History Hyenas with Chris Distefano and Yannis Pappas - 128 - James Wilks is WILD!

Episode Date: March 12, 2020

We get into it with former UFC fighter and producer of the documentary "The Game Changers," James Wilks! From the benefits of being plant based to why Chrissy wants to kiss him on the ear, the cuzzies go WILD with this PBC!  Want more Hyena content? Check out www.patreon.com/bayridgeboys where things get really WILD!Follow us!: 🙆🏼‍♂️🐕🙆🏻‍♂️🙆🏼‍♂️Chris Distefano on Instagram, Twitter, website🙆🏻‍♂️Yannis Pappas on Instagram, Twitter, website🐕History Hyenas on Instagram, Twitter, website Subscribe to the poddy woddy on YouTube, iTunes, Spotify, and HH Clips

what's up cuzzy wuzzies you're listening to another episode of the History Hyenas, I'm Chris DiStefano aka Chrissy Cauliflower Tits. With me as always, Giannis Pappas, a.k.a. Special Needs Demos. And now we have the creator of the wildly popular documentary on Netflix called The Game Changers, which changed my life.

You guys have heard me talk about it a lot. It's Mr. James Wilkes, a.k.a. James Wilkes Booth. It's John, right? I was just telling you, I don't know much about history, but I do remember it was John. And I think he spelt Wilkes with an. It was John, right? I think so. Yeah, it is. I was just telling you, I don't know much about history, but I do remember it was John. And I think he spelt Wilkes

with an E. Absolutely. Well, because he's gay, you're not. Yeah. Or maybe you are. Listen. Here's the difference

between the two of them. That guy had to use a gun to kill Abraham Lincoln. Yeah. This guy can kill you with his piece. With his piece, with his fingers.

He's a stone cold killer. Because make no mistake, he's a stone cold 100% plant-based. Because I'm a plant-based pussy. You're PPP. Yeah. But you're a PPC, a plant-based cutie. Yeah, if I said someone to hurt you bad.

It's this kid. You would never know. I'd be like, and he's also 100% plant-based. You know how I knew that he was plant-based? Because he's got cauliflower here. Only one. Only one. Only one because the kids

are fighting and make no mistake I'm going to take a little nibble out of your ear because I'm 100% no, I'm 90% plant-based

after watching your documentary and babe, let me tell you I came in how hard did I come in here swinging about this documentary how much I fucking loved it.

He reminded me about three times he's like make sure you watch the documentary before James comes in. I loved it. It was absolutely unbelievable. I learned loved it. He reminded me about three times. He's like, make sure you watch the documentary before James comes in. I loved it. It was absolutely unbelievable. I learned a lot.

These documentaries keep coming up. You can't ignore the fact that eating less meat is a good thing to start with. Right? Totally. To me, it's twofold. You're eating less meat, which means you're also eating more plants, right? So there's actually a double benefit because we know that meat's not great for you and we know that plants are good. So double benefit by switching out those calories.

Yeah. I feel like when I was – first of all, it was like yet – it's interesting how like when you just date – you know, I have my kid's mom, beautiful Puerto Rican woman. my kid's mom's beautiful Puerto Rican woman. And it's interesting how you just, you know, it's just the fights are never over. Because I was like, hey, I think you should watch this documentary, The Game Changers, because she's a vegan. I was like, I think you'll like it. She's like, I told you about that documentary last week.

You don't fucking listen to me. This is why you're stupid. And I was just like, I'm sorry. Just give me a zucchini. Yeah. Well, the worst with your wife is when you tell her something. Yeah. And you don't know that she told you a week ago. Yeah. Well when you tell her something yeah and you don't know that she told you a week ago yeah well the thing is with me i don't have a wife i have babies

mama but you have a wife either way i'm just saying like if you tell her she's like i just told you that and you totally didn't realize that she's been trying to get you to do something or watch something yeah no but vegans vegans also come they a lot of times they come at you like that if i if i call you a vegan is that like like a slur? Because I don't want to be like, hey, you fucking vegan, because I'm telling you to support it. But are you a vegan, or are you just a PBC plant-based cutie?

And what's the diff? Well, I would say, like, you know, vegan is going outside of diet for first of all. You know, like, you know, leather, and maybe you don't support, like, buying pets or something like that. You want to rescue them instead. Sure. But I, so i don't really like the term vegan that much and also plant-based is a bit more all-inclusive you're not saying it's it's all or uh something rather than all or nothing

and so i think i'd invite more with like being fueled by plants because i think i think the great part about his documentary that i love was the marketing part when he talked about how the meat industry has marketed meat in a certain way, like very manly. And then there's those quick cuts of all the commercials going like, eat like a man. Eat man. You want to eat like a man? Take this meat sandwich. It's meat with a side of meat. Put this dick in your mouth.

You're a man. Yeah. And I think vegans could benefit from like a little bit more marketing, a little bit better. Because I like the way your documentary was going. Like, hey, look at this athlete. He's a man. Look at this man. Look at James.

He's a man. James is a fuck. Are you kidding me? James is the definition of man. He's fucking. He's got probably such 32 ways. Fucking tight, tight bod. Cauliflower ear.

Cute, nice complexion. Cuz, let me make no mistake, and you fucking are a fighter, you will get kissed on the lips. Here's the deal. He will run through this crew in here. I'll run through him. Yeah, here's the deal. He'll get cracked open and cleaned out.

He will kill. You ever see that movie with Denzel? That's the thing. You see that movie with Denzel Washington? What's it called? The Equalizer? The Equalizer. He'll kill everybody.

He will kill us one by one. The only difference will be is when he's going to Kimia, he'll be covered and come. No, I'm pretty gentle. I know. I'm telling you, you're making me horny. Stop saying you're gentle.

