Hot Smart Rich with Maggie Sellers Reum - Celebrity Social Media Experts On How To Build a Creative Agency For The Stars And How To Go Viral

Episode Date: May 7, 2025

In this episode of Hot Smart Rich, Maggie Sellers sits down with Chloe Sappern and Lydia Berry, the powerhouse duo behind Darlington, the social-first agency trusted by Sofia Richie Grainge, Miranda Kerr, Megan Roup, Serena Kerrigan, Kate Love, Emily DiDonato, Cameron Rogers, Liv Perez, and more. Darlington isn’t just another digital agency—it’s the industry’s best-kept secret, crafting the social presence of some of the most recognizable faces in fashion, beauty, and pop culture. Founded less than a year ago, they’ve grown entirely through inbound demand and referrals. Their work has led to over 1,000% increases in views, 2,000% growth in likes and shares, and double-digit follower growth for A-list clients in just a few months. Key Takeaways: Social is a non-negotiable. If you’re not on Instagram or TikTok, you’re missing the moment. Whether you’re building a personal brand or a business, consistent content — not perfection — is what drives growth and visibility. White space is an invitation. Chloe and Lydia saw a gap in how celebrities and creators were being supported online and built a talent business that met the moment. The biggest brands often start where no one else is looking. Start scrappy, not silent. Your first TikTok might flop. Your second might go viral. But you won’t know unless you post. Trial reels, cross-platform testing, and messy momentum are how personal brands gain traction. Your strategy should reflect your life — not just the algorithm. Instagram Stories, TikTok trends, and behind-the-scenes content can all work if they align with your energy and goals. There’s more than one way to win online. “Date” your co-founder before you commit. Starting a business together is a bigger deal than signing a lease. Chloe and Lydia tested their dynamic first — and found out their complementary strengths made them stronger. Complementary skill sets matter more than matching aesthetics. The best co-founder relationships (especially in fast-moving industries like social and creator marketing) are built on different perspectives, not just shared vibes. The future of talent is hybrid: part agency, part social strategist. Chloe and Lydia aren’t just managing creators — they’re helping talent show up strategically on TikTok, Instagram, and beyond. -- ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ If you like what you hear, rate, review, and subscribe to Hot Smart Rich, the podcast supporting women who own their worth — in business, wealth, and life. -- 💌 Own your worth — and build the life you want. Subscribe to the ⁠Hot Smart Rich newsletter,⁠ the no-BS guide to startup life, consumer brands, and becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self, written by Maggie Sellers. Join 250,000+ women building wealth, confidence, and community on their own terms. Subscribe here: https://hotsmartrich.com/subscribe -- Follow Maggie here: Instagram: @maggiesellers TikTok: @maggiesellers_https://www.tiktok.com/@maggiesellers_ LinkedIn: Maggie Sellers ShopMy: Maggie Sellers Amazon Storefront: maggiesellers -- Follow Darlington, Lydia, and Chloe here: Instagram: @atdarlington Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Okay, you guys, Chloe Soppern, Lydia Berry. Are you ready to get hot, smart rich? Yes. So ready. I'm so happy we're finally here. How do you guys feel? We were just saying Lydia's been nervous for a month now. You know why?

Because I feel like there's more pressure because I used to work at a podcast network. So I feel like I have pressure to know what I'm doing, even though I wasn't in the seat. So is this your first podcast? Yes. I'm nervous for you, but I'm going to make it really easy. And it's not your first podcast. No, but I also like, I feel like I could just gab for days. Yeah. Chloe's a good gabber. You guys have a really cute meet cute, which we're going to get into you. But Lydia and I also have a really cute meet cute. Have you told her how we met? I think I probably have the text from you being like, wait. Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to read the story. Okay. From my POV. Yeah. I'm at the airport. I'm flying like 6 a.m. to New York for Fashion Week.

Yeah. And I see this really chic girl next me. You know when you just like see the chic girls at the airport? That was you. I didn't know a picture that for myself. You had like a trench on and like the sambas and like you were cute. Like I was like, oh, she knows what she's doing here. And you sat right next to me.

And I was editing a podcast clip for one of our clients at the time. Because you were still at Dear Media then. I had just left. Okay. I had truly just left. You were editing a video. Yes, I was editing a video. All of us.

And I think you had noticed that it was. is Dear Media branded. And you had just gotten off of the phone call. Literally. Talking about podcast networks. Yes. And you turned to me and you're like, wait, do you work at Dear Media? And I said, no, but I used to like a year ago.

Yeah. I feel like I had just gotten off the phone either with a network or with an editor or something. And we were really like struggling to figure out this whole thing. Because people have asked me to a podcast for years. And it's so much work that I was like, okay, I just need to like figure everything out. And then when I met you, I was like, you told me you were an entrepreneur. a new female founder and like in typical me fashion.

I'm like, how can I help you? What can we do? I was like, let's connect. And then we exchanged a few DMs and now you're sitting in my podcast chair, which is full circle. I love a full circle. But you guys have a cuter meet cute. So talk about your meat cute.

Well, we actually just found out that our meat cute, like we've been telling the story all wrong apparently. So the meat cute that we thought we had was Blair, who used to work at TikTok and she was head of public figures. Okay. I had a call with her because I was doing this kind of on my own at the time. And she said, you should really talk to this girl, Lydia. She's based out in L.A.

Like, you guys are doing something similar. And I was like, oh, I'd love to meet with her. I don't know anyone else that's, you know, kind of doing the social celebrity stuff, not in front of the camera. I mean, ironic now we're in front of the camera. But for the most part, I slid into Lydia's DMs, which I feel like is, like, what everybody does these days. Yeah. And we spoke, and it was great.

