Hodgetwins Podcast - FBI's Most Wanted CON ARTIST Tells ALL! | Twins Pod - Episode 64 - Matthew Cox

Episode Date: May 9, 2025

Matthew Cox's life needs to be made into a movie, y'all. The frauds, scams, and cons he was running are crazier than the stuff you'd see in The Wolf of Wall Street. Making fake identities, creating fake businesses, and even fake banks, Matt was reckless! He tells his whole story and how it all came crashing down when the feds finally caught up with him. Crazy as hell!Become a Member and Give Us Some DAMN GOOD Support :https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX8lCshQmMN0dUc0JmQYDdg/joinGet your Twins merch and have a chance to win our RAW Diesel SuperTruck & 10K in cash - https://officialhodgetwins.com/Get Optimal Human, your all in one daily nutritional supplement - https://optimalhuman.com/Want to be a guest on the Twins Pod? Contact us at [e-mail] video was conducted on behalf of Giant Mining Corp, and was funded by Gold Standard Media LLC and/or affiliates. For our full disclaimer, please visit: https://portal.goldstandardir.com/disclaimer/BFGFF-366https://giantminingcorp.com/CSE: BFG I OTC: BFGFFDownload Free Twins Pod Content - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_iNb2RYwHUisypEjkrbZ3nFoBK8k60COFollow Twins Pod Everywhere -X - https://twitter.com/TheTwinsPodInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetwinspod/Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/twinspodTikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@twinspodYouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX8lCshQmMN0dUc0JmQYDdgRumble - https://rumble.com/c/TwinsPodSpotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/79BWPxHPWnijyl4lf8vWVu?si=03960b3a8b6b4f74Apple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/twins-pod/id173123281002:47 - How He Became a Fraudster12:03 - He Went To The Next level Of Crime26:19 - Living The Life Of A Con Man is Crazy31:09 - He Was Afraid of Jail38:00 - He Had To Change His Life Several Times44:35 - Why Is There Not A Movie About His Life Story?1:02:51 - Can't Trust a H**1:05:36 - The Finally Got Him...1:15:12 - Trusting Your Intuition1:21:26 - He Was Locked Up For 13 Years1:35:14 - Snitching Can Help You Get Out Earlier...1:50:13 - Latisha James & Trump2:02:21 - Would He Do It Again?2:10:48 - He's Turned His Life Around

We got Matthew Cox in the house. One of the biggest criminals of all the time. I start my own company. I hire like 12 guys. We're running a mill. I think the FBI said that we did like 40 million in fraud or something, but the truth is probably way more. But that's the number they gave.

I'm already a felon. And then everybody looks at me like I'm a scumbag. So I might as well behave like a scumbat. You either need a straw man. Somebody who can qualify for the loan will give you the money. But then I'm going to split the money with them. And I want to split the money with this guy. So what I do is I,

I figure out how to get social security to issue social security numbers to children that don't exist. I make a fake birth certificate. I get a seal. I get the paper. Like Obama did, huh? Okay.

I'm just joking. You said that. You're going to get me banned, bro. And I can go open bank accounts, do whatever I want. I can buy a house and that's what I do. I start manufacturing these synthetic identities. This is too funny, man.

Oh, listen, this is nothing. Yeah. This is nothing. This is the tip of the iceberg. Like, listen, I start making fake bank accounts, fake banks. This is horrible, too, by the way. You guys are making me feel that. I never feel bad about it.

You're laughing more than I do. It's very interesting, man. It's like, you've got balls of steel here. I felt invincible. There's no feeling in the world walking into a bank, providing them all false identities, like all false documents, fake this, fake this, fake W2s, base dubs, ID, everything, have them issue you a check for $250,000

and then thank you for ripping them off. And then you walk out of the bank. Like you feel like James Bond. Right. I know you guys at this point have been like, this is one unemotional psycho. Right? Yeah.

If you had to do it all over again, would you do it? I'm going to answer this and a hope that I don't tear up. Yeah. Welcome to episode 64. Yeah. We got Matthew Cox in the house. one of the biggest criminals of all time.

What's up, Matthew? What's going on? Yeah, pretty good. Hey, give us a backtrack, y'all. Tell us a little bit about yourself, your story. Yeah, what you do now. Tell us about your accolades. You want the five-minute version or the ten-minute?

Yeah, you give it a ten-minute version. Okay. We got about an hour and a half. So, yeah. Well, listen, I got a five-minute. I got a 30. I got an hour. I got a two-hour.

I got a six-hour. I did six-and-a-half hours with Lex Friedman. I couldn't believe I'd talk that long. I'm a talker, but still, even I was like, damn, that was, you're a gangster. Yeah, that was an damn interrogation. Yeah. And the short version is, you know, I was born in Tampa, Florida. I had a learning disability.

My father was an alcoholic, but super successful. What was your learning disability? Dyslexia. Oh, really? I went to school for dyslexia. I mean, for a learned, went to learning disability schools my whole life. My daughter has that. Okay.

And I try to get it explaining. She can't really, I'm just like, do you see shit backwards or do you, what is it? No, you just don't, you formulate, you look at a word and it's like a symbol to you. You automatically see it. She's probably seeing each letter. So she has to kind of sound it out. So it just never comes together. So I read like I'm in the third grade.

Oh, wow. So even to this day, and listen, I've written like eight books. I've written 24 or 24, 24, or 24, 17. synopsies of stories. I've written eight books. I just, I read horribly. And if I have to read out loud, it's embarrassing. Really? I would have never known that despite listening to how you talk. I've heard people that's illiterate and they sound like some dumb, you sound like a very intelligent. You sound like a very illiterate. But you went to the extreme there. I mean, I just read badly. I'm, you know, I can write, I've written books. So anyway, so, so basically I end up graduating high school

I go to college. I get a degree in fine arts, which is pretty much useless. But it's a degree I could get. Right. So I go to work for, I got to work for some, whatever,

I go to work from some insurance companies, whatever. I can't keep up with the workload, bro. It's just too much for me. What type of, what did you do in insurance? Was an insurance adjuster? Like,

I got my 220 insurance license. No shit. What is insurance insurance? Okay. Yeah. In Florida, there's like two licenses you can get. I got those licenses.

Property and Calged. Right. Got the license. It ended up being just an adjuster and very quickly just couldn't keep up. You know? Jobs sucked. It did. It's a horrible job. Oh, my God. We did auto claims. You would go in on Monday? Oh, my God. I did auto claims for six months and then I worked workman's comp and then eventually thank God they lost the account and had let me go. At some point, you guys are going to figure out. I don't know what I'm doing. I can't keep up.

I mean, so, so I, so anyway, the girl, this chick I was dating, this is whole. She was a stripper that was stripping her way through college, but really was stripping her way through college. She actually got a degree in finance. Oh, wow. And she went to work for a mortgage company, and she's like, you've got to come do this. You'd be great at this. I was like, I barely, I can't balance my checkbook. She's like, no, it's not about that.

It's just kind of being a salesman. I was like, okay. So I go there and very quickly, I'm closing loans. I mean, I've got people. I'm very good with people. I put the deals together. The first loan I had had fraud in it. You know, go into my, go into my, my, my, my, uh,

manager's office. She looks through the whole thing. And there was one document that had a 30 day late on it. So if you're 30 days late on your rent, you're not getting a loan. Right. So, and she kind of puts it to the side and says, and she closes up. She says, this looks great. I'm like, okay. Well, what's up with that? And she's like, 30 days late. And I'm like, well, oh, man, I thought, man, that's it. I'm done. And keep mind, I'm behind, like, I'm a couple payments behind on my car payment. Like, I'm behind on my mortgage. Like, I'm like, I banked on making this work. So anyway, she's, I'm like, what? What do I do knowing there's nothing I can do? In my mind, she pulled out, white out.

If I was you, I'd wipe this out. Make a copy, stick it in the file, they'll never catch it. And I'm like, well, that's fraud. And she's like, nobody's going to get arrested. Like if they catch it, they'll fire you at most. And I was thinking myself, okay, well. This was a kick, right? This is, yeah, of course.

This is my manager. They're my manager. So I do it. I trusted her. I whited out. and put it in there and sweat bullets for three or four days. And then underwriting comes back and says, you're ready to close.

And a couple days later, we close. And I get a check for $3,500. 20 years ago, $3,500. That's a lot of money. That's like $10,000. I was like, oh, my God. Caught up all my bills. Next person comes in.

They've got a W2 for $45,000. But if they made $50, they could get the loan. A little white out, a little bit. It goes through, sweat bullets. Boom, another check. Next guy, another check. Pretty much you walk. you walked in there with a pulse, you're getting alone.

Like, I'm getting creative. Okay. So the fine arts degree worked out. Right, right, exactly. And that company ends up getting closed, not my fault. Right. They close. And I end up going and starting my own company.

But by this point, the chick that got me, now she's banging the manager. Actually, the owner, he leaves his wife. They get married. Really? Yeah, they get married. They have a couple kids. and they to this day are still married. Wow.

Which is funny. So two wrongs do, Michael, right? Well, you know what it always makes me think of? Like, it's kind of like in her view of that story, it's romantic, right? She met a rich guy. He was married. He was married her. They have kids.

You know, in my version, she's a whore. Women would think that's romantic. From my point of view, you're a whore. You know what I'm saying? Both are true, but both are true, though. Right, right. So anyway, I start my own company. I hire like 12 guys.

We're running a mill. I think the FBI said that we did like 40 million in fraud or something. But who knows? 40 million. Honestly, I always say like, they can't prove that. But the truth is probably way more. But that's the number they gave. And at the time, I was like, what?

That's crazy. But more I think about it, I'm like, no, this is higher. But anyway, so I'm running that. It's doing great. So the quick version is I'm running that company. It's doing well. it's all fraud related. Like I always love guys who want to hire me to be like a consultant.

Like every business I've ever done ever been involved in that was successful was based on fraud. So my first word of advice is don't hire someone like me to help you run your business. It's a bad idea. We're not taking your money. Yeah. Because I've already been in jail. So anyway, what happens is we're running a mill. One of my brokers starts her own place.

She ends up running something called a straw man scam with some some guys. and that's where you like, you know a straw man's game is? No, okay. It's when, and there's many versions. You can do it with cars, you do it with whatever, where you have somebody,

let's say a house will appraise at $300,000. Okay. So, and you're selling, but you're, you're only selling it for $200. Appraisals are questionable, right? So the house will appraise

because other houses in the area are selling for $300, but you only want $200. So for whatever reason, you know, maybe the comparables are just nicer houses. You'll never get $300,000. thousand, but they know they can get an appraisal for 300. So they come in and they say, look,

we're going to buy it from you for 300 and you'll kick us back $100,000. The problem is these guys are doing it for like a million dollars. We can get it to appraise at a million. The guy selling it for 700,000 kick us back 300 grand. And they buy four or five houses. They don't make any payments. They all go under. It's like half a million dollars is lost. And the FBI comes in and they're asking them questions. And she says, you know, I can I know some you think this is bad I know a guy so she wears a wire she and her husband wear a wire on me they get me to come to to lunch and well and it was even funny about that is I refinanced their house got them 75,000 so that they could hire a criminal defense attorney and the first thing he said is you need

to wear a wire on this guy like he got you 75 grand just like that yeah that's your guy right that's your get out of jail free card so um they wear a wire I bury myself you know they're like um you know The FBI is asking questions about you. I'm like, you didn't tell him the W-2s are fake, did you? You didn't tell him. I mean, it was, it was bad. It's much worse than that. Like, let's move past that.

Right. That sounds funny, though. Oh, it's horrible. Well, especially since I, like, in the middle of it, realize, oh, no. Like, you're wired. Yeah. And. First thought popped in your mind, in your mind was like, this is another whore.

Yeah. So I leave. I go back. The FBI calls me. They tell me they want me to come in, talk. They're like, you know why. I'm like, yeah, I know why. So I'm supposed to go in. I get an attorney. The attorney talks to the FBI, works a deal out, gets me three years probation. So I get three years probation. But now I can't run the mortgage company, right? So now I'm on, you know, I'm on paper. And I got a probation officer is coming by all the time asking me questions and filling out paperwork and looking through my stuff. And, you know, and the right thing to do. do was, you know, I knew the right thing to do was you claim bankruptcy, so you're deep in debt, you claim bankruptcy, you move back in your old spare room, and that's, you know, that's way, and you start over and maybe you can sell used cars, you know, not what I did. What I thought was, I mean, I'm already a felon. Like the, you know what I'm saying? Like I had this, the veil of legitimacy when I was licensed, but now I'm not licensed and everybody looks at me like I'm a scumbag.

So I might as well behave like a scumbat. Like there was a, so the governor's off. So what I do is I thought, you know what? I'm going to start flipping properties in Ebor City. The area of Tampa called Ebor City is really run down. And so I thought, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to go in there. I'm going to buy houses, renovate them and sell.

And the problem is people that can live in those areas don't qualify for loans easily. And I thought, okay. And the houses don't appraise high. I'm buying the house for 50. I'm putting 25 in it. I'm selling it for $100. I make maybe $25,000. like that's not going to pay my bills.

I'm going to have to be doing five or six of these at a time at all time. It's going to be horrible. And the people aren't going to qualify. I'm going to lose my ass even doing this. You know, maybe I'll be okay. But it was much more work than I wanted to do. Much more risk to do. Right.

So what I decided was what I needed to do was I needed multiple things. One, I need these properties to appraise higher. So I'm going to buy the properties for $50,000. I'm going to pay the extra dock stamps on the loan. So I mean on the on the purchase. Okay. So when you buy a house for $100,000, you pay $700,000. If you buy it for 50, you pay $300, you buy it for $200,000. I'm buying it for $50,000. If I just paid the extra $1,000, that sale will show up at $200,000. So I start calculating what based on the square footage. I'm going to have this one show up for

220. This one will show up for $1.90. This will show up for $2.10. If you do that in an area, you do enough houses, the whole area shoots up through the roof. Right. Okay. So after I've done this for a year and a half, like Forbes Magazine ended up putting this area, the zip code, Ebor City zip code. They listed it as one of the top fastest growing zip codes at the top 20 fastest growing zip codes in the nation.

Because of the EU. Right, right. So, and I remember when I. Forbes magazine. Forbes magazine. But this didn't happen until after I take off. So at the time I don't know because I only did this for about the lesson two. years. So I start buying these houses and I thought, okay, so one thing is I want to buy the

houses, create the comparable sales. Second thing is, nobody's buying houses in this area for $250,000. So I thought, I need to create, I need to create synthetic identity or trawl men like the guys that bought from, I'm sorry? Yeah, is this like a, like a, it's like a non-white area, right? Is it like a black area? Yeah, it's a black area. I love this story. It's an urban area. You're helping black folks. So, yeah, it's just about people helping people.

Bringing up their property value. Yeah. I'm sure they thought so that way. So what happened is I thought, well, nobody's buying in this area for $200,000, $250,000. So what I'm going to do is I need to, you either need a straw man, somebody who can qualify for the loan will give you the money. But then I've got to split the money with them. And I want to split the money with this guy. And he's a liability anyway.

