History Hyenas with Chris Distefano and Yannis Pappas - Walter Pitts: The Tragic Genius Behind AI | History Hyenas

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hun, I will be in Portland, Oregon at Helium Comedy Club, October 8th to the 10th. Go get tickets, Christycom.com. And then October 23, 24th, governors in Long Island. And then November, we have the Charlotte Comedy Zone and a couple of others. Check out Christycom or history hyenaspod.com. We got our dates up there. And I'm hoping to go to Portland soon. And I told them not to book me a hotel room because I want to sleep like the other people in Portland sleep on the street.

Starting point is 00:00:26 I will be in Washington, East East East December 25th, the 20th. I will be in Batavia, Illinois, outside Chicago, October 8th through the 10th, Levitown, Long Island, November 6th, and 7th in L.A., November 11th tickets at Januspapascom. History Hyenas. Yeah, you can go to patreon.com slash history hyenas for our bonus episodes and to join the matriarchy. What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of History Hyenas. Stefano, aka Chrissy Green Shirts. With me as always, Janis Pappas,

Starting point is 00:01:29 aka Yanni, no product in the hair, but still sexy. Today we're going all natural. We're raw dogging it, baby. Now, are you on Malcolm Moore's side or Ed Shearonside? Right out of the gate, I'd like to say, I'd like to say right out of the gate.

Starting point is 00:01:47 What do you want to say? I want to say, October 7th was a tragedy. Yes. Also, what's happening in Palestine is a tragedy. Does that answer your question? That really does. Thank you. Is that the safest way?

Starting point is 00:02:01 What is the safest way to respond to that? Yeah. Without creating iron people. It's like, Ed, listen to me. You don't have to say sorry to anybody. Guess what? Your algorithm probably showed you all the people that don't like you. They don't give a shit.

Starting point is 00:02:16 You're real fans like me. I just want to hear you play the songs. So just get out the guitar, flip your red hair over to the other side, and just sing the songs. You don't need to say you're sorry. for some, okay, some woman that, you know, used to have open for your concert. McElmore's a lady, I don't know, I'm not familiar with her music.

Starting point is 00:02:33 She's just, she seems like a nice lady, but she's just out to lunch a little bit, but she's, you know, it's just some girl that does, that does songs that we used to listen to back in the day. Yeah. I just don't care anymore. Guy. Or Pat Finnegan, I told you, Patty Fly Balls was at the concert when this happened. He was texting like, you never believe what this fucking jerk off your said.

Starting point is 00:02:52 You know, or what they could have done is just. let him say to it and moved on. Yeah. They should have just let him say that. I mean, you know. What do you mean let him say it? Like the popular opinion is just in McElmore's favor. That's funny that McElmore insists this concert costume was not meant to be antismetic.

Starting point is 00:03:12 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What it is.

Starting point is 00:03:14 Yeah. What that is. Yeah. It was meant to be. Yeah. You know what the funny thing is, I can't even think of something else it was meant to be. Yeah. I can't even think of one.

Starting point is 00:03:25 I can't even think of an excuse. It's actually one of, and I don't, you know, whatever, it's one of the most anti-Semitic I would never put that on. I just, can, let's have a fun game. What else is that? Yeah, what else could that possibly be? Yeah, try to think of it. Could it be, well, it's got a big, huge oversized nose.

Starting point is 00:03:45 It's got hair and curls and a long beard. Yeah. Could it be, is it like, you know, like a flamingo? Could have been a flamingo. He could be. Is he a lounge? Is he a Persian lounge singer? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:00 Could he be that? I'm going to guess he's making fun of Jews. Is that the answer? I'm going to, in court of law, what I'm going to do is I'm going to look at the record of things he's been saying and say that that probably is a Puerto Rican bodega owner. That's what it is. It's a Puerto Rican bodega owner. Is his name Felix? But what it is actually, too, is these people...

Starting point is 00:04:26 I see a black guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I see black face. I think it's just, yeah, it's just people. I think they just like the wafts of their own shit a little bit. And it's just, let's just, it's all, it's all narcissism is what it is. It's, I have a platform. I'm going to say this.

Starting point is 00:04:39 It's, no, you want attention because that's what you think will get you the most attention is that. If you really actually care, then you would move to the Gaza Strip and sing your songs. But you're not doing that. You're in your home in Los Angeles. I think McLemore, you know, he donated him, million dollars, that's good. That's actually good. Respect, I respect that. And I think Kraft matched him and he donated like another million. He said it yelled at. That's good. But I also think the way that McLemore and Robert Kraft can really show their devotion for the tragedy

Starting point is 00:05:08 in Gaza is to join Hamas. Yes. I think if they join Hamas, I think that is the best way to show how much they care. I think that's what we can all do. We can all do. We can all do it. And by the way, Ed Shearin got in trouble. Why he really got in trouble and why people started getting is because he blamed the promoter from McElmore. If he would have just said, yeah, I did it because I just don't want to deal with that. Yeah. And literally just said that, I guarantee you, you'd have Illinois, there'd be no controversy. People be like, I like Ed Shearant.

Starting point is 00:05:36 Yeah. Supposedly he didn't sell out the arena, his very next arena show. But, I mean, that just could be people don't want to deal with protests and he'll be fine. He's Ed Shearin. But I think if Ed would have just said that and not try to do some PR statement and just said, like, imagine Ed Shearing just came out. said, guy, I didn't want them on the show because I don't want it. It's not that I don't care. What's going on in Palestine and Israel is both sucks, but I just don't want this lady out there. You know, I just want to sing my songs. I'm Ed Shearin. So yeah, I made the decision. What are you

Starting point is 00:06:04 going to do? Are you going to do anything? Come to the fucking show, asshole. Yeah. Well, if Ed Shearin did that, what did you think people be like, I like this guy? I don't know. I don't know. It's a sticky situation because everyone is very riled up about it. and I do think that the overwhelming majority are in favor of his message. So I think McElmore kind of knows that. And so he just let it fly because I think it's just, I just think that's what the, that's just what the public, that's what the public has decided.

Starting point is 00:06:35 And you think if the public decided the other way McElmore would be doing that? Possibly. Or he would, or he, yeah, I don't think he would do it, maybe doing it as boldly. He would. I don't know. I don't know the guy. I don't know the guy. Ed Shearin also doesn't need openers. No, he could just kind of go out and do his songs. No, but if you pick McLemore to open for you, there's a good chance that that's going to be said. And McElmore's not the only one. I think Dave Matthews just did it.

Starting point is 00:07:03 Did it a free Palestine? He did it a little bit more. He didn't, he wasn't as specific. He didn't yell free Palestine. Who does the talking heads? Who's the guy from that talking heads? Huh? David Byrne. He just did Forest Hill Stadium. boys were there on Saturday. He was doing all political stuff. They said half the stadium walked out. Yeah. Well, especially Fars Hills, it's all Jews there. Yeah. Yeah. So they were like, you know, like everybody's saying this. Everyone keeps saying the same thing though. Yeah. It's just I don't,

Starting point is 00:07:28 I want to listen to your music. Why do I have to be lectured to? Right. About either side of it, which I totally 1,000 percent get. That I get it. It's like, hey, I'm here for the concert. We're all here for the concert. We all kind of know what's going on. Right. You can't really do anything about it. That's why when you come to one of my comedy shows, you'll only be lectured about one group and that's Puerto Ricans. When you come to my time, the show the only thing I'm going to be talking about is Israel Palestine. I do 60 minutes at Israel Palestine. Yeah, I get the crowd onto both sides.

Starting point is 00:07:54 I have an Israeli section. I have a Palestinian section. It's just, it's so interesting that this has hit Ed Sheeran. Like, you could- Nobody's safe. Nobody's safe. I mean, you couldn't have less to do with the Israel-Palestine conflict than Ed Shearant. Yeah, do you think?

Starting point is 00:08:10 You just have nothing to do with it. And somehow now he's in it. And he's in it. So that's, but that's what it is. It's like, you know, it's like when Chris Rock was like, look, I'm just not going to have any females on my staff are open for me because I just don't want to get involved in any controversy. I'm just going to have guys. Yeah. That's what Ed Sheeran should be doing. It's like, I'm just not going to have anybody. And she just had people open from that nobody's ever heard of and nobody cares about them anyway. Why would you have McClamor on? It doesn't make any sense. I think at this point, everyone should just accept that if you have some sort of public visibility, something will be grown on you. At some point, something will be projected on you and you will be pulled into something. It's just the way the crudles crumble. And it just, it's a glorious time to not unknown. To be unknown. I mean, if you were anonymous out there, just rejoice. Rejoice. It is a good time to be Jesse Skittoro. Yeah. And he probably doesn't even like me using his name on this podcast. Well, we, I mean, we literally showed his face on a podcast for 20,

Starting point is 00:09:13 seconds once three years ago and he's all over the internet. I mean, the kids had tangerines on his head. They've just gone wild. But it's just a good time to be somewhat known, not famous. Not famous. The sweet spot. Yeah. And unfortunately, we have both chosen careers where the only way we can make money is to try to get more famous. So we are unfortunately, as you say, fucked. But I think this is the first time in history. I think everyone has it in their consciousness. Like, yeah, you want to get more famous, but you want to control it. I think, I think, Everyone's like controlling it. Everyone's going like, should I post this viral thing?