But then, like, I was in New York and she was in L.A. And then a couple months later in April, I was like, hey, I'm coming to L.A., like, if you want to grab coffee. And I had a place out in L.A. And she was like, great. Like, I'm in Brentwood. I was like, same. She was like, I'm on Darlington. I was like, same.

And we realized that we were like actual next door neighbors essentially living these parallel lives. I could throw a baseball to her apartment. That's crazy. And so I was like, oh, do you want to go to the Alfred that we both go to every day? And we had coffee. And I think it was like, what, an hour and a half? Yeah, it was a long. And then afterwards, literally the end of coffee, I was like, do you want to be my business partner?

Let me just like ask about that because I think it's so rare, especially for women listening that like are taking the jump and going and being an entrepreneur to like almost become best friends and business partners with like what could look at its competition. Totally. So it's shocking to me to hear that after just an hour and a half in a Zoom call, you were like, let's partner up and do this. Like, why? Here's why. Because we both immediately recognized the white space in this, I guess, industry you could say. I was only maybe a month, two months in at the point that we went to coffee, and I was swamped with, you know, freelance celebrity clients.

Like, I could see how big this could get and could be. And already I knew that there was no way I could do that on my own. And it was, and it still is, uncharted territory. I wanted somebody to help me. Yeah, I think we were very aware of the way that it had been working and honestly is still working is what we do and the services that we offer are not provided. in-house at agencies because they have too many clients to say, oh, for all 40,000 of our talent, you have a social strategist.

Like, that's just not feasible. But if it's in-house, they can't deny that offering then to one of their talent. And so that's why they outsource it. So you basically have these agents or these managers or these publicists saying to their clients, here's a list of names, go off and see, like, who's a good fit for you. And so Lydia and I were both very aware that, like, both of our names, let's say, would be on that list. And we would chat with the same people or we'd have the same conversations.

And I was like, well, instead of doing it on our own, like, we're so much stronger together, my lease was running up in L.A. I needed some L.A. support. But I think, too, I had met a lot of people who were creative or people who I thought or had hoped could potentially be partners for me. And for whatever reason, it just no one was really the right fit. And when I met Lydia, I was like, oh, my God, you were like, we're speaking the same language. You know when you meet someone and you just kind of click immediately?

What celebrity clients did you have independently before and who did you have? And then who have you guys brought in as like a duo? So it's actually been amazing because since we became a duo, we haven't done any outreach. Like it's all been in bounds and word of mouth, which is so, like we're so fortunate. I was working with a couple creators in New York and I think, you know Serena Carragut. So well. Shout out Serena Carraggan. Yeah, we love you, Serena.

She was my first. Yeah, I'll send it to her. She was my first ever client that I worked with. We got connected during COVID, and she was kind of blowing up. And she was like, I just need, you know, like a creative thought partner. And I was like, yeah, so fun. And then I was working with Megan Rup out in L.A. And Miranda Kerr, who was also in L.A.

So I was coming back and forth, like, every other week. And I was just so exhausted. And when I heard that Lydia was doing what I was doing in L.A., I was like, oh, my gosh, this could be amazing. And you were, you know, doing it with your gals. Yeah. So I had been at Dear Media for five years. I started working with Michael when I was a sophomore in college.

Yeah, when Dear Media had three shows, one of which was Skinny Comedential, him and her podcast. I ended up building out the entire content team. I went from running the Instagram, the TikTok, you know, being in the DMs and the weeds to then really overseeing more of that macro digital strategy. And then I always tell people I really just at the core of it. love making pretty things. And Dear Media was more becoming this big media company. And I was doing less, I think, with like my hands and more of the creating within, right, like fashion. All I wanted to do was just be on set every day. That was like my dream. So. You got it.

Yeah, literally. So at the, I don't even, I don't remember the timeline. But I think over the summer, I had made the decision that I was ready to kind of take the leap. I reached out to a handful of creative, you know, people in my network. And I said, listen, I don't know what it is I want to do, but I know I want to be creative. I know I want to be on set. I love fashion, you know, that world. And a friend got back to me and he was like, listen, Sophia Richie Grange obviously is blowing up. She has a ton of brand deals coming in. They're looking for someone to similar be like a creative thought partner. She was blowing up and it was, there were all these opportunities now. And it was like, okay, how this is something that a lot of our clients will say,

they're getting so many inbounds from brands or people that want to work with them. Right. Cool projects. And they're working on all these things. And it's like, okay, great, let's user social to promote all of those things. But then how do we also keep, like, the authenticity at the core and, like, make sure that they're not, like, selling things all the time. Sof obviously killed it at wedding content and the organic.

But then when it came time for the branded, it was like, okay, let's bring on somebody. And at that point, I was like, oh, my God, yes. Immediately yes, of course. Yeah. And then immediately, once we started working together. I was like, oh, this is not only really fulfilling and exciting, but there's so many other creators, celebrities, influencers that I see needing this same type of support. How would you guys summarize, I guess, like what you guys do for a talent or a creator,

like at a very high level? Everything? I know. No, no, no. I mean, we'll do. That's one of the things that Lydia and I always say. Like, no job is too small. Like, you know, if it's like Uber eats water because we're on set and like someone needs something, like we're, we're happy to help wherever we can.