Yeah. So it could be wearing a wire one day. Right. So what I do is. I figure out how to get social security to issue social security numbers to children that don't exist. It took a lot of phone calls. It's a much longer story than we probably want to get into. I want to hear it all.

We're going to be an hour. So, you know, I basically called social security multiple times. First, I started off with, hey, I've never had a social security number. And they're like, how old are you? I was like, I'm 32. They're like, he's had a social security number. You know, like, fuck. Hang up. Call back. Hey, my son was born. Was he born in a hospital? Yes, he was born in a hospital. Then he has a social security number. You know, fuck, hang up. My son was born with a midwife. And they're like, oh, how old is he? Oh, he's five. Great. Get your son. Come down here. We'll look it up. I don't have a five-year-old kid. I can drag down there. So I'm like, okay. Then I was like, I call back. I'm a no, he's in South America with my ex-wife. The whole thing, midwife never had a social. And she goes, okay, um,

How old is he? I go five. She goes, oh, okay, well, shoot. She goes, if he was under, if he was under one years old, she was, I could, we could, you could just come down with his shot record and his birth certificate. We could issue one. I went, okay, click, hang right back. Hey, my son, midwife, born, blah, blah, he's 11, or is 10 months old. She's like, oh, so just come down with his birth certificate and his shot record. That's clever. So you call him these people, there's a pretext trying to get information out of. Right. And you know, you can call the Social Security Minutes. a hundred times, you're never talking to the same person.

Right, right. So I make, I make a fake birth certificate, right? Like I get a seal. I get the paper, you know, the, the, the, like Obama did, huh? So I get all that stuff. I don't know, okay. I'm just joking. He said that.

You're going to get me banned, bro. Like, I just got my channel back on track. I think I just got the shadow banned off me. I used to have Trump paintings on the wall. Oh, yeah. That's a mistake, bro. I was a mistake from my point. It's working for you guys.

Right. I don't have no Trump paint, though. Well, it wasn't working for me. So what happens is I make a, I mean, make a fake birth certificate. I make a fake shot record. And it's funny, listen to this, like, who knows what a shot record looks like, right? Right. You know what?

If you go on the Hillsborough County or any county website, they have the form, and then they actually have an example, like in cursive, like what it looks like filled out. I was like, oh my God. I would have never figured this out. You guys are great. Right. Filled the whole thing out. I walk in there.

I go up. I hand it to the woman and she looks on the computer and she goes, oh, wow, you're right. He doesn't have a social security card. Huh. Hold on. You'll have it in 10 days. I'm like, thank you. That's great.

And you can pick any name you want. Yeah. So anyway, I start getting the social security numbers issued to me. How many different social security numbers you get? like that. I don't want to get re-indicted. Let's say 20, 25, you know? So while I was in Florida, probably maybe 10 or 12.

And then I'm, well, there's a couple of, maybe let's say under 15. So I get these social security numbers issued. I then go online and I apply for credit cards. Of course, I don't say it's a 10-month old child. Right. I say it's a whatever, 32-year-old man, a 30-year-old man. I apply for credit cards. Of course, there's no credit.

You get denied. But what they do is they say, hey, you got denied, but we can give you. You're secured credit card. Can't get a regular one, but you get secured. I give them a 500 bucks or a thousand bucks. I make the payments, and in six months, I've got 700 credit scores. Right. So I've got 700 credit scores for a kid that doesn't exist.

I've got a real birth certificate. I can go to... I manufactured several driver's licenses myself, okay? But eventually what ends up happening is I just figured out I could go into the DMV and they would issue me an ID. in the name, if I can make the, I can make the birth certificate of it. Here's a birth certificate. Here's the social security card.

I can register to vote as this kid. They think he's 30. Here's your registration. Here's the lease. Here's this. Here's credit card bank statements. Oh, okay, stand over there. You get your ID.

You never get a driver's license as one of these synthetic identities. So I can go up and bank accounts, do whatever I want. I can buy a house and that's what I do. I start manufacturing these synthetic identities. Wow. And then I start buying the houses for 50,000. I record the value at 200 to 250,000. Perfect credit.

Keep in mind, I've also made, I've also got several shell companies because in Florida you can actually buy companies that are old. So let's say your company goes inactive. And after a few years, you can just pay the fees. And now you've got a company that's five years old. You own it. Because the original owner abandon it. Yeah.

You can change the name and it looks like it's five years old. So I've got several companies, cell phones connected to them. And so I can say that this synthetic person has W-2s and pay stubs. You can call their employer. They'll verify it. You can look at the credit. It's perfect. You can, I have, well, I did this multiple ways, but either way, I had canceled checks made up.

So it looks like a canceled check. I don't know, nobody uses checks anymore. But that used to be a big deal. And so it looks like a real canceled check. Let me ask you this question. So when the bank was calling to verify the person was a cue picking up the phone. Oh, yeah. It's me or my girlfriend or a broker or friend of mine, whatever, if they called it all, you know, which was amazing.

Was it strippers? No, no, it wasn't. No. I was over the strippers by that point. I was married by that point. Actually, going through a divorce at this point. So I. This is too funny, man.

Oh, listen, this is nothing. Yeah. This is nothing. This is the tip of the iceberg. Like, listen, I started making fake bank accounts, fake banks. Like I created Ebor City. No, it was bankofebor.com. I create southern exchangebank.com.

So you could go to the website, and it's a bank website. I had bank statements where you could, like real bank statements. So it looked like bank statements, color black, I mean, back and front bank statements. I've got envelopes. You don't do this now. You get it online, right? This is when you mailed it. Right, right, right.

And I realized if you sent the bank, the real bank, the colored bank statements in, right? You know what I'm saying? So they look real authentic. They're not. But I send them in. If the underwriter got it, they would call you and say, or call the broker and say, listen, you guys mailed in the originals. And they go, oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

Mail those back to us. They go, okay, we'll make a copy. They'd make a copy. And they'd stamp them original, they have some name for it. It's like an original copy or something. So they don't even call. Why would I call? These are the originals.

Obviously, they're true. Now, if they did call, it doesn't matter. Somebody's answering that phone. Hold on. I'll look it up right now. Yes, I can verify the amount. What's how much is in the bank? Oh, 9,000.

Yep, that's right. Wow. Just like a regular bank. Yeah. Anyway, so I do this whole thing. That's crazy. These guys start buying the houses. So they're buying the houses for 50,

recording the sales at 200, then applying for a loan. but bank sends out like an appraiser. The appraiser says, yeah, it's worth $200,000. Why? Because there's a comparable sale over there. There's a comparable sale right there. One across the street.

One's half a mile away. They're everywhere. They're all me. They get an appraisal for $200, $250,000. They say, well, we'll lend you $190,000, $180,000, whatever it comes to. So each person bought, each one of these guys would buy five or six houses and borrow, but one mortgage. And so roughly a million dollars.

And there were other things. We take out personal loans, credit cards. Because by this point, these guys, I can get a $30,000 credit card, $20,000 credit card. Right. So we pull out all the money, and we make four or five payments,

and we stop paying. So then the banks start, they start sending, you know, they send the collection letters, right? They just get the collection letter. After a month or two, I would write a letter. from my synthetic borrowers sister. And I would include an article about a 12-car pile-up on I-75 or I-4

where somebody was lifelighted, and I would re-type the whole thing. Listen, you have no idea how hard this was because this is paper. This is in the newspaper. This isn't online. So I can't highlight it. I had to type the whole thing in. And then I had to print it out on newsprint and then cut the newsprint up. So it looks like an article you cut it up and laid on the copy.

machine. This is some shit. But now I've got my guy, James Red, was in a 12-car pile-up. He was life-flighted to Tampa General Hospital. He's in critical condition. And the letter from the sister says he's currently in the coma. And the doctors say, even if he ever wakes up, he'll never work again. That's why he hasn't paid.

I understand if you have to foreclose. And then they foreclose it. They just want to, they want a reason. Yeah. They want a reason. You know, they'll keep coming until they get a reason. That goes in their file and they're like, oh, yeah, this guy's done. We're close.

He's not showing up. We're good. So they take the house, they put it back on the market. They start lowering the price, lowering the price, lower in the price, lower in the price. They end up reselling it again for $50,000, $60,000. So they lose $100,000 and they have no idea they got scammed. None. I do this to the tune of $11.5 million.

And I was, had some bud, a couple. And listen, I got caught like all the, not all the time, but several times. You know, the mortgage company, I would get caught. I'd get caught by somebody and they'd say, look, you're a mortgage broker. One of your mortgage brokers, we just caught $2 million worth of fraud. We already sold a million of it. We're still got a million on the books. And I'd say, listen, Gary, I don't know what you want me to tell you.

Like, I mean, I don't have a million dollars. I'm not cutting you a check for a million. I don't know what to do. No, no, no, no. We're going to sell the rest of it to household bank. But if this comes back on us, we're going to want you to help us. sell that get rid of these properties. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, of course, of course. So think about what you're saying. You just caught my guy red-handed. Of course, I'm not admitting

I knew anything about it. I'm like, oh, he's a rogue broker. He's fired. Yeah. I can't, what? LaFuante did? No, he's such a good guy. He looked me in the face. He looked me in the face. This guy went to my kids, you know, birthday party. I'm doing the whole thing. I'm offended. Y'all liked our last ram we gave away. Yeah. So we got us another one. Check this ram out. 2,500, heavy duty, turbo disk, RAM. R-A-M-R-A-M-R-A-RAM! It's got all kinds of RAM action.

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Go to official hardswitz. Anything you buy from the site get you automatically. Enter winning. Yeah. No purchase necessary. Go on web prohibited. official rules with detail. So they sell it.

They would sell it. So this is a guy he knows he just sold a million dollars in fraud to a household bank. He's got another million on the books. He's going to sell it. And this is so, I mean, that was common. Yeah. So they're not. So the whole industry is just rifle.

Oh, that's nothing. Listen, that's, I've been caught red hand where they're basically talking to me on the phone. I had a company South Star Bank out of Atlanta, Georgia. they called me and I'm on the phone with are they still around I was going to say most of these plays have gone under no South Star Bank it's a real thing yeah they completely caught me red-handed when I'm talking to them on the phone they're like listen you know mr. Green you know we don't even think you exist like I get I understand there's some issues you know and I'm I'm explain to them they're like oh we're calling the FBI I'm like well don't you want you well let's talk about getting your your money back oh we'll get the money back when we foreclose on the problem property. Oh, I get it. Let me explain. Do you have the appraisal in front of you? And they're like, yeah, we do. I go, open it up. Comparable sale number one is owned by a guy named Michael White. Comparable sale number two is a guy named James Red. Comparable sale number is Lee Black. Oh, I didn't tell you this. I was a huge Quentin Tarantino fan. So my guys are named like James Red, yeah, Brandon Green, Michael White, Lee Black, David Silver. Yeah. So they would look at it. They go and look it up and they're like, holy, shit. I'm like, yeah, this is what I did. So if you foreclose, I mean, I'm sorry, so if you call the police, you just lost $150,000 or $100,000, whatever it was. And they're like, do you have

the money still? I was like, yeah, absolutely, I'll send you the money. We can't call the police, though. Can't call the FBI. You don't want them going through my files. I don't want them going through your files. Right. And they would go, okay, just get us the money back. And they, and I, listen, I always have people, well, what if they called anyway? But they didn't. Like, what choice do I have? Right. Right. I have to try. And nobody ever called back. So that sounded horrible. I know that that that fucking TikTok's going to make me look vicious. Right.

So, um, so anyway, listen, I was telling a story the other day on a TikTok about a guy who, who, or I was telling a story in a interview and I ended up saying, talking about a guard who had told a gay guard who had told an inmate he was trying

to pick up, you know, if you, he goes, if you have sex with another man and you're in prison, it doesn't make you gay. And I said that, right? So my Joe, which is named Colby, cuts that fucking thing up.

And that's my clip if you, you know, if you, so all it makes it. And I'm thinking, I go, oh, that doesn't make me look good at all. They got me saying, you know, if you have sex with a man in prison, you're not gay. I mean, what are you doing? Yeah, what are you doing to me, bro? You're killing me here. Yeah. Anyway.

So what happens is. I'm not going to do that, too. Okay. So, yeah, I was going to say. So what happens. is I end up buying a lot of these houses. And we do, you know, we get the appraisals. We pull out 11.5 million.

But I have a couple of people that are helping do stuff. One of my buddies gets arrested. I won't get into the intricacies of it. He gets arrested in a bank for doing something in the bank for something I told him not to do. I'm like, don't cash a check. Don't get the, he goes in. He does it anyway. He gets caught.

He immediately cooperates with the authorities. They put together a task force. And I kind of know something's going on because periodically I'm getting a phone call from, let's say, a title company saying, you know, the FBI just came and they subpoenaed your records or the whatever. It wasn't actually the FBI at that time. It was the FDLE, Florida Department of Law Enforcement. And I'm like, oh, okay. And I'm like, you know, like it wasn't mine, though. like one of your borrowers or one of your investors,

and I'm thinking, most of those don't go anywhere. And I'm thinking, okay, well, maybe I'm okay. You know, you're trying to convince myself to not completely panic. Yeah. Did that close it in? Like, I'm trying to tell myself that, but they are. And then one day, a sheriff's deputy that I had done about a million or $2 million with the loans between him and his wife,

He comes to me one day and he says, hey, Matt, listen, man. I'm like, yeah, what's up? And he goes, he said, I used to date a woman on the Tampa Police Department. And I'm like, okay. She came to my house this morning. I'm like, all right. And he goes, she was recently on a task force that was handed over to the FBI. And I'm like, okay.

And he said, and she wanted, he was, my name came up in the investigation. And he said, I said, okay. He said, the task force is on you. the FBI is going to come arrest you in a couple days. And I was like, okay. And, you know, my first thought was, run. I'm, I'm currently on probation.

Currently I have three, and the judge made it very clear. Yeah. Don't, I don't, you don't want to see me again. Right. Mr. Cox. So I'm thinking, oh, I'm going to jail. Like, I'm going to, you know, and I can't go to jail. I'm adorable, bro.

Like, this was 15 years ago. I was a sexy motherfucker. And, you know, I know, I'm, you know, You saw me. You saw me. You guys are like six foot something, you know. I'm five foot. I'm five foot six. I'm the kind of guy that they make shave their head so the mop wig will fit right. You know what I'm saying? It's not going to be good. I saw a shank. It ain't going to be good for me. Right. And, you know, I'm, I know you guys look at me and you think tough guy. I'm not. I'm soft as cotton. So yeah. What happens is I, he's like, what are you going to do? I said, I'm leaving. Taking off. I'm going. You know. So. I pull out like 80 grand because believe it or not, even if you have a million dollars in the bank, you can't get it out. Like that's the first time that was ever an issue for me. That money is not in there.