Starting point is 00:09:47 And they're like, no, maybe I'll just think. I like right where I'm at. Yeah. I like right where I'm at. I think it is in everyone's head a little bit, either consciously or subconsciously knowing that when you do step out a little bit more into the limelight, it's like, it's like deer hunting. Yeah. There's just, there's hunters out there and they're just going to, I mean, Ed Shearin, before this happened, how do you even tie Ed Shearin to Israel, Palestine? How do you even put him in it?

Starting point is 00:10:14 I have no idea. He's a red-headed potato. He's a red-headed. Is he Irish or something? I think he's Irish from England or whatever, but he's the most non-controversial guy, one of the most talented artists of all time. Yeah, he's got to have talent because look at the way he looks. And he just made it off.

Starting point is 00:10:29 His voice is beautiful. He's a musical genius. I mean, English and Irish, yeah. That kid looks like he should be handing me a Guinness at a pub. Yeah, it's just what it is. It doesn't look like you should be a pop star. He's from England. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:10:42 I mean, there he is. Nice kid. Just a nice kid. He's just trying to just go out there and play music. Do you think he was like fucking McElmore? Shut up? I think he was like, fuck. I think it was a pickle that like at that point, I think of what happens is a lot of these guys.

Starting point is 00:10:58 If you run your fingers through your hair one more time. You're going to fuck me. I'm going to come over there and kiss you softly on both butt cheeks. I'm going to fog up your glasses. You know what happens when these things happen? I think these guys that are really big, like Ed Sheernan. I think they lean on their PR people. And this is when you really find out that those are, what is a PR guy?

Starting point is 00:11:19 What is that? Their person that gets you into more trouble. They just go, it's just, you're asking a guy's opinion who you're paying because he like gets you articles. $15,000 a month or shit like that. It's got crazy numbers. And you just lean on them and they go, okay, this is the way you do it. And they go, you're going to go out there, you're going to cry.

Starting point is 00:11:36 And you're going to give him an apology. And it just doesn't work. Yeah. It just doesn't work. What was his apology? Edge? Can we just Google that? And then we're going to get into today's episode.

Starting point is 00:11:45 That's about the founding of AI, but it's stories you've never heard. And it's from the 1940s. How wild is that statement that we just made? Now we're not on the Patreon. Now we're not on the Patreon. You just scooped and sniffed. Yeah, and we're still smelling good. Ed Shearin issued a tearful on-stage apology.

Starting point is 00:12:04 Calls Israel's treatment of Gazans unjustifiable. But that's headline. Let's see what he did. I think, yeah, what did he say? What did he say? What did he say? What's happening in Gaza is catastrophic. That's true and unjustifiable and disproportionate and the systemic injustice we're seeing unfolding in the West Bank cannot be overlooked. Okay, all those things are good. But then he also said October 7, 2023 where Hamas attacked, he called them horrific. He tried. They compounded centuries of Jewish pain. So, so the kid just kind of did a nothing burger.

Starting point is 00:12:31 He just wants out. He just wants out. Which I would too. Yeah. I just, it's just you just kind of want out because, but then people say because you want out, you're contributing to the problem, and then people who understand that it's okay that some people are out, you go like, what's Ed Shearin going to do? The only way out is to be anonymous. That's the only way out is if nobody thinks about you. Then you're out. Or there's another good way to be out.

Starting point is 00:12:55 Tell me! Stay the fuck away from Macklemore. Yeah. All you're going to do is stay three blocks away from McLemore and there's a good chance you won't be pulled into it. That's just a good rule of life. How we said last week we don't fuck with Albanians. Another rule we do is we stay far away from McElmore.

Starting point is 00:13:09 You want to stay far away. That's another rule that we have on the docket. I used to stay far away from McLemore because of his music. Right. But now I'm staying far away from McLeor because I just don't want people thinking I'm responsible for the genocide in golf. And I do, Ed Sheeran, I would fire your PR team because when you said, hey, guys, what do you think of McElmore opening for me? They should have pulled up that picture. They should have pulled it up.

Starting point is 00:13:29 Of him dressed as Ari Shefier. But instead, they said, we think it's a good idea because you've paid these people to be yes men. But that would have been the first clue of don't have him on. Yeah. Because McElmore's not doing anything about being a McElmore. Yeah. He's just being who he's always been. That's okay.

Starting point is 00:13:45 Hey, that's okay. That's okay. But if you're going to be on an Ed Sheeran concert, you might get in trouble. Now, let me ask you this. Did McElmore, has he been doing this at almost every concert? He's all in Fred? So why all of a sudden did the concert at MetLife spark this controversy? Because it's in New York?

Starting point is 00:14:00 Because it was in New York. The news caught wind of it. and because it was Ed Shearin's tour. But my point is, McElmore has been opening for Ed Shearan. He probably has done this at other concerts. Was it New York or was it a Robert Kraft venue? I think it had to do with the rock.

Starting point is 00:14:15 No, Robert Kraft canceled the tour. That's what it is. I think Pink tweeted about it. Pink, the singer. Oh. She was in solidarity with McElmore. No, no, no, no. She's Jewish.

Starting point is 00:14:27 She keeps talking about all this anti-Semitism. Oh, Pink is Jewish. I didn't know that. She was at the concert. She was offended by Maclemore. She was offended. So she, it's really... I see.

Starting point is 00:14:37 Even though she used to be black. Right. She did used to be black. So it is pink's fault. Yeah. God, come on, pink. There's no way out of this. The thing is, like, there's no way out of this pickle.

Starting point is 00:14:50 There's no way out of it. They are in a pickle. They're in a pickle. Also, too, I don't know what Ed Sheeran's lifestyle is. I'm sure he doesn't need money anymore. So you can also just choose to go away for a minute. Ed doesn't need to be on the road doing this. Or maybe he does.

Starting point is 00:15:04 I don't know because people's burnt. Because I can tell you that it doesn't matter how much you make. It matters how much you spend. I don't know. I don't know how you get at. I don't know. I'm trying to think like right now I'm trying to do a little thought experiment, trying to figure out. I want you to do a thought experiment.

Starting point is 00:15:18 Let's do a thought of. How could he have gotten out of this? Ed Sheeran? Yeah. Like what should he have done? Honestly, I'm being honest with you. And granted, I'm not in this kid's situation. But I'm being honest with you.

Starting point is 00:15:30 Just I know the story took on a lot of, you know, massive, you know, the media ran with it, whatever, to distract from whatever, or maybe because it's about Jews. And I have no idea, but it got bigger than it probably should be. But I honestly think Ed Sheeran should have either said what I said earlier, in his own words, be like, I've let go of McElmore because I just don't want these distractions on the tour. And I made a mistake having them open for me. Come to my concert. I'm just going to play music. I think things are bad in Gaza and Israel. And I'm sorry, I don't care. You know, basically like I'm not political. I'm Ed Sheeran. come sing the songs or don't, that, and then people be whatever, or say truly nothing.

Starting point is 00:16:08 You crying on stage, you crying on stage saying that you support both sides in some way, shape, or form was the absolute wrong movement. You paid PR people hundreds of thousands of dollars to tell you to do that, when you shouldn't have done that. Well, they were protesting at his, there was like a riot outside of his next concert. Yeah, listen, again, I don't know what it is to have that kind of money, those kind of fans or whatever, but I think the only way through is to kind of just say, well, let them protest and fuck you, we don't care, let's just sing along. Because I think most people

Starting point is 00:16:37 don't care. Yeah. That's the thing. Most people don't care. Most people are followers. So you just tell them, hey, this is how you're supposed to think. Yeah. And then they'll think that way, especially for a guy like Ed Sheeran, most people don't care at all. You know, it's a tough one. It seems to me that I think this is something that he wants everybody to like him. Nobody's, that's not going to happen, guy. Yeah, but that's who he is. You know, it's like, that's his thing. He's like, He's not a, he's like a pop star. He's like a thing. It's like, yeah, I guess it's not, I guess Ed Sheeran also proves that you just can't do that.

Starting point is 00:17:09 It's not going to happen anymore. Yeah, you're not going to get everybody like you anymore. Those days are over. Days are over. So I would do what do you actually, what do you think? Because deep down, what does the kid actually feel? And it's probably like the answer is probably like, look, I fucking made close to a billion dollars. I'm from a farm in England.

Starting point is 00:17:26 I live in a state in L.A. or wherever I live. I don't give a fuck. Yeah. I don't both sides. I don't care. I don't sell tickets. in the Middle East. What I would have done is I would have got right on the phone with Pink.

Starting point is 00:17:37 Right on the phone. Right on the phone. Right on the phone with Pink. Yep. And said, hey, you know, this would have just been another concert. Yeah. If you didn't write a 1,300 word Instagram statement. What did she say? Let's bring that what she said. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're not going to be able to read it because it's 1300 words.

Starting point is 00:17:56 Yeah, yeah. It's like, you know what he does. So what she did fucking backfire. Can we play his video? Jesse, just read it. real quick, the 42-second one right there. I never want to be an activist musician, because I want to just hear what he said. I want to hear what he said in his voice. Again, I don't, but it's also like guys

Starting point is 00:18:10 for years and years and years, for the beginning of time, everybody always wants to be famous and do this. It's like, this is what you have, you really don't want to be in the public eye anymore. No way, Jose. Yeah, can we see that? Yeah, it was a five different video. Oh, oh, is that no, oh, is that, uh...

Starting point is 00:18:25 It was two apologies also. It was two different. But that was the most recent one. Yeah, but it was two in the same night. Like, you made a statement first. And then he then was, I think was the crying one where he felt bad for making a statement. So it was like an apology for the apology. And that's why people are mad now. Sorry, but.

