History Daily - Saturday Matinee: History Snacks

Episode Date: July 11, 2026

On today’s Saturday Matinee, we explore what's left of the city of Pompeii after it's buried by the eruption of Mt. Vesuvius in 79 C.E. Link to History Snacks: www.historysnackspodcast.com   Support the show! Join Into History for ad-free listening and more. History Daily is a co-production of Airship and Noiser.

On January 2nd, 1979, the Dallas Museum of Fine Arts opened its newest blockbuster exhibit Pompeii 79 AD. Marketing materials trumpeted Pompeii is a blast. And after breaking attendance records in Europe, this exhibition will be on tour for one year in four American cities, Boston, Chicago, New York City, and at the Dallas Museum of Fine Arts. You can hear the pride in that announcement. Dallas, Texas, listed right along. alongside Boston, Chicago, and New York. I was five years old then,

but I have distinct memories of attending this exhibition. Those poor Pompeians, frozen in the very instant of their terrible and agonizing death, encased in hot ash and preserved, so that I could look at them 1,900 years later in a building on the grounds of the State Fair of Texas. But that exhibit was a big deal for more than just me. Three years earlier, King Tut had toured America

and taught museums that ancient history could sell tickets, like a summer blockbuster, and I remember it. Lines of around the block, corporate sponsors plastering their logos everywhere, and Pompeii AD 79 proved it could happen anywhere, even at a fairground building in Dallas, Texas. But how did they do it? Well, by remembering history is human, which it always is. The exhibits weren't dusty artifacts sequestered behind glass with small brass plaques,

but out in the open, life-sized plaster cast of these ancient dead staged like a family. caught in its last breath and close enough to touch. It was an image simple and powerful enough for anyone to understand, even a five-year-old boy. And that's what we're sharing on today's Saturday matinee, not just the story of Pompeii, but history told for kids and adults alike with an episode from History Snacks. I hope you enjoy. While you're listening, be sure to search for and follow History Snacks. We put a link in the show notes to make it easy for you.

Because we work to keep our stories on History Snacks as accurate as possible, This episode contains violent eruptions, ancient scientists, natural disasters, villas by the sea, and stranded sea animals. Extra warning for this episode, there are detailed descriptions of the dangers that occurred during a natural disaster. So if that's going to upset you, skip this one. History snacks. A long time ago, all across the world, there were people making history that you and I would come to know. Grab yourself a snack, because we've got all the facts. These stories are old and delicious

And now it's time for history snacks History snacks Welcome to History Snacks The podcast where cool people talk about old stuff Yeah, that's definitely the tagline for this podcast, right? I kind of like that one. Where's the lie? It is old stuff. Yeah, it is old stuff, yes.

Okay, all right, how about this one? Mm-hmm. History Snacks, what if we talked about volcanoes, though? I don't know. I mean, we are going to talk about volcanoes, though, right? Yes. I mean, we got the word Pompeii in the title. If we don't talk about volcanoes, that's false advertising.

We are going to talk about volcanoes, I promise. We are, in fact, going to talk about the eruption of Mount Vesuvius that buried the Italian cities of Pompeii and Herculinium. Yay, another death mountain on the podcast. Well, we know a lot about the eruption of Mount Vesuvius for a couple of reasons. The first is because archaeologists have been excavating the site. of Herculaneum and Pompeii for over a hundred years and we're still always finding new stuff. And the other is that we have a very famous eyewitness account. Wait, I thought everyone died in the eruption.

Like you hear about people who died in the spot they were in on the street? Well, yeah. That doesn't read to me as they had a lot of time to leave and tell people all about it. Well, that's true. But let's talk about this. Dun, dun, done, done. History snacks. Eat all the history. Okay.

First, we have to understand what a Plinian eruption is. Yeah, let's talk volcanoes, baby. Yeah, so a Plinian eruption is a specific kind of volcanic eruption. I know you've seen videos of some recent volcanic eruptions in Iceland, right? You know? Yeah, the lava's all slow and oozy coming out of a crack in the ground. That's right. Do they seem particularly scary to you?