No, no. You go in and you're like, they'll give you maybe five. If you ask for more than 10 or 15, they're like, oh, yeah, you got to request that. So I have people cashing checks for the next day and a half. I get 80 grand in cash. I run up all my credit cards. I get my car. I actually take this chick I was dating for a month.

She'll tell you two months, but it was a month. And she comes with me. She begs to come with me. I don't want to get into that. She's bipolar. She's a lunatic. Her name is Rebecca Halk. She's still around.

Anyway, so she comes with me. What a mistake. Where did you go? We went immediately went to Atlanta. So I go to Atlanta. I go to Alpharetta. So I go to Alpharetta.

That's a nice area. It is. It was back then, too. It was very new. Everything was new. It was this cookie cutter house. We rent a house for $200,000 in the name of a guy named,

Michael Shanahan. Football coach. I think somebody else has said that. Yeah, for Redskins. You said coached for Redskins and Diffie. You want a couple of Super Bowls. This guy was an accountant. So, anyway, we,

we rent, I rent the place, I make a fake idea as Michael Shanahan. And keep mine, at this point, I'm putting ads in the newspaper. Good credit, bad credit, no problem.

Free applications, call now. people call to apply for mortgages. They give me all their information. Then I take that that app and I give it to a real mortgage broker. Like I call somebody to say, hey man, we take apps. We got too many. Would you want these six guys? I've already stolen their information. I have a morning. Their birth certificates. They're registering to vote. Get in their high school transcripts. You can get all kinds of shit. And I need this to go get an ID or a driver's license in their name. So I'm opening up bank accounts. Well, one of the things I do is I go downtown.

I pull Michael Shanahan's his title and I see he's got I only see he had two mortgages on his property a Bank of America first and a second so I create a satisfaction of mortgage completely fabricated right like I mean I order a notary stamp

the whole thing I notarize it I go downtown and I filed the satisfaction of so it satisfies those mortgage mortgages it doesn't really satisfy them. But for the purposes of public records, they don't know whether they don't know if that satisfaction came from the real Bank of America

or me. Because I showed up and I'm like, hey, listen, Bank of America mailed me these, but they said they were supposed to mail them to you and they're like, oh yeah, that happens sometimes. Thank you. They scan them and those mortgages are gone. Now Bank of America doesn't know anything about it and this guy still make it as mortgage payment so it doesn't affect

him. He doesn't know. But now I'm living in a $200,000 house that Michael Shanahan has owned for 10 years, and I'm living in it as Michael Shanahan. Now, I don't use a social security number. I don't even know his date of birth. I just have an ID that says Michael Shanahan.

I don't need any of that because I call three hard money lenders. You know what a hard money lender is? So this is a guy like that, let's say he's got two or three million dollars, and what he does is he just lends that money out at 65% of the value of a home. So I go to these guys, and they're like, yeah, I'll lend you $100,000. $150,000 or $140,000, whatever, on this $200,000 home. And matter of fact, when American Greed interviewed these guys, they actually say, you know, it's a no-brainer. You know what I mean?

Of course, they don't know that there's two mortgages that are just been satisfied. They think they're in first position. So, and they also don't know that I called three of them. So one guy shows up at 10 in the morning. One guy shows up at like one. One guy shows up at three. They all say, yeah, it's worth 200,000. I'll lend you 150.

I schedule three different closings, close all three of them at the same time. that's $450,000. There's closing costs. So let's say $400. I take that money. I deposited into the bank accounts, and I start pulling that money out of the bank. That works out pretty well.

Actually, at one point, I went to cash a check for $29,000, and they give me a hard time, a little bit of a hard time about it, and they end up saying, okay, well, we're going to, the short version is they decide to call to verify the check. It was actually a cashier.

It was a little bit more complicated in this, but the girl at the bank calls Michael Shanahan. So I'm in there trying to cash it as as Scott Cugno. I'm trying to cash it as Scott Cugno. So I'm, and here's the worst thing is, listen, this is bad. This is bad. I didn't feel bad about this, Scott, because we were friends. So Scott won't talk to me.

You won't talk to me? No, I reached out to him. I'm sorry, what happened? Like, I love to know. I really only, it's really my own. entertainment. I want to know what when he figured out what was happening because the Secret Service or the FBI,

whoever, or the marshals, they went to his house, knocked on the door and they were like, do you know this guy? He's like, yeah, that's Matt Cox. He's just cashed like $400,000 in your name. So anyway, because I had done a loan for him. So when I left Florida, I had his information. So it's like, oh,

let's take Scott's stuff. So I'm cashing the check, $29,000 check as Scott Cugnow. And they're verifying a check. So they call Michael Shanahan to verify the check. So my cell phone rings. So I'm sitting in the bank. My cell phone rings. And they're like, hey, this, you know, Mr. Shanahan. This is Kimberly from South Trust Bank. Just calling to verify that, you know, we have a check here. We want to verify that it's okay. I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah, that's Scott Cugno. I think it's usually you

verify the amount. I'm like, I think it's 29,000 roughly about 20. She's like, that's it. Okay, just wanted to make sure. Thank you. Hang out the phone. Five minutes later, they come out. They count out the money. The bank manager who knew something was wrong. Counts out the money twice. And then he gives me the money, and I'm shuffing it in my pocket. It's like, I'm so happy. And I'm walking out of that bank.

It was one of the last things, checks I was doing. We'd already gotten out, $350, $400,000. So as I get up to walk away, he goes, Mr. Cugnow? And I go, yes, sir? And he says, I want to let you know. I feel very out. comprehensive about this transaction. I go, really?

I go, well, what is it exactly? And he goes, he goes, I can't put my fingers on it. And I go, it'll come to you. And I bolt right out. I get in the car. This is horrible, too, by the way. You guys are making me feel that. I never feel bad about it.

You're laughing more than I do. It's very interesting, man. It's like, you've got balls of steel. I remember getting into the car. And the chick I was with, Becky, was in the car. And I start, I'm like, oh, my God, you're not going. I got to fucking believe this. And she's like, what happened?

What happened? I'm like, listen. And I tell her and she's like, oh, my God. And there used to be a show called on, called masterminds about criminals. And I used to watch it. On the run, I'm watching. And I was like, that's going to be on my masterminds episode. Oh my God.

My judge is going to see this. He's going to be like, I should have given this fucker more time. So, but I'm off probation now. Like gloves are off. Yeah. So anyway, what happens is why we get the money. We take off three or four days. later, Secret Service enters the picture. So I got the FBI chasing me now. I got the Secret Service

chasing me. Wow. The U.S. Marshals are chasing me too, obviously, because I was on federal probation and I took off. So they grab you or they look for you. And so I go from there to Charlotte, North Carolina. This is clearly not the 10-minute version, by the way. No, this is totally cool. Okay. Sorry. I'll wrap it up. I'll let me give you to a couple of good ones and then you can then we can just shoot the shit because then you'll be like holy shit um and i've missed a bunch stuff anyway so i go to charlotte we set up camp there right we get a condo you know downtown like you know we're big shots why didn't you have a fleet of country i i did i i have i've had 24 passports issued by the state department listen i've had 27 driver's license issued from seven different

states so it's like guys were like weren't you worried to to drive like bro i'm i'm not a guy driving around in a stolen car with a broken tail light and a body in the trunk. I'm driving if I'm Walter Holcomb, I've got a driver's license to Walter Holcomb, driving Walter Holcomb's car. Right, right. With full coverage insurance. And I've gotten mint, listen, I got so many,

as a guy named Michael Eckert, I got so many tickets in his name, I had to go to driving school. He was going to lose his license. I can't have this guy lose his fucking license. I got like two cars and a condo. So, so anyway, I go to Charlotte.

I drive to South Carolina to Columbia. Is it Columbia, South Carolina or Columbus? Anyway, Columbia. Columbus? Columbus, South Carolina. So I go to Columbus. I get a real estate agent. Oh, so I go, okay, so at this point,

I don't want to steal anybody's identity. I don't want to steal a regular person's identity. Because what if he gets in trouble? What if he gets a, I actually stole a guy's identity who had like a couple DUIs, and I thought, I don't want to be driving as this guy. I don't want to be.

Right, right, right. So I started thinking, who can I, who's identity? I need to get people that aren't using their identities, right? And so, listen, don't judge me, bro. I can see you're much more judgmental than him. He's enjoying this. I can see it in your face. I thought twins, I thought, oh, they're the same, but you're not.

You're not. You're like a little disgusted. So. I'm loving this actually. So, um, entertaining. So what happens is I decide I need to use people's identities that aren't using them. Right. Right.

So I start surveying homeless people. I should have waited until you were drinking water. So I make a statistical, your people are going to love me. So your statistics, I make a statistical survey form. I make a little badge. I actually use my wanted poster picture on the badge. Um. And I, it's a statistical surveyor.

And I walk around. That's right. You got a warning posted at this time. Oh, yeah. And you put that on your bank. Yeah. I put the little picture on it. Yeah.

Oh, listen, there's, by this point, there's, there's 10, 12 articles in the St. Pete Times. There's articles in the, in the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Like, they're, they're starting to see some, some attention at this point. You know, I keep thinking, you know. I would love to see your, I'm sure they had to take your picture in there. Yeah. I would love to see those articles like now. So you can look.

If you look it up to, you'll notice, because keep in mind, I've got, I, while on the run, I get a nose job, two hair transplants, that's not my hair. I get, I get, I get liposuction. I get what's called a mini face look. I get my teeth done. Listen, I'm not fucking around. Like, prison's not a part of my plan. But if you look, if you look, you can see that, look at the one in blue. Holy shit.

Look at that, look at that forehead, bro. Wow. That was 20, that was a 20 years ago forehead. Yeah Yeah Don't even do like the same person And my nose was like round If you zoom in

You can see how round my nose is Yeah Look, want it for mortgage bro Yeah It's kind of almost embarrassing right Like it's not like bank robbery Yeah It's mortgage fraud

And your pictures look so different Wow You're like a psycho right there I know That was my joker I should always say that's my joke That's your joker face Wow

that's me wow that looks like me that's me now that's not too long ago yeah yeah yeah it's the orange ones

and the one with the hair there in the blue the one in the white t-shirt yeah the long hair Joe no no back out go to you look yeah that one

not even that one that's not the one there's another one too yeah that's Becky that's Becky right there's Becky there's Becky there's Becky

yeah yeah Yes. Look at this one. Hey, have you ever gotten anybody from Hollywood to write your story? Yeah, I'm in the middle of that. Now, I've been in the middle of that for five years. Because they don't allow you to make money from that, right? No, no, there's the son of Sam law, federal son of Sam law,

only applies for crimes of violence and espionage. Oh, I see. So, but the problem is, is that, you know, I've had a few scripts written, multiple producers, you know, have optioned it. They look into it. They, it just, it spins and spins and you do the, you do the meetings and the this. And then it fades off. And then it, the options expire.

And then another guy comes along and I'm telling you this is, we're going to do this. And you're like, okay, okay. You know, yeah, great. I'm excited. But I mean, at this point, I'm just going through the motions. Right. Like I don't want to, you know, discount it completely because that'd be stupid. Like it doesn't cost me anything to have an hour meeting or 20 minute meeting.

Right. So why not do it? And hey, it. Stranger things have happened. So what happens is I go to I go to Vegas so I start surveying the homeless guys I give them 20 bucks a piece I get their information then I go get a driver's license in their name I get a passport in their name and then so I go at one point I go to I'm gonna tell you the whole story because this part so I get because it's embarrassing So I go to Vegas with with Becky and we we give her family a bunch of money and she gambles a little bit

We see a movie whatever we hang out there for a little bit and what am I saying? We're in Vegas right now. I didn't realize that. We're in Vegas now. Right. So I go, so we go there and, or we go here, we come here, we hang out for a few days. And while we're here, might as well survey some guys, right?

So I swing by to go to, first place we went. No. Listen, the first place I went to, there were so many of them. I was like, I'm not getting out here. So she goes, oh, I know another spot because she was from Vegas. So she goes originally. I met her in Florida, but she had lived in Vegas. So we go to this one spot, and I get out, and there's a couple guys on a bench,

park bench. So I get out, I go, hey, you guys, taking surveys for the Salvation Army to determine where we place our next homeless facility. Nah, I'm not interested. Pays $20 cash right now. It's 17 questions. It'll take less than five minutes. They're like, yeah, right now, right now.

$20, $20 cash. All right, yeah, man, what do you need? So I take the information. I get a couple information. One of the guy's name is Gary Sullivan. So I get Gary Sullivan's information. While I'm taking it, I say, have you ever been a rat, He's like, yeah, I've been arrested.

He is, but they were just misdemeanors. And I said, oh, for what? And he goes, he was prostitution. And I thought, that doesn't make sense because women are arrested for prostitution. Men are arrested for solicitation. And he could see the confusion in my face. And I looked at him, he goes, and listen, it's this guy. He like, I had no click.

He said, and I went, and I looked at him. And he goes, he said, yeah, he said, I offered to blow, don't use this. He goes, I offered to blow a cop for 20 bucks. And he said, I've been a right. He goes, but it's only a misdemeanor. And I was like, oh, so you're, oh, you're a prostitute. And he goes, he said, yeah, he said, well, a girl's got to do or a girl's got to do. He like, I'm not going to do it.

I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to do it. I'm going to give you the pleasure of me doing the whole. But he did a whole head thing. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, that's okay. So I take his information. I go back to.

north no south carolina i get an id in his name not a driver's like just an id i don't have a car i don't need to drive as him so i get the i then get a real estate agent and we start buying or we go around we look for a bunch of houses we put some contracts out i get two houses under contract i convince the owners to owner finance the houses to me you know i'll give you the 250 000 house i'll give you 25 000 down you owner finance it they say oh well there's a first mortgage on it i don't care, we'll do a wrap around mortgage, not a big deal. I'll pay you, you pay your bank. No problem. We close. Everything's great. I then go downtown immediately satisfy their loan and satisfy the loan that they originally had on the house. So now I have a $250,000 house that's in the name Gary Sullivan.

He's got no credit. He's just got nothing but bad credit, really. I actually paid off about $20,000 worth of medical bills. So I bought another house for around, I want to say $100,000, maybe $150,000, and I satisfy the loans on those houses. I then turn around. I go to six or seven different banks and I borrow money against those houses simultaneously, just like I did in Atlanta. So I borrow $1.3 million. I deposit those into multiple bank accounts, including corporate accounts, different guys' names, whatever. So I start pulling the cash out.

I get about $600,000 or $700,000 in cash out. And one day, and I'm pulling it out $8,000, $3,000, $7,000. Like, there's no crypto. There's no, I don't know, you know, there's no way that there's no cash app. Like this is the only way I could think to get it out is just go in the bank. Then I have time. Nobody knows that this fraud has occurred. So I walk in the bank one day, Wachovia Bank.