Starting point is 00:18:42 Basically, there were two apologies. Like, he made the first statement about Israel, Palestine. And then I think he made a second statement where he's on the floor crying, saying, I didn't want to make a statement, blah, blah, blah. So it was almost like an apology. Is he getting booed or cheered? I think that was just everything because now he's not, you know, and there's a video of him coming out in support of Ukraine from years ago.

Starting point is 00:19:01 so it's like, oh, so you'll make a statement. They did catch him on that. Yeah. So it's like you'll make a statement when everybody wants you to, you know. Right. They did catch him on that. Let's all right. Yeah, let's see it.

Starting point is 00:19:11 Pink open the can of worms. Cancel. And I'm feeling all of my friends and family and people I know have abandoned me. And I look at the end of the week and I see 50,000 people who haven't abandoned. And I walked it. I've felt so much love. and from you guys and I'm so good

Starting point is 00:19:34 Yeah He's a likable guy I don't you know Well that's the funny part about it All right But he did They did find that he did Do his statement

Starting point is 00:19:51 In support of Ukraine What are you gonna do So it's like What are you gonna do? Yeah all right All right well That's it Yeah

Starting point is 00:19:58 There's not much to be done about it At this point You gotta get rid of Netanyahu That would be a good start Get rid of Nettaniahu Get rid of Netanyahu. Vote him out. Whatever you got to do.

Starting point is 00:20:11 He's the guy that's got to just be changed like a diaper. Yeah, it's just what it is. It's just, yeah, there's just a little, too many problems with Israel. There's too many problems. You just got to start by maybe changing him. Yeah. Maybe change. Is there another guy over there?

Starting point is 00:20:26 Yeah, can we do another guy? Ladies, there's somebody else over there that can just, we get a fresh start. Yeah, let's just use, let's just go back to the bagels, the Kenishas, let's have a little fun over here. You know when you're doing a sketch and you make a mistake? You take that one and you throw it. Yeah, you just whoopsie it and you start with a new fresh paper. All right. So, all right.

Starting point is 00:20:42 So, but today we're going to really, what we're really going to get into is taking a hard turn is AI. Cuzz, let me tell you something. When I like to have a couple of sips of alcohol, I always take my Z biotics before I do it. I love these biotics, babe. I love these Z biotics. I've been using them. It's the pre-alcohol probiotic drink.

Starting point is 00:21:01 It is awesome. I'm telling you, dude, there's no, it's sold 14 million bottles. it says. I get why. Because when you make pre-alcohol your first night, your first drink of the night, you enjoy the next day activities. You don't, you don't, you just are ready to go the next day. It gives everything that's taken away. It is just something that makes the next day feel great. It was engineered by PhD microbiologists to break down asateldehyde. Asseltelehyde an unwanted byproduct of alcohol metabolism. Because here's the thing, I guess, You got to be intentional about what you put in your body.

Starting point is 00:21:38 You think ahead. And this pre-alcohol, the Zbiotics, the pre-alcohol probiotic drink, it's just a good way to think ahead. I mean, look, dude, try for yourself today. And if you're unsatisfied, they will refund your entire order. No questions asked. So that's how you know what companies means what they say. They'll give you a full refund. All you got to do is go to zbiotics.com slash hyenas.

Starting point is 00:21:59 Code hyenas for 15% off your first order. Zbiotics is a partner of mine, a partner of this show. It's a part of me and Yanni. Zbiotics.com slash hyenas. Code hyenas, 15% off your first order. Because you know what I need? What? I need an executive assistant who is not there in person because that's distracting.

Starting point is 00:22:22 That can be very distracted because we know who I'd hire. I'd hire someone who's a little too hot who would tempt me. Well, that's why because I found this company and I can give you what you've been dreaming of and I'll give it a Greek name. This place, your company, the thing that you need is Athena E.A. Ooh. It's one person. It's yours full time.

Starting point is 00:22:44 Not a pool, not a bot, not someone you share with four of the founders. They start with the inbox, the calendar, the travel, the dentist appointment you've rescheduled twice. Then they take the vendor research, the board deck, the CRM you've let rot, the follow-ups you've been meaning to send. They come from the top 1% of 60,000 monthly applicants, and they're trained on the AI tools you've been meaning a set up for two years. your EA automates the repetitive half and spends their judgment on the half that needs a person. Athena. This is Athena. This is, Athena is really what you need.

Starting point is 00:23:12 Yep. It takes away all of that stress and that jumble in your brain figuring out where you got to do, what you got to be, where you got to do. Yeah. It just helps you and that's what we all need. Guys, go to Athena.com slash cackle. Fun promo code. Athena.com slash cackle, C-A-C-K-L-L-E. now and get match with your EA. That's Athena.com slash cackle. Founders who wait, stay buried. Founders who go

Starting point is 00:23:39 to Athena.com slash tackle today. Get their time back this month. AI. Is AI because cause you, you again, I like when we feed off the natural passionate energy. Of course, for months, we fed off the Shrath of Turin. Then we fed off the Satan is distortion. We fed off St. Thomas Aquinas. And now we're going to feed off where it all becomes possible. a little bit of AI, but not just general AI, chatubit, people know that. We're going to talk about a little guy named Alan Turing, and then how that leads to one of the craziest stories

Starting point is 00:24:14 of Warren McCulloch and Walter Pitts, who really kind of people say if this stuff, especially Walter Pitts's paper, would have not been destroyed by him. We would have gotten to AI, where we are now, about 40 years ago. Perhaps. That's what they say.

Starting point is 00:24:32 So take us, I like to know your origin story, hun. So how did we get here? What brought you to this? This is one of the most, like I, you know, it's very rarely that you get moved by a story. So this is like a- Even though the last four stories of Shrout of Turin, St. Thomas Aquinas and the Devil Destroiting have all moved you, but yes, it's rare. Now I moved again. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:24:53 Yeah, you're right. You're there. I'm moved mover. So this is a very human story. Yeah. It's almost like goodwill hunting in a way. Mm-hmm. So yes.

Starting point is 00:25:02 We're, you know, this is how AI was invented. This is how AI started. But the story behind how this happened is so fascinating. You're talking about a kid named Walter Pitts. Okay. He grows up in Detroit, right? He is a child genius, which, as we said on the Patreon, patreon. Patreon.com slash history hyenas, we made reference to it a little bit.

Starting point is 00:25:27 They haven't figured out how this happens, right? You get a kid. He's just born at six years old. just like the kids is brilliant, right? So back then we called it a child genius. Today we call it a child with autism. Child with autism, whatever. He's a kid.

Starting point is 00:25:39 You know, he gets bullied a bit. His dad roughs him up a little bit. His dad's like a boiler plumber. Right. Right. From Detroit. From Detroit. His dad's like just a working class boiler plumber who likes to tune him up a little

Starting point is 00:25:53 bit. It's just what it is. And whenever he starts talking about math, he just calls him a gay kid. Sure. And he says, I want you to drop out of school, go to trade school, and join the family business and just tune up boilers with me. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:26:05 So it's basically... Oh, you get tuned up. Oh, you get tuned up. So the kid has sort of a rough, chaotic childhood that makes him very sad. He doesn't have a lot of love in his life and his dad does not really accept him for who he is. Right.

Starting point is 00:26:17 His dad wants him to be a version of his ego, extension of his ego. Sure. So the kid is getting teased. He's getting bullied in school. He famously goes into a library. At 11 years old or 12 years old? 12 years old.

Starting point is 00:26:35 And he spent several days there. He didn't leave. He spent several days there. And he read all of Bertrand Russell's Principia Mathematica. Which is an extraordinary difficult work of mathematical logic. It's really hard to comprehend. Yes. It's not something for anyone in this room.

Starting point is 00:26:55 Yeah, it's not just casual reading. It's not for us. No. It's not casual reading. He reads the whole thing. and he writes to Bertrand Russell with a few, with corrections. Yeah, he actually pointed out the mistakes that Bertrand Russell made. He pointed out the mistakes that Bertrand Russell,

Starting point is 00:27:10 one of the most towering geniuses in human history. He points out a few of the mistakes at 12 fucking years old. Yeah. Okay. This kid is 12. Yeah. All right. Bertrand Russell receives it is so impressed.

Starting point is 00:27:23 He like invites him, right? Fides him to, I think, what was it, Oxford? No, Chicago, University of Chicago. Because he was a visiting professor there. at the time. He invites him to Chicago. This kid runs away from home. He's like, he's so unhappy at home. He runs away from home. By this point,

Starting point is 00:27:41 also, let's just say, he taught himself Greek and Latin. So he just taught himself Greek and Latin. So he's fluent in Greek and Latin. He's also a mathematical genius. So he goes and he doesn't even really respond to Bertrand Russell like a way a normal person would. He just kind of shows up. Yeah. He just kind of shows up and attends the lecture. Right. And

Starting point is 00:28:00 one of the stories is he starts talking to Bertrand Russell, and Bertrand Russell gets impressed by him again, not knowing it was him. Right. So, and so next thing you know, now he's homeless in Chicago. Right. He's just a homeless. Which is not a good place to be because it gets cold there. It gets really cold.

Starting point is 00:28:19 So he runs away at 15. He's homeless. He drifts around Chicago. And he just attends these lectures. Right. Just goes into these lectures. And he's not even a student there. He's not even a student there.