Not really. I mean, powerful for sure, but not terrible. Well, that's because, while all volcanic eruptions are dangerous, some are far more dangerous than others. What happened at Mount Vesuvius was a plenician eruption. Plinian eruptions are sudden and violent and incredibly destructive. The last one to happen in the United States was the eruption of Mount St. Helens in Washington State in 1980. And that eruption is generally considered to be the most destructive volcanic eruption in U.S. history. Yeah. Yeah, and I heard that Mount St. Helens didn't just have a volcanic eruption, but also the largest landslide in recorded history.

It did, yes, and we have pictures of that one. So if you're up to it, you can grab a grown-up and look at some of the pictures from the eruption of Mount St. Helens. But I got to warn you, it is pretty scary stuff. Yeah, that's going to be a no for me, dog. I already Googled one Death Mountain this season. I'm good. Yes, yes, you've definitely reached your quota. But that actually might be our closest visual on what it was like when Mount Vist.

Suvius erupted. And obviously we don't have pictures of the eruption of Mount Vesuvius because it was way before photographs were invented. But wait, didn't you say you have an eyewitness account? Yes, we do. We're going to talk about Pliny the Elder and Pliny the Younger and their experiences during the eruption. Wait, Pliny?

Plenty, yes. As in Plinian? Yes, yes. That is where we get the word for this kind of eruption. Plinian, because Pliny the younger described it in such detail. Let me set the scene for you. It's 79C.E. And we're in the Roman Empire era.

Okay. We're in the area of Italy around the Bay of Naples. If you're looking at Italy, which is shaped like a boot, it's at the high ankle pointing forward. Ooh, nice geographic reference. Thank you. This area is known to the Romans as a nice vacation spot, and that is why Pliny the Elder

and his nephew, Pliny the Younger, are chilling in a villa. They're chilling in a villa. They're chilling like villains in a villa. They're like, they're villa villains. Okay, yeah. We got it. A lot of chilling.

Okay, sorry. Sorry. Let's stick to the script here, okay? Okay, sorry. Anyway, they're about 13 miles or 21 kilometers away from Mount Vesuvius in a town called Mycenae. Okay, I think I'm visualizing it. All right, there they are. They got their iced drinks.

They're sitting in the shade on the patio. Someone is plucking some sort of stringed instrument. It's a vibe. Yeah, and they're chilling. Right, they're chilling. Like a villain, you might say. Like a villain, yeah, in a villa. Because really, where else does one chill but at a villa?

They are there with Pliny the Younger's mother, who is also Pliny the elder's sister, Plinia Marcella. Oh my gosh, another Pliny? Yes. I mean, there's so many names in this world. Could we maybe just branch out a little bit from the family name? Well, yeah, there are plenty of plinnies here. There are plenty. You might even say we have a plethora of plinnies.

The puns are punning today, folks. Prepare yourselves. Please. Okay. I just wanted to plant that in your mind. The three of them are outside, and Plinya Marcella points out a smoke cloud rising from across the bay. Now, Pliny the Elder is known as an early scientist. He's interested in the natural world, so he really wanted to get up close and see what was going on. Pliny the younger was a teenager and more of a bookworm, so he decided to stay home and study. Okay, I'm going to reserve judgment on who made the better decision until I find out what happens to them all. Yeah, that's a good call. Pliny the Elder has a villa on this side of the bay because he is currently commander of the Roman Navy for the Bay of Naples. So he's about to hop a ship and check out what's going on when he gets a message from a friend of his, Rectina, who has a villa that's between Vesuvius and the sea at the foot of the mountain. Rikina wrote to Pliny the Elder because she's trapped. Her villa was so close to the volcano

And there was no escape for her But over the sea Oh no! Yeah, so Pliny the Elder sees that lives are in danger And he rounds up the naval ships under his command For a rescue mission to save his friend and anyone else who might need help But before we get to the rescue mission We're going to take a break to pay the bills Not now! Not before the rescue mission!

Yes, yes, though we have a plethora of plenty platitudes to get to But we're going to take a quick break And we're back. So where were we with the Pliny's? Okay, so Pliny the elder's friend asked him for help. Right. He was on a rescue mission.