Always, usually we're focusing on social strategy, content creation, and execution. And so we'll shoot, we'll edit, we'll post. We're working very closely with the talents managers, their publicists, like essentially everything that's going on in their lives. So we have a pulse on, okay, if, you know, if we're promoting something this week or this project's coming out here, like, how can we make sure that we have. these organic moments in between. And I think what we found especially with traditional celebrity talent, whether they're an actor, a singer, a model is they're not social media stars. Like, they're not TikTokers. So when they have these opportunities, like, they don't, they're not sitting on their phones. They don't know what's trending. They don't know necessarily, like,

if their name is trending. Like they're, like, because that's not. Their actresses first or their singers first. Right. Yeah. You know. The one of the things that I love about this podcast is I get to learn from people that I'm like genuinely, I would love to do like an hour consulting call with you guys. I'm like, what do I do? Because I often still, I am like a digitally first creator, right? But I also have a foot in investing. And like my job is not just to create content.

And I feel that pain that you guys are experiencing where it's like sometimes you get these amazing opportunities like working with Spotify and Shopify are like my dream deals. But then it's like at a certain point, if you're doing investing or you're doing something else, your content just starts to look like it's all branded. And you're like, oh, I need that organicness. You're doing two jobs. You're doing two jobs. People, I think, and I always say this, sorry to cut you off,

but I do think it's important to note, social media three years ago is not what it is today, right? Like, you yourself are thinking, okay, what's the real I'm posting today? What's the TikTok I'm posting today? Maybe there's two TikToks I'm posting day. What are my stories throughout the day? What's on YouTube shorts? Like, am I dabbling with Snapchat?

There's so much content. Do I need to toggle the paid partnership label? Like, what are the hashtags? You guys do all of that. Yes. So we always say we're, we're not one size fits all because that just everybody is so different and it's so personal. So some people need a lot of support and they want us actually like supporting with the posting

or the editing or, you know, shooting. And then we have other clients where, you know, they're more digitally native. And so we always say like, you know, they're showing up a day to day like on stories. Like we're obviously not them. And then they'll kind of check in with us and pulse us on, you know, a new launch, a brand deal, like a rollout strategy. they'll say, hey, I'm traveling here. Like, can you send me some, like, trend ideas?

So it really depends on the person and how integrated they want us in their social media presence. Right. At its core, it's like being a social media manager or strategist or content creator for a brand, but for individual. Yeah. And I think that's what's so hard about it, though, because we have tried, at least in my business, like, so many different ways to, like, have people help me with content.

And it hasn't worked because I'm like, one, I don't know if it's because we do a lot of, like, finance investing in business content. So I'm like, you have to have a level of expertise there where it's like it's harder in ways. But I think what's so challenging is like it is an input from a person versus the input of a brand. Right. And like when you have talent, it's like they are posting organically themselves. I would assume like how often, let's say in a week is it like you guys versus your clients? Well, it totally depends. Because if they're a creator, they're posting usually every day. Yeah. And so they might be in their account posting every day. And then like we, just pop in for a branded post or something like that. We have some clients where we might be logged

into their TikTok but not their Instagram. And then with the more traditional like celebrity talent, they don't have to show up every day. So like when they're posting. Why is that? Well, because it's not their, it's not their core business. Part of the celebrity aspect, like part of the goal when we approach celebrity social to is relevancy. So they don't necessarily, you know, people know who Kate Hudson is. Kate Hudson is. We don't necessarily, she doesn't need to be showing up everyday reminding people who she is and what she's doing. People know that from her movies or other maybe media outlets. But we always say too, like this is essentially the new kind of PR in a sense. You know, like for something like a press tour where like we're going from Good Morning America to

the Today Show to Fallon to whatever it is. Like we love to be around and filming stuff behind the scenes because also too like we'll plan but there are so many fun candid moments like where everyone's just being themselves and you're like, oh this like this like this is. what people want to see because you see them play a character on the screen or you see them on the cover of a magazine. Chloe's going to Cannes in one, two weeks. Oh my God, I don't know. I haven't put my rights. We're going to be at the Met. We're going, I go to Paris Fashion Week twice a year. I go to New York Fashion Week. So when we can be there, absolutely, we'll help with the execution. And then sometimes like it could be an assistant. It could be, they might feel comfortable filming it

themselves. This is such an interesting thing because I feel like briefing people in is part of the magic and it's you guys that are coming up with stuff. There are a lot of agency owners that are listening to this that the hardest thing about running an agency is you guys are the special sauce. Like you guys are the ones that like saw this from the beginning, have the vision. But in order to grow it and service the clients to the level that you want, you do need to start bringing in people that have the same vision or have a different skill set. So are you two guys currently employing anybody else that's executing for you? And then how do you think about scalability when clients want Chloe and Lydia? They don't necessarily yet want the people that are underneath

you guys. That's been from day one, like our biggest. I wouldn't say an issue. It's a great problem to have. Yeah, totally. But we are thinking about it. And I think what's difficult is it is a new area in the industry. Right. Like we don't have like really mentors that we're looking to. I feel the same way, by the way. Yeah. And I'm like, I wish someone could just tell us what to do. Right. So the talent pool is a little bit smaller by nature because traditionally there hasn't really been somebody, right? Like, somebody, a client of ours maybe would go to their assistant. Like social media traditionally has been passed to the intern or the assistant. The brands and the people that actually hire somebody like us or brand strategists are the ones that are succeeding. Yeah. I think we're breaking

out of that mold a little bit more. Do you mean by that like bringing on new clients that are more unknown and helping grow them? No more so like everyone's understanding that social, whether they like it or not, is something that they have to be a part of. Like I think for a long time, it was like, I don't want to do this or TikTok's that dancing app. And it takes a specific like skill set level. It's not just something that, you know, you can you can hand to someone to like try and figure out. Like it's truly a skill set and expertise now. Again, five years ago, I don't think that was the case. Yes. It's totally changed. And then, you know, if a client isn't handing it off to their assistant, then they're asking their manager and then their PR, hey, like, what am I supposed to