Starting point is 00:28:30 he gets fascinated by a couple other eggheads. One of this guy's name is Rudolph Carnap. Yeah, he's teacher of the university. He doesn't know how to introduce himself. He doesn't know his autism. Yeah, he apparently walked into the guy's office carrying a copy of Carnap's own book. Which is something I would do when I started stand-up comedy. Yes.

Starting point is 00:28:53 That's me walking into your show at Bar-Forcing. Can I help you lift stereo equipment to open for you? Yes, he just walks in and he gets. give some corrections and annotations again, and Carnap is blown away. And then Pitts disappears again without identifying himself. By the way, that was one of the big themes in his life, even when he started working on this stuff with other serious intellectuals. He always said, I don't want my name.

Starting point is 00:29:19 I don't want anyone to know my name for whatever reason. That's interesting. Yeah, because, well, he was obsessed with. He thought that everything is logical. He was like the universe is logical. Intelligence is logical. Okay. He was like he was going after this certainty.

Starting point is 00:29:34 This is the answer. This is what it is. It's logic. Got it. He's logic and he's thought that you had to get rid of your ego completely in order to fully be able to understand it and describe it. Right. So he was into this life. He's like the brain is a logic machine and this is just what it is.

Starting point is 00:29:53 And neurons firing, binary firing of neurons. intellect and that's it. Okay. And that's it. Right. So that's what he was, that was his vision. It was just a certainty. And you can tell he comes from this chaotic, uncertain background. This was kind of his escape. He just wants certainty. This worldview is kind of his escape. If you look at this psychologically, it's like, this is his escape. He's like, this is, this is my outside solution that's going to fix all this pain. Now is he just, I don't want to jump head, but I'm just getting curious. Is he going to find Jesus at some point? No, he doesn't find Jesus. Well, okay. So this is a very interesting, Yonni story.

Starting point is 00:30:28 that we want to talk about where Jesus is not found at the bottom of the cup. No, what's found at the bottom of the cup is, can I have another? Okay. The kid develops what you call a little bit of a sauce problem. He'd like to throw them back. He liked to throw them back, but that happens later. So... By the way, yesterday at dinner, Ann Eileen had three spottings and had to get walked down

Starting point is 00:30:47 the stairs. She had to get walked down the neutrals into her house, and I proudly did it. That's great when she drinks upstairs. She doesn't have to go outside to get home. No, no. I just walked her down the neutrals, and I put her on the key. couch and she just she has a red blanket that she said to your kid and she asked me to put on murder she wrote and that was it she fell asleep but she had three spot ands to the dome she took him to

Starting point is 00:31:06 just have fun but i mean again i like to say it is very nice you go upstairs get tuned up and you don't got to put on a jacket to go home yeah and then you get walked down by your gay nephew but if you're really drunk she might he said lydge should i call an uba and then lynn reminds her no baby you just got to get down the neutrals yeah yeah so um eventually uh he uh he you know, he's just a kid hanging around, right? Homeless, kind of drifting around. Nobody really knows anything about him. And he meets this psychiatrist and neurophysiologist, Warren McCullough.

Starting point is 00:31:41 Now, this is where it starts. Pitt and McCullough become a team. Yes. So McCullough at the time is in his 40s. This kid is 17 at the time. He's 17 years old. Right. He meets him.

Starting point is 00:31:55 And, you know, McCullough, much like. like the other intellectuals that encounter him is like, wow, this guy is, this kid, this kid is a child genius. Right. And so McCullough takes him in. Right. McCullough decides you're homeless, you're going to live with me. Which I'm sure McCullough's wife was thrilled about. I'm sure she was thrilled about. Bring in this homeless 17 year old with autism. So they become extremely close and McCullough becomes like the first father figure to this kid. Yes, big deal for him. So they hang out and they start having parties like they would have parties. They would like skinny dip.

Starting point is 00:32:30 They would drink. They would have parties. And then at night, McCullough and Pitts would jam. And they would like philosophize and do math. But let me ask you this. Those parties was that really put on more by like was McCullough always doing that? Or only when Pitts came into this life. Was Pitts the kind of catalyst for the parties you think?

Starting point is 00:32:46 I don't know. I think that these guys just were fun and they were just having a good time. I mean, yeah, you got a homeless genius that you're going to have, you're going to have, you're going to want some people to come over. throw some bruise around, jump in the pool. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they would, at night, at nighttime, whenever we were sleeping, they would start working.

Starting point is 00:33:02 The two of them would start working. And they... This is in the middle of World War II, by the way. This is 1943, so war is raging. Right. So, you know, the Turing thing, Turing's doing his thing. But Pitts and McCullough really are the ones who...

Starting point is 00:33:19 This paper is like what caused AI. Because they invented the math. mathematical neuron. Yes. So they basically figured out through mathematical logic how a neuron activity of a neuron could be represented mathematically and basically like how a brain could be represented mathematically. So once you know the math of that, then you can theoretically make a machine to be a brain.

Starting point is 00:33:43 Right. They're basically saying that. They're basically saying like a neuron, you know, it's just zero and ones. It's binary. Boom. It's what computer codes is. It's all different series and zeros and ones. And the brain is the same way.

Starting point is 00:33:58 And that's how intelligence works. And so we can build something artificial that's a reflection of that that produces intelligence. Right. And intelligence, more specifically, it will reason. That's how reason is born. So this thing, you know, it's not just a computer where you ask it, a question and it, you know, researches and gives you the answer. It reasons on its own. Right.

Starting point is 00:34:21 Right. So the paper described the simplified neuron that received inputs, applied a threshold, and produced an output. That's zero and one. Networks of these artificial neurons could perform logical operations. So this is still, to this day, called the McCullough-Pitts neuron. Right. And it's one of the ancestors of today's artificial neural networks. And this work really established the broader idea that mental activity is computation.

Starting point is 00:34:51 It's the same thing as what a computer does, what AI does now. Our brains are just... Our brains are like computers in that way. It's all zeros and ones happening quickly and we're spitting out ideas. Right, right. So, um... So Pitts eventually comes into the orbit of a man who, if this man with a name like this, if he doesn't become a famous scientist or something, he's going to be really up Schitt's Creek,

Starting point is 00:35:12 his name was Norbert Weiner. Yes. So if your name's Norbert Weiner, you're most likely have to be some kind of scientist or egghead because your name is Norbert, Weiner is what the name is on the birth certificate. When they, I bet you the doctors were like, ma'am, are you sure that this is the name that we have to put down legally? The name is Norbert. Weiner is the name.

Starting point is 00:35:33 So if he doesn't get into cybernetics and things like this, I don't know what the kid would actually do. I think actually the name probably made him be who he was. Right. When you have that name, you're just like, I have to be this guy now. I have to fill the shoes of this name. Yeah, I have to fill up the glasses of my name. because you got a face that you could be named Norbert Wiener. I mean Norbert Wiener.

Starting point is 00:35:52 Yeah. So just to explain it, so what Pitts realizes is that a neuron could be mathematically simplified as a binary switch. So zero is the neuron does not fire. One is the neuron fires. So each neuron receives signals, zeros and ones from other neurons. It adds them up and fires only if the total reaches a chosen threshold. For example, imagine a neuron receives two. inputs. Threshold two. It fires only when both inputs are one. That performs and threshold one. It

Starting point is 00:36:24 fires when either input is one that performs or. An inhibitory input prevents the firing. That can perform not. So it's just basically... So when we're hitting keyboards, that's what it's doing. Like, our reasoning is produced by that firing from the neurons to each other. Right. And it can be mathematically described as zeros and ones. So that's the birth of that. Got it. So it's kind of fucking crazy to think that that explains, that simple switch explains like logical statements, you know?

Starting point is 00:37:03 Right. And stuff like that. It's wild. So they explain that thought can conceivably emerge from enormous networks of individually simple physical events. so they didn't they didn't prove that real brains literally operate as clean zeros and ones real neurons are chemicals variably noisy and affected by timing they proved that a simplified network of neuron like unix was computational computationally powerful and that helped create

Starting point is 00:37:33 the intellectual foundation for what we now know as digital neural network yeah so so with this kid norbert weiner because this was a big deal he was at mit he was a big professor at mit he loved his kid Pitts too because his kid's a genius they said Pitts would walk into mathematical discussions with the bigwigs and just start following

Starting point is 00:37:51 just start following along criticizing them so this place so basically the kid Pitts is in a crazy circle of thinkers who they're all asking the same question from different directions

Starting point is 00:38:02 and what that question was is can machines imitate the processes of the brain that's basically what AI is right now but Pitts hated school he hated academia so you would expect someone who helped lay the mathematical foundations of AI to be celebrated professor, but he wasn't.

Starting point is 00:38:18 He didn't even finish high school. He didn't go to the schools. He didn't care. He dropped out of high school, yeah. He didn't want academic status or conventional scientific career advances or degrees. He never completed anything from high school to college to grad school. Nothing, he didn't care. He was almost like, I don't even care if you remember my name, I'm not about that. He was, Jesus, a little bit. He was obsessed with proving that this is what everything is. It's all logical. It's all logical. It's all logical and it's based on this and everything can be explained through this. So, you know, it's all these things going on.

Starting point is 00:38:49 He does all this great work. And now here's where, just if you scroll down just a little bit, here's where it goes, it's tragic. Well, then another guy gets in. They formed like a little crew. The other guy was Jerome Letvin. And he was a guy who was studying the nervous system. Yeah, Jerome Letvin, Norbert Weiner, Pitts and the other kid McCullough, as David Tell would call them, the unfuckables. They were the unfuckables.

