Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Body Language Mistakes Every Woman Must Avoid To Get Rich (Two Bags Look Cheap!)

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

Body language expert Vanessa Van Edwards, bestselling author and founder of Science of People, joins Maggie Sellers Reum on Hot Smart Rich to reveal how to own any room, make unforgettable first impressions, master body language, and become instantly more confident in business and life. Vanessa shares how to prepare for intimidating rooms, spot the subtle signs someone is nervous, build trust through body language, and why the first six seconds of any interaction can change everything.  She also explains what your appearance communicates before you speak, how to recover from a bad first impression, the fastest ways to create genuine connection, give more memorable answers, and perfect your personal introduction so people never forget you. Whether you're networking, interviewing, pitching, or building your career, this conversation will change how you communicate forever. Conversation by Vanessa Van Edwards is a science-backed guide that teaches you how to master small talk, build instant rapport, and communicate with authentic confidence in any social situation. Pre-order now: https://linkly.link/2nCMM  Get unselfish access to insights that will help you own the room. Sign up now https://linkly.link/2jPXJ  (00:00) Intro (03:34) How To Read Any Room (06:47) Prepare For Intimidating Rooms (13:43) Signs Someone Is Nervous (17:36) Stop Interrupting Conversations (21:31) Body Language That Builds Trust (24:23) SoFi Ad (25:37) Lululemon Ad (26:38) Essential Business Body Language (31:53) The Six-Second First Impression (32:42) What Your Appearance Communicates (34:40) How To Recover From Bad First Impressions (37:06) The Fastest Way To Connect (39:08) Give More Memorable Answers (41:29) Perfect Your Personal Introduction (44:24) Shopify Ad (45:20) Bilt Ad (46:20) Communication Habits Of Successful People (54:35) How To Build Lasting Friendships Sponsors:  SoFi - http://sofi.com/hsrloan    Bilt - Sign up at http://Joinbilt.com/HSR  Lululemon - http://lululemon.com  Shopify - http://Shopify.com/HSR  Hot Smart Rich: Your Business & Culture Gossip For ambitious women wanting to own the room, gain power, and build wealth. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hotsmartrich/  Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hotsmartrich   Maggie Sellers Reum: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/maggiesellersreum/  Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maggiesellersreum  LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sellersmaggie/  Locker: https://www.wantlocker.com/users/maggiesellers  ShopMy: https://shopmy.us/maggiesellers  Amazon Storefront: https://www.amazon.com/shop/maggiesellers/   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales, using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify.

The person you are talking to decides everything about you in the first six seconds. Now in the age of Botox, this has gone. But if theoretically we could eyebrow raise, then those micro-expressions are really important for your social relationships. Vanessa Van Edwards, I could literally talk to you for hours. I help really smart, talented people who are a little bit awkward get better at communication. For a lot of women, we are taught to look for all the things that are wrong with us. But for men, they are taught this confidence. And they do this, power pose for the hands.

When I do it, I feel like I'm like talking to the moon. Highly successful people invest in their communication. Like, I listen to you, and I'm like, dang yeah. Because you never know when someone could be your next client, your next hire, your next partner. One thing that is important to know is if someone asks you, this is the biggest opportunity we have in our career. And if you are not knowing me answer that question, you are missing opportunities. So I have a formula for how I want you to answer that question.

We have to... How do you read rooms better? One is you have to remove these questions. How are you? What's up? What do you do? Second approach is the distance from your ear and your shoulder. And the last thing is a rookie mistake that people make, which is... Hi, Angels. Did you know that subscribing to our channel is free?

It doesn't cost you anything, and it is the simplest way for you to support HotSmart Rich and help us grow, so that we can bring you more of the conversations you love. Just hit the subscribe button below, and thank you. In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, Hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it. Vanessa Vin-Edwards. Are you ready to get Hot Smart Rich?

I'm so ready. I am so excited that you're here. You're in some bare feet, which is a big deal for people that don't know who you are. So for someone that has just clicked into this conversation, they're not familiar with you. What would you say to them to get them to stay? I'm a recovering awkward person. And I help really smart, talented, brilliant people who are a little bit awkward get that missing memo on communication. It's how to own the room by reading it, how to walk into a room as yourself.

Introverts are not fundamentally broken. They don't have to just pretend to be more outgoing. And so my mission, if you're willing to stay, is to give you some tips to be yourself and be heard. You just said something, Own the Room, which is this whole season's thesis. And it came across really organically as I was sitting across from all of these incredibly successful women, mostly, and men, that just have this ability to own the room in such a unique, distinct way. and I wanted to share all of those secrets. But a lot of people struggle with this.

Why do you think that that is? I think that if you don't like yourself, it's very hard to feel like you can own a room. And what I mean by that is I think, at least for me, for a lot of women, is we are taught to look for all the things that are wrong with us. Like, I'm not smart enough. I'm not pretty enough. I'm not thin enough. My skin isn't young enough. I'm not cool enough.

And so how could we walk into a room and feel like we own it if in our head all we're doing is thinking of all the things that we're missing and doing wrong? And so my mission is you don't have to be perfect. There is no such thing. But also, what are your micro-superpowers? What are your micro-strengths that are what people actually remember you for, that overshadow and overpower, all those little things that you think are wrong with you are not right? And I think that's the only way.

You're never going to think that you have nothing wrong with you. But if you are able to figure out, okay, I have a couple things that could make me stand out. That's, I think, how you can own the room. Can I be honest with you about something? Yes, yes. So I think people think I'm a very confident person, which in certain situations, I am. And then there are other rooms that I walk into, and I feel so insecure. I can feel that heartbeat just going crazy.

My voice is starting to shake. If I was holding papers, I could tell that it's like shaking. And I think talking about that is so important because even that dinner that we hosted, most of those women, all of those women in those room are people that anyone watching this looks up to. They have this persona of like being like they have it all together. They're so confident. But there are rooms, I'm sure of, that those women also feel the same way that everyone listening to this probably feels. So when you came to the dinner, how did you read that room in terms of who was there? I think every single person there. And I tried to have a one-on-one conversation with every single

person. That was my goal. My secret goal that night was to try to have a one-on-one conversation. with every person. I don't know if you felt this way. I felt like every single person felt they didn't belong. They were very welcomed. But every single person was like, oh my gosh, I can't believe that I'm here. I'm so awkward. I don't know if I belong, what I'm going to say. And we introduced a conversation charter, and I was so happy you did because I begged you. I was like, please, can we do one? Did you notice that not one single person was like, yeah, I can't wait to answer? Not one. And these are women who make their living online, talking online, answering questions online. And I was floored because not a single woman was like, I'll go first,

not a single one. And that shows us that this is an internal struggle, not an external struggle. It had nothing to do with the catering or you or who else was there. Everyone at that table was having an internal battle of, I don't want to sound stupid. I think a lot of women said this out loud. I don't know if this is good or not. I don't know if this is interesting or not. Everyone thought they were not interesting. These are women who literally have millions of followers. And every single woman thought that their answer was not interesting enough. And so this is an internal battle.