do here? You know, and the managers aren't, that's not really their job. PR's not, that's not really their job. Assistance, they have so many other things to be focused on. Totally. But everyone, everyone does have a phone, which is helpful. Totally. Yeah. But I would say, you know, we have a few part-time employees in New York, in L.A. We've tried to hand off, I would say, most of, like, the back end. So things like invoicing, like, contracts. What about, like, like, analytics reporting like are you sitting down with clients and being like this video is trending this is what's working for us like let's now do the strategy like what does that look like using data some of them want that um in like a monthly recap deck some of them are logged into

their council like they're seeing it firsthand like it's pretty clear to like we'll we'll send them a note like hey like this video is blowing up or like this one viral or we're chronically online yeah like we're checking analytics every day yes like we are seeing in real time we're checking the video 10 times a day. To see what people are talking about. And exactly. What they're commenting and how it's performing. And, you know, if it's maybe not so great, okay, why?

And how can we pivot? And we're constantly taking that into account as we strategize and create content. So it's kind of like we're looking at the data. In real time. Okay. Can we do a fun exercise? Okay. So not to put you guys on the spot, but I would love to hear because let me just say this first.

In four and a half months, your stats for your clients, is over 1,000% growth on views, over 2,000% growth on likes, 1,900% growth on comments, 2,000% growth on shares, and 1,164% growth on followers. You guys have done that for some of the biggest creators in the world. So I'm hoping that we can do a really fun little exercise with my social media. Okay? I know you watch my content.

So I have a very different kind of POV perspective on TikTok than I do on Instagram. And I think a lot of the time that comes from like I had a 10 year career working in startups. I have a certain persona. I would say on my Instagram. And then my TikTok is more like fast and loose and like in the moment, whatever. So I don't know how much time you spent in my social media, hopefully a little. What would you say is like the one thing I could keep doing and the one thing that I could maybe improve to see results like this?

Or is it not that simple? Can I do the one thing that I think you could improve? Yeah. And it's not necessarily specific. Okay. It's not necessarily specific to you. I actually think this is a lot of people is historically Instagram has been so buttoned up and so aesthetic.

And, you know, again, it's like your friends are following your family. TikTok, I think people have always been more comfortable kind of posting whatever they want, like this unfiltered behind the scenes. Like, you know, you're sitting in your sweatpants and you're talking to the camera. And I think what we're seeing now is people want that type of content on Instagram and creators are hesitant to share it because it feels, I think, more vulnerable. and also like just historically, that's not how we could use the platform. So I think less so separating the two platforms, that being said, I would say when it comes to

trends, like it'll hit TikTok way before it hits Instagram. And so if you prop it over too soon, it's going to go right over people's heads. Yeah. So being thoughtful about that, but I think some of the unfiltered content that maybe you're just keeping on TikTok would actually perform really well on Instagram. And I think, you know, with the ability now to hide things from your grid or change the cover photo. Like, you can still have the aesthetic feed and vibe, but giving people like that more organic feel of content because I think that's really what people are looking for these days.

Right. Yeah. You're thinking about it the right way, though. I do think there is a differentiation between what TikTok content feels and is and looks like and what maybe Instagram is. Chloe's right and that it's, we're starting to see more of a crossover. When we think about our clients, there are some things where we say, okay, this should just live on TikTok. Really? Yeah. like the Instagram audience is not going to get this. Because that's what I've heard so much is that the Instagram audience is looking for that like curation, more aspirational. And then it's like TikTok.

They're looking for more that relatability. But it's interesting because my TikTok grows at like a pretty steady rate. I would say just for how much I focus on it. And my Instagram, I'm like because I don't post that much and because it is so much more of that like curated. And I even see this from my engagement. I'll be really honest. Like in my stories when I don't post, let's say for like three days, I will get with

30,000 followers, like 7,000, 8,000 views a story when I haven't posted in a few days. When I'm consistently posting, I actually notice my engagement drops down significantly on my stories. Why is that? I actually was just having this conversation with a client yesterday. And I meta, like, let us know because it's almost incentivizing you not to use the platform. Right. Like this idea that you're supposed to wait 24 hours for your stories to run out before you post

again, I don't know why the algorithm is rewarding that because I'm like, in theory, you would think that people would post less. if they're not going to get the same number of views. So sometimes there are things where Lydia and I are like, we don't know why this is the case. We know that it is the case. So if your goal is to like engage every day with your audience, keep posting.

If your goal is to reach a larger number of people less frequently than do that. But it's so interesting too because like with brands, right, they look at my numbers and they're like, holy shit. Like you're getting 7,000 views a story and you have 30,000 followers. That's amazing. Like we know you have the engagement. We don't really care about your audience.

But then when you post it. the brand story. You're like, oh, I don't know why it's not. I know. It's so interesting. And on the brand note, too, I do think brands, we just had this conversation too, are trying to figure it out as well. Like, they're like, why is this? Yeah. And they also don't, you know, like they're focused on a brand view and maybe not necessarily, like we see the craziest caption suggestions sometimes. From brands. Yes. Brands, yeah. The brands that are the most successful with working with talent are the ones who say, like, you know what works best with your audience. We want this to feel as organic as possible.

Like, we defer to you. And then the brands who come in and say, you have to show the product within the first three seconds. We need hashtag ad in the left-hand side of the screen. You know, we need to make sure that we have the paid partner. Like all the things. Obviously, I understand there are things that you have to do legally to disclose that something's an ad. But I think when the brand lets the talent really do what they're, doing best. Like if if you just wanted someone to show the product in the first three seconds,

like hire an actor. Yeah. Right. You're model. Like you don't, you're leveraging the influencer because of their influence in their audience and their community. So let them talk to their community the way that they are accustomed to. I'll also say trial reels. We've been using a lot really recently. They essentially, so when you go to post a reel, there's a little toggle at the bottom and you can toggle it on and it says trial reel. It does not get posted to your profile, but it gets shown to your non-followers. Your non-followers. So it's a good way to, there's two strategies we use with it.

