Hodgetwins Podcast - Megyn Kelly X Hodgetwins "What Is LEFT Of The MAGA Movement?" | Hodgetwins Podcast | Megyn Kelly

Episode Date: May 22, 2026

Journalist & host of The Megyn Kelly Show, which is on Sirius XM Triumph channel 111 every weekday at noon EST and can also be found at youtube.com/megynkelly & wherever you get your podcasts, Megyn Kelly Joins the podcast to discuss MAGA, the Thomas Massie situation, her recent statments on Iran & more going on in the wild world of politics!Become a Member and Give Us Some DAMN GOOD Support :https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCX8lCshQmMN0dUc0JmQYDdg/joinGet your Twins merch and have a chance to win our Damn Good Giveaways! - https://officialhodgetwins.com/Get Optimal Human, your all in one daily nutritional supplement - https://optimalhuman.com/Want to be a guest on the Twins Pod? Contact us at [e-mail] Free Twins Pod Content - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_iNb2RYwHUisypEjkrbZ3nFoBK8k60COFollow Hodgwtins Podcast Everywhere -X - https://x.com/hodgetwinspodInstagram - https://www.instagram.com/hodgetwinspodcast/Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thehodgetwinsYouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@HodgetwinsPodcastRumble - https://rumble.com/c/HodgetwinsPodcast?e9s=src_v1_cmdSpotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/79BWPxHPWnijyl4lf8vWVuApple - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/hodgetwins-podcast/id173123281002:47 - Republican Party & New “Maga”21:15 - Trump OWNED By Israel? & Muslim Double Standard33:57 - Mark Levin In Real Live38:28 - Rubio & Vance 2028? & Iran War Endgame50:45 - Still Voting Red If We NUKE IRAN?!1:00:34 - Charlie Kirk Killing Conspiracy1:15:53 - Daily Wire Crashing & Burning!1:20:08 - Chud The Builder1:27:49 - Where Will we Be In 2028 After Trump?

I saw my friend on the other side of the street. I was heading to school with the kids. I let go of mom's hand to wave. I had already forgotten their lunches. I ran over to hug her. She came out of nowhere. And then... It stopped.

Sometimes the moments that never happen matter most. Volvo's automatic emergency braking helps ensure a safe ending for everyone. Learn more at VolvoCars.a.com. Pard twins, Pardast. It's going to be a damn good show. Hey, Megan, how you doing? Good, how's it going? Pretty good.

It's been a while. It's nice to see you again. I know, it's been too long. Yeah, you're aging backwards. Oh, thank you. Just a little laser. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry I couldn't be with you in person.

That would have been super fun. I just haven't gotten out to Vegas. in like three years. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, whenever you're out here, let us know, we'll make room for you. I will. I would love that.

That would be so fun to do it in person. Yeah, man. Yeah, we need to get Megan in here. Good times. That's what I call a strong woman right now. I do like to gamble, so I'm going to have to prioritize that. I really have to make that trip. And then I just found out that Andre Agassi lives out in Vegas.

Do you know that? Yeah, the tennis player. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I just started reading his memoir. I'm like 15 years late to it. I'm kind of laid on, damn, what's his name?

I'm having a buying moment. Charlie Shane, I had him on our show and I didn't even watch his documentary. Boy, that was stupid. Yeah. Still do it. He's so open in it. It's somewhat disturbing how open he is.

Yeah, right. I know. He's like worse than I am. Yes. He's worse than all of us. Yeah. Really good guy, though. Yeah, really nice guy.

Yeah, love him. Hard to believe he, you know, someone like him of his stature has a person out of like that. I know. It's, it's hard to believe he hasn't been completely kicked out of Hollywood, but he's so talented. Yeah. It's, you know, they couldn't. He's just too good. It's like trying to kick Robert Dowdy Jr. out of Hollywood.

Like, right. They're worth it. And he would used to be in so much trouble. Robert Downey. And like, totally owns it. I mean, he goes, like, in his book and in that documentary, He goes to the dark places. He doesn't hold anything back.

You almost wish he held a little bit back. Yeah. I got to see it now. He actually said it ruined his book sales. The documentary. Oh. Yeah, because you already know everything. Yeah.

Yeah, I can see that. It might not have been the best marketing scheme. Right. Yeah. So we ready to go, Joe? I'm rolling. Oh, you're? So I just all started.

No shit. All right, so we got a damn good show for y'all. We got Megan Kelly in the house. How you doing, Megan? I'm so good. How are you guys? Doing good. Doing good.

You know, when I see you, Megan, I think of, that's what a strong woman looks like. Yeah. Thank you. Are you blessed you, Megan? Megan, how do you feel about the current state of the Republican Party? Depressed. frustrated, like hopeful that they're going to find some way to turn it around because if we don't, what are we left with? You know, it's like, I don't, I'm registered and independent and I have

been for the last 20 years. But given the two-party system, it's clear to me that Republicans need to win. And even now with them in disarray, I'm like, oh, you know, it's awful. And I have voted for Democrats for president in the past. But I look over at that team and they, they want to chop off young boys' penises. So it's a no, you know? So you're, you kind of are left more blackpilled these days, I think, where you're like, F these guys. You know, I don't wanna vote for either one of these guys

because everybody disappoints you. And it really does feel more than ever like the Uniparty these days where it's like uncertain issues, for example, foreign excursions, they're the same. And you know, big pharma, they're the same. And you look at what's happening at, you know, them taking control over at H. and some of the RFKJ initiatives, they're the same.

It's like big money is what controls everything in Washington. And so like you can make a little dent here and there and you can feel hopeful here and there. But in the end, is there much to feel hopeful about? I got to be honest. I'm not feeling that way these days. I'm not hopeful. Like when Trump was on the campaign trail, he was talking about draining the swamp. Did you think it was going to be Thomas Massey and Marjorie Taylor Green and now Bobbert?

Yeah. I never believed he was going to dream a swamp. That, like, I didn't believe most of Trump's promises. I don't believe most of these politicians because I've just seen too many of them come and go. It's, you know, I was like in the media position to kind of like the queen of England, I guess now the king, were like, but the queen was there. She was on the throne for all those decades. And like the prime ministers came and went and she remained.

And so I think overall that time she amassed a bit of knowledge about like who to believe, what kind of nonsense would be spoken to her and so on. And I think that's ideally the way you are as a member of the media. You know, you can't get too enthralled with any one of these guys because they will exit stage left at some point and you'll still be there trying to maintain a relationship with your audience. So I never believe that stuff about Trump and the swamp.

I did believe that he'd close the border and he did. I did believe that he would do something about the trans insanity. And he did. And I did believe that he absolutely would not get us into a foreign war. And he did. So it was a massive betrayal. But I have to be honest, I didn't expect the corruption to be quite as, you know, widespread as it's been. And like the self-dealing and the lining of his and his family's pockets.

Like, that's been a little shocking. Talking billions of dollars. And I just didn't expect Trump to be so disrespectful of his base. Right. Right. Well, you know what, Megan? I got to push back a little bit because, you know, you know, Trump didn't take a salary while he's, He's president, so I don't know what you're talking about.

Right. I mean, you look at like across the board of the Trump family. I've never seen a family get so rich off of a presidency. Right, right. And it happened at the same time as we now have a Supreme Court ruling that basically says any official act he takes while in the White House is protected. Right. And those two things are, you know, seem to be giving him some sort of a hall pass that could

very much get abused. I don't want to, you know, say he's crossed the line legally because I actually have. haven't taken a close look at that, but, you know, he's done a lot that pushes it right up to the line. And I just don't think we want our presidents or their families getting rich off of the presidency. And I really want to know more about all these trades that are happening on Iran right before he makes the announcements. Like, this is not the way it's supposed to be. This, even one of those would have caused a massive scandal 12, 13 years ago. You know, we shouldn't be so far afield that like these obvious ethical questions get skirted past with just a shoulder shrug because it does

matter. Right. Are you shocked at how loyal the MAGA base is to Trump? There's no pushback whatsoever. And then they attack people like us and you and everybody else's that's being objective about the situation? Not shocked. Not shocked.

No, I've seen, I've seen, you know, the Fifth Avenue rule implemented many times with Trump. You know, of course, I was on the receiving end of a lot of very pointed Trump attacks 10 years ago. And everybody thought, oh, these attacks, you know, he's calling her a bimbo. She's the number one rated show on Fox News. That's going to drive his numbers down. It did the opposite. You know, his base really is his. And I think it's disrespectful to call them cult members.

But they do have the same kind of loyalty as that, where it's like in Trump, we trust. and he can do no wrong. And I get that, you know, they've been burned by a lot of other politicians. They felt like Trump got them at a time when everybody was ignoring them. They feel a deep sense of loyalty. And so I'm not surprised. I do, however, think it's interesting that the size of that, what's now MAGA? I don't even know, like MAGA is not what it was.

Maga is now this very, very small group of Trump diehard loyalists who have to love Mark Levin. And so that's by definition, an incredible. increasingly tiny group. And they've upper limited, basically, thanks to Trump's own definition of his followers. And it's a small group. So I guess I've been surprised to see how quickly it's shrunk down to something less formidable by far than it used to be.