And I asked for like four grand or something. And I'm waiting, waiting. It always took long because I just opened the account. And so all of a sudden a guy reaches over and grabs my arm. And another guy grabs my arm and they handcuff my arms. It's two sheriff's deputies. And they say, hey, we were told to detain you. follow me and I'm like what the hell's going on guy grabs my ID off the

off the table walks me into a little office and I sit down everybody in the bank staring at me you know and he says we're like what's happening bro and he's like and he's like look we're we're waiting we're waiting for a detective to come and for some reason I thought out like FBI like I didn't know at that time the difference between a detective an agent you know I don't know so I was thinking the FBI is coming you know or secret service whatever They're coming. It's bad. So I'm sitting there waiting and this detective walks in. And he's like probably in his mid-30s gray suit. He looked like he could be FBI. But he looks

in and he says, hey, listen, he said, Mr. Sullivan, he said, we got a complaint from Wachovia Bank. They said you're, you've got, you've got three mortgages on your house. I actually had like six or seven, but not even including the two that I satisfied. So, and I went, is that illegal? And he goes, you know, I don't know. And I remember thinking, I'm walking out of here. Right, right. He doesn't have a clue what's happening. He's calling me Gary.

He's calling me Mr. Sullivan. Right. You don't know who I am. So, right. Okay. No big deal. And I go, okay, no, I'm like, okay. And he says, well, let me get the head of Wachovia's fraud department on the phone.

Pulls it up, calls him up, says, hey, I've got Gary Sullivan here. Here's what's going on? And I'm like, what is the problem? And he's like, well, he's got three mortgages. And I'm like, yeah, I have a first mortgage, a second mortgage, and a he lock, a home equity line of credit. And he explains that. And the guy goes, no, he says they're all first mortgages. I said, I read every one of those mortgages.

None of them said first mortgage. Mortgages don't say it. That's the placement of the lien. It doesn't say it on the document itself. Now, of course, he doesn't have a clue. He just said they're all first mortgages. So he's saying, he starts trying to explain it. And he's like, okay, so it doesn't say it on the actual.

But it's, okay, well, he said that you borrowed three mortgages on the property so quickly that they couldn't, that they, they were recorded one after the other. And that's why I was like, I was like, okay, I don't, how is that wrong? I've got a first mortgage or second mortgage in a helot. Yeah, that's not true. They're all first mortgages. I go, that's not true. And he's like, why did he go to three different banks if he, you know, and I said, let me explain something. I came in here.

Well, listen, I'm fucking, you know, I'll be a dick, right? I'm like, okay, let me explain something. Here's what happened. I came in here to Wachovia, my bank, and asked for a first mortgage. I told him I wanted to get half a million dollars. I'm flipping properties. He goes, oh, that's right. You own another piece of property here, too, right?

I'm thinking, ooh, he does a little bit. Yeah. More than I've got to tighten up. So I was like, yeah, I bought the first mortgage, but they couldn't give me half a million. So what the loan officer here said, I've got a friend that can give you a second mortgage. And she works at and I go, oh, shoot, because I don't know what mortgages they know about. So I'm like, oh, shoot.

And he says like rock mortgage. And I was like, yeah, rock mortgage. And then I went, and then I got a he lock from. And he goes, he goes, oh, that must be the South Trust one. I went, right, or SunTrust. He goes, that must be the SunTrust one. And I'm like, I'm like, right. So I said, so the guy who got me the second said, the woman who got me the second

said, hey, I have a friend that can get you a helo. You can use it. It's like a big credit card. He's like, yeah, yeah, I know what it is. Oh, okay. I said, so I go there. I said, and then they scheduled the closings. I went to the closings.

I gave them the documents. I'm like, I haven't done anything wrong. Right. You know, and so this guy on the phone knows exactly what's happening. He's flipping out. My people, we would never, the loan officers would never do anything like that. And I know that's not true. Right.

I own a mortgage company. Right, right. So he's screaming. Ask him why he's pulling the money out in cash. I said, because I work for a labor company. And I get the, the, um, my business card out. on demand. And I said, I'm a site manager for a labor company. And when I said a lot of these guys are like Mexicans and stuff and they don't, these guys charge them like five and 10 percent to

cash their checks. But I know their checks are good. So I just cash them myself. I go, man, I don't know if that's illegal. He's like, no, no, that's a nice thing to do. That's fine. I'm like, yeah. And so by this point, I didn't mention he's calling me Gary and I'm calling him John or whatever his name is, right? Right. Right. I'm like, well, thank you, John. So he's like, no, Gary, that's not bad. It's not illegal. Okay. So this guy's losing it. So on the phone. Oh, on the phone. He can see like you're, you're slowly wearing this guy down. Right. And he's losing it. This guy actually has to tell him, hey, calm down a couple of times. I want him arrested. I want this. He's like, okay, well, I don't even know what to charge him with. He came in, he applied for a loan. You gave it to

him. Right. You don't understand. They're all first mortgages. Yeah, but how would he know if they're first mortgages? You just told me they don't say first mortgage. And, and, and, you know, and, And your loan officer sent him to the second mortgage loan officer, which is not true. But now he's telling him it is true. Right, right, right. So I'm sitting there. And anyway, he ends up, so I'll speed this one up. So he says to him, he says, look at his ID.

His eye, he's got a fake ID. And he goes, it starts with zero, zero, zero. South Carolina IDs start with zero zero. This guy's from like California or somebody. He doesn't know what, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah. So the cop, the detective says, listen, he said, it's a real ID. It was issued by the state of South Carolina.

I've already pulled this guy through NCIC. It's a real ID. And I lean in and I go, oh, what? Now I'm not Gary Sullivan. I go, bro, what are we doing here? And he says, I know, Gary, I know. I'm like, Wacoa is melting down. This is for this I almost felt bad.

I almost felt like, bro, like, listen, I know, I feel bad. Like, you know what the fuck's happening. I got this guy fooled, though. Like, I'd love to see that guy. Like, right? Did I have him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I don't think he didn't find it funny.

But so this guy says, look, I don't even know what you're charging with. I'm going to take him back to the police department. I'm going to fill out a police report. I'm going to talk to the district attorney, figure out what's going on. And we'll get back with you. Picks me up. Not picks me up, but he's like, okay, hop up. Let's go.

You can follow me. He's taking the cuffs off by now. So he goes, yeah, follow me. And he goes, wait a minute. He said, you, he said, you have a driver's license? And I went, I have, I said, yeah, in Nevada. And he goes, and he goes, because you only have an ID here. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's in Nevada.

He goes, why didn't you get a driver's license here? I said, because you need full coverage insurance and I don't have a vehicle. And he's like, oh, that's right, you're driving your, he goes, you're driving another vehicle. It's not in your name. He's like, he knows some shit. right he's yeah piqued the whole thing and i'm driving a vehicle that's in the name michael ecchard and he goes you're he said oh you want to hear something really funny i actually legally changed michael ecchard's name to michael johnson just to see what the process would be like like that much i feel horror

i mean you know can you imagine this poor guy anyway stop judging me so what happens is he says uh he says okay well follow me he goes well wait a minute so he is you have a driver's light said yeah nevada and the guy, one of the sheriff's deputies, goes, I'll check, and he takes the ID, and he walks out to his car. Now, keep in mind, this is 2005. I'm still terrified. Like, I don't know if he can pull it up. So I know if you go in the DMV and you have multiple driver's licenses in other states, they can't pull up those photos. Right.

At that time, it's a hub system. Yeah. So, and this was a long time, but I don't think anything's changed. And, I mean, I was like, huh? So he walks outside. He comes back. Oh, wait. That's not, here's what happens.

He says, I say, when I tell him, yeah, I do, but it's from, I'm, you know, I have a driver's license in Nevada. He goes, oh, that's right, you're from Nevada. And they all glancing each other and kind of grin. And I realize he pulled my NCIC. He thinks I've been arrested for prostitution. He knows I've got two misdemeanors for prostitution. Gary Sullivan's been arrested. And I was like.

He thinks she's sunk out. Oh, yeah. I was like, four. fuck you know what am i going to say you know i'm like sitting there and they're like yeah yeah he's like oh let me go check he kind of grins and walks off yeah five minutes later he comes back out or comes back in the place and he says uh yeah he was it checks out he is he was he's it's it's good he's like yeah he says well it says he says he says he's 511 and they all look at me and i go well fellas with a good pair of shoes and they go ha ha ha follow us gary yeah i get my car yeah i thought so

Here's what's really funny, too. That chick, Becky, every time I would go in a bank to get cash, sometimes she'd wait in the car, whatever, I'd call her and say, look, because sometimes they would, like, she would maybe open the accounts and they would need to call her or call somebody to verify, you know, the check, whatever. And so I would always say, hey, I'm going to that bank account, you open in the name so-and-so. I'm going to cash one of her checks. She'd say, okay, and she would wait. And so I So she would always say What if you get arrested?

And I'd go, well, if I get arrested, then you get me an attorney And you get me out of jail Because here's the way it worked I don't know how it works now But it used to work like this If you're arrested back then With a driver's license

And your identity is not in question They take your prints But they don't run them Especially small towns they save them up or they don't run them why would we spend like you have to understand like the government charges them to run them so why would we spend seven bucks or 12

bucks to run your fucking prince when I have an ID issued in the state of you know right you're being arrested for bouncing a check or opening a bad doing something but your identity is not in question and I was like my identity's not in question get a even a shitty lawyer will get me out on bond

and she's like okay and I always used to wonder like what do you think I'm going to say take the money save yourself Like, what are you doing? Get me out. So anyway, so I walk out. I get in the car. Start the car. Everybody's kind of driving.

And my phone's run like, you know, my personal phone, right? Not the one, not Gary Sullivan's. And I pick it up. It's run like 50 times. I've been in a bank an hour. What? And I pick up the phone. I'm like, hey, what's going on?

She's like, oh my God. She was, I just looked you up on the internet. You were number one in the Secret Services Most Wanted list. And I go, bro, I got bigger problems. And she's like, what am I said? I was just in the bank. I was handcuffed. I talked about the handcuffs.

I'm going to the fucking police station right now. She's like, get on the run. Get on the interstate. I'm like, I'm not a, you know, I'm not going to out run a helicopter. Like, what are you doing? I'm not a NASCAR driver. Yeah. Yeah.

And so anyway, I'm like, yeah, I'm like, listen, I've got to go. I've trust me. I've got this. She's like, oh my God. Oh my God. And she starts saying, she was, I said, the worst that will happen is if I get arrested, get me a lawyer. And she's, I'm not getting you out on bond, not getting you a lawyer.

I'm not risking everything I've got. to save you. And I thought, she's sitting on like 700 grand. Yeah. And I just thought, fuck. And there's nothing I can do.

Right. Cops behind me, cops in front of me. Right. Pull in the police station. We get out. I go inside. I don't know if you guys have ever been in a police station.

Right. But it's, you're not walking in and out. There's punching this button. This guy buzzes you in. You get in the elevator. You punch a couple buttons to go up. Like it's three layers to get in to a point where I'm sitting down in this guy's office.

We do a police. report. He talks to his lieutenant. He comes back. He says, he says, listen, I'm, I got to talk to my lieutenant real quick. Can you wait in the hallway? I go, sure. I go stand in the hallway. There's all these wanted posters. My secret service, that wanted poster is, is on the wall. It's the only color poster on the wall. Everything else is black and white. Right. And I look up and I'm just like, holy shit. And everybody, they haven't put two and two to get it yet. No, but everybody, People always ask me like, why didn't you run? Do you know what it took to get in here?

Like, I'm not getting out of here. I'm not even going to get in the elevator. I'm not getting down the stairs. I don't know what to do. He walks up behind me. Hey, Gary, ready to go? I'm like, yeah, I'm ready, bro. Yeah, let's do this.

Walks me outside, says, hey, listen, the district attorney has some questions. Like, you know, we may need to, we may need to talk to you again. Like, there's some questions here. I'm like, okay. He said, just do me a favor. Don't leave town. Where am I going? I got two houses here.

I got to work here. He's like, okay. I get in the car, I go to two more banks, pull out some more money, jump on the interstate, haul ass, go straight back to Charlotte. Did you take Beckett with you? Did you cut her loose? No. So Becky's already relocated to Houston.

Listen to this. I go all the way back, pack up all my stuff in a U-Haul, drive all the way to Houston, unload all my stuff into some storage units, come back, tell her I need to, we need to find another place. By this point, we've both got separate apartments, by the way. Like we're not living together. She's insane. She's had the cops called on my two or three times.

She's bipolar. She's insane. I sent her to a psychiatrist. She wouldn't take her fucking Zola. I mean, she'd take it for like a week or two and say, oh, I'm all better now. You're not all better now. Take the medication. Yeah.

I mean, it was, it was hell. So we get into a huge argument. She tells, so she, I tell her, let's split up the money and go our separate ways. She says, no, we argue. And finally, she says, I'll give you 100,000. She wants to give me nothing. And I'm, you know, just, you know, typical fucking. You was the mastermind behind all of this.

I understand. Yeah. What are you doing? What? You think we're going to have. It's your business. Yeah. Yeah.

She's not seeing that. She's not seeing it like that. And that's exactly, that was actually her point. I can't do this. I have to live off this money. You're going to make a million dollars in the next month or so. I've got $700,000. So we argue and she's, we agree on $100,000.

Like I'm saying split it. She's saying 100,000. I'm saying I'll just take all of it. She's like, well, you won't get out of fucking, you're driving in that U-Haul? She's like, with what? You don't have any IDs? Like, oh, we put all the IDs in the storage unit. So she's like, where are you going to go?

In the U-Haul that the cops are going to be looking for in five minutes? And I'm like, I always love it because I go to when I tell the story in prison, guys, you'd be like, you should have killed her. I'm like, I'm not going to ask you that. I'm not killing. I'm not killing anybody. You should have struggled with it, man. Everybody said there.

This is I late. I definitely had. There were some thoughts. And, you know, I'm like, what are you doing? You're not that guy. Yeah, right, right. We end up with, I get $100,000 and I leave.

I go back to, I drive that truck all the way back to Charlotte to pick up my car. Mm-hmm. I get in my car. I go to the Starbucks, a caddy corner from my apartment complex. This is in downtown Charlotte. You ever been to Charlotte? Yes. Yeah.

It's nice. Right? Like, it was nice back then. So go to the Starbucks. I'm sitting there. I get a coffee and I realize that there's two of my apartment complex employees there. And they're like looking at me and they're and I'm thinking, you mind it's like the fifth, fourth or fifth.

And I haven't paid my rent. And I'm thinking, like they probably just put like an eviction notice. Like that's like they're freaking out. But they're not coming up to them. And then one of them, the female, the vaults out the back door. Okay, weird. Guys just stared at me. He gets his coffee, Trey, Trey.

And he's... And I'm... The barista calls mine, I get mine. I walk out. I get in my car. I put the thing in. This was back when they had CDs. How old are you guys?

50. 50. Are you a 50? Yeah. Wow, you're holding up. Well, you got the black skin, though. You got the good skin. So you remember the CDs where they had the CDs, right?

