a look at it a second. And if anybody's interested in looking at this list, they can download it on my website, drcindra.com. But which of those, Duncan, do you think is most important for high level performance, just from your own experience? And it might be tough to pick one. But what do you think is most important for high level performance just from your own experience and it might be tough to pick one but what do you think well i don't think i'll come as a surprise based on what i've been talking about but i think i think number 10 they dominate the moment stay present moment focused i think that really um encapsulates a lot of what I've been talking about. So I think number 10, their ability to do that, especially in high-pressure situations. So number 10 for me. Yeah, number 10.

So you're not thinking about the outcome or you're not experiencing fear or anxiety, like you were saying, where you're focused on the future, or disappointment or anger or regret when you're focused on the past. Yeah. Yeah. Which one of those do you think you see that most athletes struggle with? I think number three, how to think and direct conscious thoughts.

I work a lot with athletes and, you know, especially young athletes, you know, that kind of subconscious thinking, the thoughts that pop into their head and again, connects to kind of mindfulness, just they don't realize how impactful their thoughts are, not only their thoughts, but also their directive thoughts and what, you know, you self talk with thinking patterns, how important that is. So for me, number three is something that a lot of athletes struggle with. And it's not easy. It's not easy to help them. But yes, for me, it's number three. Yeah. And I think what you're saying and how you're explaining it, number three, the thinking patterns are directly related to your ability to stay in the moment.

All right. So if you're interested in checking out that list, you can head over to, again, drcindra.com. You know, Duncan, one other question I had before we kind of go, before we wrap up, I'm thinking about a presentation that you gave at ASP last year, the Sports Ecology Conference, where you were talking about layering imagery. Do you remember what you shared? And I'm just thinking about how that's one topic we really haven't discussed that I think the listeners would be interested in learning more about. Can you tell us about what layering imagery means to you? Yeah, absolutely. So often coaches and athletes use the term visualization. That's something they're familiar with. But really,

what we're talking about when we're using all of our sensible multiple senses is imagery so we're trying to recreate an image a picture in our mind of what we'd like things to look like or maybe skill acquisition so when i'm working with an athlete obviously what we tend to do is you know can you can you see yourself performing well so we're using the visual sense and then what what i'll tend to do is um once they get the the visual sense down and through vision we'll talk about kind of internal external so are they viewing themselves with their mind's eye or are they seeing themselves from a third person perspective um at least tend to have a tendency that most people see themselves through their own eyes, but it also is task dependent. So we'll do a little bit of that, just making sure that I understand how they're seeing the image. And then it'll be about, depending on the sport,

what senses are most important to that sport. So for example, the kinesthetic we want to use, introduce feel. So it may be with a basketball free throw, what does the ball feel like in your hands? Imagine the feel of a ball. Imagine your feet on the hardwood surface. How does that feel? So we'll introduce that. So we'll do a, you know, they'll first of all visualize a free throw, and then they'll do that a couple of times, and then we'll introduce, okay,

now introduce feel and with visualization. And once they have comfort in that level, then we'll introduce, okay, well, think about the sound. Think about the sound of the basketball hitting the wood. Think about the squeak of your shoes, and then think about the sound of the basketball as it leaves your hand and kind of the swish as it goes through the net. So we're implementing sound. So what we're slowly doing is layering an image.

Because I think when we tell an athlete, hey, you know, image this and use all five senses, it's too difficult for them. And sometimes when you add sound, they forget about the feel. So you have to take one step back. So you slowly add one sense on top of another. And then it may be, you know, obviously taste for some sports. Taste is really important for swimming, for example, with the chlorine. Same with smell.

So some of those senses, you know, taste and smell may not be as necessary for some athletes or for some images. But for others, for example, golf, it could be the smell of, you know, fresh cut grass. You know, for other sports that may not be, you know, smell may not just be really important to the image. So the layering of the image just takes time in terms of how do we, how do we progress the image? And then once we've done that, it'll be slowly about implementing different elements. So kind of using the pet blood model in terms of using, you know, getting our body physically involved, thinking about the environment, thinking about the timing of it, thinking about emotions involved. So all of a sudden we're really recreating not just a simple image,

but now we're looking at the basketball three throw and we're stood up, we're imagining it. We may even put a basketball in our hands if we want to, and then we may say okay you know it's this time of the match you're playing these rivals this is the position this is you know this is how you're feeling or think about how you're feeling and then think about the outcome of this so then the layer then the image just gets more and more complicated I think we sometimes jump in too quick with athletes and try and get them to do that image straight away

but imagery is a skill that can be taught and some people have amazing imagery abilities and some people it just takes a little more time so the layering of the image is just adding additional layers and sometimes when you add something you have to take something away until they get it and then you add something back in so the senses and then we can add in different elements with regards to kind of pathway model. Oh, that's really good, Duncan. Some of my graduate students were in that session, and they were raving about it.