It doesn't matter how many followers you have. It does not matter how much money you have. It doesn't matter what you're wearing. We are still going to have an internal battle of, am I worth it? Am I worth listening to? Am I interesting enough? So my read of the room was actually groundbreaking for me in that, ah, this is something I have to work out internally.

it has nothing to do with my external vanity metrics or numbers because everyone felt like they didn't belong. Now, by the end of the night, I think everyone felt like they did. And that's the power of a room full of women, right? Is everyone was held, right? Like everyone answered, and some people answered more vulnerably than others. But we held each other, right? Like someone cried. And the table was like rallying for her. And she did not have the perfect answer. She had an answer where she was sharing something she didn't know what to do. She was worried and upset and broken. And the table was like, we got you. You can do this. And so that showed me like, one, this has nothing to do with anything but yourself and your own mental game. And it is a mental game to get yourself

to the place to be like, I'm interesting enough. But second, if you're in the room of the right people and the right women that catch you, it doesn't matter about being interesting anymore. You can just answer. You can just be. Something that you said really intrigues me because I a thousand percent agree with you. And I feel that way. There are rooms where I feel super confident, super confident, super ready, super just like I deserve to be here. And then there are a lot of rooms that I feel the same way. And I'm wondering if that's unique to me or if that's unique to specific situations and how do you know which rooms you're going to feel like that and how do you prep for that? And how do you figure out what are the rooms that you need to push yourself in to actually be

able to grow as a person and use that as a learning experience? So I think it's not just a you thing. By the way, I was going to ask, did you feel comfortable in the room? Yeah. Okay. So that was the good thing is I think that was contagious. So I do think that there is emotional contagion happening in every room, and we should be talking about it more. So we typically, as humans, catch emotions from the most alpha person in the room. So you are the alpha. You were hosting, right?

It was your event. You had curated this beautiful group of women. You came in calm, confident, and excited. I literally, like, felt your excitement. Like, you stood up and kind of introduced someone. And you were like, yes. Like, I'm so, I could see, do you see the table like take a breath? They were like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, excited.

It does it ever happen to you when you go somewhere? And then you're like, oh, oh, this is good. I forgot. Like, I forgot this is supposed to be exciting. So the first thing is I think we have to think about what contagion do we want to bring? Like, do we want to be the alpha contagious person? Right. Do we want to go and be like, you know what?

I'm going to make sure that every single person I interact with feels good and calm. My goal that night was to have one-on-one interaction with every single person and make them feel like they belonged. That was my goal. Because I knew I was going to be meeting people that I didn't, didn't know, but I was like, I have a feeling everyone's going to feel scared. Like, that scared doesn't do anything for us. So are you going to be the contagion? Like, are you going to be the one that's like, I'm going to spark excitement or I'm going to spite confidence? Or do you need to catch someone's calm?

Like, do you need to look for a mentor? Do you need to look for a wing woman? Do you need to look for a partner? That, I think, is a way that we can be, it's an interesting backdoor into confidence. You set at the dinner that you own the room by reading it. How do you personally do that? How can I listening to this be like, I need to read rooms better? What am I looking for?

Yeah. Okay. So very tactically, I think of this, you know, like sports. I think that we have to think of socializing like an endurance sport, right? If you are going to go into a room and make a first impression over and over again, maybe even pitch your business idea or pitch yourself, that's shooting your shot, right? Like that's like taking a kick at the goal. Like, we're making sports analogies here, guys, and I'm going to be out of my depth and, like, one more analogy, right?

But we're kicking the ball to the goal. I know that's a sports analogy. And then we have to last, right? We can't just be like, well, I'm too tired. I'm going to go out. No, you have to, like, make it to the end of the night. Okay. So first is a big mistake that people make.

I like to map out rooms is staying in the start zone. The start zone is wherever you are, whatever room you're in, is right when people enter and they're either taking off their shoes or signing in their name tags or just getting started. that is the worst place to stand. And it's the worst place to read the room. And it's a rookie mistake that people make. So when you go into a room, have a target. Like, just like a sport, have a target.

Either it's the host or it's a refreshment, like something that you want in your hand. Or it's looking for the most nervous person. I think that's because the best thing that you can do, the gift that we can give, is helping someone else who's more nervous than us and bring them up with you. So I always look for the person who looks the most uncomfortable and looks awkward. and I'm like, that's my person. And then I'm like, hey, I'm so excited you're here. Tell me all about you.

Like, I want to give them excitement because I know that that's going to also come back to me and we're going to both be in this vulnerable, shared, open, honest space together. So avoid the start zone. That's number one. Number two is I like to look for the most, the person who needs you the most. I think that going in to help and be helpful, my mantra in life is aggressively helpful. Like, I will bully you into helping. I will bully you into changing.

I will do it. And so that energy, I feel like, is my backdoor into confidence. The next way that you read the room is you look for open feet. And this sounds like a really crazy thing. But when someone's in a really good one-on-one conversation, you actually don't want to be the awkward person breaking it up. It's ever happened where you're like talking to someone you're really into it. And usually your feet are on parallel lines.

Your hips and body are in parallel lines. This is a very closed emotional space. You don't want to break that emotional space. it will be awkward for you. Like if someone comes in, they're going to be like, you're looking for people with open body and open feet. I call it croissant feet. Their feet look like a little bit like a croissant, you know?

So if a foot is pointed out, it means they're open to the room and they're like, please come help. Please come save us. So if I don't see someone who's nervous who needs help, I will then look for open croissant feet. Also, like, why not look for croissants? Like, that's a fun way. Easy to remember.

It's an easy way to remember it. I'm not that any of us are reading gluten, but if we did, a gluten-free croissant. I've never found one of those, by the way. Have you ever found a gluten-free croissant? The best. Chopen in Paris. What? Yeah.

Yeah, you need to go. I needed to know that. Needed to know that. Okay, so you're looking for a croissant feed. That's the person who is open-minded to meeting someone. So when I walked into your party, there was already little clusters. I saw people who had clearly knew each other that were catching up. No.

I'm not going to disrupt their flow. They're having a great moment. But I am looking for people who are kind of overhead gazing and they're like, help. Or we don't know what to talk about. Right? And then I'm going to come in, and if you're going to break into a group, you can always say, you guys are looking like you're having so much fun. Can I join? You also can say, oh my gosh, what brings y'all here? How do you know the host? You go in with a very open, positive line. And the last way to read the room, which is what I was really working on that night is micro expressions, is reading facial expressions. So people, when we're afraid, we tend to be very wide-eyed, like that deer in the headlights look, where the whites of our eyes show. When someone flashes the whites of their eyes at you, it means that their amygdala is firing. that they're feeling very nervous. Now, the more I do that, the more nervous it probably makes you. Right. So I calm my lids down and then I'm back into relaxation. If I am seeing someone

during the headlights, I know that they're in some sort of fight or flight and I want to try to calm them down or at least see what made them nervous, right? Like when you asked your conversation charter, I was so happy you were the host and I got to sit right next to you because I was watching faces to see who looked the most scared. And then I said, do you don't ask them first? Like give them a minute to think it through. My lovely interest, Like most of my students are introverts and ambiverts. So they are, they can swing into extroversion when they need to, but they really lean towards smaller groups.

They internally process more alone time. They need more time to process big questions. So we share the question. And then I said, let's, I read the room. I was like, we got to give our introverts time to think it through and think that their answer. And then we'll go around the circle. And that's, I think, being respectfully reading the room.

You said something that I can't stop thinking about, which is how do you do you spot the most nervous person? What are giveaway signs that someone is incredibly nervous? Yeah. Okay. So there's nonverbal signs, vocal signs, and verbal signs. So nonverbally first is when we get nervous, we tend to take up as little space as possible. This is an evolutionary response. So we shrink our head down. We also, the space between our shoulders and our ears shrinks because we're trying to protect our jugular. We also tightly pin our arms to our side. We might even cross our arms in front of us. So you'll see someone who is doing a lot of this. Or they have an object that they're blocking with, so they'll take a purse and they'll hold it in front of their body or they'll tightly hold their clutch to their side.