Right, right. don't have any you know you asked you asked you know asked a 25 year old they're like I want yeah so I'm sitting there clip it I'm switching through to get the right playing music right right my my road trip because I'm leaving yeah and I'm sitting there and I got my seat belt on I start I look I'm looking in traffic I'm about the guy walks out with his trays he's standing there and all of a sudden he starts he goes he's right here he's right here and I look in the rear of your mirror and there's two guys running so they had just before they walked in to get their coffee they've been interviewed by the U.S. Marshals.

Wow. She ran to get the U.S. Marshals. He's keeping an eye on me. I get in my car. I'm pulling in. I start to kind of, I'm pulling away.

So that's why he starts screaming. He's right here. Like he's leaving. They start running. I hit the gas. It sounds dramatic. It's not. I was already pulling out.

But like in my mind, I think most people might like, I fish tail down the. I mean, it had posse tracts. Yeah. It had Positacian. I mean, I mean, it had that,

that, no slip, you know, I'm not going anywhere. You know, I think it's fine. It was. It would be great if I could slide sideways and stuff, but that's not what happened. I just punched it and took off.

I drive straight down the road, one mile. I stop at a homeless facility. I surveyed three homeless guys. It was three white homeless guys in their 30s. Like that was hard to find. Perfect. Perfect. I need these guys.

You don't want no black guys. It's not going to help me. So I get their stuff. I go to, so real quick, I go to, I go to Nashville. I go to Nashville. I rent an apartment. I order a bunch of, well, at first I ordered a bunch of those guys' stuff. I rent an apartment.

I get their stuff in. I end up assuming the name Marion Carter. No, Marion, no, his name was, was it Joseph Marion Carter Jr. And I get a driver's license in his name. I get a car in his name, apartment, bank accounts, everything. I start buying houses. I buy like 10 houses. I borrow $3.5 million.

on these houses. Things are going good. I get a girlfriend. She's hot. We're traveling. Of course, I'm traveling. I was traveling with Becky. Like, you know, I've been everybody.

Why didn't you leave? I did. I've been to Jamaica. I've been to Bermuda. I've been to Mexico. We went to, you know, Italy. We went to Croatia. Like, I've been Greece.

You know, we traveled. But, you know, leaving okay. But, like, I don't know how their system works. Like here I'm trying to figure out how I can massage the system to come up with, you know, an identity I can assume and stay here. But I don't know anything about their system. And I'm concerned because you go there and you look into it and you realize like you're okay if you stay in the tourist areas. But most countries and people just don't realize this are dangerous. Right.

And they're not thrilled with the Americans, you know? Like, why didn't you go to Mexico? Because the cops will rob me. I'm not being concerned about the criminals when the cops are going to rob you. So, you know, I expected of them. You've got nowhere to turn. Yeah. And so, you know, there's nowhere to really go that I could think of at the time.

Anyway, we get the money. We're getting, we get the money. I'm building houses. I'm renovating houses. I'm buying houses. I'm borrowing money. I meet this chick. And one day she comes in and she says, listen.

And this is a very condensed version of the story. So she comes in one day and she says, she went online and date line NBC News is about to do one hour special on me. And I went, ah, it's not good. It's not good. So I thought, I- Deadline tonight. Yeah, I got to leave. Matthew Cox.

And it was called the thief of hearts. The thief of hearts. So at that time Being a single I mean being a A single mom Was a big deal It was like a big thing in the media

The single mothers single mothers We have to protect single mothers Right Well three or four of the women that I have dated In their 30s Have kids They have a kid or two kids So he's targeting single mothers

The fuck are you talking Like I'm thinking well what about Janna What about so and so What about these other They didn't have fucking kids Right They just talk about these kids, chicks that I dated that had kids. Right.

Anyway, that's really the only thing that upsets me because the other was, otherwise it was pretty accurate. Yeah. So anyway, I decide I'm leaving. We got to, I'm going to, I start refinancing properties. I'm pulling out cash. I figure we'll go to Australia because Australia at the time had a plan or they, you could go there and you could become a permanent resident alien and they didn't require you to do a fingerprint check through the FBI. They only required you to go to the local police department and pull your record. Well, that went through my hands.

So if it goes through my hands, they wouldn't be asking, if they could do it, they wouldn't ask me to provide it. And keep mind, it's got a little stamp so it looks official, but I can't make a stamp or get a stamp. So anyway, I end up, I'm going to go there. And this is a great thing about Australia, too. If you had to show up with like a business plan and like over $200,000, I'm going to show up with a few million. So I'm going to go there, buy a bunch of rental properties. You can't get a job there, but you can open a business. You can buy real estate.

So I can't vote. I can't take a job, but I can just open a business or I can buy real estate. So I'm going to go there. I figure I'm going to buy a bunch of properties, rent them out. You know, I'll have a couple million dollars. I'm going to make a go of it in Australia. That seems reasonable. Anyway, it's not what happened.

So my girlfriend confides in her friend, friend of hers, who I am. She contacts the Secret Service. Secret Service watches my house for three days. One day I come home, boom, they grabbed me. You know, it was a bad day. Yeah. It was a bad day. It was in the process of going to Australia.

Yeah, yeah. Which, you know, and everybody's like, man, if you had made it, I'd been picked up two years later or something. You know what I was? I don't think that, like, you know, I would have made it and it would have been great and I'd still be there today. I think eventually they would have caught up with me, you know.

But, you know, it's, you know, It's, you know, like I was young and I thought I have to try to make an effort, you know. Yeah. What's the big deal? You got to try. You can do it. You know, and I also felt, I felt invincible. Like, you know, there's, I always say this, that there's, there's, you know, I say it was a double 07 effect.

Like, you, you, you, there's nothing makes you feel better. You know, there's no feeling in the world walking into a bank, providing them all false identities, like all false. Documents, fake this, fake this, fake W2's, face-dubs, ID, everything. And then have them issue you a check for $250,000 and then thank you for ripping them off. Like they were like, you were the best customer to deal with. Well, thank you, you know, because I know exactly what they need. Right. So they're like, wow, you know, this is great.

And then you walk out of the bank. Like you feel like James Bond. Right. Would you addicted to the thrill of it? I mean, I think eventually I was initially it was. it was just the money, right? And then, you know, and I used to, when people used to ask me that, like when I was in prison, so what, you know, I said, well, you know, I needed the money.

I needed the money. But then if you look back and you think about it, it's like, okay, well, the first time I needed that loan to close, then it was you start setting goals like, hey, I just, if I could just pay off my credit cards. But then the credit cards are paid off. Then it's, I just had $100,000 in the bank. But then you got $100,000. Then it's half a million.

I got half a million. Then it's $1 million. Then it's $3. then it's three, then they're just, the fucking lines never, it's, it never stops. Yeah,

by that point, you, I would get caught and get out of it, caught and get out of it, caught and get out of it, caught and get, I mean, it was just,

it was, every time I got away with it, it was emboldening, right? Like, you feel like, this is, I'm unstoppable. Invincible.

Exactly. I'm invincible. Exactly. It sounds stressful, though. Were you stressed out or? And you know, what's funny about that is,

and I know what the appropriate thing to say is, Mm-hmm. it was really like the best time of my whole life, bro. Like, I mean, I'm, think about it. You're, you're, you're, everything I'm doing, it's, you know, cop pulls you over. You give him a fake driver's license or a driver's license. He goes and runs it and says, hey, you don't have to be, you can be a maniac. I drive like, like, I'm insane.

The cop pulls you over. He's like, do you know why I pulled you over? I'm like, I don't, I don't know. And like, I was, I know I was speeding. And, you know, and they're like, yeah, you know how fast you were going. I'm like, depends on how long you've been behind me. You know, I added up to about 95. What'd you get me at?

They're like, 87. Ah, okay, I'm good then. Yeah. And they're like, give me your driver's license. You know what I'm saying? So it's, you can be a jackass because it does, you know, I know I'm dumping this identity in, in a month. You learn how to read people. Oh, yeah, definitely.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think into, I'm a big believer in intuition, you know. And you guys, I know you guys know this. every time I've ever cheated on a chick, she knew before there was ever any real sign. She just knew. And every time every chick's ever cheated on me,

I felt it a week before I figured out, oh, you're fucking your boss. But it was like something. She came home at the same time. She went exactly where she said she was going to go. If I called and checked, the person answered the phone, it was, you could feel it. It's the same thing with like the bank officials.

And I say this whenever I do like keynote speak. speaking engagements, they're always like, how do we fix this crime? It's like, listen, listen to your intuition. I can't tell you how many times loan officers have been like, yeah, I don't, you know, yeah, like they, but they look through the documents, they know something's wrong, they closed the loan anyway. They still closed the loan. They cut me a check for $150,000. And the whole time, they're like, I knew something was wrong. Well, then why didn't you make a call? Right. You know? So, hey, do you think you would have got away with it as long as you did if you were like black? This is going to come out, right?

And it was so funny. Yeah. I used to say this before I got out of prison. It's funny because when I went into prison, like, never really thought about like black and white. And I go for 12 years. Keep in mind, I can't, you know, there's no internet. but we can watch TV like whatever everybody agrees on

you know so you're getting very little media input and then or really any you don't really know what's happening and then I got out and I mean the whole black and white thing is everywhere now like every

it's so it went from me going into prison and it wasn't a big like wasn't a big deal never thought about it I get out and everything's about black and white black white It's so polarized now. And they talk, people talk about it all the time. And it's funny because when I was in prison,

I used to say that I had like the, I think I was, I said I had the three Cs going for me. I was, I was clean cut, confident and Caucasian. And I was just joking around, right? And now I get out like, you can't say that. Like that's not say that. But when I owned the mortgage company, when I own a mortgage company and somebody walked in,

like I want this person to qualify for the loan. I don't care if they're black or white. I don't get paid unless you get. So for you to sit here and say somebody to say, you know, oh, you're discriminating. I don't make money off of discriminating. I make money off of you closing. I don't care what.

I had a chick come in. I remember her name to this day. Her name was Wifini Vines. She came in with a. moo on. She was a lunch lady, but they called her like a nutritionist specialist. She came in with fuzzy slippers on. I mean, this. Get them. Lived in the, lived in the project and Section 8 housing. I mean, walked in, sat down.

Like if you were going to, if you, anybody you were going to look at and say, she ain't paying shit. She's in Section 8. She's barely making enough money. She's got a bunch of kids. Yeah. And I got her alone. I don't want to discriminate against Wafini Bines. I want her to get that loan. Right. So, yeah, she could, I could barely understand what she was saying. I'll tell you something funny. When I went,

At least you're not racist, right? This is true. I'm not trying to be mean. Pattern recognition. You're going to love this. Yeah. This is horrible. So I go, I go to prison.

I mean, I get locked up. The first day I'm locked up. I get locked up. I go to use the phone. Pick up the phone. I don't know how to use it, right? Like I'm it doesn't there's no directions on how to use the phone in prison or in this in this jail and I'm like trying to punch in like hitting zero and I'm I know I I don't really know how it works and it's not going through and black guy comes walking up to me. There's like 17 18 guys in this cell comes walking up. He's like, chawkeye peeps. And I went look what? And he goes chan call you peeps. I'm sorry. You beeps man. John call you beeps man. And I went I'm I started looking around and I and I'm thinking. and he's speaking English.

I know he's speaking English. Right, right. But it's such slang. I've never heard it. It's so bad. And so this white guy comes up who's got horns tattooed on his head. And he walks, tats everywhere.

He walks up, he goes, your people, man. He's trying to ask if you call your people. I don't know what people means. I've never heard the tournament in my life. You know, what your people? And I went, what? And he goes, your family.

He's trying to ask, or you're trying to call your family. I said, yeah, I can't figure out the phone. He goes, looks at the, guy is I got it the guy's eye and walks away and I'm thinking like you are you are not prepared for this right you're not cut out for this right yeah so he shows me how to use the phone so here's fast forward I get sentenced I go to prison I've been around these guys um for let's say two three years at this point I'm in the medium security prison I'm behind two black guys that are talking

and the one guy goes man how you fall and the other guy goes shit niggins fucked up he was over two stacks and a dove you know what I'm saying

and I thought I do know what he's saying a guy snitched him out yeah over a kilo and $2,000 and I thought you gotta fucking get out of here bro you just like that is

complete insanity that I now know. I am fully immersed in the culture and I can have a conversation with these guys. And I know exactly 100% slang and I can, I know exactly what they're talking about. I was like, this is horrible, bro. It's a horrible situation. Yeah. Man.

You did it in 15 years? Yeah. 13. 13. Damn. I bet you've seen some crazy stuff in prison. I mean, I'll have like the, you know, the guys, the, you know, I was in the yard with two shanks and blood on me. Come on, mother.

Fucker. You know, I don't have those stories. Right. There were, like, I was there when guys are fighting, but I always say it's like, it was like I was a non-inemy combatant in a war zone. You guys are fighting and those guys are fighting and this car is fighting. And I'm going to teach my GED class. Like, can you, can you guys, I need to get through here?

I'm just trying not to get it blood on me, you know? And I'm seeing fights like horribly vicious fights. Yeah. But there was, there was never really a time. I mean, there was a, there were a, times when it was it could, things could have gone bad for me. But for example, the short version is, I got 26 years. I did 13. So I cooperated.

I'm a snitch. It's okay. So I, you know, but when I initially got into the, to the camp, I'm sorry to the camp. When I initially got to the medium after getting my time and they sent me to a medium because, I had so much time. You can't go to a low unless you have under 20 years. I got 26 years. I have to go for three years. They give you good time right away, three years off. But I have to do three years in the medium. And hopefully I don't get in trouble. And I get to go below 20 and I go to a low. So I'm in the medium. And while I'm in the medium, an article comes out because the FBI comes to see me about, well, about several things. One of them was a politician that I had bribed.

So. You bribed a politician. Yeah, a black guy. So, and his name was Kevin White. Really? Real name? Kevin White. Wow.

And I had used his name. In one of my scams, I used Michael Kevin White. Because I would see his signs everywhere. And I was making these fake people. I saw Kevin White and I thought, I had to name one of my guys white. Like, I'll name him Kevin White. And I thought, that's too close. I'll go Michael, Kevin White.

So I name him Michael. I go, I get the thing and I do it and everything. And while this is happening, I meet him. He comes by one day knocking on doors for donations for his campaign. And I'm like, hey, what's going on? And he's like, yeah, he's like, you know, getting donations. I said, oh, okay. I said, yeah, I'm a developer.