The truth is, since I've been plant-based, I'm telling you, since I've been just fueled by mostly plants and vegetables, I have the courage to walk right out of the closet. Yeah, we see.

We don't know if... The thing about Chris, I'll just give you a little backstrix. Mike's falling asleep because he just wants to eat meat. Yeah. out of the closet. Yeah, we see. We don't know if... The thing about Chris, I'll just give you a little back story. Mike's falling asleep because he just wants to eat meat. Yeah. Here's the thing.

James is looking around confused. Somebody hit Mike with a tomato. I'll give you a little back story on Chris. He's... Yeah. He says that he is romantically into men. No, no, no, no, no, no. Romantically into...

Physically, I fall in love with men. I have sex with women. Yeah. So if that's gay, no, no, no, no. Romantically into. Physically. Physically into women. I fall in love with men. I have sex with women. Yeah. So if that's gay, then. Put your beat in my mouth. So that's what he. That's. Not you.

Just in general. So wait, what is it again? You're. I'm. I. I. I'm. I'm.

I'm romantically. Attracted to men. No. Sorry. Wow. It's Freudian slips. No, no, no, no. Because you said that.

I said I'm physically attracted to women. Basically, if I have a deep, like, Giannis is my podcast partner. There's been many, many times where we've had a deep, beautiful conversation about history or about something awesome, and then I just went and had sex with a woman, and the woman's been like,

that was the greatest sex ever. I'm like, thanks, Giannis. So he said the conversation gets him going, and then he goes away. Right. Exactly. I think he's just – Game changers. And I was horny watching Game Changers.

It moved your monkey? Well, it moved my monkey because the thing is with Game Changers is it's so deep and there's so many powerful people. Arnold Schwarzenegger. My favorite guy was the weightlifter, the squeak guy, the guy from India. You know who I'm talking about? He's not from India. Not from India. He's got an Indian last name. His name...

Patrick Baboomian? Yeah. Armenian who lives in Germany. Yes, that guy. I fucking love that guy. Whenever you see an I-A-N, it's Armenian. And that guy had nice 80s hair and I liked it. He had the mutton chops too. The mutton chops, yeah. And that guy was the strongest fucking guy I've ever seen in my life. He had the world record for lifting

the most... He broke the world record eating plants while James was on stage emceeing it. That's right. For the documentary. So the reason why I started watching it is because I went to the doctor and my cholesterol was TTR, through the roof. It was like total cholesterol of like 260. And then I went plant-based because of the great Tang Sinatra. I went plant-based because he told me about the documentary. I watched it.

And then I went from 260 to 190 in like four or five weeks. Wow. Which the doctor, my doctor, told me. He was like, I've never seen it that quick without medicine. He says, as a matter of fact, he said, I want to test you again. And I had to go back a week later and get tested again. And it was like 188. Yeah, it's super common.

Crazy. But then, you know, but then it's like,8 yeah it's super common crazy but then you know you but then it's like so i say that right this is how fucking people are i say that on the podcast whatever people start hitting me up you why are you so concerned about cholesterol bro cholesterol is not real it's what what's your glucose what's your glucose and it's like glucose is extremely important too and that also went down my a1c was like 5.2 which is great that's what i think you should do commercially. If there's anyone out there who makes a joke and says,

if you're a vegan or you eat mostly plant-based diet, you're a pussy, you'd be like, you can fight me one by one. Absolutely. And we'll find out. It's strange, right? Because historically there's this sort of connotation that if you eat plant-based or you're vegan or vegetarian, you're soft. And I think probably like 60s, 70s,

there was a lot of sort of, you know, long-haired hippies, tree-hugging. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but that's probably, you know, there's a lot more people eating vegan, vegetarian. But things are changing now. People are getting like benefits, both health-wise, but also performance,

you know, athletic performance, sexual performance. Yeah. There was that whole part of the documentary when the kids got, they had woodies longer at night. They had pop and wood. I feel like sometimes I don't. Do you feel like your morning woods have been better since you've been on plants? I haven't been on plants yet.

Oh, you didn't do it. It's in the back of my mind always. I'm just one of those casual people who's trying to eat less meat. That's where I'm starting. And then when I watch a documentary like yours, it makes me go like, okay, I got to do more. I got to get better at this. Because I enjoy plants, and I just want to stop eating burgers. I want to stop eating just steaks.

I want to stop eating chicken so much. You also have a wife who's going to call you a pussy if you stop eating meat. Well, the way to frame it, I think, mentally is to think of what you're going to include. So I want to include more plant-based burgers, more plant-based pizzas. Rather than thinking of it as exclusion, I think of it more of like, what can I eat? And that's going to push. So I want to include more plant-based burgers, more plant-based pizzas. You know, rather than thinking of it as exclusion, I think of it more of like, what can I eat? And that's going to push

that other stuff out. Inclusion. Diversity. Yeah. That's what everybody loves. Are Impossible Burgers and like the... The way you say

Impossible Burgers because I... Impossible Burger. I have a side... It really pisses me off the way you say burgers. Burgers. Just keep your fucking lips back

when you say the Eeyore Burgers. It's an Impossible Burger. It's an Impossible Burger. You're from New York City. Stop pronouncing the R's. burgers. Burgers. Just keep your fucking lips back when you say the Eeyore burgers. It's an impossible burger. It's an impossible burger. You're from New York City. Stop pronouncing the R's. Burger. Burger. Or if you're from England.

If you're from England, it's a burger. I don't believe he's even from England. I think he did, puts on the accent for the documentary. It makes me sound smarter. It makes you sound smarter. I think that you're from Baltimore.

Well, actually, if I go back to England now, people from England don't actually know where I'm from. Well, I'm going to fucking tell you where you're from right now. I mean, I do now because it's in the film Oh it is?