This is a biological response of trying to take up as little space as possible. Researchers from the University of British Columbia found that athletes across races, when they lose a competition, they crumble in. They tilt their head toward their chest. They usually have a fist script. They have a pained expression. This is exactly what very nervous people look like in social institutions. They literally look like they're trying to be not noticed. So less space.

Tonally, we hear a tightness in the vocal cords. So right now I'm relaxed. You know, we're chatting. We're having good time. If I was nervous, my vocal cords would tense a little bit and I would go up in my vocal power. I would also get a little bit of vocal fry so you would have less volume and intonation. And then if I was really, really nervous, I would go up at the end of my sentences like I was asking. So when you say, hey, it's so nice to meet you, oh, hi.

So really high, lots of less vocal power. That is because without breath and without volume, our vocal cords tighten, and that is a signal of anxiety. And it shows that someone is feeling very anxious and nervous. They literally lost their voice. Again, my goal in social situations, and I think that this is really empowering for introverts is you can actually help other introverts by helping them find their voice. So there's two ways you can do that.

One is you can ask them questions about things they love to talk about. So you can ask them, you know, what are you working on that's exciting these days or any fun and big projects? Or you can take the ball in conversation and you can entertain. Introverts love to be entertained, right? I think you're probably really good at this too. It's like I have stories in my back pocket always, but I know is going to delight an introvert. And so sometimes I'll come into a party just like ready to give them time to just take a deep breath.

You're cool. I accept you. I love you. And so either way, you can go out either way to calm them down. One of the things that's so fascinating to me about that because I am exactly like you. My goal that night was to introduce people that I know could have a phenomenal connection. And like the way I own the room is by introducing others, always finding rapport between people, making sure that people feel comfortable. But something that I think maybe other people can relate to listening to this is sometimes as extroverts, you feel like you have to. fill the silence. And one of the best pieces of advice that my mom gave me when I was growing up was don't fill the silence just because you feel like you have to be the one talking. And especially having the podcast has actually been really helpful for me to learn that skill of like there is power in a pause. There is power in giving other people the floor.

You actually don't need to jump in right away, Maggie, and like let people sit in silence for a bit. And so I'm wondering how you balance that reality of like making other people. people feel comfortable, having those stories that you can share. I think that, like, people won't remember what you said, but they'll remember the way that you made them feel. And for me, that has always been filling the silence. So when you're coaching someone, one of your students, on, like, what is that equation of how often you're jumping in? And then how often you're actually just, like, letting things unfold the way that they should. So there's actually research on this. We need turn taking and conversation. We actually need this. If there's not a

a back and forth, even if the person is telling an amazing story, if there's not a back and forth, there is an inequality that is felt and that lack of reciprocity, you cannot have connection from it. So the good news is, for extroverts, you can take the pressure off in that we actually need the turn taking to be able to spark connection, and you need to give the ball back in a good way. This doesn't have to be necessarily, you know, pelting them with questions. I like very, very small, like confetti phrases that you can drop in that gently toss the ball back

in an easy way. So if someone mentioned something even a little bit exciting or intriguing, oh my gosh, tell me more. Tell me everything. What, that gluten-free croissant? Where, when, how? Right. So, like, it doesn't, you don't have to hold the floor. We can be tossing the ball back very, very casually.

So that's one thing is we do want turn taking. Second, you want to listen for sparks and look for sparks. So when you're in a really good conversation, the other person is doing probably three things. One, it's exactly what you're doing, nodding. Mm-hmm. Apparently I nod too much. Oh, bobbleheading? Mm-mm.

My team said stop doing this all the time. You know what you can do if you'd bobblehead? So I'm also a recovering bobbleheader. So if you feel yourself bobbleheading too much, just head tilt. You can't do both at the same time. Okay. Right? So if you're like...

Because it's also a warmth cue. So, right, we're actually interchanging listening warmth cues. when human behavior is split up into two main frameworks, warmth and competence. So when we're interacting, I'm trying to gauge, can I trust you? Can I rely on you? The faster you can signal those two things, the more charismatic you are. So your warmth cues are telling me, open up to me, trust me. Your competence cues are saying you can rely on me, I'm going to get this done. So nodding is a warmth cue. If you're nodding too much, we can replace it with another warmth cue, which is a head tilt. So that's exposing one ear. So, for example, if I were to give you bad news, it looks better if I give a head tilt.

So let me give you bad news. I'm sorry, I can't do this versus, I'm sorry, I can't do this. Like, even that head tilt in me. That is shocking. That is shockingly different. I know. Microcues, right? So very small signals have big impact.

So what happens is if I'm delivered to you straight on, right, no head movement. I'm sorry, I can't do this. You see no warmth. So your body's like, can't trust, can't trust, can't trust. Right? Like warmth is a fundamental aspect of human behavior. But the moment I tilt my head to the side, I'm actually exposing my ear, which means I'm trying to hear you better, it all of a sudden opens up connection to this is a discussion

I'm here for you. I want you to be able to trust me with this. So when I say, I'm sorry, I just can't do this, you feel like, oh, but the connection is still open and we can talk it through. Very subtle but very powerful. So your head nodding is great. Your head movement is very warm. That's the first thing that we do when we're listening well.

The second thing is an eyebrow raise. Now in the age of Botox, this has gone. But if theoretically we could eyebrow raise, that is a very high warmth cue. We raise our eyebrows up, we change, we get our eyebrows out of the way so we can see more. So if someone raises their eyebrows up, we go, oh, they're really interested. That's another way to be like, ah, they said something great. If they're leaning in, so leaning in is a pre-activation cue. When I lean, we activate the five sentences.

I could smell you better. you better, I could taste you better, I could touch you better, I could smellies, I forgot the last one, the last one of the last five cents, fifth cent is. So I'm, it's pre-activation. If I'm talking and someone goes, what? No way. You just know that I got activated in a way, that's a topic you want to double down on. So for extroverts, if you see head nodding, tilting, eyebrow rays, or leaning in, that's something that they want to hear about or talk about more, and that's where you want to double down. Can I ask you something very tactical about men versus women men? Yes. Because I think you even said it, the Botox conversation. Although I think 25% of Botox is now

being done by men. So that's growing. But specifically with hair and earrings and like little things that women can be doing, what is distracting for people and what is actually elevating your warmth and competence cues for a woman listening to this? Thank you so much for asking. Our ornaments, so when we talk about all these signals, so we're sending more than, incompetence. That happens in four main channels. First, the words we use, the types of words you use signal your warmth and competence. If warm people use words like, yay, fab, whoop, wow. We love emojis and exclamation points, highly warm, but competent people use totally different types of words. They love get it done words, graphs, charts, bullet points. They literally

speak differently. The second channel is our body language, so our facial expressions, my gestures, how I'm moving my body through space. I actually took off my shoes today on purpose. I did. because I wanted more warmth. So I'm always in heels or boots, always, always. But I was like, no, like Maggie is a peer, you know, like the ladies listening, we could be friends. We could be friends. So I'm like, a warmth cue is literally taking off my shoes. Thank goodness my toes are done, right? So that's a warmth cue. That's body language, body language and ornaments. The third one is vocal. So how I say my words that also changes things. Like, for example, if I were to be giving my interview in this tone of voice, Now, when I speak to my daughters, I'm usually much more up here.