I own, we own like 100 vacant lots. We're building new houses. of a bunch of i don't i forget how many the fbi i said it was 110 houses but i don't it wasn't that much they lie so it was but it was significant you know let's say let's say 60 or 70 so i tell them that and i said yeah i'd love to get that's kevin white kevin white oh it could have been much worse for him listen to what i'll tell you what happened real quick yeah the fbi shows up so the fbi shows up and they're and keep mine, I was on the run for three years before I get caught. And so you got it's let's say at this point,

it's four years. Sactual limitations for fraud. I mean, for, um, uh, for, uh, like taking a bribe as a, as a elected official is like three years. So they come to see me and they sit down. And so what had happened was when I met Kevin, um, I said, so you're running for city, was it, I wasn't, yeah, city council. He's yeah, I'm running for city council. I said, okay. And I said, look, I got a much of lots. I want their single family lots. If I could get them zone multifamily, they'd be worth a lot more money. And he said, I can get that done. I said, okay. And I said, how much do you need to win this election? He said, I had, I forget, so I know I'm going to botch the numbers. I have the actual numbers like in my book because I still had all the documents. But let's just say, he said, I need,

let's say $15,000. Yeah, let's say $15,000. And how much do you have now? I got about five. Like these things are very easy to win. Like 15, 20, let's say 15. So that's nothing. I'm like 15 grand.

I'm like, so you're telling me that if I give you, you got five grand, if I give you 10 grand, and it wasn't 10, I think it was 12. I think I had to give him 12. I think he had 8. I think it was 20 and he had eight and I had to give him 12 or whatever.

And I said, if you're talking about if I give you that, you think you'll win the election? He said, yeah, he said, right now I'm tied with the other person, blah, blah, blah. I was like, okay. I said, yeah, yeah. I said, absolutely. Let's, you know, I'll get you the money.

I said, I can do that. So I'd already set up his identity. And we were in the middle of refinancing properties in Orlando. Same is a, I didn't talk about this, but it was a whole other scheme. And we're putting that money into the banks and pulling the money out. So literally, what my buddy goes to pull out some money. He drops the money off to me, and I call Kevin White, and he comes, and I give him, I, first I tried to give him, like, cash.

He said, I can't take cash. And I went shit. He said, I can take $500 donations. And he's like, but it's got to be different people. So I spend the day driving around giving people, like, here's $500. Write me a check to this, to this guy, his campaign, his campaign. So I end up getting like $12,000 in checks, right? From my parents, from brokers, from people that all know me.

And I give him those and they go into it. So there's a direct connection to money pulled out of Kevin White's scam going to Matt Cox. He gives it to these people to donate to him. He deposits it. Like it's you're done, bro. Assuming you know about the scam, which he doesn't. So he eventually wins. I end up giving him like $22,000 because he ties that election.

He ties the election and he comes back and needs more money. I give him more money. he wins the election. Before I can get the lots in front, we've got a lawyer, he's going to present the lots, these guys are going to vote. Before I can get there, I take off on the run.

What ends up happening is, so four years later, the FBI shows up and they say, listen, you know, there's some issues with him, all kinds of, and we know that you,

we see all these people that you gave money to, and we've spoken with them, and they said, you gave money and went into his account. And I was like, okay, and they said, so what happened?

I said, I bribed him. I said, here was the conversation. It was that blatant. You said if I get you elected, I need you. Because I even had that conversation with a buddy that was right there. My buddy, Dave Walker, was right there. And I said, let me explain someone.

It's not a gift. It's not a donation. I give you the money. You get my stuff rezoned, right? Like we have an agreement. He goes, absolutely. Absolutely. I can get it done.

I said, okay. So I give him the money. And then he ties. I comes back. I give him another like seven or eight grand, whatever. So he wins. So what happens is this, is that the FBI is asking me about it. And I said, yeah, this is what happened.

I tell them what happened. And they go, okay, well, so that's, you know, you're bribing an official. I was like, okay, well, let's go get them, boys. Like, I want some time off my sentence. I'm sitting here for 26 years. Let's pass some of this shit around. Kevin can do five. Jimmy can do 14.

Let's get this down. Right. And so they're like, statute of limitations is up. Yeah. And I went, oh, I said, okay, well, what do you? There was two FBI agents. This chick's talking to me about other stuff. I'd never seen him.

So this was our first time. I'm like, okay. Well, what? And he goes, well, here's the thing, Matt. He said, you created a fake identity in the name Michael, Kevin White. You know Michael, you know Kevin White. I'm like, right. You set this whole scam up to get money.

And part of that money, you give to Kevin White, you get him elected. We can prove all of that. We can see the money coming out, giving them the money. Because the second, by the way, the second seven grand, I get. I gave him. I gave him seven grand in cash. I said, you run around. I'm not doing it. He just deposited the money. So seven grand. So first one is the checks. The second one is just cash, boom, boom. I get pull it out, stick it in. Same day. And he's done. He's done. He's done. He's done if I'm willing to testify to that, which I am. Unfortunately, the statute of limitations is up.

So the cop says, but you understand this and this and this. And so you see how it looks. I'm like, well, I mean, yeah, I can see that you can see that where I give the money. He said, now, if Kevin knew about the bank fraud you were committing, he said the statute of limitations is 10 years, he could be prosecuted for that. And I was like, yeah, I know, but he didn't know about that. And by the way, I'm saying this because I really want to talk to her because we've got slammed on cases over here. And you just told me the statute of limitations is up. And it was made, it was made very clear by my attorney, don't ever fucking lie to the FBI, to any of these guys.

Don't lie. Even if you think it's in your best interest or their best, don't do it. And I was like, so I'm sitting there going, yeah, but that's not true. And he's like, he looks at me and he's like, and you can tell she feels uncomfortable. Right, right. I think she's a very straight shooter. Right. this guy's not he goes he's kind of like you yeah oh i know i'm thinking i'm with you brother but i think i got slammed dunks over here so i don't have to manufacture anything right i don't manufacture anything yeah so i went i said yeah i said i get it he goes but matt no one would believe that the he said the he said you're saying it's a coincidence nobody's going to

believe that was a coincidence he's like i mean if you if you said that he knew he's like i mean and i went what do you want me to do why And he and so that was pretty blatant of me. And so he's like, no, no, I don't. I know what he was thinking. No, I want you to do 26 years, motherfucker. That's what I want you to do now. You could have helped me out.

It's not like that guy's innocent. Yeah. So he's like, no, no, no. Well, here's what's even funnier about that is. So he goes, no, no, we don't talk about it again. A year later, Kevin White gets indicted. They had an active investigation. He gets indicted for another shakedown that he's doing.

And he goes to trial. He loses it. I think he gets three or four years. So it's like, he was going to jail anyway. If I knew then what I know now, I'd be like, of course, it was his idea. I didn't want to do it. Right, right. You know, he put it together.

Matter of fact, he convinced me to do it. He was, he was extorting me. He said he was going to call the FBI on my other scam. Oh, I would have fucking buried him, but I didn't know, you know. Oh, man. So, yeah, he ended up going to jail. But, yeah. So anyway, eventually, I end up getting down.

I go to the low and then I get my sentence cut twice. Because I ended up being interviewed by American Greed. And I was interviewed by Dateline. And I wrote an ethics and fraud course. So I get 12 years, no. I get seven years knocked off my sentence for that. The government didn't want to do it, but we filed a, we filed a bunch of motions and eventually they buckle.

They give me seven years off. And then the other thing is, to tell you guys this because I know right now you guys are thinking this is a nice guy and I want to set the record straight I want to set the record straight on that so um because I had cooperated against other people but none of those sentence none of those none of that cooperation led to any arrests none of it seems like if I'd known then what I know now I would have said the Kevin thing because none of this this shit didn't pull anything together yeah for me so I end up I did a bunch of bunch of interviews and stuff and we go back to the judge and I get seven years knocked off my sentence. So I get back, but seven years isn't, I'm still got a 19 year sentence. So I'm like, fuck, I get back. I'm walking the compound with this guy named Ron Wilson. Ron Wilson is a con man. Ron Wilson, you'd like Ron Wilson. Ron Wilson was a, he was the head of the sons of the Confederacy in South Carolina.

Really? Yeah. He was an interesting guy. Yeah. He, and he was on the city council, too. So he ran a Ponzi scheme. It's like a $100 million dollar Ponzi scheme,

but it sounds, it's misleading because he actually only lost 57 million of pension funds, retirees, and churches. Those were his favorite. So Ron Wilson- He actually harmed people.

Oh, yeah. He had, I forget how many victims. Because he was just banks. Yeah, well, that's true and not true. Actually, Remember the guy I rented his house These guys if I rented their house They had to hire an attorney

So one guy lost like 12 grand One guy lost like eight one guy So I have four victims But if you add up their restitution It's 30 grand total right My total restitution is 6 million But that's all banks And it's the 30 grand for those guys

So but Ron Wilson Yeah he just he's gutting people So people are moving out of their condos Into their kids fucking spare rooms Like it's horrific And he got a 19 and a half year sentence And but he's cooperating against this co-defendants.

So we're walking around the compound. I just got back from my assent introduction. And as we're walking around, he's telling me, you know, yeah, they're not going to give me anything from my cooperation. And because I tried to fuck me, so we have this kind of common thing. And we're both con men.

So, and I liked him. I liked Ron. So, but, you know, my, that only goes so far. Yeah. So I still have my priorities. So we're walking in the compound and he says, I'm like, why do you keep saying that. Why do you say they're not going to, well, you know, they, they think I hid Ponzi scheme funds and money. I'm like, well, I thought you gave, but you gave them all the money. He's like,

no, I did. I did. But, you know, they, that's what they think. I'm like, okay, well, they would have to find the funds to withhold them that, you know, like, they'd be lying and you can't, but if they can't prove that, they have to give you something. Now, you don't understand. You don't understand. I'm like, okay. A couple weeks later, we're talking this and this. He's like, I'm telling you, they're going to fuck me. I'm like, well, why do you keep saying that, bro. You know? So we walk another week. He says it again. I go, why do you keep saying this? I mean, we'll, I go, no, I go, we'll file with, we'll do the same thing. If they try and withhold it, we'll do the same thing we did in my case. And we'll get, which this guy, Frank represented me.

He was an inmate in prison. Frank will file the 2255. We'll get your time. So you don't understand. I'm like, what is it? And he goes, can I trust you? And I went, probably not. I just got back from fucking like I'm a snitch bro I just got back from fucking you know I'm not playing guys would come up to me all the time like Cox how much time you got I'm like I got 26 years but somebody might fuck up and tell me

where there's a body I could be out of here next week they'd go damn bro it's like that I was exactly like that we're not friends yeah yeah you know so anyway so Ron goes he's like I did put away some money and I'm like okay and I'm like he's like yeah he's like my wife has like I gave her like, she's got like $200,000 in cash.

And she had cash and some like some precious metals. I'm like, okay. Got gold and silver. No, yeah, no, really. This is because that's actually what his, he owned a precious metals company. And so these people were investing in him trading precious metals. So that's, that's what they think they're getting. They're really just buying him shit.

You know, he's like, woo, I got to do this. I got to do that. Yeah. So, and they think they've got money in the bank and he's spending it all. Oh, wow. Um, so I'm like, he's like, yeah, she's got a couple hundred thousand. He's like, my brother's holding like $30,000 for me. This is not much, but he said, my fear is, since he got arrested, his wife figured out he was having an affair. And she's furious. And my fear is she's going to just to fuck me. She's going to go to the, go to the, go to the, it was a secret service. She's going to go to the secret service. She's going to turn that money just to make sure I don't get my sentence reduced. So I die in prison. And his wife was extremely vindictive. So I don't doubt that was possible. But I was like, that's not going to happen, whatever. You know, it's not going to happen. She's not going to do that.

She's already lied to the FBI. She's like, she can't go in and now tell him. And he's like, well, I'd say, you don't know her. She's crazy. Okay. And we keep walking. And I remember thinking, like, is that enough to get me a reduction? But this is what's funny is that my first thought was, my first thought was, no, they

didn't want to give me a reduction when I legitimately had done stuff for it. Like they don't want, they're not, they, I had to fight them. And even when I got up to court, they, they were saying, your honor, give him three years off his sentence. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. You know, I had to argue to get seven. And so I thought, yeah, whatever.

But I had written a memoir about my story. And I wanted to include some things that had been said at my resentencing. So I called my lawyer about two weeks later because she was supposed to send me my transcripts. And I was like, hey, I never got my transcript. She's, oh, God, Matt, I'm so sorry. And this is a public defender, by the way. Yeah. She was, you know, not bad.

So she's like, I'll get it, I'll get it. And I was like, okay, okay. And she goes, so what's going on? I said, what? And this woman never wanted to talk to me. They don't want to talk to you. And she's like, what's going on in there? I said nothing.

She's nothing's going on? She's anything happening? I went, no. And I was like, and then I went, oh, well, listen to this. Look, listen to this. And I tell her real quick, boom, boom, boom. She goes, hold on. I hear, she goes, oh, wow, this is a bad guy.

And he was saying he hid Ponzi scheme. I go, yeah. And she goes, let me make some calls. I thought, okay, you didn't make any calls the first fucking time. So, I mean, she listened to talk about winging it. When she walked into court, she just completely. She didn't have a fucking thing prepared. I don't think she knew my names.

I think she looked at the document when she walked into court with Matt Cox. Matt, hey, look through all your stuff. So what happens is nothing happens like a week later. And I forget about it. A week later, the cop comes up and he goes, hey, he's, you got to go to SIS. That's like their internal security. I'm like, oh, okay. So I go to SIS.

And keep in mind, remember I told you, I had written a bunch of stories. So I used to order guys Freedom of Information Acts. And they would call me in every once in when I'd say, hey, you got this guy's, you got paperwork being sent in for this inmate. And I'm like, no, no, I'm writing a story. And I'd had, I'd gotten some guys in Rolling Stone magazine. I'd option some guys film lights. I'd had a, I got a couple book deals. So they kind of, they know me.

I'm almost like a celebrity at this point because like, this guy's fucking writing books and shit. Like he's selling fucking optioning guy's life rights. Like he's in Rolling Stone. So so I, that's what I thought it was. And, and, but the, the CO calls me and sorry, the CEO calls me in, says, sit down. I'm like, okay, now I think I'm in trouble. He calls the phone. Calls a number.

Yeah, I got, I got in May Cox here. Hold on. Here you got to talk to this guy. And I'm like, hey, the guy goes, I'm agent, whatever. And then the last name was Griffin. Now I made you know, Michael Griffin or whatever his name was. And he said, with the Secret Service, he said, I understand you know, where Ron Wilson has hid Ponzi-ski money.

I'm, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, I want something in writing, which they're never going to give you. All they'll do is they'll give you a letter to say, we'll consider it substantial assistance. And then you do whatever you're supposed to do, and then they go, well, we did consider it, and it wasn't enough.

I've had that happen multiple times. So, yeah, such dicks. So I said, I want something in writing, this and that. So we get on each other's email account, and he starts asking me to ask Wilson, ask him this, ask him that. So I'm inside, cooperating. rating with the secret service

on a guy it ain't a good look bro I mean there's different levels of snitching yeah yeah the jailhouse snitch it's bad it's bad but I was at a I was also at a low at this point yeah so you know not that there weren't bad things happening

but this is this guy's like 60 something 61 62 years old like he's not really a threat but he could if he got it out put it out there I might get shipped or and somebody might fucking walk up and just smash me, right? Like, it's possible. And I don't really want that out there anyway. It's kind of out there anyway, but I've got it subdued. I got it kind of hidden, right? Like, they're not sure. Like, yeah, I don't know, Cox. You went back to trial. He went back to court. You came back with a

different sentence. I won my 2255. It's an illegal sentence. I have a good lawyer. Like, come on. I cut the shit, bro. With the feds. So anyway, so I'm talking to the Secret Service. I'm asking him questions. And one day they contact me and they're like or they say, hey, listen, he's about to get some bad news. Just preparing you. I said, okay. So a day or two goes by and Wilson goes, Cox.