One, we use it to repurpose content that's done really well. So we'll pull the top five performing posts from a client. For the last like five years. Yes. As long as it still feels relevant. Relevant. Yeah. Or evergreen.

Yeah. And then post that. And then we see, I think one of her, did somebody get 30,000, followers? Maybe. Yeah, maybe. I mean, there's like, there's a lot of growth in trial reels. And I think it's because, like, sometimes, like, you don't even know that you're not following somebody and then you get served everything and you're like, oh, I should follow her. Totally. Discoverability goes through the roof. So, like, what you just read, some of those numbers, trial reels have really helped. And I think Instagram's catching on too a little bit. Like, I've seen so much sentiment on TikTok of people saying,

like, is Instagram cringy now? Like, are we embarrassed of Instagram? And I think, Trial Reels is a good way to kind of also test a piece of content and see, okay, is this cringy? Do people like it? Oh, people like it. Now I'll post it to my actual profile and let my friends see it too. Or you could just leave it in trial reels forever. I do think something that I was talking to a client about who was using trial reels is we saw a big uptick and growth. And we're like, okay, this is awesome.

We have all these new followers. Are they the right followers? Right. How do you determine that? And so that's, we don't know yet. And I'm curious, again, I'm like, meta, I have some questions. But is it, are these people who are going to purchase your product? Are these people who are going to engage with your post?

Because you don't want ghost followers. Like those are, they're, they're worthless to a brand. They're not going to, they're not going to go see your movies. They're not going to buy what you're selling. They're not going to comment. And they hurt your engagement. Right. Like to see a million followers, but, you know, not a lot of it likes.

Right. It's like, well, wait a second. We would rather those people, like I would rather see a really healthy account at 300,000 followers with ride or die followers than 1.5 million. For sure. Yeah. Are there some like fast rules that you guys apply to every single new talent that comes into your Rolodex?

Are you like you have to be doing these things where we can't work with you? The only thing I think that we don't have rules. But the only thing we do have a rule with new talent we bring on. We just, we want them to be nice people. Oh yeah. How do you validate that? You don't know when you start. Yeah.

Have you ever fired a client? Yes. good for you. I love that. Because again, it's very personal where we're talking to them every day. We're in their homes or with their family. Like if it's not a good fit and whether they're not respectful to us or the team or of our time or whatever it may be, it's not worth it. Like, why would you work for yourself if you have to be unhappy with the people that you're working with? Which I think it's also important that on that note we bring up our basically like pricing model. Yeah, I wanted to ask about that is a lot every time we tell somebody their eyes are like oh i haven't heard of this before we do

hourly for a lot of different reasons um do the minimum amount of hours they have to hit yeah now now we do because it was tough when we had like some people coming in for like they were like oh i need maybe two hours this month like it was hard for us for planning and just knowing like we can't make a real impact if we're if we're not really in the weeds with you right and so i think there's a few reasons by hourly works really well for us. First, we found in the beginning, by the way, also I think it's helpful for context. We launched this in July of last year. So we're not, we're almost a year in. Okay. Congratulations. Thank you. So we noticed in the beginning, and I think this is what I was seeing earlier about, there's still some educating when it comes to social. I think a lot of people think

it's something you can hand off to the intern. It doesn't take that long. You just throw up a story, like whatever. And some of our, you know, clients who maybe didn't have a full grasp of that would say, okay, hey, I only need you for 10 hours. That's it. And we'd say, great, here's a retainer based on that scope. A hundred hours later, we're like, okay, maybe we... A hundred hours in one month? Yes. That has happened. We're like, okay, maybe... And do they get sticker shock? And they're like, this is how much... Well, so I think we both did a lot of free work when we first started. As you do. Again, uncharted territory. Yeah. Yeah. I think we were just figuring out we, I mean, even pricing, I remember when I first started, I was like, what is my hourly rate? Like, I have no idea.

I knew what I was making a corporate salary at Viacom. So I was like, okay, that divided by. Like, and it was just a guess. And it was like, what will people accept? And then as you build this expertise and you have more people coming in, then you're like, okay, I guess I have to raise the rates now because you have to weed people out. And I think, you know, when we said, oh, a retainer would be X, like that would be more so sticker shock. Then, hey, here's our hourly model.

You can set a cap. If you're like, I don't, you know, I want to make sure that we are at, you know, 30 hours. a month max and we're like great and we'll let you know each month like where we're at um sorry each week yeah if we get close to like we're just flagging we're at 25 now like because we don't want them to feel sticker shock at totally like and again it's education they might not know how long it takes to prep a branded instagram story set or edit going back and forth right like with the how long would one like some of the ones that you guys had in your um recap that was like the trends that you guys did like how long does something like some of those could take like 30 seconds okay but then you're

keeping track of all of that being like this was 30 seconds or you're like we did roughly like 20 of those a month and they took us like a minute each we're maniacal about tracking our time we track every like this this recording will go in our hours tracker I track I track my hours tracker we made it sorry it sounded so oh I was like tell me no we're actually moving over to harvest okay don't know that is what's harvest like an hourly tracker system we I haven't put my hours in harvest yet but we when we first started we made like an Excel spreadsheet okay Excel spreadsheet and it had like April hours and it was a drop down with like which client internal and then what you were doing and then date and the amount of time you spent doing it.