And this feels very natural to me, but you would treat me very differently if I was answering questions like this. Right? You would think of me differently. You would approach me differently. You'd probably hug me longer. You would nod differently. But when I'm speaking to my daughters, this is how I speak.

So your tone also affects a lot of that. And the last one is ornaments. So our jewelry, our hair. Here's what you have to remember. Self-touch can be perceived two ways. It can be perceived as nervousness or it can be perceived. is flirtation. So if you don't want to do either of those things, you should not self-touch in any way. And what does that mean? Self-touch is fixing our hair, fixing our earrings, tucking our

hair, tucking our clothes, even wringing our hands, playing with our bracelets. Like, you know, I wore silent bracelets today. I did not wear bangles because I knew that they can't clank, clank, clank, clank, clank, clank, clank, clang, clank. And that, especially for men, is very distracting. And it takes away from your competence. Even though it has nothing to do with competence. In fact, having an expensive bangle could be perceived as more competent. That distraction is almost like an audible self-touch. It's like you're hearing it. So anytime you are self-touching, it's going to read as you are nervous or do you like me? So in a business context, I do not want you self-touching at all. Your hair, your jewelry, your clothing should be able to

live as they are, especially if all eyes are on you, presentations, podcasts, interviews, pitches. Hey, y'all. It's Kelly Clarkson with Wayfair. Ever order furniture online? and wonder what if? Like, what if it doesn't hold up? That sofa was four days old. You should have ordered from Wayfair. With Wayfair, there's no what if. Just style you love and quality you can trust.

Visit wayfair.ca. Wayfair, every style, every home. If you run a business, you know there are moments where you need capital quickly. Maybe there's an opportunity you want to move on or inventory needs to be purchased, or maybe cash flow is a little tighter than you'd like it to be. The annoying thing is financing often feels slow,

confusing and full of things you don't find out until way too late. But our sponsors SoFi and their small business loans are designed to be not only fast, but straightforward too. With a quick digital application, you can check your eligibility in minutes, receive a decision quickly, and if approved, get funding as soon as 24 hours later. One thing I really like is how transparent they are. You see your terms clearly before you accept so you know exactly what you're signing up for. There's also no penalties for paying off your loan early. If you're managing cash flow, investing in growth, or giving your business more flexibility, SOFI can help you access the capital you need so you can stay focused on running your business.

Visit SOFI.com slash HSR loan to learn more and see if the SOFI small business loan is right for your business. That's sophy.com slash HSR loan. I'm in my ludial phase. We all know that point in our cycle where our body is basically like, please do not make this any harder than it needs to be. But during that time, I still want to move my body. I want to go for a walk. I want to get outside, maybe stretch,

but I am not forcing a high-intensity workout when my body is asking for something kinder and softer. And that is where Lulu Lemon just gets it so right. And their groove-relaxed cinch pant is exactly the kind of thing I want to wear on those days. It has this oversized, relaxed fit, so there's actually space for your body to move and breathe. Nothing feels too tight or restrictive.

It's perfect for that lower impact movement. It's made with their Nulu fabric and has a super soft, barely there feeling. I only just learned that when Lulu Lemon does colors, they do it with limited drops, and they sell out so much faster than I realized. Lulu Lemon offers free returns too, so there's never a risk if you decide to change your mind. So head to Lululemon.com to get your hands on their groove-relaxed cinch pant. For women specifically, I think as I've gone, and older and you realize just the amount that we are doing to keep it together all day every day.

Like, we need to simplify this for the women that are listening of like, what are the cues that are the most important when they're showing up in a business setting? Let's start with that first. What are the things that are not as important for them? But it's like, if you can't work on decision making for these today, it is okay. That can be in the future. And then we can go into the other areas of our life, but let's really start with that business. Okay. So first, there are a 90s. 57 cues to choose from. So you have a lot of choice here. You want to start with the cues that feel most natural to you.

The last thing I want you to do is be inauthentic. And if there are cues, like for example, one of the cues I teach is a steeple cue, which is when you touch the tips of your fingers together, this is a very, it was rated as that most charismatic hand gesture. It's like a power pose for the hands. I feel a little silly doing it, to be honest with you. It's actually on my book cover, which is so funny. I did that freaking photo shoot and I took one picture with the steeple.

My publisher was like, that's the one. And I was like, what? Which is so funny because it's like, I actually am like, like when I do it, I feel like I'm like talking to the moon, like a little bit. But some people love it. So that for me is not a cue that I want to do, right? So you have 97 cues to choose from. And luckily, women especially are already super good at this.

Like you are, we are so dynamic. We are so like chameans. For example, you know, we have my cousin and your mutual friend, Sam. Sam Cox, we love you. Yeah. Okay, so my cousin, we didn't even know we had this connection until like today. So Sam went on Shark Tank, right? Sam on Shark Tank is very different than Sam hanging out by the pool. On purpose, women know this. We know that if we have to go on Shark Tank and pitch our business, we're going to dial up the competence and the warmth at first, right?

So we are already doing this. I want us to be purposeful with it. So first, your first six seconds. This is the most important aspect of any interaction, especially high stakes. All my women who are leading businesses, hiring, negotiating, raising VC funds. The first six seconds are everything. In fact, I would even go as far to say, the person you are pitching to decides everything about you in the first six seconds and the rest of the meeting is them just justify in that opinion. So your first six seconds need to be very purposeful.

The moment someone first sees you is when your first impression starts. It's not the moment you start talking. Let's look at Shark Tank, for example. I like to watch just the entrance on Shark Tank, and I can almost always predict if that entrepreneur is going to get a pitch. Because as they walk down the hallway and they have their first word, high sharks, morning sharks, that tells them everything. One, did they take up space while they walked?

Right. So, like, were they hunched over, taking up a little space as possible? Did they show their palm? We love a palm, especially in the first six seconds. So whenever I hop on video, hop on camera, walk into a room, when I'm doing any kind of high stakes, Morning. Good to see everyone. Thank you so much for having me. It's actually biological. We like to see an open palm because it shows we're not hiding anything. Is this why Taylor Swift always does performances like this? Constant. I think she actually is so naturally charismatic that she doesn't even realize why it works. She just knows it works.

But that is why you're constantly very highly charismatic people. They're always constantly palm up. And that is because, you know, think about, you know, caveman days. If you can't see someone's hands, like if I were to do the entire interview with my hands, But no, my trust immediately goes down. So if I have my hands, women do this, they tuck their hands into their legs, I'm like, no, especially in their first six seconds, or they use chairs without armrests. I'm like, no. Because an armrest makes me take up more space, right? Like even having the pillow here helps. By the way, your arm looks skinnier if your arm's out.

Obviously. Obviously, exactly. You've got to have that out, like pop it out, yes. For many reasons we should use armrests. So palm, taking up space, especially this distance. My favorite distance is the distance when your ear and your shoulder. We want to maximize this as much as possible. It actually makes you look more competent and confident.

Then your very first word. I don't care what the rest of your intonation is. I want it to be in the lowest end of your natural range. Listen to the difference. Morning. Morning. Who do you want to listen to? Second one.

Absolutely. We get to be purposeful with this. Right. So if I don't want to speak up much in a meeting, my high might be morning. Right? Like, my flavor that day is, like, haven't had my coffee. Don't want to talk first. So if I come in with, like, morning.