And I'm like, yeah, what's up? He's like, you're not going to believe this. I said, what? He goes, they called my brother and my sister, my brother and my wife into the Secret Service's office. I'm like, okay. He's like, my brother walked in the door, gave him $150,000. And I went, really? He was, yeah.

So me, it was only 30, huh? Right. And then he said, and then he said, my wife walked in. She gave him $350,000. And I went, I said, Jesus, bro. I said, I thought you said, it was like, it's like a couple hundred thousand. He's like, and I didn't think I could trust you. I went, Ron.

We're kindred spirits. Right. It hurts, you know? Right. So. So. You know, whole wreaths behind this shit. So he, so he's like, yeah, I was like, okay, so well, what's that?

Oh, yeah, they're, they're going to reindict me. They're going to indict them. They're going to, I'm like, holy shit. And so here's the thing. There are, there are, there are, there's levels of cooperation. Let's say you get arrested. You're going to, you're going to go to prison and you tell the cops, listen, man, my next door neighbor has got, he's got, he's got a meth lab. Okay.

He was making ice. And they go. And they check and they look and boom, they bust them. You probably get maybe, maybe let's say 20% off your sentence for that, right? It didn't require a lot on you. You just kind of told on somebody and it worked out. Now let's say they say, hey, listen, we can't, we don't know this is true. We can't do anything.

We can't, whatever. We're going to have to put a wire on you. You're going to go in, you're going to make some control buys. Like now you're in danger. Right. So you do that. You do four controlled buys. They get a warrant.

They rush the place. They find the fucking meth. They've got them hands down. You got them on the wire. You're done. Okay. You're probably going to get maybe 20, 25% off your sentence, maybe 30, right? That's good.

The best one is that happens. And these guys say, I'm going to trial. And now you have to testify. Oh, I see. You're getting 30% off your sentence. You're going to get a chunk off your sentence, probably. So when, so Ron says, he goes, yeah, I don't know, I don't know what they're going to indict me.

They're going to this. They're going to, I don't know what to do. He goes, what do you think I should do? And I go, I think you should go to trial because I know they have to call me as a witness. That's what I'm taking to trial. I mean, the smart thing is you're done, bro. Just plead guilty. Like trying to take this to trial.

Yeah, you need to take this to trial. Fuck them, Ron. Fuck them. You need to do that. Like, you get a better deal if you go to trial. you need this like they can't prove anything your wife could have taken that money you they don't know yeah and he's like i don't know i don't know and i'm like i don't know and i'm like i'm pushing hard yeah man up it's time to man up bro what what what what what what choice do you have yeah you're gonna

end up i mean you're they're gonna give you 10 years yeah you know like you're gonna end up dying in prison if at least if you go and you win yeah you get you know you'll at least get the 19 yeah um he doesn't makes a plea, pussy. They actually only give him six months. And what's even funnier is that then of course, so I get five years knocked off my sentence. He gets six months. The brother and the wife get,

they get community service and like one year paper for obstruction of justice. So, and I don't know what he had to think I got charged with obstruction of justice also, but he got six months. And then of course, you know, I get five years off my sentence, I'm out the door. You know, because all this took over the course of years, all these things.

Right, right, right. So I'm out the door, like a year and a half later, I'm in a halfway house. And what's funny is then COVID hits and they let him out. He only does, like, out of his toll 20 years now. He was at 19 and a half. He jumped up to 20. He ends up doing like seven for COVID because he was older. He's older and he's not a threat.

And so they let him out. Wow. These kids are going to catch COVID in prison and die in there. Correct. Correct. And I'm sure his victims are happy that he's out and they don't want they didn't want him. You know, they're upset with him, but they didn't want him to die. You're all 650 of them felt like, well, thank God, you know, it's a good Christian man. Anyway, so yeah, that's, so I got out and I went to a halfway house, you know, and I started a YouTube channel.

And this has been a way, this is the longest 10 minutes. What time is it? Yeah, I said give it a 10-minute version. Jesus. How long would we go? Well, you can't condense that in fucking 10 minutes. That was freaking great. Hey, y'all, we want to talk to you about something really important.

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Yeah. Do you have any remorse for your crimes? No. No. I mean, I know the right thing to say, you know. Yeah. I mean, I know the right thing to say, but it's just like, it's like you guys saying that.

Being on the run. The right thing to say is, man, I was riddled with anxiety. And I was always looking at her. So relieved when I got caught. And I wanted to turn myself in so many times. Come on, man, stop it. Yeah. That didn't happen.

Hey, you heard about Letitia James? Yeah. And her, what they are. I think she, do you know the specifics about the case? Or did you look at it? I know she, I know she lied on the application to say, first of all, anytime you lie on an application, that's fraud. Yeah.

Doesn't matter what the lie is. Hey, you got that clip, Joe? Yeah. Yeah. Listen, this is the specifics behind her case. I didn't shave or nothing. I treated you guys bad. No, you look good, man.

You got the Richard Greer going. Oh, man, I'm rough. I got aged. I got to do something. Oh, you look good, man. Yeah. And you guys are 50? I'm 55.

Yeah, we are. I'll be 51 this year. I know. I look young for 55. Thank you. No, you look great. Yeah. I've seen plenty of 55 years old.

I've seen people from school. Like 40? What the fuck happened to you? Yeah. Oh, I've met guys. They're like, yeah, well, you know, I'm 55 years old. And I'm shaking their hand like, Jesus. Like, and then they're like, how old are you?

I'm like, I'm 55 off. And they're like, oh, and they're looking at me. You can see it in their face. They've got no hair. They're overweight. Their skin's trashed. Yeah, you work out too, right? They look like they've been working in a chemical factory.

Like they work at Chernobyl. Here's the clip. Attorney General Letitia James' office is blasting a federal criminal referral, potentially targeting the AG. The Department of Justice is being asked to investigate after the director of the federal housing finance agency claimed that James falsified records for home loans in Virginia. The referral says James listed a Virginia property as her principal residence in 2023, despite holding office, in New York. Federal officials also say James misrepresented the number of units at a Brooklyn property and previously listed her father as a spouse for more favorable loans. A spokesperson for James released a statement reading, Attorney General James is focused every single day on protecting

New Yorkers, especially as this administration weaponizes the federal government against the rule of law and the Constitution. She will not be intimidated by bullies no matter who they are. joining us for a closer look at the referral is legal expert. What do you think about that? I mean, yeah, I've heard that before. Yeah, I've done all that. And the FBI insisted it was all fraud. I mean, I did time for it.

It seems fair. Yeah. So there's something called owner occupancy fraud, right? Where you say, hey, I'm going to live in this house. Right. And instead of, so if it's an investment property, they say you have to put down, minimum 20%. Right. Sometimes it's 25. It depends on where you rank as far as the other factors that go into loan. But if you say owner occupancy for all or owner occupancy,

hey, I'm going to live there. Well, you get 95% financing. And there's all kinds of programs for that. So I don't know. And here's the other thing. Her adding her father as a spouse, that was probably because of her debt to income ratio. Right. Like she didn't make enough. money on her own, but I can add my father on the loan. But I'm sure that the mortgage roker was, you know, was like, listen, your father has not going to cut it. Like that's not, you're going to have to say your husband because that's not an option. So your father's dad's not an option. It's husband and wife. So most likely that's why she said it was her husband. And she took his income and added it to her income and now she qualifies where they're saying that she got a better interest

rate and that may be true because she got a better debt to income ratio you have more money so we'll give you a better rate i have a feeling it was probably more so um she didn't qualify without him and what's funny is the as far as the um the the amount of units so if you if you get a single family house, that's residential, right? If you get a duplex, it's residential. Triplex residential, a quadplex, that's residential. Five units and up is commercial. So one time, whenever I talked to mortgage brokers and I tell them that I did this, they're always like, oh my God. One time, I had a guy that owned a five unit building. He could not get it, he couldn't get it sold. because of comparable sales, you have to compare apples to apples.

So if you say, hey, it's a five unit, that's commercial. So it's a five unit commercial building. There's no other commercial buildings in this area that are five units. You know, maybe if it was six units, maybe the lender might have been okay with it. There's maybe one five unit and a couple six units or something, but you can't say, okay, well, what about if there's a bunch of four units? Well, those are residential. You can't compare.

There's non-comparable. These are commercial. So what I did was, and this guy had had like three deals or four deals fall apart in the last six months. And my borrower wanted to buy the property. So I had my appraiser come out, look at the property, and I said, I need you to say it's a four unit. And he said, Matt, it's, yeah, I don't. And I was like, yeah, I said, listen, he said, what about the fifth meter, the electric meter? Because it was only on one water meter.

One line. So I went, I said, well, I said, you mean the, you mean the meter that runs the sprinkler system and the lights? And he's like, there's no sprinkler system in lights. I said, there will be when you give me that bucket appraisal. You know? So I said, yeah, I said, he's like, what about the, what about the actual unit? It was like an efficiency. I said, that's just a storage unit, a storage unit.

I said, that's all you have to say. And he said, I said, I'm going to have the appraiser go back on the MLS, say it's been renovated. and now it's a four unit. So that backs it up. Now, he, you know, the short version is he, he did that and I refinanced it. But the long version is he wouldn't do it. He said he wouldn't do it. So I went back to the office and I had everybody pulled the appraisals they'd ordered from him.

Cancel, cancel, cancel, cancel. And he got like 12 cancellations. And then two hours later, he called me up and he said, okay, I'll do it. And I said, okay, he said, will be back on with it to us? I said, absolutely. I don't know why they did that, Steve. That's crazy. They did what?

I said, they're so fucking vindictive. Yeah. unacceptable, I'll talk to him. Yeah. So a couple days later, I got my four-unit appraisal, and I, this guy or this woman bought this property, and that was it. That was 100% fraud. So I think she must have done something similar to that, right?

She probably was trying to buy a five- or six-unit building, and she got an appraisal that said it was a four-unit because there were lots of comparables. And it was much, it's much, much, much easy. to get a residential loan than it is a commercial loan. Very hard to get a commercial loan. So that's probably, and I could be wrong, it may be the, it, I don't, there's no way it's the reverse. Maybe, maybe it was a 12 unit and she said to say it was 14 units or something.

Either way, you, you took a fraudulent appraisal and had, and, and, and gave it to the bank, and you know, it's, you know, it's fraudulent, you know, you can't as a buyer or, you know, the borrower, you can't sit there and say, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, for you to say that, like, this is happening a lot for you. You know, this loan is bad. This one is bad. You're homesteading this property saying you live here, you actually live here. Right. And then she said her dad was actually a spouse. Right. Oh, yeah, yeah. No. And here's the thing, you have to sign those documents. Like, just signing the documents, well, they present those documents to you at closing. You get many, many opportunities to see these documents and review them. Yeah, I remember. So for you to go

to closing, they present the documents, and you can look over them, and then you sign them. You saw that dad is listed as your spouse. Right. Like, you know that. Oh, I didn't even read that, doc, that's, that's, that's, I promise you for not one of her defendants, has that ever been a defense? You know, I didn't read it. You didn't read it. You know, tough. You signed it. Right. So you can't, it's just not a defense. Yeah, it's amazing. She wouldn't have to trump when there was no victim or anything and there's I don't think there was actually any real fraud no and here's the thing is that when they closed those loans for Trump mm-hmm everything was correct at closing what they were saying is my understanding is he went in and he they said how much what's the square footage of this right oh it's 47 I think it's 47,000 square feet okay what's not it's only 35,000

okay well fuck I own 600 fucking properties right like I don't know what it is maybe it is 47,000 square feet if you include this and this, which I was including, you're not including it. Why? Well, because it's not air conditioning. I know many people who will go in and they'll say, yeah, my house is 2,200 square feet. And then the appraiser comes in and says it's 18. And they go, no, it's 22. And they're like, well, what are you, you're including the garage. That's the footprint. The garage is unair conditioned. Now, if you want to air condition, you want to take a vent, cut a hole in the drywall and put a vent in there, I'll give you that extra 400 or, yeah, that extra 400 square feet.

But that's not what's happening. And I've had many, many times I've had appraisals come in and they're not giving it to you. And you're like, okay, well, but the square footage and they'll say, yeah, it's not air conditioning. And I've literally sent somebody out to go and cut a hole and take a duct, the duct work and create that extra room or the, that's outside. Let's say the laundry room that's outside and not air conditioning. and stick a vent in that because we need the extra 100 square feet, and they do it, and the appraiser goes back in and says, yeah, okay, fine, and he changes it.

So there's lots of reasons why he would say that. And first of all, the only thing that matters, the only thing it should matter, and in Trump's case, it doesn't matter. They disregarded it, is that at the time of closing, when we close, I signed all the documents that were in front of me, and it was all, it was all legit, it was all, you know, legit. And it was legit, and I signed it.

That's one. And the other one is that there's no victim. Nobody said I lost money. Nobody said, you know, he fucked us out of this. He used it. And the bank was like, we would have lent the money no matter what. Right. You know, so it does seem, you know, and I mean, I know everybody's 100% sure.

And I like to try and stay neutral. But it does seem like, like, you went after him. And look, if you search through anybody's stuff ever, You're going to find something. I'll tell you right now. Right. And my mother was, she was committing felonies at least once a week. You know what she was doing?

What? She'd get her prescription. And you know how you have the days of the week, those pill bottles or the pill thing? And it's like Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Right. She would take all her pills and she put Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday. She'd take her next pills so that she could just open Monday and take Monday's pills. The moment you transfer pharmaceuticals from an un-end,

labeled bottle to another, you've committed a fraud. That's a federal crime right there. That's it. Mom got to go to jail. You know? Of course, they don't, they're not going to enforce that. But it's like, if you look into anybody, you're going to, and you're going to find something. Trump, yeah. Right. Yeah. They turn our honest mistake into a federal crime. Right. If you had to do it all over again, would you do it? What you did? So I'm going to answer this. I'm going to answer this and hope that I don't tear up. Yeah.