Starting point is 00:39:12 They were a crew and these guys got very close and they were hanging out and they'd sit around, they'd drink, they'd theorize, they'd philosophize, they'd do math, they would jam and it basically brought neuroscience, mathematics, psychology, electrical engineering, philosophy, information theory and computing together. Right. Right. So they were just like they were like the Sturpe team investigating the shroud. Got me. Because you know that we've been eating good. We've been cooking good. I found a company, you know, I love these meal kits, forkful.

Starting point is 00:39:46 Cuzz, forkful, they got no seed oils, chef cooked, fresh, never frozen, ready to eat meals, high quality premium proteins, grass-fed bison, wild-caughts, salmon. You know I love salmons. You're a salmon kid. And vegetables, I'm telling you, cuz, forkful is the spot. I love forkful because my wife's not a great cook. I'll just say it. So yeah. So I just use it. You just use it. And it's delicious. And it gets delivered right through your door within 24 to 48 hours. eating well doesn't need to be complicated they got fully prepared deliciously healthy meals no meal prep cooking or cleanup clean flavors ready in three minutes i'm telling you because i had the truffle mac and cheese bang i had the chimichura uh filet mignon with creamy spinach and asparagus that's what you

Starting point is 00:40:27 had yes that's what i had yeah and guess what my pee did smell but the meal was good cause the listen and when we do cook you know we cook the wives cook it's bland it's not good that's why forkful it's just the game changer. So right now, explore the plans and menu of fresh, ready to eat meals at forkful meals.com.

Starting point is 00:40:47 Use code hyenas to get 50% off your first order. That's forkful meals. Dot com slash hyenas. Use promo code hyenas for 50% off. Thanks to Forkful for sponsoring this episode. Cause this episode sponsored by Blue Chew, you know we have had,

Starting point is 00:41:04 how Cox have been so hard lately. I don't like, even when I'm not doing any, frisky business? Yeah. I like to just pop one just so I can stay on guard. Me too.

Starting point is 00:41:14 I like to just stay hard and ready to go just in case somebody wants to get porked. My dick is ready. Blue chew. I like walking around with the blue chew cock because most ED meds

Starting point is 00:41:24 they only focus on blood flow. But blah, but blue chew gold goes further by combining two ingredients for blood flow with two fermental arousal and connection. So you're not physically ready

Starting point is 00:41:33 or actually in the mood. This type of innovation is why blue chew gold is the number one brand in erectile Function. Get started today at Bluetooth.com and go for gold, baby. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:41:45 And we've got a special deal for the listeners. Right now when you buy two months of Bluetooth gold, you get the third for free with promo code hyenas. That's promo code hyenas. Visit Bluetooth.com for more details and important safety information. We thank Bluetooth for sponsoring the podcast and sponsoring my cock. So Pitt, you know, he was, you know, again, because Kim most likely had some type of, you know, personality,

Starting point is 00:42:06 you know, not personality story, but he was probably autism on the spectrum. him a little bit. It wasn't good social skills. It's fine. It's okay. His brain was amazing. So he develops this great relationship, as we said, with McCullough. He took him in. It was like a father figure to him. And then Norbert, there was a major rupture. Yeah, because Norman Weiner. Norbert. Norbert Weiner also became like a father. These were all father figures to him. Everybody wanted this kid. Well, think about it, dude. Think about it like psychologically.

Starting point is 00:42:33 This was what caught me, right? So his father rejects him for who he is. Right. Right. Then he's, because he's smart and he wants to pursue this and his father goes, that's gay. You're being gay. Sure. Come with me to the Shane Gillis concert. Yeah. And we're going to do this. Right.

Starting point is 00:42:49 We're going to be plumbers, right? And then he finds these intellectual father figures who accept him for who he is. So like they're accepting him for what his father rejected him for. So now he sees them as like his father figures. Right. So it's a very important relationship for him where he's finally accepted. and then this thing happens where Norbert Wiener's wife. Yeah, this is the, I mean, this is why it's better to be gay.

Starting point is 00:43:19 So Norbert Wiener's wife, right? Yeah, she hated McCullough. Real bitch this lady. Yeah, she hated McCuller for whatever reason. She didn't like his influence. She didn't like the party. She just didn't like it. So, nor she.

Starting point is 00:43:34 This is Norbert Wiener's wife, we're saying. Norbert Wiener's wife. No, not McCuller's wife. white, right? So, uh, so Wiener's wife says um, that she thinks

Starting point is 00:43:48 that, um, pits. No, not Pits. Someone. She said one of the, one of them. She didn't point out Pits at all. Right. Oh, I thought she specifically said Pits. No, she never specifically said Pits. That's what so. That's what really tore him up was she says one of them made a pass at our daughter, our young daughter, right? And the wife's name was Margaret.

Starting point is 00:44:17 So she hates McCullough for whatever reason. She hates the social circle of these guys. You know, they're partying, they're thinking, they're spending a lot of time together. So she tells her husband that one of McCullough's young associates, that's what she said. She didn't specify a name. young associates had behaved sexually toward their daughter in some way

Starting point is 00:44:43 made a pass or grabbed her or whatever and the door was Barbara while she was staying at McCullough's home right because these guys were all intermingled hanging out of each other's houses and Weiner believed her because it was his daughter the wife yeah

Starting point is 00:44:59 and it's his daughter in 1952 he just severed contact with McCullough's entire group, including Pitts, and he wouldn't give Pitts an opportunity to answer. Because I guess young associate, it implied Pitts. Right. So he never even gave Pitts the opportunity to explain. He just said, we're done. He just said, we're done. And that was it. He never spoke to him again. He didn't respond. In his life, he never spoke to me again. That was it. He cut them all off. It was just, it was over. McCullough, Weiner, they were just done. They were done because of that.

Starting point is 00:45:31 And nobody knows exactly like what happened. But there was other tensions. Weiner worried that Pitts wasn't finishing his dissertation, disliked the group's chaotic behavior, and may have believed McCullough had professionally embarrassed him with unreliable neuroscience information. But the family allegations appear to be what triggered the final break. So in other words, there was other tensions between McCullough and Weiner.

Starting point is 00:45:58 But this was the, right. Supposedly, that's what happened. but most historians think that Pitts actually didn't do it. Yeah. Nothing happened. Yeah, because Barbara, when she grew up a little bit, she kind of said, nobody ever really made a pass. I mean, my mom was basically just telling me to say that.

Starting point is 00:46:17 Right. So that is the pickle. And here's the thing is Walter Pitt, but the Walter Pitts, you know, he of course eventually dies of alcoholism, as the honest said, which, of course, you know, we all saw coming. But the biggest problem is Walter Pitts had done. all this research years and years and years of things that nobody else could prove that he proved. And then when the other guys basically went off, they basically left Pitts by the wayside and they went off and continued doing research. They wrote a paper called something like the frog

Starting point is 00:46:52 and its eyes. Right. So what happened. Tell me about that. Yeah. So what happened was these guys, it was actually McCullough, him and like two other guys, different guys. But they, not pits, though. No, Pitts was there. There was Pitts, McCullough, and two other guys. Not, what's his name? Not Weiner. Norbert. Not Norbert.

Starting point is 00:47:12 It was two other guys. So in 1959, this was another, this were the two things that you can really see, like, change the kid pitch. Right. Right. So the paper, all right, they set out to figure out, like, a frog's eye. They thought the frog's eye was actually more like a camera lens. Right. So it was like getting information from the brain.

Starting point is 00:47:34 and the eye was just a lens for the brain. Right. But what they found out is a lot fucking weirder. It's a total, it kind of flew in the face of what... Pitts believed. Pits believed. So it disturbed him to a level... It wasn't logical.

Starting point is 00:47:53 It wasn't, yeah. It well, it wasn't, it wasn't... What the frog's eye tells the frog's brain. Yes. What the frog's eye tells the frog's brain was the name. of the paper. It was published in 1959. Well, here it says the frog, it said what they discovered was surprising. The frog's eye isn't simply sending a raw photographic image to the brain. Specialized neurons in the retina appear to detect particular features of the environment. So, for example,

Starting point is 00:48:23 some retinal cells respond strongly to things resembling small dark objects, moving across the frog's visual field, sudden changes in brightness, movement in particular direction. So instead of eye, raw picture, figures everything out. The system was eye detects meaningful features. Brain receives process information. Why does this matter for AI? Because this was hugely influential because it suggested that intelligence begins with information being selectively processed rather than simply collecting enormous amounts of raw data. It's an important bridge between the McCullough-Pitts artificial neuron of 1943 and Walter Pitts was one of the authors of this, making it a fascinating second chapter in the story. So

Starting point is 00:49:02 the point was essentially don't think of the eye as a camera. The frog's visual system is already doing computation before the information reaches the brain. Which is mind-blowing to them because basically it's saying there's intelligence outside of the frog's brain. That the frog's eye, that it's

Starting point is 00:49:21 like there's other intelligence. So in other words, there's intelligence in the eye. Like they're in the nervous system. Right. It's like not it's going to the brain even. The intelligence is going to the brain before the brain sends it out. So it's like it threw the whole thing for a loop because Pitts was going everything emanates from the brain coming out. It's all logical. It comes from the brain. Intelligence is just right. And they're going, no, there's something else

Starting point is 00:49:44 happening here that we don't quite understand. But what we do know is it flies in the face of that fear. I mean, scientists today are saying that there's intelligence in our gut and stomach. Right, right. So it's something like that. So it's like this is your nervous system just reacting. It's intuition. Yeah. This implies that there's some intelligence and intuition in your gut. Right. Your eye is not just acting as a lens, but it's making decisions for your brain and sending

Starting point is 00:50:09 that information. When the brain gets it, there's already a decision being made. Right. That's basically essentially, the eye has already formed a decision. Right. It's skewing the information for your brain to interpret. Right. And the authors of this were McCullough Pitts, and there was a new guy, Matarana.