I don't want, so we can be intentional with this, right? We're already very good at this. So hands, space you take up, intuition, do not hold your breath on your first word. This is the biggest mistake I see when I make. They go, good to see you. Or they answer the phone. Hello? Hello?

Do not hold your breath and speak at the top of your breath. It makes you sound little. It makes you sound naive and it gives away all your competence. I don't care what you say next, but speak on the out breath. So morning, hello, good to see you. So don't hold your breath and go really high. If you nail those first six seconds, everything else is easier. Those are the cues that matter the most.

So you said the first six seconds, but people are making this impression about you before you even say anything. What are people judging before you even speak in that first second? six seconds. They're trying to decide, can I trust you and can I rely on you? Right? Like, warmth and competence makes up 82% of our impressions of people. 82%. So you can practice the most impressive stories, the funniest stories, the best numbers. And I have a lot of women who go into pitches and they're like, I have the perfect presentation. I'm like, great, show me your stage entrance. They're like, what? And they come on and they're holding a bunch of things or they're

not sure what to do. They don't want to plant or they're pacing. And I'm like, it doesn't even matter what's in your pitch and presentation, I've already decided if I can trust you and I can rely on you. So we're trying to answer those two questions. Can I trust you? Can I rely on you? And then everything else backs that up. That's what we're trying to decide in those first six seconds. And is that being decided by what you're wearing, the way that you carry yourself, if you have multiple bags? What are people actually looking at to decide if they can trust you and if they can rely on you? All of those things. Unfortunately, all of those things. Right? So everyone can't have the same cues, otherwise we'd look robotic. So there is some research that shows that one bag is ideal. So we don't like multiple bags, which is like sort of a silly thing. But that shows you're put together. Comfortable in your clothes is another thing that's hard to measure. But I think people know what I mean. If you're in shoes that are uncomfortable, that actually ricochets through your entire body. It ricochets through your face. I actually didn't interview one time with a woman who was so competent. It was going so well. But occasionally she would make these

very weird micro expressions. And I was like, you know, I'm just going to ignore it. I'm going to bring her back. The second interview, I was like, she was so relaxed and great. And I was like, hey, your first interview, were you nervous to meet me? And she was like, oh my gosh, I was wearing my roommate's heels and they hurt so bad. And every time I, like, moved my feet, they would like pinch and I had blisters. And it was like, so ever since then I'm like, you have to be comfortable in your clothes. One of the reasons why even, like, I changed today is I was like, I think I'm going to want to sit like Maggie. Also, I like to mirror you. Like, mirroring is next level. So we talk about cues. Mirroring is a way to show.

nonverbal respect. So when we are sitting casually, and whenever I watch your interviews, you're sitting casually, I was in a beautiful but very formal silk pink dress earlier. And I was like, I'm not going to be able to relax like Maggie. And I want to be on the same page as her. I want you to feel comfortable. I want the listeners to feel comfortable. And so mirroring and matching ornaments and clothes, mirroring and matching nonverbally, like I'm nodding more with you than I would with Stephen Bartlett. Like I nod way less with him. Right. I have more body movement with you because you're also moving and also that feels natural to me. I also think that I'm matching your tone of voice. I think our tone is actually the same right now by accident.

That's an accidental cue. So the more we can mirror and match also, the better. Let's say you don't nail the first six seconds. Can you recover? Yes, you can recover in the same interaction or second interaction. Same interaction. Okay, so first forget it and move on. Like, don't let that be baggage for you. Like, social overall. If you're socially overthinking, oh my gosh, I messed up that first impression, it is going to read on your face, your body, and your voice. So forget it. Like literally delete it. It cannot affect you anymore.

Do not let it be make you negatively contagious. What's going to convince someone next? High credible competence. Amazing data. Amazing metrics. Amazing numbers. Amazing credentials. Right?

Like we can be blown away. We in our brain, we have rules for this, right? Like, in our brain, we might see someone who is really awkward but smart and go, well, makes sense. Like, we recognize that. So, fine, blow them away with your insane competence. Or insane warmth. Vulnerability.

A share. An emotional story that's surprising. We also have a rule for this. If someone made a bad first impression, but then they share an incredibly vulnerable story about themselves, we're like, oh, okay, makes sense. So be the exception to the rule. We do have exceptions to the rule. They're more rare.

But you have to make sure that, okay, if you did not nail that first six seconds or worse, you had a bad interaction on a video call or a phone call first, be the exception to the rule with blow them out with competence, show up and know your stuff and blow them away with your cred, or blow them away with warmth, raw, honest vulnerability, emotional stories that shock and delight and surprise them. How important is it for you to be likable versus being yourself to get what you want? I think you always have to be yourself. I think it's impossible to be likable inauthentically for a very long time. You can do it for a little. Like, you may be able to trick someone in a reel. You may be able to trick someone in like a very short meeting. But there's no way that you cannot be yourself and be liked for the long term.

First of all, it's exhausting, right? Have you ever tried to not be yourself to be something that someone wants out of you? Like, it's exhaust. It's exhausting. Especially if you're an ambivor, like, I can't fake it. Like, if I'm going to fake it, you're going to be found out. And I'm going to be like, I can't, this won't last. So I think it's always more important to be yourself.

And if that means people don't like you for it, they're not your people. Right? Like they're not your people. What will get someone to like you more? Is it body language or is it being a great conversationalist? Being a great conversationalist. So how do you do that? Being a great conversationalist, the mistake that we make is trying to be impressive.

Right. So we think, I have to ask really hard-hitting questions. I have to have really impressive, funny stories. And actually, that tends to create distance in conversation. Have you ever had this where you're with someone and they're, like, performing for you? And you're like, this is hilarious, but, like, I don't feel a connection. And so I think that being a great conversationalist is actually finding, I call them, like, Me Too moments.

Like, the more we can be like gluten-free croissants, girl, right? Like, that's like a moment of connection. Or like, we can be like, oh, bare feet, thank goodness. Or we can be like, oh, my gosh, isn't it so hard to try to try to. adjust yourself to be likable. So I think that it's actually trying to find with someone, what are all the things that we can celebrate together or be vulnerable together or even shared pain points together? Me Too moments are where connection happens. And I think that that is the most likable thing you can do, whether it's good or bad, you're sharing. That that builds bridges.

One of my least favorite things that people ask me when I walk in anywhere is, and what do you do? What are those common phrases that people can pull out and be like, I'm going to ask these two or three things instead of what do you do. So we want to pick questions that are still casual, still approachable, but not too deep. So I like a swap. Not how are you? Not what do you do. What do you like to do? Just adding the word like, what do you like to do? Or not what do you do working on anything exciting these days? Like even if I didn't know you and didn't know what you did, if I said to you working on anything exciting these days, you could tell me what you're working on or you could choose something totally different.

I also like a question that I heard that I use all the time is, how's the empire? Because no matter what someone does, their world is their empire. And they will answer that in all kinds of unique and interesting ways. So how's the empire? What do you like to do working anything exciting? And then what about the answer side swaps? Okay, so this takes a little bit of planning. I like to break scripts with How Are You?

So when somebody asks me, how are you? I like to wake up the conversation a little bit with like a little bit of surprise. So I like to give someone a number. So I might be like, three out of ten on the scale. So only my coffee. And they're like, three at three. What? Three out of ten.

Like you're just like, wait. And I'm like, what's your number? And like that, it totally changes the game. They usually laugh. That was so flirty. It was so flirty. Yeah. No, flirting would have been like, I'm an eight girl.