Right, right. He organized the Roman Navy into a rescue mission. But when they got closer to the mountain, Mount Vesuvius, there were like fiery stones falling from the sky and so much debris in the water that they can't make it to shore where he intended to land. At this point, everyone is getting nervous about the atmosphere. Okay, I think that's pretty fair. I mean, I'd be nervous too. I'm looking at this letter of Pliny the Youngers where we get his account of what happened,

and it sounds awful. All right, listen to this. He was now so close to the mountain that the cinders, which grew thicker and hotter, the nearer he approached, fell into the ships, together with pumice stones and black pieces of burning rock.

Yeah, that sounds like the end of the world. That's pretty bad. Not a fan. Yeah, I know. And yet Pliny the Elder still decides to go forward. According to his nephew, he says, Fortune favors the mold,

and directs the ships to go ashore a little further down the coast, close to the villa of another friend of his, Pomponienus. You know, I was going to make a joke about Pomponius's name. But at this point, I'm just relieved there's someone else in the story,

not name Pliny. Fair point. Pomponianus is, of course, very upset, and Pliny decides to soothe his fears by trying to play it cool, right? Like, what volcano? That volcano, that thing? Oh, that's really nothing to worry about. It's all good. Don't worry. He goes so far as to actually ask for a bath and then sit down to eat a meal as the volcano is spewing fire in the background. A bath? I'm sorry, but what part of burning rocks and falling cinders indicates that this is the time to chill and take a bubble bath? Not just that, but at this point, pumice was falling from the sky and piling up around houses.

Pliny responds to this by taking a nap. What? A nap? That's even worse than a bath. Yeah, he takes a nap. And this one's not just for show either. According to Pliny the Younger, people actually hear him snoring. Pliny, my dude, what are you doing? Wake up. To be fair, it is the middle of the night at this point. But still, Pompidianus and his companions have to argue amongst themselves as to whether or not to wake Pliny up. They finally do it because the rocks are piling so high that they won't be able to get his door.

open if they wait any longer. Oh my goodness. This is so stressful. And at this point, things are really dire. The group he came to rescue have to debate what to do. Should they trust that their house will keep them safe or attempt to leave and find somewhere out in the open that won't collapse on them while the tremors are shaking the earth. They end up deciding to tie pillows to their heads to try and find somewhere where there's less danger. They think that maybe they can take the ships back across the bay, but by the time they get there, the water is too choppy and it would be too dangerous to be in the sea. There is apparently a sudden explosion, and the party starts running. But Pliny the Elder starts to have trouble breathing because of all of the ash in the

air and collapses. No! Unfortunately, Pliny the Elder died, and they had to leave him there in order to escape. Oh my gosh, this is horrible. Did the elders get away? Well, we don't know the specifics, but some of them must have survived, as Pliny the Younger wasn't there for this, but he knows what happened. So he must have gotten the story from somebody who was still there. We really don't know how many people survived the eruption. We only have some evidence of refugees from Pompeii in other cities, but we don't know the exact numbers. The written account we have is Pliny the Younger writing all this about 30 years later to Tassadus, a senator and well-known history writer.

At the end of his letter, Pliny hopes that the complete account that will come from Tacitus will be better than his own remembrings. So what did Tacitus write about this then? We don't know. The book he apparently wrote about it has been lost. What? I know. It's so frustrating. But we've lost more writing from antiquity than we haven't.

The only account of the eruption we have is from Pliny the Younger at this point, and we're really lucky to have it. Pliny the Younger signs off his letter by saying he and his mother also had a terrifying time. but he won't bore Tacitus with the details. Pliny, bore us with the details. We want to know. No. Tassadus must have written back saying the same thing because then we get a second letter from Pliny about the experience from him and his mother. Ooh.

Thank you, Tacitus, for being curious. Pliny the Younger spent the day studying, and they weren't really worried about anything, really. But at some point in the night, there was a violent earthquake that overturned everything around them. He gets up to wake his mother just as she rushes into his bedroom to get him, and they both sit for a while in the courtyard out in the open so, you know, nothing can collapse on top of them. Pliny the Younger is clearly related to the elder here because he starts reading to pass the time and making notations in his books. Okay, even though that does sound a little bit unhinged in the territory of the whole bath and nap thing,

I kind of get it. I mean, this has got to be scary. Like you're in a small, confined space with the building, all around you, wobbling on their foundations. And there's nothing you can do but pretend to be calm. Yeah, that's fair. A friend of theirs finds them there hours later and tells them they are being too calm. And the three of them decide it's not safe to stay in their town anymore.