I was Gloucester Gloucestershire? Oh yeah He combined two Yeah Where are you from in England? Well it's a small town called Melton Mowbray Which is in Leicestershire

Which is spelled L-E-I-C-E-S Yes T-E-R-S-H-I-R-E-S Leicestershire It's like Leicester. You break stereotypes for two reasons. One, your diet. Two, that does not sound like the voice of someone who can kill you with their hands.

He can kill you with his hands, no problemo. There's another myth, right? Is that all fighters are dumb. It is another myth. No. I think over 50% of people in the UFC have at least a bachelor's degree. I would believe that. I never thought fighters were dumb.

You have to be so smart to be able to see so many moves ahead of you and be like a tactician with it. Here's what happens when you're on plants, unfortunately. Yeah. It's just the truth. I apologize, James. Ben and T is okay with it. I told him.

You fart a lot, right? I've been eating so many broccoli spheres that you would think I'm shoving them in my ass, which I may be. But the thing is, I've been so gassy to the point where i went to my gi doctor and i said i have stomach cancer and then they took a look um and they said no actually you look better than ever so it's wild how much just from changing my diet how many things like how good my body feels is what i'm trying to get at that it actually i actually thought i had a problem yeah because so yeah that uh how long have you been doing it now now it's been like um jesus like nine weeks okay so yeah it does take a time so the the bacteria got the microbiome there's

different types of bacteria and so you're starting to lose the putrefying bacteria because meat is sort of putrefying your gut and you're starting to get more of the fermentation bacteria so during that transitional phase if you're suddenly getting a lot more fiber than you were 90 of americans are deficient in fiber then you're going to start uh you can have gastrointestinal distress a bit of bloating or gas so that's why for most people it's probably better not to jump in overnight because you go from like 10 or 15 grams of fiber a day to like 40 grams of fiber a day or something and that can cause a problem but over time that should totally um totally pass do you can you eat oatmeal with the place okay yeah because i just i don't know i wasn't sure yeah

but i make it with i make mine with soy milk so if you're making it with cow's milk then i would make it with almond milk is almond milk okay yeah that's good i mean there's not much protein in almond milk soy is better so i would go soy get some protein because i remember because you the part of documentary we talked about how we always don't like soy milk i always thought like oh i just have tits and fat nipples in the soy milk but it's not because you're saying that the soy is the soy there's estrogen receptors and there's phytoestrogen plants and basically you're if you're eating phytoestrogen you actually block those receptors from absorbing if you're still eating some animal products you can actually help block some of the animal estrogens which are identical to human estrogens,

from absorbing. So it's actually beneficial. We think we're two guys that are mostly more estrogen than normal guys. We've spoken about that, especially Giannis. I feel like some days his brain is estrogen, some days it's more testosterone. Yeah, I'm a mixed bag and so are you.

You're a mixed bag. We're a couple mixed bags. He used to put on his mother's fishnet stockings when he was a kid. But that's got nothing to do with plants. I just wanted to say it. Yeah, it was a couple mixed bags. He used to put on his mother's fishnet stockings when he was a kid. But that's got nothing to do with plants. I just wanted to say it. Yeah, it was a formative time. James isn't a great laugher.

No, I get it. I get it. No, no, no. He just doesn't. I was going to judge. He doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't know what's going on. Tank should have told him.

I'm not quite sure what is a joke versus what is not. I know. I wouldn't judge that. No, the gay stuff was a joke. Oh, it was? Yeah,. I wouldn't judge that. No, the gay stuff was a joke. Oh, it was? Yeah, because my dad's still alive. We think. We think.

We don't know. I mean, with him, we don't know. I think he's just an in-the-closet gay guy waiting for his dad to die. No, it's just what is. To come out. My dad's going to die. That's why I'm not showing the game changers. Get out of here.

I wasn't judging that or the stalkings. I was like, whatever you're into is fine with me. Yeah, yeah. Look at how Mike's going to fall asleep. Anytime somebody comes in and starts talking about healthy implants, he's like, boring anime. Mike, you could really benefit from this. Mike doesn't care. This is the question I want to ask.

The watch is too small. Yeah. This documentary has spawned some controversy. And I don't truly understand why. That's my opinion. Because people want to hang. Yeah. I mean, the documentary the documentary is saying hey here are these people who had these health problems here's what these athletes are saying this is what's working it's better to eat less meat that's kind of uh undisputable so what is the controversy about uh from their perspective

what do they say people are so tied to, it's a lot of tied to identity, especially men. You know, they're like, think, oh, I'm the hunter. I got to eat meat to be big and strong.

And they've really been sucked into this myth. And I think they sort of came in before the film even came out. They're like, oh, it's a vegan film. They're trying to tell us to go vegan and all that shit associated with, you know, veganism and vegetarianism. So I think people were just sort of,

you know, like an example I was mentioning before, you know, people are saying, oh, well, they're saying the gladiators were vegan. We never said that. The scientists said predominantly vegetarian. I said fueled mostly by plants.

So people just came with this preconception. Now, we did use all the athletes were completely vegan. And we chose to do that because we didn't want people saying, well, we're trying to dispel a myth. We're not trying to tell people what to eat. We're trying to dispel some myths, show some facts. And if you put people in that were just mostly plant-based, they'd say, oh, it's the fish

they're eating once a week. You know, that's where they're getting their protein from. Yeah, because I saw one thing they were like, oh, you know, with the Nate Diaz, Conor McGregor fight. They're like, oh, Nate Diaz

was a vegan, he beat Conor McGregor. But it's like, and that's true. And then they're like, oh, but then Conor came back and beat him two months later. It's like, what does that have to do with anything? Yeah, well, funny. We actually almost wanted to include that in the film, but it wasn't enough space.