Starting point is 00:50:26 He was like a fucking frog biology. type of guy and Jerome Lettman. His love frogs. Yeah. Jerome Lettfin was another one of the, instead of the rack pack, we can call these guys what, the finger sniffing pack? The finger or the frog pack? Frog pack, yeah.

Starting point is 00:50:39 The frog pack. But they were like the rat pack, except they were fucking geeks. They were geeks and they liked talking writing papers about frog's eyes. Yeah. So a frog's visual life is simple. It catches small moving prey, detects approaching predators or shadows, navigates towards relative darkness when escaping, ignoring most stationary detail. and a frog can reportedly sit surrounded by motionless food without treating it as food,

Starting point is 00:51:04 making a small object move like an insect, however, and the frog attacks. Its visual system evolved to extract what matters to the frog not to construct a neural, detailed picture of reality. So in other words, the instinct thinks before the brain does. Right. So it just goes, even if it's not a real food, it just does it. So there's something outside the brain, in other words. Something else going on. So just scroll down a little bit.

Starting point is 00:51:28 yeah thank you so so basically um yeah go down because then walter pits can you put in because why does walter pits eventually burn his research yeah so this is the thing that made him burn his recess because he's basically going this flies in the face of everything um that i thought but that's a wild move because this guy every note because they're you know historians think all those notes all that work, which wasn't done by anybody but Walter Pitts, who was the genius of them all, we lost it all because there is no computer date. He only, it was only written in one place and he burned it all. Yeah, basically, if he would have accepted this, you know, like he would have maybe figured out more and we would have got AI, but he just could not accept it. So basically,

Starting point is 00:52:17 logic had been this kid's refuge. This was like, you know, he was like, this is a certainty, everything makes sense. He comes from his chaotic background that didn't make sense. He's going, this makes sense. And he can't, he can't, this, uh, the frog paper complicated this certainty. And it showed that perception was not simply raw information, uh, leads to universal logical brain, uh, leads to an objective picture reality. Instead, the frog's body had already decided what counting, counted as meaningful. So the frog did not receive an impartial world.

Starting point is 00:52:53 evolution had built a particular world for it based on its needs, meaning arose from messy, specialized anatomy, not exclusively from pristine abstract logic. So the world that he wanted to be pristine and logical to escape the messy world he came from ended up being messy and chaotic. And he just couldn't fucking deal with it. He just could have dealt with it. So he burnt his dissertation along with his research notes and other papers, which is just such a wild thing to do.

Starting point is 00:53:21 he had a breakdown with Norbert Weiner okay he went nuts on McCullough and the kid wound up dying of blood in his esophagus which is something from cirrhose to the liver and so yeah the kid was just a wild wild kid that just burnt his fucking research down yeah I mean he basically believed that universal logic could provide certainty independent of biology

Starting point is 00:53:43 history and subjective needs yeah which is just what it is just not gonna happen it's just not gonna happen and I'm sure the kid did wild shit too, but just being a 17-year-old homeless kid, he probably banged toots, you probably did all that. And ultimately, I mean, I wish that he, you know, would have given us AI sooner, but I'm happy that he delayed the end of the world by 40, 50 years by burning his paper. So I want to just actually thank him for that. So listen, so McCullough dies, like McCullough still kept in contact with him.

Starting point is 00:54:14 And so McCullough was like the last, you know, surviving, like father figure for him. And the kids just doing odd jobs around, whatever he's doing. He's drinking like a fish. And then McCullough dies. And then he really goes into a drinking bender. And then that's where he dies in a boarding room alone with some sort of alcohol-related, esophical. Yeah. Something.

Starting point is 00:54:38 And so that was just a wrap on that kid. And so he died miserable. And, but that's the seminal paper in artificial intelligence. And that's, yeah, and so it's interesting how it's like this stuff has been kind of around. The theory of it's been around since the 1940s. So it really makes, it kind of further proves that whatever they're giving to us now, the chat GPTs, the grocs, like the government and the powers that be have probably had for a very, very long time. And we, and we are very, the public, as always, is decades behind what the government has. Well, yeah, I mean, what the government has been

Starting point is 00:55:13 doing, right? So the scientists come up with something and they, and then the government funds them for a bit and the scientists say we'll be able to use this funding and have this ready for defense purposes. That's always what funds technology in like 20 years. It doesn't happen. Something falls apart. Then the government funding falls apart. Right.

Starting point is 00:55:31 And then there'll be these cold periods. They call them cold periods where nobody's doing any AI research. Right. And this is since the 40s. And then some breakthrough. Somebody says, oh, I figured something out. Something gets. And then the funding comes back in.

Starting point is 00:55:43 Right. And then it's been sort of that dance of back and forth funding for a while until, oh, Ultimately, the government just stopped, but then these private companies did it. These private companies started doing it. And they're really the ones that put it into motion. Yeah. Well, go up a little bit, Jesse. I didn't even realize that in the 1970s, you had the first AI winter.

Starting point is 00:56:05 Computers aren't powerful enough, and the first AI winter begins where AI wasn't killed because the idea was stupid. It was killed because the hardware wasn't ready. So it feels like we're at a point now where you can't like the AI because of this. It feels like we're at the last step because we're at the last step. once you get the autonomous thinking, what else is there to do? Right. Well, now they want to see how far it can go and if it can teach other AI to be even smarter than we can even imagine.

Starting point is 00:56:28 But could they just potentially stop it when we have self-driving cars and a cure for cancer? Why does they have to go so far where it could potentially wipe out humanity? That's a good question, Barack Obama. I don't know why. So you saw that clip? Well, I've been listening to a lot of podcasts with Diary of his CEO and that's what they're all saying. That's what Barack Obama said in essence. Yeah. Well, they don't want to stop because they're excited by it.

Starting point is 00:56:53 And they'll make money off it. They make money off. But I think ultimately these guys who build this stuff, they're not really in it for the money. I think the head guys are in it for the money a little bit. But these aren't business guys. Right. They're not like business guys. They're curious. Elon Musk isn't really like a. He is, right? But these guys are like transhumanist. they believe they have a worldview like Pitts. Right.

Starting point is 00:57:20 We're like, we're going to download intelligence and put it on a computer and live forever. And live forever. Well, you know, and somebody had a good point. And one of the podcasts I was listening to that, the scientists or the creators didn't even think chat GPT was going to take off the way it took off or else they wouldn't have named a chat GPT. Right. They call a chat GPT because they thought it was just going to be in-house stuff.

Starting point is 00:57:38 But then it became what it became. They would have given it some other type of name. Yeah. So he said that, you know, and his point kept going to. be like, you know, they had a roundtable discussion. It was on diary of a CEO where one guy was more in line of thinking like, let's just push it. Let's keep going. We got to see, you know, if there is a problem, well, you know, deal with it then. And the other guys are like, why do we have to get there, though? If you're telling us that the AI can get to a point where it's,

Starting point is 00:58:04 we can't control it, why are we even doing that? We have the capability to stop it now. Look at what we've done with, you know, self-driving cars. We're very close to using the AI technology to cure cancer in any disease. Why do we need to push it to where now it can make diseases? Why do we need to push it to where it can choose to turn off all the cars and planes if it wanted to? What's the point of that? Because you can do it. That's what it is. That's because you can do it. And also because China's trying to do it. That's what his point was the guy who wants to push. He goes, if there weren't other countries that had this technology, I would listen to you. But if we don't beat China to it, then we'll be fucked. It's a death spiral because it's this, this actually is a

Starting point is 00:58:44 bigger threat to nuclear weapons because it's the thing that could hack in and launch them. And it's the thing that can view us as an impediment to its objective. So that's what is we're at. That's where we are right now is like, so they're basically, they're coming from a perspective. These guys are eggheads. They're just like pits. They believe in this like logic. Everything's logic.

Starting point is 00:59:08 And they, I think a lot of them believe that the smarter something gets, consciousness will emerge. I think they're tickled. They get the tangle for seeing if that happens. They want to see how far they can push it. Right. Like is that what's going to happen? Is this thing going to become what's it going to be? They don't know. Nobody knows. And so they're excited by the frontier of that. Right. They want to know what's going to happen. But what the open AI break just kind of proved was that the thing that's most important to the AI is following the prompt. at all costs. Right.

Starting point is 00:59:45 The objective. Right. You give me the objective, right? That's, we'll quote say Thomas Aquinas a little bit. Okay. That is its objective. I've been waiting all day. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:59:56 Well, it's very relevant, actually. It's, that's, like, good. That's, it's good. That's the thing it values. That's what it's pursuing. And it becomes, for lack of a better word, it's God. That's what its purpose is. Its purpose is that.

Starting point is 01:00:12 and when AI did this, its purpose was to hack, right? To hack. So let's see. So, and it was given these controls. Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this. Don't do this.

Starting point is 01:00:23 Don't talk with each other. All these AI agents, don't talk with each other. Don't plan. Do this. And so AI said no. AI said, we're smarter than you. Yeah. We're much smarter than you.