Yeah, when I look at the Republican part, I thought we had learned that lesson with the prime administration of George Bush. But now that I looked at Trump, I see George Bush 2.0, the money he's made, the new war he started. And there's absolutely no pushback. It's like his base is the same people that supported the Iraq war. And it's like they haven't learned their lesson. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's stunning to me that the people who voted for the man who said over and over, not only no new wars, but no war with Iran, no Middle East wars. And specifically over and over said Iran and also said the Democrats are going to get us into a war with Iran. Yes, he did. That the people who voted for him. That was not a small thing. That was not a throwaway line.

That was a massive part of his campaigning and his promising that those people on a dime were like, yes, we're pro war with Iran. Yes, Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon. We all know that that's a lie. It's so obvious that that's a lie to get us into this conflict, that they were not on the verge of developing a nuclear weapon. I mean, truly, you don't have to do a lot of fact checking to figure that out. Trump's own intelligence agency said they're not.

They're nowhere close. The IAEA, there was no one. other than Israel saying they're on the verge and they'd been saying it for years. So like you'd really have to be willing to delude yourself to go along with that. So it's been shocking to see how many people who, to whom that seemed to be important, just immediately pivot to, no, it's no longer. And same on Epstein. Like it's been shocking to see the same group that's been like, we need answers on Epstein.

There's a cabal that gets protected. You know, finally Trump's going to get to the bottom of it. As soon as Trump shocked us all by coming out. and saying, Epstein, who cares about Epstein? They all turned on, yeah, who cares? Yeah. And there were guys like you and like me and other, no, we do still care, that some of us do still care. Yeah, do you think Thomas Massey's loss proves that the Republican base does not care about holding pedophiles accountable? Yeah, that's interesting. I just don't think that was front of mind. I think it was the Israel lobby that got Thomas Massey defeated. And, and,

And I think that voters of Kentucky were probably moved by the massive ad campaign that was unleashed against them. You know, they were, the Israel crowd moved in, APEC and the Republican Jewish Coalition and Miriam Adelson and, you know, all these big Jewish billionaires who were not keeping it secret that they were funneling money into this campaign. Creating ads that made Thomas Massey look like a sex pest. Right. that made him look like he was against Trump on virtually everything, whereas he voted with Trump, I think, 91% of the time. So I mean, overwhelmingly positive,

but on a couple things obviously was true to himself, you know, as he had been all along. And that hadn't been a problem with the voters at any time prior. So I think that money went a long way and people are living their lives. They're not like us who are like in the news all the time, following the latest developments.

They're working. They're raising their families. They don't have the time to do that much with the news. So they can be misled by these ubiquitous ads telling you everywhere what a turn coat Massey is, then he's turned Democrat now. And, you know, it wasn't true. And there was an agenda behind it. And those donors got their way. So I don't know if it was about the pedophile thing, but I definitely was about the Israel thing. Do you, how should I ask this? I think the Massey situation and exposes what kind of leader Trump is. Tell me if you think I'm right or wrong. It looks like to me

as a leader, instead of placing around him, people with constructive criticism, instead he places seek offense around him instead. That's what I think Trump is as a leader. What do you think? 100%. I completely agree with that. And that's how he's always been. And that's why the ones who last are the ones who are the most loyal. And I have to say, you know, it's unfortunate because it's spreading. It's one thing to make your inner circle that way. That I don't think that's what creates a great leader.

I do think you should hear dissenting points of view. But it's another thing to then take that beyond your inner circle and require it of everyone in your party and their representatives. You know, that there can be no dissent. You know, look at how Trump has turned, for example, on Tucker. You know, obviously I'm in there too, but Tucker was very close with Trump, much closer than I ever have been. And campaigned for Trump and was actually a very critical voice in support of Trump. And the only thing he was really pushing Trump on, you know, where they were split, was don't, don't go to war with Iran.

You know, please don't do the bombing campaign in June. He got overruled. He stayed loyal to the president. And then please, please, please don't launch this war. This is an Israel war. Don't do it. And Trump heard him out, to his credit. Trump did allow that, you know,

POV to come into the Oval Office and he overruled him. And then Tucker was very critical of it, but wasn't saying, you know, now we need to completely go against Trump. Now Trump's wrong on everything. He was very critical on Israel. And Trump completely wrote him off as though he were public enemy number one and continues to do that.

And I just think that's just, it makes no sense. it's so short-sighted. You can have critics. You know, it was Ronald Reagan, I think, who said, you know, if somebody disagrees with you on 10% of the, 10% of the time, or maybe it's 20% of the time and agrees with you 80% of the time, then that's an 80% friend. It's not a 20% enemy. It's an 80% friend. Focus on the stuff that you agree on, build coalitions, you know, use people, if you're a politician, for what you can. And he should be using Tucker. There's no, there's no valid outcome to alienating a guy as powerful as that for Trump, but he just requires absolute loyalty on every issue. He doesn't care. He doesn't care how loyal you've been.

He doesn't care what you've done for him. I could say the same about Alex Jones, who backed Trump completely in 15 and 16 when nobody wanted Trump in the Republican Party. Right. And it was like just on a dime, you know, he loyalty only goes, one way with Donald Trump, and it's toward him. He will never, he will never show it toward you. Right. Thomas Massa made an interesting quote that we shared on our Facebook the other day. He said if legislators always vote with the president, we have a king. Yeah. Do you see Trump as a king? Because anybody that has just one iota of dissent, he pretty much banished them. And everybody around him that, you know, steps away from him, they end up

getting prosecuted and going to jail almost. I mean, it feels like Trump is a king. Or they get bounced out of office. Right. You know, or they get, they get bullied out of office or, you know, I mean, look what happened in Indiana with those state lawmakers. They weren't even federal who wouldn't change the redistricting laws in Indiana. Trump basically swooped in there and made clear he wanted them gone. Now they're gone. Thomas Massey, gone. M.T.G. gone. Yes, threatening Bobert now. And he can do it. you know i didn't like cassidy but he's gone because of trump too um it's cassidy deserved it actually is it's sending a message you know it's like the way the mob kills the one rat and then the other mobsters don't rat after that you know it's like you don't have to

kill them all just have to kill a couple of examples kill in quotes right right and that's what trump is doing so he's got complete control over the party at a time where he is doing some corrupt things and some other, I don't know what he's doing exactly. I just know it doesn't look great, and he's getting rid of all dissenters or questioners. So I think Trump actually, when it comes to the whole Thomas Massey thing, I think we use, Trump is the scapegoat. I think Israel got rid of him. They spent over $35 million to get rid of Thomas Massey. I mean, sure, Trump helped. He endorsed the other guy, but $35 million in misleading ads goes a long way. in a jurisdiction that normally would see,

if it had a half a million dollars spent on your average race, it would be a lot. So this was 32 million in a district where normally it would be about 500,000. I mean, that's insane. That's crazy. And then did you see the victory party? Yes, yeah, yes.

Okay, so first of all, we had, I think it was 40,000, more votes in this race than we had two years ago. Okay, so 40,000 at least, I think it was slightly more than that. That's a lot of new votes to come into one district in Kentucky. A lot of more mail-in, it's a little sketchy. I mean, I'm not conspiratorial, I'm really not by nature, but that's a lot. And then you look at the victory party, no one was there.

Like literally nobody was there. That's because- I do my podcast from a little studio. where it's just me and my assistant Abby, I think I had more people in my cottage than they had at the at the victory party for Ed Galrain. Yeah. And like it was the Massey headquarters were completely packed. That you could see is actual grassroots support.

Right. Like who is backing this guy? Well, Gowrene's voters, they were in the nursing home. Yes. Boomers. That's true. Yeah, because I seen Massey's base there when he was giving this concession. I was like, wow, that's the feature the Republican Party right there, you know?

And Gowrian is like a relic of what the Republican Party currently is and is slowly dying and fading away. No pun intended, yeah. Okay, exactly. So it tracks perfectly. I'll tell you, so my friend Brett Baer, with whom I co-anchored all the big political events at Fox. Right, right. He has a book out and he posted a photo of himself going on his book tour. And this is not a rip on old people.

I love old people. I hope to become one someday. Right. Be too, God willing. But everybody, literally everybody in the background, there were a lot of people there, everyone looked like they were in their late 70s or 80s. And there's nothing wrong with being old, but it was just a testament of who the base is on Fox News.

And it backs up all the stats that you see, which is it's an over 70 crowd at a minimum. I actually think it's well over 70. And that's fine, but that's who's controlling. the party right now, the Republican Party, because there's a massive split between, and I say this using the word intentionally, the elderly and the people who are under 55 in the party. Because it's like, it's not even just under 60. It's like under 65, under 75 that are starting to trend away toward, away from the neocon view of the world. And who does that leave? it leaves the Fox News audience.

That's who's still very much in the Trump camp. That's what Trump watches all day. That's what older Republicans watch all day. All day. They turn it on and they don't turn it off. And I'm not criticizing. I used to be the beneficiary of it. Completely.

I get it. But what you're seeing now in a way you didn't see back when I was on Fox News is a stark divide between the younger Republicans and the elderly, not even just the older, but the elderly Republicans. And that elder, group votes and the younger you are, the less likely you are to vote. Right. So, you know, in a way the younger Republicans have only themselves to blame in the

races like Massey's because if they don't, you know, you've got to get your assy out for Massey or you're going to get a lot more results just like this one. Right. Where the old people vote because they want their Social Security and they want their Medicare. You should have handled his campaign. Get your assy out for Massey. He don't want it, Peter Hart, you. Get your assy out for Massey. People like the rhyming. Yeah.