Because Conor, after that, cut his meat consumption down. Right. And then did better. So that would actually have worked in our favor to say, look, they were pretty close, although he lost. And Conor himself blamed it on eating the more meat. And his energy didn't feel good. Battle of energy. And then after that, he cut his meat down. He got better got better energy now connor's an amazing fighter as is nate so yeah

it's not just about diet right it's about your skill and your training but certainly i think there's really good scientific evidence that it's better for athletic performance i love the the titans part when you when you when you uh follow around the titans say their best season in 15 years in 15 years and that was that i and that food that plant that food that um Titans they had their best season in 15 years in 15 years and that was and that food that plant that food and they had like 14 players how great did that food look too I mean that food

there's this place you ever go to Champs Diner in Brooklyn since you've been here it's like a fully vegan diner but it's like you sit down there and it's like a diner

like we would go to in Brooklyn in Bay Ridge and it's like it's fantastic food so it's interesting to me to go back to my

point about marketing it's interesting that you did say that about the gladiators because I watched it and that's the point you were making and I was like oh wow that's interesting but then I was going like oh that makes sense it's like we're only eating the amount of meat we're eating now because it's marketed to us and it's just like meat upon meat but back then in Rome like the meat was the harder rarer thing to get so people you know ate more plants because that's marketed to us and it's just like meat upon meat. But back then in Rome, the meat was the harder, rarer thing to get. So people ate more plants because that's what the diet was for most of our history.

There was, but also actually the gladiators, they compared to the general population and the gladiators were eating a lot more plants even. And now people say, well, it's because the gladiators were slaves and therefore they're eating slave food. Well, even if that was true, which it wasn't, because uh we're shown in films

gladiators historically actually often weren't killed at the end of the battle they might like survive five or six fights even if they lost they might live because they wouldn't always kill them in the film we always like to see this you know and then the right the thumb across the throat you know and then down the thumbs down and then they'd kill them that's not always the case so i mean first of all if you had a stable of fighters that were costing you money and you were trying to put on the best show possible, you'd probably be feeding the best fuel that you could feed them.

Second of all, even if that wasn't true and they were feeding them the worst, cheapest food, they didn't have amazing nutritional science back then. So they'd only sort of have sort of anecdotes and, you know, sort of outcomes after they fed to see how it went. So even if it was true and they thought they were feeding them the cheapest food, it doesn't mean that it wasn't optimal

for athletic performance. So people trying to rebut the film, trying to find whatever holes they can, they create a lot of straw man arguments and then try and tear those down because they really can't attack the science, which is bad. You know what's funny?

It's like nobody ever goes to the doctor and the doctor's like, hey man, you know, you got to cut down on the carrots. Yeah. You got to cut down on, you're having too many salads. Cut down on those plants. What you got to do is have a few more steaks and we'll get this cholesterol down. And it's like, listen, I just go by because, yeah, I know like, oh, the people debunk,

you know, when we started the podcast, oh, it's the who can't, I know how I feel. I personally, whether it's placebo or not, it's real. And also, but it's not placebo. It's not, dude, when I take poops, they say when you placebo or not, it's real. And also, but it's not, it's not, dude, when I take poops, they say when you take a poop,

it needs to have shape. Yeah. S shape. The shape's coming out of my ass. I mean, I have my daughter come over and learn the alphabet in my toilet bowl.

Yeah. It's fucking, I'm telling you. Thank you, James. And then it's just, and then it's just like, so I feel,

I don't, let me just say, you can't underestimate how confused he was. You came right out of the cage. Well, I'm an experienced fighter and you came out with too much energy. Well right out of the cage. He's an experienced fighter and you came out with too much energy.

It's his fault he's got my brain fueled by plants. I'm feeling alive. I'm human cocaine. Look at how muscular Tank is. He's on steroids and plants. He incorporates steroids. He puts Winstrel into his kale juice. It's a little different.

What can you do? I'm happy to hear Mike laughing and not coughing. Somebody give that kid a fucking kiwi. It really was the first kind of food industry documentary made by like athletes.

That's the first time I've seen a documentary talking about the Western diet, the American diet, the food industry, the lobbies of the food industry by guys who are like peak performers. Like you can't underestimate the strong man. He broke the record being the strongest, lifting the most weight. The heaviest weight ever carried by a human being over the 10 meters. Yeah, the heaviest weight carried by a human being over the 10 meters. Yeah, the heaviest weight carried by

a human being over 10 meters. He's on a plant-based diet. You can't break a stereotype more. I mean, that's the polar opposite of the stereotype. So that, I think that is kind of like a paradigm shift in sort of your perspective going like, wow, that's possible?

There's got to be something to this that plants can't just make you weak and skinny the way the stereotype is. I mean, you look in shape. Yeah, I've never been big, right? But even though I was eating tons of meat, I was never big either. I've stayed around, like 190, 195, somewhere in there.

I feel like if I get over 200, my speed goes down a little bit with striking or coming out of the holster with the handgun or whatever, a little bit slower. Right, right, right. So I like to stay under 200. Are youster with the handgun or whatever, a little bit slower. Right. So I like to stay under 200. Are you still fighting professionally? No, no, I've retired quite a few.

I still train military and law enforcement. But do you feel physically better since you've been on a plane? Oh, I've got stronger and my endurance has improved. How long have you been plane-based? How many years? The whole time. It's like over seven years now because when the film actually started,

it took that long to make the film and then for it to come out. Really? It didn't come out since it's been like seven. Seven years. Over a little, I think like over seven years now. When the film actually started, it took that long to make the film and then for it to come out. Really? It's been like seven years. Over a little, I think maybe almost eight, yeah. Seven years on 100% plant-based, not a bite of meat. So that's the thing. It's like when you say, am I vegan?