That would have been flirty. A three is not flirty. No, the way you said. What's your number? Okay, well, good. I flirt with everyone. That's good. I like it.

Okay, so you can answer with a number. I also think you can answer honestly here. Like, yes, honesty. I think we forget that we don't have to be on social scripts. If someone asks you, how are you? And you're like, good, but busy. But actually you're losing your mind and you're having a really hard day. Like, be honest.

I think it's okay to be like, it's been a doozy of a week. ask me later today. Or you know what? It's been a rough one this morning. My seven-year-old decided not to go to school. Right? Like, I think we can answer honestly, so comfortably. But if you're having a bad day, share you're having a bad day, you could take less than 10 words.

If you're having the best day ever, say, you know what? It's a fantastic day. Thanks for asking. Right? I think we forget that we can be honest with these answers. What do you do is another one. I also don't like this one. I'm developing this for my next book.

So I have a formula for how I want you to answer that question. I actually think it's the biggest opportunity we have in our career. Every single time, you're going to be asked this question thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of times in your lifetime. You should be nailing the answer to this question every time. If you are not nailing me answer to that question, you are missing opportunities. Because you never know when someone asking could be your next client, your next hire, your next partner, your next referral.

you don't know who you're speaking to, so you want to make sure that you're nailing it. And it's really important to have a very specific way to answer it in a way that hooks people in, but also is truthful. So I don't work it on it. You can't reveal what the equation would be? Not yet. Can you give us one thing that we can say when someone asks us, what do we do to nail that opportunity and don't let it go to waste? What can people do that feel like they're in that building phase? They don't have their empire yet.

Right. What are they saying to communicate something? bigger than what it feels like they're doing right now. Okay, so here is, I hope that you will workshop this log line. I want you to workshop it. And it does take some like trial and error, right? This is a very important opportunity that you have. What is the question that you want someone to ask you next?

That is actually how you're going to build your elevator pitch. Meaning, when you said, I just have a podcast or I have a podcast. What was the question people usually asked you? What's it called? Right. So that doesn't get you anywhere. It's a dead end. Then you can say, oh, it's called Hot Smart Rich.

Well, what is that? It creates like a very negative no ladder, right? Like a very like, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, oh, oh, uh, uh, uh. Like I don't like conversations that sound like that. That's a bad interaction. It's called a no ladder, right? What you want to think is what do I want to talk about next? What is the question that I want to give their brain to ask?

So for example, I like to say I'm a best selling author because I want them to ask me, what What are your books about? Because that's my favorite topic, right? So what is the question that you want them to ask? And then reverse engineer your answer to that. And by the way, if you're in transition or pivoting, we love this. This is the ultimate hero story. If you are transitioning, say, you know, by day I'm a blank, but I'm moonlining as a blank.

You know, I'm in transition. I've been doing this for 10 years, but I have big dreams too. You can give someone the hero's journey. My favorite kind of elevator pitch answer, my favorite kind of answer is when you tell someone your hero's journey. A hero's journey is I had a challenge or a problem. I was started somewhere. I learned something.

I did something. I tried something. And I'm either going here or I already am here. Right? Like my log line, I'm a recovering awkward person. I write books. People see right there my hero's journey or I'm a recovering awkward person and I write books for smart awkward people.

can literally see the journey that I took, right? Like I started not knowing how to connect and communicate with people. I had to learn how to do it now. I communicate with it. So what is the hero's journey that you can give someone else so they want to buy into it? We create raving fans or amazing friends when they are on their journey with you. And so I think a mistake that we make is we feel like it has to be perfectly polished. Like I don't like the loglines that create no questions. Right? Like the answers to create no questions is like, I'm a fifth grade teacher, what is the other person going to do with that? Or, oh, I'm just in marketing. What is someone going to do with that? Oh, I'm starting a nonprofit. You have to give them

the question that you want them to ask and also take them on the journey with you. There is no better feeling as an entrepreneur than hearing that sound. Am I right? Especially when you're in the depth of setting up and building a business. Shopify's, cha-ching, is a reminder that you're on the same entrepreneurial journey as everyone else who's building something and when you're in the early phase of starting something having a platform with tools that help you streamline any part of your setup and back end is a huge unlock you get everything in one place your inventory payments shipping orders and reporting all of it and whether you want to sell online or in person it has

everything you could need to make that happen it also grows with you whatever stage your business is at. So if you haven't already, sign up for your $1 per month trial at Shopify.com slash HSR and get ready to hear that's Shopify.com slash HSR. There are certain expenses in life that are so automatic you never really think about them. For example, rent and mortgage payments. The same amount goes out every month and you don't give it a second thought, but you should. Think about this. If you're already making this big payment every month and you could get something back for it, why would you not? And this is exactly what our sponsor, Built, does. Whether you rent or own, Built lets you earn points every time you make

rent or mortgage payments. Then you can put those points towards flights, hotels, lift rides, Amazon.com purchases, and more. And getting started is really easy. You download the built app, link your credit or debit card, then use Built Neighborhood Concierge, which can sort restaurant reservations for you or get you booked into fitness classes. And quite a lot more. To download the Bilt app and join the membership for where you live, head to joinbilt.com slash hsr. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com slash H-S-R. What are the other things that separates highly successful people from a communication, leadership, body language perspective than people that will just never get there? I've said the last two decades studying highly charismatic people. And highly charismatic people are typically very successful

people. So that's the first thing to realize is that highly successful people invest in their communication. Highly successful people know that whatever their technical skill is, whether that's building a business or selling a product, if they are very, very good with people, that's going to help whatever their project is. Being a very effective communicator is already a baseline for success. The second thing is, I think that highly successful people are ruthless about what they are good at and what they are bad at. And I've noticed that highly effective people are constantly labeling themselves out loud and saying what they are very good at.

And this sort of weirdly comes back to them. It serves them. So they'll say things like even in the boardroom, like I'll hear people say, you know, I'm a wizard with spreadsheets. So I figured out. Or I am so analytical that is my superpower. Or I am super organized. I'm your girl for.

Like self-labeling is actually a very powerful thing. thing that I don't think enough people do and highly successful people are very good at this. They're almost giving other people the language they want people to use for them. So I would ask yourself, what do you wish people were saying about you? I kind of asked you that earlier. I think everyone should know their answer to this question and you should be using it in your own language, right? What do you want people, your boss, your colleague, an investor to say about you behind your

back? Like what's the best thing they could say about you? Are you saying that about yourself in your bio, in your elevator? pitch when you're talking about yourself. The kind of problems and solutions that we publicly claim, like saying, like, I love to solve this problem or I want to take on this project shapes how people think and feel about you. And I think successful people are very good at naming their power and naming the problem and then claiming it. One of the questions I actually get asked the most from this community is women that have relocated themselves to a new city. They're in

their 20s. They're in their 30s. They don't have the family commitments yet. They don't have their kids, they're actually trying to make friends. And they're met with women like me who have a social network, who can barely keep it together. I can barely respond to my friends. I actually don't have time for new friends. And so a lot of the questions that I'm getting is, well, how do I make friends when I'm going into an environment and people already have their circles? They already have their connections. How are those women getting a community together, finding their people? Okay, I could talk about this all day because I love it. And I think it's so important. So first, just mechanically, I just want to talk about a logistics thing.