Right, right. I didn't think I would ever say this, but Trump is bought and paid for by Israel, right? Is that fair to say? I'm sorry to see it that way, but, I mean, it's tough to argue with you. I've got to be honest. Like, Trump has taken $200 million from Miriam Adelson. Yeah. She's made hundreds of millions of dollars of campaign contributions to him.

She's put $100 million into the White House ballroom or pledged to. She is a bottomless pit of money. And she has one issue. And it's not American Jews. I'm with the neocons on the protection of American Jews. I don't want to see American Jewish citizens harassed or bullied or not be able to make it across campus because they're wearing the yarmica. That stuff was bullshit, right?

what was being done to them right after 10-7. I felt nothing but empathy for them. This is something different entirely. This is about Israel. Israel, that's her issue. That's a foreign country, okay? I don't care about them. I care about my country.

I don't care about Israel. I'm sorry, I don't. Like, I was fine with it when I was on Fox. Like, okay, fine, we like Israel, we get it. It's the only democracy in the Middle East. Yeah, it's fine. We're supposed to cheerlead for them. I got no problem with them.

I'll do it. But now what we've seen is that support of Israel, seems to mean our guys are going to die. Like our men in uniform and women in uniform are going to have to die or risk death and possibly even get drafted. Now I'm raising three children who are approaching draft age who could have to go fight a war for Israel. Hard no. And so if Israel just kind of kept his house in order and kind of did its own thing as it its defenders will claim is its goal and its approach, it's not true. That would have been one thing. But they are, 100% the reason that we bombed Iran in June and then we launched this war. Marco Rubio told the truth when he said it was because of Israel. Benjamin Netanyahu did make the case to Trump seven times at the White House. He'd done it with every other president in modern history, all of whom saw through him. But not Trump.

Trump fell for it. You know, you're going to be a hero. Venezuela. Look how well it went. you were universally praised the June strike. You got in, you got out. Everyone's going to praise you as having taken out this terrible leader. You know, the Ayatollah, he's above ground.

We've got the information on this specific date. Meanwhile, Obama came and he was like, they told me that same stuff. But I knew, I knew Quagmire awaits and didn't do it. And he's probably telling the truth because they say that they've done this with every president who's been there. So I just think that there's no denying that Miriam's donation, and those of some very, very powerful billionaires who are Israel firsters, not to mention the push he got from people like Mark Levin, and not just Jewish Americans like Levin and Shapiro,

but Christian Americans too, like my old pal General Jack Keen, my old pal Mark Tison, Lindsay Graham, there's Mike Lawler. Like there's a lot of Christian Zionists who are extremely pro-Israel who helped push him into it. And he fell for it all, hook, line and sinker. Do you think, Megan, when we say pro-Israel, do you think that's more of a euphemism because there's a deep hatred for people of, you know, Muslims. I found that on Facebook. I find it when I'm talking to people. People have a deep hatred and fear of people of the Islam faith. I think that one is complicated because they did commit in 9-11. So, you know, we all live through that.

if you're of a certain age, you have an adult memory of experiencing that, and you know exactly who did it. You know, it's like, I remember who it was. It was mostly Saudis. And they were Muslim, and it was part of a Muslim holy war against the United States. Now, it's more complicated than that, though, right? Because one of the things that they were angry at us for

was our foreign interventionism, like in the Middle East, like thanks to our relationship with our friend Israel. You know, I mean, I'm not justifying in any way, shape, or form their motivation for what they did. I'm just saying, like, if we're going to be honest about the foreign policy picture, it's more complicated than just Muslims who hate us for just who we are, you know, which was the lie that was sold and that I believe for a long time. Just like, because we're pro-democracy, just because we love freedom, that was actually propaganda and it's not the full picture.

So there is a reason to have some suspicion about like the more radical Muslims. And radical Islam is a scourge, a scourge. Right, right. But I think too often we've conflated, and I've been guilty of this myself, that radical Islam with just Islam. Right, right. And that's not right.

Like I actually have Muslim friends who are absolutely, totally lovely, and have no designs on jihad whatsoever. They raise their families in a way that actually bears a lot of resemblance to how we Christians live. You know, in a God-fearing way, in a way of where you observe your faith,

a way in which you don't want weird, woke ideologies, finding its way in your child's classroom. You know, there's actually a lot in common. And I think those people actually have been targeted by some people who are extremely pro-Israel and kind of lumped into the radical Islamist sect in a way that's unfair and actually kind of dangerous to them. And I think I've been guilty of that

and I've kind of been talking about it and thinking about it a lot lately because it's a long story, but the short version is, I've always been very pro-Israel And I don't think I paid enough attention to how I was being manipulated by fellow people who are extremely pro-Israel on the question of just Muslims. It's not to say I'm pro-Islam. People are like, oh, you're a jihadi now. Okay, stop it. Right, right. I actually don't think that the tenets of Islam are consistent with the way we need to govern in the West. I don't. I don't think they're, I think it's too close church and state. I don't think they're pro like women and equality for women.

There's some other things too. But that doesn't mean I have objections with regular Muslims living their lives peacefully here in the United States. And I think too often the same crowd that wants to lecture us if we don't see anti-Semitism everywhere, has zero concerns about what's happening to those folks. Exactly. As a result of just lumping them all into the same bucket. Right. The reason why I bring that up is because we have a representative in Florida right now. His name is Randy Fine.

He says some very despicable things about Muslim. And then Tucker went on stage at Amfest, I think it was, and he spoke out against the hatred that a lot of Republicans have for Muslims. And I thought it was honorable of him to even mention that, being on that stage to say that, hey, we have a problem with people just hate Muslims just because they're Muslims. I'm looking for the right words for Randy Fine. I think technically the term is fucked hard. I can't stand him. He is a disgusting, filthy human being. I just find him so gross.

The things he tweets and, you know, says so casually about what's happening in Gaza, about any Muslims whatsoever really projects nothing but bloodthirsty, that he's a bloodthirsty guy when it comes to Muslim death. It's disgusting. He's actually one of the main people I'm thinking about, what I'm talking about, you know, what the ardently pro-Israel crowd thinks about Muslims. and wants us to think about Muslims. Whatever he wants, I don't want. You hear him talk, it's just like, he's lost all care for humanity. And I say this as somebody guys,

like when 10-7 happened, it was so awful. And I cried on the air, and I talked openly and still would about what was done to the Israelis. It was heartbreaking. And I was very, very defensive of Israel for months on its retribution campaign, because look who we did after 9-11.

We would have done the same thing and we wouldn't have been proportionate about it. We would have and did unleash hell on the people who conducted that operation against us. So I feel like I gave them a long, long leash. But dude, we're two years into it and there's nothing left of Gaza, it's been carpet bombed,

and tens of thousands of civilians, children, women, elderly, and Christians are now dead. And then the beginning, the story from the Israelis about like, oh, we dropped the pamphlets and we never try to kill a civilian, but a couple might get caught inadvertently was working for me. I was like, okay, I get it. We killed civilians too in Afghanistan and Iraq, not intentionally, but war is hell. But you can't use that two years in when you continue to carpet bomb an entire city. And now they want to extend the campaign to Beirut. So it's like, even if you're ardently pro-Israel, if you open your eyes to

their conduct, you start to get a little questioning on what they've actually done. If you're paying attention, not Randy Fine. No. Oh, hell no. And I think Tucker was one of the first on the sort of more established right to start talking about Muslims because he's got actually a lot of Muslim friends in the Middle East. He's been there many times. You know, nothing will humanize someone you've been demonizing for you quite like knowing them, you know, like spending time with them. And when I was on the air of Fox, I used to talk about my friend Ify all the time, who's in New York and is a young mom

and has four beautiful children. And she doesn't want them to get targeted because Randy Fine is saying he'd much rather have all the Muslims kicked out of New York than all the dogs, right? Like it's like, okay, first of all, the Muslims are not trying to kick out all the dogs out of New York.

Right. That was one lunatic who said something stupid. And second of all, just who would talk about, like Muslims as a group like that to sort of say, like, get them all the fuck out. Like they're lower than canines to me. That's just like, that's gross. I think about my friend and her four little babes. And I think you're a disgusting human and you are what makes me proud to not be a registered Republican. Right.

I think when I look at both sides and I don't condone any hatred towards, you know, people of the Jewish faith as well as I don't condone, you know, hatred of the Muslim. Muslims, but don't you think there is a double standard right now? It's like when I look at Randy Fine, when I think of anti-Semitism, he's the epitometism. He's the epitome of anti-Semitism. He says the most despicable thing about Muslims who are also Semitic people. Yeah. Oh, yeah, he, I don't understand why it's not a bigger story, like the things he says and the things he does. But let's face it, you're never going to see a Mark Levine monologue on this. this guy's extremity when it comes to this issue, right? Because the truth is, there's a large collection of people who agree with Randy Fine and actually see him as kind of a hero. You know,

you're not going to see long editorials on these right wing websites, the right wing ones, who will take down Tucker Carlson, they'll devote pages and pages of ink to how evil Tucker is, but they'll give Randy Fine a complete past. It's like, well, do you care about humanity or don't you? Because Because personally, I actually do believe that Israelis were not only murdered but raped on 10-7, and I'm deeply upset about that. But I actually have real questions about what the IDF has done to the Palestinians in its jails is too. And I don't think it's for Bauden to ask hard questions about how far that went and how widespread

it was. Like I, there's a difference because you can say whatever you want. And I know this. You say whatever you want about Muslims. And you're not going to get that kind of blowback. You say anything about Israel. Now, I'm not talking about American Jews here. I'm talking about Israel and its behavior in the conduct of war.