I'm actually going to read to you what he wrote directly because he actually said it really well. Okay. The chariots, which we had ordered to be drawn out, were so agitated backwards and forwards, though upon the most level ground that we could not keep them steady, even by supporting them with large stones. The sea seemed to roll back upon itself and to be driven from its bank by the convulsive motion of the earth. It is certain at least the shore was considerably enlarged, and several sea animals were left upon it. On the other side, a black and dreadful cloud, broken with rapid, zigzag flashes, revealed behind it variously shaped masses of flame. These last were like

sheet lightning, but much larger. Whoa. That's really intense. The ground is shaking so much they can't even keep a chariot on the road. I know. The sea is rolling into itself and lightning and fire are spewing from the mountain? Again, this is really end-of-the-world stuff we got going on here. Exactly.

And they're about 13 miles from Vesuvius. They're across a whole bay. Pliny and his mom Plinia don't want to leave the area entirely because the elder Pliny is still missing. and they don't want to go without it. Plinia tells her son to leave her there because she says she can't make it very far, but Pliny the younger refuses and takes her by the hand, pulling her farther away from the volcano. They reach a point, though, where neither of them want to keep going because they don't want to abandon Pliny the elder. Aw, I wouldn't abandon you either, Dad. I'd get you out of there.

Thank you. I wouldn't abandon you. Anyway, the friend tries to get them to keep going away from the danger, telling them that, Wherever Pliny the elder is, he would want them both to survive, even if he does not. But they both refuse, and the friend leaves them sitting by the side of the road away from the crowds fleeing the destruction. Okay. All right. Let me just calm down. Take a deep breath here. Well, don't worry. I can calm your fears now because they both make it out alive. And I'm only saying that because the next part is pretty scary. They're covered in a cloud of ash.

and Pliny the Younger says it's not the darkness of night but the darkness of a closed room with the candle blown out. Then there's suddenly light but Pliny says he only knows that because there's fire coming. And he's right.

There's a huge explosion with bright flames but it doesn't make it all the way across the bay to them. They're enveloped in another cloud of ash so thick that they have to dust off every few minutes or else be buried. But then, things calmed down.

The light of day returns, the earthquakes quiet, and Plinia and Pliny the Younger return to their villa in Mycenaum to wait for news of Pliny the Elder. Okay, even though they weren't injured, I mean, that's still so scary. I don't think I realized how dangerous volcanoes can be. Yeah, they are very dangerous, but we have a lot of good technology now that lets us monitor volcanoes with a lot of accuracy. Historians think the ancient people,

people of Pompeii didn't even know that Mount Vesuvius was a volcano, even though they knew what volcanoes were. Today, we can see the warning signs of a volcano far ahead of time. That's really good to know. I'm going to go write a letter to a volcanologist and thank them for keeping an eye on the volcanoes for us. That seems like really important work to me right now. Yeah, I agree. And that's it for this season of history snacks. But producer Emily will keep you entertain with some short bites of info weekly until we can get next season going. We'll likely return in September with another full season. In the meantime, let us know what you thought of this season.

Grab an adult and give us a review. If you have a suggestion for what to cover next, let us know. But maybe less death mountains. Yet maybe fewer death mountains. Fair point. Because this is history snacks, we didn't have time to talk about so many things. But if you want to know more about the topics we talked about in the episode, you can look up Pliny the Younger or the Elder, Pompeii and Herculaneum, Mount Vesuvius, and Mount St. Helens.

Grab your adult or a librarian and get to researching. History Snacks, high in the fiber of knowledge. History Snacks is hosted by Kenny Curtis and Jillian Hughes, written by Emily Everhart with expert fact-checking by Meredith Saffron. Sound designed by Scotty Beam, who also composed our theme song, along with Gwynne Aaron. Emily Everhart is our senior producer.