So I know you guys at this point have been like, this is one unemotional psychopath. Right? Yeah. So I wouldn't do it. I would not do it again because, you know, as much fun as I have telling the story and it's funny and I can tell all the close calls and everything. Yeah. The truth is, you know, I had a three-year-old. old son that I abandoned. And three years later, I get caught. Now he's like six or seven. Now I get

sentenced. I'm trying to get my ex-wife to bring him to see me. I'm trying to have a relationship. He doesn't want to come see me because by this point, my dad's been on, there's American greed. There's, you know, horrible, right? And he were, and he, you know, and I didn't ever feel like I had a relationship with him, but I, he definitely felt like that. I had a very loose relationship, right? Like, I was a weekend daddy. And, but it, it traumatized the hell out of him. Right. You know, he has not spoke, did not speak to me. And I would write him letters. I draw pictures. I'm an artist. I draw, I do all the things that you're supposed to do. And he was absolutely not interested. Um, his mother came to see me every couple of months. Her new husband came to.

see me. His name's Nick. I knew him. Great guy. Um, but he, my son wouldn't. And she wouldn't drag him there. And I'll always be irritated about that. You could have forced him to come. She wouldn't. But so he got older. And then when he got older, at some point, he had dug in and he decided that this is a bad guy. And of course, you got to hurt his, his father, stepfather, who's raising him and his mother and grandparents and everybody's saying, he's a good guy. You need to go see him. He's your dad. You want to have him in your life. And he's saying, he's got you guys fooled. And here's the problem is,

is that he's got a powerful argument, right? Like, I can't say, no, it's a misunderstanding. You don't understand. No, you know exactly what happened. And you're probably making the right call. Same thing that most people would say. So I can't even sit here and say, no, he doesn't understand. No, you understand.

I'm a scumbag. I did scumbag things. And now I want you to give me some kind of mercy. you're not willing to do it. And I don't have an argument for that. My father died while I was incarcerated. The icing on the cake for me is that I was just enough of a scumbag to get 12 years knocked off my sentence so I could get out just in time to spend the last three years of my mother's life who came to see me every two weeks in a fucking wheelchair having the guard search her treating her like a fucking criminal coming in so i get out the last three years i'm able to spend with her

i was able to sit with her when she had her final stroke and i was able to hold her hand when she was in hospice and took her last breath that's the icing on the cake for me so You know, I lost everything. I owe $6 million. I get out when I'm 50 years old. I'm a 50-year-old scumbag that owes $6 million that half the people I meet despise me, and the other half idolized me for something that you should not idolize me for. So, you know, would I do it again?

You know, absolutely not. I hate those guys. Oh, it made me the man I am today. Well, I'm the man I am today is a fucking 55-year-old scumbag trying to rebuild his life. So, you know, and I just now started to have a relationship with my son barely. We went to dinner, you know, we fucking horrible dinner. First hour was great. We barely even talked about anything.

Right. And I asked him, do you want to ask me anything? Do you want, you know, he's like, no, I'm good. I'm good. I was like, okay, because he's 26. And he's like, I'm good. And then just as we're done and where I'm thinking, this was good. And we go to get up, he goes, you know, I do have a question.

Listen, I spent the next fucking hour crying like a small child, like inconsolable, like, you know, like just like fuck. Like everything he said for the next 30 minutes was brutal. And it was, and he wasn't, he wasn't being an asshole. He's just like, do you remember this? Do you remember that? And it was horrific. It was horrible.

You know, the things he remembered. the looking, making his mother drive around the neighborhood looking for, for me. Yeah, my son brings up stuff. And I was like, you remember that? He said, I remember all that stuff. I did with your war with kids. I don't even remember it. Right.

But for kids remember all that stuff. Yeah. I mean, it must have, like to me, that must have been traumatizing him. So, you know, it's, you know, and what can I say? I mean, it's not like you're wrong. No, you misunderstood. No, you were, you understand. You did.

You know, I just would. like, you know, I would like a second chance, even though I don't know that I necessarily deserve one, I would like one. So, you know, I, I would like, here's the thing. I look at my life now and I would do anything to go back in time and just be a middle class American. Work at fucking Walmart. Drive a fucking truck, you know, load drive, you know, a hang drive. wall. You know, you know, be what, what is the backbone of this country? I would love to do that. But, you know, it, that's not what happened. You know, I made a bunch of bad choices. And every time I had an opportunity to correct those choices, what did I do? I made a bad, one bad decision after another,

after an every one of those bad decisions was based on, on just arrogance, pure fucking arrogance. I think anytime you found a way to make easy money, quick. It corrupts the hell out of it. It corrupts the hell out of anybody. He stubble to cross. Like money never It was like at your fingertips. It's like power corrupts people.

Money gives you power and it corrupts people. It corrupts everybody. No one's a mean from that. A lot of people that would have been those saying a lot of people would have pursued those. I think probably half the people would. But, I mean, let's face it, if you need money, like what a decent person does is they get another job. They get a second job.

They cut back on their expenses. They move to a smaller house. They tell their kid, you're not getting a private school. You're going to public school. They go to their parents and they ask for money. You know, I didn't want to do any of that. Yeah, but that's the thing. Once you have that taste of money, yeah.

Yeah, no, it's hard to go back. It's next to the impossible to go back. I think it's harder than heroin. Yeah, it's like once you've tasted that life. You cannot go back to... Yeah. I mean, you're doing it now, obviously, but... Yeah, but here's the thing.

Like, I get to ask this all the time. Do you ever think about it? I think about it all the time. Right. Like, I love thinking about putting together a fraud. I love it. Yeah. It's actually comforting to me.

When I can't sleep at night, I start daydreaming about it straight. I never even get to the point where I'm cashing checks. Right. I just straight to sleep. Like, it's that comforting. And, you know, that's a problem. That's a problem. You know, luckily,

yeah. Fucking fat negroes. Luckily, you know, I got out and things worked out very well for me. And, you know,

like not to get spiritual or, you know, talk about or God or anything, because I don't know. What I know is this is that by doing the right things as I got out of prison, things have been very easy for me.

Like by being appreciative of what you've got and by being humble and extremely honest, like let's face it, I've told you a bunch of stuff that, you ain't good. Like trust me, in the comments, it's going to be, you rat snitch mother, you know, it's going to be bad. You don't have any other videos like this. You're going to be like, damn, this is harsh. But, you know, I'm honest. Like I went to the halfway house. I got out.

I lived in someone's spare room. I could have got an apartment. I had the money to get an apartment. But I didn't because I thought, no, you live beneath your means. You'd be appreciative. You save money. You want to start a podcast. You want to do a true crime podcast.

There was no true crime podcast. There was no YouTube. When I got arrested, it had been out for a year. People were putting their home movies on it. I'd never been on YouTube. So the word podcast was invented in 2009. I'd been locked up three years. So the last year or two, I'm going to get out.

are giving me articles talking about podcasts and new guys coming in are trying to explain to me what a podcast is. I mean, I have an idea. So I get out and I'm thinking this is one that I want to do this. And so I go and I live in someone's spare room. Why? Because I have to save up money to get cameras. You know, and your set looks amazing. It is in my living room. It looks amazing. I appreciate it. We're actually, we're going to, we're going to get, we're going to get a big boy set now. We're actually looking at places because, you know, the other day, and in the last, usually I don't, I interview, usually I interview like white collar guys, mostly, and, and former law enforcement, you know, but in the last couple weeks, like, I've interviewed some

more violent guys. And, you know, you're interviewing a mob guy. And, you know, he's talking about executing this person and executing that person and killing this person. And then another guy I'm talking to, he's talking about killing this guy. Like, those have been kind of seeping in. And then the other day where I'm interviewing a guy and and I I assume because he'd only got in 15 years it was like manslaughter or something and he was in the drug game so sometimes these guys will shoot at each other and the guy ended up dying I got manslaughter he got 15 years so I don't really know his story and as he's telling me the story he explains that the guy was trying to set him up to get robbed so he beats the guy really badly the guy ends up on his knees he pulls his gun out the guy starts

saying a prayer begging him not to kill him and he shoots him in the fucking head. He then drags the body into the bathroom and he cuts him up and puts him in bags and disposes this dude's sitting right across in you right here and I mean I'm sitting there looking at him and I look over at Colby and Colby you can see Colby's face is like we're finding a place we're looking we're going to get a place you know my wife's taking a nap upstate you know and the guy was the nicest guy but still you know very nice but still um I'm sitting there thinking, this could go bad. Like, I don't, these guys know where I live.

Right. So you got that fucker in your living room. Yeah. And what's funny is he, that he brought two guys with him, two of his friends. This guy's executed two people. This guy killed a guy too. They've all been in prison for murder. Wow.

And they were all very nice. But you, you know, look, you don't know. You don't know what happens in six months from now when suddenly somebody falls off the wagon and they're doing, you know, some kind of drug. And suddenly they say, hey. I know where there's a guy. Yeah. I never really liked him.

Yeah, never liked him. I know he's a felon. He's got no weapons in the house. He's just soft as cotton. So, yeah. So, yeah, so I mean, but yeah, I got out, did the whole. But it's like this. When I started doing everything the right way, okay, it's like, like, and I'm like, God started

clearing the path. Does that make sense? Things happened very easily for me. And, you know, the videos that I've done, you know, millions of views, the YouTube channel's blowing up, Spotify's, like, everything's happening. And it's working. And it's like, I don't deserve this, you know? And I know you two, fuck. You walk through, I guarantee.

If on the way here, I get to TSA, whatever, I get into TSA, whatever, I get into TSA. Guy goes, yo, Matt Cox. And I'm like, what's up, bro? Another guy goes, oh, yeah, yeah, YouTube. I knew I knew you. And I'm like, yeah, what's up? I go through that. I sit down.

People are walking by and they're looking at you. And then you see them pull out their phone or they're hit. China verify. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or they're like, hey, you're on TikTok, right? I'm like, yeah.

I get here. I get here. I get off the plane. I go to try and get to the passenger pickup. I don't know. I can't find it. I walk outside and I go up to the sky. And I go, hey, man, where's passenger pickup?

And he goes, hey, you're on YouTube. He's, I know you. Another guy goes, yeah, I know you. And I'm like, holy shit. And he's like, yeah, he's like, I'll follow me. I'll take it. It walks me all the way there. Yeah.

And I'm just like, this is insane. You're part of their lives now. Oh, and they know everything. How's Jess doing? They know my wife's name. Yeah. They know where she works. They know we met in that.

I met my wife in the halfway house, by the way. She did five years for a meth conspiracy. She's awesome. Yeah. She was at the same prison I was at. She mowed the yards. So she's on the lawnmower crew. So she's in the women's camp.

I'm in the low. She's mowing my yards. So I've really kind of known her for much longer. Yeah. We just didn't meet till the halfway house. But yeah. So, but these guys know all they know all, you know, they walk, they know shit that you're, you know, it's like, oh, yeah. But the more you talk to them sometimes, it's kind of like, this is, you know, too much stuff.

Yeah. Like you've been watching too many of my bit. There's a lot of stuff on you on, on, uh, on, on. On Netflix, you should probably be. There's a lot of good documentaries on Netflix. They're like infatuated. Yeah. Yeah.

They probably like your personality. You're sharing your story. And they're seeing where you come from and what you're working on. And they probably find it, most to where I'm looking forward. Motivating. Motivating. Encouraging, yeah. Encouraging.

You know what's so, listen, I'm telling you guys right. I've never said anything motivating in my life. And I can't tell you the emails, the guys that will tell you. will tell you like, bro, like your story's inspiring. Like, I stole a bunch of money. I went to prison. I ratted my way out of fucking prison and now I'm here. How is that inspiring?

Like, you need to pick your hero is better. Right. And but, you know, they're like, no, you don't understand. And then they'll tell you, no, I was going through this or I got out of prison or this or that. And they start telling you and you're like, yeah. Okay, I'm going to give you that. You know, that's some people don't, a lot of people that did what you did, they don't really come back from it. Yeah.

I think a lot of those guys are, a lot of those guys are. A lot of them hide. Listen, I can't tell you how many guys that I was locked up with where they're trying to, they're trying to figure out how to hide everything. Like they're trying to figure out how to hide the articles on them, to change their name because remember the name changed? I can't tell you how many guys like, bro, what was the process is your name changed?

Yeah, you embraced it. Yeah, you're working on your next indictment. Like, you know, you should want to get your name change. What are you doing? So, what? So, I need to get back into, you know, trading stocks. It's like, oh, bro. your pumping dump scheme got you here right so but yeah I think uh it's fun I mean it's super fun

and interesting my favorite you know whenever I get recognized I always say it doesn't count unless my wife's there because then I really get to right like my wife what will be will be walking somewhere and somebody will come up and they'll like hey man mad uh can I talk to you for I just want to say hey what's up like hey I'm sorry you know I'm sorry just real quick like like I follow you on all your stuff. And, you know, bro, like your story is like, you know, it's inspiring. And I'll look at my wife and I go, inspiring. And she goes, she's like, she's like, no, I mean, really, you're amazing.

Amazing. He said I'm amazing. And she's like, he doesn't know you. And I'm like, thank you, bro. No, you did the right thing. Thank you. Yeah. Can I get a picture?

Of course. My wife's the same way. She used to be embarrassed to tell people what I did for them. Right. She used to tell me he'd go get a real job. Oh, boy, I've been throwing that in her face all the time now. And she said I was skinny and I was lifting weights. I was a pretty big guy.

It's like, man, you're huge. I'm like, you hear that? He said some huge. Yeah. Same shit you was going through. Yeah. Women. That's the best.

Yeah. Hey, so where can people find your podcast? He wants to get out of here. Um, he wants to get out of here. Um, rebe like a book. See, that's what people follow you. I get it. That's what people follow you.

I get it. You could have been a little smoother, but that's fine. Well, no. Yeah, it's Matthew Cox, Inside True Crime. And it's pretty much like that on Instagram, YouTube, Spotify, you know, all the, you know, all the platforms. It's Matthew Cox. Matthew Cox, Inside True Crime. Matter of fact, you know, you can check the description box and we're going to leave the link in there.

You can go straight through there. You can follow. So, hey, you guys, I appreciate you. Hey, you guys, I appreciate you watching. Do me a favor. hit the subscribe button, hit the bell so you can notify the video just like that. Share the video to anybody that you think might be interested. Thank you very much and check the description box.

Go straight there and subscribe. And please consider joining our Patreon. It's $10 a month. And it really does help Colby and I make these videos. Right. Right? Like, yeah. How hard it was to say that the first fucking hundred times.

Exactly. Dude, you're a fucking pro. Yeah, it's been a pleasure. Yeah. Listen, I, I love you. I love you. Listen, by the way, when I got contact, it's like, hey, the Hodge twins.

I was like, the fuck out of here. I watch these guys shit all the time. Yeah. You know, you and Charlie Kirk. Right, right. Yeah, and I was like, those are those are the two that I probably

watched the most. I mean, you know, like the fresh and fit and stuff, you know, I watch the, they're a little harsh. But I do like, I do like myron. I mean, I like both the guys, but. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I saw you interview with him. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, It's so funny, too, because I'm sure you can imagine how my wife feels. Yeah, I know. She walked in, and I was like, hey, usually, like, if I don't introduce her, then she's irritated. I'm like, I'm like, uh, hey, Myron, I'm like, this is my wife. I said, Jess, this is Myron. And she looks up, she said, and I walked and I was like, oh, like, you can't, I was

like, you can't fake it? You can't fake it? Right, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, mine goes hard on the window. Yeah. So funny. Yeah.

It was a damn good show. Yeah.