And then my boyfriend would help us basically like analyze that at the end of the month and be like, hey, this client's paying you X, but you're basically working for free because you're putting in so much time there or, you know. And this is before you guys were hourly. Kind of. Yeah. We had some clients that were retainer and we were trying to move over to an hourly model. And again, like it's we have months where clients are so busy.

Like they might have a new. project coming out. And then we have months where like summer. Well, we always say this. It's like our famous last words. We're like, oh, it'll be quiet. Yeah. It's never quiet. Yeah. But I think that's also the time where you can do so much organic content and actually build a fan base. Yeah. Clients like that as well, the idea that like we're going to ebb and flow with you and with your life. Like we've had clients who got pregnant and they go on like a pseudo maternity leave. And we're like, great. Like we'll, you know, check back in when you're out of that. And so I think that's really helpful. And then also we don't have any upfront commitments. So there's no you sign

And with us and it's, you know, a three-month minimum, we're like, this is a relationship that we're entering into. And we wanted to feel good for all parties. And at any point, you could say, like, this isn't for me anymore. But we've had on our end, all of our clients have stayed with us. We've had some for years now. Wow. And at the end of the day, it's like, we don't want to work with somebody who doesn't want

to work with us. Yeah. And we don't want to work with somebody who we don't want to work with, you know what I mean? Yeah. It gives everybody the power to be like, oh, this isn't working. Right. Which is why then it's able to, like, you know, you could say, client like, hey, this isn't necessarily the right fit.

Okay. Yeah. I also started an agency model first because it's like low cash input that you actually have to put into your business. We had like no overhead cost. No overhead cost. What was your guys's mentality towards money and towards entrepreneurship before you actually jumped in and know what you know now? Oh, for me, my relationship with freelance, I feel like was a little different because in college I went to school in Nebraska and I had no idea what I wanted to do. I decided I wanted to major in fashion merchandising. And then very quickly I was like, hmm, you're going to have to work a lot. lot harder than people in LA and New York if you're in Nebraska. And so I was like, great, I'm just going to DM people on Instagram and I'm going to freelance. And I'm going to, so I

basically made an LLC when I was in college and I had started, you know, working with Michael and Lauren when I was, like I said, a sophomore. As a client of yours. Yes. Okay. I had so many different kind of like random clients just from. You go back into Lydia's like Instagram archives, the like flat lays that this girl was taking for fun. No, she like walks into my house and the minute, immediately, like getting matches down and like taking flat lays and like, okay girl. I like making pretty things. Like if I see something pretty, I just, I don't know. It's like an instinct. Which by the way, as like a side note, that's why I love TikTok? Because people are like, why do you do it? And I'm like, it actually helps me romanticize my life because I actually fell into what I'm doing now, working with celebrities,

starting to invest their money. And I was like, oh, I love this. Sometimes it's like not as fun as you would think it is. And I was like, TikTok is a way for me to romanticize and make pretty things out of what could be a mundane life or a day. So side note, I totally respect that. Yeah. So I had always known that freelancing was an option. I had always like had a good relationship with it. There was no mystery of what freelance was. Even when I was at Dear Media, that was my day job. And then I still was doing photography and graphic design on the side for other freelance clients. And so it was never something that really scared me. I wanted to do something on my own, but not until I was much older. Yeah. I think I really still wanted, my goal after leaving Dear Media was to go to another agency or somewhere else that was,

again, less media focused and more fashion beauty lifestyle, where I still could like learn underneath a mentor. Yeah. That was a big requirement was, was I wanted a mentor. And then I met Chloe, who was two years older than me and, you know, had done this for two years longer than me. And now she's kind of my mentor in a way. By the way, I'm like, I learn from Lydia every day. Yeah. I also never, like, I was the complete opposite. I thought I was going to work at corporate nine to five. my whole life. I graduated. I had a job at NBC, like literally making $40,000 a year. And I, you know, I was passionate about being creative, but like I just, to me, I didn't necessarily, I don't know, I didn't, I had no desire to do something on my own. Yeah. And then I was at Viacom, but I was always

kind of like a cog in a big machine. And I remember working with Serena during COVID when I was furloughed. And she was like, you know, there are so many people like me that need this type of support, like, that want creative partners. Like, there's so many platforms now and all these brand deals and there's like, all these trends. And there's no way that one person could keep up. And I was like, yeah, that sounds amazing. I'm going to go find an agency that does that for people.

Like, I never wanted to work on my own. I just couldn't find an agency at the time. Now I think we're starting to see like a few more agencies like hours pop up. But, you know, in 2022, like it just really didn't exist yet. And so like begrudgingly, I was like, I guess I'll do it by myself. Yeah. But that was not the plan. And I kind of said to myself, I was like, listen, if it doesn't work out in six months, like there will always be a marketing role in corporate America for me. Yeah. And the money aspect too, I think my kind of in my head, I was like, okay, I will go on my own. Because at the time, again, I had freelance clients already. So I did the math and I'm like, okay, I need one more client in order to make the same salary I am at Dear Media. So that was kind of my rule. I was like, you can't go on your own unless you're making the same amount of money. And then at that point, it, again, when it, once I got connected with SOF, it was like, okay, now I have the time to get that one more client, essentially.

It definitely, I think in the beginning was scary for sure, thinking about the money. It's still sometimes scary. I mean, for you guys, I'm so interested to hear because I think it sounds like it's been a rocket ship since you started. It's like no clients you've had to pitch. It's all been inbound. It's referral only. But I still think that there's moments when you're an entrepreneur where it's like,

there's moments of doubt or there's moments where you're like firing your first client or you're getting fired. Have you guys been fired by a client yet? No. No. We have like, I like mutually parted ways. Okay. Maybe for different reasons.