So if I go to a restaurant and there's some bread, I don't go, can you go and look at the ingredients and see if there's any milk in this? You know what I mean? So, you know, I don't know. But definitely no meat. No, no meat. I but definitely no meat no no no meat no i mean no meat no dairy no eggs intentionally you know what about supplements you have to take supplements right i mean yeah a b12 is the one thing that you've got to have if you're going to be completely plant-based yeah and so there's an amount you can take once a week or if you can do it once a day depending on you know so like quickly like what what like if somebody who's like because like i try to i try to talk to my you know like mom about this and my mom you know she's very

religious she's like no we have to i have to drink cow's milk and i'm like why would you have to drink what why does it have to do why would you have to drink a cow specific milk that's marketing oh it's brilliant it's like one of the best marketing campaigns of all time got milk you know like they just chose like a docile animal that they could get milk from that was really productive and large and could and they tricked everyone into thinking once you wean off of mother's breast milk, whereas evolutionarily, there was no need to like, you wouldn't have lactase, which is the the enzyme that breaks down lactose, you wouldn't have even had that you wouldn't have lactase persistence beyond weaning. And then they

just trick people into thinking an amazing job of marketing yeah um but actually same with the meat yeah yeah totally and so what what people have done what the industry has done is they framed the building blocks of diet as bones you need calcium and calcium you need dairy you know muscle for your muscles you need protein and where does protein come from meat and for your brain you need omega-3s and where does omega-3 come it comes from fish it's like a brilliant marketing job and you do need calcium and protein and omega-3s it's just that you can get them from the source and cut out the middleman go straight cut you know go straight to the source get your calcium from green leafy vegetables which is where the cows are getting it from get your protein from

from legumes or nuts and seeds, like plants. That's where cows are getting their protein from. And omega-3s, you can go right to the source. You can go to get like flax seeds, which is ALA. Or if you're worried about getting like exactly the same EPA and DHA that come in fish oil, you would get those from algae,

which is where the fish get those from. So you don't even take a fish oil pill. don't do any of that no no i take a b12 and then some depending on where you live in the world and this is whether you eat meat or not taking a vitamin d supplement depends how much sun you're getting right uh and depending on the time of year uh and then yeah it's sort of you know for a lot of people it's probably worth as an insurance policy taking uh you know an epa dha supplement um which is like an algae based oil or you could do flaxseed just some people don't convert the ala especially as you get older right the long form omega-3s dha right the marketing component is very interesting too

when when um part of the film when they talk about the uh like mcdonald's commercials yeah i always was fascinated by that too it's like and and the the film really hammers at home because they show you know the cigarette industry and what their parallels yeah the power yeah they started out with like cigarettes used to use doctors and those advertisements are hilarious like when i go on and when i go on a night call it's all marketing i like to smoke a camel shake because it gives me a boost of energy right and then the the um the mcdonald's commercials it's so true it's like you got larry bird magic johnson remember michael jordan's doom it's like you're going like yeah you guys don't eat this shit no yeah you're you have a nutritionist who tells you like

don't eat that yeah same same with the cigarettes like so we found the cigarette advertising and you see the cigarette hanging out of the athlete's mouth and then you can find the same picture without the cigarette in the mouth yeah Yeah. So like back in the day, whatever that version of Photoshop was, like still cutting it out and pasting it on. They were doing that. Same today. Those athletes,

you know, they're typically not eating that food. The only one who smokes cigarettes is Vlade Divac. Yeah. Remember Vlade Divac? Oh, he's a basketball player. He would actually smoke.

He was European. So like he probably trained with a cigarette. European is just something different. What'd you eat for breakfast today? I had like an oatmeal with like cigarette. European is just something different. What did you eat for breakfast today? I had oatmeal with berries and bananas. Nice. So do you eat avocado every day?

It's a good fat. Not every day. It's healthy fats for sure. Yeah, not every day, but I do a couple days a week might eat some. Do you want to have dinner? I got another podcast to do after this one, unfortunately. And now I've heard maybe you got all three of your motives. Well, if we weren't going to go out for dinner, where would you take me and what would we have? You know what I've been liking recently?

And again, I never plug brands or whatever. He was like, you know what? I've had enough of you. And then I was just going to get a one-two. But it's good for the podcast. I've been eating at this place called Carver recently, which isn't even a vegan place, but they've got a bunch of vegan options. It's a bit like Chipotle, where you can always eat plant-based.

They've got the sofritas and the beans. But I've been learning this place called Carver. Yeah, know, it's a bit like Chipotle. Yes. Where you can always eat plant-based. They got the sofritas and the beans. But people are in this place called Carver. Yeah, I know it. I know it. It's like a chain. And you just pick your lentils and your greens and your veg and, you know, whatever. So, and again, you can eat that with your meat

and your friends too, so. So what's like the main source of, like what's got the highest protein in vegetables that I cannot eat? So per calorie, it's going to be, well, per calorie, you're going to be really high in like broccoli and greens, but that's kind of ridiculous. And that's sort of a stupid's going to be um well per calorie you're going to be really high in like broccoli and greens but that's kind of ridiculous and that's sort of a stupid thing that vegans will

say oh well broccoli's got more protein than meat well that might be true per calorie but you're going to eat need like like two foot square bushels of it yeah yeah yeah so that's kind of ridiculous so the best sources really are uh legumes like beans peas lentils and then nuts and seeds or nut butters you know peanut butter and i've been doing a lot of almond butter that's better than peanut butter right uh in many ways yeah it's got better and so when people are gonna make fun of me now for the peanut butter because we use the peanut butter sandwich in the film and there's a lot of people talking shit on peanut butter sandwiches uh because the amount of calories or whatever

we just use that as an example of like an everyday food we weren't saying like this is the best food for building muscle we're just saying hey here's an example of food that you might already be familiar with right here's some lentils and here's a peanut butter sandwich and then people try to hone in on the peanut butter sandwich and like try and tear it apart but um yeah i mean just those types of foods and then of course like for some reason like oh some of these vegan bodybuilders take protein powder yeah what do you what do you think that the meat-eating bodybuilders do? They take protein powder as well. Of course.