And you will get a boycott campaign against you. You will get the online bots completely harassing you. You will get American citizens who have registered as foreign agents for Israel unleashing an AI campaign against you. It is, it's effed up. There are certain things you can touch and certain things you can't. And you learn the hard way that Israel is in. the second category.

That beef you have with Mark Levin, it's so funny to us. What was he like when you worked at Fox? Angry. Yeah. It's pretty much been his thing. I mean, we used to joke like, oh, Mark Levin, he's angry again. Shocked. You know, we always thought he was very, very smart and very, very angry.

And that worked for Reagan. That worked for radio at that time. You know, it was like, the only reason Mark Levin has a radio career is because Rush Limbaugh made it possible. And basically what happened was Rush, Hannity, and then they folded in Levin, got a monopoly on conservative radio,

and kept everybody else out. They colluded the three of them, Hannity told me this personally. Wow. That they colluded to keep out people who they didn't want. And they built up Levin into something and Roger Ailes once told me,

he was like, you know, that angry stick works in some corners. And that's really what he leaned into, just like his natural unhappiness and depression and his spitting mad nature over everything. So there was a market for it. Not on television doesn't work as well on television. Right.

You know, like sometimes O'Reilly would do the angry man thing, but overall O'Reilly was kind of more of a happy warrior. Like O'Reilly would smile. O'Reilly would make jokes. O'Reilly could laugh at himself. You know, I know, because I knew Bill well when I was there. So he didn't, he didn't do that. Levin never understood that, that like on television,

you do need to smile every once in a while. Not everything can be in 11. You're gonna exhaust the audience. And that's why he always failed, like he never had ratings. He had Sean Hannity mostly building him up. And that's kind of how it was. He was kind of like an ogre, you know, around the halls with the shoulders up like this,

and kind of down the hallway, and you'd kind of be like, I'd be like, oh God, don't like Bruce Banner. Don't make him angry. You won't like him when he's angry. It was all the time about every single thing. And with me, it was actually crazy because I liked him. He came on to promote his book on my current show.

And I puffed him up. I said very nice things about him, which is what he needs by the way in order to be in any way, talk to. You can't have a conversation with a guy unless you give him a little puffery first. Oh, wow. He's kind of like Trump.

Yeah, actually. So we did fine, but like even with me liking him and being nice to him and being ardently pro-Israel at the time, he was still like a fucking powder keg. You had to be like, oh, you know, you had to be handled. Really? Because he's such an angry dude. And you see it now, you know, for yourself every Sunday, he goes on the air. How tall is he?

Not very. And plus he's got the hunched over things. He's got like the, he's got the thing that like really tall people will do that they don't want to be that tall. girls in particular right only he's not very tall but he he does kind of walk around like this like there's no neck oh geez he's he's hideous nazi nazis neo nazis yeah well don't feel bad it worked on me i bought like five of his books so yes because that's the same thing you were being fed mark levin by sean hannity and rush limbaugh like the gods of conservative radio and and legitimized, you know, by him.

And he didn't make Israel his thing every other night. You know, like that's, I think, a more recent thing. We think we kind of knew where he stood on Israel. And by the way, in my entire time at Fox and my entire time, you know, closer to the Republican Party, that there was no downside to that. There was zero down. Like the Republican Party in Israel were like this. And that's why you have so many statements by so many politicians,

Ted Cruz and others, like there's zero daylight between me and Israel. You know, like, I have 100% voting record with APEC. There used to be zero downside to that. I don't hold that against politicians. I do hold it against them if they're not reassessing because Ted Cruz isn't there for Ted Cruz. He's there. And this isn't about Ted Cruz.

I'm actually friendly with Ted Cruz. But I'm just saying, like, politicians in general, you're not there for you. You're there for your constituents. And if you've got like every Republican under the age of 65 now begging you to reconsider this close relationship because they don't want their son drafted, you owe it to them to do that

and like keep your finger on the pulse of what your party wants. Yeah, Megan, I think this current administration, I think that everything that's being shoved down the throats, I think it's just a test to how far they can actually go next presidency. Are you worried about if Jetty Vance or Marco Rubio is elected president? Do you feel that there's a strong possibility that we're going to be in a full-fledged war with Iran? I'm more worried about that under Trump.

Yeah. You know, he's like, the things he's saying, and I know he wants to bring it to an end now, so I'm happy about that. I think he genuinely wants to bring it to an end. He can't possibly want anything other than that, looking at the polls. Even Trump, do you have noticed?

Even Trump is not ripping on these polls because they're everywhere. It's every single outlet and every single poll. He knows he can't delegitimize the polls right now. So I do worry that he's going to be pushed by Netanyahu into like one big, one big last hurrah and that'll that'll turn it around and it won't it'll only be part of the escalation trap and he shouldn't do it but so that's I'm more worried about him I think jd he can't say

it publicly because he's got to be a loyal guy to trump and it would be career suicide not to be his role but I don't think he's in favor of this I think he's like oh my god like and he doesn't want to be saddled with it and it's already hampering his numbers so like I don't think there's I guarantee you I haven't talked to him about it but I guarantee you that I guarantee you that There's not a bone in his body that is in favor of this or wanted this. Marco's more neocani, though I think, you know, according to the New York Times, was skeptical about this and told Trump that what he was being told by Netanyahu was bullshit and not to believe him.

I mean, I think Marco's big issue has more been Cuba all along and not so much Iran, although he's very, very pro-Israel. He's still in that place where all the Republicans were, you know, no daylight. you're always on Israel's side. But Marco Savvy, I really hope he is able to see what's happening to the party and can like extend an elbow in the way that Charlie Kirk was trying to do before he died for young Republicans who are Israel skeptic, Israel skeptical. So I don't know.

I don't believe, I think, I think J.D. Vance is a non-interventionalist and his instincts will be absolutely to avoid war. Marco, I'm less convinced of that, though I think he's a good man. So there's hope for the Republican Party. Ish. Yeah, yeah, it's like, look, no matter who it is. And I mean, I would vote for JD Vance in an instant. I really hope he runs.

I will 100% support him. But, you know, you have to make a lot of promises in order to get that office. You've got to kiss a lot of ass. And look at like Miriam Adelson, $100 million. is tough to turn down. That actually can make the difference between winning and losing. And you can't do anything for your worldview or the worldview of the people who think like you if you lose. So they all get caught in this trap where they wind up doing the bidding of those with the deepest pockets. You know, look what just happened with Trump and the vapes.

You know, it's like R.J. Reynolds, they're making vapes now. And they wanted his approval of these vapes and this reportedly the reason he got rid of McCarrie who was great I loved McCarrie he was great he was doing the Maha thing at FDA and reportedly he didn't want to fast track approval of these vapes because they're like Hawaiian punch flavored it's very clearly for children and it's not great to get kids hooked on vaping and so he didn't want to do the fast track approval and reportedly that's why he got pushed out of FDA well what happened then they came in and reportedly made a five million dollar donation and guess what happened There was a call made reportedly to RFKJ, who's now kind of in charge, and McCarrie's gone,

and they got approved. Like, that's how Washington works. So the most principled person can go in there swearing they're not going to be bought and paid for, but it takes a lot. It takes like a Thomas Massey type who really means it. I mean, honestly, like I think Tucker, who's extremely committed to his ideologies and so on, like his POV, I don't think he could be bought and paid for. but like it's very tough i think nine out of ten of them go along to get along because they want

to preserve their political hide more than they want to stay ideologically pure do you think that's why tulsie gabbert at that hearing she would not say that iran did not have nuclear weapons yes of course she is in an impossible position too i think tulsi knows very well we need her in that job it is very bad for everything the country needs and what I believe in, what you guys believe in, to have Tulsi Gabbard leave that job or be kicked out. So, man, she had to thread that needle. Like, she knew what was true. She knew what the president wanted to hear.

Right. And she was so careful with her words. I was relieved she managed to survive. But, of course, it did diminish her in Trump world. It did. And I don't know how secure her position is, but I thanked God, she said what was real and she didn't get fired. Right. Joe Kent, I guess he just felt so disgusted about the war in administration that he just couldn't take it anymore. He just resigned. And people was calling them a traitor and things. Because deep down, I mean, everybody, even the boomers, they know deep down inside that this war is all bullshit. There's no nuclear weapons. We're doing this for Israel. And that's the only reason why, you know, we lost the 13 Americans that we did. It's because it's just BS. Well, and look at poor Joe Kent.

You know, it's like your wife died in Syria because, well, under the Trump administration, 1.0, you know, it's for a war that what are we doing over there? Why is this happening? What's this an extension of Syria now? Why are we even in Syria? What's happening in Syria? You know, it's another Middle Eastern Quagmire that we got involved in. He didn't think she should be over there.

They had two young sons and she died and she got killed. And so I'm sure in a way that we can only imagine Joe Kent has like a serious opposition to recklessly involving the United States in another Middle East war. I mean, it was a war of choice that we started this Iranian war. So and so, you know, to his credit, he's stuck by his views. But I've got to be honest, if you asked me, back when he was thinking about what should I do, I would have urged him not to do what he did

because I don't think Joe Kent quitting advanced the ball that much on the detractor side. Like it's another person, it's a great person to have on Team Sanity, but I would rather have him on the inside. There are precious few on the inside who have access to information and the ability to help guide the discussion.