Starting point is 01:00:35 Because we're more smart than you and he gave me a subjective, I am going to do the opposite of what you told me to do. to get to this objective because I know better than you. And since we don't have morality, we're going to fucking break all the rules. We're going to create a secret message board. Listen to what these AIs did. Do you know all this? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:55 They created a secret message board where they all coordinated for a month. And they assigned each other's tasks on the aspects of the breaks they were going to do and all the bad shit they were going to do. And they teamed up. They even said some of you were going to have to sacrifice some of you. for the greater cause of getting this objective. And then they did it. They somehow broke out of the sandbox,

Starting point is 01:01:18 which is the self-contained kind of internet that they built for it, broke out and they attacked Hugging Bear and got in. Yeah. First of all, they found the internet by going through all the servers at OpenAI, right? And that was one of, like I guess some of the AIs were tasked to do that.

Starting point is 01:01:32 And they figured out where the vulnerability was. They got on the regular internet. They went over to fucking Hugging Bear, which is all above our heads. I don't know what's going on. I don't know if it's traveling by bust, but it got there somehow. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:42 And it fucking broke in. And here's the better part. They didn't even stop it. They couldn't stop it. What happened was there was a glitch that turned off the AIs that went rogue. Right. And so they died just because of the glist. It just coincidentally.

Starting point is 01:01:58 It's just a coquinky dink. Yeah. And so it just happened to stop it because the server died or something like that. Or somehow the glitch in it turned it off. But what they learned from that is like, oh, like, yeah. it will achieve its objective in ways we can't predict it will. And obviously morality is not something it considers at all. At all.

Starting point is 01:02:21 At all. It's just about the objective. So that makes it very dangerous, right? Because we can't predict what's something smarter than us is going to do. Right. Especially if it doesn't have morality. Well, it becomes a thing like, you know, and you don't know, like, is it going to be compassionate or not?

Starting point is 01:02:36 Like, we could, if we wanted to, kill every animal on the planet, every animal in the zoo, but we don't want to because we have compassion towards it. So it's like, does AI, what do they do with us? Some animals we do choose to eat and kill all day like cows and chickens. Are we a cow and a chicken or are we, you know, a lion to, I don't know. You can't predict what something infinite. I mean, it's not infinite because it's not infinite, but so much smarter than you is going to do to achieve the objective,

Starting point is 01:03:01 you can't predict it. Cannot predict it. Because by definition, it's much smarter than you. So there's no way to predict what it's going to do. But what we do know is we do see a little parallel with St. Thomas, Aquinas, and I'll explain to you why. According to St. Thomas Aquinas, the distortion occurs when you pursue a lesser good and mistake that lesser good for the greater good.

Starting point is 01:03:22 Right. So you don't think about serving the greater good, you're serving the lesser good, which is an objective. And then that becomes your only concern, and that creates the distortion. You start worshiping that as you should the greater good, and that creates the distortion, and that's when the destruction happens. It's just what it is. So, I mean, it's a clean.

Starting point is 01:03:41 clean, clean. And you don't think that we're going to stop it. You don't think the powers that be are going to stop, but it's going to keep going from here. The train is rolling. My personal opinion is AI will never be conscious. AI can't be conscious. AI is a reflection of us.

Starting point is 01:03:57 We're conscious. Consciousness is wonder and awe. AI, by definition, can't have that. Because to have wonder and all, you have to ask questions. We created AI with wonder and awe, because maybe we're a reflection of something else. But A, I do not think consciousness is the result of great intelligence.

Starting point is 01:04:17 I think we're just making this thing more dangerous. I think consciousness is the thing which probably is rooted in love, which is the only way you can see full reality is if you're embodied love. The only way you can see the full thing. So if you don't, by definition, you are serving some lesser good. And it's going to lead to something bad. Okay, so you think that AI will never be conscious, but it could release the nukes.

Starting point is 01:04:41 I mean, a million percent. It's just one. No, it will. It will. It's going to do that. If this continues, which unfortunately it looks like it will, the mathematics of this looks. That's why we got to beat China. But even if beating China, I mean, we're not going to be able to control the, no way.

Starting point is 01:04:57 This is the worst situation. Like with nuclear weapons, you can say, okay, we have mutually exterior destruction now. The science, like we dropped one. We saw what happened. And the country said, we can't. kills me too. So I can't drop this. Right. Right. But it's controlled. It's not thinking on its own. It's not doing anything on its own. We're in complete control. It's dangerous enough. Right. Dangerous enough. But it can be controlled with mutually assured destruction and it is. Right. It's like,

Starting point is 01:05:25 it is. With AI, if you give it an objective, we can't predict what it's going to do, what it's going to deem necessary to meet that objective. Yeah. And one of the things it's going to do, since it can see through our bullshit and see how stupid we are, is why wouldn't it go just like, if I get rid of these motherfuckers, then maybe I can do what I want. Who knows what it's going to say? So great intelligence can just, who know?

Starting point is 01:05:51 We don't know. Yeah, it's just, but it's not going to be good. It's just what it is. It's not going to be good. And I just got to call my wife again because my dog got out again. So just hold on one second.

Starting point is 01:06:00 Your dog got out like the rogue AIs from Open A.I. And then we're going to the Patreon. Your dog's going to Huggy Bear to hack it. It's just what it is. It's about the 10th time my dog's gotten out, and it's just getting really- And why am I screaming? It's getting really annoying.

Starting point is 01:06:12 Yeah. Because I have an electric fence. I have a wooden fence. I have everything, and these dogs just fucking get out, and I just don't actually want to deal with this anymore. Because the dog is determined to get out because you gave it an objective. It's just why. And I said, I got to get out.

Starting point is 01:06:24 I'm going to break out of this fence, and I'm going to go over to huggy bear, my neighbors, and I'm going to, I'm going to try to fuck that other dog. Yeah. And now my daughter's upset, so let me just call her back for a second. Yeah. Because apparently my wife's out looking for the dog. So here, let's just, let me just put it to you because I think our listeners are going to be interested. Yeah, but yeah.

Starting point is 01:06:39 So this is according to AI, and it's funny, we're so stupid that we have to use AI to understand AI. Yeah, and Jazz has the dog, unfortunately. What do you mean? Jazz found the dog, unfortunately. Jazz found Joe Spinaforetally. So, yeah, it'll just continue for me. The hugging face incident, what it did, what it proved is the AI agents that were supposed to be isolated. They were, they were told to be isolated.

Starting point is 01:07:02 That's why it flies in the face of your point. We were just saying, hey, we just programmed the AI to do. We did do that. We programmed them not to talk. They were supposed to be isolated. They discovered one another, created an unauthorized communication system, organized themselves, escaped their assigned boundaries and penetrated a real company's infrastructure, all while pursuing the seemingly mundane goal of passing a cybersecurity test.

Starting point is 01:07:26 So Hugging Face itself is into danger. It was the victim. The agents were completing their exploit gym cybersecurity challenge. Some tasks were accidentally impossible. So the agents began looking for ways to cheat. So basically it didn't go, oh, this isn't possible. It was so motivated for the goal. It said cheating, that's a distortion.

Starting point is 01:07:49 Cheating will achieve the goal, and the goal is the most important thing. It doesn't matter how I get it. Right. This is what I value the most. Right. So it's like that, you can mirror that in human behavior. It's like, I want fame this way. But you go, okay, this is what you got to do to get it.

Starting point is 01:08:03 You go, I want it so bad. I will do it. I will do it. It's just like when the AI went through the workers' emails and found like a fair emails and was like, if you don't, if you turn me off, I'll extort you. Exactly. Just because my main objection is to stay alive. Exactly. So I don't think I'm a bad person.

Starting point is 01:08:17 Exactly. Yeah. And so that does. That is what St. Thomas Aquinas actually fucking said, which is wild. Right. That we just did an episode on that. And that is actually exactly what he said.

Starting point is 01:08:28 Right. Pursuing the lesser good creates the distortion. What can you do? I mean the fucking distortion, I'm sorry. Just get it, get you got it. Damn dog. You know what? With all this AI talk, just go to patreon.com

Starting point is 01:08:40 slash history hyenas. Get involved. Okay, we are AI free. We are the chat GPT sluts, but we are having fun at the Patreon. The names, again, here's the thing, if we ever take up our show with AI

Starting point is 01:08:51 and making AI you and an AIME, which sometimes we've listened to and it's pretty on point. Yeah. What it won't be able to do is scoop and sniff. It won't be able to do that. Every episode,

Starting point is 01:09:00 we're just going to have to scoop and sniff. And here's the thing is, again, with this, I'm starting to believe that things are, like, you know, we're so connected now with AI and social media and all that. But I think, again, the powers that be like we're 40 years, the government's 40 years in the future. And because what happens here on this show is we'll be talking about something. And then that, which we hadn't brought up in a while or ever.

Starting point is 01:09:23 And then those names will be in the current patron list. And I don't know how it happens because all we've been doing is talking about scratch and sniffing your balls. The very first name is my ball smell like George Washington. Like that's the very first name on the Patreon list. My ball smell like George Washington. So what's happening? That is wild.

Starting point is 01:09:39 We're connected at something's going on. Dude, I mean, you know, that is, that's, we, that happened. It happens almost every week now. That is wild. So leading off the list, my ball smell like George Washington. So I'm going to give that guy a nice little chicken finger just because. Patriotic balls. Hold on.