Right. And why? Isn't there vegan whey protein powder? It wouldn't be whey protein because that's like from the cow. Oh, whey you can't have. Yeah. So whey and casein are the two proteins in cow's milk. So they separate.

It used to be the whey's product. Yeah. And then they figured out it was pretty anabolic. And so they started selling it into a powder. I think milk is way down. I think almond milk and cashew milk, I think that's been successful. Oh, the plant-based milk has been the most successful sector

in the plant-based so far. Some of the largest dairies are shutting down. Some of the places, there's some farms that had cows that are shutting down and producing almonds for almond milk. And so farmers are even benefiting in many cases, switching over. But soy is the best one in your opinion

no I'm not saying best I'm just saying if you want a decent protein now you can make almond milk or hemp milk yourself and make it high protein it's just that when they sell it in the store

it's pretty watered down you know it does like sometimes it's like one gram of protein that was my question but soy milk's one of the easiest to buy with the protein and some good fats

and like less sugar than cow's milk jackfruit do you eat a lot of jackfruit some I mean it's got a good texture you know but it's again not that high in protein some good fats and like less sugar than cows jackfruit do you eat a lot of jackfruit some I mean it's got a good texture you know but it's

again not that high in protein so I eat it occasionally yeah you know I like I'm not what about bread do you eat bread

he just said if he goes to a restaurant he'll eat the bread no but I'm saying at home not at the restaurant yeah yeah like whole grain you know

like a whole wheat bread not white bread yeah yeah dude once you start eating whole grain whole grain tastes better anyway once you start eating it's got more flavor anyway than the bleach bread yeah like my because my wife's huge health nut and like so i'm always her food she weighs her food she eats the whole grain so my point was this like uh back before i got when he made fun

of me for saying impossible burger but um yeah sorry a possible burger and um and the uh beyond burger are marketed really well. And they're doing really well. Much like almond milk, cashew milk, those are crushing. Are they good for you? And do you think that's a good example of what the kind of vegan cause can do? Kind of create exciting foods that are marketed well? Well, I think that's one of the

reasons why people haven't switched in the past is they think that their foods aren't tasty right but you can actually just in fact i eat much wider variety of tasty foods than i used to i used to like extra lean chicken and broccoli and brown rice or extra lean turkey so going back to whether it's healthy or not is it good for you when you ask that question it's always or compared to what right so if you're going to go to carl's jr and you're going to have a burger then i would uh i would get the the plant-based burger versus the the animal-based burger right for sure um i think there's a lot of reasons why it's better it's not just even if you match the macronutrient ratio and you add just as much saturated fat that they put in from like coconut oil or palm oil or whatever it is even if you matched all of those

there's still a lot of things in the animal foods, you know, the bacterial endotoxins, you can kill the bacteria, but the endotoxins cause inflammation. There's these things called AGEs and heterocyclic amines, which are shown to be carcinogenic, you know, cancer causing and inflammatory also in your arteries, which is not good for performance or sex or health.

And so I'd stick with the plant-based burger, right? If I was gonna, if that was my only choice or all my buddies would go in there, I felt like a fast food burger, right? Not that I don't eat that stuff that often, but then it's not going to be good compared to a three-bean chili or a bowl of lentils or, you know what I mean? Yes.

So it's relative is what you're saying. The split, the first initial split is plant versus animal. And then within a plant, it's like getting more whole foods and less processed. So you're saying if you have the option to get an Impossible Burger or a Whopper, get the Impossible Burger but if you have the option

between an Impossible Burger and something that's better. Whole foods. Yeah, whole food then go with the whole food. Yeah, but I mean like again, it's all or something, not all or nothing.

That's the approach with plants versus animals and like whole foods versus processed foods and you got to meet people where they're at. You know, like, oh, if you say over here, oh, uh plant-based diet is not that healthy because

they're eating uh a beyond burger once a month and this impossible burger once a month and this you know plant-based chicken once a month or whatever well what were they eating before right you got to compare individuals to what they were eating before not this person over here that was eating like um you know wild caught salmon once a month and all vegetables and whole grains like that might be a step down for them uh if they went to starting loads of processed junk right but this person we're saying like instead of that wild salmon switch over to like a lentil soup right you know what i mean right then they're making an improvement so it's always going to be it's unfair to compare like people say well the paleo diet that's better than you you know, this vegan diet

where most people eat vegans and drink junk. Well, you've got to compare apples for apples, right? You've got to go healthiest plant-based diet versus healthiest paleo diet. Then compare those two.

You can't compare apples with oranges. Yeah. I feel like for me, it's just about how I feel. Like I've tried other diets and I've just felt the best. I'm telling you,

like in the morning when I make an oatmeal and it's got the- You've still got a boner. I've still got a boner. I've still got a boner. Well now I'm going to, and now those days are coming in too cause I'm going to get a sex change. So it's going to be good to be post-op.

Now I know he's kidding. I do that. Before I was like, I know you're confused. That's what you think. So you never really know, okay? Yeah. So I like to do, like, when I'm having, like, an oatmeal in the morning,

cold-soaked oatmeal with the almond butter, with the berries. When I, like, you know, am eating, like, avocado and all those vegetables, even in my – not only is my physical performance better, but even in here. Like, moving, quick jumps. Everything is better. Driving better. I pay attention to Shmore. You know what's funny? Before we edited like moving, quick jumps, everything is better, driving better, pay attention to more. You know what's funny? Before we edited the film, obviously we did lots of shooting.