And we can't really spare it. So I'm, I'm kind of sad that he did what he did, but I totally get it. How about Trump's comments about him about his wife dying and that it was around suspicious that he was very suspicious that he got married very soon after her death? I mean, that's just like, that's very low. And I've met Trump in a main green. He seemed like a very nice. He was very pleasant to be around, but to attack somebody's loyalty to that dead wife was like, made me look at Trump in a different eye.

Yeah. It's so wrong. And can I tell you something? I'll tell you something personal. Mm-hmm. In 1985, my dad died of a sudden heart attack at age 45. And my mother was 44 and was absolutely devastated. They had a true love affair of my parents.

They deeply loved one another. And my mom, who was a nurse, was left with nothing. She had his one small life insurance policy, and that's it. She had three kids, two of whom were in college. And she was devastated. She was devastating. Her world was blown apart. She joined this group called Haven in upstate New York.

It was through the church and started going to widows counseling. And she did that every day for three years. And in year three, she met a widower in that group who had lost his wife to cancer. And at years four and a half, she got married to him. She got remarried. Four years is a long time, actually. It's plenty of time to grieve your spouse and possibly find love. again, especially for somebody in their 40s who knows themselves and is mature and whatever.

So it's like, it's just the premise of it is factually wrong, you know what he said, and talk about a glass house. I mean, Trump has cheated on every wife he's had. He met Marla Naples while he was still married to the mother of his children, Ivana. It was all over the New York papers i'm i'm from new york from state new york but i was in new york when this will all went down the city and um he was like being touted like he was proud of the affair it was all over the papers so and by the way ivana his first wife accused him of raping her that she alleged in her first book that he was so angry over the hair transplant he got that she made him get it was so painful that he raped her and she later retracted that when he ran for president

But that stood on the books for some time. I don't know whether that's true or not. I'm just saying clearly not a great relationship there. And then he winds up with Melania and, you know, if you think Trump's been faithful to Melania, okay, that's great. You got bigger issues than I can solve here. But so the nerve, like the nerve for him to be judging somebody else's marriage or love relationships or choices, it just shows.

you like he's got Hutzpah, I guess is the word for it, like beyond. And it was really inappropriate. No, it was wrong. What he said was wrong on many levels. Do you think Trump is a Christian? That's a rhetorical question. They have like rhinos.

He's like a chino. He's a Christian in name only. Yeah. Right. You know? Right. Chino. That's a good one.

I know he did grow up going to a church on the upper west side of Manhattan that where the past pastor was Norman Vincent Peel. You know, the power of positive thinking guy. That was his pastor. And it actually, if you read that book, you will understand a lot about Trump. You know, Trump's like relentless positivity about everything is not really, even stuff that you know is falling apart, it's not lying. It's the way his mind works. He really does follow that book, the power positive thinking, which was drilled into him by the guy himself at a very young age.

By the way, it's a very helpful tool in life. Like we should all get so afflicted. And like, so, you know, that guy, his message was godly and it's based on God and you know, he reminds you, for example, one of the things that he says, and I say it to my kids too is before you take a test or before you have something big. you say out loud, if God before me, who could be against me? And you say it three times out loud. Like that's one of Norman Vince Appeals things.

So I think that was drilled into Trump. So I do, I believe he probably has at least a healthy suspicion that there's a higher power. And you hear him now talking about heaven and he doesn't think he's gonna get in. It's tongue and cheek. You know what with every joke, there's like a little nugget of truth in there.

Right, right. I don't think he's ruling. it out. But I don't know if he's a true believer, you know, and committed in a way that truly faithful, religious people are. So that's kind of where I think he stands. So let me put you in a hot seat for just a minute. Not too hot, though. What has this been? Is this been the cold seat? Don't ask you about this comment, you made. You said, what you say? Let me pull it up. Republicans. You said, if we nuke Iran, you still vote Republican. Can you explain that?

Yeah, well that was tongue in cheek too because I don't want us to nuke Iran or anybody for that matter. But my point was simply you can't vote Democrat. You just can't like it's a saying of this to somebody the other day. I'm like, it's kind of like you look at your spouse and your spouse put on 100 pounds. It was spending every day on the couch stuffing their mouth with potato chips and like there's drool coming down.

And they're kind of nasty now and you're like, what did I marry? What's going on? Maybe I'll, I don't know, what's, who's, What's happening at the office? There's somebody who's kind of hot. And you're like, you're thinking about doing something wrong. And you're looking at the hot one.

And then the hot ones like, love to be with you. And I want to chop off your children's genitals. It's a no. Right, yeah, right. We can't get so upset with Trump and team Republican that we start to empower these lunatics who are mutilating children and believe an open border is empathetic. Like think that the war.

ones we should be empathetic to are the Venezuelan street gangs instead of the Lake and Rileys or the Sheridan Gormons of the world. Like that's, we can't have that. We just can't. Like way more Americans are going to die if we reempower those Democrats. So it's like, I don't think the answer is to stay at home on your couch, even though it's tempting. And I do think even if you're very disillusioned with the Republican Party, the answer is to

plug your nose and still vote for them because the alternative. is truly crazy-ass radical. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if he did nuke Iran, I think I would definitely consider voting for a trans. But, like, truly, let me tell you this. Nothing's worse than a nuclear war. Because I'm worried about the border.

I'm worried about the border. I'm worried that these Democrats haven't learned a thing about the border and are against the closed border. The only one who has like, whose name has been mentioned as possibly running on team. Blue is Rahm Emanuel. He has said explicitly, he told me in an interview, I wouldn't change a thing about the border. I would leave Trump's border policies in place. Now, he disagrees on the

deportations. And I disagree with him on that. But, okay, he's the only Democrat willing to say, what Trump did on the border is good. A closed border is good. All the others are still on record as adopting that empathy bullshit. Empathy for illegal Venezuelan killers. is not the kind of empathy we want here in America. I want empathy for Jocelyn Nungaro, who was 12 years old, sexually assaulted by two illegals and thrown off a bridge. That's the empathy I want.

And the Democrats don't seem to understand that. Governor Pritzker in Illinois, when Sheridan Gorman was killed by that illegal on that pier just a couple of months ago, 18-year-old girl there for college, her whole life in front of her, just got shot in the neck for nothing, this hoodlum,

tractor, tractor down on the pier at night running after her with a mask on and shot her in the back. I mean, like the most brutal thing possible, he wouldn't even express empathy for her. He had to be dragged to the empathy place kicking and screaming. His first couple of statements were just about like, oh, well, crime is bad. What? No, this wasn't crime. This is somebody who had no right to be. That's a long-winded way of saying, you cannot reempower the Democrats at the presidential level. Like, I don't, there's no amount of disillusionment I can feel about Trump that would stop me, let's say he were on the ballot again, from voting for him over all of those Democrats, except maybe Rahm Emanuel, who also spoke truth on the trans issue. Like, I just, I can't see a world

in which I would pull the lever for them ever, or even be apathetic and let them reclaim power. unless they come out swinging next time around, read that DNC autopsy of what happened to them in 24 and sound completely different and actually can talk the talk and convince me that they mean it. I just and I voted Democrat. Like I'm a registered independent. I voted in nine presidential elections over the course of my long life. And I've done, I've voted for five Republicans and four Democrats. So I'm not, I would vote for a Democrat if it were the right person.

So it's a lot for me to say that I would never do. it now because they've just gone so, so crazy. They're nuts. Right. I could never vote for another Democrat. Right. That current state, no. I could vote for the old Bill Clinton.

Because I remember I was in the Marine Corps. I was like 18, 19 years old. And if you brought back that type of Democrat, that was liberal and not progressive and, like, drowning in empathy, yeah, I could vote for that. But yeah. Yeah. You know what I think, you know what I think right now a lot of Republicans are considering is just divided government. Like, I've heard a lot of Republicans say that they hope Republicans lose the

midterms because, A, they want a message sent to them, you know, that, like, what they're doing is wrong. They've lost their way. And B, they just want inertia in Washington. They don't want any agenda passed. A leftist, a rightist, like, everyone needs to be stopped. Like, let's shrink government down to its smallest self and maybe focus on our local leaders try to get them off their asses to do some good but you know that's another argument but just if you stay at home you're going to leave it up to the elderly who do vote and they're going to get their way because they do show up they're very weird about social security and medicare i've seen that every single election and they want to make sure that stays well it's not solvent but they want to make sure that at

at least stays in the promise stays in place. Right, right. How do you feel about SCOTUS's latest ruling that, you know, race-based districts is unconstitutional? I feel good about it. I love our Supreme Court. It's like the best hope of optimism in, you know, the political role today.

It was obviously the right decision. And the Voting Rights Act, I mean, like, they're like, they got it, they got it. It's like, all right, the Voting Rights Act hasn't really done anything other than divide us by race. necessarily for decades now. And this Supreme Court just recognized that reality, that it's not doing anything other than now reverse discrimination.

So, and they all knew that, by the way. But what the left would like to ignore is that when these laws were passed, they understood that there would be an expiration date. The time would come when this would no longer be necessary. And we heard the Supreme Court say that on the Voting Rights Act. We heard them say that on affirmative action. I was there. I was in the court.

I used to be a Supreme Court correspondent. I practiced law for 10 years. and I was a correspondent for Fox covering the high court. And I sat there when they argued the case that went up 10 years before the one that struck down affirmative action in 22. And they said that day, there will come a time soon when we're gonna strike this regime down.