So I'm glad that you were able to describe it to us. Do you layer the senses in one meeting, or are you kind of saying like layering them over time and maybe you start this week with imagining as vividly as you can and then you know the next week you might work to you know uh include smell or tell us a little bit more how you do that yeah i think it really comes down to if i'm working individually that it's a lot easier working with a team and doing imagery is very challenging it can be done was very challenging working with an individual you can you can progress relatively quickly but it does come down to imagery ability so some individuals

have incredible imagery ability myself for example i'm extremely poor so it would take a long time for someone to build a really complex image with me but with some and especially with experienced athletes because they've gone through certain scenarios and they you know they've really developed memory of different performance scenarios and how it feels and what it looks like and so with experienced athletes often that process can be quicker but it does depend on the athlete. Some athletes I've had that they just can't see the image, and it just takes a long, long time.

Whereas I've had others that they can do really complex imagery and they've had very little practice in terms of formal practice. They've probably done it intuitively themselves. So it really just depends on the athlete. But it can progress very quickly. It could progress using multiple senses within one session. Absolutely. Yeah. Awesome. All right. Well, let's wrap up the interview, Duncan. I got a few quick questions for you. Is there a book or a resource that you could recommend to the audience? And

why did you choose that one? I read a book this year that I really like called Legacy by James Kerr. For those that haven't read it, it's all about the culture inside the New Zealand All Blacks rugby team. I thought it was a fascinating book. Very easy to read, but had some nice applied ideas. And I think most people would enjoy it whether they like rugby or not. It's about sport and team culture so I really like that book all right excellent legacy and is there a quote or a phrase that's important to you and tell us how why it's important to you and how it might apply to us

yeah and I've got I've got a plaque on my desk and it says champions work when nobody's watching. So I'll tell you a very quick story. When I was doing my PhD, I was at the University of Tennessee about 7 p.m. on a Friday night, as most PhD students are, and I go upstairs and my advisor was Dr. Craig Risberg, and he was Professor Emeritus and had published 100 research papers and has done everything you could want to do, past president of our association. So he has nothing to prove.

He was close to retirement. And I go past his office. All the other offices are closed. I go past his office and the lights on and he sat there. I say, Doc, what are you doing here? And that was his call. He said, Champions work when nobody's watching. And I thought if he's doing it at his age and what he's accomplished, I can do it.

So that's something that really lives by me. And I love that quote. And yeah, it's something that I try and do no matter who's watching you, the best, you know, get the work done. Nice. So quote by Craig Risberg. Love it. And what final advice do you have for those high performers who are listening, Duncan? the big brother of motivation is discipline. That on a daily basis, our motivation can be up, it can be down.

But what really matters to high performance is discipline. So when we're not feeling our best and we're not, you know, wanting to do something, it's the discipline to do the small things, whether it's diet, whether it's getting the right recovery, whether it's, you know, giving 100% in physical conditioning or mental conditioning or just out on the training field is having the discipline to do it even when you don't feel like it so um discipline big brother motivation i love it man duncan you brought it today to this podcast uh there are so many things that i enjoyed hearing you just talk about it i loved your stories i'm going to pick out three

things that stood out to me i liked what you said in terms of your journey just to see that the most important topic is focus and helping your athletes switch that focus and deal with the external and internal distractions that you talked about. And the key concept there that I'm taking is the one-minute focus. I thought that was super tangible and tricky. I also appreciated that you talked about that it doesn't matter how you feel and you can feel great and play terrible. And so to focus less on how you feel, that confidence is not a feeling state, but a belief system. Super good.

And it's really hard to pick another. But I'd say that I liked your discussion about the time machine. I don't think anybody talked about that on the podcast but you know why why move your why allow your your mind to go in the past or the future when your body can't so I just want to commend you for bringing it bringing it here and just hearing so much value with the listeners and i know that people are going to reach out to us and say man i loved what duncan said about this or that or they're going to be retweeting it or posting it so tell us how the listeners can reach out to you if they're interested

i'm relatively active on twitter so they can um reach out contact me on Twitter, which is at sport psych dunk, which is S P O T P S Y C H D U N C. Or if they do want to email me, it's pretty simple. It's Duncan dot Simpson at IMG.com. Excellent. Excellent. Any other final thoughts, Duncan? No, I just want to commend you on the podcast, Sandra. It's been great for me to listen to other experts in the field I've used as a resource to listen to really the best. So I appreciate you putting in the hard work and, you know, spreading kind of the word out to athletes, coaches, and other professionals outfield. So great job on the podcast. I love listening. Hey, I super appreciate that.

And just want to thank you again for being an active listener and tuning in. For those people who really enjoyed this podcast, we'd encourage you to head over to Twitter and you can tag Duncan Sports Psych Dunk and then myself, Mentally Underscore Strong. We'd love to hear what you thought about this, what stood out to you, what was important. The more people you can share this interview with, the better because it just means that more people are impacted about the power of sport and performance psychology. So Duncan, thank you so much.

Thanks for joining us from sunny Florida today. Thanks ever so much, Sandra. Thank you for listening to high performance mindset. If you like today's podcast, make a comment, share it with a friend and join the conversation on Twitter at mentally underscore strong for more inspiration and to receive Sandra's free weekly videos. Check out dr. Sindra.com.