We shot like 50 people that didn't even make it into the film. And we didn't know if it would go outside of athletics and firefighters and soldiers. And so we interviewed a bunch of like Brian Green, one of the world's leading theoretical physicists, and Daniel Negreanu, one of the world's top poker players. And Daniel was saying like, you know, his energy at the table, because those poker games will sometimes go through the night.

He just felt like much clearer and he felt he was doing better and his energy was much more on. So it doesn't have, you don't have to be an athlete to be performing better, right? You could be just in the office performing better at work. You could be a parent who's got more energy for the kids. You know, everyone wants to perform better. People are always like, oh, somebody, because I said that once,

somebody was like, well, it's probably just placebo. It's like, it's not, but even if it is, isn't that, that's your reality.

But it's not placebo. No, I know. Like I said, nobody's ever gone to the doctor and they were like, you know, you're eating too much fruits and vegetables.

That'll never happen. No. It's always fine. You cut down on your meat, cut down on your animal products usually. Right. You know, it kind of almost seems like when I was hearing you talk about all the macronutrients and

all the other stuff that is just gibberish to me because I don't know it, it almost feels like a religion in a little bit. Right. In the sense that, no, not you being a religion. It's like you're enlightened because you know everything. You know the science of the food. because you know everything. You know the science of the food.

Like scientists kind of know the science, the reasons why things happen in the natural world. So they believe less and less in God because they know more and more about how it works the way it works. You kind of seem to know more about how everything works, whereas someone like me is just going like, yeah, I was told meat comes from protein. just going like, you know, yeah, meat. I heard meat. I was told meat comes from protein, you know?

I was like, that's what they told me. And unfortunately, we're sort of influenced a lot by social media. And so it depends on which sort of groups you follow as what information you start believing. I mean, the good thing is that all of the recommendations from all of the World Health Organization

and the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics and Canada's Food Guide just cut out dairy for the first time ever. So dairy's not even a category anymore in canada wow but all of these groups are they're all shifting towards recommending more and more plants like every five years you know the academy of nutrition nutrition dietetics used to be the food pyramid now it's the food plate but they're always shifting you know despite industry influence a lot of money coming in to the people on the like the dietary guideline advisory committee uh they're still shifting like shifting over to plant-based despite all

the industry pushback was there like a moment in your life for you like i'm changing uh no when i when i tried it i was just giving it a go see how i felt because i saw a lot of the evidence you know i got injured started researching it right let me give this a try see how i feel you know i just seen some of the athletic performances which i thought was crazy at the time because i literally thought you had to eat animal products every meal to be an athlete i like i remember walking to a restaurant once and the chicken was spelt funny i'm like why why is the chicken spelt like that like well it's not a real chicken like well where's the real chicken no there's no chicken what meat do you have no meat okay what do you eggs no nothing

so it was a plant-based you know vegan restaurant basically i looked at my buddy who's like 65 275 this uh tom uh bodybuilding buddy of mine from England. And we looked at each other and just walked out. I wouldn't have had a single meal in a vegan restaurant, no. Right. So I just tried it. And then, you know, that's when my endurance and strength improved. How did the movie come about?

So you had this experience. You got injured. You started doing this, like, so how did this movie happen? I started documenting that a little bit. I bought a used camera for Craigslist and started going on YouTube learned how to do

the three point lighting you just taught yourself yeah see people are just like that oh wait a second like innovative guys but isn't that how you learn everything

these days on YouTube like you know the dishwasher breaks you go on YouTube you know like you need to install a floor you go on YouTube you want to make

the most viewed documentary of all time you go on YouTube YouTube yeah so you shot that yourself and then so i shot bits and then i thought well i'll either put this some something small up on on on youtube um you know that full circle learn it and you'd put it back on right right but um yeah or like i'll use the some of this footage get other people interested and then i met joseph pace very early very early on. He actually was a comedy writer in Hollywood years ago.

But he'd been working in the plant-based space. He'd been plant-based for like 25 years at the time. And so we joined up and then decided really to make it like a big documentary. And you had no experience. Two years before you did this, you would have never thought you'd make a documentary. Well, that's why it took a long time. People are like, why did it take so long to come out? It was like,

if you start, first of all, I woke up at two in the morning thinking, I've got to tell everybody this because I hate being lied to. And I thought, I've really been lied to by the industry.

And that's like trickled down even to what my parents told me when I was a kid. They weren't lying on purpose, but you've seen in the film, like the footage of me and my dad, I was a Superman, as a five-year-old.

He's like, what did you eat today? I'm like, like yeah lamb and eggs and same as lunch and uh yeah he's like yeah that's what superman needs to be big and strong so i have lots of misinformation i hate being lied to felt like i had to tell everybody and the best way to do that was a documentary and i worked on with joseph and um it took a long time because when you don't know anyone in the plant-based space or in the medical community or health community you don't know anyone in film you don't have any money right you know to to you don't that takes a while to start putting the money together convince people to like hey do you want to help support this you know it's not easy to like get Arnold Schwarzenegger get James Cameron you know like those aren't easy things we know that just takes a while to like get those

meetings and build and grow but if you've got a good idea and you're passionate and you put the effort in you know um and and fortunate to have like had a good education and be able to articulate and uh not take too many blows to the head you know in the mma training i was out i was curious you everyone spoke in it everyone spoke in it that was featured in it did you did you ask Nate to to speak or is there a reason

he didn't like get interviewed for that we did interview oh you did we just didn't put it in cause he said motherfucker too much yeah

he's like yo man I'll eat motherfucking plants or whatever just yeah no I mean they were yeah they were stoned and showed up like 8 hours

actually showed up 6 hours late the first day and then so we had to roll it into a second day. And yeah, I know. It's just like we ended up only all of the athletes. Like Arnold's not fully vegan, right? He's mostly plant-based. He's cut down on meat by 85%.