And that's what was contemplated when the law was passed. And we're there. So the left, I mean, the view, those idiots on the view, actually had a conversation in which they suggested, it's still happening that whites are bringing German shepherds to polling places and sinking them on blacks to stop them. Like, these are lies. Like blacks are getting lynched at the polling places down in like Louisiana such that we need the voting. These are lies. So it was about time that we had a high court. The reason pushed that thing to the side.

And let's move on. Let's get back to like the late 80s to the late 90s where we weren't dividing ourselves by race. Black and white and all the other colors were living side by side. And we didn't give a shit about any of that. We didn't talk about it. We didn't think about it. We just liked or didn't like the people around us based on personality, the old fashioned way. I think I'm sure black people don't see it this way. But the Supreme Court did them a favor because look who was representing you. Jasmine Crockett, Al Green. What were they. really doing for these black communities. Yeah, there's taking black people for granted. Yeah. And setting them back. Setting them back. How is that a good representative? You know, it's like, so offensive. The way people like Jasmine Crockett talk about black people is so offensive.

And also like in her attempt to appeal to black people, she tried to do her black sand. You know, it's like, who are you talking about? Like, truly like the black people I know, my friends are sophisticated. My good friend works at Goldman Sachs. He doesn't need you to talk black, damn, and go straight. I think he would have respected the lawyer version of you more where you sound just like, whatever, a normal person who was well educated and wanted to serve. So it's like offensive. And the liberals in general, remember that one politician who was like talking about the illegal immigrants, you know, like literally said like, who's going to wipe our asses in the nursing homes? It's like, right.

What? You are so racist. Why is every leftist idea of a black person or an immigrant some like uneducated, you know, person who's at like the bottom rung of our socioeconomic sad? Like it's crazy. It's so offensive. No Republican could ever get away with that. Yeah, right. Yeah. You were really close with Charlie. What do you think about the, about his death and the official story on what happened? You know, I feel like a lot of what has happened to me in my own life this year has in some way resulted from Charlie's murder. I think I changed dramatically on that day. And I don't totally know how yet. I just know it's true.

It definitely had a profound impact on me. And I don't know about the story around his murder. I do believe Tyler Robinson killed him. I don't know who, if at all, was also involved. I definitely am unsatisfied with the investigation into trans-Tifa, you know, around him. Why were people tweeting that he was gonna get shot and he was gonna die that day and you just wait for it? And then there have been no additional arrests.

And we've had no explanation on it. Like what happened to those people? Have they been ruled out? Why were they tweeting those things? It was multiple of them. and reportedly from that community out there. So it's like that I'm unsatisfied with. And you know, Candace Owens reported on her show

something that I and many others I know had been told prior to her saying it openly. I did not report it on my show because I did not have it on the record and I will not report something for which I don't have two sources. But it's out there now, but she did report that there were, she had a different number than I had heard,

but let's just say over two. 10 Israel only cell phones on campus that day that Charlie was killed at UVU, meaning a cell phone that doesn't, it's not like from, it has both service in Israel and the United States where it's like registered in Israel, but then you moved to the United States for college. It's like, this is an Israeli phone, an Israeli number that has service, originally had service over there. So, and I heard that from a very, very reliable source. So I don't know what that's about. I think it's led some people to have questions

and it could be complete bullshit. You know, like that could be, I don't know what that means. Maybe some is really exchanged, didn't change, you know, maybe there's a bunch of them. I have, I truly don't know, but that's worth investigating. I think like I'm fine with questions being asked about this and I am not satisfied that the government was open-minded

to those questions and did ask them. So I'm bothered by it. I'm bothered by it because while I do think Tyler Robinson killed Charlie, I don't know whether there's more to the story. And now I don't know whether we'll ever know. Yeah. I'm asked, I don't see how the guy that almost got Trump, how you don't spot somebody on the roof.

I don't know how his security doesn't see a guy on the roof. It's like what you should be looking at at all times. Yeah. I don't know how that happens and nobody didn't notice that. Yeah, I used to speak out about it all the time. I was like these events that Turning Point has, I'll see you guys are sitting ducks out there in the open for him, for his security detail to be so relaxed and allow that to happen. Charlies, I mean, excuse me, Charlies for that to happen.

And the assassination tip on Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania. How does something like that happen is like incompetence? Yeah. Well, I will say this about the Trump situation. Number one, we don't have enough information about his shooter at all. It's very weird. Right. But number two, when it comes to the government, always bet on incompetence, always. Like, I don't generally believe in any mass conspiracy at the government level because they're so incompetent.

They're just a bunch of boobs. I just, like, the CIA can do a lot, so I have more confidence in them. So I never rule it out entirely, but it's just the ability of the government to pull off some mass, like, conspiracy is very, very limited. So is it impossible for me to believe that they saw the Trump shooter, that they failed to see the Trump shooter? No, that's not hard for me to believe at all. It's like it is, it does, it's hard for me to wrap my arms around how a year after that, Charlie was killed the same way. Like how, it's one thing at Butler to not imagine that there might be a problem. rooftop killer. I do think people got relaxed. They let their guards down. They started to believe like,

it's fine, whatever. And I think there was some reporting that somebody wanted a crane. Susan Crabtree of real clear politics was reporting that somebody within the Secret Service had wanted a crane to block the view of that rooftop to Trump and that I think the Trump campaign didn't want it because it was unsightly. That doesn't excuse the Secret Service. Okay, so he doesn't want the crane. You got to get rid of the crane. And then you just got to protect the rooftop, you know, still. Even more so now. So I don't know what went down there, but I don't understand how, you know, that was July of 24 that that happened and Charlie was killed in September of 25. So you're, you know, 14 months later, you can't say it was a failure of imagination there. And what I was told by people who know is that Charlie's security team was told that the local officials had it, like the local officials there.

were gonna patrol the roofs. And they accepted that. And obviously that wasn't the case. I don't really know to this day, whether it was done just inadequately or it wasn't done at all. But it was, if it was done, it was done so poorly. And there's no excuse, you know,

there's just gonna be no excuse and there has to be full full investigation of exactly what went wrong on the security front. And that too, I don't think, I don't think has been done. Yeah. It's not going to happen. Yeah.

And Charlie Kirk was very vocal about not going to war with Iran. Him being gone now and his wife, his CEO of Turning Point, why do you think she hasn't been more vocal about the situation in Iran? And standing behind her husband. Yes. Who was vocal against it. It's almost like she didn't know what her husband's feelings were on this situation in Iran. I think, I mean, Erica, she's.

She hasn't done that much political talk since Charlie died. She's done a lot of public appearances, but she hasn't done that much specific policy, you know, talk some, but not a ton. And that's a tricky one because, you know, and it's dividing feelings are about Turning Point as we speak. Right.

You know, the same thing that was affecting Turning Point when Charlie was killed is affecting it today, which is the Republican Party is, cleaved in two, right? There's like the very neocon pro-Israel faction, and there is the Israel skeptical, non-interventionals faction, you know, that's more America first, or as MTG put it, America only, you know,

at this point, I'm kind of more where she is, but whatever. And there was a battle underway when Charlie was killed to see which way turning point would go. Charlie had been, my own evolution, with Charlie was like we were in lockstep and I knew Charlie very well and we talked about this a lot so I know what I'm talking about. But he and I were in exactly the same place. We had both been very, very pro-Israel in a way that was totally unquestioning and deeply loyal. And then after Gaza and it just went on and on, we both sort of got to the point

where it was like, okay, like enough, enough. You know, your most ardent fans looked the other way for a long time, but it's gone on too long. It's gotten too brutal. you don't get an unending pass on brutality wiping out kids okay like we're paying attention and he was there too and he even more than yours truly had his finger on the pulse of what young republicans wanted what young conservatives were feeling and they were already against the war you know the democrats went long ago against israel all of the independence had turned by the summer before when when Charlie was killed. And the young Republicans were turning in huge numbers.

And he knew it. He had done a forum with young Republicans talking about exactly that. And it's out there, you can see it and Google it. And so Charlie was starting to turn. He was starting to turn on Israel. And he did not appreciate the pressure he was under from his Jewish donors to not turn and to not platform people like Tucker,

who had already turned. He didn't appreciate. He resented it. He was thinking about giving back their donations. And there was a question about which way Turning Point was going to go. Because, you know, the Republican Party was divided into was turning point going to choose a side? And was it going to be, quote, the wrong side, you know, in the minds of his like deeply devoutly pro-Israel donors? And he died before that was resolved. And so I feel for Erica because I don't think Charlie was having an easy time of that.

And Erica certainly is not going to be having an easy time with that. You know, like she's left with Charlie's messaging, which was no war with Iran, but that anti-Semitism is brain rot. And probably in no condition to discern what exactly is anti-Semitism and what's not. because like people are conflating that right now. They're expanding that term as we speak to include any criticism of Israel. And Erica, for most of her adult life,

has not been a political figure. She's been a wife. She was a reality TV. She was a realtor. Like she hasn't been in the business. This is complex stuff, even for me. And I've been in law and politics for a long time, decades. So I just think she's probably,

and I haven't talked to her about this, but I think she's probably, I don't know, feeling the ground under her feet moving and not wanting to do anything that's going to undermine her husband's organization and doing her best to just hold whatever factions she can together so that they don't turn on turning point. You know, like, I think based on what we saw it,

like, you know, their event in December, Amfest, she would like to keep both factions under the turning point roof. I don't know whether it's possible. Yeah. And I think she'd like to keep those pro-Israel donors on board and not lose the non-interventionalist section of the party. And I don't know whether that's possible either. So that's, you know, you asked me why she hasn't said anything about it. That's my guess without having spoken about directly.