Psychologically, you're better off front-loading hours. What I mean by this is a coffee every three weeks for one hour, it will not build a long friendship. Even if you put in 200 hours of that, it's the same thing and it's too spread out. If you think someone could be a potential friend, you're actually better off hanging out a lot in the first two weeks and front-loading as many hours as possible. What I mean is, this is very counter, and you're welcome to send them this episode and be like, look, Vanessa said, I really like you, we got a front loader hours. If you like someone at, like, you meet the Medellate class and you're like, hey, do you want to grab lunch later?

And that goes well. Do you want to go on a hike tomorrow morning? If that goes well, you know, I was thinking of like driving up to L.A. this weekend to do this vintage shop. Do you want to come with me? Like, get the reps in quick because, one, you will learn if they're your person faster. I don't know about you, but I've had sometimes very slow burn. starts to friendships where it takes me months to figure out, like, we're not actually not that

similar or we're not that aligned. I would much rather front stack to figure out, are we doing this thing? Like, do we have a good match? It's just like dating, right? Like, the more you do in varied context, the more you're going to figure out, do you have the same core values? Do you have fun together? Can they ride with you?

Like, I, in Austin, I would sometimes take women to this really, really hippie-dippy, like, cafeteria just to see how they would do with me with it because it was, like, really weird. And, like, the women who could laugh at it with me, I was like, what? we're going to get along really well. So, like, what are the context that you could take them to to be like, hey, are we on the same vibe? Like, are we on the same page? And front load.

Frontstock. Don't spread it out over two or three weeks. Try to do as many as possible early. That's just logistically speaking. That actually works better to build friendships quickly. Next, I think the only way to fit into people's busy schedules. So if you're coming to a new place, which is literally just happened to me. So I'm in this with you.

It's very hard to create new time blocks. It's hard to look at a busy person and be like, we should hang out because you're like, I don't got time to hang out. Like, when would we even do it? No, you want to ask, where are you already hanging out? When do you always go to that yoga class? When are you always doing that thing? Do you have any weekly or monthly traditions that you do?

Hey, like, do you do a big grocery shop and food prep on Sunday? Great. Let's do it together. What are people already doing in their schedule and how can you lock into that? So I love women who are on the same workout routine as me. I do walk-in talks. So walk-and-talks are like, you know, whenever I'm walking, I walk at almost the same time every day.

And I have friends that also walk at that same time. Super easy. Either I call them or they're with me. So are there ways you can fit into their schedule that already exists? And then lastly, this is weird, but I think you want to look for other new people, too. Wherever you moved, there are other people who just moved to. Now, they might not be your exact same age. And it might not be your exact same interests.

but they're also open social schedule. So go where new people go when they get to a city. Ask other people you know who are really busy. Do you know anyone else who's recently moved here, like in the last few months or a year? You are going to be a social savior for them. Right. Like you also can be the greeter of new people coming to the city if you make it known that that's what you're really good at. I got that same advice when I was the only friend in my friend group that was going to be single after calling off an engagement.

And my friend said to me, I'm going to give you some really tough love. You need to meet single friends because all of your friends are in relationships. They're all taken and you're going to constantly be left out of double dates. You're going to constantly feel bad about yourself versus enjoying being single because you're around people that love to be single. Yeah. One of the things that I had to ask is it really did come up for me because I often in dating relationships would find myself being love bombed by this what you're talking about very, very fast. very front-loaded relationships where it was like, oh, my God, I'm spending every single day with you. None of those ended up working out.

So is there different data and science between friendship front-loading and dating front-loading? Very much. Very much. Because the connection that you have romantically is physically based and physical lust has a very different chemical feeling than the slow build of a non-sexual relationship. Right. So if you're front-loading with a physical relationship, you're overwhelmed with all. the chemicals that come with the kisses and the touching and the oxytocin and the hand holding, that physicality is going to completely change your body where you're ignoring the red flags.

Right? Like frontloading and love bombing in a relationship, you're like, oh my gosh, this feels so good or doesn't. And so you get distracted by it. With a friendship, you're frontloading quality time. There's no kissing. There's no hand holding. Not usually right.

Not a friendship. So you're frontloading depth of conversation. If you're going on a three-hour hike with someone, or it's the week after you met and you decided to do a little road trip, you have hours of, do we have the same taste in music? What do we talk about when it's silent? Do we both fill the silence in the same way? We have to stop on the side of the road. Where do you pick?

Where's your go-to? Do we snack the same? Like, you are very quickly knocking down all those hurdles that can just be kind of weird things in a relationship. They're not friendship killers. but they very quickly allow you to have Me Too moments. Oh, you love that place? I love that place too.

This playlist is incredible. Oh my gosh, can we actually stop at this winery? I've been dying to try it. Yes, I've been done and trying to. Like, it gives you more opportunities for those Me Too moments, which are, it's very different in than a physical relationship. I think we also learn a lot about friendships from these parisocial relationships of friendships that we've seen.

So what I've, I don't really watch reality TV, but what I've identified is there's shows built on friendship, right? Summer House. even some of like the real housewives. Real house wives. Yeah. Friendships. Have you heard of this new group on social media called The Four and the Five?

Mm-mm. They have blown up. It's these four girls that live in the five boroughs of New York City. Okay. And people are obsessed with the dynamic of these female friendships. And it reminds me not because the characters are replicating sex in the city, but it reminds me of that infatuation of like watching friendships on screen. And almost vicariously.

living through these types of dynamics. Obviously, you haven't heard of the four and the five, but I guess like the making of a cake of an amazing friendship group. What does that look like? I've had in my life a couple of amazing friendship groups, but then someone moves or I move. I've moved a lot. Okay, so what I think makes an exceptional friendship group is actually diversity of personality. I think this is the same thing with like sex in the city. It's the same thing with any of those friends. What do you like about watching those friendships? What make those friendships work is that everyone has their own like schstick, if they have their own thing. I think a mistake that we can make is we try to make friends exactly like us. We can have

similar interests. But if everyone's an extrovert, no one gets a word in, right? If everyone is hyper-organized, then everyone's going to compete with their agendas and their plans. I actually think it's great in a personality group to have, like, everyone's unique and diverse personality. So, like, you have the extrovert of the group. They're always the one who are rainmaking for you. You have the introvert of the group. They're the deep listener who you call when you just need to, like, vent. You have the person who's the planner. That's always me. Right. Like, you have, like, the planner who's hyper-organized and loves to take charge. You have the person who's the spontaneous one. We don't need a plan, but let's be spontaneous.

And they keep you fun, right? Like, diversity of personality and a friend group is so under-talked about and such a great thing. And we actually want to honor different personality types because we need all types of personality types to succeed. Is there something that we have not talked about today that you would be sad to leave your first appearance of Hot Smart Rich on because you'll be back without talking about? Yes. I want to talk about dream jobs.

So the question that I get the most often, I feel so interesting to hear the questions you get. The question I get the most often is, you have a really cool job. Did you create it? How do I create my dream job? And I think that people do the wrong thing where they follow their passion.

Stop following your passion. It will not lead to your dream job. In fact, if you try to monetize your passion, the passion will go away. Money and passion, they just do not stick. Anytime someone monetizes something they love, I'm like, oh, sad death for that passion. Because after a while, it's really hard to separate that. Also, we tend to burn out on our passion. Passion comes in a burst.

It comes all at once. And then over time, when you're stuck doing it for 10, 20 years, it can get really old. So, for example, I've been doing this job for 20 years. I've been posting on YouTube since 2007, a video a week since 2007. If I followed my passion, I would be burnt out. Right. I am very interested in what I do. And there's a matrix here.