He never really drank dairy anyway. So there's people like him. And then Nate is not 100% vegan either. He sometimes eats a little bit of fish or eggs. He's like plant-based. But for the athletes that we interviewed, that we put up, we decided to make them all plant-based.

So we thought that there was enough of a story in Nate's pre-existing footage. And it was tough deciding which athletes that we'd filmed and not put in, or the experts, because it was crazy. And some of the interviews were like four hours long with one expert.

And it was like, we've got 600 hours of footage we made it to an 86 minute film has anybody went back do you think like any athletes who were plant based or now they're not

there's only one yeah that I know of and that was Tim Sheaf okay and he's saying that he has been on

because he's gone like full on carnivore now right and oh Jesus he went the way other way yeah yeah and

it's crazy because he won like the American, British Ninja Warrior show being plant-based and did really well plant-based. Then he basically went on, he used to drink his own piss. Interesting. Is he single?

I'm not sure. He's actually a really nice guy. Yeah, it seems like it. They used to go to parties where they drink other people's piss. Interesting. What's his answer? Why are they doing that? It seems like it. They used to go to parties where they drink other people's piss. Interesting. What's his answer? Why are they doing that?

And he fasted for 35 days. What? Yeah, 35 days. Afterwards, he ate plant-based for a few days. He's like, yeah, I'm not feeling great. And we tried to explain to him, there's a sort of rule with fasting. If you do an extended fast,

you should probably take twice as long as the fast. If take 35 days it's probably going to take 70 days after you start eating again to feel completely normal really yeah yeah twice as long and you've got to be careful there's something called refeeding syndrome where you eat too much too quickly you can actually die from it right we try to consult for him and i just didn't really listen he didn't feel great and then he ate some salmon said he had a wet dream interesting yeah interesting and so he's like okay now I gotta switch and eat completely meat I don't quite get the logic

he also thinks the earth is flat and a few other things as historians you probably think you know wouldn't agree with him on but so he's the only one that I know of

and he actually wasn't in the film the final cut of the film before he told me but he did have the courtesy of calling me early on before he released it to the public just in case we want to pull him out but he actually wasn't courtesy of calling me early on before he released it to the public

just in case we wanted to pull him out but he actually wasn't in the film so the whole carnivore community says oh you know Tim let them know

they were in the film they had to pull him out that's actually not true he wasn't in the film you know there was a little scene that we tried to put on months and months

and months before but he was never in the cut when he asked us to pull him out I think that's a very effective way to put it like you meet people where they're at.

And I felt like the documentary did a great job of sort of emphasizing that. Like, hey, this isn't like, we're not coming at you in a militant way. Because I think that's most of the problem. Right. Is the way it's portrayed. Yeah.

Because when you come at it the right way, you know, it's like, it just kind of, you can't deny when something makes sense, when someone kind of lifts you. You know, like Plato's Allegory of the Cave, you can't deny when something makes sense, when someone kind of lifts you, you know, like Plato's Allegory of the Cave, you get unchained and you turn around and you're like,

you can't unsee what you've seen. You can't unlearn what you've learned. If it's presented to you in the right way, you don't put that block up. You don't go, fuck you, you know? I think that's the whole vegan, vegetarian approach they've done in the past. It just hasn't worked very well.

You know, like judgmental, pointing, got to be all or nothing. You know, if know if you do oh you're fucking wearing leather shoes even though you've given up me and dairy and you know there's i don't think that's a great approach doesn't work very well right um and then going back to that carnivore thing you know people don't realize like let's say you have a nut allergy right and you just never quite figured it out you just don't feel good after eating nuts but you never could have associated to the nuts right and then you go i'm gonna go carnivore for a month well fuck you've got you what you're doing is an elimination diet so you're eliminating all plants so by definition you've eliminated nuts and you feel better well it doesn't mean like and

it's usually temporary but you feel better temporarily and also like any time people lose a lot of weight rapidly their blood pressure tends to come down and their cholesterol tends to come down. And, of course, there's many ways to sort of not overeat. And one of them is called sensory-specific satiety or state-specific satiety. So if you only can eat red meat, you're probably not going to overeat calories, right? Because you're fed up of eating red meat. And so, yeah, people lose weight. You can also have a cocaine habit and lose weight.

You know, there's lots of – you can get parasites and lose weight and your cholesterol comes down or that doesn't mean that it's healthy long term or optimal or healthy for everybody yeah categorically what do you think i don't think any like there's no like serious scientific experts that think that a carnivore diet is the way to go right no plants at all like seriously just not even in those instances like where there's some sort of autoimmune deficiency? Yeah, but again, you can get that. There might be a number of foods that you don't do well, but it doesn't mean it has to be all meat.

You know, like Joe Rogan just went carnivore for a month and he lost weight. He said he got a lot of diarrhea to start with, but again, that could have been microbiome change. But he could do the same thing just eating all lentils for example like it doesn't

is he going to do that next you think I don't think all lentils is a great idea either but you know well old people do that I think old people go all lentils

because they haven't got their teeth yeah they go they sit in diners and they just eat lentil soup yeah we got to go we got to wrap it up

well thank you very much so much James the documentary is obviously right Game Changers it's the Game Changers it's still it's still on Netflix

right now it's on Netflix iTunes Google Play DVD Blu-ray pretty much everywhere you can even get it online

I saw it on YouTube you can get it for like three bucks or four bucks oh yeah YouTube has like a paid channel you can probably find it you know ripped for free somewhere.

Yeah. Just rip it for free. Yeah, just rip it for free. Use your girlfriend's password. Watch it on Netflix. The game changes. Thank you very much, man. Awesome.

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