Like really never about work. It's a lot of times like external factors. Have you had those moments though as an entrepreneur where you're just like, this is really fucking hard and I don't know if it's going to happen? Every day. Okay. But wait, but hold on. Yes.

But do you, like I've never since partnering with Lydia. I've never. Not to the point where I'm going to give up. But I've never even, it's never even crossed my mind. Like the idea of like, is this going to work? like, oh, we know that it's working. It's more like it's exhausting and like I'm thinking like, okay, like when does it chill out?

When does it like slow down a bit? It's more overwhelming. I think than it is like scary. Scary. Well, and also because you guys talk about traveling all the time. I'm going through the shift right now. By the way, where it was like me, the solo show, just like I could just prioritize my career priorities myself.

And I've talked about this on previous podcast episodes where then all of a sudden you're like, wait, I have somebody who's like just as important as I am, if not more. we're building a family, we're building a partnership, and you do have to sacrifice a lot for your personal life. How do you guys balance being on a rocket ship and also dedicating the time to nurturing your personal life? Well, I feel like, I'm going to give a good example. So Lydia has a boyfriend.

I don't have a boyfriend right now, and I have the most amazing supportive friends and family back in New York where they're so happy for me. Like if I can't make it to something because I'm in L.A. or I'm here, they're like, yes, Chloe, like, We're so proud of you. I also feel like they're my friends and family. They are.

They love it. That's how supportive they are. So, yeah, even my parents. Like, my parents know Lydia. Lydia's met my brother. Like, she's met everybody. But they're so supportive and amazing. And, you know, again, like FaceTime.

Like, it's just like that's so easy. But I think when it comes to the romantic relationships, like especially with you, with her boyfriend's 30th birthday is coming up. Yeah. And it was over Memorial Day. And we had a big, you know, client moment where we had to be a Napa. And Lydia was like, oh, I. I have Jack's 30th birthday

and I was like, okay, like I'll fly to Napa from New York. Like, in theory, normally that would be something that Lydia being in L.A. would go to. But it's like, wait, that's so important. You do that and I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to Napa and face versa. Like, my family took a vacation and I was like, I really want to be present. And Lydia was like, turn off your

phone, like, I have got it covered these next four days. And like, that I think has been such a blessing and so different than when you're doing it on your own. It's what I'm saying, like I could not do this on my own. Like, I could, but I'd be less successful or I'd be so much more stressed because I wouldn't be spending time with Jack and I'd be missing his 30th birthday or having to make sacrifices more. That's why I, when my sister and I, when I brought her into my business, even though it had been around for a year, I gave her 50%

of my business because I was like, I want an equal 50-50 partnership where it doesn't feel like one of us has more or we're sacrificing and it's not fair and it's like tip for tat. Do you guys own your business 50-50? Yes. Okay. And you guys have like an LLC now together. So you you like readed everything and now you guys are just on this together forever. We're married. Okay. We actually don't know. You'd have to ask our accountant.

Like I don't know how. Okay. My gosh. Yeah. That was more stressful than the money part. You guys ever disagree around like, okay, so let's say who's your dream client to work with? Doolipa.

Okay. Let's say doolipa comes in and she's like, hey girls, like I actually have somebody in house that does this for me, but I like what you're doing. But I'm only going to pay you guys like $25 an hour. would you take that client? We have these conversations essentially. Like we have to both be excited. We've done this before.

We've taken on a client at a lower rate. And we kind of are like, okay, watch. Because they don't see our value in the beginning. And I think this goes back to the education piece of give the intern the social media. It's not that important. Like maybe their team had encouraged them

to hire somebody like us. Yeah. And they weren't necessarily that excited about it. So Chloe and I are like, great. We will, you know, we'll start at this lower rate, we'll reevaluate in three months. And if you're not happy with what we're doing, if you're not excited about with what we're doing, then like, fine, then we'll reevaluate. But we kind of know at this point, like, what we do is really great work. And we see results.

And you haven't earned the right to do that. I think, though, that every single agency owner or entrepreneur or entrepreneur that's listening to this, like, when you're starting out, you do things for free. And that's normal. And then you earn the right to be able to charge what you want, to have the dedication to the clients that actually want you, see your value and will move you for it also in their life. But I think that's hard for agency owners because they're like, when is that balance of like, as an example, like I have this amazing hairdresser who's probably the most in-demand hairdresser at 901. I started seeing her when she was an assistant on the floor, cutting my hair at 9 o'clock at night to literally practice. And now it's like her rate to cut somebody's new

hair. It's like you one can't get an appointment and two, like I couldn't even afford her rate. she still charges me, like, what her original rate was. And I think a lot of the time people are scared to say that because they're like, what if a new client comes in and like hears that, whatever? And it's like, but they believed in you when you weren't who you are now, you know? And we honor that with like the people that we were working with when that's why I said, it really does range because there were people that we were working with when we had no experience. Like we had an idea.

We had a concept. Like, we thought it could work. And like they took a chance on us and we're so grateful. And even if, you know, they have a smaller following or. smaller audience than some of the clients that we're bringing on now. It's like we'll always forever be, I think, indebted to those first people that like really believed in us. Yeah. And that's just part of a business. Totally. 100%. To go back on the 50-50 of it all too, I think like Chloe said, we're in a relationship. And I think part of that to, like we constantly, I mean, I talk to you

literally every second of every single day, but we've started doing Darlington therapy on Fridays. So, where it's literally just like, I want to know what's happening in your personal life. Like, it's not just business, you know. Is there an actual therapist in the room? No, no, it's just us talking on a phone. Oh, okay. And I, we haven't done this part yet, but I was like, we should get outside and walk on the phone and talk just to like make sure we're moving our body.