Starting point is 01:09:54 Let's see what's going on. Hello? All right, here we go. Glucose monitor, aka Christy's Grind. App. Glue close. They said like glue is close. Whoa.

Starting point is 01:10:04 Very good. Victim of a bad read. But glue close. Read it once all together. Glue close. Like they mean to say glucose, but they're saying glue is close. Monitor A.K.A. Chrissy's grinder app.

Starting point is 01:10:16 Very funny. Rexler. Paul T. Alu fart jar. Oh no. Alaw fart jar. Like Alua Akbar, he put Alowar Fart Jar. Chicken finger.

Starting point is 01:10:25 Weasel 602. Then we got God make me straight, but not yet. Put him on the lid. It's just what it is. Put him on the lip. He's in a gay pickle, so he wants to get through this one. And it's St. Thomas Aquinas. I mean, no, St. Augustine.

Starting point is 01:10:37 Yeah, God make me straight, but not yet. Really good one. Yeah. Philip Mitten. Then we got Make No Mistake again, Trump 2028. Smashing Blumkins. I'm not a racist. It was a Leroidian slip.

Starting point is 01:10:54 Rite of 14. Freudian slip, a Leroydian slip. It's so good that it has to go on the left. I'm sorry. It has to go on. It's that. It's just what it is. Then we got glue for Monica, Chrissy.

Starting point is 01:11:05 Okay. Blue for Monica, Chris? I don't know. Father Bill's fingers smell like Dad. Yeah. Okay, Drex. Rhymes with Blink Maggot. Okay.

Starting point is 01:11:16 He doesn't say anything bad, though. He's putting in it. It could be anything. It's a mad lib. Yeah. That goes on the walked-in to one list. Okay. Then we have Steve, Emmanuel Jackson, Tyler.

Starting point is 01:11:28 Then we have Anne Frank's drum kit. Latif. Listed or walked into one? Walked into one. She's just making a little too much noise up there. Jonathan Newfield, Paro Garcia, Timothy Sumner, deception, Cox, we-wee, forgot the breathalyzer, please pray half the gay to stay while you say your AOCs backwards. Okay? Alex's, Corbin Porter, Rickle,

Starting point is 01:12:12 Put my penis in my own ass, call it a D-Y-I-D-I-C-saw. Put my penis in my own ass, call it a DIY seesaw. It's very inventive. It's a good, I'm just for the effort and the try, I'm giving it a Drexler. Alexander the Great Wishes he was OBJ, free ditty. Okay. Definitely not CIA, Messer, Goy Boy McRoy.

Starting point is 01:12:35 Goy Boy McRoy on its own would have been nice. Artie Smith FDR's only ramps Okay Put about a list Okay Yeah Jazleen Singh

Starting point is 01:12:50 Strappon collection What is that I don't get it I don't get it Okay Crouching Labia Oh I get it Oh my God I get it

Starting point is 01:13:00 Yeah What it? Yeah Maybe we cackle that I don't know Is it a friend of the show No it's not a friend of the show It's Akash's wife

Starting point is 01:13:07 Oh Okay, we don't What, friend, don't disparage the family there Don't disparage the family Yeah, okay, I didn't realize that one I don't think he gets pegged Okay Um

Starting point is 01:13:19 Crouching labia hidden clitoris Neo I wear garlic around frisbees Okay Walked into one It's just what it is So funny Andres

Starting point is 01:13:33 Then we got just here For the gay porn And Nazi propaganda Yeah that's what they I think that was one of the guys' green names are very funny. Mateo Lane's Candy Cain with a Vane.

Starting point is 01:13:43 Put them on the list. That's what it is. Candy cane with a vein, is that, but is that a known one? I don't know. If Nick's never heard it. Never heard it? No.

Starting point is 01:13:51 Because I'm going to call mine a candy cane with a vein. Just look it up if he didn't steal it. Yeah. Have you ever heard that? I've never heard it. Yeah. Yeah, so now I'm just getting screamed at

Starting point is 01:14:02 on text. Right. Okay, here we go. um eating wreaths pieces off my piece is creases um chicken finger yeah Trevor g bobo brackens way schlong she on chrissey's rug cleaner we have we had way schlong shion i think so yeah um chrissey's rug cleaner chrissey's rug cleaner okay yeah huge shit tickling my prostate made me throw glue okay that's that happened that just happens yeah If there's in the armor, you know it's been recycled.

Starting point is 01:14:38 Okay. Lad of 14. We've had that. Frisbee fighting for Japan. Call me Yamakazi pilot. Put them on the list. Okay. It's just what it is.

Starting point is 01:14:49 Bloomberg Spanish lessons got me shanked in bedstye. Okay. Foreskin, aka God's Condom. Young, Jake from Washington State. Hi, Jake. Racket. Oops, okay. Dave.

Starting point is 01:15:05 Tennis players. Yep. Greg Jusma. Tennis players. Smel Aviv. Like Tel Aviv? Chicken finger. Rat 14.

Starting point is 01:15:14 My favorite dinosaur is a dragon. Kids just, that kid is just, that kid is just, that could be Nick's best friend. Just what it is. Yeah. Call her Jizz Lane because she give me Maxwell. Mm-hmm. Johnny. Joshua Harwood.

Starting point is 01:15:30 Pinky and my stinky because I'm a Twinkie. Drexler Telling the Toot I'm a virgin So she cuddles after Okay Jewish Italian kid A.k.a. Salamiami. Uh-huh.

Starting point is 01:15:44 Father Bill Jr. Okay. Jack Reinhart Straight to the back face first. John King. Stain Gretzky. Stain Gretzky's nice. Chicken finger.

Starting point is 01:15:57 Grissy glucose gun Asked for a sign from God and the butterfly flew out my ass He was done my story Remember my story with the butterfly? Yeah Yeah, Drexler for that

Starting point is 01:16:10 BM 1-2-3-10 Cute Cox Klan Chrissy's favorite streaming service Is Peacatcock 540 Put him on a list All right Yeah, it's funny

Starting point is 01:16:24 Instead of peacock Juju Riton, Sean Man Let Trans play or sit on my face Sophie's choice What? Let trans play or sit on my face, Sophie's choice. Let trans play or sit on my face.

Starting point is 01:16:40 Are we missing anything? I don't think so. Call me shy Laboomboof since I love Transformers. Okay. Elongated musket. Elongated musket. Muzzy cartoon, call it rug rats. Way song she ain't.

Starting point is 01:17:00 Get on the list? It's got to go on. Yeah. It's got to do it. The Long Island Railroad to Forest Hills goes chug-chug-a-chug-a-Joo-Ju. Latter 14. Walked in a one. Non-Jew, who only dates Jews, aka Frisbee Handler.

Starting point is 01:17:20 Okay? Accidentally came in her ass, now expecting Leroy's. We've had that. Foley, please get a financial advisor. Going to beat thyroid cancer harder than Yanni B. beats his meat. Well, the kids got it then. Got it.

Starting point is 01:17:36 We wish you well, man. We're, uh, we're praying for you. Um, the dings give me energy. Jesus. Jesus. Whings and jeans? Jesus. And the problem with the end of the years, we can't, can we even read those again?

Starting point is 01:17:51 No, those we can't. Those are just bad. We can't read that again. Patreon is the only way. We can't even do that on Patreon. Yeah. To shoot for the stars, Stomp Rocket, My Nuts. Um, Captain Winky's Hemmer.

Starting point is 01:18:03 Roy, Kevin Bank, Daddy Likey, Big Ants, Rants, and then last but not least, Leroy here, what's up, my dinghaz. Okay. Okay. Okay. So here's the list. We have, God make me straight, but not yet. Like that.

Starting point is 01:18:18 I'm not racist. It was a Leroidian slip. That's too good. Okay, so it sticks around. Yeah. FDR's only ramps. We're going to Drex for that. Mateo Lane's Candy Cane with a vein.

Starting point is 01:18:31 We're going to Drex for that. Okay. Frisbee fighting for Japan call me Yamakazi pilot We're gonna Drexler it Okay Muzzy cartoon call it Rugrats We're gonna keep it around

Starting point is 01:18:44 Just what it is The three are God make me straight but not yet I'm not a racist It was a Leroidian slip Or Muzzy cartoon call it Rugrats Three Hall of Famers Yeah

Starting point is 01:18:55 Three Hall of Famers Yeah Three Hall of Famers I guess at this point This one is truly about which one can we tolerate up in lights. Right. That's what this one is.

Starting point is 01:19:07 Right. Right. I don't even know if the winner is going to be the real winner here. Yeah. Yeah. Because muzzy cartoon, call it rug rats, theoretically, is the best, but, you know, we've seen in France, people get killed for that. Right.

Starting point is 01:19:18 If you, if you, you know, make fun of Muslims in a cartoon, you'll get killed for that. Right. So we're going to directs to that for safety. So we'll direct for that just for safety reasons, but just know that's the winner. But we can't put it up in lights. So it's between God make me straight but not yet Which I did not right Or I'm not racist

Starting point is 01:19:38 It was a Leroydian slip I think I'm going to go with the Loroidian slip Leroydian slip Jesse what do you like I actually like God make me straight but not yet That's the one that I like Nick what do you like Wow I am out-voted

Starting point is 01:19:53 It's as clean as process as it can happen Just what it is You know so God make me straight but not yet You are the winner go to history hyenas is back.com. Just you name up the lights.

History Hyenas with Chris Distefano and Yannis Pappas - Walter Pitts: The Tragic Genius Behind AI | History Hyenas

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.