So I just created this framework for literally my friend who is trying to recreate her dream job. She's been in the same job for a long time. And she's like, I'm successful but unhappy. I'm successful, but I'm exhausted. I'm successful, but like something is missing. And so I wanted to break this down for your audience. I'm super excited.

Okay. So the very first ingredient, the very first circle that I want you to think about is actually mastery or capability. So sorry, my handwriting is like terrible. I also type all the time now, so I forget. So the very first thing that you have to think about is what are you exceptionally good at? This is not what you love. This is not your passion.

This is not what you love doing. These are the tasks that when you do them, time disappears. These are the tasks that you just do better than other people. These are the tasks that when you do them, you hit flow. I want you to try to make a list of all of the tasks, like down to the smallest, that make you feel capable, super capable that you are better at than most people. That is actually the first ingredient of a dream job. The second ingredient is the one that we think about the most next is salary.

Yes, we have to make enough money to pay our bills. The question that I always ask with salary is, what is the amount of money? that will make you feel like you've made it. So like what is the track that will make you feel like I've earned it? I'm where I'm supposed to be. Could the salary hit that track? So you want to feel extremely good at what you do, but you also want to make sure that you make enough money to cover your bills. And there's a track to feeling that you've made it.

Like some of my friends who have jobs that don't have a track, I ask them, would you ever feel like you've made it in this job? They're like, I'm never going to be able to afford the vacation that I want. And I know that it's going to be almost impossible for them. Like, for example, some of my friends are teachers. And I'm like, I love it. You have super mastery. They have a couple of other circles. They're like, I know I will never make enough money to be able to have the life I want.

I'm like, something is missing there. You have to add something to that. So mastery, salary. The next one is social. I'm sure you're not surprised. You can feel incredible at your job. You can make the most amount of money. If you hate your boss, you're not happy.

You can be very masterful. You can have the most money. If you hate your coworkers, you're not happy. Investing in work relationships that help you be your best self. They do not have to be your best friends. You don't have to have a work bestie. But for the people you interact with on a daily basis, specifically the five, the five people you interact with on a daily basis, do they help you be your best self?

If the answer is yes, you've mastered social. You can be at ease around them. And that's the most important measure. And the last one, the most important one is meaning. This is the one that we often forget. These are the jobs that I think I see the most burnout in. You feel really capable. You're freaking great at your job.

You make a great amount of money. Your team is awesome, but it's meaningless. You're not helping anyone. You don't feel like you have a purpose. You feel like all those things that you're masterful at, what is it even for? Finding meaning in your tasks. And by the way, that could be in service of the team. I think that a lot of people, it's great if you can help people, but even having meaning

around supporting your team or making enough money so you're creating payroll. Like, for example, at my company, it is really important to me that we have an incredible team that's paid well, that I can really healthily support my payroll. That's an important part of my meaning. Yes, I want to help people publicly, but having a team that feels like they can pay their bills and have a living wage is very important. So what is your meaning? These, I think, are the four circles that I wish we talked about more. I think that they create this sort of like middle thing, if I can be really corny and like, I think that is actually where like our heart comes in our dream jobs.

It's interesting too because I'm a lot of really successful people that they have the mastery, the seller, the social, but because they lack meaning it's that saying of like some of the richest people that you know are the most unhappy people. Yes. Yes. Do you see that? Yes. So one of my dear friends sold a business for an ungodly amount of money, like so much money,

super good at his job, made a huge sell out, you know, huge sold his business, loves his team, has a great group of friends. And he said, I have to start over. I said, why? he's like, I feel like I have no legacy. I was like, but you sold this incredible business. He's like, yeah, it's a software company. Like, it's not helping anyone.

He feels like he hasn't made it. Even after all that, because he feels like he has no legacy. He has not contributed to the world. He has no meaning. So he's starting from scratch with a new business with this first. Because he went too long without adding the meaning back into his job, without adding the meaning back into his day to day. We didn't really get the chance to talk about money a ton today.

But I am interested just on that point as like people are thinking about their dream job. and we are so surrounded in culture now of money. And I'm interested in your thought on does money buy happiness? I think a certain amount of money buys happiness because we are comfort creatures. We have to have a certain amount of comfort. And especially now, our bar for comfort is very high. And this is the problem that I don't know how to solve. And I worry for all of us, which is to have a good night's sleep.

We need to have a perfect mattress and a thing that measures our sleep and our melatonin and our magnesium. Oh, yeah, we should sauna beforehand. We should have great ear plugs and we should have the great eye masks. Like, even just the things that are required for a free thing we do, which is sleep, now the cost to make that optimize is incredibly high. And that's in every area from our skin to our sleep, to our nails, to our vitamins. And so I worry that we feel that money has to buy happiness because to do it.

Because to be able to do the basic things, now the cost to entry for that is so high. And I don't know what we're going to do about that. We'll have to have you come back on to talk about it. Money. Yes. Vanessa Van Edwards, let's do some fun rapid fire. Okay. What is the last thing you put on your credit card?

Last thing was I did a splurge at Nordstrom rack. It really makes more than Nordstrom rack. Yeah. This was today or yesterday. Yesterday? With my sister. Okay. What is a dream purchase you want? Oh.

I really want a really good. expensive massage chair. I just love massages. I feel like if I got a really, like, those like 10 grand one, yes. I want one of those so bad. Sponsor me. I like do all my videos in a massage chair from now on. I want one of those so bad. You can only pick one to meet a friend in real life for the rest of your life. Are you going to a workout class or a coffee shop? Workout class. Oh my gosh. I don't believe in coffees with friends. Hot take. Coffees with friends are so much conversational work. If you're doing something, it's so much easier to talk and fit in. Workout class for sure. Okay. What tells you more about a person? Eye contact or a body

language? Body language. Anyone can make eye contact. Like, liars are taught this too. Eye contact doesn't tell you much, but body language tells you a lot. You can only work for one person for the rest of your life. Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg? Elon Musk. For sure. For sure. I feel like I would We'd like vibe with him actually. I love like awkward smart. Yes, we would vibe. What is the reality TV show that has the best body language between the cast? Real House of Beverly Hills.

Oh, Raja Meach is so good. Real House of Beverly Hills, they have so many stakes. Like they care so much. And so the body language is just like divine. Who's your favorite character? I mean, Kyle Richards. She's so epic. Oh my God.

You can only communicate using body language. language or hand gestures for the rest of your life? Hand gestures. I love a hand gesture. I mean, I could tell you everything with my hands. Yeah, for sure. Vanessa Van Edwards. What is one HSR love note that you would tell yourself for the rest of your life?

Only one. Does it count if I can say you're exactly where you're meant to be? Like, we're exactly where we're meant to be. You're exactly where you're meant to be. I love that. And if you had to title the season of your life, what would it be called? It's not aggressively helpful because that's my mantra for life. So the season of life.

Hustle girl. Hustle. Love that. Vanessa Van Edwards, where can people find you and how can HsR help you? Oh, I'm Vanessa Van Edwards on all the networks,

Vivian Edwards. And then I write a newsletter. I write it. Me. I hand create this newsletter. It's one social tip every week at Scienceof People.com. It's like my favorite social hack of the week

and I do a conversation charter every week. Thank you so much for coming on. We're going to have to have you back. Yay. Thank you. Thank you.