Like we're constantly like in, like trying to be in sync with each other. Yeah. And I think that helps the business move. I don't think we've ever disagreed on something. That's what I was trying to get out, which is rare. No, no, it's so, by the way, when I said to Lydia, do you want a partner and she was like, yeah, like we were strangers. Like I could have gone.

And I will say when we partnered, when we first partnered, we didn't have an LLC, a combined bank account, all these things. Like it was. It took a time. Yeah, it was you're going to have your clients and I'm going to have my clients. And then like someone knew we could bring on together and like let's see how this goes. Like we dated for a little bit. Yeah. There was some flirting.

Okay, good. We're going to do some rapid fire, which is going to be fun. Okay. Okay. Okay. Coffee, match or cocktails for the rest of your life. You can only pick one. Coffee.

Coffee. Every day, twice a day. I don't drink any of those things. Crazy. Oh, my God, I love you. What's your drink of choice? Well, it depends. Like, are we at breakfast or are we out?

What's the one drink you're drinking for the rest of your life? Probably like a minty. Okay, Chloe. Who is your favorite comfort creator that you watch to, like, decompress your brain and just, like, you love watching? Ooh. So it can't be a client. It can be a client.

Well, so I have, and I have one, because it's an anecdote, but Cameron Rogers. I don't even know how that is. She started, like, in the food space, and now she's more money. motherhood, but I, like, we've become very close friends, but I find her so comforting to the point where I hate flying. And when I'm taking off, I'll, like, put on her podcast. And just because I what's her podcast called? Um, it's called conversations with Cam. Dear media. It's a dear media podcast. But I'll text her. I'm like, I am listening to you right now because like I just, I feel like calm in her presence. Wow. Lydia, favorite comfort creator.

I almost, I know. That's what I'm saying. My relationship with social media has been so, like, over the past year, I really only go on it these days for work. Otherwise, if I'm doing work and play, it gets a little too much. Okay. But, but. Yeah, I mean, the first person that came to mind is Wishbone Kitchen. Okay. A lot of her stuff feels organic. I'm not a good chef at all. And it is really therapeutic, like, seeing her days, her voice is, like, fun. Yeah. She seems, I love, like, rooting for the underdog and, like, I love her story. So I feel like she's comforting in that sense. Okay, I love that. Yeah, she's a great one. Yeah. She's great. That's what I'm saying. Like, she went from, she was like she was a private chef and now she's in the hampsons yeah i know okay new york or l a

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Okay. Okay. In this phase of my life, L.A. I could see myself settling down in L.A. And I would love to do a year or two in New York. But have kids in New York? No. Okay.

I don't want kids in L.A. or New York, I don't think. I think the dream situation is to be like two hours outside of a big city. Okay. Maybe like a Newport Beach, Laguna Beach vibe. Love it. California is so expensive. Yeah, it's crazy. But every time I go to New York and visit Chloe, I like cry.

I'm like the energy here. Yeah, Lydia romanticizes everything about New York. The garbage on the streets. No, I'm like, it's raining. I'm like, girl, get a grip. That's amazing. Okay, who is your favorite creator to watch or who should we be watching that you think is about to blow up? Oh.

Oh my gosh. Not going prepared for this. I know. Hold on. I'm thinking because I feel like I have a few. Like, I like to say that, like, I was following Jake Shane when he had, like, 30,000 followers. And I was like, this guy is so funny. And I remember texting my friend.

I think she was at DBA at the time. And I was like, you should totally sign this guy. And she was like, yeah, like, you know, we're trying. And then, like, literally two weeks later, he was with UTA. Like, he had a million followers. Like, it was just like, it happened actually overnight. But I'm like, I'd like to think that I was riding that way first. Okay.

Right now, I love following. Do you know Kelly Grace May? She from New York. She lives in New York. Does she have ADHD? Yes. Yes. I know her.

Yes. I think like she gives me like old school tinks vibes. Okay. It's like just like this very relatable, authentic girl in her 20 is like navigating life. Okay. I love it. Podcast or vlog? Vlog only because I was around podcasts for so long.

Okay. I'm like even though we're on one. I'm very selective in the podcast that I do now. Okay. And I think vlog's fun to just. That's my TV. Okay. I'll put it on in the back.

Is this like what we would watch? Yeah. Personally. A podcast. Fave time to post on social media. For ourselves or for our clients? What's the first thing to mind? 8 a.m. or 9 a.m. PST.

Okay. Oh, I was going to say like a 7 p.m. EST Sunday night. That too. Like post vacation. Okay. I love a Monday at 9 a.m. Fresh in the week. Yeah, Lydia will surprise you.

That's what you do with all the Coachella posts. Yeah, those were fire. Thank you. Okay. Okay, last question for both of you. Do you guys have a personal mission statement? I have actually on my phone. I don't know if I still have it, but I had one on my phone, my personal phone, that said lots of little right actions.

Love that. Yeah, and by the way, I think I took it from a podcast. I think the foster sisters were talking about it on their podcast. And I think probably when I first started, I wrote that down. And I'm going to like a janky way. I made it my screen background. Oh. I love that.

I don't know if this is, this quote pops into my head a lot is you can do anything you want, but you can't do everything. Love that. And I think that helps me move with more intention throughout my day and life. Okay, Chloe Sapper and Lydia Berry, thank you so much for coming on

doing your first podcast with me. Congratulations on everything that you guys have done. And I can't wait to follow along. Thank you. Bye you guys.