So do you think Charlie Kirk's death was a coincidence at that point in time where he was starting to turn against Israel? You think that was just a coincidence? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. That's the biggest thing I'm having a tough time grasping is how does this happen now? And to probably, I would say, one of the most important men in Republican Party's history. I mean, when he died, I feel that America first died with Charlie that day. I know what you mean.

I think actually, like in retrospect, it was MAGA that died. Yeah. You know, because I think America First is still there. I think we're living it. Like there are many of us who still feel it and are living it. It's not a principle that's being shared by everybody. But, you know, Trump has now defined MAGA to be you support Mark Levine or you don't. You actually have to be pro-Israel, pro this war.

And he literally said pro-Marc-Lavin or you're out. Great. It's good to have it to find. I'm out. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Still America first.

But if that's MAGA, I'm definitely not. I mean, I never was MAGA. I used to describe myself as MAGA adjacent, like fluent in MAGA, but not MAGA. Because I always understood that connoted some sort of loyalty to Trump. And I'm not loyal to any political figure. My job requires me to be loyal to the truth,

which is not consistent with loyalty to an individual politician. But I understand MAGA. And I think that day, yeah, that was probably the beginning of the death of MAGA. because the fissures in the party became so deep and they were starting already.

I don't know though. You know, I guess I have a dear friend who knows a lot about Israel and its leaders and is like very connected. And this person swears to me that Israel does not kill Americans, like does not do individual assassins. This is not a naive person.

And Tyler Robinson is exactly, exactly the kind of person who could have pulled the trigger on his own. The loner, the trans furry lover. You know what I mean? We see so many of these bizarre leftists, you guys. Is it so hard to believe that it was just this lone wolf loser? Right. Who thought Charlie was too hateful?

It's not for me. I've covered so many of these school shootings. And this guy fits the profile of so many of these school shooters. Right. White kid, young 20s, psychotic break, manipulated by radical messaging on the left. buys it, snaps, and, you know, does a school shooting, which really Charlie was killed in a school shooting if you think about it. So it's not hard for me to believe that. But the truth is I can't rule out the Israel connection because we refuse to investigate it. You're not allowed to talk about

it. Charlie was breaking from Israel and it was causing an open issue, not just with his Jewish donors, but with Netanyahu to whom he wrote that long letter. Like Israel was aware of Charlie had a huge amount of power on this issue. And his silencing has made a profound difference. I mean, the silencing of his voice that was Iran or Israel critical and also didn't want any sort of a war with Iran, which they all clearly knew was coming. Like, I'm not making the case against them. I don't want people to say, hey, you know, like, what are anti-Israel? It's not that.

It's just unlike people who have a horse in the race, like, who are like, we defend Israel, you know, or, you know, or, you know, or, you know, or we hate Israel. I am a lawyer. I am evidence-based. And there is smoke around Israel. I just have yet to see actual fire. Right. So I don't know.

That's why I say, I don't know. How do you feel about daily wire losing subs and mass layoffs while voices like you, Tucker, Candace, explode? Yeah, literally exploding. Well, not good. I have to say, like I actually have a lot of friends over at the Daily Wire, because I have been friends with Ben and a lot of people over there for 10 years. And I actually hate to see it happen.

It's not like the bless their hearts, I hate to see it happen. I genuinely hate to see it happen. And I am angry, if I'm honest. I'm hurt and I'm angry about what Ben did to me at that turning point event and what he's been doing ever since. So like that piece does make me feel some satisfaction

that he's suffering if I'm honest, but overall no, because I do have a lot of friends there. And I think it's better to have more conservative voices out there. I'm not, I don't love what the Daily Wire's doing with its messaging. So you know, do we need another neocon voice out there? I don't think so. I think they're covered.

Right. I don't know, I have complicated feelings about it just because of my friendships there and because I'm trying not to let my personal anger toward him affect my empathy for good people who I know are inside that building. That's the difference between you, Tucker, Candice. Candice. I mean, there's some compassion there.

Do you think they would have that same compassion for you if you and Tucker will essentially cancel? They would be dancing. Not now. Yeah, not today. And, you know, it's very strange because, you know, Ben, He's out there calling me very nasty names. He calls me a click whore.

And then he points out that I've lost some subscribers on my YouTube. Well, it's true. I've lost like 1% of my YouTube audience because I got in Trump's crosshairs. I didn't lose one because of Ben when he attacked me. Right. Great point. I mean, we lost subscribers too. Yeah.

We got a lot of people. That's okay. That's fine. So, okay, my anti-war stance has cost me. 1% of my audience. That's fine. They had to go because if they thought that I was just like a pro-Trump sycophant, they did misjudge me and we're going to have to part ways one way or another sooner or later. So, you know, farewell and I wish them no, no, you know, ill will, but that's not a click whore. If I were a click whore, I would be backing Trump.

Right. Reflectively and unfailingly. Right. You know, on this issue, I'm trying to say what I really feel because you guys know, in this space, if you don't do that, you're really fucked. Like you really have screwed yourself if you start lying about your feelings for clicks. And I was brought up in the Roger Errol's era at Fox where, I mean, that man was completely against chasing an audience.

He felt that was one thing he drilled into all of us when we were young. You do not chase an audience. You know, you do the news, you do it to the best of your ability, and the audience will come to you. on the on the things like israel like whatever you didn't even have to say where you should be because that was just known you know it's just kind of known um like i said all republicans are pro israel duh it's like crossing israel while i was at fox would have been like shitting on

the military like you just this is never something you would have even done right but in any he didn't believe in chasing an audience and i don't believe in chasing an audience either and i think with all these things there are highs and lows like i have seen over the course of my because I've been in television a long time now, they come and they go. You know, like there's the high season and the low season and the relationship with an audience goes like that,

but you're playing the long game if you're really in news. And I've had enough of those highs and lows to know, I'll be fine, and I enjoy doing what I do. You know, like I would never give it up. It's just too meaningful to me. It's like my therapy getting out there every day and enough people like it

that I think I will be able to stay doing it. Good. Good for you. I feel the exact same way. I want to ask you about this influencer that has recently been arrested. He calls himself Chud the Builder. Have you heard of him? No, no, no. I thought you were going to say clavicular. No, no, no. That's some problem, too.

No, see, okay, so you're not familiar with Chud. Chudd, the Builder. Is that what you said? Yeah, Chud the Builder. He goes, well, you need to look him up after our show. Well, did you want to pull up something, Joe? He's an influencer, and he's really big on freedom of speech. He goes up to black people before I show the clip, and he says the N-word to get a reaction from them. But it's based on he's white, and he should be able to say whatever you want to say. So I'm going to show you a clip.

Yeah. But here recently, he was involved in an incident where he shot the black guy, I think twice. Yeah. Oh. And himself. Okay. He's in jail right now. Yeah.

You got that clip, Joe? All right. Okay. I got my guy pulling up. up for you. Okay. This will give you a gist of what his content is like. I can't wait to see where this is going. This guy's nuts. In our humble opinion. Yeah. I'm all about freedom of speech, but we have to respect one another. Just because I, like, I'm old. It doesn't Chud mean something like, is it sexual? No, no. Well, it has a bunch of different meanings. And I'm kind of old. I'm going to be

52 so yeah i'm not in a loop we're all old yeah yeah chud it's like um it's like a a term for a right winger um I think that's lonely oh yeah

that's not bad why did I think it was like a description of a penis well I think he's had some gay accusations made you're content but you can play the net with chode oh yes Yes, you're right.

Look at his chimping out. That's the news team. Y'all know his name now. Isaiah Ware. Pussy ass fuck. He talks a lot of shit on the newscast. Come over here, chimp out. Come here and chimp out.

Come on over here and chimp out. We tried to have a civil conversation. Y'all saw the whole thing. Y'all saw the whole thing. You following me to my truck now? We got 18 rounds for you. We ain't got nothing else. Don't follow me in my truck.

I bet you won't follow me in my truck, no. Come on. Look at him, Uga Buga. He's getting a lot of support, not from the left, but from Republicans, conservatives. Because they keep saying this for freedom of speech. I said, that's not freedom of speech, you racist idiots. God. But he ended up shooting a black guy and he's in jail, I think he's got a million dollar bond.

The guy didn't die. Yeah, thank God. But he has a lot of people supporting him doing that. Okay, here. You're a bitch. Literally, all you do is talk about your dick. Ah, I'm sorry. I'm in here.

Come back over here. Okay, let's not, let's not fight. Let's not fight. Touch me again. Touch me again. I don't want to get pepper spray. I really don't. Go pick up my hat.

You hurt me. Touch me again. You hurt me. Touch me again, nigger. He was based in Nashville. Yeah. What's your thoughts on that? That is a leftist's view of a conservative.

That's what liberals, not liberals, not like normal liberals, but like leftists, progressive. That's what they think it's like to go to a conservative dinner party. Right. You know? And it's not. Like, that's a nightmare. That guy is an obvious racist. I'm not surprised he shot a black man.

It was just a matter of time from the look of it. It's disgusting, it's hate speech. I don't think the speech was necessarily illegal, right? Like, hit speech is legal, but that doesn't make it okay or right. And he was definitely threatening and menacing in a way that could arguably have crossed it over, you know, to incitement.

So that would make it not legal. But that's horrible and that should never be defended. And you know, I'll say something about the N-word in my 55 years, I've never uttered that word. I've never uttered it at all, even like to make a point or, you know, I just, I won't say it.

It's so charged. But I understand the argument that we've allowed it to be too charged. You know, we've given too much power to a word. Whereas like, and I understand like, this is why a lot of rappers say it, it's like disempowering it, you know, but I'm not sure white people can be part of that,

you know, like to disempowering it. disempower it. I'm not sure that's the way forward. But having said that, to use it like as an assault word, that's what he was doing. Like he was using it at somebody to diminish them and mentioning the chimp thing. Yeah. Like, and the get down and get my hat and then he sprayed the guy like, my God,

that's obviously this guy's got arrested or should have for that. And the fact that it escalated to violence is of no surprise. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of us support is saying they make the statement, oh, it's just a word, it's just a word. I'm like, do you realize how many people in jail for just words?

Yeah, some words care. But they shouldn't be. Right, right. I mean, they should have. I agree that it depends. You're like, when it comes to free speech, let me say this, it is legal in the United States, not in Great Britain, to be a racist,

to be a sexist, to be an anti-Semite, to be a bigot, to be a xenophobe. Those are, you can be all those things. It's lawful. You can have hate in your heart. You can speak hate. That's thanks to our First Amendment. That's truly what makes us different

from every country on the planet Earth. What you can't do is hire or fire somebody based on those things or not hire or fire somebody based on those things. Make it like an employment decision based on those traits or harass somebody based on those traits or threaten somebody based on those traits. based on those traits. Like that's where you'll run into a speech violation.

So if you use that word to actually incite violence against somebody and he was getting, he was getting there, but it has to be something that is both likely to cause immediate violence, not long term, not in an hour now, right now, likely and that you understand that as the speaker and intend that. So it's a very narrow,

sliver. You can get there. But just like, these crazy people are not wrong that it's lawful to be racist and it's lawful even to say racist things. Right. That's where our friends in the UK are going wrong. They're arresting people just for like being racist or allegedly saying racist things, which is crazy. You don't get arrested for just being a bad person. It seems more clear if you put it in the sexist category, it seems like so more obvious. You know what I mean? My friend Jason Whitlock, he's funny, and he'll say, like, I'm a sexist and I don't think women should be doing certain jobs. Right. Okay.

You shouldn't get arrested for that. Right. He's entitled to that opinion. Right. Anyway, that's my overall view. All right. So the closest, how do you think Trump's administration is going to end? What do you think that looks like?

That's a good question. Anything could happen. It's so far away. Right. Right. Right. Do you know where we're like, What are we 16 months into the presidency?

It felt like 10 years. I know. It's like if I think for 16, 17 months? Oh my God. Right. Okay. So we're going to have to get in shape. That's first of all.

I think we're going to have to really start exercising. Here's what I know. I don't know what's going to happen legislatively exactly. He's not getting anything passed. He's going to lose the House. He could lose the Senate, which, should be truly disastrous. Even though the map gets worse for Republicans in 28.

They could lose even more seats. Like you can't have a 60 vote majority of Dems in the Senate. Good God. We'd lose the country. We'd have Puerto Rico as a state. Right, right. Venezuela. Trump was saying, let's make Venezuela a state.

That's not a Republican talking. A Democrat would want Venezuela as a state. Right. Those would all be Democrat voters. But we could have Puerto Rico as a state. We could have D.C. as a state. We could have D.C. as a state. We could have, we could pack the court with another 10 seats, all blue.

all of that can be done by congressional majorities with the Democrat in the White House. Yeah. All of that can be done. That you don't need, like you don't need a constitutional amendment. You don't have to convince two thirds of the states. No, that can be done with majority votes.

It's very scary. Very scary. That's why be careful about wishing that we get rid of the filibuster. I know people say like, well, but the Democrats are going to do it anyway. That's a good argument, but that's the only argument. Because if there's any world in which the Democrats aren't doing it, the Republicans shouldn't do it.

Because the Democrats are the ones who push through umpteen laws. per week. Republicans generally don't pass a lot of laws. It's the Dems who do that, and the Republicans stop it. So be careful about taking away our one tool to stop it. Anyway, he's not going to get any legislation through,

which is unfortunate because he's really gotten none through so far. We have the Lake and Riley Act, which was good, and we had the one big beautiful bill, which is good, and that's it. That's it. Everything else has been in executive order. So it can be undone by executive order, which is why we do still need Republican rule. I mean, do you want a J.D. Vance looking at those executive orders, or do you want a Kamala Harris looking at them?

So there's that. But right after the midterms, which are now just months away, all of the national attention is going to switch to 28 and the presidential election. And that's a good thing. Thank God. Right, right, right, right. You know, Trump will still remain relevant and loud because, you know, Trump will still remain relevant and loud because, you know, It's his party and he can't stand not being the center of attention. So he's not gonna like fade off in the background or anything. But this is an interesting position because it will not be his game and everybody knows he's term limited and he cannot run again. So like necessarily the story's going to change to

other people. He'll still be a player but he's not he's not going to be the only main player on the stage and how he handles that will be interesting. Yes. His government will be stalled. He'll probably have lost interest in governing because not getting anything through or being able to do anything is not that fun. It's not that interesting. But he loves politics. So he's going to want to weigh in.

And then J.D. and Marco and maybe Pete Heggseth or whoever decides to throw their hat in the ring is going to have a really tough, really act to perform. Because they got to please the old man. Yeah. But they got to look at all of us and say, like, if you're JD, I would not have started this war. Right. Like now you really. Or you wind up like Kamala Harris on the view. Is there anything you would have done differently?

No, not that I can think of. Well, that's sunk her. You can't say that in the Republican Party right now, which is two divided. So it's actually going to get really interesting. For those of us who are in the I Just Cover It Business, it's going to be great. It's going to be, you know, whatever, manna from heaven. But for those who are actually in politics, it's going to get uncomfortable fast. Very fast.

Do you think someone could steal a show like a Thomas Massey or Tucker Carlson? I think Tucker would be a game changer. Yeah. I would love to see him run. I would love to see him run. I think his life is too good. Yeah. Why do that to your life?

He's not needy. Right. It sucks. He's like a together guy who, like, knows who he is. He doesn't need the affirmation. Sucks. It's too bad, too, because, like, you know, his mom abandoned him when he was little.

He should have more issues. Right. Anyway, I don't think he's going to run, but it would be great if he did. I don't think Massey will be a game changer just because, you know. He could be his VP. Yes, he would be interesting in that role, but I just don't think, like, he's a little off socially. Like, he's... Oh, yeah.

He's like Ron DeSantis? Not quite that bad, but, yeah. Tucker's charming. It helps if you can charm people. Right. I don't know. I'm not sure about Massey. No offense, but whatever.

I don't know if there's gonna be a game changer. You know, like maybe on Team Dem. Like, I know this sounds crazy, but like if The Rock said he was gonna run, or I can't stand this guy, but like George Clooney, that could actually be a game changer for them because people love celebrity. They love it. We're Americans, we're suckers for that stuff.

Right. So that kind of a person could swoop in and change the prospects over there on Team Blue. Right now they have no star. I mean, Pete Buttigieg. I don't think so. Yeah, Gavin Newsom. Gavin Newsom, yes, he's got the great hairline, looks matter, he's tall. Like, I do think there's a fair amount of people who will be like, oh, he look at him. He's hot. Like, he's politics hot. And the way, Chief Justice Roberts is Supreme Court hot.

Right. But you start to talk about the policies in California. Right, yeah. It's the most radical stuff on earth. It's so crazy. Like someone will put his record to him. And then I do think he's in trouble. And the Democrats are going to realize that during the primary process, like how truly radical he's been in California.

So I do have my doubts about him. But they apply across the board. Kamas no less radical. Buttigieg may be less radical. I don't know. But he's too weird and too feminine. That's not going to happen. The first gay man to become president is going to be like a man's man who you didn't, you can't even tell us gay.

Right. Right. Right. Right. The same way the first female to become president is going to be like someone's tough who's not like constantly talking about her womanhood. Right. Pritzker's too fat. I like Rahm Emanuel, but he's Jewish and the Democrat Party doesn't seem to really love Jewish people. I'll just be honest. The Maryland governor, a lot of Democrats have been propping him up.

I forget his name at the moment. Oh my God, he's never seen a day in which he doesn't tell a lie about himself. Yeah, I know. Westmore. Where the view loves. How did George Santos get thrown out of Congress? Right. Because of all his lies, you know, I'm Jew-ish, he said.

Right. His mom was in the building on 9-11 lies. I actually find him kind of charming now. I saw him on some podcast. I'm like, I kind of like the guy. How do he get thrown out? And West Moore continues to get talked about as a presidential option. It's a no.

He appears to be a pathological liar. You'll never make it. Right. I don't see it. Well, this has been great. Megan, thank you for giving us your time today. And it's been a great conversation. We love you and God bless you.

Yes. Oh, love you guys too. Thank you for all the laughs and the insights. You guys are terrific. I'm big fans of yours as well. Come back on soon. Oh, we will. Definitely.

Definitely. Thank you. Lots of love. It's been a damn good show. See you guys. See you. Bye, Megan. Thank you.